The Sunday Times, February 1, 2004
The head of one victims’ group has accused others of being more interested in state funding than supporting the people they are there to help, write Siobhan Maguire and Dearbhail McDonald
It was the last meeting before Christmas of the National Office for Victims of Abuse (Nova) but the final item on the agenda struck an unseasonal note.
The leaders of victim support groups had been discussing routine matters with officials from the departments of health and education at Nova’s office in Ormond Quay in Dublin. But, clearing his throat, Tom Hayes, the secretary of the Alliance Victim Support Group, said he had one last issue to raise.
The Northern Ireland civil servant said he had a question “about the west of Ireland”. He wanted to discuss “a rumour” that Aislinn, a support group headed by Christine Buckley, had been sending members on free weekend breaks to the city. Hayes wondered how people were selected for these trips and if they were funded by government money.
Buckley, who was abused by the Sisters of Mercy at the Goldenbridge orphanage, was not present at the meeting. But a representative rebutted Hayes’s accusation, and said the drop-in centre for victims was not getting government funding for any such trips.
Hayes’s claims, which he later accepted were based on a misunderstanding, surprised most people at the meeting. Some believed it was a veiled attack against what is considered to be the leading Irish support group for victims of institutional abuse.
Last week Hayes, who spent eight years in an industrial school in Limerick, went public with other reservations he has about the plethora of groups that help victims. Institutional abuse had created a “cottage industry” of support groups, he said. Some of these groups “appeared more interested in receiving state funding than in helping victims”.
The remarks lifted the lid on a simmering dispute. For months, Hayes, whose group claims to represent more than 300 abuse victims, has been making criticisms in private to government officials. He has, in particular, challenged the quality of service offered by state-funded victims’ groups.
Two weeks ago Hayes complained to the departments of health and education — which both fund survivors’ groups — that some victims had claimed they were badly treated at certain groups. He told officials he was concerned about the “volume of complaints” he said he had received about the Cork-based Right of Place, which has assisted 1,800 former residents, and Aislinn, which says it has helped more than 3,500.
Survivor groups reacted angrily when Hayes went public last week. “Tom Hayes is wrong,” said Tony Treacy, the housing officer for Right of Place. “What he has said about us is totally unjust and untrue. He has never even been to see us in Cork.”
Buckley, whose harrowing account of the abuse she suffered featured in the 1996 documentary, Dear Daughter, reacted even more strongly. She instructed solicitors to issue letters warning against any defamatory allegations being made against Aislinn. Through her solicitors, Buckley said that, as far as she is aware, Hayes had no issues with her.
“The Department of Education and the Department of Health have excellent relations with Aislinn, and Buckley has no intimation that any complaint has been received from either,” her solicitors said.
Whatever the truth of Hayes’s charges, his characterisation of a “cottage industry” hit a raw nerve. Why are eight groups, most in receipt of public money, involved in counselling victims? Couldn’t Nova, the government agency, do the job? “It’s about compensation. It is about how much you will get and how long you have to wait for it,” says a victim who was counselled by one group. “The institutional mentality still reigns among survivors, they can’t move on.”
IN MAY 1999, two weeks after RTE screened States of Fear, a documentary detailing the horrors of institutional abuse, Bertie Ahern, the taoiseach, apologised to victims.
Ahern established the Commission to Inquire into Child Abuse, chaired by Justice Mary Laffoy, who resigned last year in a row with the government. The government also set up the Residential Institutions Redress Board — a compensation fund — and told former inmates of industrial schools who suffered physical or sexual abuse they were entitled to damages.
The final bill could be €1 billion, according to John Purcell, the comptroller and auditor general. The average payment to each claimant so far is €80,000.
The extent of the abuse case-load emerged last Friday when Laffoy reported that 4,128 allegations by 1,712 complainants have been brought to the commission.
The united front presented by victims in 1999 soon dissolved. Natural leaders such as Buckley, Hayes and Mick Waters quickly emerged and each set up their own groups.
“All the groups have their own voice, all have their own opinions, and they all see things differently,” says Waters of Survivors of Child Abuse (Soca) UK.
Last year Waters appealed to victims’ groups to unite or face exclusion from the consultation process on the future direction of the child abuse commission. John Kelly of Irish Soca — which has no connection to Soca UK — says groups “have to have a united approach”. But competition between the groups is now more vigorous than ever.
Last year, following huge payouts by the Catholic church to Mervyn Rundle and Colm O’Gorman — victims of paedophile priests — Buckley claimed survivors of institutional abuse were being treated as “third-class citizens” compared with those abused by diocesan priests.
