The Collusion Between Church and State That Betrayed Thousands of Children in Ireland’s Industrial Schools Revised updated ‘e’ edition, Mavis Arnold and Heather Laskey.
FOREWORD by
Bruce Arnold
I was an onlooker to the events that gave birth to this book. I knew the authors when we were all students and married one of them. Our children grew up knowing one of the principal characters; we know much of her life story, and that of her children and grandchildren. All of them have been marked by the dire ineptitude of the supposed care and charity bestowed on her by the Order of the Poor Clares.
When the events covered in the early chapters of this book were revealed to us, bit by bit, their chilling message was deeply impregnated with a sense of isolation and secrecy. We knew what had happened to her and to other members of her family, and we knew the story of others whose childhood life she had shared. What we did not know was the extent to which the experiences of the young girls in St Joseph’s Orphanage in Cavan town represented a tiny part of a system that was spread throughout the length and breadth of the country. Thousands of children were incarcerated over many decades. They were given what were in effect long prison sentences by the courts under legislation that was severely interpreted and even more severely backed up by the Church, the social workers who were supposedly caring for young deprived and disadvantaged children. Those committed to the industrial school and orphanage system had one thing in common: the period of their confinement ended, usually, at age sixteen. Some had been in institutional care since they were infants.
This book researched into other aspects that also had a common character of a very unhappy and, from the State’s point of view, shameful
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Mavis Arnold and Heather Laskey
background. Almost universally throughout the industrial school system— which, at its most extensive, had several thousand boys and girls in what would now be called “care”—the administration of the children’s needs was seriously defective. They were always hungry, malnourished, and in some cases they literally starved. It has been said by the religious orders which managed these places that “times were hard”. This was emphasised in the context of times being hard generally in the country, through poverty, from the 1930s to the 1960s. It was not so. The State’s subvention, on a per capita basis, was adequate to feed, clothe, house, heat and give health care to the inmates. It also provided sufficient for educational and craft skills to be taught.
It was rarely done. There were exceptions, but they prove the rule that in reality the money disappeared. Startling tales are told by men and women who went through the system of the loaded tables of the religious, the disposal of waste to pig farms, while the children remained hungry. One of the worst examples has been published. This was the Baltimore School in Cork. It came directly under the Bishop of Ross, now dead, and it was examined in horrifying detail by Judge Mary Laffoy, head of the Commission to Investigate Child Abuse. Children who had serious eye defects so that they could not follow the limited teaching they got but never saw an optician. They did not possess toothbrushes. They were never seen by a dentist. They slept on foul bedding and contracted diseases from vermin. Their education, seriously inadequate, equipped them only for the most menial of jobs. And there is evidence that this led to further abuse and also to exploitation of a brutal and horrifying kind.
Revised edition of Children of the Poor Clares.
St Joseph’s was not the worst, not even among the worst. Yet the collected testimony indicates a regime that was profoundly ignorant of the needs of the girls, cruel towards them to the point of sadism, and dishonest in the presentation of their plight to the outside world.
People now say that everyone knew about it. Yet at the time no one spoke out. The iron hand of the Church kept the voices of witnesses silent. This was even so when St Joseph’s was plunged into the limelight by the tragic fire which is part of this book’s story. In it many girls died, clearly unnecessarily. The State and the administration of St Joseph’s, with the Church conniving, covered up the nature of the institution and the degree
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Children of the Poor Clares
of ignorance and lack of intelligent action that led to the deaths. The Report was a whitewash.
It took the indirect intervention of a European organisation, the O.E.C.D. (Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development) investigating Irish education with a view to assessing Ireland’s credentials for entry into the European Union, to wake the country up to what was going on. That organisation, spotting the anomaly in education levels in the industrial schools, blew a whistle to which the then Minister of Education, Donagh O’Malley, responded. As a result, through the Kennedy Committee which he set up, the dismantling of the whole system was mercifully started.
It took six years before the original 1985 edition of this book could find a publisher. In the following years, a changed climate of outspokenness in the country as a whole led to further revelations and to television documentaries that exercised a powerful impact on the public and on the politicians. It achieved far less with the Church.
Nevertheless, with his apology in 1999, the Taoiseach, Bertie Ahern, changed the tempo and direction of blame and anguish. He acknowledged “a collective failure to intervene, to detect their pain, to come to their rescue”. He made what he called a sincere and long overdue apology, and he set in motion legislative remedies.
I have never been happy with the apology and what followed. On investigation I was able to reveal, in a number of newspaper articles, what I call, rather guardedly, a hidden agenda. There was clear evidence of collaboration between Church and State. Collectively, the State, through the Department of Education, and C.O.R.I.—Conference of Religious of Ireland—acting on behalf of the orders, sought to create a self-protective structure. It included the agreement. The Government backed this with laws, procedures and investigations. The order was protected in exchange for their acceptance of the other processes which appeared to fulfil the terms of the apology by the Taoiseach.
The system of Redress was unfair and, again, secretive. Men and women seeking recompense were under legal restraint not to divulge the amounts given to them. There were heavy penalties for breaching these conditions.
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The alternative route to compensation—through the courts—was made peculiarly difficult. The terms under which the religious communities were persuaded to come forward protected them, in law, from criminal prosecution. This was an unusual exclusion in Irish tribunal law.
From the outset, the set of proposals that were offered—in that suspect phrase—to “bring closure”—have instead brought suspicion, distrust, dismay and disappointment to the victims. They still feel on the outside. They still feel that their circumstances—as diminished, marginal, second class people in Irish society—remain unchanged.
This applies to the girls of St Joseph’s as much as to the rest of them. And it is wrong.
When Children of the Poor Clares first appeared I was immensely proud of what my wife and our friend, Heather Laskey, had achieved. It had the simple appeal of what I saw as careful, objective truth. It was and is a poignant picture of a dark set of experiences that paint a terrible picture of a hidden Ireland, brutal, cruel and covert. This much-revised, updated and extended version enriches the story and adds greatly to our knowledge of what has happened since in an ongoing saga. But it still leaves the story unfinished. It will never be finished. The pain and damage to these men and women, many of whom have long since passed on, many of whom are still wrestling with the memories and the nightmares, are a shameful extract from living history. The State still has not dealt with them fairly. It has not drawn them in nor healed their suffering. And anyone who thinks otherwise has only to take up this book and read the truth.
Bruce Arnold, a political journalist with the ‘Irish Independent’’ is the author of 21 books including political biographies and novels. His book The Irish Gulag: How the State Betrayed its Innocent Children was published by Gill & Macmillan in 2009.
my mum was in the convent during the fire aged 2 is there any way of tracking her family as she came to wales to live and never knew she told us about what happened to her in there and it makes me sick .her name was mary patrica smyth.
dear oliver i just want to say how very sorry i am,only babies you all were,to hurt beat you with nails, these people were representing JESUS WHO LOVES ALL MANKIND MOST OF ALL CHILDREN.I MYSELF WAS IN BLACKROCK WHEN I WENT BACK TO SCHOOL I REMEMBER THE NUNS SLAPPING PUNCHING KNUCKLING IN THE SIDE OF MY HEAD.I WISH ALL EVERYONE WHO WRITES HERE WILL MOVE ON WITH THEIR LIVES.GOD BLESS YOU ALL JUNEXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
I have Been Ignored my human Rights Firstly i am a survivor of Child Abuse i Have every Document detail in B&W, Secondly i was compensated By Redress but Never Apologized to or recommend to a high court with such evidence i have in my procession,
Thirdly i never got a luck in with the Child vaccine Trial that they injected me with Diphtheria Polio Vaccine which i have Procession in my Hand of and full evidence of the vaccines batch numbers that i received, the Government cancelled the Inquiry and i received a letter from Miss Shannon clearly denying that i ever received the Vaccines and the proof looking at me every day right here in my hand, even the solicitor said oh my god you have evidence and proof of Illegal bad vaccines been given to you not once a year but three time in the year from the age of 1 years old right up to 14 years old, and when i showed them to the Judge in Redress and he Said oh they cancelled the Vaccine trial in 2002, this was just a few months when i send a copy of one of the batches to a company in Dame Street which have gone now, but to keep them as i had the proof, Judge Ryan was his name.
i would love if somebody would read this and help me to tell my story as i got in touch with some TDS and they have choose to ignore the seriousness of child vaccine Abuse that happened to me,
Hi again Oliver, thanks for making me chuckle.
