Friday, September 18, 2009
PATSY McGARRY Religious Affairs Correspondent
FORMER RESIDENTS of Magdalen laundries are not eligible for compensation from the Residential Institutions Redress Board, Minister for Education Batt O’Keeffe has said.
“The Magdalen laundries were privately-owned and operated establishments which did not come within the responsibility of the State. The State did not refer individuals to the Magdalen laundries nor was it complicit in referring individuals to them,” he said.
He also pointed out that the laundries were not subject to State regulation or supervision and so had not been listed in the schedule to the Residential Institutions Redress Act, 2002.
Mr O’Keeffe was replying in a letter to Tom Kitt TD, who had made representations to the Minister concerning former residents of the laundries.
He did so on behalf of James Smith, associate professor at the English department and Irish studies programme in Boston College and author of Irelands Magdalen Laundries and the Nation’s Architecture of Containment , (2008, Manchester University Press). In his letter, Mr O’Keeffe made the point that “in terms of establishing a distinct scheme for former employees of the Magdalen laundries, the situation in relation to children who were taken into the laundries privately or who entered the laundries as adults is quite different to persons who were resident in State-run institutions.”
An exception to this, he said,would be children who were transferred from a State-regulated institution to a Magdalen laundry and suffered abuse while resident there.
“The justification for this [latter] provision is that the State was still responsible for the welfare and protection of children transferred to a Magdalen laundry from a State-regulated institution provided they had not been officially discharged from the scheduled institution,” he said.
Expressing gratitude to Mr Kitt for his efforts in the case on behalf of the Justice for Magdalens group, Dr Smith challenged the Minister’s use of the word “employees” when referring to women in the laundries.
“They were never ‘employees . . . if they were they would have received payment surely,” he said.
He continued: “If the Minister insists that they were ‘employees’ then surely the State holds some responsibility to ensure that the laundries complied with the Factories Acts in terms of safe work practices, fair pay, regular work days, etc.”
He also insisted that the State was complicit in referring women to the laundries.
“The Irish courts routinely referred women to various Magdalen laundries upon receiving suspended sentences for a variety of crimes, and I have archival documents detailing communication between judges and mothers superior of a number of convents arranging such referrals,” he said.
“Likewise I can document that these women were escorted by the States probation officers upon entry to the laundries. There is no record of the probation officers checking to ensure such women were released upon the end of their suggested period of confinement,” he said.
Magdelen laundries: a brief history of the institutions
THE FIRST Magdalen laundry opened on Dublin’s Leeson Street in 1767. After the Famine, four female Catholic religious congregations came to dominate the running of the laundries.
These were the Sisters of Mercy (SM), Sisters of Charity (SC), Sisters of our Lady of Charity of Refuge (SCR), and the Good Shepherd Sisters (GSS).
The latter congregation operated a Magdalen laundry in Belfast until 1977.
Altogether there were 10 Catholic Magdalen laundries in the Republic following independence. These were at Waterford (GSS), New Ross (SC), two in Cork (GSS and SC), Limerick (GSS), Galway (SM), and four in Dublin at Dún Laoghaire (SM), Donnybrook (SC), Drumcondra (SCR) and Gloucester/Seán MacDermott Street (SCR).
The last one in Ireland ceased operation at Gloucester/Seán MacDermott Street 13 years ago, in October 1996.
There was one Protestant-run “Magdalen Asylum” at Leeson Street in Dublin, which ceased to function as such in 1918/19 (though continuing as a baby home) and one in Belfast which operated until the 1960s.
Although there is dispute as to whether the (privately) Protestant-run Bethany House in Dublin’s Rathgar was a “Magdalen Asylum”, there are records of women being referred there by the courts.
It is not known how many women passed through these laundries, but as many as 10,000 passed through them in the 19th century, some of whom may have re-entered the laundries on a number of occasions.
Figures for the 20th century are unknown.
The religious congregations have not released any records for women entering the laundries after 1900.
However, hundreds of Magdalen women were interred in mass-burial plots at Glasnevin (115), St Laurences in Limerick (265), Bohermore in Galway (118), with a further 72 “consecrated Magdalen’s” buried at Forster Street there.
Many more are believed buried at the convent sites of other former laundries.