Complicating the matter further, Let Our Voices Emerge (Love), a group of people with positive memories of institutional care, stepped into the arena to defend the religious orders. Buckley branded them “teacher’s pets” and Love retaliated by calling for better auditing procedures for victim support groups.
The Department of Education, which funds Nova, concedes there is no “formal quality control process” to assess the level of services, and “no formal complaints procedure” for dealing with complaints against support groups.
Senior officials privately admit they know all about the fighting. One official says it was “widely known” that conflict and personality clashes had started even before Laffoy was appointed. “This is an all-out turf war,” the official says. Each group “has its own agenda” and is interested in “feathering its own nest”.
“The groups are always having a go at each other and it has been like that for as long as I can remember. We have a remit to work with the support groups and make sure that we meet regularly to discuss any concerns. Of course, if allegations are being made we have to look into them.”
The comptroller is already reviewing a number of victims’ groups’ accounts. But the in-fighting is likely to worsen. Patrick Walsh of Irish Soca has branded Hayes’s comments “irrational” and “offensive”. Hayes remains defiant and believes his claims are being taken seriously by the government.
He also says “a culture of dependency” has engulfed the support groups. “What we have are organisations run for victims by victims, and it is like a vicious circle because victims end up in an environment where the past is always present,” he says.
Patricia Casey, a professor of psychiatry at University College Dublin, agrees this is a possibility. “The inherent danger with self-help groups is that unless they are headed by skilled and qualified facilitators, dependency can be induced and reinforced, rather than healing encouraged,” she says.
Hayes and his supporters want thorough reform. They are not calling for victims groups to be disbanded, but to be managed by fully qualified, independent professionals. But is the government likely to act, or is it still too wary of victims and too embarrassed about its role in turning a blind eye to institutional abuse?
LAST week Christy Mannion, an adviser to Micheal Martin, the health minister, held an informal meeting with Hayes and his wife Ruth, also a member of the alliance group.
The three met in Buswells hotel in Dublin and Hayes outlined his proposals for a uniform, professionally led victims’ group. The civil servant left an impression on Mannion, who found him “very sincere” and promised to raise his concerns with the minister.
The alliance group wants the centre to be under the control of the Department of Health. “It must be open to all victims of institutions and should be aligned to the national office with the overall responsibility vested in professionally trained personnel,” says Hayes. “It would be reasonable to expect that all other issues to do with the smooth running of a government centre such as health and safety, fire, security, confidentiality and a complaints procedure would be established as a matter of form.”
Martin and Noel Dempsey, the minister for education, will soon be briefed by their officials on the conflict between the groups and on ideas to reform the “cottage industry”. But discussions will not begin until the government deals with the criticism contained in Laffoy’s third interim report. Published last Friday, it again castigated the government for its failure to co-operate with the inquiry.
In the meantime, Hayes faces a chilly reception when Nova meets in two weeks. “I have no axe to grind but it is time to see some changes in the way victim support groups are managed and the quality of services being offered to survivors. I’m not going to be quiet. It’s a matter for the government now to step in and take control.”
Fighting for funds
Nova: the government agency established in 2000 to deal with the support groups. Nova got €460,000 from the Department of Education in 2001-2003
Aislinn Centre: Set up in 1999 by Christine Buckley. Since then it has received €184,279.56 from the state
One in Four: Set up by Colm O’Gorman. It received €504,000 in 2003
Right of Place: Since it was formed in 1999, Right of Place has received €1,422,476.91 in government funding
Le Cheile Eile: A small, Navan-based support group, it has received €4,000 in government support
Irish Soca: A support group run by John Kelly, it receives no public funding
Soca UK: (No link with above). Led by Mick Waters, it has assisted 1,500 Irish victims resident in Britain and received €162,382
Alliance for the Healing of Institutional Abuse: Led by Tom Hayes, it represents over 300 victims and has received €49,288 in government funding
Right to Peace: A Clonmel-based support group chaired by Michael O’Brien. It has received funding of €35,000
Outreach: A British-based support service which has received €1,357,696
“””Despite the fact that the above article appeared in the Sunday Times in 2004, I thought it worthwhile putting in on this website for information purposes.*** Paddy Doyle 29/10/2010
Mandate for Paddy to Represent Survivors
Will all those in favour of Paddy to act as spokesperson please sign petition below
http://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/mandate-for-paddy-doyle-to-represent-survivors/
Many Thanks Kay
tried to look him up, dead man walking, no result. regards robert
heres what a scumbag on fb thinks of child sexual abuse ..this guy is a predator .info on him can not be published here but any questions to daniel-w@live.ie
o Danny boy, the monks,the monks, are calling ya…………….
