Thursday March 04 2010
A GROUP set up to support Catholic religious orders urged parishioners to refuse to help with compensation payments to abuse victims.
On Monday, the Bishop of Ferns Denis Brennan asked that his 100,000 parishioners contribute to the diocese’s massive legal and compensation bills.
The Let Our Voices Emerge (LOVE) organisation yesterday said it would prefer the downfall of the Catholic Church.
The group’s call came as Bishop Brennan said he did not want to “burden” the Vatican with a request for financial help, while singer Sinead O’Connor predicted the Catholic Church would not survive the 21st century.
LOVE spokesperson Florence Horsman Hogan said yesterday that the church would not manage without selling some of its assets: “If people want the church to survive in its present state, they need to contribute to ensure survival. If people don’t want the church to survive in its present state — don’t.”
She said she had spoken to members of religious orders as well as abuse survivors who felt in the past that the Catholic church was being unfairly targeted by people with agendas.
“They now state that it would be preferable to see the downfall of the church as it stands, and the rebuilding of a more humble and truthful entity.”
LOVE was established by former industrial school pupils to support religious orders who were being slammed because of abuse allegations. However, the group spoke out against institutional child abuse and withdrew its support for the orders in the wake of the publication of the Ryan report last year and yesterday repeated its call for atonement.
“We have seen brave people — nuns, priests and brothers — give selflessly to care for us in the industrial schools. But we’ve also collectively seen a corruption that must be atoned for,” Ms Horsman Hogan said.
In a letter published in today’s Irish Independent, singer Sinead O’Connor speaks about her astonishment at Bishop Brennan’s request to his flock to pay bills arising from the horrific sex abuse in his diocese.
The outspoken singer says the Vatican has always put its business interests before the interests of children.
Ms O’Connor says that: “If Christ was here he would be burning down the Vatican. And I for one would be helping him.”
Bishop Brennan has ruled out a request to the Vatican for financial help for the abuse victims’ compensation fund. “I am not familiar with the finances of the Vatican,” he said.
“I do not want to burden others,” he added. “This is our responsibility and we would like to discharge our responsibilities ourselves.”
Speaking yesterday on local radio, Dr Brennan said it was up to the parishes to decide if they wanted to sell an asset or donate funds and denied he had made a specific request for additional donations. “We have not ruled anything in or out. We need to get people’s reactions. We are trying to be as transparent as possible,” he said.
– Conor Kane and Colette Browne
Irish Independent
Why don’t the religious orders sell all their properties in Ireland and the UK one convent near me had assets 2008 of 12 point 9 million 3 nuns and one priest live there they have a paid gardener a house keeper 4 really up to date cars ! I they believe get a pension. Why? Do they pay stamps or national insurance ect ,the gardens would make a lovely play area for kids (once the nuns have gone ) and not before! Wales also has a lot of convents that could be sold ,Darlish Abbey was sold for 16million about 3/4 years ago maybe we should check out their assets for the world and they should be made to sell pay out the survivors and then we can at last have closure .with out courts ect the education fund is a farce , that could be divided between all the survivors equally or their families if they are no longer alive again without forms and all that is asked for from us , bloody hell , why don’t they ask each group what they want get their arses to UK and speak to us not the so called few going on our so called behalf .
If Sinead wants to light the match that burns down the Vatican, she’ll have to fight me for the chance. I want to do it! And I’m loving the song lyrics on here, just waiting for Louis Walsh to get hold of them, he might make a fortune getting Westlife to cover them.
Ok, back to reality. Sometimes it’s hard for me to speak out about this cos I’m English and live in the UK, but as I’m from an Irish Catholic family I know a bit about what the Church has done to people. The dear old Catholic Church made my natural mother so guilty and afraid that when I was born out of wedlock (shocking as this was the early 1950s) that she put me up for adoption and her beloved church arranged for me to be adopted by an equally devout family who turned to be a bunch of sexual perves.
Anyway, over here in the UK we’re told that we live in a ‘compensation society’, whatever that is. I presume it means you can claim thousands for suffering from repetitive strain injury to the wrist from typing (a job you choose to do)or from tripping over a paving stone while walking home from the local slightly pissed. Yet, over here too, nothing for the thousands of children who suffered physical, emotional and sexual abuse either in schools, orphanages or even (like me) in their own family homes. Abuse is abuse, however it is done and whoever does it, but the amount given out by the Catholic Church over the years has crippled tens of thousands of people emotionally, many for the rest of their lives. It’s not a cop out, we aren’t work shy losers who want to jump on the compensation band wagon and who blame everything that goes wrong in our lives on our pasts, we are genuinely damaged people who have taken responsibility for our own lives and are simply looking for justice.