Just to let you know, my gardening skills are improving, unlike my swimming strokes: I’ll just carry on paddling my own canoe, as they say.
All the best,
Martha
Dear Martha, sorry about delay in reply, due to gardening work by my partner and I. Torrential rain, strange weather patterns, almost like a reversal of climates. Luckily, we are at an altitude of approx 1950 feet above sea level. Anything you stick in the ground, just grows, from floral, fruit & veg, to almost any type of tree. But, some of the wildlife is extremely wild. That goodness that the Roman Catholic Church is almost defunct, here. However, hope your swimming is improving. A few test bouts across the Irish sea or the English would suffice. Watch out for the Papal Barque (boat) crewed by Opus Dei, stormtroopers, they will definitely be on the lookout for the our kind. They still have an International Patent on the deadly “Cementa Shoes”. It’ll be a long walk back on the bottom of the Irish sea, with that lot upon your feet. As Ms M. Hearing, would not advise you to take precautions. Kindest regards Twisted Oliver
Dear James Moy, very good reaction to the Cork fiddlers, and part of the Irish Dail & Catholic Church orchestrated scams, with a relative as conductor. It seems that most of their support, succumbed to rigamortis. Probably a mass resurrection for the next Anal Generous Meeting in 2013. A miraculous apparition of their “deceased” board members. Whereas the First motion moved, will be to make sure none of the Government Grants make it to the bottom line. Their Mission Statement, “God will help those, that help themselves”. They definitely are qualified. Must congratulate the Chairman, for his deadly decisions. Mind you James, the Board is truly warped. Regards Twisted Oliver.
Oliver Whelan wrote:-
“The finance is whats required to tackle this …”
No its not Oliver. Poverty is a state of mind. Either you value yourself as a person, or you don’t. Money doesn’t come into the equation when it comes to one’s Humanity. THINK about it …
Cheers,
Martha
Oliver Whelan wrote:-
“I read a prediction about Eire, by Columbkille 570 A.D, that seven years before the End Time, (Ireland) in one day, will totally sink beneath the sea. Oops! etc …”
I’ve been practising my swimming strokes ever since I read that post of yours! lol!!!
Dear Jarl, have but a few minutes ago, lodged my request to three Irish Euro MPs , for my case to be heard at European Crimes Commission. I gave a not too brief outline of my case against the whole Irish establishment. Far too incestuous, for any Irish surviving Victim, to receieve any justice. Denial, is their game. “A sign of the times”. They even tried to put a time limit upon complaints of rape, murder & attempted murder, under the Previous govt, of Bertie Ahearn. Who loved their Irish Catholic upbringing. His asshole must have been tingling and his pockets jingling. Thanks again Jarl, for international intervention on this site. And for Paddy and all his writing fans of this site, for their input. Everyone, nothing is over until it is totally accomplished, the battle is just started. Keep writing, from a very grateful Twisted Oliver. Keep in Touch.
Jarl, Irish disadvantaged, have for a very long time, have fled just for financial reasons, but families en masse to save their children from forced internment in Vatican sponsored child prisons, as slaves. The fruits of their/our labour, is still maintaining the Irish Catholic Church, dispensed by the infamous Vatican Banking system. Kevin Dunaghy, of The Raggy Boy film fame, was in Artane Prison School, in my time there. He a couple of years older than me, he was a little retarded, his communication skills, were almost childlike. He was constantly beaten, for failing to comprehend almost militarised instruction, from very brutal disciplinerians, (un Christian Brothers). Lay employees treatment of Kevin, equally brutal. How he eneded up in London, possibly unaided, still baffels me. The film script line, is a sham, which I as a his fellow Victim, find very insulting. No Religious or lay wanders ( “Carers”) made the slightest attempt to give help or advice to the “slow” (retarded) Victims. In the slavery department, these unfortunate poor features were just not financial to our Vatican sponsored masters. Homeless in the London streets, an Irish retarded Vatican victim, lacking in the basic survival skills through unspeakable brutality. He died of total neglect. Those bastards and the Irish State must be held to account, in full for these atrocious crimes committed against our kind. Come on brothers and sisters, let us at least, try. Twisted Oliver.
Oliver – you may also find this website helpful.
http://europa.eu/pol/rights/index_en.htm
Oliver – You’ll find all of the Irish MEPs here. They are due for re-election in 2013 so this is a perfect time to approach them.
http://ec.europa.eu/ireland/ireland_in_the_eu/meps/index1_en.htm
Good wishes, Jarl.
Dear Paddy Doyle, thanks for reply, will try Google, and hope info is up to date. Regards Oliver
Jarl, next week will pay the Irish Consul a visit, get Euro Mps details, and if this fails, will get Appointment with Prime Minister Julia Gilliard, & get the ball rolling. And through an Aussie Irish legal beagle contact, very sympathetic to persecuted minorities like we victims of Vatican sponsored Irish Catholic Church abuse. He will, map out my/our course of action. Remembering Jarl that the Irish Ahearn Govt, put this undemocratic spoke in Irish law , denying we victims the right to take this matter, beyond Irish shores. Most of we victims have never lived in Ireland as “free persons” and yet they seek to muzzle us, with crooked laws. Twisted Oliver.
And this is how the Irish governmentm under the powerful influences of the medical profession, continue the abuse of Ireland’s children. In 20 to 30 years these children will be seeking compensations for the medical and iatrogenic abuses they are suffering.
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2012/0419/breaking44.html
Oliver, I don’t have the contact details for the Irish Euro MEP’s. I suggest you “Google” something like ‘Irish Members of the European Parliament’ and you will most likely find them there. Good luck! Paddy.
Dear Paddy Doyle, would you be so kind as to give me the contact details of the Irish Euro Mps. I, never having lived in Ireland as a free person, am completely ignorant of the Irish governmental system. Guribh mile mhait aguit .Oilibhear bocht.
Thank you Jarl, I will put a note on this site, to Paddy Doyle re the Irish Euro Mps (Teachta Dail) . Thanks again for your welcome interest, in our imprisonment, by Vatican sponsored Irish Roman Catholic Church. Regards from, Twisted Oliver.
Dearest Pauline, It is unfortunate for your family, that they are not interested in your awful, illegal imprisonment in Goldenbridge. You would be correct in totally avoiding them. These people are not even with bothering with. To refer to them as family is insulting your very self. Your style of writing is of a very compassionate nature. Even most survivors of a similar unlawful imprisonment, such as ours, being Vatican sponsored kidnap of little helpless children, though not immediate family, are very sympathetic, and do really want to read or hear about past and ongoing suffering. Pauline, I can tell that your ” Carers ” were very uncaring. We victims are very sympathetic. After all we victims in reality bothers & sisters to everyone of our kind. The very few victims who take advantage of other less fortunate, are just temporarily out of order. Amongst oneanother , in those Catholic hell holes, a mere smile from a friend was priceless and really gladdened the heart. Amidst the terrible hunger, cold and the unspeakable brutality inflicted upon our tiny skeletal bodies, by our overindulged glutonous jailors. Sorry Pauline, just a few recollections of the past. kindest regards from Twisted Oliver.
The only thing that has helped me get to the stage of talking is because i go to a counseller. I was scared stiff of saying what i felt and i needed help. trying to understand the influence my education had on my life. its not about then its about now being able to exchange. The first step forward is the beginning. I havent got much contact and advice helps.and i feel very uneasy with my family because we never got to know each other.So it was all blocked up inside me. at dinner partys well talking about my time in goldenbridge makes them uneasy so i wouldnt want to be rude. always trying to please.But that way we keep at a distance.
