Follow-Up to Ryan Report
Meeting with Representatives of Survivor Groups/Former Residents.
15 April 2010
1. The Taoiseach, accompanied by the Tánaiste and Minister for Education and Skills, the Ministers for Health and Children and Justice and Equality and Law Reform, the Minister of State for Children and Youth Affairs and senior Departmental officials, met 19 representatives from 10 organisations representing survivor/former residents at Government Buildings on 15 April 2010. A list of the representatives and their organisations is attached. The meeting lasted approximately from 5.45pm to 9.15 pm.
2. In his opening remarks the Taoiseach thanked the organisations’ representatives for accepting his invitation to the meeting and went on to make the following points.
· Since the then Taoiseach’s apology in May 1999 the State has put a range of measures in place in response to child abuse in residential institutes. The Commission to Inquire into Child Abuse was established to establish a comprehensive view of the causes, nature and extent of abuse and to report on its findings and recommendations. An independent Redress Scheme was established to provide fair and reasonable awards to victims of childhood abuse. A National Counselling Service was set up to help victims cope with their experiences, together with a family tracing service to assist former residents trace their families of origin. Educational services were provided for former residents and their families, and funding was provided for support groups. These responses had been comprehensive, compassionate and as user-friendly as possible. The taxpayer has met, and continues to meet, almost all of the costs involved.
· The publication of the Ryan Report meant that for the first time an independent Commission had undertaken a detailed examination of the residential institutions and identified the failures of all involved, including the State.
· The Ryan Report had set out a series of recommendations and the Government had published a detailed Implementation Plan last summer to implement them.
· The Ryan Report had vindicated the Government’s decision to establish the Residential Institutions Redress Board to compensate survivors without their having to go through the Courts. Being an ex-gratia scheme, involving no finding of fault or declaration of liability, the Redress Scheme requires a much lower burden of proof than would have been required in Court.
· The Redress Board had commenced making awards in May 2003. Wholly independent in the performance of its functions, over the last seven years it has dealt with over 13,800 cases, resulting in over 13,000 awards being accepted by applicants. It has some 800 applications to process and continues to accept late applications in exceptional circumstances. It is expected that the Board will complete its work within the next year or so.
· The Government has considered a range of demands for the Redress Scheme to be extended and for awards made to be reviewed. However, it is not possible for the Government to second-guess the independent Board and associated appeals process to the Review Committee. There is provision for late applications and the Board continues to process such requests. The Government is satisfied that the arrangements put in place have benefited survivors and does not propose to revise the arrangements.
· The final cost of the response to residential institutional abuse is estimated to reach €1.36 billion. While the main cost is from the Redress Scheme, others include the cost of the Commission to Inquire into Child Abuse and the Education Finance Board.
·
The Government and Dáil Éireann last year called on the Religious Congregations to make further substantial contributions by way of reparation. The Government envisaged this contribution being available not just for public purposes but as a priority for funding necessary services to victims, including some form of independent trust or fund which would be available to support education and welfare purposes. To facilitate public assessment of the Congregations’ contributions in the context of their resources, the Government had appointed an Independent Panel to assess the statements of resources to be provided by the Congregations.
· The Panel’s Report was received in late November and shortly afterwards a full set of responses from the Congregations was received. The Panel concluded that the statements of resources provided by the Congregations give a complete and reasonable view of their overall financial situation, and that the assets, liabilities and commitments are fairly stated.
· The Panel’s Report and the responses of the Congregations would be published by the Government after today’s meeting and copies were available for everyone present.
· The offers of contributions from the Congregations, taken together, were valued by the Congregations at €348.5 million, of which some €110 million is cash to be provided over a number of years. The balance consists of €235.5 million in property and €2 million by way of rent waiver on a property.
· This was a very significant amount. However, some of the offers involve complex property proposals which will require detailed discussions with the Congregations to enable the State to adopt a definitive position in relation to them.
·
The Government intends that the €110 million cash element of the offers will be used to establish a Statutory Fund to support the needs of survivors for general education and welfare purposes as envisaged in the motion adopted by Dáil Éireann last June. The exact nature of the Fund, how it would operate and the uses to which it might be put will be addressed in consultation both with the victims’ representatives and with the Congregations. Following this consultation, the arrangements will be considered by the Government. Legislation will be needed to establish the Fund.
· In the light of the stark findings of the Ryan Report, the overall costs being incurred in the response to residential institutional abuse and the resources available to the Congregations as outlined in the resource summaries in the Panel Report, the Government considers that the ultimate outcome should be that the State and the Congregations would share the final costs on a 50:50 basis.
· While the Government acknowledge that the bulk of the Congregations’ assets are property that is in use for social services or residences, or where use is restricted in some other way, the Government believe that a 50:50 contribution from the Congregations, while challenging, would be fair, reasonable and achievable over time. The Government had met the Congregations earlier today and had proposed to them that they engage in a process to establish how, over time, that outcome can be achieved. The Government intends that any cash received in the additional contribution to reach a 50% share of the overall costs, will be used as a contribution to the planned National Children’s Hospital.
3. The Taoiseach then invited each group represented to respond.
4. Tom Hayes, Alliance, said there was a lack of accountability and transparency from Government and Government Agencies such as the Redress Unit. Because of these issues, Members of Alliance could not support a Fund run by the Government. The issues were:
– Some survivor groups were overfunded, had salaried staff, etc.
– no answers had been received as to the audited accounts of the ad-hoc Education Fund from 1997.
– no action had been taken as a result of the Report into the Outreach Services in England, which says that many survivors will not use these Centres because of their religious connections.
– no action had been taken vis-à-vis Right of Place in Cork or the Aislinn Centre in Dublin to regulate their funding. The Alliance wanted an investigation into the activities of Right of Place in Cork and the HSE’s handling of what is going on there.
– Funding to groups had been a contentious issue and one that must be addressed now. The Alliance “expenses” amount from the Department of Education and Science for 2010 amounts to only €6,000, which was simply not sufficient, despite the fact that the Committee had complied as far as it could with all requests from the Redress Unit. Alliance Accounts continue to be audited annually with copies sent to the Department of Education and Science and the Redress Unit. Expenses are always based on the previous year’s activities, as are this year’s requests.
– The Department of Education and Science only funded individuals who were willing to support Department policies, and while it gave the impression that it was engaging with other survivor groups, it never took their concerns on board. Also, it consistently used funded individuals to create the public perception that those individuals spoke on behalf of the majority of survivors.
– Alliance had always recognised that there would be no more money for Redress. If there was to be a Fund, it was not education and counselling services that were needed now: victims’ needs had changed.
John Kelly, Irish SOCA said he was deeply disappointed that prosecutions of individuals guilty of abuse in institutions had not happened. Irish SOCA was very concerned re the protection of the children of today and improving their lot. He considered ABA schools for autistic children should be helped, and mentioned his own child, who requires help with daily needs. He doubted whether the State would in fact obtain a 50:50 contribution from the religious Congregations. He also questioned how the State would manage to liquidate the school playing fields offered by the Christian Brothers and indeed the properties offered generally, and suggested that the Congregations be invited into a buy-back scheme for the properties, an idea about which he said he had spoken to the bishops.
As regards the Department of Education and Science, it had tried to limit each group to two representatives at today’s meeting but had then invited several extra groups, including two politicians – one a UK Labour party Councillor – and a salaried person. The Department would not give Irish SOCA a penny in funding. Later during the meeting, Mr Kelly said that he had no confidence in the Redress Unit of the Department. The Taoiseach rejected this view of the Unit.
Marie Seo, also Irish SOCA, said that the consensus at Irish SOCA meetings had been against a Fund and that the Government should give the victims the money and let them look after themselves. She said that discussions on the proposed memorial should be stopped until the contributions from the religious congregations are sorted out and that they wanted the State to consult with the church regarding redress for the Magdalene women. Cardinal Brady was very supportive of the women that were placed in the laundries. She wanted to know how soon the discussions about the Fund would start.
Gerard Lyons and Sean Leonard, Justice and Healing for Institutional Abuse said their Group questioned why the State was defending defenders in abuse trials and criticised the redress process. They felt that the State had taken advantage of people and shafted the victims. Also, there is no 50/50 contribution split as the State was 100% negligent and the religious congregations were 100% guilty of abusing them. They wanted no Fund and the playing fields being offered by the religious congregations had already been paid for by the local communities. The apology rang hollow, there is nothing for them in the present offer and the State did not and does not care. They had not got proper awards and only few people had got awards equivalent to High Court. Finally, it was disingenuous to expect them to read all the documents being released today.
Michael O’Brien, Right to Peace said the Government was afraid to take on the religious and noted that Cardinal Brady had not been approached for a contribution from the bishops. In removing the social welfare Christmas bonus, the Government had removed it from victims. The Government would not put him into a home. He held up the Court document referring to him when he was being put into an institution as a child and said he wanted it corrected. He complained that Redress Board awards had been reduced when appealed and said he would bring taxpayers out to march for victims again as had been done last year. His organisation wanted no Trust Find, and he accused the Government of not caring for the victims and hoping they would die off. He noted that staff are paid out of the Education Fund. He also criticised the payment of money to groups. He wanted the bishops, religious, the government and victims’ representatives all brought together. He said there were victims dying in the streets in the UK and that victims are the most vulnerable people in the country.
Mr O’Brien ended by saying that he had shortly to go into hospital for a heart operation and this plus his recovery would take some three weeks, but after that he would go on hunger strike for victims’ rights. He then walked out of the meeting.
Christopher Heaphey, also of Right to Peace, said that the Government, the Church and the Religious Orders were all equally culpable for the crimes committed against victims. On top of this, the Government had entered into an indemnity deal with the Congregations for €128 million, or some €8,500 per victim. The deal was grotesquely wrong. The survivors had never been consulted about it. To add insult to injury, it was decided that €12.7 million would go to educate victims, but only 23% of survivors avail of the Education Fund. A further €10 million was set aside to give victims counselling but survivors did not want the Congregations to pay for their counselling. It was unclear where the balance of the €128 million had gone.
Also, the Redress Scheme had included, without victims’ understanding or consent, a waiver that gave the Congregations a get-out clause for the crimes they had committed. Unless victims signed that waiver, they got no redress. Few survivors who signed it understand or understood its implications.
The Government should take the necessary money from the Congregations and give it to the victims, €60,000 each.
Tom Cronin, Irish Survivors of Institutional Abuse, noted that the victims’ groups would have no say re the property in the congregations’ offers, and so were left with the €110m cash offer. After last year’s meeting, there had been a terrible backlash from survivors, who argued that the representatives had had no standing to do a deal for 15,000 people, so the present offer was not going to be helpful. Very few people had got big awards from the Redress Board and many were in the 0- €50,000 bracket.
He felt that the Education Finance Board was too restrictive and should be broadened.
Finally, he wanted to know whether the money in the proposed Fund was for successful applicants, their spouses, children etc, and how the criteria would be met.
Paul Cronin, also Irish Survivors of Institutional Abuse, said it was a pity that they hadn’t got the reports of the assets of the religious congregations in advance of the meeting. He had suggested that the idea of pensions for former residents should be considered but wasn’t disappointed as he had felt the Government’s mind was made up.
Carmel McDonnell Byrne from Aislinn, responding to criticism of groups made by earlier speakers, said that neither she nor Christine Buckley receives a salary. Aislinn’s funding from the State goes on heat, stationery, etc. Aislinn has two paid staff, of whom neither is a survivor. Christine Buckley had got a salary for four years out of twenty-six. She went on to make the following points:
-Aislinn very much welcomed the Fund proposal and the Memorial proposal.
– Aislinn wanted all late applications to the Redress Board to be allowed. Also, the Redress Scheme should be extended to the Magdalene women.
– the Redress Board hearings had been very adversarial and the requirement that a victim must not reveal information about their award was very undesirable.
– solicitors should have been, but had not been, prosecuted for double-charging
-Aislinn wanted to be involved in negotiations with the religious congregations
– despite what had been said earlier, education and counselling services were very important to the people who call to the Aislinn Centre.
Christine Buckley, Aislinn, thanked the Taoiseach and Ministers for listening. She was in total agreement with the Fund proposal. She was glad that the Congregations had been called in to contribute to the cost of redress. She said the Redress Board hearings were very adversarial, to judge from the experiences of the people Aislinn had accompanied to the Board, and she referred to ongoing research into related suicides. There should be a review of the Redress Board, with every case looked at – perhaps by an independent panel, as she knew from MoS Andrews that for legal reasons a review would be very difficult. She considered the proposed Fund a very important step forward. Also, education was very important: thanks to it, in her view, Aislinn had not been in Court with any clients for the past three years and she suggested a Director of Counselling be seconded to help the Education Finance Board. As to counselling, people were waiting for it, and the proposed Trust Fund should help with this. She too felt that the Magdalen women should be covered by redress.
Finally, she said that Aislinn wanted to be able to visit victims in prison but had been refused [Minister Ahern responded that he would have this looked into] and that she supported the idea of a Memorial. A Memorial was not about those who had been in the institutions in the past, as that was over and one with, but it was very important in relation to children who were in care now, and also for abusers to see the memorial in place.
Here the Taoiseach pointed out that the question of Magdalene women was not part of the present discussion, which was about people who had been abused as children in residential institutions, and the position of Magdalene women was no analogous with that. In relation to women who had been in Magdalene laundries, the relevant Departments will help individuals with information where they can, but it was not part of today’s discussion.
Frank Traynor (Right of Place) said the Ryan Report had enabled victims to be known as survivors, and no longer to be embarrassed about their past. Obviously, there was anger and distrust both among groups and with the Government, and it would not be right to dismiss that anger. Survivor groups could benefit from professional liaison group to work with them to figure out what survivors want. He was not a spokesperson for Right of Place but wanted to say that he had no issue with the governance of Right of Place.
Funding for the survivor groups was important: the groups are undervalued and underfunded. A report on the groups, how they are structured, who they represent, so as to give them respect for what they do, would be a good idea.
