The Irish Times – Friday, December 24, 2010
JAMIE SMYTH and PATSY McGARRY
MINISTER OF State for Children Barry Andrews has said the Murphy commission’s remit should not be extended to investigate other dioceses as it was unlikely to teach the authorities anything new.
Speaking ahead of the presentation to the Government yesterday of the commission’s report into the Diocese of Cloyne, Mr Andrews said extending the investigation to other dioceses would be a hugely time-consuming exercise without much benefit.
“I’m not convinced the length of time and the expense would teach us any more than we know already. Anyone that has committed an offence can be prosecuted in the normal way. Any child exposed to risk will have to be protected by the HSE. I don’t think any further inquiry will teach us anything new after Cloyne,” he said.
The Cloyne report was presented to Minister for Justice Dermot Ahern yesterday but it is unlikely to be published for some time. A spokesman for the Minister said it would now go to the Director of Public Prosecutions, Attorney General, the Garda and then to the High Court.
“It’s a lengthy process. You’d be lucky to see it before Easter,” he said last night.
The report follows an investigation by the commission into the handling of clerical child sex abuse allegations by church and State authorities in the Catholic Diocese of Cloyne. It covered allegations made between January 1996 and February 2009.
The commission’s report on the handling of clerical child sexual abuse in the Archdiocese of Dublin has already been published.
Fine Gael’s spokesman on children Charlie Flanagan made a call earlier this week for the remit of the commission to be extended to all uninvestigated dioceses in the State.
Mr Andrews is awaiting details of a HSE audit of child protection practices in church dioceses. And it is up to the Government to decide whether to extend the commission’s remit beyond Cloyne on the basis of this HSE audit. But the audit, which was initially expected to be concluded last December, is still not complete.
Mr Andrews said he was “frustrated” at the lengthy delay and he now expected the audit to be concluded in February or March. He said the delay was caused by the huge difficulty in cross-checking claims of child abuse between the HSE and the gardaí. Both organisations use different systems to record child abuse claims – the gardaí record the names of alleged perpetrators, while the HSE records the victims’ names.
“It is unfortunate that it has taken as long as it has,” said Mr Andrews. “However, it is one of those situations where you want to get it right rather than get it out straight away.”
In December 2009 Phil Garland, HSE assistant national director, children and families social services, wrote to all Catholic bishops seeking further information about statistics supplied from the dioceses about allegations of clerical child sex abuse. He sought the names of alleged abusers from the bishops to make it easier to conduct the audit.
The HSE said last night it expected the audit would be finished in the spring. “It is of paramount importance that the audit is complete, accurate . . . and fully meets the criteria set out by the Minister for Health and Children who commissioned this audit,” said the HSE.
However, even before receiving the audit results from the HSE, Mr Andrews said he felt it was unlikely the Government would agree to a further inquiry into another diocese beyond Cloyne. He said the commission’s Dublin investigation was a representative sample and not an attempt to discover all the truths of a situation.
“It was simply to say what are the issues, what are the problems, where did it go wrong, what are the legislative requirements? We have all that information now and we will have further from the Cloyne commission report.”
Are the child victims down the country not as deserving as the ones in Dublin.
Does an act on behalf of Children in Dublin, in some way provide children down the country with a result, specific to their case. No of course not.
It won’t serve any useful purpose investigating all the diocese of Ireland because that would make the religious cult of which Mr. Andrews is a member look even worse.
An investigation would not tell us anything new except for new names, new depth and further proof that the “few bad apples” defence is just a sham made possible by Mr. Andrews engineering. When a country is steeped in a sick religion it becomes a sick country.
It is here that Brady who himself is part of the abuse of children and Martin will meet head on. The Primate versus the Arch Bishop. One can remain silent, but both can not. Brady’s credibility is long gone but will Martins also disappear? If both remain silent as to Herr minister’s statement then what are the consequences?.
So what to do? It is here that Arch Bishop Martin can make a decisive move by demanding that all dioceses in Ireland be investigated. This would strengthen his hand with the faithful, silence will strengthen his position with the church. He has to choose which of these carries the future.
Pray tell me Herr Minister for Children what you already know, share your information with us or shall I tell you what we all know?. That the rest of Ireland is as bad if not worse than the Murphy Report. That if investigated it would uncover barbarous crimes against children on an unimaginative scale. This would reflect on the government who enabled these crimes by its deference to the Roman Church. Mannix Flynn got it right when he desribed Ireland as ” A Major Crime Scene”.
“Mr Andrews is awaiting details of a HSE audit of child protection practices in church dioceses.”
Could it be that Mr Andrews is keeping a lot of the truth hidden re child abuse in Ireland. It was not just the church that hid the abuse of children and protected the abusers. Consider the fact that the HSE had a wonderful way of keeping abused children quiet.- Oh yes, give the children Electric Shock Therapy to burn out the memories of their abuse and allow the abuser free.
Hard to believe, I know. It shocked me to the core on hearing the HSE “solution” to child abuse. That is the agency charged with child protection. Really? Questions need to be asked and answered by Mr Andrews.
Cloyne is the tip of the Iceberg, the Deeper the Water the Murkier it gets; Andrews wants to be Cannonised for the Good he has done the Catholic Church; is this the hand of Opus Dei? Government Minsiters Should have a Legal obligation to Declare!
“A bird that you set free may be caught again, but a word that escapes your lips will not return.”
it is how they are received, i believe, that counts, cos if they fall on deaf ears they just travel in space till they find someone who cares.
THE TRUTH IS AS FOLLOWS
THE INFORMATION GATHERED SO FAR BY THE GOVERNMENT AS WHOLE, NO MATTER THE PARTY IS INFORMATION TO SUIT THEIR OWN CARELESS SATISFACTION.