There all down the pub, celebrating the fact that they have managed to inflict further damage and insult to all Survivors in their adult lives now.
They claim to understand the hurt we suffered and insist they will not let it happen again, but instead refuse to listen to us, and decide what is best for us , without allowing us any sort of say.
That is the truth of the matter, they are right up there with our Religious Abusers, and determined to cause us further abuse in our elder ages now.
Jimmy
P.S. Where are the Irish Euro MPs – get them involved.
Oliver – I am suggesting that in the first instance it should be the Irish government which should be bringing those charges of Crimes against Humanity in the European Courts on behalf of the people of Ireland who have been so violated and abused by the Roman Catholic Church and its servants over many decades. An Online Petition to this effect could be started to be brought in (say) six months to the Irish government and could be subscribed to by those others around the world. Subject to their support, the Petition could also be presented to the governments in those other countries (there are hundreds of RC victims (and their relatives/friends) in Australia, England, North America, and Canada and who I’m sure would support such Petitions as well as those in the RC Church who still have a conscience and a sense of moral outrage. If this is unsuccessful in getting those governments to act in this way (they did it quickly enough against the Serbian leaders and now against Syrian leaders for atrocities against the People) then a group could be formed to pursue matters as Litigants in Person in the European Courts – much of which could be done at little or no cost. There may even be pro bono lawyers with sufficient similar moral outrage to do some of the work. THINK BIG Oliver and make it happen!. You have more power than you know and believe.
Dear Jarll, thank you for that information, but the majority of Irish Catholic Church Victims have little or no resources to fight this sort of litigation. The Catholics and their boot lickers have all the finance, even the more recent assets that should have been divided amongst the survivors of Vatican, Irish Church and State imprisonment as little children to 16 years of age, has this very week been syphoned off by this Irish boot licking Government. Probably be spent on anal rimming , on the Consular circuit parties, with their church gowns discarded upon the Embassy floors. The finance is whats required to tackle this, Jarll. The survivors of Vatican/Irish abuse are living in virtual exile all over the planet. Travel and accommodation costs . Unless you have another suggestion Jarll ?. Looking forward to your reply. Twisted Oliver.
Dear Martha, Pauline and Portia, I really do admire your persistence and like what you write. Strange, that not many of our brotherly victims, write upon this site. Maybe be inferiority complex, so sad. Unfortunately not many of our kind, show much of a fighting spirit, when it comes to pummelling those abusive bullies of the Vatican and the Irish Catholic Church boot lickers. Ireland, both people/ Catholics and the Irish politicians, their crappy church have a lot to answer for. They all deserve the shit that is going down, over there. That is what they get for putting us in Prisons as little children, until 16 years of age. I read a prediction about Eire, by Columbkille 570 A.D, that seven years before the End Time, (Ireland) in one day, will totally sink beneath the sea. Oops! Hopefully, this week. I jumped for joy on reading that. Regards to everyone on this great site. Twisted Oliver.
Jackson Pauline wrote:-
” … And all the proof shows that the church in ireland is not to be trusted.To the pope its canon law that matters not living suffering children and broken adults.”
Dear Pauline,
The Catholic Church (or any other organised religion) is not to be trusted is Ireland, or anywhere else. So-call Canon Law is a man-made set of rules that bears no relation to the Law of the Land, that is, the law by which all citizens of a country live by, as any community (group of pelple) are expected to respect. In other words, the Catholic Church (in Ireland, or any other part of the globe) regard themselves as ABOVE the Law of the Land, i.e., that which applies to ALL citizens of the country in which It (they) invade – yes, INVADE! Its called “Might is Right!” … I could go on, but I’m getting tired now.
Take care,
Martha
Raymond wrote:-
“At least, the Labour Party has just RE-stated that the Rome Embassy will remain … ”
The Irish Labour Party is not what it once was, namely, a political party that represented the Irish working people.
I guess what I’m saying here is that Ireland is now a country of Happy-Clappy people (grin and fucking bear it!) – at least that’s how Official Ireland would have it, and the present Labour Party are part of that Official Ireland.
Include me out …
Portia wrote:-
“The people of Eire are a disgrace to humanity.”
Hi Portia, I see you use the word “Eire” quite a bit (if I’m not mistaken) why is that? It seems to me to be an ancient word to describe Ireland. I’m not saying its wrong, its just that I find it somewhat strange. I’m Irish myself, having been born and raised here, I have lived abroad in several countries for many years, I have to say I don’t subscribe to the “I’m not proud to be Irish” brigade. As far as I’m concerned, I just happened to be born in Ireland, but I considered myself to be Human first and foremost.
Which is why I don’t (as you put it) :-
“Licking the boots of our murderers and tormentors.”
Lots of Irish people do that sort of thing, but I never did – despite (or because of) my Irish Catholic upbringing. Sure, I paid a price for my Liberty, but it was worth it – who the fuck WANTS to be a RC clone?!!!
“The adults of the Catholic cult knew fine well what was going on when we were children.”
Yeah, but were they really ADULT? I don’t think so …
“What did we get when we spoke of abuse and rape? our mouths washed out with soap and water etc.”
You may be talking about the nuns (in the RC Industrial Schools/Child Labour Camps) but so too did many Irish mothers and fathers do the same thin to their children at home …
… etc etc etc …
Portia, can I just say this: NOBODY can make you feel inferior to them, unless you let them. Yes, I know children can be made feel very afraid of the adults in their life. But, once we are adult ourselves, nobody can wield such power over us – unless we let them. That’s the difference between a being an adult (proper) and a child.
Think about it.
All the best,
Martha
Remember the indoctrination boys and girls.
We children born of Eve ill wombman were born to suffer for the sin of being born of woman.
This is how our suffering and torture was and is justified.
It is pathological psychopathic mentality where wrong is made right and right wrong.
Psychopaths and sadists have no consciences- we must remember that, but they get great pleasure like Hitler and Mengele from seeing children suffer. After all the jesuits taught Hitler and the SS.
Anyway it is not as if any TD is expected to open his wallet to pay compensation, is it?
Derek.of course Alan is wrong, but you have to remember to a patriarch like Alan- they were just women – second class beings with no souls. I feel Alan’s own religious brainwashing may well be clouding his interpretation of the law.
The state was and is responsible for the protection of its citizens.
Also Alan is minister for justice at the moment and ignores the COURT ORDERED ABUSE OF CHILDREN IN STAR CHAMBER FAMILY LAW COURTS.
Nothing has changed even in 2012…. children are just not seen as full human beings in Eire.
Ireland must have its Day of Atonement with the Roman Catholic Church for the crimes they have committed since they sent Patrick, the Welsh Tax Collector, to its shores. There must be no more covering the eyes or turning their eyes away from the atrocities by the men in positions of power, no more throwing the Cloak of Denial over their brutalities, no more making excuses for them.
Ireland’s shame before the world must be expunged and its moral integrities must be cleansed, so that every Irish man and Irish Woman can lift their heads in pride again.
If the Roman Catholic Church is not punished in the severest of ways, then it will continue in its ways because their leaders and their followers have learnt nothing, they have not admitted their wrongdoings, they have not apologised for the fullness of their crimes, nor sought redemption, so they will go on.
They will continue in their ways of male supremacism, and the subjugation of females to their will. It is only the male supremacists in the Dail, who will help them retain their powers and controls over the Irish people and to keep Ireland stuck in the hypocrisy of 16th Century morality.
As a Citizen of Ireland , i fine it shamefuly that Minster of Justice Alan Shatter is all ready saying that state was not involvement with the Magdalene , he has got Martin Mcaleese to the job but before he has finish the job he is now saying that the Magdalene have no case he is so wrong he should tel the civillised to get up to speed &look at 1908 act & the Irish consitution 1948 article 19 of the UN for Children Derek Linster of the Bethany Home
Good i am glad that things are being taken serously at last.There isint any other way to get a reaction. As thay never explain why these things were allowed to happen. The church think we could never understand thier motives but its easy thier is no mystery about that. protecting the church members no matter what. Even when its the children that thay are supposed to be caring for who suffer. The next life isint here so this life is where we prove ourselves. And all the proof shows that the church in ireland is not to be trusted.To the pope its canon law that matters not living suffering children and broken adults.