A solider might lose a leg doing a job he chooses to do, I lost my childhood through no fault of my own, I also lost the ability to love, for many years, so did you! Go for the compensation and expose every creepy pedo priest or abusive nun you know of and good luck to you!
Emmie
MARTHA
I FORGOT TO SAY WHAT IT WAS T R A N S P A R E N C Y OF THE MONEY MAD CATHOLIC KIND THAT IS
Christy
PS. MICK CHRISTINE JOHN mICK SEAN CAN I HAVE THE 300,000x THE 65,000 you all said we would get.
Christy
TO martha 2010 23:39
NAIL ON THE HEAD, I CAN REMEMBER THE GUY IN THE COLLAR GOING AROUND THE AREA WE LIVED IN
COLLECTING MONEY FROM VERY POOR PEOPLE EVERY WEEK, HE USED TO DO A STREET EVERY OTHER WEEK,
AND IF HE GOT NOTHING AT ONE HOUSE THE REST OF THE STREET KNEW ABOUT.
christy
Yet another group meeting is being held London Camden Irish centre 6th march Christine Buckley guest speaker ,Mary Murphy guest speaker meeting at 12pm till 3 any one in London going? speaking on our behalf ?again without consulting us yet again will see if can get the minutes ?
Paddy,
I think Florence Horsman Hogan gets too much attention.
Two days ago Andreas Englisch, a German Vatican Correspondent, made a complete fool out of him self in a television-talk-show. After one person said that the Catholic list of sin amounts to more pages than the bible, Andreas Englisch jumped out of his chair, gesturing wildly, his coronary artery swollen with hate, he hissed everybody is unfair against the catholic church.
I think we should ignore so much ignorance and continue our way.
Sieglinde
I think I need treatment. Anyone know a good analyst? A feck it, I LOVE EVERYONE, of “EVERYBODY LOVE ME BABY, WHAT’S THE MATTER WITH YOU. TELL ME WHAT DID I DO TO OFFEND YOU”. Sincere apologies to the artists who recorded that song. Paddy in a desperate state. Maybe it’s just a bad dream – someone tell me it is.
Andrew, what air to we sing that to. Can we have a backing track. Sound like the business. LOVE Paddy!!!!
Bishop Denis Brennan of Ferns is quoted as saying: “We are trying to be as transparent as possible”.
You guys can try all you like to be open and honest, but you NEVER will be, because SOCIOPATHS such as yourself and your RC cohorts don’t “do” honesty!!!
Portia wrote: “Any Irish man or woman who gives a penny to this church is also guilty of colluding with criminals.”
Sure, isn’t that what the Irish have been doing for centuries – helping to build up the vast riches of Rome, while their own children starved.
Its nice to see that less of us Irish are doing that sort of masochistic thing anymore, but there’s still a sizeable number of the population that do, apparently.
Ms O’Connor says that: “If Christ was here he would be burning down the Vatican. And I for one would be helping him.”
Well, we all know what happened to JC when he challenged The System, to say nothing of the fact that his RC murderers made his their “God” after they tortured him to death – so the story goes…
So Sinead, looks like you’re going to have to light the first match, since JC is long since dead and gone. Bet they still have a few crosses in their Vatican Cellars…
Paddy
I prefer IMAGINE, WHAT EVER GETS you through THE NIGHT or HELP OR SOMETHING OR THE LONG AND WINDING ROAD OR PAPER BACK WRITER OR FROM ME TO YOU OR DAY TRIPPER ON 24 march 10, TICKET
TO RIDE OR HELLO GOODBYE.
THE CBs MONEY CAN’T BUY us LOVE. we have each other ON THE long and winding road to rome or dublin on THE 24 OF march so GET BACK YOUR YESTERDAYS WE’LL ALL COME TOGETHER ON MALBOROUGH ST ON MARCH 24th
christy
We LOVE You
We don’t care if you only love “we”
We don’t care if you only love “we”
We love you.
We love you, and we hope
that you will love “we” too
We love “they”.
We love “they”,
and we want you
to love “they” too
Ah………..
We don’t care
if you hound “we”
and love is all around “we”
Love can’t get our minds off
We love you,
we love you
of course we do
You will never win “we”
Your uniforms don’t fit “we”
We forget the place we’re in see
‘Cause we love you
We love you.
Of course, we do
I love you.