As regards the proposed Fund, survivor groups need to find out if its the only show in town. It was important that the Government make that clear, because some people think there’s another windfall coming their way. If there is to be no windfall, the Government should clear that up, so that people can focus on victims’ real needs.
Noel Barry, Right of Place said the State couldn’t do everything. His group would like to see the Magdalen women qualify for Redress. Also, the legal profession should be removed from the process. Solicitors deserved their fees but not the barristers, and they should be excluded. As regards the proposed Memorial, its purpose is to remind future generations about Ireland not being an island of Saints and Scholars, and it is very important.
Andrew Brennan, SOCA UK thanked the Government for their efforts. He said he found it hard to separate Magdalenes from the victims’ situation. His mother was in a Magdalen, and his family had then been put into an institution.
Michael Waters, SOCA UK thanked the Taoiseach for his invitation. He wanted to wish Michael O’Brien well. He felt the SOCA Centre in Camden Town did a good job. Returning to 3 June last, he said that there was an expectation of further substantial financial contribution from the religious and that this offer will not be welcomed by many survivors.
He raised the possibility of a ballot among all survivors (using the Redress Board list), to see what they wanted done about the offer, because, he suggested, the people in the room today represented only a small number of survivors.
Quality care for today’s children with disabilities was very important. Three hostels for children recently closed in Dublin, he said, and he couldn’t find what alternative has been put in place. Had any lessons been learnt?
Also, the situation in the UK should be considered: many survivors were living rough etc, and the Redress Board awards had not changed their lives. He instanced the suicide of a person who had been in contact with him. It was crucial to be able to support victims. Money wouldn’t solve the problem.
Phyllis Morgan of the Outreach Centre, London said the Centre always helped all who came through its doors.
Sally Mulready said she was the Local Councillor in London that had been referred to earlier. She had a number of questions:
– the Trust Fund: Would there be an opportunity to contribute on the Legislation? What was the timetable? It would be useful to get down to detail quickly.
– 32%, or some 4800 people, at the Redress Board were from the UK and they should have a voice.
– how would the Fund be administered? Public finance skills would be necessary.
She also said that the Education Finance Board was a good idea – but there was a problem with take-up and greater promotion and advertising were necessary. Also, it would be useful to widen the criteria for it so that group applications can be made. She would consult with UK survivors and revert. Finally, she echoed the point already made re windfalls – tonight’s meeting would put an end to that speculation.
Paddy Doyle said he was not representing any group but felt tremendous sadness at the end of the meeting, for two reasons. First, the real issue was being lost sight of. Money hadn’t so far sorted out much for people and it was time to move away from how much victims were going to get. Rumours that each victim was going to get €300,000 were ridiculous nonsense. To do so would cost well over € 5 billion and it was time those rumours were put a stop to: people were even trying to borrow on the strength of such a windfall. He was also sad at the evident tensions between groups claiming to represent survivors, and reports of those tensions were getting into the media. Groups should come to their senses and stop tearing each other apart. There was a need to work together. He had accepted an invitation to join the Committee about the proposed Memorial and he had also served as a member of the government-appointed Commission on the Status of People with Disabilities.
Services for people who had a disability because of what happened them in care were equally important. As regards the Education Finance Board, he hadn’t bothered to apply to it, because of the form-filling required: instead of requiring forms to be filled up, the EFB should simply check whether the applicant had been before the Redress Board, and if so, entitlement under the EFB would be automatic. Finally, he said, people should stop ringing Department of Education and Science staff dealing with victims and being abusive to them. He also mentioned that he had picketed the current play in the Peacock Theatre because of lack of disabled access.
The Taoiseach had responded at a number of stages during the meeting to points and questions raised by various speakers. At the end he spoke again, at length. Following is a summary of the points he made;
– he had listened to all the contributions, which often differed in approach but were
candid and sincere, and he acknowledged the hurt suffered. For former residents it was clear that supports, avoiding isolation etc through survivor groups was important.
– The Redress Scheme had been an appropriate response by the Government to the situation that had faced victims. Before the Redress Scheme was set up, only a very small proportion of the cases for damages being taken by victims through the Courts system against members of religious congregations were successful. There were important reasons for this, including the length of time that had passed since the alleged abuse occurred and therefore difficulty of gathering evidence, and the Constitutional right of every person to defend their good name. The adversarial nature of the Courts system, especially when someone was being accused of a heinous crime, was also relevant.
– the Redress Scheme had got around these difficulties by greatly lowering the burden of evidence before someone could receive an award. Also, the Redress Board could and did make offers without a hearing and the great majority of the 13,000 or so applicants who had got awards – some 78.5% – had got them on that basis, without having to go to a hearing at all.
– While acknowledging that no scheme could remove all injuries suffered, the facts spoke for themselves and without the scheme many would have not got any award. The scheme of awards had been laid down by the Judge, the finances available to the scheme had not been capped and the scheme operated independently of Government. The Government did not propose to review or amend it. The Commission offered people the opportunity to tell their stories and former residents had eloquently told of their experiences.
– In the light of the Ryan Report the Government and the Dáil had called on the congregations for a further contribution. The congregations came forward with further contributions. The independent Panel reported on the financial assets. The Government had carefully considered the matter and its view, which he said is shared by the Dáil generally, is that the costs should be borne on a 50:50 basis by the Congregations and the Government. The mechanism to achieve this split by further contributions from the Congregations over time will be pursued, with any further contributions being for State use.
– The proposed Fund is intended to address ongoing needs of former residents to cope. As the cash contributions become available it is proposed to put the €110m into a Fund to benefit survivors/former residents, with the properties offered – to the extent it is suitable – going towards the State’s costs of redress. It was important for everyone to move on to the next stage. There will be a process of engagement with survivors’ representatives regarding the Fund and he will be asking the relevant Ministers to progress matters.
I’m approving the comment even though I’m not sure what you mean. I’d be grateful for clarification. Paddy.
Sally, Bethany House wasn’t that a home for women having babies the difference is, that was a home >nasty Evil as it might have been they were grown ups that was totally different to Industrial Schools, WHICH were BRUTAL REFORMATORIES (PRISONS)for babies and young children who were sentenced to detention and charged by the court from the age of O to 16 years which was most or all of their childhood years THOSE SENTENCED INTO THOSE EVIL PLACES HAVE BEEN TREATED BADLY AND BULLIED JUST BECAUSE THEY TRIED TO GET JUSTICE AND ARE STILL BEEN USED AND BULLIED .all cases are different and should be treated as such.Survivors have been frightened into silence by those the last government indulged by was of posh offices and huge perks falsely claiming to represent survivors Big Question why do they refuse to show what names of survivors they say represent on their books that they have been and are still claiming funding and expenses plus huge perks for< that has to stop , All those who received funding ie, Aislinn , Soca uk, Right of Place, must be brought to book ,every Euro they received over the many years must be accounted for all books gone through with a fine tooth comb.if they refuse to have all books inspected nor be willing to hand them over for inspection then those places MUST BE CLOSED STRAIGHT AWAY. Thank you Paddy for this amazing site where survivors can feel we can speak freely what’s on our minds ,we all deserve to be compensated we were put through so much as children how any of us survived is a miracle .
HOW MUCH LONGER MUST WE HAVE TO PUT UP WITH THESE
GANGSTERS IN ROP,I DONT KNOW OF ANYONE WHO GOT
ANY HELP FROM THEM JUST LIES GIBBERISH AND BULLS!!!T
THE ONLY WAY TO GET RID OF THEM IS EVERYONE MARCH
ON THE PLACE AND GET THEM OUT WE HAVE BEEN TO QUITE.ENOUGH IS ENOUGH WE HAVE SUFFERED ENOUGH WITH THEIR BULLYING AND LIES GET THEM OUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Thanks for this information. Well there is no buisness like charity buisness. The whole thing from the beginning was very dodgy because these groups were blindly trusted to take part in the healing process of thousands of fragil people who had been severly damaged.Who gave them the right to judge our state of mind and body. Where did thay learn this very delicate speciality.And because of the numbers of the victims it was impossable to take part in all our lives . and we dont need anyone telling us that thay can heal the scars we all have. And the survivers who run these groups are also damaged. it should be stoped but it appears that the government are deaf and blind to whats obvious. this makes the whole thing very frustrating for us all . its another form of torture
Controversial abuse charity expands offices
By Jennifer Hough
MONDAY, FEBRUARY 07, 2011
A CONTROVERSIAL government-funded charity for survivors of institutional abuse is set to open offices in Galway, Waterford, Limerick and Cork, according to a newsletter published by its new board of directors.
Right of Place in Cork will continue to be funded despite claims that government money — and money donated by religious orders and bishops — was not filtering down to members.
Concerns have been raised continuously over the past 12 months by members, other survivor groups and opposition politicians.
Right of Place has been funded to the tune of at least €2.4 million by the HSE since 2002, with a further €1m coming from the Department of Education.
A large portion of this money was spent on wages and expenses. At one stage the charity had 18 staff, including cooks and security personnel.
However, there is no known record of how hundreds of thousands of euro donated by dioceses and religious orders, such as the Rosminians, was spent and the amounts were never recorded in audited accounts.
Late last year a new treasurer, Tom Brennan, said he could find no “record or evidence” of how anyone except a select inner circle benefited from the charity over a 10-year period.
Shortly after his appointment to the new board of directors, Mr Brennan resigned as he said he could not get answers to the questions he was asking.
However, in a recent newsletter to its members, Right of Place says Mr Brennan stepped down for “personal reasons”.
“I would like to make it very clear I did not step down for personal reasons,” he told the Irish Examiner. “This is more of the bluff and bluster from the new board and I want to put the record straight.”
The newsletter also attacks the Irish Examiner for “pursuing agendas” which it says have caused pain and hardship to survivors.
Ironically, the newsletter offers VEC computer courses, despite the fact that the Right of Place website was discontinued in recent months.
Meanwhile, the Irish Examiner has been contacted by several people who say they never signed up to be members of Right of Place but somehow ended up on the organisation’s database.
A Magdalene survivor in her 70s, living in the US, requested to be taken off the database in 2009 but got no reply and still receives correspondence.
The woman says she never signed up to be a member of Right of Place and the only person she gave her details to was a solicitor travelling in the US with the charity’s founder Noel Barry.
The woman said her concern was that someone had given her private and confidential information to the organisation without her permission.
Right of Place claims to have 1,500 members and has been funded accordingly.
Former treasurer Mr Brennan said he asked to see a database of survivors on several occasions but said he was never given access to it.
This appeared in the printed version of the Irish Examiner Monday, February 07, 2011
Dear Survivor,
The Christmas newsletter from the ‘Privately Owned Company’ , “Right of Place Buildings Project Limited” , ( Not Renamed: “Right of Place Second Chance Limited ” ), tells us only part of the truth.
Those of us who have fought for accountability within the “Privately Owned Company”; that was pretending to be, a “Self Help Organisation of Survivors, For Survivors” .
Must, once again inform you of the facts.
Yes, a new Board of Directors was Elected/Appointed by some of the members and, with the blessing of the HSE.
Upon appointment to the Board, Mr. Michael Walsh took up the Chairmanship.
This is the same Mr. Michael Walsh, who was appointed by the Hse on-to ( The ‘Steering Group’; ) that was to oversee, true democracy and integrity ( i.e. lack of corruption ), in the election process of the New Board of Directors.
Congratulations Michael; you got yourself elected Chairman, of the Board of Directors of the Privately Owned Company, ‘Right of Place Buildings Project Limited’.
The other members elected to the new Board of Directors are:
Mr Patrick Cleasy Director/Secretary
Mr Thomas W Brennan Director/Treasurer
Mr Thomas Wall Director/PRO
Mr Martin Duffy Director/Public Liaison Officer.
As we all know, the positions of Secretary and Treasurer on the Board of Directors of any company, carry with it, great responsibility.
These two positions, above all others, require persons of high caliber and integrity.
In trying to achieve Full Financial Accountability and Full Support for Survivors, the Treasurer and Secretary were left with no option but, to resign from the new board.
The Chairman of The Board, ( Did Not ) support his Treasurer and Secretary, on issues of accountability and governance.
Instead of supporting his new board members, the Chairman allowed himself to be influenced, or swayed, by Mr. Noel C. Barry; plus, he sought the council of members outside the board.
The only thing achieved by holding Phony elections, was to replace one Dictator, Mr. Noel C. Barry, with another, Mr. Michael Walsh.
The Chairman obviously had no trust, in the board members who appointed him.
There never was, nor will there be, any honest, truthful, explanation as to why his Treasurer and Secretary resigned.
Mr Walsh, Please explain if you would be so kind. I know all Survivors would like an explanation from you.
Now the Chairman is going to ‘Co-opt’ two new directors, on-to the board; as stated in his Christmas Newsletter.
Within company law, he is of course, fully entitled to do this.
After all, it is, a ( “Private Owned Limited Company” ) funded by the Hse and, Mr Michael Walsh is the Chairman of the Board; just like Mr. Noel C. Barry was.
I would like to inform all Survivors, who believe that they are members of a self help group of survivors, run by survivors, for survivors, ( That, This, is Not True. )
Your names are being used by a Limited Company called, “Right of Place Buildings Project Limited, disguised, as a self help group for survivors”; to obtain funding on your behalf.
On the 14th of November 2009 at the Metrapole Hotel Cork; an overwhelming majority of Survivors, voted on a Constitution, for a “Self Help Group of Survivors”, called, “Right of Place/Second Chance”.
The Constitution, gave Rights to its membership.
Especially those, who wished to be associated with a,
“Self Help Group of Survivors”, “ Run by Survivors” , “For Survivors”.
Thirteen months later, the HSE, and the new Board of Directors of the Privately Owned Company; “Right of Place Buildings Limited” , have replaced one dictator with another.
All done legally, within ‘company law’.
Once again you and I have “NO SAY WHATSOEVER”.