At least, the Labour Party has just RE-stated that the Rome Embassy will remain “…..closed until the Vatican co-operated with the Republic’s inquiries into the sexual abuse of children.”
That’s a continued step in the right direction.
Stay on this path. Speak and LIVE FROM YOUR HEART
The people of Eire are a disgrace to humanity.
We were once a strong proud race of beings with the most advanced civilisation on Earth and where are we now.?
Licking the boots of our murderers and tormentors.
The adults of the Catholic cult knew fine well what was going on when we were children.
What did we get when we spoke of abuse and rape? our mouths washed out with soap and water etc.
Even my 4 year old could work out they were simple men in dresses conning the people out of their money and brainwashing them to hand over their power.
Little do people realise that in baptism, parents sign over the soul of their child to these men. Now insane is that in 2012.
Roman church is a CULT, acts like a cult, brainwashes like a cult, controls like a cult using FEAR AND GUILT.
Any other cult would be disbanded by now and its leaders arrested, so why not this ancient child sacrificing one?
No support from the Just Us system.??
Of course not. opus Dei run the system, the family law courts etc.
So we will need to rid the system of these men in robes and their brainwashing of the court CORPORATION agents.
Even now, the system judges, lawliars, barristers etc- boys in curls are all making a profit from the misery of our lives under the yoke of Roma.
So what we have in Eire is the clever take over of the Gov and all depts by the men of god and the men in curls .
Now a new group has infiltrated all depts to take over, because the force knows the men in robes have had their day. So Common Purpose has been put in place in Eire- without most people having a clue.
I know this video takes a while to watch, but it shows how all that is happening is not by chance and was all put in place thousands of years ago- centre being Rome of course.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VllwRgSECcw&feature=uploademail
The one thing to know is, members of Dail, men in robes and curls have their emotions turned off. For many this has happened during their own child hood abuse- so they cannot feel what victims tell them.
The psychopathic ones enjoy sesing their victims suffer and still do- they in fact FEED OFF US ENERGETICALLY….and few people know this.
Dear Oliver, It seems as though the entire Irish establishment is trying to keep this foul-smelling carcass of RC abuse in its box. To help it break out, I’d suggest a Online Petition could help (if one hasn’t already been started) and demanding of the Irish government to bring those charges of Crimes against Humanity and other atrocities against the Vatican to the European Courts. The Aire Centre may also be able to help. http://www.airecentre.org/pages/contact-us.html
Those crimes include:
1. The Physical, Sexual and Emotional abuses of children in Ireland and worldwide over several decades; 2. The abduction of babies and small children from their young mothers; 3. The enslavement of young girls and boys in Magdalen laundries and Industrial schools; 4. The forcing back of mothers and children into marriages where they had been violently abused. And the many others which you can add. The Crimes Against Humanity by the Roman Catholic Church far exceed those of the Serbian leaders in their conflicts in Yugoslavia in the 1990s and have been far more extensive in the numbers of people abused and killed (40 people abused by Roman Catholic Church employees have committed suicide in Victoria Australia) – a government Inquiry into those deaths has now been ordered.
I will be one of the first to sign such a petition.
The Roman Catholic Church and its leaders, minions, and followers must face justice for their crimes of social terrorism waged against the people of Ireland and across the world.
Martha, I will one day, put all the remaining church assets to good use. As accommodation for homeless people. Martha, everything we write and do against these “feckers ” is mud at the wall. I personally feel, we are affecting, these feckers. Keep writing the ugly everyone. And do take great interest in all of our brothers sisters, positive input. Each negative is one nearer to positive. Regards to all, Twisted Oliver.
Dear Jarl , Martha had hit the nail right on the head. Every echelon of Irish society is entrenched in this Vatican Roman Catholic Church. The Victims Redress Board was stage managed by Church, politicians, “legal reps for Victims”, .most Irish media outlets. The Victims Redress Board, paid a mere token to the Victims. Jarl, let me tell you, it is enshrined in Irish law, that this will not receive any Govt support, more likely, that they will fight us tooth and nail, to ensure we fail. The majority of Irish Victims of Vatican sponsored abuse, have never lived in Ireland, as free persons. It is a monolithic travesty of justice to all of us surviving Victims. In 2006/07 I canvassed some legal, media, etc, with a big zero. Some media hype and that’s all. All of Irish Hierarchy are in partnership, as we are regarded as the scum, of Irish society. Even the people of Ireland, “kept mum” during this terrible period of our time, in these Prisons. However, it is possible that we could try. Jarl, have you any suggestions? If so, could some of us offer suggestions also put a note on this site, with a reference to Paddy Doyle. Paddy is the site manager and as our fellow Victim, would be able to shed light upon all of our input. Thank you for your interest Jarl, and fresh input is most welcome. Regard to all of our brothers & sisters. Twisted Oliver .
Pauline Jackson wrote:-
” … i do get on with my life in spite of a splintered family. i suppose we all do.”
Yes, Pauline, I understand exactly what you mean. That’s the real tragedy about the Catholic Church and its pernicious dogma, it destroys families. I have no real connection with my own siblings anymore: I tried for years to engage with them, but to no avail, sadly. No love lost, sort of thing …
Jarl Ragnvald wrote:-
“When are those in the Roman Catholic Church going to be held accountable by the European Court of Human Rights for the atrocities and crimes against humanity and the human rights violatinhs they have committed?”
When the Irish government/authorities recover from their own childhood experience of Roman Catholic indoctrination. I wouldn’t hold my breath of that one, as I know from personal experience how difficult it is to recover from such systematic psychological abuse, which for some people, was so routine for them as children, they grew up believing it to be normal human behaviour. Just think of the RC doctrine of “Original Sin” which will give you an idea of what I mean.
“And what about those who enter the portals of the Roman Catholic Churches in Ireland and elsewhere, who by such actions are condoning and colluding in those atrocities?. Have they no consciences, Have they no shame that they openly support these criminals in robes?”
What about them indeed. As far as I’m concerned they are mainly people who can’t rid themselves of their deeply-ingrained and deeply internalised RC habits. In other words, such people just don’t think – or, I suppose, don’t know how to think, for themselves. One way or another, they’re not what I regard as normal people: ok to talk about the weather with, but that’s about it.
“The Irish government should bring these charges of Crimes against Humanity and atrocities and vioalations of human rights by those in the Roman Catholic Church to the European Court of Human Rights and the European Court for these matters to be fully examined. … ”
That’ll be the day!
Thanks very much Martha. well yes i do feel free from religion now . I suppose my anger wwith the way these people talk about thier role in covering up child abuse helped me to cut the last strings attaching me to Ireland. It was a differcult moment but its over. I left Ireland because i was on the run from goldenbridge. for most of my life i have kept well away from any churchs . But all these years i have been wondering why the lot of them preach about the goodness and then turn around and act with such indifference. When i saw the vidios of the head of the church saying yes i did act!!!!. and when he acted for 20 years children were raped. this dident seem to move him at all . So no thanks i will continue keeping well away from people like that. Child protection is urgent. i do get on with my life in spite of a splintered family. i suppose we all do.
When are those in the Roman Catholic Church going to be held accountable by the European Court of Human Rights for the atrocities and crimes against humanity and the human rights violatinhs they have committed?.
And what about those who enter the portals of the Roman Catholic Churches in Ireland and elsewhere, who by such actions are condoning and colluding in those atrocities?. Have they no consciences, Have they no shame that they openly support these criminals in robes?.
The Irish government should bring these charges of Crimes against Humanity and atrocities and vioalations of human rights by those in the Roman Catholic Church to the European Court of Human Rights and the European Court for these matters to be fully examined. Those leaders of the RC Church in the Vatican and the Dioceses of Ireland must be brought to account for their crimes and those of their organisation.