The Irish Times
Check Page 50 on this PDF from Waterford Co Council
” INTRODUCTION: The site of St.Martinls Castle ‘ has been marked on the Ordinance Survey maps of Waterford but until 1979 St. Martin’s Orphanage, attached to the Convent of the Sisters of Charity, occupied the site and obscured its earlier history. Even while the orphanage existed there were visible indications that the remains of an earlier stone building stood intact on the site. Egan records that the butresses of two towers were visible beneath the walls of the laundry in 1894 and Power confirms this fifty years latcr.2 ”
http://snap.waterfordcoco.ie/collections/ejournals/100739/100739-2.pdf
In the same paragraph they describe it as and ‘orphanage’ AND as a ‘laundry’
I am trying to lodge a late claim for someone who was in this place around 1956. We are being told that it closed as an orphanage in 1950 and was then a ‘training school’ and therefore not within the Redress Scheme. I am interested in looking further into this. Any information that may help us, please forward to declan@dugganandcosolicitors.ie
Mary, is this the School :
http://homepage.eircom.net/~stmartinsspecial/school.html
hello
has anyone either heard of or been to “st martins”school waterford in the 50ties , it was really a laundry run by the sisters of charity (aikenhead) and the abuse that went on hthere was horrific i cannot find anything about it and the sisters of charity have neatly written it out of their history, its reverened mother, was mother perpetua,and other sisters were sr finian,emanual,gregory, daniel, helena, patrick, joseph, staniclause,aquines, and sr joseph peter the girls there under the gise of it being a school endured little more than salavery, i was one of them
Having just started researching our family tree we have discovered that my husbands grandmother was an ‘inmate’ at the magdelene laundry in Limerick. I am now researching more about the laundries and would love to help document any survivors accounts. Unfortunately, Bridget, my husbands grandmother died back in 1996 and all the family were oblivious to her past, believing that she simply lived in a convent and worked in a laundry! She came to live in England as a live in nanny / housekeeper to my husbands grandfather having lost his wife and being left with 7 young children. She eventually married my husbands grandad and bore him another 14 or so children (my father in law being the 3rd).
When we first started our family history research we obviously started by asking living relatives their stories and it became apparent that Bridget had never really divulged anything much about her Irish past – now we know why!!
Justice must be done on behalf of all these brave woman and children and I would be honoured to help.
I can be contacted at chele510@aol.com
A suitable celebration of the rising of 1916 would be the placement of the Ryan Report, the Ferns Report, the Dublin Report, The Moore Report, The Kennedy Report and all repressive legislation enacted since the rising on the steps of the GPO on Easter Sunday morning.” Celebratin a 100 years of Roman Catholic terror against Irish children” would be a suitable caption.
Paddy, is there a radio jounalist in Ireland who can make that journey to that old woman in America?.She was once 14 and then it all happened.She no longer is afraid, Those who fear her speaking are hoping she will not be afforded that chance.How can we help that woman become free and put that burden where it rightly belongs. Clare, my respect to you for standing by her side,Paddy there must be one person who can do it for her,
I’m sure I’ve said this on here before, but I’ll say it again anyway.
What the vast majority of Irish people don’t seem to realise is that ALL of us were systematically used and abused, i.e., psychologically raped (and sometimes, physically raped) as children, by the so-called adults who took it upon themselves to govern this country of ours. In many cases (most, I would say) these people included our own parents/primary guardians, who colluded with the Authorities aka the Catholic Church and the Irish Government in this systematic routine abuse of Irish children – over many generations. One didn’t need to be incarcerated as a child in an Industrial School or a Magdalene Laundry in order to be routinely subjected to the insane barbaric treatment of those in power: ALL children born to and raised by parents who regard themselves as Good Catholics, i.e., obedient servants to Rome, were automatically emotionally abused and violated, as though that is a normal and sane way to treat children. It isn’t and never will be.
Hello Clare,your article touched me and I wish I could help. She is old and for many time is running out which the evil people hope will silence them forever.The Jews know the value of the untold stories from the death camps and are working to document as much as possible before it,s too late. We are in accute need of a”Documentation Center” standing free from State and Church. Paddy is there any way we can help her?.
Dear Paddy,
Well done on your consistent good work on our behalf!
I would hazard a guess that every member of our present government were educated by our Religious congregations in their formative years so the subservience that was instilled in them for the church must not and should not be overlooked!