The Cork and Kerry branches of the company no longer exist.
The chairman will pick his board of directors and you and I cannot stop him, ‘under company law’.
He could not do this, if the members had a Constitution, which prevented it.
Board members “should be elected and not appointed”; because they are the ones “we choose” to represent us.
The only course open to you and I, is to inform the company,
“Right of Place Buildings Limited”, that you want, and Demand, your name taken off their database.
With no membership, Funding Ceases. Then we will see how many True Volunteers exist, and, are not in it, just for the money.
We can then go forward as a self help group of survivors, run by survivors, for the benefit of survivors, With a Constitution.
Thank you for your help, in trying to get honest representation and support for survivors.
I AM A SURVIVOR AND MY 3 BROTHERS WHY DID WE GET 4 DIFFERENT AMOUNTS OF CLAIMS I GOT THE LEAST 33 000 EUROS CONSIDERING I SPENT 9 YEARS 2YRS IN RATHDRUM 7YRS IN ARTANE 1951 TO 1960 WITH A PRIMARY Education AND I DONT THINK I WAS COMPENSATED FAIRLY BUT WHAT I GOT IS GONE ON MY FAMILY THE MONEY IS BUT THE SCARS OF MY childhood is not gone THE IRISH GOVERMENT HAVE TO ANSWER FOR ALL SURVIVORS OF SUCH ATROCITIES I CANT CLAIM MORE BECAUSE MY SOLICITOR SAY I WAVERED MY RIGHT
Very well said Paul.
Mr Walsh you mentioned that the monies unaccounted
for in r.o.p.is the resonsibility of the old regime.As far as i know the new leadership took over the responsibility of r.o.p.So it is up to M Walsh now to give the answers and explations.As he accepted the leadership he is totaly responsibile.
All we get is talk talk talk and no action,If he intends to sort things out he should do something about it,instead of giving is the usual bullshit over and over again.
So Mr Walsh more action less bullshit
Micheal,
Everybody wants a properly run Survivor group. There is no question about that whatsoever. Including myself. But if you knew about, or saw the way, the ( So Called Elections ) to elect a new Board of Directors, were conducted, I’m sure your Point of view would be so much different.
I have no problem supporting any ( PROPERLY & DEMOCRATICALLY ) elected group to run Right of Place. Other Survivors, and including myself offered on numerous occasions to assist the old Regime in Right of Place to fulfil tasks, and other assignments that they may have needed help with. Unfortunately you seen what happened to that Regime, and no doubt there will be a lot of questions, and answers, arising from that in the near future.
I questioned who you were, as i was having discussions with one ( Mr Michael Walsh ) the newly (So Called Elected Leader of Right of Place) and after my last posting, which i am sure you have read, i assumed it was the same person writing again on the site replying to my posting, but writing his first name in Irish, to try and confuse me, and let on it was someone else, rather than himself.
So, if i have offended you in any way, i deeply apologise, and i can assure you, ( IT WAS NOT MY INTENTION )
I am not going to go into big detail at this point regarding the elections that took place earlier in the year, or indeed the way they were run,, but believe me, they were a total disgrace, as i am sure anyone that attended them will be able to clarify.
I would love to assist any Survivor group, But as far as Right of Place is concerned, and the people who run it. There is a very big question mark hanging over it, and no doubt, the people who run those Offices on Lower Glanmire Road know only too well where i am coming from, that is why I withdrew my support and details from there.
The way I see it, Michael, I do (Not ) look on anybody in that place in Lower Glanmire Road, to be Legally and Rightfully elected to the positions they hold, Regardless of how much they want to try and change anything.
I have asked Mr Walsh, and Mr Noel C Barry, on numerous occasions over the past couple of years to assure us, as Survivors, that everything that was happening in Right of Place was honest and above board, and that all the events splashed all over the Media was untrue. Alas, all we got was SILENCE, and we were Totally Ignored.
I think as Survivors, we all have the right to ask questions of what is being done in our names. Would you not agree? I don’t think it is too much to ask.
But i will not be silenced, or shut up by someone who may think i know too much for my own liking. No Sir, that is when i will dig my heels in. I put up with that carry on in Industrial Schools for nearly 15 years, and i have my fill of it, i can assure you. Enough is Enough.
All i will say is, during those ( SO CALLED ELECTIONS ) the will of the people were in NO WAY listened to, or Respected, and i have no doubt Michael, if you had been there with us looking in where we were, you would know exactly where i was coming from. The elections were pushed through, the way the Old Regime wanted them done, with the sole intentions of making sure, the people taking over, were the ones they wanted installed.
I do hope i have clarified my point now. Mossie
Messagt to Michael Walsh.
When your organisation and othes bacome part of the problem, it is time for a rethink. It is quite clear from the survivors who comment on this site and Shame of Ireland you need to completely review the way you communicate with the survivors, and ask yourself where it all went wrong. I posted a picture, child and vulture on Shame of Ireland, it is an example of someone who was so focused on his mission he lost his way. If you have access please visit the site.
But this is supposed to be for survivers of industriel schools.It seems to me that we are all too old to have young children . In fact many of our children have been very well educated by us without any help from the groups.As for a better life for our children well most of them have had that.How can anybody know the needs of people without even knowing of thier existance, If this man wants to change things he should have started of by making sure we know of his plans for change. In the fact that we were all in these institutions we should all recieve the same treatment.If we wanted this money to be used to help some and not the others then we should have been asked. This has been forced on us, that is not being genourous its dominating others.
Can i just first state that I am absolutely flabbergasted with MOSSIE. To even question the identity of a person leaving a comment is baffling. How can any person expect to have a serious debate, when there is that level of cynicism and negativity. To clarify (which I shouldn’t have to) the reason I said I was not surprised Mossie, if you read the whole comment, you will notice the reason I said that is covered in the 2nd paragraph.
As for BILL – “I clearly don’t no what I’m talking about?” – strange you say that when my main point is the need for a properly run Survivor group – which you agree with ” Sure it would be great if we all could be one voice” and the fact that I say to give Mr.Walsh a chance if he is a man who is trying to change the system. I don’t have to know much to shed some light on EQUALITY and FAIRNESS?
PAULINE – fair enough comments and I hope to address my point of view in the following.
I so not disagree that the management of ROP and indeed several other groups has been appaling and indeed have left a lot of survivors disillusioned with the groups that were set up to support them. This I do not disagree with.
As for Bills comments I could not respond to a personal story, as I was not there but I certainly would say that if something like that happened it is despicable and disgraceful.
However what I merely purport to saying is that:
1) I did not feel that the tone of previous comments made to a man who appears to want to change the way these support groups are set up. I ADMIRE anybody who has the courage of conviction in taking up the unenviable position of changing perception and changing the systems. It is much easier for people to sit in the background and complain (rightly I may add) but you cant change the systme from the outside.
2)I agree that the monies for ROP have to be accounted for, but that was money given to the previous regime. Surely Mr.Walsh was not responsile for the previous monies spent or allocated. So Why tarnish a man who was actively AGAINST the previous regime. How did anyone on this wesite expect it to change, WITHOUT CHANGE?
3) As for other comments. with regard education, etter welfare etc. It is not simply enough to stereotype the respective wants and needs of survivors. I have spoke to many survivors and they want, as much as anything else, a promise of a etter future for themselves and their children, especially in these uncertain times. This can only be done by the establishment of a FAIR, JUST and properly managed survivor group that can help each and every survivor and dependent.
I would also suggest that the many homeless, infirm and emotionally weaker survivors need SUPPORT, proper care and an opportunity to live with the support they were neglected in the formative years of their life’s.
I agree there has been wrongs, I agree groups have been badly managed and I agree they have not been run for the reason they were reputedly set up for. However lets not loose sight that somebody seems to be trying to CHANGE the very system Pauline, Mossie and Bill are rightfully unhappy with.
Its too easy to sit back and demand information from afar, how many of you have actively taken the task to try and change the system?
Would it not be easier to support a man/woman (whether its Mr.Walsh or Mrs.Walsh) in their aim to change and right the wrongs, then BLAME him for something he (according to Mossie) had nothing to do with creating.
Michael, in response to your recent post. You must obviously think we are all stupid.I can plainly see that it was you who wrote that last article, while pretending to be a Dependent of a Survivor. Nice try Michael, but im not falling for that.
I see you still failed to answer any of the questions i put to you, But then again you wont, ( Will You ) You are pretty good at praising yourself also i see.
Why, Michael, if you are not the person, i think you are, did you say, ( I AM DISAPPOINTED, BUT NOT SURPRISED BY MOSSIES, & PAULINE JACKSONS RESPONSES? ) Only someone who knows me,. like YOU Mr Walsh, would have said such a thing.
You made a bad blunder there Mr Walsh. And we are not falling for that one. Its the very same Mr Walsh who wrote that comment, and you are not fooling anyone, pretending to be someone else.
Also for your Information. I have No desire whatsoever to Derail the process as you so put it. But i will have my say, if i think someone is purporting to be someone he is not, and as far as i am concerned got himself into a position by what ever means, to be running that group you are now in charge of.
micheal it is quite clear you dont know what you are talking about.you critise “mossie for his atitude to m walsh.only for the likes of mossie and pauline jackson who are abused people and are not afraid to question the likes of M Walsh and R.O.P.and the crowd of gangsters before him we would know nothing about was happening.
when was there an honest account of the monies given by the H.S.E.and the religious orders to R.O.P.NEVER!!(remember you are talking of millions) i have yet to meet a surviver that got
anything from them But they looked after themselves and their cronies. “mossie asked m walsh a few questions about the new companey, like
why did two of the new committie resign.did m walsh give an answer not at all he never answered any questions he just gave a load of gibberish and lies.
Sure it would be great if we all could be one voice,we never will be until all the questions
are answered and the law hold those responsible
for the monies squandered. the abuse handed out by R.O.P.committie members to people who attended meetings in Cork, i was at one meeting a member of the committie threathened to breake one womans neck if she didnt shut up when she questioned a point.thats what mossie pauline and myself had to put up with.after listening and watching the way
the new committie are behaving i can assure nothing has changed A new face mouthing for the old regime to keep their cosy cartel going
may god forgive the lot of them
hello michael. well the thing i see is that all of the things you mention have excited for many years and are free for all the people in the country.all of these groups who say thay help survivers have had 10 years to prove how usfull thay are. And most of us who live abroad have never even heard of thier existance. but the money being used by them is money that was meant for all of us . we are ageing thats true. but during the 60ths the children in the instutions went outside to school so thay got an education. the older ones have no interest in better education. we are over 60 years of age . we have paid the doctors all our lives and still do. we have earned our living as hard workers.why do you think that we need this man???? what for?????. WE HAVE LOOKED AFTER OURSELVES UP UNTILL NOW.
Hi,
Really like the site very informative.
Let me just first state that I am a dependent of a survivor and have seen how this horrible part of our history has effected thousands of men, women and their families the length and breath of this country and do feel it is so important that we never forget and also ensure that the rights and entitlement of survivors is ALWAYS listened to however I do have a few points to make:
The first is the more I pick up newspapers and read discussion boards like the one above it really makes me feel sad for the cause of survivors simply because you may loose the good will of the majority within this country and beyond by this incessant need to bicker and fight amongst each other. It simply has to STOP, not for me or any individual but for the collective.
Just also to have it noted I am 100% against a trust fund, and would vote number one in the coming election if a politician/ party said that they would help to fight this. However in the times we find ourselves in whilst fighting this we should never forget the basic rights that survivors should be entitled to and to this degree there IS a need in my opinion for survivors groups.
Survivors are an aging population littered with people who never had a chance in life because of the horrible way they were treated and also people who who need better basic provisions from the state.
Areas such as Free Healthcare, improved and free housing (to include people on waiting lists), better and free education, preferential rates for heating, electricity etc.
There has been developments over the last 10 years of the rights of survivors but this has to be continued. Judging by MICHAEL WALSH, I commend him for his apparent want and need im sure to develop these. I am disappointed but not surprised by MOSSIES and PAULINE JACKSONs responses. It seems that nothing else interests you MOSSIE other then de-railing the want of some.
If I look at your responses Mossie I see horrible accusations such as “stop claiming from survivors” yet you go on to mention Mr.Walsh is only being paid expenses from the HSE. This kind of talk could be construed as derogatory, and slanderous.
Mr.Walsh mentions that the name of the company has changed and the company is changing with it, to be much more survivor orientated and yet Mossie you admit to seeing Mr.Walsh object to the previous regime, how then can you, without any foundation before the new company is set up, already say that Mr.Walsh is another dictator just like the previous regime – that kind of blind accusation is treating someone the very same way survivors were treated, unfair and unjustified.
I would like to see a company set up that fights for the basic rights I have mentioned above and if people dont get paid but get expenses for putting in the hours it takes to do that – that that to me is a bargain. Sure I agree 90 – 100% of survivors are against a trust fund, but can that not be fought whilst a company is set up to fight for these basic rights?
Certain survivors need to wake up, realize how long it took to get to where you are know and realize that basic and preferential rights need to be attained now. this can ONLY be achieved by the collective, by the majority and in this regard Mr. Michael Walsh I wish you ALL THE BEST IN YOUR AIMS, as for Mossie, you most certainly are entitled to your opinion but remember the content and tone of your comments to a FELLOW SURVIVOR can be seen by the world. If you treat a fellow survivor like that (return to your waterford hole etc – why would those that can ensure you aims are achieved act any different.
Paying for posh offices, and then paying people like you is costing the independence of survivors , we would be better off with a bit of security in our lives,Anything for us should be given to us . we can decide for ourselves. we don’t need you sir
WHY DONT ALL GROUP LEADERS ORGANISE ALL SURVIVERS
AND LOBBY ALL PARTIES DURING THE ELECTION CAMPAIGN
WE SHOULD MAKE IT CLEAR TO THEM THAT NO WAY WILL
WE ACCEPT THE TRUST FUND.