Oliver Whelan wrote:-
” … we Victims throwing huge volumes of mud at the murderous Vatican abusers and their senile men in frocks. It is actually sticking. … ”
Oliver, it will take a lot more than throwing mud at those guys to knock ’em off their gilt-edge thrones.
“Off with their heads!” LOL!
Ignore the feckers. Above all, don’t feed your children to them!
Redmond Barry wrote:-
“… Democracy was arriving anyway. Devalera obtained power by force and his right wing party which had self interest at heart. No excuses, Devalera was a thug in sheeps cloting. His family maintains some considerable power today and that is a strong indicator of the structure of power in Ireland today.”
Hi RB,
Democracy (as I understand it) is never gained by force. Force is force, e.g., “Military Might”, so ANYTHING achieved by force is, well, just plain brutality.
“Fianna Fail members are deeply committed to corruption and remained in almost total power for 90 years and today even former leader aherns is so engrained in corrupt though, that he sees no reason to be ashamed even though he prevailed over the economic destruction of a nation.”
Its not just the Fianna Fail crowd – our entire Government/Politicos are ALL products of families/tribes who were deeply comitted to Roman Catholic dogma. Need I elaborate? In short, they’re effing lunatics! LOL!!!
“The party of course had no interest in childrens affairs as those affairs in their won right expressed no power on their position.”
In other words, MAD adults don’t give a shit about children. Why is that, Redmond, do you ever wonder?
“The child that was brought into that world not only suffered from total indifference by the state and government which had arrived to that position by violence.”
Yes, but such a child was born to a mother (parents) who were psychologically identified with The System that shaped their way of thinking. Ergo, “that child’s” awful fate.
“It amazes me that priests and clerics still wear their uniforms open as if to mock the people desppite the emergence of the truth of what they have been really doing.”
Not too many RC clerics (nuns and priests) wear their clerical garb in public, in Ireland, these days. Still, one can always spot a cleric in “civvies”. Methinks its their “gait” or sumthin…
I’ll leave it at that, Redmond, cos I gotta go and feed the cat now …
All the best,
Martha
Thanks Martha, I’m having a lot of fun, reading the truth.And we Victims throwing huge volumes of mud at the murderous Vatican abusers and their senile men in frocks. It is actually sticking. Regards A happier Twisted Oliver. P.s. Everyone keep throwing.
At the time of the foundation of the Irish state, the world war had already weakened the aristocratic system accross aurope and it was this system which had caused so much injustice in Ireland. The separation from Britain was essentially an outdated idea. Democracy was arriving anyway. Devalera obtained power by force and his right wing party which had self interest at heart. No excuses, Devalera was a thug in sheeps cloting. His family maintains some considerable power today and that is a strong indicator of the structure of power in Ireland today. Fianna Fail members are deeply committed to corruption and remained in almost total power for 90 years and today even former leader aherns is so engrained in corrupt though, that he sees no reason to be ashamed even though he prevailed over the economic destruction of a nation.
Into that world was born the child who ultimately came to be in a borstal ultimately governed by a party which obtained its power by violence and collusion with the vatican to strengthen its own position. The party of course had no interest in childrens affairs as those affairs in their won right expressed no power on their position.
The child that was brought into that world not only suffered from total indifference by the state and government which had arrived to that position by violence. Worse still, that vacuum was staffed by persons who were deeply angered by tby their treatment in life and supervised by a religuous organisation with beliefs that children whould be exploited and abuse.
Having spent a great deal of my own life away from Ireland where my mind is at ease, it is still shocking to see the support maintained among ordinary country people for the church and to see priests openly promoting their industry of misery as a valid and respectable trade. It amazes me that priests and clerics still wear their uniforms open as if to mock the people desppite the emergence of the truth of what they have been really doing.
So long as desperation, ignorance and superstition have a place in reality in Irish mind, these parasites and evil epople from Rome will continue to exert some form of control over Irish life.
Surgical removal has a more important role.
So Pauline, just to say, if you are also a survivor of Holy Catholic Ireland, my advice to you is try your best to make the most of your life. Those RC bastards don’t give a shite about you or anyone else except themselves and their Fans.
All the best of luck,
Martha
??? Something’s going on here… I just posted a reply to Pauline Jackson and it ain’t showing up, with the usual Red bit at the end : “Your comment is awaiting moderation”. We’ll just wait and see what happens, eh?
Meantime, hope you’re keeping well Paddy.
Hello again Oliver,
You said:-
“However, we are pure victims of Roman Catholic Popery sheepish kind. Holding us all to ransom, with Jumbo Jumbo.The very old game of divide and rule. Lets see what the next load of bright sparks, come up with. Darned if you do and darned if you don’t. Common decency my ass !”
No, Oliver, they (“Roman Catholic Popery” as you put it) are not holding us ALL to ransom; they’re certainly not holding me back that’s for sure! Its like that old song which Ella Fitzgerald sang so beautifully: “They can’t take that away from me … ”
And yes, I agree, its the age-old game of “Divide and Conquer”. But what rational (sane) adult takes any notice of that shit? Not I.
As for your “Common decency my Ass!” remark: as Oscar Wilde said “Common sense is a most uncommon thing”.
Take it easy Oliver, you only have one life – make the best of it.
Regards,
Martha
Well said Martha, justice in Ireland is impossible. Derek , look at our Northern brothers & sisters, most are pure Irish & Protestant. Through sheer frustration at the crookedness of Roman Catholic Popery, aligned themselves with European & mainland British Protesters. The only sure way for real justice system, is a people to be A political and dump religion. However, we are pure victims of Roman Catholic Popery sheepish kind. Holding us all to ransom, with Jumbo Jumbo.The very old game of divide and rule. Lets see what the next load of bright sparks, come up with. Darned if you do and darned if you don’t. Common decency my ass !. Twisted Oliver.
Derek Linster said:-
“Thank you for your comments, however it is difficult for the majority of the Irish State to understand what is being done in their name, when it come to dealing with the minority protestant abused children. The state cares not one jot, about whether they get justice or not. In opposition the TDS from various parties promised what they would do for us. They done nothing for us to date.They hope we will all go away and die, but we will fight on till that day comes for justice to the minority.”
Dear Derek,
Your personal pain is very obvious to me. However, what you need to realise is that the VAST MAJORITY of Irish people were, and still are, the products of their own personal experience of Holy Catholic Ireland, when they were children.
You said:-
“They done nothing for us to date.They hope we will all go away and die, but we will fight on till that day comes for justice to the minority.”
Justice is a very rare thing in Ireland. As a people, we have a long way to go before we, collectively, will seek Justice, because we are still a cowered Society. Sad to say, but its true. That’s why I, personally, don’t expect Justice to be done in Ireland in my lifetime. Meantime, I just get on with my life as best I can. Maybe I’m luckier than you? I don’t know: all I know is I make the best of what I’ve got, what I have achieved. But I’m always aware that Life is very precious to me. I speak as one who is also a survivor of the savage brutality (aka INSANITY) of Holy Catholic Ireland, but above all, as a mother.
I wish you all the best of luck, Derek.
Martha
To Derek, your argument is definitely with the Irish Catholic Church, in your time of captivity, they held the reins of power, in a manner of speaking. They being the financial controllers of our Catholic Republican State, had the power of life and death and appointed all Teachta Dail (TD ) in the Irish Vatican enclave. And as the Irish Government accepted a pissass sum of Redress for Victims, then approach the Taoiseach knock upon his office door, as I did with Ahearn , staking your claim as an Irish Victim of the Vatican Agency in Ireland. There is no way, in hell that the minority churches in Ireland could have even lifted a finger without the Approval of the Vatican Churches Political Duopoly. Even the supposed Irish govts Prison Schools inspectors, merely glanced through the perimeter bars, at we Victims, yours included Derek, for fear of seeing the Ugly Truth. Of course you have a case. Get out there with your band and stake your claim. Twisted Oliver
Derek your comment is very sad . it says a lot about the powerfull. all religion is secondry to young children.the madelaine ladys too are still not considered.