THEY ARE THE MOST ARROGANT GOVERNMENT IN EUROPE FOR SURE.
THE WAY SURVIVORS HAVE BEEN TREATED THUS FAR IS THAT CARELESSNESS OF WHAT THE COUNTRY IS SUFFERING AT PRESENT.
IT IS TO THEIR OWN GUILT SHAME NEGLECT OF THE PEOPLE THAT HAS CAUSED THEIR DOWNFALL.
WE ARE ALL TITLED AS SURVIVORS BECAUSE WE ARE SURVIVING THIS GOVERNMENT ACTIONS TO DATE.
SO LETS NOT ALLOW OURSELVES BE MISLED THEY ARE NOT INTERESTED IN US AS PEOPLE THEY ARE INTERESTED ONLY IN HIDING THE TRUTH THROUGH THEIR SPIN DOCTORS ( PEOPLE WHO WORD THINGS TO STEER THE PUBLIC AWAY FROM SUCH TRUTHS)
IF WE EVER BELIEVE THEY CARE ABOUT US THEN WE ARE EVEN MORE IGNORANT THAN WE THINK WE ARE.
SO MR. ANDREWS YOUR THEORY SUITS YOUR OWN FILTHY SATISFACTION JUST AS THE POPE THE BISHOPS THE PRIESTS THE BROTHERS OF SATAN AND THE NUNS THE SISTERS OF THE SAME DEAMON.
THE INFORMATION GATHERED SHOULD BE USED TO SUPPORT THE PEOPLE AND FAMILIES WHO SUFFERED.
YOU YOURSELF TITLED US SURVIVORS WHEN THE TRUTH IS THEY ARE WITNESSES OF THE FILTHY ABUE CAUSED BY THOSE IN THE SAME POWER AS YOURSELF.
THERE ARE NO HEALING IN YOUR WORDS, AS THOSE WORDS FIT IN THE WRONG TITLED BOOK.
JUST AS THE ABUSE OF CHILDREN IN THE PAST TO SATISFY THE LUST OF THOSE IN POWER THE SAME SATIFACTION READS HERE IN YOUR WORDS SIR.
THIS ACTION SO FAR IS A TOTAL DISGRACE TO YOU AND YOUR WHOLE CIRCLE.
since we all have to live with abuse i think everybody should be heard .as long as it stays inside of us it hurts and spoils our lives. we might as well see this through to the end . why stop here
Mr Andrews, if a job is worth doing it is worth doing properly and by the way i do not see you being concerned on how survivors have been treated thus far.
If there is enough for the Government then will you make a stand on behalf of the evidence you are satisfied with? What do you think can be done about the misfortunes of survivors who have lived a life of hell ever since those reports.
YOU HAVE NO SAY SIR IF YOU HAVE NO PROPER ANSWERS TO THE PROBLEMS THAT HAVE BEEN UNCOVERED THUS FAR.
THE QUESTION IS,
WHAT DO YOU SUGGEST THE GOVERNMENT SHOULD DO NOW, IF THERE IS ENOUGH PROOF OF THE DAMAGE CAUSED BY YOUR GOVERNMENT AND CHURCH TOWARD LIVING PEOPLE YOU CALL OR TITLED SURVIVORS, YET THEY ARE ALL “WITNESSES” OF THE CRIMES COMMITTED AGAINST THEM THEY ARE IN THEIR THOUSANDS?.
THIS HAS GONE WAY BEYOND REDRESS ISSUES NOW. THE RESULT OF THE REDRESS HAS NOT BEEN SUPPORTIVE ENOUGH IT SHOULD BE A BEGINNING NOT AN END TO THE HEALING PROCESS.
THE GOVERNMENT TOOK 500 MILLION PLUS AWAY FROM THE HEALING PROCESS SO FAR CLAIMING IT AS THEIR FIFTY PERCENT OF THE GUILT, AND LEFT ONLY 100 MILLION TO PAY FOR WHAT WAS ALL READY AGREED FOR SURVIVORS IN REDRESS EDUCATION, AND COUNSELING AGREEMENTS.
SO IF YOU FEEL YOU HAVE ENOUGH RESEARCH DONE CONGRATULATIONS FOR WHAT EVER THAT DOES FOR YOU AND YOUR GOVERNMENT ONCE AGAIN, BECAUSE THERE IS NOTHING WHAT SO EVER MENTIONED ON THE SIDE OF SURVIVORS AS YOU CALL US.
ARE WE SURVIVORS BECAUSE WE MANAGE TO STAY ALIVE WITHOUT YOUR SUPPORT SO FAR?
OR IS IT BECAUSE YOU PITY THE POOR ORPHANS?
WHAT EVER YOUR REASONS YOU, YOUR GOVERNMENT AND THOSE SUPPOSED SUPPORT GROUPS CALL US SURVIVORS, IT HAS NEVER BEEN DONE FOR OUR BENEFIT,
BECAUSE IF IT WAS,
YOU WOULD RECOGNIZE US AS “WITNESSES” OF THE WORST CRIMES EVER COMMITTED AGAINST US CHILDREN.
THOSE CHILDREN ARE STILL HERE ALIVE TODAY SO DO THE DECENT THING AND SORT OUT THE NEEDS OF ONE AND ALL / FOR ONCE AND FOR ALL.
Well Herr Minister for children I have news for you. You must be the only minister for children in Europe who thinks so. You may be a minister but not for children. Meanwhile Northern Ireland will investigate historic child abuse in religious institutions, both Catholic and Protestant in a robust and timely fashion. It is understod that the investigation will not be carried out in the fashion of the Ryan report where criminals were protected.
Why is Barry Andrews not in favour of an extension of child abuse? Is this another part of the great cover up process. Paddy