WHEN YOU TAKE INTO ACCOUNT THE NUMBER OF ABUSED AND FAMLIES WE SHOULD HAVE A VERY STRONG LOBBY,LET
ALL PARTIES KNOW IF THEY VOTE FOR BIFFOS PROPOSALS
WE WILL LET OUR VOICES BE HEARD
WHERE IN GODS NAME IS THE LEADERSHIP (LOOKING AFTER THEIR OWN INTERESTS)WAKE UP OR SHUT UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!
MR WALSH. I DONT SEE HOW YOU FOUND MY REPLY TO YOUR ARTICLE, ABUSIVE, INSULTING OR AGGRESSIVE. IN FACT, IT WAS QUITE THE OPPOSITE, AS MOST OF THE REPORTS AND COMMENTS I AM RECEIVING FROM SUPPORTER’S SEEM TO SUGGEST.
I ALSO SEE FROM YOUR MAILING, YOU MANAGED TO AVOID NOT ONE, ( BUT ALL ) OF THE QUESTIONS THAT WERE PUT TO YOU. WONDER WHERE YOU GOT THAT TRAINING FROM?? YOU SURE YOU DONT WORK FOR THE GOVERNMENT???
I SEEM TO RECALL SOMEONE VERY MUCH LIKE YOU, WHO DID THAT SAME THING, JUST LIKE YOU. HE WAS CALLED NOEL BARRY. I WILL TRY AGAIN AND PUT A FEW SMALL QUESTIONS TO YOU, AND MAYBE I MAY GET AN ANSWER THIS TIME.
( 1 ) WHY IS THE COMPANY ACCOUNTS ON LINE FOR THE YEAR ( 2009 ) LYING?
( 2 ) WHY ARE DIRECTORS OF THE CHARITY, HAVING PRIVATE PENSION FUNDS BEING PAID FOR BY THE HSE. ( €6,500 ) PER ANNUM??
( 3 ) WHY DID YOU REGISTER, THE CHANGE OF DIRECTORS, WHEN YOU KNEW, ( ONLY TOO WELL ) THAT ( 2 ) TWO OF THEM HAD ALREADY RESIGNED??
( 4 ) WHY DID YOU SIGN A FALSE ( LEGAL ) DECLARATION, WHEN YOU ALREADY KNEW, THAT ( 2 ) TWO OF YOUR BOARD OF DIRECTORS HAD ALREADY RESIGNED??
PLEASE DONT BE GIVING ME ANY MORE OF YOUR FANCY TALK, AND AVOIDING THE ISSUES MR WALSH, AND ANSWER THE QUESTIONS THAT ARE BEING PUT TO YOU. WE ALREADY HAD LOADS OF THAT FROM YOUR PREDECESSOR, MR NOEL BARRY, AND CERTAINLY DONT NEED IT FROM YOU.
YOU MAY BE FOOLING SOME OF THE SURVIVORS WITH YOUR WAY OF WORDS MR WALSH, BUT A LOT OF US ARE NO FOOLS, AND WE ARE QUITE CAPABLE OF SEEING THROUGH YOU.
IN A NUTSHELL MR WALSH, ( RIGHT OF PLACE ) HAS VIRTUALLY ( NO ) MEMBERSHIP, AND PEOPLE LIKE NOEL C BARRY, AND YOURSELF MR WALSH,WILL FADE INTO THE BACKGROUND, WHEN ALL THE EXPENSES, AND THE FUNDING WILL DRY UP.
PLACES LIKE ( RIGHT OF PLACE ) ARE BEING RUN, ONLY FOR THE BENEFIT OF DIRECTORS PENSION FUNDS, AND THEIR EXPENSES. SURVIVORS ARE BEING USED ONLY AS NUMBERS ON A DATABASE, TO SECURE FUNDING.
WHERE WERE YOU FOR THE PAST ( 11YEARS ) MR WALSH, WHEN THE SURVIVORS NEEDED YOU?? I CAN RECALL YOU PARADING, AND PICKETING OUTSIDE ( RIGHT OF PLACE ) OFFICES SOME TIME AGO SIR, AND NOW YOU ARE VERY HAPPILY RUNNING THE PLACE. VERY VERY PECULIAR I’D SAY??
THE VERY FEW MEMBERS THAT ARE LEFT IN ( RIGHT OF PLACE ) HAVE, ( NO SAY ) WHATSOEVER, YET AGAIN. ONLY DIRECTORS OF THE ( LIMITED COMPANY ) HAVE ANY SAY. SO ALL THE GROUNDWORK THAT HAS BEEN DONE BY HONEST MEMBERS IN STANDING UP TO MR NOEL C BARRY, HAS BEEN ( UNDONE ) BY YOU.
YOU, MR WALSH, ARE YET ANOTHER DICTATOR, JUST LIKE YOUR PREDECESSOR, MR NOEL C BARRY WAS. YOU REALLY DO NOT CARE ONE IOTA, FOR THE WELFARE OF SURVIVORS.
ANY FUNDING THAT WILL BE SECURED BY YOU, AND YOUR CRONIES SIR, IS BASED ON LIES, LIES LIES, AND MORE LIES. AND THAT IS MY ( HONEST OPINION )
I WONT BE HOLDING MY BREATH, MR WALSH, ON YOU ANSWERING THESE QUESTIONS TRUTHFULLY, AS I AM NEARLY CERTAIN, THAT IN YOUR VOCABULARY, THE WORD ( TRUTHFULLY ) IM SURE DOES NOT EXIST.
I WILL ALWAYS ASK QUESTIONS MR WALSH, IF I THINK SOMEONE IS TRYING TO PULL THE WOOL OVER MY EYES. SO DONT THINK FOR ONE MINUTE SIR, THAT I WILL LET IT REST. I HOPE THE SURVIVORS WILL SEE THROUGH YOUR LITTLE PLOY, AND EXPOSE YOU ALL FOR WHAT YOU ARE. IF I WILL BE A PAIN IN YOUR SIDE, THEN SO BE IT. WE HAVE BEEN SILENCED FOR FAR TOO LONG. YOU WOULD JUST LOVE TO SHUT US ALL UP FOR GOOD NOW, ( WOULD’NT YOU?? )
YOU KNOW WHAT, IT WOULD NOT SURPRISE ME NOW, IF SOME SURVIVORS SHOULD TAKE OUT AN INJUNCTION AGAINST YOU, MR WALSH, FOR CLAIMING EXPENSES FOR MEMBERSHIP YOU DO ( NOT ) HAVE, OR SUPPORT. THINK ABOUT IT.
AND YOU SIR, CAN TAKE THAT, WHICH EVER WAY YOU WANT. AMEN.
I am sorry for the sick and the disabled but if we mix everyone up in all this we will never get anywhere. people who were in industrial schools were sent there by order of the courts to be abused. they knew about the fact that we worked and never received any pay. even in very poor country’s children received pay we didn’t. The Churches own a large part of Ireland and they employed us .The Church of Ireland should take part too.
Derek
I completely agree with you. I think they should include include Bethany Survivors now . The Redress Board should not be closed down until Bethany Survivors are dealt with.
The evidence of the State having a regulatory responsibility for Bethany is there and all that is happening now is prefarication and they are putting off the inevitable.
I remember about four or five years back having endless discussions about the non inclusion of so many institutions in the Redress Act Schedule. At first they excluded even Coole, the hospital for sick and disabled children and many other Special Schools. They excluded institutions for blind people and institutions for people without speech or hearing. I remember giving evidence to a Government Select Commettee on the number of institutions excluded and it was very frustrating.
That was then, this is now..all the eveidence is there. Its a disgrace and we should all be shouting about it.
On the Women who were unlawfully detained in these laundries , it seems to me thast the State and the Congregations are burying their heads in the sand. Are they waiting for the Women and the Bethany Survivors to die?
We need to use the forthcoming election to lobby hard for decisions to be made promptly in the next Dail after the Election.
Derek
As far as the Womens Survivors Support Network is concerned you have our full support and please just let us know what you would like us to do.
best wishes
Sally Mulready
Nice now to see that the results of the meeting that took place with Brian Cowen and all of the government funded survivor groups representing the survivors,but shameless and sadly that it only represented the catholic abused and remembering that these groups are funded by the State, which means they have a moral duty to represent all victims irrespective of what religion they are. Brian Cowen should not have been allowed to dismiss the Magdalene Laundries from that meeting. This behaviour must stop. The Bethany Survivors must also be represented the state has a duty to see that is done.
This is another point of vue. if we have never heard of your services how are we supposed to know that thay exist. If its by word of mouth , then you can only say that you represent people who have heard of you will benifit from them . .
. get paid for this comes from all of us. we have different needs. we live in different countrys
kits no help to know that we are excluded even if its a choise. we survived industriel abuse most of us want to be independent.whats wrong with sharing the compensation between us all . why should it pass through your group or any other . we are adults .you dont represent me.
Sorry Paddy, (Doyle) my thanks to you for this site. It is a real gem of information. My apologies for not making a contribution to the minutes of the meeting with the Taoiseach, as I’m sure some sort of contribution to the events of that meeting must form some basis for our strategy going forward.
Mossie, Wow!
I had to take a deep breath, and decide whether I should reply to your article. Because it was insulting, aggressive, abusive inappropiate language, and as usual also incorrect. I suppose, it must be nice being Judge, Jury, and Executioner of survivors who attempt to improve our lot who dont agree with your version of right and wrong!
Anyway, I’ve decided to reply to your questions, because the one thing that drives me is, to help where I can, to correct incorrect assumptions, mis-information, and conclusions based on fiction. I might add that my initial contribution to this site was as a survivor who genuinely believes that we need to be unified and strong going forward to achieve the best we can for us all. It was a call to find common ground and a unified voice. Therefore, this is going to be my final article on these matters.
Now, to answer your questions;
The first one is legal, regarding Right of Place Building Project. This company is now defunct. It has/will be replaced by Right of Place/Second Chance (the new company). I wish I could wave a magic wand and get the legal people to move quickly on this but it is outside our control. We haved been told it is being progressed and it takes time, there have been delays, but Mossie this does not make me a liar, a bull####r or a rat.
Your next question regarding why Mr Treanor had rewrote a letter that our Board had approved. Very simple answer; We became aware that Mr Noel Barry was going to take legal action against us. It is mine/secretary’s responsibility that what we publish is not open to litigation. Therefore, I asked Mr Treanor to legally proof read this letter.
Mr Treanor is a survivor, a member of Right of Place/ Second Chance, a pratcing Barrister, and who has given his services, time, and expertise free of charge to this organisation. We are very fortunate to have such a survivor who is available and willing to assist us. Mr Treanor returned the amended letter which was placed before the Board for their consideration and they had no issue to the amended version being passed. Mossie, the Board passed the amended version before it went out! Now, this was not an issue as to why the two directors resigned. Absolutely not!
Your next question; How did I become Chairman when I was a member of the steering committee that over saw the elections to Right of Place/Second Chance? Answer; Being a member of the steering committee did not debar me, or anyone elce, of allowing survivors choose who they wanted to represent them. None whatsoever.
Your next question regarding funding figures for Right of Place, well this is an accounting matter. All I can tell you is that professional people whose expertise in this area have examined the figures and the Auditors have passed them and they have been verified by all professional criteria. In other words from a legal and finacnial viewpoint they are correct. This Mossie is not…..supporting corruption, or irregularities or betraying anyone. This Mossie is getting to the facts and doing the job in a professional manner, consequently, I am able to give your questions a clear honest and non-fictional account of our inquiries.
Your last question asks; why did I cross out our secretaries name and sign mine? I did this because a very simple mistake had occured when we were signing these forms. Our secretary had accidently signed his name where I should have signed mine. The forms were sent off and the mistake only came to light then. The secretary informed the CRO and our solicitors of this error and the solicitors asked me to sign my name in the correct place-which I did and no one legally have an issue with that!
The above Mossie is my final communication with you on these matters. I hope you have found some enlightenment which will enable you to move on and find peace, justice, healing and personal happiness in the New Year.
I will finish with this piece of information. We as a new Group had to make a choice between living in the old organisations past (picking on old wounds old slights and resintments) or begin a process of healing and achieving new gains for our members/survivors. We choose the latter.
To Sally Mulready, thank you for your supportive comments. We need ideas that nuture the soul and inspire our thoughts, to enable us to progress our cause.
To Pauline Jackson; Pauline we in Right of Place/Second Chance can only be of assistance to our members, we do of course help any survivor who require our assistance but unless we have your name and address we cannot send you out any information we have.
It is a common mistake and misunderstanding by survivors who are not members of our organisation that they have a right to vote or demand information when if fact they don’t. We have situations where people have turned up at our meetings shouting and roring demanding all sorts of things only to realise that they are not members or survivors who do not support our organisation. So our advice is join an organisation that support your needs and expresses your demands – for you. Our fight is not yet won!
Where are you Mr Walsh. Have you lost your tongue??.you seem to have no problem telling us
how good you are and are trying to help survivers
it is quite clear you are only looking after your
own self intrests and your hidden mates (???).
Be a man and answer the questions then please
resign and take your gangsters with you
in discust Bill
MICHAEL, THANK YOU FOR RESPONDING TO THE ARTICLE ON PADDY’S SITE. I HAVE A FEW VERY SIMPLE QUESTIONS, WHICH I’M VERY SURE, THAT SUCH A WELL EDUCATED MAN LIKE YOURSELF SHOULD HAVE NO PROBLEMS IN ANSWERING.
WHY IS RIGHT OF PLACE BUILDINGS PROJECT LIMITED, THE ONLY CHARITY BY THAT NAME LISTED ON THE COMPANIES REGISTERERS OFFICE WEBSITE??? THIS MEANS OF COURSE, THAT YOUR SO CALLED BOARD OF DIRECTORS, DONT EVEN EXIST AS A LEGAL ENTITY, WHICH IN FACT, MAKES YOU YOURSELF OUT TO BE A LIAR, IN SAYING THAT YOU REPRESENT A COMPANY SUPPORTING SURVIVORS??