Thank you for your comments, however it is difficult for the majority of the Irish State to understand what is being done in their name, when it come to dealing with the minority protestant abused children. The state cares not one jot, about whether they get justice or not. In opposition the TDS from various parties promised what they would do for us. They done nothing for us to date.They hope we will all go away and die, but we will fight on till that day comes for justice to the minority.
And for all these years in power in ireland thay have tortored all kinds of people. all these machines pulling people apart were used by the catholic church. children put into there care were abandoned by society because of isolation. when familys dont see each other bonding becomes impossable. all this was thought about by someone in power otherwise thay would have been arrested. using the money paid to them for themselves. with such a history its downright amazing that thay still have a hold on social work.
Dear Martha, firstly the Roman Church got its foothold in Ireland, with ex slave of some marauding Irish nobleman, his name Patrick. Although I would dispute the slave bit, as the new Christians in England, and he was already known to them as a bit of a deviant, pre 432 A.D. So in the sixth to seventh century, the main Viking incursions, were to get a piece of this Roman Church that the Christian Church in Ireland had amassed. Living off the fat of the land. The Irish monks and Patriarchal hierarchy , were paid handsomely for their saving all the ancient Greek Mythology and all of Romes recorded history since its founder, Romulus. The Vatican was well established in Ireland by the time Brian Boru Christian Church crusade that finalised the hold of the non Catholic Norse (“Pagan”) in this Roman/Vatican enclave. That being 999 A.D. The Vatican decided what Princes or Kings were appointed even throughout Europe and Asia Minor. The Vatican was at the back of the back of The Battle of The Battle Boyne , with their preferred King , Bonnie Prince Charles . And prior, backing Duke of Buckingham , oust the Tudor Queen Elizabeth. All of these abismal loss of lives, were the fault of the Vatican . Oliver
Oliver Whelan said:-
“And the pope is only about his meaningless, Godforsaken investments. That we Vatican Victims will take from him and his bloodsuckers .”
Hello again, Oliver,
I agree with you that Nature, aka Mother Earth, is “an astounding place”, as you say. I love the Great Outdoors …
But I don’t understand why you refer to yourself as a “Vatican Victim”. Why continue to give those “bloodsuckers” any credence?
I step on a lot of ants and other miniscule insects when I’m out walking and gardening, without even thinking about it … if you get my drift :)
All the best,
Martha
Dear Martha, I do love your honesty, when it comes to beliefs. Remember that the Vatican does not believe in God. They only give lip service to this in order to dupe their subscribers. They are about, the high life of the upper class hypocrites who only turn up for potential business opportunities. Mans laws are too numerous and any system that has too many laws has an awful lot to hide. Still Martha, God is great to talk about. This Planet for all its faults, is an astounding place. The diversity in all of its creatures is awesome. Vegitation, Topography, its resources, our support planets, galaxy, universe etc, etc., And the pope is only about his meaningless, Godforsaken investments. That we Vatican Victims will take from him and his bloodsuckers .Oliver.
Hi All,
I’d just like to say that there’s absolutely no point in taking the Vatican Boys seriously. Either bomb the fuckers off the planet, or (do as I do) just ignore them. Treat them like the SUB-HUMANS they are.
Why waste one’s precious energy arguing with LUNATICS? :)
So, Oliver, it seems you haven’t recovered from your childhood RC indoctrination, otherwise you wouldn’t have said:-
” I believe our Creator, to be a loving, but a vern stern master. He has ten laws”
Dear Oliver, when are you going to start thinking for yourself? Drop the “Creator” myth bullshit -its only holding you back as a human…
I am afraid that if we stop reminding people about what was done to us all by these agents of power things will slip back into what it was like before. the Church still doesnt show any signs of investigating the acts of abuse installed by the church i all places where thay were. example who decided that beating starving and overworking children would turn them into good catholics. it seems to have been part of thier training program. as for sexual abuse well its a well known fact that it destroys the victim as thay have had thier bodys stolen.So how come this matters so little to the church that thay are trying to get out of it with clever lawyers. its important to us but it doesnt seem to matter to the heads of the church. the present pope had a role to play in the cover up and now we see him on the tele moralising others about thier lives and how thay should protect thier children.You know oliver you would proberly do a much better job of it as you know the damage done by insincere men dressed in finery.
Yes my dear Fellow Victims I, Oliver De Wale (of the Fairman) rightfully claim tbe Seat of the Papacy, initially being the throne of the Roman Cesars( Ce- Zars)
to my fellow Victim Martha, here is a little poem re Irish developers:- Little Boy Blue Has No Horn
No Sheep In The Meadow No Cow In The Corn Where is The Boy Who Looks AfterThe Sheep He’s In His Penthouse, Counting His Assets, Now Fast Asleep, Pope (Interim) PeaceAnWar
Martha, you are also right about a lot of the Irish, who live in Ireland, and whom are also as of now, very class orientated. And whilst in their eyes, especially towards our kind and altbough it appears to them, that might is right, eventually even their rights will be done to death. It seems that a recent wake up call to the Irish in Ireland has gone unheeded. The Greek debacle will come to them. Who will provide for them, if they don’t kickstart there own farming industries. Ireland was renown for the quantity and quality of its produce. A reliance upon computer software products, gave them big heads and the global downturn in demand for frivolities However, food is in very short supply and you can’t eat silicon chips, or software on toast, impossible to digest gold silver or diamonds. Class riddled Ireland, the church and financial institutions, the property market, building industry all caught with their pants down. European mainland is no slouch, as Germany will align itself with the larvest & best economies. Ireland unfortunatly forgot how to make hay, when the sun shone. At least the current Taoiseach is more switched on than any of the previous buffoons and their kissing Papal butts. Enda Kenny, is of a Rural Farming kind, a must fo Ireland. A Michael Collins is what the Irish need, what they initially wanted was very wrong. Martha, I believe our Creator, to be a loving, but a vern stern master. He has ten laws, abzo
Victims, we are by default, unwittingly the Children of the Vatican. That should open up a can of worms in any litigation. All of the Orders were akin to Agents of said Vatican. So the spoils will cede to us, their Children. Lets observe how the Orders cope with Poverty and Homelessness. Would you hire these people as carers. ? Watch this space, we will. Twisted Oliver
Raymond, your a bloddy Star. What a fantastic article from U.K Daily Telegraph, Cost of New Redress to Vatican sponsored Agent Victims just under €11 Billion. And that Decedant Irish Priest who referred to priests collar as the “Perfect Bird Catcher” . Another good reason for the Pope to resign. And from this day onwards, I, Oliver Whelan in my role as Interim Pope WaranPeace do confer upon Paddy Doyle of Paddy Doyle.com, Sainthood. Henceforth to be known to all Victims of Vatican sponsered Abuse, as:- Saint Paddy Doyle of his realm, paddydoyle.com, in his tireless pursuit of our Vatican Sponsored Agents who subjected we Victims of said agents and their cashed up sponsor, to horrific manners of Abuse, causing us the Victims, life long injuries, mental disturbances, resulting in dibilitating consuming hate, for our said persecutors and their associated sponsors. All those in favour of this honour, say Aye. Twisted Oliver
Dear Martha, yes Ireland is a class ridden society. And our ex Vatican masters and their Irish agents, promoted this dribble. How could one buy a seat in Heaven without money. So the ” Trading in the Temple” assured the Vaticans Irish Agents of Patronage and Funds. In return Juicy Govt contracts were handed out in these churches to traders, by agents of the Vatican/Irish Catholic Controlled Government. Draconian laws passed, favouring our Vatican masters. We the Victims enslavement, enriched the Catholic church and provided our CARERS (Prison Convents & Schools) with ongoing funds. I have some of the old applications for funds upon CDs. And requests for victim fodder, (us). I believe that this site is more well read, than you think, Martha. If you go to the Article re the Vatican/ Popes refusal to accept Vatican responsibility for Abuse etc, read my comment on Pope Offers Resignation. Martha nil carborrundum, also the fault is not in our stars, but in ourselves that we are underlings. Keep writing Martha. Twisted Oliver.
