By Jennifer Hough
Monday, December 21, 2009: Irish Examiner
SURVIVORS of institutional abuse have met with a representative of the Bishop of Cork and Ross in relation to donations made to Right of Place.
The group, former and current members of the Cork-based charity met with a representative of Bishop John Buckley in recent weeks expressing concern over monies donated and how it was used.
In 2002, Irish bishops decided to contribute to a “three year” plan initiated by Noel Barry, founder of Right of Place.
A letter from the child protection office of the Irish Bishops Conference states that seven of eight bishops would be in a position to contribute funds.
According to the letter they were Bishop John Buckley of Cork and Ross, Bishop John Magee of Cloyne, Bishop William Murphy of Kerry, Bishop Eamonn Walsh of Ferns, Bishop Donal Murray of Limerick, Bishop James McLoughlin of Galway and Bishop Laurence Forristal of Ossory. The bishops agreed to give €3,000 or €4,000 each year for a three year period.
This agreement came at a time when Right of Place was receiving large Government grants. In that year alone it secured €171,925 from the then Southern Health Board and almost €150,000 from the Department of Education.
Correspondence also suggests funding went past the initial three year plan as in 2006, Mr Barry asked religious orders and the bishops for continued support “if at all possible over the next two years”.
Another letter in 2000, shows Bishop Buckley of Cork and Ross had made donations to Right of Place two years before the formal meeting with the Irish Bishop’s conference.
In that year, he forwarded a cheque for €4,000 to Mr Barry.
Tom Hayes of survivor group Alliance said his group has never received any money from the religious orders. He said Right of Place had received “huge amounts”.
Mr Hayes said his committee was totally accountable to members and operated as a victim support group, but that there seemed to be no accountability within Right of Place.
“It is an absolute disgrace and most regrettable that the Government have not looked into this,” he said.
Mr Hayes said he did not agree with the huge amount being given to one group as opposed to another.
“We never received any money from bishops or religious orders.
“It is extraordinary that they could support one group and not others.”
Patrick Walsh, of another victim group SOCA, said it had never received money from the religious.
“I would consider it a conflict of interest to be taking money off religious orders when we are representing victims of abuse,” he said.
A spokesman for the Bishop of Cork and Ross said any money donated would have been given in good faith.
Jerry, Johnny and Thomas, get in touch with Barry Clifford in Oughterard. Get talking to your contacts who were with you in the institutions and muster a group. Hold back on the formation (I’d say) as there are too many groups now and some are still scrabbling to get on the gravy train! Good for you on trying for us and it’s very disheartening to have doors slammed in your face. 2010 will mark the beginning of good times for us. WE can make it happen!
To all survivors in the West of Ireland and surrounding counties. I am a survivor from the west of Ireland and along with two other survivors we have been trying to open a centre in Galway city. We have managed to obtain a building in the city but unfortunately it needs money to do it up. We have tried the Galway Diocese for money to do it up ,no luck getting money of them. We have tried the board of education with no luck and we have tried the Irish lotto and a few more places and had the door slammed in our faces. We were at a meeting recently in Cork with “Right of place second chance” to see if they could help us but yet again the door was slammed in our faces. If we do eventually find someone that will help us with the centre, the centre will be open to all Abuse Victims, mainly where they can come to have a cup of tea and a chat, and if it is the case where a march is going to be organised we will be only too delighted to go. The last march that we were on there was about six survivors at that march from the west of Ireland,because being from the west of Ireland we are told nothing about what is going on. That is because we don’t have a meeting place in Galway and the right of place in Cork could not be bothered to pick up the phone and drop a line to the survivors in the west of Ireland. If there is anyone out there that can help us please let me know.The three survivors are Jerry Carey, Johnny Crawford and myself. Hoping to here from you.
Yes Paddy, I totally agree and I’m eagerly awaiting the next move.
I also want to wish everyone a happy Christmas and peaceful new year,
God bless you all
Anne and family..xx
Without sounding in any way flippant Anne, I agree with you that something has to be done to ensure that all survivor groups be thoroughly investigated as to how they use the substantial financial support they receive from the Irish Government – some groups are even receiving money from religious orders which, has to be one of the greatest conflicts of interest possible. If a march can be organised then let’s take that route. It’s time to speak up and to know exactly what is going on within these groups who’ve never received a mandate to represent anyone.
Paddy, I’ve left so many comments with regards to these “survivor groups” and I’ve said numerous times we must organise a march or something very soon! this is massive corruption against us by our very own people!??!…
I am now in regular contact with 12 other survivors who are all willing to come with me to Dublin as soon as this can be arranged?
I received your mail the other day Paddy and I totally understood what you meant, however, there is still a lot of us literally destitute. Where is our money what we have learnt, blood, sweat and tears going?