DO GO ONTO THE ( CRO ) WEBSITE, SIR, AND CHECK IT OUT FOR YOURSELF, IF YOU DONT BELIEVE ME. AND IF YOU ARE HAVING DIFFICULTIES IN LOCATING THE SITE, LET ME KNOW, AND I WOULD BE ONLY TOO HAPPY TO BE OF ASSISTANCE, AS ALWAYS.
IN FACT I HIGHLY RECOMMEND THAT EVERYONE WHO READS THIS WEBSITE, DO THE SAME, AND THEY WILL FOR THEMSELVES, REALIZE THAT YOU ARE NOTHING BUT A ( BULLS*****R ) TRYING TO CON SURVIVORS, AND ALL FOR THE SAKE OF €250. EXPENSES, YOU CLAIM FROM THE HSE EVERY WEEK, AND DO NOTHING FOR THE SURVIVORS.
I SUGGEST SIR, YOU CRAWL BACK INTO YOUR HOLE IN WATERFORD *** *** AND STOP SPONGING ON THE MISERY OF SURVIVORS.
I HAVE A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS THAT I WOULD LIKE TO ASK YOU, AND WOULD LIKE AN HONEST ANSWER TO, IF YOU DON’T MIND,
( 1 ) WHY DID YOU ASK MR FRANCIS TREANOR, TO REWRITE A LETTER THAT YOUR SECRETARY AND YOUR BOARD HAD ALREADY APPROVED, WHEN HE HAS ( NOTHING WHATSOEVER ) TO DO WITH ANYTHING CONCERNING THE NEW BOARD, AND ALSO IS NOT ON THE BOARD OF DIRECTORS??? YOUR LOYALTY, AND INTEGRITY, SIR AMOUNT TO NOTHING, AND THAT IS THE REAL REASON WHY, ( 2 ) TWO OF YOUR BOARD OF DIRECTORS HAVE RESIGNED ALREADY, AND NOT FOR THE SILLY REASONS YOU SUGGESTED IN YOUR RECENT LETTER TO THIS SITE. WAS MR TREANOR NOT MEANT TO STEP ASIDE, WHEN THIS NEW BOARD WAS CONVENED??
( 2 ) AS A MEMBER OF THE STEERING GROUP, APPOINTED BY THE HSE TO OVERSEE THE ELECTIONS FOR A NEW BOARD OF DIRECTORS, WHY DID YOU NOT STEP DOWN WHEN THE ELECTION PROCESS WAS COMPLETED. AS RECOMMENDED IN THE MINUTES OF THE MEETING YOU HAD WITH THE HSE ON THE 18TH OF MAY 2010?? FOR YOUR INFO, ( PAGE 2 PARAGRAPHS 3&4 )???
I WILL SEND YOU A COPY, IF YOU DONT ALREADY HAVE ONE, MR WALSH, AND ALSO TO ANYONE ELSE FOR THAT MATTER, ( IF YOU SO WISH ??) BUT LOW AND BEHOLD INSTEAD, ( SURPRISE, SURPRISE ) YOU FINISHED UP AS THE CHAIRMAN OF THE BOARD???? WHAT AN ACHIEVEMENT?? BUT MORE SO, A TOTAL MYSTERY???
( 3 ) WHY FOR THE FINANCIAL YEAR ( 2009 ) RIGHT OF PLACE BUILDINGS PROJECT LIMITED ONLY SHOWS AN INCOME OF €32,520 WHEN THEY RECEIVED € 350,000 FROM THE HSE, AND OVER €60,000 FROM THE DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION??? WHY DO THE ACCOUNTS SUBMITTED TO THE ( CRO’S ) OFFICE, SHOW A SUM OF €6,600 PAID INTO A DIRECTORS PENSION, WHEN THEY ARE LISTED AS A CHARITY??? DIRECTORS OF CHARITIES DO ( NOT ) RECEIVE RENUMERATION, SO WHY WAS €6,600 PAID INTO A DIRECTORS PENSION??? PLEASE EXPLAIN.
HAD YOU SUPPORTED MR TOM BRENNAN SIR, THE ELECTED TREASURER ON YOUR BOARD OF DIRECTORS, THEN ALL THE QUESTIONS OF FINANCIAL IRREGULARITIES WOULD HAVE BEEN CONFRONTED, AND YOU WOULD HAVE STARTED WITH A CLEAN SHEET. HOWEVER SIR, YOU CHOSE TO SUPPORT CORRUPTION, AND BETRAY YOUR HONEST BOARD MEMBERS.
THAT SIR, IS WHY THEY RESIGNED. SHAME ON YOU MICHAEL WALSH, AND THAT IS THE REASON I AM ANGRY, AND DISGUSTED WITH YOU, BECAUSE YOU BETRAYED HONEST, AND INNOCENT, SURVIVORS.
AS YOU ARE NOW A LISTED MEMBER OF THE NEW BOARD OF DIRECTORS OF ( RIGHT OF PLACE BUILDING’S PROJECT LIMITED, AS PER ( CRO’S C10 ) FORM SUBMITTED ON THE ( 4TH OF NOVEMBER 2010 ) YOU SIR, ARE NOW ( DIRECTLY RESPONSIBLE ) FOR ALL THE PAST FINANCIAL IRREGULARITIES OF THAT SAID COMPANY, WHETHER YOU KNOW IT OR NOT.
( 4 ) ONE LAST QUESTION SIR, ON THE ( B10 OF THE CRO’S FORM ) ( CHANGE OF DIRECTORS ) WHY DID YOU CROSS OUT YOUR SECRETARIES NAME, AND SIGN YOUR’S??? SUBMITTING SUCH A FORM, ( SURELY ) MUST BE TOTALLY ILLEGAL?? MAY I SUGGEST SIR, YOU ASK THE PERSON WHO IS ADVISING YOU ON THESE IMPORTANT MATTERS, ( WHO EVER THAT MAY BE?? ) TO PROPERLY ADVISE YOU OF YOUR ( ILLEGAL ACTIONS ).
THE NAME OF THE COMPANY ON THAT DOCUMENT IS ( RIGHT OF PLACE BUILDING PROJECT, WHICH MEANS, THAT ( RIGHT OF PLACE SECOND CHANCE ) DOES NOT EXIST, SO WHY ARE YOU LYING TO SURVIVORS, PRETENDING THAT EVERYTHING IS LEGITIMATE, WHEN IN ACTUAL FACT, NOTHING, BUT NOTHING IS LEGITIMATE ABOUT ( RIGHT OF PLACE SECOND CHANCE )???
TRY TO REGAIN YOUR INTEGRITY NOW MR WALSH, AND FULLY SUPPORT YOUR HONORABLE FELLOW BOARD MEMBERS SIR, DO THE RIGHT THING NOW, FOR SURVIVORS SAKE, AND RESIGN. BECAUSE WE ALL NEED ANSWERS, ( NOW )
I WOULD LIKE TO TAKE THIS OPPORTUNITY, AT THIS LATE TIME OF THE YEAR, TO WISH YOU MR WALSH, AND MORE SO ALL INDUSTRIAL SCHOOL SURVIVORS, WHERE EVER YOU MAY BE IN THIS UNSETTLED, AND UNSURE WORLD, A VERY VERY HAPPY NEW YEAR FOR 2011. AND PERHAPS WITH THE DAWNING OF A NEW YEAR, MAYBE, JUST MAYBE, WE WILL ALL GET THAT LITTLE BIT CLOSER TO PUTTING ALL THIS SAD PART OF OUR LIVES BEHIND US ONCE AND FOR ALL.
bhliain nua sásta le gach marthanóirí nuair a bhí riamh d’fhéadfá a bheith ar an domhan
First let me wish you all a very happy new year. I have serious issues with the new so called branch of the new Kerry group. I cant believe that the people that have taken over this group are the very same people that were once licking Noel Barry arse. I have on numerous occasions being abused by the very people who run these groups. They could not organise a piss up in a brewery. I was at at a few meetings in Kerry over the last few months and each time I have been insulted also my family. These groups should be dissolved IMMEDIATELY . I have recorded bits of meetings because of the way I was been spoken to Every time I wanted to speak through the chair. I was told to shut my f…… mouth. It was said at meetings about what I received from them . I quote you did f…….. well out of it.What I got was a washing machine in 2003 that is it. Peoples names have been dragged through the gutter. I would class myself as a kind person and intelligent. I treat everyone the same. These so called groups are only there for themselves and vote for themselves. I was told by the chairperson in Kerry I would never sit on her seat. I would do anything to help another survivor and I have NOT FOR FINANCIAL GAIN just out of my heart. Not everyone that attends these meetings understand what is happening. I have written many letters to ministers no reply. It us about time these people were named and shamed and let the proper authorities sort this mess out in a professional dignified manner.
WE ARE CLASS NOT TRASH
with love
Miriam
MR WALSH AS LONG AS RIGHT OF PLACE/SECOND CHANCE NAME IS BEEN USED THERE WILL ALWAYS BE SUSPICION
AND DOUBT.
THE HARM AND HURT THAT PLACE CAUSED US SURVIVORS
WILL ALWAYS BE WITH US
WHY DID NOEL BARRY GET REDUNDANCY FOR WHAT? CHEATING AND SWINDLING US OUT OF OUR RIGHTS
PROPOSING A TRUST FUND SO HE AND HIS CREW CAN RUN
IT. ANOTHER NICE LITTLE NUMBER FOR THE BOYS AND GIRL(BUCKLEY)
YOUR ANSWER TO THE LETTER BY MOSS SEEMS TO BE A LOT OF TALK ABOUT HOW GOOD R.O.P. IS NOW.YOU DISMISS THE RESIGNATION OF MR TOM BRENNAN AS PERSONAL I KNOW AND YOU KNOW HE WAS STABBED IN THE BACK AND DRIVEN OUT AT LEAST TELL THE BLOODY
TRUTH
YOU HAVE A GREAT WAY WITH WORDS MR WALSH.BUT AS FAR AS THE TRUTH IS CONCERNED YOU HAVE YOUR OWN VERSION OF IT
AGAIN WHILE R.O.P.ARE INVOLVED THIS DISGRACE WILL NEVER END
All that sounds well but you see sir Ihad never even heard of this organisation before i saw things about it on this site and to do that i had to be able to buy my computter.If its supposed to be about survivers of industriel school we all should have been aware . the money spent by these people has made no difference to my life at all so the trust fund wont change anything either. that is why i disagree with it . the moneys given for survivers is not being used even to let all of us know whats being done. we deserve our share or its not fair.we should not be homeless to deserve it. we worked hard for that money.
Mossie, Mossie, Mossie,
On reading your article it appeared, on the one hand, to be asking some questions, and on the other you seem to be using language that is hostile and demeaning to me. But you know, thats OK, because if I had the level of misinformation and incorrect assumptions,that you have then perhaps even my own language just might be as insulting.
But it’s not and now I intend to answer in a factual and honest manner some of your questions. In fact I have been answering these kinds of questions from many survivors who are members of ROP/Second Chance.
The first question is an easy one to answer Mossie; How did I become chairman of this Group? The new Board of Directors met and I was proposed ans seconded and elected. You also ask why did two Directors resign? They resigned for their own personal reasons. The amount of time, energy and personal commitment to this position is quite staggering, and it puts a tremendous strain on family, health, and ones social life. There is the added financial strain as being a Director is a non-paying position.
Your next statement is completely inacurate, and I am not sure what it is you are alluding to when you say…. how come I am still working in the offices……with the old board members. Firstly, I do not have an office in the building, and I do not work with any of the old Board members. Mossie, they (the old Board have stepped down and have been replaced by the New Board). I repeat they have GONE! They have taken their redundancies and handed back their keys. This situation was achieved because we were democratically elected. Not once but twice! The first time in fromt of over 300 survivors in the metropole hotel in cork. This election was in dispute as it was claimed that all of the members here and in the UK were not consulted. The second time we held elections in Kerry, Waterford, Galway, Limerick, Cork and London, under an independent Chair, and made the process as transparent as we possibly could. Now, we could argue the toss here and point out some shortcomings in this process, but it was the best we could do. The end result was that delegates were elected who in turn elected a new Board of Directors to run Right of Place/Second Chance.
Now, you refer to me as a dictator! That’s not a very nice thing to say, and it is completly incorrect. I will explain why. Since the new Board have been elected we have been working away in the background restructuring the organisation. Gone is the position of Project Leader! This position has been replaced by the introduction of three outreach workers in the regions of Cork, Limerich/Galway and Waterford. They are answerable to an Area Support Co-ordinator, who in answerable to the Board of Directors. At the end of the year all the information will be analysed and researched to determine if the work on behalf of survivors is benefitting survivors and where the need of survivors is being met, in for example – Health, Housing, Welfare and financially. Is this structure a dictators charter? I think not! It is a radical depature from the old system and we hope a huge improvement on it. We also have a new grevience procedure put in place, so if any survivor is not happy with their treatment or contact with the organisation then they can utilise this appeal process to have their grievance resolved. Now, as we are only in the new structure five minutes, it is not unreasonable to ask that we are given at least one year to decide if it is a success or not!
Mossie, you ask why my name was on the letter sent out to survivors. Nothing sinster or incorrect about this. The secretary had resigned and as Chair it was my responsibility to sign my name on behalf of the Board, who incidentially sancioned me to do this in my position as Chair at a meeting of the Directors.
You also want to know what Mr Sean O’Neill is doing in the offices. Mr Sean O’Neill has taken on the task of wages/bill administrator on a temporary basis. He is a survivor of the utmost integrity and dependability. But his role is on a temporary basis.
You also ask how we intend to fill the two vacant positions to the Board. The preferred option is that we co-opt them which is correct legally. Survivors can at the end of the Year elect their own people, or not, when elections are due. If the directors are not doing the work in a satisfactory way or not achieving results for survivors then its curtins for them/us at election time.