From the article:-
“They still feel on the outside. They still feel that their circumstances—as diminished, marginal, second class people in Irish society … ”
Outside of what exactly?
With respect to Bruce Arnold (author of this article), I’m sick and tried of hearing the same old mantras: “disadvantaged” “marginalised” etc., applied to Irish Society, as if Irish people, per se, are some sort of united group – a Society, proper.
We Irish are NOT a United group of people. We are a “class-ridden” society whereby our Success and Status is determined by our material wealth and nothing else – thanks to our legacy of being dominated by the Roman Catholic Church.
The fact is, we Irish have not governed ourselves for a very long long time – ever since the British occupied and ruled our country more than 800 years ago. Even today, we are ruled by outside forces. The day we start governing ourselves is the day we can truly cal ourselves an Independent country.
I, for one, don’t expect to see that in my lifetime, nor in my childrens’ lifetime. The Irish, as a people, are too broken in spirit …
And just to finish off: I’ve read some of what Nome De Guerre and Oliver Whelan have written in the comments above, and they say is truly shocking. But of course, their Horror Stories will fall on the deaf ears of MOST Irish people …
Thank you Mr Arnold for drawing our attention to this book: a perfect balance for your own essential Irish Gulag. And thank you Mavis for telling us your story, so sorry you too had to go through such hell.
To mark Easter I invite everyone to open the following link, and wish that the fragrance will spread from ‘cracking’ this 3-year old rotten egg >>>
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/ireland/5353514/Hundreds-of-Irish-Catholic-priests-to-be-implicated-in-child-abuse-report.html
And Brothers & Sisters, all of our writers and silent readers, a little recollection from Artane, 11years of age. While asleep, in my dream, could see my mothers face, clearly. She informed me, that she had been very sick suvived some major surgery. The following afternoon, Michael Roach told me, (unofficially) that he received a message from a relative of mine, that my mother (inEngland) survived major operation. When I eventually located my mother, one of the many things she told me was that bashing upon our family farm Ballavass near Castlederomt, by police Sgt Cody, when she was pregnant, my nose broken in the scuffle, for biting a chunk of flesh from that Pigs offending hand, my enforced removal from her love and care, my susequent sentence, to 14 years imprisonment as I stood upon a chair in the dock of the Carlow Court room. All this, my father fleeing to Belfast, the kidnap of my baby sister, forced into exile. My three much older Brothers on the run, my eldest brother, a local legend, robbed the rich and fed the poor. Some of my family regarded him as a fool for giving away all he stole , to the poor & needy. Later my brothers, escaped to England via Larne in NI. All of the stress from my removal, onwards was obviously the cause. Stolen child, scattered family, a police bashing, kidnapped baby at 24 hours old and eventual exile, would drive any mother, sick with worry, and almost insane. She also recounted, a conversation she had with a Romany (gypsy) whom she used to give food, to feed the Romany children. My mother, being of quite dark complexion, saw these people as kindred spirits. Well, the Romany woman said to my mother, I know you have three strong sons, some years from now, you will have a son that you will hardly know and a daughter, that you will never know. This boy in his very advanced years, will speak out against the Catholic Church and way beyond these years, chase the Vatican hierachy almost to extinction. I just winced when my parent related this story to me. I even knew then how dangerous the militant hand of this cruel Vatican Church was. About one year later, a few influentual English Jewish friends of my family, imparted details of my time in Kilkenny (death of 4 yr old Errol Attlessey) and the death of tbe boy in Artane. I received a heresy charge, that carried a ten year prison term if I entered the Republic. Opus Dei kept a watchful eye on my movements. Our family friends but the heat on the Vatican creeps through agents of Mossad. The Vatican was fortunately for me, anti- yiddish. Later, I gave them hell through my postings to NI and the Middle East. Then about 2002/2003 in England, and at Portpatrick, Scotland, where my eldest son Scott was born, with the Irish coastline in constant view. My past family issues, constantly plauged, tomented me to my very black soul. The hate almost consumed me, realising that I am Irish, and never lived there as a free person. I decided then, that I had to even the score with my murderous persecutors. In 2003/2004 monitored the church situation through the net. In 2005 Redress & some of the Orders tried to prevent me from entering Ireland. So I obtained an Irish passport in Sydney, told my story to Irish Consul in Sydney, Louise Kelley and within hours the doors opened for me to continue my crusade against, these murderers of our kind. Twisted Oliver.
Dear anti- Catholics, lets make a stand against Vatican Sponsored abuse againt our once helpless kind. The can put their meaningless blessings, where an honest monkey, puts its nuts. Yes we will self heal, when these B’s put their heads between their legs, and kiss their own ass. And then get upon their knees, and beg our forgiveness, for the many decades of kidnap, abuse and murder of our kind, crimes against our baby siblings, the illtreatment of our parents and the weaker members of our extended families, for branding us as criminals from the age of two (2) years, recorded in the great Irish Catholic Courts., properly compensate we, YOUR victims. Then if all and only if all of our kind agree, either way, (on account of our hell on earth lives, adjust to normalty) we, our kind will decide your dastardly fates. The Vatican Pty Ltd has no standing, anywhere in the world, and none whatsoever in the next, pay your dues, to us, your victims and get to hell out of our lives, dump your uniforms & hide for your own future safety. Your worldly trinkets could feed the poor of this unfortunate world, mostly of your greedy Churches making, for eons to come. The words Roman Catholic, Church, Vatican, will leave a rotten taste in the mouths of our kinds decendants, for at least three (3) revolutions of Saturn. On behalf of all of our kind. Twisted Oliver.
Dear John Deegan, I have always spoken freely about the brutality we Victims of the Vatican have suffered, through their agent, the Irish Catholic Church. Vicennt Brown & a Kilkenny radio station gave me that opportunity in 2006. The Irish Garda, have also been too complicit in this Religous farce. Their paymasters in my time were none other than the Irish Catholic Church. You see after the murder of Michael Collins, DeValera was the Vaticans choice and his catholic counter reveloution bankrupted the Irish State. The Irish catholic church, bankrolled DeValera Govt, and did exactly what it pleased. The number of kind, victims increased, laws were enacted to Favour our Catholic enslavers, to keep dissenters quietly muzzeled. Yes the Gardai were an important part of the package deal. If all of you are really interested, our stories in detail (re victims) could blow away the Vatican & their agent in Ireland. As children of the Catholic Church, who better than we, to totally shut it down, we have the will, but more importantly, the cause to do so. Keep writing, talking, doing what you do. EVERYONE. For United WE Stand. Oliver love you all.
God bless you all, well done Pauline and great work John Deegan. Pauline, our greatest assets are our children. A time will come when they will write and speak about our kind, Victims of a fraudelant religous system, with their greedy helpers, did use we Victims to gain wealth and power. These fatcat hypocrites, destroyed our family structures, robbed us of our childhood and our precious innocence. Sold our baby siblings at as young a few hours olld, torn from our distraught mothers breasts, to strangers in & from other lands.Falsiified documents for these strangers and destroyed all the records. No woman can maintain their sanity after such an act of outragous, mindless brutality. I have witnessed this, when I was eventually found my parents in Warwickshire, through their forced exile from Ireland. My little sister was but one of probably countless thousands. Pauline, this must never happen again, only total eradication of this disgusting Vatican and the Irish Churches will somewhat ensure, that this can never happen again. Look at the anger and hate we harbour & vent towards our Churchly enslavers. It will several generations to extinguish, our anger towards these Autocracies. Yes we will all get together, soon. Oliver
Hello all . well one thing that keeps me going is future generations.I feel its very important. So when i read the last report i was so very angry that i sent a letter to mr Daidmund martin telling him how disgusted i am about how this question of abuse is being handled. i Told him that i want nothing to do with an organisation that doesnt realise the importance of child protection. I wasent sure that i would get an answer but i did. in the letter it states this . In the past few years a consiserable number of Catholics have wished to make an act of formally defecting from the church. thay have done so for a variety of reasons such as a form of protest against and as a reprehensible events surrounding and including the sexual abuse of children by nuns and priests. While many have left without following a formal process. as the wish to leave the church is to be respected the archdiocese of dublin now maintains a register for those who wish thier de facto defection from the church to be recorded. as a responce to your request your name has now been recorded in this register. i felt very strongly about all this time passing and the Pope as head of the Church avoiding closure. I dont want anything to do with them from now on .