I love you
And I hope that you
won’t prove wrong too
We love you.
We do.
We love you.
We do.
Ah…..Ah……Ah…..
Apologies to The Rolling Stones
Well Florence how’s the campaign going ? You know, the one you started to defend Sister Callida AFTER the publication of the Final Report of the Child Abuse Commission otherwise known as the Ryan Report.
ABOUT SISTER CALLIDA:
* Sr Callida was an incompetent manager who exhibited a lack of basic management skills including rostering, proper record keeping, communicating with staff and children, consistency and avoiding favouritism. Each of these deficiencies would have represented a serious flaw in a Resident Manager but, taken together, they constituted a disastrous mixture.
* She consumed alcohol in front of the children to excess and she was drunk and incapable on occasion.
* Her behaviour was unpredictable and irrational; she bullied the staff and occasionally beat the children.
* Sr Callida exposed children to additional risk by going away unannounced leaving the children in the charge of junior staff who had no way of contacting her and also by permitting male outsiders to have access to the home and to stay overnight even when she was not there.
* It was wrong for the Resident Manager to have children sleeping in her bedroom and for her and the Sister with whom she was conducting a relationship to take children away for weekends to hotels to stay in ‘family rooms’.
* Congregation witnesses admitted to some knowledge of Sr Callida’s behaviour, but did not feel they could do anything about it, and the situation drifted on over 12 years until it developed into a crisis.
* There was no proper supervision of the Manager.
* The Community did not have the interests of the children as their priority. Any action taken by the Congregation focused exclusively on the Resident Manager. The children were not considered.
* The Health Board neglected its supervisory function in respect of children for whom it was responsible. One of its senior Health Board officials permitted his friendship with the Resident Manager, to cloud his judgment, and he failed to recognise gross failures of management as a result. No proper reviews were carried out by the Board’s social workers.
* The children in Cappoquin were let down and endangered by each of the institutions and agencies in whose care they were placed, by the persons in positions of authority over them, and by persons in supervisory roles. They were fortunate to have care workers who were more dedicated to their tasks and more committed to the interest of the children than their superior.
ABOUT Let Our Vices Emerge:
Over 80% of the members of this organisation applied to the Residential Redress Board for compensation for the abuses they suffered while in the care of the ‘religious of integrity’
WHAT WE DON’T NEED IS LOVE, LOVE, LOVE,
LOVE, LOVE, LOVE.
LOVE IS WHAT WE DON’T NEED
With profound apologies to the Beatles!.
Cripes, it’s back to haunt us. I suspect a media fix was needed!
Some things are best ignored and LOVE is one of those. It appears that Florence Horsman Hogan has run out of causes and so, like a Jesus on Easter Sunday morning (if you believe that sort of stuff) she has arisen from the dead – well after a fashion!
Someone wake me up please, I’m having a nightmare. I’ve given up the drink more or less so it can’t be the “horrors” or is it?
Paddy.
A Roman church that was more humble and truthful than the present one would only have to be 0.00000001% humble and truthful.
I think Sinead was on the right track.
One of Pope Benedict’s ceremonial ushers has become implicated in a gay prostitution ring.
Ghinedu Ehiem has been dismissed from the choir at St Peter’s Basilica after his name appeared in transcripts of police wiretaps.
The transcripts were published by an Italian newspaper in an unrelated investigation.
Well, Well, Well
FLORENCE IS BACK
I thought we got rid of you Flo. What was it, miss the media attention, did you?
We are happy with Sinead speaking out, so Flo
On yer bike, we have heard enough already from you
The Catholic church corporation has more than enough money already to pay compensation.
They are like Scrooge, not wanting to pay for their past deeds.
Any Irish man or woman who gives a penny to this church is also guilty of colluding with criminals.
The patriarchal church was destined to fall, just like the Roman and British empire as anything based on power and greed has self destruction inbuilt in its hierarchy.
The Universe is watching the people of Ireland- will they side with love or evil.?
The mind boggles as to why they’d need to try to hit up parishioners in the first place? What about all that world-class artwork, sumptuous gold and land holdings? Sell that shite off first…and then let’s talk money.
In fact, much of the artwork they possess was pillaged from other private or national collections in any case. Return it to where it belongs. And stop crying poor, fer chrissakes!
“Transparent,” me arse. The answer is simple: sell your assets. I’m sure Jesus didn’t own much more than a pair of sandals and the clothes on his back. If the Church went back to that state and remembered what the hell their original ‘leader’ taught them, the world would be a better place.