November 10 at 5:16pm · View Feedback (2)Hide Feedback (2)
dann,
y dd the monks make ur eyes bulge
November 10 at 5:23pm.
onced again robert thank you for taking the time to write your post .it is im sure what we are all thinking and this is not the first time those group leaders have been asked to explain to us what is going on ! there silence was deafining but now its quite clear there guilty of everything you asked them to explain ! now would the goverment pls take notice of us and get rid of these groups and let survivors have a fair and equal say in what is our lives . please
thats very true Robert
where are these groups now? and what is wrong with using paddy’s site to let us know what they are doing about the banking crises regarding survivors monies?
the statuary fund minus 500 million or more
oh sorry they don’t know,
they have not got a clue,
they do not give a shite,
it is not their problem,
its up to each survivor to find out,
er what banking crises,
er well it is not our fault.
look here you groups made agreements with the government on who’s behalf? the government? oh the religious? oh sorry the banks.
if you claim to represent survivors then you should post your intentions on this site or it is true you have favorites and survivors are last because they have different opinions to you,
no matter what way you groups look at this if you do not use the knowledge you have on contacting survivors/witnesses like this site, that you may not like for “PERSONAL REASONS” then you do NOT represent survivors and this could be used against you, as you claim to represent,=
SURVIVORS OF ABUSE IN INDUSTRIAL SCHOOLS IN IRELAND.
DO YOU OR DO YOU NOT REPRESENT SURVIVORS OF ABUSE?
i believe this has to be challenged because i see a great lack or none at all information directly from you knowing this is a transparent site, with, for and against points of views.
we on this site have the rights to know what your intentions are regarding any political issues to do with
ALL SURVIVORS/WITNESSES OF INDUSTRIAL SCHOOL ABUSE.
if you refuse to publish on this site for us to read what your intentions were and are regarding SURVIVORS OF ABUSE then you are guilty of personal preferences, as this site thanks to PADDY DOYLE is transparent and available to every single survivor all around the world.
worse still you know it.
ALL SURVIVORS OR NONE AT ALL.
the trouble is dead man walking is the truth of it is not one group opposed this not one it was disgusting of so called groups that claim to represent people who were abused as children in the child prisons all around this country.
this is how sick it is.
NOT ONE LEADING FIGURE OPPOSED THIS THEFT IT WAS A PROFESSIONAL JOB DONE ON INNOCENT PEOPLE WHO WERE INNOCENT CHILDREN.
there are no comments here, no debate, no notice taken, no ideas no groups willing to write here because they know they have done us all wrong.
as always robert 100 per cent accurate ! they know we were abused again by the so called independant redress scheme .but yet they add insult by yes stealing 500 million yes 500 MILLION from witnesses
fianna fail the survivors/witnesses, hushed by redress no morals = lost election reason stealing 500 plus million from survivor compensations.
the word fail suits them as in failed.
Any Government in Ireland must return the 500 plus million or their guilt will be their down fall in politics what goes round comes round. Guilt left will always be there until it is put right and guilt will destroy anyone who claims to be honest when they are not.
THATS ALL VERY WELL BUT POPE BENIDICT GAVE HIS OPINION SEVERAL YEARS AGO WHEN HE MADE THE DECISION TO PUT ALL THAT OUT OF HIS MIND AND PRETENEDED THAT THE PEOPLE INVOVLED WERE UNACUSABLE.THIS DECISION WAS MADE VERY CLEAR BY HIS ACTONS. AND HE HAS NOT CHANGED HIS MIND. OTHERWISE MANY OF HIS CLOSE BUDDIES WOULD HAVE FINISHED THIER LIVES IN PRISONS
Tom Hayes a ‘Natural Leader’ ha-ha-ha.
Tom’s membership numbers is made up of people who visited his website …. amongst that membership then would be members of the same Religious Orders who abused us, and also a former member of the De La Salle Christian Brothers who has himself been waging a war against abuse victims and who has shown sterling support to Sister Callida and convicted child-rapist Fr. Paul Shanley.
And is that the same Mr. Kelly who wrote to the pontiff asking him to ‘restore the true Church and honour to the Irish nation’ ? And is he the same guy who met in secret with the Irish bishops …. despite agreeing that he wouldn’t talk to anybody about US without first talking to US ?