You finish your article by warning people…. not to be taken in by me….. as I am taking over from Mr Barry…. Mossie, the good news is that we have already taken over from Mr Barry and the old Board. Thats the whole point of our challenge in the first place! We have a new vision and direction for the organisation.
You also say….. that I have a damned cheek to try and pull the wool over survivors eyes by canvassing on this site for survivors to give me their vote of confidence….. No, this is not my intention nor could anyone with an independent view on what I contributed interpret my article as advocating this. Far from looking for a vote of confidence in me it should be obvious that I am advocating that survivors vote for a vote of confidence in themselves and contribute in a constructive and positive way toward improving their/our lives.
In conclusion, Mossie I hope I have answered your questions in a fair an honest way. We in Right of Place/Second Chance have no axe to grind with anyone. We do not believe in the attack on individuals nor do we condemn any survivor on the basis of supposition and conjecture. Every survivor has his/her right to the presumption of innocence until proven other wise.
Even though I am Chairperson of Right of Place/Second Chance I believe that any survivor who has a desire to advance their vision of where survivors should be in relation to health, welfare, and so forth, should band together with any organisation that promotes these views. Sniping and criticising negatively on the sidelines only weakens our drive for what should be our rights, and priority, in the services and supports that the state has to offer.
I WOULD LIKE TO ASK MR WALSHE IF HE COULD EXPLAIN HOW HE GOT TO BE CHAIRMAN OF HIS GROUP? AND ALSO WHY TWO OF THE NEWLY ELECTED BOARD OF DIRECTORS HAVE RESIGNED ALREADY FROM THAT GROUP??
ALSO COULD MR WALSHE ANSWER TO EVERYONE, WHO HE REPRESENTS, AND WHERE HE GOT HIS DATA BASE FROM??
ALSO, HOW COME HE IS WORKING IN THE RIGHT OF PLACE BUILDING, AS HIS PREDECESSOR MR NOEL C BARRY WORKED IN, ALONG WITH SOME OF THE OLD BOARD OF DIRECTORS, WHO WE WERE ASSURED, BY SOME IDIOT, THAT ONCE THE NEW BOARD OF DIRECTORS WERE ELECTED, THE OLD BOARD WOULD STAND DOWN??
THIS HOWEVER HAS NOT HAPPENED, BUT THEN AGAIN WE ARE NOT SURPRISED. ALL THAT WAS DONE WAS, WE REPLACED ONE ( DICTATOR ) MR NOEL C BARRY, WITH ANOTHER ( DICTATOR ) MR WALSHE. WHO NOW HAS THE CHEEK TO COME ONTO THIS SITE, AND CANVAS FOR VOTES FOR HIS NEW LOT. I SUGGEST MR WALSHE, YOU STICK TO TRADE UNIONS.
THOSE ELECTIONS YE HELD SOME TIME AGO WERE A FARCE, NOTHING YE DID WAS LEGAL. YE PUSHED THROUGH LIKE A BULLDOZER, AND WOULD LISTEN TO NO ONE, AND THE WHOLE SHOW, STINKS OF MR BARRY, AND HIS HENCHMEN, STILL PULLING THE STRINGS IN THERE BEHIND THE SCENES. AND THAT MR WALSHE IS AN INSULT, AS YOU TALK ABOUT.
THE NAME ( RIGHT OF PLACE ) HAS BEEN TARNISHED SO BADLY IN MORE WAYS THAN ONE IN THE LAST COUPLE OF YEARS, AND I CANNOT SEE WHY ANYONE IN THEIR RIGHT MIND WOULD WANT TO JOIN WITH THAT MOB AGAIN AFTER WHAT YOU LOT IN THERE HAVE DONE TO THE SURVIVORS. YOU ARE THE ONES RESPONSIBLE FOR THE STATE OF THINGS FOR SO LONG.
COULD MR WALSHE ALSO EXPLAIN, THE LAST LETTER HE SENT OUT WHY, HIS WAS THE ONLY NAME ON THE DOCUMENT?? THERE WERE ( 5 ) ELECTED MR WALSHE, NOT ( 1 ) AGAIN I SEE THE ) DICTATORSHIP ) SYNDROME CREEPING BACK IN AGAIN. DID THE REST OF THE BOARD DISAGREE WITH YOUR OPINION??
WE DO NOT WANT TO SEE A REPEAT OF WHAT HAPPENED IN ( RIGHT OF PLACE ) OCCURRING YET AGAIN, AND AS OF YET, THAT LOT HAVE STILL TO BE INVESTIGATED, AND MADE ACCOUNTABLE FOR THE COMPLETE MESS, AND MISUSE OF FUNDING, DURING THEIR REIGN.
GO BACK TO YOUR TRADE UNIONS MR WALSHE. WE DO NOT WANT YOU OR YOUR EQUALS INTERFERING WITH SURVIVORS AGAIN.
WHAT IS MR SEAN O NEILLS POSITION IN THOSE OFFICES IN RIGHT OF PLACE?? WAS HE NOT ONE OF THE OLD REGIME?? WHAT IS HE DOING THERE??
CAN YOU ALSO INFORM THE SURVIVORS, HOW YOU INTEND TO ELECT ( 2 ) MORE DIRECTORS OF THE BOARD TO REPLACE THE TWO THAT HAVE RESIGNED?? WILL IT BE DEMOCRATICALLY DONE?? OR WILL YOU TAKE IT ON YOURSELF, LIKE YOUR PREDECESSOR MR NOEL C BARRY DID ON SO MANY OCCASIONS, AND PUT IN WHO YOU THINK FIT, AND NOT ASK THE SURVIVOR AS WAS ALWAYS THE NORM??
ANYONE WITH ANY BIT OF SENSE IM SURE WILL SEE RIGHT THROUGH YOUR LITTLE PLOY, TO DECEIVE YET AGAIN THE PEOPLE WHO YOU PURPORT TO REPRESENT.
YOU DO NOT HAVE A MANDATE MR WALSHE, AND I PERSONALLY THINK YOU HAVE A DAMNED CHEEK TO TRY AND PULL THE WOOL OVER SURVIVORS EYES YET AGAIN, BY CANVASSING ON THIS SITE FOR SURVIVORS TO GIVE YOU THEIR VOTE OF CONFIDENCE.
YOU ALL SHOULD BE DAMNED WELL ASHAMED OF YOURSELVES, AND I WOULD URGE ANYONE WHO READS THIS MESSAGE, TO STEER WELL CLEAR OF ANYTHING, OR ANYONE INVOLVED WITH THAT DISGRACED MOB RUNNING THAT PLACE IN LOWER GLANMIRE ROAD.
DO NOT BE TAKEN IN BY THIS MAN, MR WALSHE, HE IS TAKING OVER FROM MR NOEL C BARRY, WHO I BELIEVE STILL HAS HIS OWN KEYS TO THE RIGHT OF PLACE BUILDINGS, AND COMES AND GOES AS HE PLEASES.
None of these groups such as right of peace or any other have been able to organise things in a fair way ,So the only way i can see is for professional people who know how to include every one of us be in charge . too much money has been wasted up untill now . i dont want to hurt anyone but the survivers who are in need of a place to live in is proof enough that its not working. 34 million is a lot of money
Many thanks for the comment. I agree that the way forward is unity and not the shouting and abusive language I’ve been subjected to through emails and in person. Of course I’m not the only one to bear the brunt of abuse from people who were abused as children while in the care of religious orders and the State, many others have had to endure the same derision, including the Taoiseach (Prime Minister) of our country. My thanks to for the kinds comments to you Sally and to others who have been kind enough to recognise the work that goes into the maintenance of this website.
Let 2011 be the year of unity and to hell with division. The latter achieves nothing. Let those that are ‘drunk on power’ sober up and smell the coffee. Paddy.
I agree 100% with what Michael has written and I hope we all do as he suggests band together, unite and fight for justice as brothers and sisters. We are not each others enemies. Its great and uplifting to me, to see a bit of good old fashioned trade union messages of solidarity coming through . Thank you for this.
Also Paddy thanks for this site , for the huge effort , time and dedication you give to this site from which we all benefit.
I know you face attacks from time to time,
but no one who gains an international reputation like you have, for campaigning for the rights of others ever said this work, this life’s work that you do day in day out, was going to be easy or without controversy. It is however a highly regarded and respected site -let those who want to damn you try creating and maintaining a site , providing up to the minute information that is easy to read and is accessible to all.
Thank you sincerely and I know many more people out there in Ireland, the UK and Abroad who would say the same. Be well Paddy.
Sally Mulready
On reading most of the articles posted on this site it is without doubt that we have survivors who are (1) angry, (2) insulting, (3) intelligent, (4) ignorant (5) deeply disturbed and (6) anti-government.
Let me ask a question; Which of the six categories listed above would you need to enhance the lives of survivors? OK, ten out of ten, it is number 3; those who possess intelligence. Intelligence demands that survivors engage with the government of the day to progress the support services that survivors need now and in our old age. Services in welfare, health, finance, and housing. There are others, but those listed are a priority for now.
Shouting, and insulting fellow survivors or organisations representing survivors only adds a sense of betrayal to our cause, because it does not achieve one step further along the path for justice, healing, truth or victory for survivors.
My background in in trade union activity and the old motto “An insult to one is an insult to us all” still has a powerful message for us, especially survivors! Let us band together as brothers and sisters should and confront the forces that try to limit our cause. Let us be positive and celebrate the achievements of the past, and rally together for the success in our cause, today and into the future.
We can do this by joining a survivor organisation, and participating in its activities. Join Right of Place/Second Chance. Right to Peace, Alliance or whatever. Let your voice be heard in a positive way and contribute to the cause. I have, and I am trying to make my case for the rights of survivors in a meaningful way. No individual or organisation have a monopoly on doing things right, and mistakes are made, but lets not knock one another for our mistakes; lets build on our success. This is my contribution to this site, for what it worth. Slan go foil
myself and two others opened a dropin centre in galway city.we are volentry. we are not funded by any goverment and we dont want to be either.i think myself we were all caught by the b,,,,by the goverment,and the redress board.i got my so called redress b.witch they would not let me handle had to get reciets for every i got.had to sendthem to highcourt accounts office.igot one thousand a month and they charged me for stamp over five yrs.the goverment dont give a f,,about any survivor.ican go on and on but i wont.
HI BERNADETTE, JUST SAW YOUR POST, IT SEEMS THAT SO CALLED ( RIGHT OF PLACE ) ONLY SENDS OUT INVITATIONS TO THE PEOPLE THEY KNOW WILL VOTE FOR THE PEOPLE THEY WANT ELECTED, AND NO ONE ELSE.
THEY DID THIS AT THE CORK MEETING ON THE 18TH OF JUNE, THE MEETING OF COURSE WAS A COMPLETE AND UTTER DISASTER. THERE WERE MEMBERS AT THAT MEETING ASKING MR FRANCIS TREANOR ( BARRISTER ) WHY THEY HAD NOT RECEIVED A LETTER TO ATTEND.
SOME OF THOSE PEOPLE, I BELIEVE HAD HEARD OF THE MEETING ON THE LOCAL RADIO, AND ONLY FOR THAT, THEY WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN THERE.
THAT, BERNADETTE, I CAN ASSURE YOU IS THE REASON WHY THERE WAS SUCH A SMALL ATTENDANCE IN LONDON. THERE IS, A SERIOUS REASON BEHIND ALL OF THIS, YOU CAN BET, AND ITS NOT GOOD.
THE THING IS BERNADETTE, SO CALLED ( RIGHT OF PLACE ) DONT WANT ANYONE TO HAVE A SAY IN ANYTHING, AND NEVER DID. AS MR TREANOR SO PUT IT IN DUBLIN, ( YOU ARE A NON ENTITY ) WE DONT MATTER, AND AS FAR AS THESE PARASITES ARE CONCERNED, ( WE DONT AND NEVER DID )
AND AS YOU ALREADY ASKED BERNADETTE, ( WHAT ABOUT ALL THE OTHER SURVIVORS ) WHAT ABOUT THEM INDEED.
I WAS SO DISGUSTED RECENTLY I WROTE TO THE SO CALLED ( RIGHT OF PLACE ) TO HAVE MY PERSONAL DETAILS REMOVED FROM THEIR DATA BANKS, BECAUSE I DID NOT WANT THAT MOB USING MY NAME AND DETAILS TO OBTAIN FUNDING FRON THE HSE IN MY NAME. I HAVE SINCE DONE THIS, AND GOT A LETTER OF ASSURANCE OF SAME.
WE DO NOT NEED ANY OF THESE GROUPS, OR SHOULD I SAY ( PARASITES ) FEEDING OFF THE MISERY OF OTHER SURVIVORS. GET RID OF THE BLOODY LOT OF THEM NOW.
hi does anyone know who daisy day is? right of place had a meeting in london last weekend to pick delegates what for? not many people turned up again no one else from uk invited ? what about ……………… manchester ,coventry ,birmingham,
mixed group london and the london womens group ?dont we have a say in what is going on its looks like again the answer is again no>>>>>>> any one know whats going on ? and what about all the other survivors ?
I am writting my autobiography title
BEHIND THE LIES AND SRECRETS
THE WHOLE TRUTH ND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH
for years i have been living a lie to all my friends and children
When i have finished it I will not need any more pretence of who i am
I was sentenced on the 16th of June 1959 to an industrial school was in front of a judge i Killarney I was 20 months old .
My only crime was to have been born.
My realase date was the 5th of November 1974. Not even my birthady. I have 3 birth dates.
ALL THESE PEOPLE THAT TOOK OVER THE CENTRES PROBERBLY GOT THE MAXIMINE .SO NOW THEY DONT CARE AND NEVER DID.
BULLIES. I hve never hurt anyone in my life but i have been hurt by all. just because i want justice
i got an apology from the presedent by email
i was crying I Was not good enough to meet with her even though I requested to see her
MAY GOD FORGIVE THEM ALL
TO ALL MY FRIENDS AND FELLOW MEN AND WOMEN WE HAVE TO KEEP THIS IN THE PUBLIC EYE .