Barry, did you receive my mail?. Please will you forward your address again so I can forward these letters from Mary McAleese.
Take care everyone
Anne
Em…THE COMMISSION IS STILL OPERATING and acting deceptively!>>>
4th December, 2009
The Commission has been advised by the Catholic Institute for Deaf People that due to unforeseen difficulties, the proposed extract of the Commission’s Report, in Irish Sign Language, will not be completed until end-December or early-January of next year. Any further updates on this will be posted to our website but queries should be addressed to the Institute.
No, this is just “I’ll tell you lot what to do and you’ll do it” – a bit like the CB’s and Nuns of days gone by – well nearly gone by!.
Derek, I thought you of all people would know how to throw a decent party? These things cost money. I wonder was there beer and mince pies going?
There are many groups who appear to have mastered the knack of massaging the figures. I know of one group who measure it’s number of members by the amount of ‘clicks’ on it’s website. If I were to measure my members by this method, I’d need somewhere like a very large stadium to house them all for a meeting.
Betty, let the revolution begin and let’s oust these people who have one thing on their minds and that is “feathering their own nests”. Personally, I spitting feathers, maybe I should have plucked the turkey!!!
Hanora, I’m more than happy to get off my arse and do something positive, proactive and beneficial to those ‘survivors of abuse’ who it seems to me are been had by would be spokespersons and ‘leaders’. Let the revolution begin.
See Derek, that how to throw a Christmas party. I could drum up €50.00 at a stretch! Want to contribute and we’ll have a ball. Perhaps some of the organisations will show us how to really ‘trip the light fantastic”
Keep her between the ditches Derek!
Paddy
Is this another part of the divide and conqueror strategy?
Powerful piece of writhing Barry – as per usual. Astonishing news on Right of Place. Very hard to absorb that these kinds of ‘gang wars’ are still ongoing. It’s as if they never left the institutions.
I don’t know who’s in worst disarray: these so-called Rep. Groups or the bishops! They’re both clinging to each other for mutual benefit – and BENEFITS seem to abound for one particular group.
€5 flipping grand for ONE party! How did I miss that!
They’ll drag each other down and the danger is they’ll drag ordinary survivors down with them.
We need a National Co-ordinator for survivors Paddy, and you do have experience in co-ordinating in the disability field in Ireland ! … and take it from me Paddy us survivors are being ‘disabled’ now by the antics mentioned above, and others (Dept. of Education & Religious Orders) will use these antics as an excuse to, FOREVER, keep us outside – begging cap in hand!
Where Has All The Money Gone
Who is Noel Barry of Right Of Place in Co.Cork. His name did come up several weeks ago when I warned victims of institutional abuse through your site Paddy, that all was not well in the garden. This has not only proved prophetic but understated too.
Since 2002 that little place in Cork City run by that little man has been given 3,200,000 from the government for the benefit of survivors. Based on the average spending annually by Right Of Place, taking 2005 as a reference point, €227,553 was given, while €268,763 was listed as expenses not including the usual €5,000 for the annual Christmas Party. This left an average of 92 cents for each survivor of institutional abuse just in that year. Back though in 1999 the party had really begun. My earlier call to arms was for this very reason, The Enemy Within.
I do not write here to-day to condemn or condone the Catholic Church or even Right Of Place for these have been always been self evolving in the human condition called greed. The only difference being is that one has a lot longer history than the other and banks are somewhere in between. The common denominator that helped them all flourish is lack of transparency, accountability, and lies.
As times change the human condition remains the same as observed when Shakespeare said, “the world is full of lies and the liars that tell them”. How the end game will be for this organization called Right Of Place is really immaterial in the long- term in the goal that I cherish for victims. By itself the whole process has reduced us to beggars anyway and it seems they are trying to even steal the bowl. The only way forward now is a just and equal settlement for all against the un-just mealy -mouthed compensation we have received. There is no need for tribunals, Right Of Places, or indeed any places to represent you or me now or in the future for in little time we will be back to this same floor once again. We never elected them in the first place, only they did behind closed doors. This can only mean a mass march on Dublin Castle and the Catholic Church and I know you are wary and weary still but this is really about trusting yourself.This is what they all banking on now: Your tiredness, your poverty and poverty of spirit, and your broken dreams. This is when you fight the hardest when you have nothing to lose and they think they have taken all the rest.
While you are thinking I intend to expose this corruption from whatever quarter for there is no reference point for their integrity for they have none, but I do intend to show them what it means.
Post on Paddy, mail to Hanora or contact me. Unite and fight !
Keep the evidence coming and I thank all so far in coming forward. This is the spark that lights the flame that will turn this tide against corruption into a raging inferno. How head high and march.