John Kelly, Irish SOCA’s Dublin ‘co-ordinator’, said preparations were being made to take the case of the Irish abuse victims to Rome by direct appeal to Pope Benedict for his personal intervention on their behalf. “We call upon Pope Benedict XVI to convene a special consistory court to fully investigate the activities of the Catholic religious orders in Ireland,”
I know that it has all been said, especially on Paddys site.It would be appropiate if the people who are responsible for the disgraceful opera show, ( Screw the survivors) had access to Paddy’s site to observe the discontent shown for many years by us all, but, do you believe that is so,?. No one in the Govt. is listening, at least that is my take. How many survivors does it take to bring attention to our disgust of these groupies, the answer, all. scream from the top of the rooftops, let the newspapers hear your voice, they have the pull to topple the corruption in the govt. complaing on Paddys site will not work one iota. I have and will continue to do as I say, but I am one person only, all, whether you agree with me or not, it is your fight now. Disband all the groups, distribute the compesation evenly to all the survivors to do with it as they see fit for their familys, no more filling out pages of Education and Science garbage pages with cap in hand, only 25% of beggars from Industrial Schools have been successful in their claims using the garbage papers, unbelieviable. I apologise to my fellow survivors for my attitude.
Seanie.
just proves she was after the money and not after the rights of survivors if she goes this way about things as she should be asking why survivors are not happy with so called support groups.
another threat? charming woman who cares so much about survivors she wants to take them to court to sue them for money.
nothing changes then
the government should be questioned thoroughly about this and now by the media in public if rte is not controlled by the government since this is so called public tax paying money as this corrupt government put it when they took away the financial support for survivors from the religious.
So if anyone says anything about how the Aisleen centre is being run they will be sued by Christine Buckley. that’s a very strange way of being open and honest.
Why do they keep on giveing money to the groups,by now the Government and everyone invole must know they are of on benefit to survivors.My brother or myself have never received any help from any group nor did we ever asked.So please stop giving them money that rightfully belongs to survivors.
by the way sorry to go on but paddy made the best statement of all when he said
“IT IS NOT ALL ABOUT MONEY”
because that is exactly what went wrong with these groups.
“IT IS ABOUT THE NEEDS OF EACH AND EVERY SINGLE SURVIVOR, HOW THEIR LIVES HAVE BEEN AFFECTED BY THE SHEER ABUSE OF THEIR CHILDHOOD. IT IS A TOTAL DISGRACE TO THE GOVERNMENT THE RELIGIOUS AND THESE GROUPS THAT HAVE NOW CAUSED SO MUCH PAIN”.
due to these cuts in welfare/disabilities many survivors have to pay out of their own pockets for the damage caused by this government and church.
such as depression, dental, homes and so on.
I DO NOT HEAR ANY GROUP IN THE MEDIA FIGHTING FOR THOSE RIGHTS OF MITIGATING CIRCUMSTANCES ON BEHALF OF THE SUFFERING CAUSED TO SURVIVORS.
OH YES OF COURSE THEY WILL SAY THE STATUARY FUND WILL PAY FOR THAT WELL AFTER THEIR WAGES ARE PAID FIRSTLY THEN THE BILLS THEN THE BUILDINGS THEY RENT OR MAINTAIN.
THIS SOUNDS LIKE BUILDING ANOTHER CHURCH SO GOD CAN SLEEP AT NIGHT. YES THAT WAS A JOKE BUT SO ARE THESE GROUPS.
BY CLAIMING THEY REPRESENTED PEOPLE THEY DID NOT EVEN KNOW
BY CLAIMING THEY REPRESENTED PEOPLE WHEN THEY WERE NOT QUALIFIED.
BY CLAIMING TO REPRESENT PEOPLE AND RECEIVED MONEY IN THEIR NAMES.
BY CLAIMING THEY REPRESENTED PEOPLE AT THE DAIL WITHOUT A MANDATE
BY CLAIMING THEY REPRESENTED PEOPLE WITHOUT VISITING THEM IN THEIR HOMES, OR CONTACTING THEM BY THE PHONE.
BY CLAIMING THEY REPRESENTED PEOPLE WITHOUT WRITTEN PROOF
BY CLAIMING THEY REPRESENTED PEOPLE WITHOUT THEIR PROBLEMS IN WRITINGS
BY CLAIMING THEY REPRESENTED PEOPLE WITHOUT ANY WRITTEN STRUCTURE/RECORDS AND SUCH.