I HAVE PLENTY INFORMATION TO GO TO THE MEDIA
WITH WHAT HAS BEEN GOING ON IN THESE MEETINGS
WE ARE BETTER THAN ANYONE
with love Miriam x
this is a question I have been asking myself for years, when exactly did the factory close down in golden bridge,and i would also like to say , that i have never been convinced that the fire that destroyed the building was caused by someone who had been an inmate, otherwise the lovely building of the convent would still be standing , the comparison was really clear between the two buildings,
THANK YOU VERY MUCH BILLY. I WILL I PROMISE
JUSTICE FOR ALL!!!
i think marthes comment is very true , Idont know why religion causes such voilence, beeing locked up with a bunch of fanatiques who lived out thier fantamsmes while being paid by the state and our perents and thay sold the rosery beads , instead of child caring all thier attention was to thier religions pratices, for us it was all about punishing us, beeing taken to court and condemed by well fed and clothed deplomed juges, and thay were not poor , my father lived in a small town famous for its sausages , he lived in the house he grew up in , and we would have been better off because i was not scared of my dad . and the food was great .also he had references from the local police but the powers that were put us into these places for our own safety and , no matter what happened we knew we would get no help. as thay had total power
WELL SAID MIRIAM,
I AGREE WITH YOU IN EVERYTHING YOU SAID.
YOU ARE RIGHT THE ONLY WAY WE WILL EVER GET
ANY SATISFACTION IS FROM THE EUROPEAN COURT OF JUSTICE,KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK IF I CAN HELP IN ANY WAY PLEASE LET ME KNOW THROUGH
PADDYS
GOD BLESS.
JUSTICE LAFFOY, SAW THE INJUSTICE THAT WAS BEING PERPETRATED MIRIAM, AND I THINK THAT IS WHY SHE LEFT THE WHOLE THING BEHIND HER. I THINK SHE WAS NOT GETTING THE COOPERATION THAT SHE NEEDED TO CARRY OUT HER INVESTIGATIONS FROM CERTAIN PEOPLE, AND DECIDED TO RESIGN.
THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT THE GOVERNMENT IS DOING WITH THE SURVIVORS. THEY ARE IGNORING US ALL, HOPING WE WILL EVENTUALLY GO AWAY, THE SAME TATICS MR TREANOR, MR BARRY, AND MISS BUCKLEY ARE USING. THEY THINK WE WILL EVENTUALLY GET FED UP. BUT WE WONT. NOT ON YOUR NANNY, WE WILL CONTINUE TO BE A RIGHT PAIN IN THE ARSE TO THE LOT OF THEM.
What needs to be investigated are the solicitors that handled our cases as some of them earned more than the victims were awarded .
Not been believed and if we did not accept our 1st offer the 2nd one was a lot lower so victims were abused all over The redress board was just another form of abuse no wonder Minister Laffoy walked out
I MET MY SOLICITOR IN A HOTEL IN CORK ALONG WITH ABOUT 300 OTHER PEOPLE. I never met my solicitor EVER PRIVATELY . My files were with everyone,I HAD SOME VERY PERSONAL INFORMATION. I had to get most of the information myself . how were they allowed to do that. The solicitors that handled cases especially the large firms MUST HAVE THOUGHT THEY WERE PLAYING THE SLOT MACHINES IN VEGAS. WE WERE THE MACHINES AND EACH TIME THEY TOOK A CASE ON “JACKPOT” THEIR EYES THEY WERE THE WINNERS WE WERE JUST SCUM. NOBODY’S
IN THE EYES OF THE CHURCH THE GOVERNMENT THE Solicitors AND the trauma of re=living my experience in the way i was treated by the redress board. I sent him a letter about the way my case and my sisters case was handled . It was then i met him for the 1st time after the case. He never looked at me once while i was speaking to him. I was just another number to him like the way I was in the orphanage. I wrote to the PRESIDENT minister for education, health and and a few others outlining my concerns about the way I was briefed and sent a letter of complaint to the law society to look into my case they did not care. I WAS ON A LOSING BATTLE .
To be honest i would have been better representing myself . My sister was left traumatized The way these people were left speak to her for eg . My sister was telling them about a incident that happened to her when she went to sing boom bang a bang by lulu .I don’t know how she learnt it so quickly . As she started to sing it bearing in mind she said she could have been 4 or 5. every girl remembers what happened on the day The nun went up on the stage smacked her across her face so hard she landed on the other side EVERYONE was laughing. I cried for days. Would you believe They went out and checked when lulu sang it came back and said that no way could she remember and anyway her year was wrong she was 6 and dropped her money by a substantial amount How pathetic are these people. Her solicitor never opened his mouth just out of collage i say . disgraceful
Some of the organizations who set centres to help the victims of child abuse to be checked out especially “RIGHT OF PLACE CORK” TRALEE AND A LOT MORE OTHERS. some of the people that ran these places were total bullies. Especially the one in Cork and Tralee where the victims were abused mentally by people who were victims themselves. unacceptable behaviour
ALL I WANTED WAS A HOME I OWNED AND A MEDICAL CARD, I WOULD HAVE BEEN VERY HAPPY . SO MY CHILDREN WOULD ALWAYS HAVE A ROOF OVER THEIR HEADS.
THE NUNS THAT INFLICTED THIS ABUSE ON ME AND MY SISTERS AND THOUSANDS OF OTHER CHILDREN WERE CALLED “THE SISTERS OF MERCY”
THEY SHOWED US NO MERCY NEITHER DID THE IRISH GOVERNMENT
WE SHOULD OUST THESE BULLIES AND MAKE A STAND
Dear Paddy
I attended a meeting in Kerry recently snd I have never heard so many lies about what is happening and the way other victims were called I have proof. The persons who are in charge and involved in RIGHT OF PLACE CORK/ Kerry should be brought to court of the way survivors are been treated . I have suffered abuse from most of these people I have it all documented.
I really believe you should here it
I am going to the European court of human rights myself to put a stop to this Only then we will get justice.
Bullies I called them.
God bless
Whilst I have the deepest compassion for those whose childhoods was wasted in Ireland’s Roman Catholic Industrial schools, I would just like to point out the FACT that whilst all of that child abuse / TERROR was happening, the rest of (Holy-Catholic Ireland was in the same grip of Roman=Catholic terror.
In other words, the vast majority of Ireland’s children were just as traumatised in their own family homes as those who were incarerated in the Industrial Schools, Magdalene Laundries etc.
I know this from my own peroanl experience – as a FACT – as a “Middle Class” Irish adult woman, as a Mother, now …
There is no REAL so-called Middle Class in Ireland at this point in time. To be “Middle Class” in Ireland now (in the 21st century) means having money, being materialistic. Money is all that matters to the so-called “successful” in Irish society.
As Sean O’ Casey said: “You can take the peasants out of the sewers, but you can’t take the sewers out of the peasans!”
I am glad that you got the help you needed , all i get from the camden town irish center is a xmas card once a year, oh and last year i recieved a petition to sign, It was to keep the centre open , to be honest i would rather know how my brothers are , And when i looked the place up on internet, Iwas surprised i had not expected a manor house with privite gardens,
As i said before, we should all write to our bishops with our complaints about this inadequate top up…
Hello Paddy, I am relatively new to all that is going on with the GROUPS. I look at your website most days and the reading seems to be about funding and the squabbles that surround the funding. I attend the Camden Womens Group when I can as I travel up from Southampton, and if it was not for them I would have thrown in the towel about compensation. That is another story.
I can just say that Phyllis Morgan has been my saviour and I have met Sally Mulready for the first time last month at the Camden center. Sally is a very genuine person and is only too willing to help. So please dont tar all the groups with the same brush. I would love to speak to a minister and ask Him/Her not to withdraw funding from that center as they are doing a really good job. Paddy I’m afraid I dont have much trust in the Irish Government but that is just me,
paddy i for one recognize how busy you have been on this site. if i had a site that is open to all views i would want to be independent too, just have a site like this says it all.
i am fed up with these government figures these religious fanatics these kangaroo groups who claim they are in touch with survivors, they all know of this site yet they have not taken the time to put ANYTHING on this site no not even word of comfort that costs absolutely NOTHING. NOTHING, AND NOTHING ok maybe their guilt.
this is sick, you know they are worse than the worse criminals in the worst prisons of this state.
I’M VERY SORRY TO SEE SO MUCH CONFUSION AND SO LITTLE PROGRESS.
I STILL MAINTAIN THAT:
5 BILLION EURO SHOULD BE THE FIGURE FOR COMPENSATION TO (ALL) THE VICTIMS OF ABUSE IN IRELAND. THIS SHOULD HAVE BEEN THE FIRST TRANCHE, THE FIRST OF ALL INSTALMENTS TO BE PAID OUT BY THE GOVERNMENT, BEFORE EVEN BAILING OUT THE BANKS.
WITHOUT THIS COMPENSATION, NOTHING CAN BE RIGHT. THE CRIMES OF ABUSE IN IRELAND, THE MENTALITY WITHIN THE CATHOLIC CHURCH AND THE STATE TOWARDS THE ABUSERS, AND THE ATTITUDE OF THE IRISH PEOPLE ARE AT THE HEART OF EVERY PROBLEM WE HAVE NOW, INCLUDING THE BANKS CRASH AND THE ECONOMY’S NEAR COLLAPSE. WHEN A NATION AND HER PEOPLE TOLERATE CHILD ABUSE, TURN A BLIND EYE ON THE CRIMINALS, IGNORE THE DISASTROUS CONSEQUENCES OF THESE CRIMES AND DENY CHILDREN ANY RIGHT IN THE CONSTITUTION, ANYTHING AND EVEYTHING GOES.
THE RECENT (AND VERY RECENT) EVENTS HAVE SHOWN THAT:
ONE HALF OF THE GOVERNMENT TREATS THE OPPOSITION, AS WELL THE ENTIRE POPULATION, WITH PURE AND UTTER……CONTEMPT.
THE OTHER HALF OF THE GOVERNMENT – AS DEMONSTRATED IN THE LATEST SHOWDOWN – IS COMPLETELY UNABLE TO SHOW AND EXERCISE……ANGER.
THIS REFLECTS EXACTLY THE SITUATION IN THE COMMUNITY, WHERE ONE HALF CONTINUES THIS TOXIC CYCLE OF GOVERNMENT WITH ITS REPEAT-VOTE, AND THE OTHER IS UNABLE/UNWILLING THE TAKE TO THE STREETS.
THE 5 BILLION EURO IS STILL OUTSTANDING AND MUST BE PAID TO THE VICTIMS. IT DOESN’T MATTER IF THE MONEY HAS TO COME FROM THE IMF OR EUROPE. IN FACT IT MIGHT BE A BLESSING. IT IS QUITE CLEAR THAT WE HAVE NOT BEEN ABLE TO SHOW SYMPATHY AND COMPASSION FOR THE VICTIMS. WE HAVE NOT BEEN ABLE TO EXPRESS OUTRAGE AND INDIGNATION AT THE PERSONS AND ORGANIZATIONS RESPONSIBLE. NOT EVEN GUILT AND SHAME HAVE BEEN ABLE TO DRIVE US TO DO THE RIGHT THING, DESPITE OVERWHELMING AND IRREFUTABLE EVIDENCE. IF THE MONEY HAS TO BE ADVANCED FROM THE IMF OR EUROPE, AT LEAST IT WILL EXPOSE US FOR WHAT WE ARE.
MAYBE THEN THE COLLECTIVE SHAME WILL PIERCE THROUGH THE MASK OF CRAIC, GENIUS AND CREATIVITY THAT WE HOLD TO THE WORLD, AS A WAY TO DISTRACT US FROM THE PAINFUL REALITY OF ABUSE, ADDICTIONS, VIOLENCE, OPPRESSION, DISCRIMINATION AND UNJUST LAWS.
TO BE DONE, JUSTICE MUST BE SEEN.
RAYMOND
YOU KNOW THERE IS NO IMPORTANT SUPPORT ON THIS SITE NO GOVERNMENT SUPPORTER NO SOLICITOR NO COUNSELLOR NO MEMBER OF THE EDUCATION BOARD NO RELIGIOUS NOTE TO SAY SORRY NO GOVERNMENT COUNSELORS, TDS FROM ANY PARTY, JUST US WHAT DOES THIS TELL US ALL.
NO ARTISTS NO WRITERS, NO FAMOUS MUSICIANS ARE WE JUST SEEN AS WHAT………….? I JUST WONDER
do we have to take groups to court next if we are not supported or turned away? THERES A THOUGHT.
they have no use any more than these funds what else would you ever want from them? the same as what you always got NOTHING.
IT IS VERY SAD THIS GOVERNMENT HAVE NOT LOOKED AT THE BROADER PICTURE. NOT ALL SURVIVORS HAVE REPRESENTATIVE GROUPS THIS IS ILLEGAL BUT YOU NEEED MONEY TO FIGHT IT IN COURT THAT. OH YES THE GROUPS HAVE ALL THE MONEY.
PUT A SMILE ON THEIR FACES TELL THEM YOU NEED SOME FUNDS TO TAKE THEM TO COURT. THAT SMILE IS THE SAME SMILE WHEN YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT THESE FUNDS ARE LISTED FOR (NO LIST OOPS)
HERE ARE MORE FLIGHTS, MORE PAPER FOR YOUR BIN TITLED LETTERS, USELESS MEETINGS HOTEL BILLS FOOD BILLS DRINK BILLS BILLS BILLS BILLS AND MORE BILLS OVER PAID WAGES AND THEY MAY EVEN TIP THE WAITER,RESSES
the groups saved the government money with these groups on their side they will always deal with them. but in time even if it takes longer than our lives it will be recorded that the government funded the unvetted the unqualified they took advantage of the people they damaged and supported them as leaders of kangaroo support groups. they never handled it in a professional manner.