They are still in collusion with the Church over the many ‘issues’ that are coming to light. We as the abused of this state will not, cannot and should not expect justice in any form, after all, didn’t Justice Mary Lafoy state it eloquently in her letter of resignation to the Redress Board that the remit she was given by the Dept. of Ed. was being hindered at every step by the very same department. Get this on an international footing as I don’t believe there is a solicitor in the country brave enough to take them on! That’s a fact! All one has to do is remind ourselves of how the Law Society fobbed off a 77 year old when he contacted them over being double charged by his solicitor for Redress business! These sagas could be unfolded ad infinitum but who really cares … and if so … as I’ve suggested before this …. GET UP OFF YOUR ARSES – MAGUIRE are you up for it? I like your passion – an honest emotion!
Hi Claire- that Lady has to be given a chance somehow to tell her story- so she can release her soul from the pent up misery contained in her body.
Where are the ghost writers when you need them.?
We have to find a way through the media to collect as many stories as possible and document them for history, lest the truth be forgotten.
I am sure we can come up with a solution- one writer could spend a week with each victim and it could all be documented quickly.
Where there is a will, there is a way, and I sure would not give the old boys the satisfaction of the truth dying with all these victims.
“in terms of establishing a distinct scheme for former employees of the Magdalen laundries, the situation in relation to children who were taken into the laundries privately or who entered the laundries as adults is quite different to persons who were resident in State-run institutions”
So the State is now condoning a Catholic Cult who legally kidnapped and imprisoned women and children against their will, forced them to work in labour camp conditions, and he thinks the Human people of the Earth will say- ah sure twas in the past, it is all right, they were only women whores and disposable children after all.
Just like the Sacred Goddess Mary Magdalene-aptly named I see- the powerful females were demonised and kept in their place in this Patriarchal society.
Dear Paddy- they are about to meet that Goddess in Eire- but as yet they are too full of themselves to believe she is about to strip the elite and the church bare.
Paddy, I should like to reply to Charles O’Rourke to whom I have just spoken to on the phone at home.
Charles, thanks for that little chat. Got to work on time. Talk to you again soon I hope. God Bless.
Thanks very much for that kind offer Martin. I’m sure there are people that would love to chat to you.
An employee would have been able to claim expenses, the Magdalen women could not claim expenses and certainly not to the amount the Minister claimed between 2004 and 2008 – €205,368 which is equal to €987 a week – approx. €51,000 a year!
The average ‘award’ at the Redress Board is €63,320!
Sorry paddy, I read the article and lost my breath, The “Gombeen Culture” has shown it,s face and I want to vomit.How does Ireland cultivate such personalities as O’Keefe, What mental landscape does that man dwell in?. “Employees” Goebbels would have liked that one. Sorry Paddy but I have no use for neutral or polite words here, not when the face of “Catholic Gombeenism” shows it,self and in an assembly with real power. The same power that sent so many women to these labour camps run by pious nuns. Paddy! let me ask questions. Coming up to the 100th anniversary of the Easter Rising What are we to celebrate?. What is there to be proud of?. All that suffering to what use? Who won and who lost by the creation of that Republic? Personally I can not find anything to be proud of let alone celebrate. O’Keefe and the “Gombeen Class” are a huge reason for that.
“The Magdalen laundries were privately-owned and operated establishments which did not come within the responsibility of the State. The State did not refer individuals to the Magdalen laundries nor was it complicit in referring individuals to them,” he said.
UNTRUE
He also pointed out that the laundries were not subject to State regulation or supervision and so had not been listed in the schedule to the Residential Institutions Redress Act, 2002.
GIRLS/WOMEN WERE SENT THERE BY THE STATE
He did so on behalf of James Smith, associate professor at the English department and Irish studies programme in Boston College and author of Irelands Magdalen Laundries and the Nation’s Architecture of Containment , (2008, Manchester University Press). In his letter, Mr O’Keeffe made the point that “in terms of establishing a distinct scheme for former employees of the Magdalen laundries, the situation in relation to children who were taken into the laundries privately or who entered the laundries as adults is quite different to persons who were resident in State-run institutions.”
THEY WERE NOT EMPLOYEES BY CHOICE – ENTER OR STARVE – READ THE 1923 ACT – AS ABOVE
An exception to this, he said,would be children who were transferred from a State-regulated institution to a Magdalen laundry and suffered abuse while resident there.
YOU WILL NEVER FIND DOCUMENTS TO SHOW A TRANSFER EVER TOOK PLACE, NO DOCUMENT, NO PROOF.