BY CLAIMING THEY REPRESENTED PEOPLE WITHOUT ANY CAUSE
BY CLAIMING THEY REPRESENTED PEOPLE WITHOUT WRITTEN VOTES
BY CLAIMING THEY REPRESENTED PEOPLE WITHOUT ANY HOMES
BY CLAIMING THEY REPRESENTED PEOPLE THEY KNOW NOTHING ABOUT
BY CLAIMING THEY REPRESENTED PEOPLE THEY TITLED SURVIVORS OF ABUSE
BUT IF THE SOLICITORS REPRESENTED SURVIVORS THEN WHAT DID THESE GROUPS DO?
I PERSONALLY THINK THEY SHOULD PAY BACK EVERY PENNY TO THE FUNDS THEY CLAIMED FROM.
IF THEY CLAIM ANYTHING IT IS FOR THEMSELVES BECAUSE THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT THEY DID.
ALL THEY HAD TO DO IF THEY REALLY CARED AT ALL IN THE FIRST PLACE IS NOTIFY PEOPLE ABOUT THE NEWS OF SURVIVORS COMING FORWARD TO GIVE EVIDENCE AGAINST THE RELIGIOUS AND GOVERNMENT.
HOW MUCH INFORMATION DO THEY HAVE ON THE NEEDS OF EACH AND EVERY PERSON THEY CLAIM TO REPRESENT?
TO REPRESENT SOMEONE YOU MUST HAVE ALL THE NEEDS OF THAT PERSON YOU CLAIM TO REPRESENT IN RECORD FORMS AND THE SUCH.
SO WHERE ARE ALL THESE DOCUMENTS ON EACH PERSON THEY CLAIM THEY REPRESENT.
WHAT ARE THEIR WELFARE NEEDS? ARE THEY HOMELESS? HEALTH RECORDS?
FAMILY RECORDS?
EDUCATIONAL RECORDS
HOW DID THESE GROUPS CARRY OUT THE SUPPORT THEY CLAIMED.
WE NEED THE PROOF NOW.
IF THEY HAVE NONE OR ONLY A FEW BITS AND PIECES OF INFORMATION ON ANY PERSON, THEN THEY HAVE FAILED VERY BADLY INDEED. AND HEADS SHOULD ROLL AND EVERY BRICK UPTURNED.
TO PROOVE THEY REPRESENTED ANYONE BUT THEMSELVES TO THIS GOVERNMENT.
THE WHOLE THING THEN NEEDS QUESTIONING ONCE AND FOR ALL.
OR HAVE THE ABUSED BEEN DONE OVER ONCE AGAIN?
BY THE GOVERNMENT AND THESE SO CALLED KANGAROO GROUPS.
Iknow that i gave my name and address to the nova office THE AISLEEN CENTRE. and i have never heard a word since .Ihave no information except on this site .If thay are using my name to swell thier numbers then wnonehat thay are doing is cruel and dishonest.
oh what web of deceit .no group has ever helped me nor anyone i know of ….
we are witnesses of a horrid crime against children by both the government and the religious now we are witnesses of the complete neglect of all groups.
the whole triangle of abuse has just come to the surface.
just how much money was claimed on behalf of the names of supposed survivors claimed to be members?
why so many groups and why do they differ one from the other?.
this whole issue stinks from the very top ( the government to these groups) to the bottom.
the fat cats clawed away the whole support for PEOPLE who suffered in these schools because they were not aware of the misleading information they were receiving, that would lead to these innocent PEOPLE into a false sense of security.
I DO NOT BELIEVE WE SHOULD FOCUS ON THE STATURARY FUND AS IT WAS SAID ON HERE BEFORE WE TALK ABOUT THE 500 MILLION PLUS THE GOVERNMENT TOOK FROM US.
WE CAN ALL WRITE HERE ON OUR VIEWS BUT WHEN IT COMES TO IT WE NEED THE ANSWERS ONCE AND FOR ALL WHY HAS SO MUCH MONEY BEEN CLAIMED ON BEHALF OF SURVIVORS YET THE VERY PEOPLE THEY CLAIM TO REPRESENT, HAVE HAD NOTHING WORTH HAVING FROM THE WHOLE TRIANGLE (GOVERNMENT, RELIGIOUS, GROUPS) WHO CLAIMED A LOT OF MONEY ON BEHALF OF THE SURVIVORS.
Always a pleasure learning Irish. :-)
Thanks!