THE GOVERNMENT GAVE THEM MONEY JUST AS THEY DID THE RELIGIOUS TO SUPPORT US,
IN TIME THIS CORRUPTION WILL EVENTUALLY SHOW. AND THE GOVERNMENT WILL CLAIM AGAIN THE FIFTY FIFTY DEAL THEY PAID THE GROUPS AND IT WAS UPTO THEM TO PROVIDE NOT THE GOVERNMENT.
IT IS NOT ABOUT YOU OR ME OR ANY SURVIVOR IT IS ABOUT SAVING MONEY.
IF YOU GIVE MONEY TO BAD MANAGEMENT YOU CAN ONLY BLAIM THEM.
THE GOVERNMENT WILL ONLY DENY THEY CHOSE THE GROUPS THE SURVIVORS DID SO ITS NOT THEIR FAULT BUT THE GROUPS.
( they will not have billions to pay back in the future as the religious they will all vanish one by one till you will hear no more of these unknown support groups.)
this will not take years either the funds will not last that long.
they made sure redress was sorted out before the ryan report other wise we all could have had our day in court.
YES ROSE I HAVE BEEN SAYING WHAT YOU HAVE JUST SAID FOR A LONG TIME.
we can write to the government over and over Robert but believe me , they are NOT LISTENING. and have no intention of doing so.
Publicity is the oxygen for any fight and this is going to be a hard fight. Keep the survivors plight in the papers and television. Build your own memorial and place it in O Connell St. Dublin, in a flurry of media publicity.
Gather the grand children of survivors and march in protest outside the post office in O Connell St. (A well known place of protest)
The Daughters and Sons.
The Wives and Mothers.
It wont matter how large these protests are it will get media coverage.
All support for the survivors counts.
Paul.
The truth is… neither the state nor the religous congregations give a damn about THEIR victim. They never have and they never will. Redress should never have happened. The courts should have dealt with the whole lot.
I wonder if any of those solicitors who represented us for redress read this site. What are their views on the redress victims got. My solicitor said at the time that, this was just redress and that no compensation could begin to compensate victims for what they went through. Is there any decent solicitor out there who has the guts to stand up and speak out?
giving these groups this power is a reminder of the sam back then.
why did the government not check first to make sure the same problems do not reoccur?
NO VETTING, NO CONCERN, NO INSPECTIONS, NO PROOF
THAT THESE GROUPS ARE WHO THEY SAY THEY ARE.
IT IS NOT JUST BAD IT IS DISGUSTING WHAT IS HAPPENING
HAS ABUSE OF HUMAN RIGHTS NOW BECOME LEGAL IN IRELAND NOW? SO THERE IS NOTHING THE GOVERNMENT CAN DO?
FROM THE FRYING PAN INTO THE FIRE WITH US ALL WHO CARES?.
MAYBE WE ON THIS SITE ARE THE ONLY ONES WHO OBJECT IF THERE ARE OTHERS WHERE ARE THEY.
STOP JUDGING PADDY DOYLE AND GET WRITING TO THE GOVERNMENT OR VISIT YOUR LOCAL COUNSELORS NOW.
WRITE TO THE MEDIA DO WHAT IT TAKES IF YOU WANT TO SEE CHANGE.
I HAVE WRITTEN TO MANY BUT I AM JUST ONE
MY VIEWS ALONE ARE NOTHING.
THE LESSER WILL ONLY BE KNOWN AS TROUBLE MAKERS’ JUST AS THOSE GROUPS TREATED THEIR MEMBERS WHO CRIED OUT FOR SUPPORT.
IF YOU KNOW ANY PROFESSIONAL PEOPLE PLEASE TRY TO GET ADVICE.
At last something is beeing done about these criminals ? I JUST HOPE THAT FROM NOW ON thay will be questened in the same way as others ,
I AND OTHERS ARE GUTTED WITH THIS INFORMATION.THEY WILL BE SAT IN THERE LITTLE ASHLINN CENTER QUAFFING CHAMPAGIN WITH THE REST OF THE F……GANGSTERS.WHY IS THE GOVERMENT STILL GIVING THEM OUR MONEY WHEN THEY ARE ALL STILL BEING INVISTIGATED.JUST ONE THOUGHT HAVE THEY ALL NOT GOT A CRIMINAL RECORD SAME AS US WHAT ARE THEY DOING WORKING IN GOVERMENT.SOMETHING SHOULD BE SAID ABOUT THAT.HAVE THEY PAST ANY CHECKS I THOUGHT NOT.EVERYBODY NOW PLEASE GET WRITING TO THE HUMAN RIGHTS COURT IN STRASBURG BECAUSE THIS IS VERY WRONG WHAT HAVE WE GOT TO LOOSE NOW
Hi.Paddy.
Well done for follow up to Ryan report, things are a bit clearer now.
Did i read somewhere the Aislinn center want to open a Bed and Breakfast in Dublin for survivors who visit the town. No doubt this B&B would be funded from the statutory fund at survivors expence.
Paul.
The police raid of the Catholic Church’s headquarters in Belgium is one of the first plausible signs of fatigue and exasperation being felt by national authorities here on the European mainland as to the stonewalling tactics by the Religious in their endeavour to minimise and cover up allegations of child abuse. There is a high degree of awareness as to paedophilia given the recent high profile cases some years ago here in Belgium. This fatigue and exasperation is being felt not just by authorities but by survivors who simply have had enough of stonewalling by church officials. This will not be the last police raid of church facilities here on the mainland and other countries will follow suit.
BACK IN THE REAL WORLD
Police in Belgium have raided the Headquarters of the Catholic Church and home of the former Archbishop…
Allegations of sexual abuse of minors have haunted the Catholic Church in Europe since two damning Government reports in Ireland exposed the extent of the hidden scandals there…
The impact of the two reports prompted victims of abuse, which was sometimes committed decades ago, to speak up in other countries…
No danger of any such action taking place here is there, where sex criminals HAVEN becomes Paedophiles HEAVEN…… With The POPE’s BLESSING……
I mentioned €300,000 Euro as “madness” in the context that it was a story put out by, as I understand it, one or more of the so called survivors representative groups. There was never any basis for the putting out of this ‘story’. All it has done is cause untold trouble to many people who believed that the sum of €300,000 plus €65,000 aggravated damages was going to be paid out to all survivors some that was never going to happen. I still contend that anyone putting out that sort of information without hard, factual information is disingenuous to put it mildly. Rumours such as this are the height of madness and unfair. Paddy.
Hi Paddy,
Is that what you said in regards to you thinking survivors of Abuse wanting £300,00 is ” madness “..is that correct Paddy????…..hmmm. If so I am truly stunned..would you not think they are worth that with what they have been through? You know if these cases would have been took to the High Court thats probably an accurate amount..plus aggravated damages.
That comment sits extremely uncomfortably with me.
I thought I’d post this again..dated back in (2009)
Irish religious orders agree to boost compensation for abuse victims
By Cian Molloy
Catholic News Service
DUBLIN, Ireland (CNS) — The 18 Irish religious orders implicated in decades of abuse of thousands of children in their care have agreed to increase their contribution to the compensation fund for victims.
Following a June 4 meeting with the Irish prime minister and other government ministers, the orders also agreed to an independent audit of their assets, so that their ability to pay further compensation can be determined.
In a joint statement following the meeting, initiated by Irish Prime Minister Brian Cowan, the orders said they were willing “to make financial and other contributions toward a broad range of measures, designed to alleviate the hurt caused to people who were abused in their care.”
“The congregations will contribute toward a trust, proposed by (Cowan), and a process has now commenced to establish how this can be achieved,” the statement said. “Each congregation is fully committed to identifying its resources, both financial and other, within a transparent process, with a view to delivering upon commitments made today.
“We agreed to commence this process immediately, and we have also agreed to meet the ‘Taoiseach’ (prime minister) again in two weeks’ time,” the statement said.
WHERE IS THE JUSTICE;WHY HASN’T THESE RECCOMMENDATIONS BEEN APPLIED.
Mr Cowen, you are extremely corrupt AND SHOULD BE ASHAMED AT THE WAY YOU HAVE TREATED YOUR OWN FELLOW IRISH MEN AND WOMEN.
To all of you Catholic Hypocrite Preachers..please look in the mirror and take a good close look at yourself, ask yourself again..DO I KNOW THIS BIBLE??..IS JESUS WITH ME? I think you know the answer deep down..do you realise how deluded you are?..you would be better devoting your life to a partner whom you love..have children, grankids and be happy in yourselves..dedicating genuine love for them..not JESUS, A MAN YOU CLEARLY DO NOT KNOW! AND ALSO A MAN WHO DIED FOR YOU.YOU WOULD KNOW LOVE AND FEEL MANY EMOTIONS THAT I THINK YOU HAVE NEVER KNOWN ALONG YOUR JOURNEYS…THAT WOULD BE THE GREATEST TEACHER FOR YOU TO FEEL EMATHY, LOVE, COMPASSION AS YOU ARE SADLY NOTHING MORE THAN DETACHED HUMAN BEINGS WHO HAVE CONNED YOURSELVES AND INTURN DESTROYED THOUSANDS OF SURVIVORS LIVES. I WOULD NOT LOOK FORWARD TO MEETING MY MAKER IN YOUR POSITION.
TO ALL THE “GROUP LEADERS ” WHO CLAIM TO REPRESENT US..YOU ARE AS CORRUPT AS THEM. YOU HAVE LET YOUR BROTHERS AND SISTERS DOWN. AND YOU FILL ME WITH MORE DISGUST THAN THEY DO.
TO ALL THOSE IN THE SPOTLIGHT, MEDIA E.C.T…THOSE WHO COULD HAVE, SHOULD HAVE SPOKEN OUT FOR VICTIMS YOU ARE ALSO AS BAD. THE EGO CERTIANLY GOT THE BETTER OF THY SELF.
ENJOY YOOUR POWERE AND SLEEP EASY..
HAPPY DAYS.
ANNE
An example of a cold factual question is “are the assets of the responsible religious congregations correctly shown to the government”. Who said that their assets are correctly shown?. Who are on the panel that put forward this information to the government?. Should this question be revivsited?, and by whom?.
The fog has lifted and we at least see what is on the table. We also know that an opportunity to create a dialogue with the Prime Minister and other ministers was partially wasted. Four hours of government time is not something to let slip by, instead we must learn to gather as much information as possible and leave argumentation aside as it will create a negative climate in any future talks with statutory bodies. Cold objective questions put to the relevant officials are of greater use and benefit to survivors. We are into the process of information gathering, questions and facts are the keys to a meaningful dialogue.
Paddy thank you for the information.
Patrick, Good on you, that is what I have asked all our e-mailers here on Paddy’s site to do, tell your story, write , phone, shout from the rooftops let the people know of our past in the institutions. I doubt that I will see a penny of the Church’s 50% contribution for the wrong they admit to now, but so be it, Im 75 years young, still struggling with emotions and like you Patrick writing my memoir, “Damaged Goods” a few American publishers are asking for it daily, not until I finish. Reading the comments from the meeting with the govt. I apologise to my harsh comments on SOCA in England, although I do not agree with the way it operates, but Mick Waters has made me eat my words, he and Northern Ireland rep. Mr.Tom Hayes with whom I have crossed e-mails with are the only two who have made any sence of our plight, and states exactly what I have said before, send out to all survivors a voters list asking YES or NO to what we want done with the 50%, whatever that amounts to, Fund or no fund, reading a Ms buckley and cohort comments raised the hairs on my neck, read them again, she is on the payroll of the Church and Govt, has been for at least four years as far as I can see, the only avenue that we most surely should consider to disband these leeches, all of them that say they represent us, is in the European Court. If I tell the Govt. that my expertise from my training in Glin on my release in 1951 was looking after 30 pigs in Limerick, and my expertise also was in the food they ate, I would remind them that that training put me to work at 10 shillings a week, a small fortune to me ?. I would tell them that I was provided with a horse and cart and two 40 gallon metal barrels courtesy of Mrs. Ryan my employer, to visit the hotels around Limerick, the Glenworth etc. to pick up the cooked and uncooked slops for the pigs, not everyone is an expert on my training from the Institution of St. Josephs, Glin. they trained me in the proper way to make sure the pigs were treated, Seanie, they informed me, the uncooked slops has to be boiled in the big wood fired kettle, the cooked slops have to be inspected for broken glass etc. you must do this by feeling through the slops with your hands, the pigs must have been laughing as I bandaged my bleeding hands, I have a confession to make to the Govt.and Mrs Ryan RIP. I lost respect for the pigs, and as I approached their sty’s on many occasions carrying two buckets of their safe food with bandaged hands, whilst working for the lady I developed a vicious right hand, Mrs. Ryan later complained that the slaughtered pigs were showing blue bruises on them, and that I was not to strike them. Now, will the Irish Govt. train me in another profession, will they encourage me to return to Ireland to scrounge for handouts from the persons who say they represent me, teach me to be what I should have been, a butcher, a baker or a candlestick maker ? I rest my case.
Seanie.
Thank you very much Paddy, for putting this up.
Raymond
banks win …..surviors loose
thanks for providing this paddy
how young is the youngest surviver of industriel abuse , how long ago was the last surviver taken to court and condemed to these prisons , It seems years ago that i learned to take care of myself , Ido not need or want to go to school at 64 years of age, advice is another word for counseling. so that shouldent be expensive; why should we all be paying , We never hear from or see these people
well im not going to right a big long right up about the above,,to be honest im burned out by all of it…but what you did say pappy did make sense about survivors looking for 300.000 is madness..i think 25.000 would help alot in some cases …on a personal note im heading monday to meet a selfpublishing company to get my book publish about my life..ive self funded this work and its been such a great help writing down my painful story..what makes it amazing i wrote this with no schooling at all thats a bit of a miracle in its self.i can spell to save my life as you may notice in my posts but it did not stop me..i just that god for his help along the way….with out him id be dead years ago..x