He also insisted that the State was complicit in referring women to the laundries.
“The Irish courts routinely referred women to various Magdalen laundries upon receiving suspended sentences for a variety of crimes, and I have archival documents detailing communication between judges and mothers superior of a number of convents arranging such referrals,” he said.
THE COURT’S WERE COMPLICIT WITH THE RELIGIOUS IN PROVIDING FREE LABOUR FOR THE LAUNDERIES FULLY KNOWING THE GIRLS WOULD NOT BE PAID OR CARED FOR PROPERLY.
IN ORDER TO REFER A PERSON TO AN ORGANISATION ONE WOULD EXPECT THAT THE PERSON/COURT MAKING THE REFERRAL HAS ALL THE INFORMATION (SUCH AS IT’S RUNNING, CONDUCT, OPERATING FACILITIES, ACCOMMODATION FACILITIES. OR PUT ANOTHER WAY, THE PLACE HAS BEEN INSPECTED AND FOUND TO BE OF PROPER STANDING – THAT IS IF THE COURT IS TO REFER PROPERLY. “WHERE ARE THE DOCUMENTS SHOWING THE REPORT TO THAT EFFECT”?
NO SUCH DOCUMENTS EXIST.
“The Irish courts routinely referred women to various Magdalen laundries upon receiving suspended sentences for a variety of crimes, and I have archival documents detailing communication between judges and mothers superior of a number of convents arranging such referrals,” he said.
JUDGES AND MOTHER’S SUPERIOR – THAT IS INTERESTING. WERE NOT JUDGES PERMITTED TO BE ON THE BOARDS OF CHARITIES – READ THE CHARITIES ACT 1926.
“All – need I continue” ???? – I rest my case M’Lud
Paddy, if anyone wishes to speak to me regarding the above:
UK :- 0044 1274 549334 – Anytime
LIAR LIAR – PANTS ON FIRE. Don’t believe a word of what they say, Ministers, that is.
“All” – Read LOCAL GOVERNMENT (TEMPORARY PROVISIONS) ACT, 1923 – FIRST SCHEDULE, GALWAY COUNTY SCHEME, (UNMARRIED MOTHERS) on page 13 of 86.
This document is very interesting, and goes a long way to repudiate any statement the Minister made in relation to the workers in the Magdalene Laundries, and as to whether or not they were there on a voluntary basis. You will find that the women were most certainly not there voluntarily. Further, there is reference to “Other Institutions”
“GOT YA”
Paddy, I should like to add my two penneth again. Just to hammer it home to the powers that be, consider the following which, in agreeing with Martin Maguire and all of you who have posted a reply, I should just like to re paste a couple of my former stories, sent to Paddy some years ago:-
“STATE IN BREACH OF 21 OF THE 30 ARTICLES ON THE UNIVERSAL DECLARATION OF HUMAN RIGHTS 1949” as follows.
The state, from 1949 to the present day was, and remains, in breach of Articles 1 to 13 (inclusive), 19,22,23,25,26,28,29 and 30.
When one reads the declaration it becomes very clear why. What is going to be done to rectify this situation for all of us unjustly treated?
Having been a resident at two of these institutions from age three to twelve, and subsequently spent the rest of my life trying to make sense of what these people had done to myself and 3 other members of my family and having the privilege of being able to read (on the Internet) the various articles/reports etc I am not at all surprised that in spite of Mr Aherns’ apology, that the Church and the powers that be still try to find ways of distorting the truth by clouding the waters to the extent that in the end, the real reason for the very existence of the Commission in the first place fades into oblivion and the victims are (yet again) abused in a more cunning manner by the very department that is guilty of the Physical, Emotional and Psychological torment inflicted years ago.
It is my view that the Department of Education and Science should never have been allowed to play a part in any aspect of this enquiry since it has its own (bad) reputation to (somehow) salvage.
Justice Mary Laffoy was right in her resignation and is, in my view, the only Honourable member of the original higher echelon of the Commission.
What I do not seem to be able to understand is – if now people are refuting what we say – why would Mr Ahern and the Church elders (The Pope Included) find it necessary to apologize in the first place? I for one will be expecting some sort of apology on a personal basis when my time comes to appear, though I read that even the Investigation Commission is to be albeit scrapped as too costly, why am I not surprised.