Barry Clifford Email:bgclifford@iol.ie
Paddy,
There seems to be a lack of accountability in some of the organisations. I am amazed at the amounts being paid. Just to say €5,000.00 for a Christmas party.
If the government is funding this group then a government appointed auditor should do the books at the end of the year.
There should also be better committee standards to ensure the funds are being appropriated in the correct manner for the best uses. In this they should ensure that regular meetings and also minutes are kept to show transparency.
I do feel that there is a problem and this should be dealt with sooner rather than later.
Regards
Derek Power
The group who are questioning the shenanigans in Right of Place want to oust Barry and take over the Gaffe themselves. I know, I was at the meetings with these people (not to be recommended). Paddy knew I was visiting the vipers den as far back as the summer when we started asking questions. What we need to do now is put each group under the microscope and find out exactly what each has received and then we’ll tackle the problems. Why Tom Hayes is complaining beggars belief when he’s been a most abusive representative to other survivors (myself included) and their word is not to be trusted – believe me – I was there. They voted for the Trust Fund and it was defeated and they accepted that and a number of weeks later 4 of these …….. are in talks with the bishops over the est. of a Trust Fund. Now is the time to get them out! Why is it that only a few of us are proactive in this regard. Would you all get up off your arses and do something for yourselves or are you still at the mother’s tit?
ENOUGH IS ENOUGH
THIS NEEDS TO BE STOPPED AND STOPPED RIGHT NOW
sorry for shouting, but it’s a few days before Christmas and I for one had HAD IT, Paddy.
We need to stand up and stand up now. Don’t start 2010 with all this bullshit. I know for a fact that a woman was calling this Noel C Barry and never once did he return her call.
Also Paddy, was not the said Mr.Barry up in the Four Courts the other week? Do I smell a RAT here? Who are these Right of Place (SECOND CHANCE)
Second Chance at what, May I Ask?
Barry, if your figures are right then serious questions arise, more serious than I would have at first imagined.
That must have been one blast of a Christmas Party.
Where Has All The Money Gone
Who is Noel Barry of Right Of Place in Co.Cork. His name did come up several weeks ago when I warned victims of institutional abuse through your site, Paddy, that all was not well in the garden. This has not only proved prophetic but understated too.
Since 2002 that little place in Cork City run by that little man has been given 3,200,000 from the government for the benefit of survivors. Based on the average spending annually by Right Of Place, taking 2005 as a reference point, €2278,553 was given, while €268,763 was listed as expenses not including the usual €5,000 for the annual Christmas Party. This left an average of 92 cents for each survivor of institutional abuse just in that year. Back though in 1999 the part had really begun. My earlier call to arms on Paddy Doyle’s site was for this very reason, The Enemy Within.
I do not write here to-day to condemn or condone the Catholic Church or even Right Of Place for these have been always been self evolving in the human condition called greed. The only difference being is that one has a lot longer history than the other and the banks are somewhere in between. The common denominator that helped them all flourish is lack of transparency, accountability, and military type secrecy.
As times change the human condition remains the same as observed when Shakespeare said, “the world is full of lies and the liars that tell them”. How the end game will be for this organization called Right Of Place is really immaterial in the long- term in the goal that I cherish for victims. By itself the whole process has reduced us to beggars anyway and it seems they are trying to even steal the bowl.
The only way forward now is a just and equal settlement for all against the un-just mealy -mouthed compensation we have received. With no tribunals, Right Of Places or indeed any places to represent you or me, We never elected them in the first place, and only they did behind closed doors. This can only mean a mass march on Dublin and the Catholic Church and I know you are wary and weary now.
This is what they are banking on: Your tiredness, your poverty of spirit, and your broken dreams. This when you fight the hardest when you have nothing to lose and they think they have taken all the rest.
While you are thinking I intend to expose this corruption from whatever quarter for there is no reference point for their integrity for they have none, but I do intend to show them what it means.
Post on Paddy, call Hanora , or phone on me.
Barry:
email: bgclifford@iol.ie
Something does have to be done, the question is what to do and how to do it? Any suggestions from any quarter would be welcomed and posted on this site.
Paddy
Didn’t someone send you a comment sometime ago about the money right of Place was getting. I can’t find it on the site but I’m sure someone brought this up a few months ago. Positive he/she did
Anyway it’s no surprise to me after reading that comment ages ago.
Something needs to be done and DONE SOONER rather than LATER
Disgrace
There’s something being hidden. That’s my view on this. Someone is very afraid! Were these so call Donations really given in good faith or were the given as black mail? Was the “donation” given with the proviso that nobody will be named – this smacks to me of protection money. I also find it very strange that religious orders are now handing over money in what appears to be secrecy. It appears to me as though the very secrecy that various groups purporting to represent ‘victims of abuse’ are now engaging in the very secrecy that abusers thrived on for so long. This is disgraceful carry on.