Thank u.
Nome,
I run a small protest group that has now led to a forthcoming meeting with Archbishop Martin in Dublin where we will be calling for many things but amongst those will be that he now goes public and states that all those who were silenced with clauses in the redress board will be free to speak out without fear of penalties.
He will also be called upon to create a WEEK or FORTNIGHT or however long it takes for a time of healing in the Pro Cathedral.
This will not be a religious healing,like the stunt they tried to pull off last February with the footwash/whitewash but one where he and his priests will sit in the cathedral and listen to victims/survivors speak from the pulpit about their abuse.
People like yourself.
If u or anyone you know is interested please contact me on facebook at Anti Catholic Church Activists Worldwide or email me at cliogarvin@hotmail.com
There are THOUSANDS of people out there in Ireland whos voices are being stifled and they MUST be given a platform WITHIN the church ,but free from church influence to speak out their hurt and pain.
These people hide behind their churches and wont listen on the streets or heed the media.
I have taken my protests into the Cathedral and have stopped their masses on TWO occasions and have more disturbances planned on this and other issues.
The victims/survivors MUST and WILL get a platform within the church to speak and address the congregations.
Thank u all.
~And thank u Paddy Doyle for all you do.
Dear Bruce Arnold, just a little recollection from St Pats, Sisters of Charity Convent,Kilkenny. 1947 Summer. Iwas on my way down to the poultry farm to help with collecting eggs, on passing the Infirmary, the upper floor in the building opposite the orchard, a strange voice beckoned to me, it was that of a north American, on retreat, with a smattering of Gaelic, of which I was fluent. She offered me a bacon & egg sandwich, confused, I momentarily stalled. By this time a few other inmates, who were bound for the egg collection, stopped to see this strange Nun. However, she dropped the sanwich to me, suddenly a scuffle broke amongst us 4 year olds. My piece of this was bread, egg, a tiny morsel of bacon and a lot of dirt, of course with a little brown sauce. It was the tastiest bit of food ever in the Covent. For all the eggs collected, never got one in my 7 years there. Oliver
Dear Brothers and Sisters, readers, writers, we in our lifetimes have seen empires crumble, some of us Vatican Victims and other denoninational victims, traversed an Empire where the sun never set. Corporates come and go, fuelled by greed, the self destruct. In the same Vatican Pty Limited, will fade, unable to rejuvenate its aged conspiritors, it will whore itself to an Asiatic Confederacy & make scandelous promises, to mislead the already misled. When this Confederacy sees the “faithful” flee in droves, the main wealth, which means power (to Asitic Triad). The assets are usurped by the various States(even Ireland) In anger the Asiatics rip the Papacy to shreds, destroy Rome and the ruins of the Vatican, will shelter livestock and usable outbuildings, set to profane uses. The Papacy on the run, passes through an Autobahn tunnel, taken captive in France, allowed to escape, and then gunned down, at Lyon falls dead the slippered Pope. Let us make Hay whilst the Sun shines. Even now, the Vatican has replaced its strongarm tactics, due to the lack of muscle, lies and total denial. Sure, we as infants concocted these stories. The more we can collectively speak, write anything that is relevant to our cause, as most Victims have stated, that these various reports, have included what victims actually witnessed, or experienced in the Prison Schools. A total WHITEWASH of the facts. None of the Redress Legals were interested in the facts, only their Remuneration. Apparently, a quick entry and an even quicker Exit. Reducing the billable hours to the State and thus trying to justify a KISSASS pittance paid by the Irish Catholic Church. We paid in blood for their luxury and Assets. Now that their flesh is weak, let us reclaim the stones the attained, by we the Victims, blood, sweat in Slavery & tears. Oliver
Dear Nome de Guerre, and Mr Arnold for initiating this forum re Catholic Church Victims. The Sisters of the Poor article conditions were quite common amongst Convent (prisons) poor diet, desease, vermin plagues, body lice, resulting in body sores. Almost total lack of hygene, no tooth maintenance or proper dental, or medical care. Resulting in Epidemics, with dormitories full of sick children, left unattended. And survivors were told, that “it was all the will of God”. When I constantly wet my bed, about 10 o’ clock at night, I do recall upon each occassion that it was not God who told me that I had to stand by my wet mattress holding my soiled sheets in my hands until six (6am) the following morn. It was Sister Camilleisus, & this continued for over a year until I secumbed to serious illness. This problem continued until I left Artane. My friend, your experiences in Salthill match what I saw in Artane. Although, the victims of severe (2 of) talked about jumping off the top of the main building. However, a few of us disuaded them. Another victim pursued by his abuser, jumped into a stairwell, smashing his head upon the steel at the bottom of the stairs to the Great Hall. He lay upon the stone floor, as a few of us watched him bleed to death. Then Bro OC Told the senior boy to call the Gardai (police). I was beaten almost to death in a first floor Dorm bathroom, for refusing to have sex with Bro T.M. I was on the run in the farm fields for over four hours. It took six men to corner me, two Bros McC & T.M took turns in beating me with 25mm thick leather straps, laden with door keys. Unable to walk or talk and severe cuts, bruises to most of my face & body, spent over two weeks in bed. Next to my bed was ashen faced Michael Connelly (12yrs of age) huge cysts under arms and though gravely ill, never saw anyone attend him. Luckily, for me, within a few months was back in fighting shape. Secretly took boxing lessons from one of older school boxers, by 13 yrs of age, polished off two of the much older school bullies. Yes, in Artane the body lice was appalling, hygene poor, food scarce, work was excessive, rampant illness, lots of public beatings, by our jailors with hurling sticks, bound in nailed metal straps. There was no shortage of food for Bros kitchen or for the Lay staff, who also received a wage for their services. For their silence, they kept their jobs. They were allowed to treat us as however they pleased. A minority illtreated the boys in their care.Well my friend, you can be assured, that all of us, both readers & writers upon this site will eagerly await your next Salthill instalment. Salthill & Letterfrach, were very much debated by a lot of Artane inmates, during my six & half year captivity there. We hope to hear from you soon. Oliver
Thank you Mr Arnold. When I look at Ireland today and having lived abroad on the European mainland since I left Salthill Industrial School run by the Irish christian Brothers I wonder would Ireland have been better of by remaining part of the United Kingdom. What exactly has been achieved by our so called” Republic”. It was a church state ,a Roman colony and little else.Yes I remember the beatings administered by Brothers B and S and L. In fact one of the beatings in the washroom was so severe that I still receive e-mails about it 50 years later from around the globe. Holy Ireland was little more than a cash machine for the RC , yes we starved, yes we were beaten by grown well fed young men with heavy well sewn double layered leathers and when that did not suffice the fist and boot came in to play. Yes we were taken out of the dormitories to a secluded place at night and raped. Do you know what that looks like Bruce?, it is the picture of a 12 year old boy running terrified with blood running down his legs. That same boy took his life with the help of an electric heater in a water filled bath tub, but not before he could tell “why”. Yes we were terrified of the nocturnal visits by brothers hoping we were not on the list of preferred objects. I myself was selected one night and that selection turned me into a person that I did not recognize. It changed me over night and threw me into a world of utter confusion. As we get older we are beginning to talk of our lives in the industrial schools of Ireland. Bruce we have stories not ever told , that never appeared in the Ryan Report, Those stories beg to be told. One picture that has stayed with me is that of the school doctor who casually threw his muddy riding boots to a boy to be washed and repaired by a starving 13 year old boy in the cobblers shop. No effort was spared until they were as good as new. They were to be ready by friday as the good doctor had a hunting party on saturday. This so called doctor knew what the boys were going through. He never intervened. When I look back at the adults who surrounded us I understand how Aushwich and Treblinka was possible.