As far as false allegations go, I am of the opinion that due to the passage of time etc, people dying etc it becomes ever easier to refute what people such as I say.
Yes Mr Dempsey should go and go now before he does even more damage to the very people he is charged to now help.
Let me conclude by saying that although I am now nearly 48 years old I have (through the actions or negligence of his department) spent 45 years living as someone other than the person I was born as.
I only know this by studying the people my children are becoming as they grow and I realise, yes (in my Sons case) there go I but for what other people changed me into.
I lost all of my family, and I mean all, we are strangers and those that I never got to meet are no longer living.
My only hope for the future is my children who have never and will never experience what I and many thousands of others had so to do.
OR PUT ANOTHER WAY, THEY JUST KEEP UP THE “DENY” “DENY” “DENY” ATTITUDE. WE THE INJURED KNOW THE TRUTH, AND THANK GOD WE DO.
Yes Paddy, it is indeed scandalous!!! But what really pisses me off is the way the Irish people are so f***ing apathetic to this (same ol Roman Catholic) “government” of ours! What are we, as a people? A bunch of punch-drunk masochists or morons or what?!
Certainly the Irish government has a bureau of labour or some such, to make sure the “employees” received honest wages and were treated fairly?
Seems only the catholic church was able to run slave labour camps well into the 20th century, with government complicity.
The church should have had the words “Arbeit Macht Frei” above the entrance to every forced labour camp, as there was no real difference between them and the Nazi’s. The one big difference was, the Nazi’s treated the child inmates better before killing them.
There’s compensation and protection for bankers and developers but none for incarcerated innocents. And mister O’Keefe should not presume that he has said the last thing on this matter – he’s just a ‘here today and gone tomorrow’ politician. The idea that governments can turn a blind eye to massive human rights abuses is long gone. Since the foundation of this state all governments aided and abetted known religious orders as they disappeared women into the Magdalen laundries, governments turned a blind eye to baby trafficking by these known religious orders. No mister O’Keefe (may I call you Batty?) your word is not the last on this matter – and if you think this matter is closed they you ARE batty.
Unbelievable, Paddy. But from the same minister who is savaging our children’s education, even dropping their school library funding and removing the miserly subsidy from the gifted kids programme at DCU.
No wonder my 10-year-old son has christened him Vampire Bat O’Keeffe.
“The Magdalen laundries were privately-owned and operated establishments which did not come within the responsibility of the State.”
Do they think we are all stupid as to believe this.
It is so typical of the state to deny responsibility for this.
Of course, girls were only females after all.
Paddy- you will find that by law the state is responsible- as the church is an institution on THE Sovereign Land of Eire.
Everything that happens on our sovereign soil is our responsibility- WE ARE THE STATE- all citizens of Eire- the Government are servants of the people. The Church is a servant of the people.
The State and Church are and were bed partners- so now let them accept responsibility for their actions like adults would.
Thanks Paddy, I am sending this world wide this morning for all humans to see our SPINELESS servants bowing to the Vatican Boys as usual.
Hi:
I know many people will consider my comments as “old chestnuts” vis a vis the fact that many, if not all forms of abuse can be seen to breach the Constitutional rights of Irish citizens.
I have made this suggestion before to people who have been involved in resolving this ongoing issue of elected representatives, who happen to currently be in positions of power, and indeed the advice they are receiving is potentially unconstitutional.
If there is ever going to be a solution to this state of affairs and indeed closure for the many who suffered, then it is time for an appropriate person, one who has suffered in the past and indeed in many cases continue to suffer, will need to pursue an action under the Constitution.
My own personal feelings on this issue of abuse suggests that the fact that the “Magdelenes” are perceived by the Minister not to be eligible, might indeed be doing them a favour – in that they would not be subject to the constraints of this process, specifically with regard to the penal approaches taken in regard to revealing information from their processes and decisions.
I strongly believe that it is now well past the time for a Constitutional action to be taken. I realise that this is a large step for someone to consider, but in the name of whatever god you follow, it needs to be done.
It is now the only way that this whole issue of Church State can be brought into an open forum.
It is the only way that the people of Ireland can really exercise their rights to manage and conclude the actions of these perverse organised, state supported by different levels of action or indeed inaction.
Someone with the capacity to take such an action has to show the various arms of state that this fundamental legal document setting out how Ireland should be governed and the rights of Irish citizens, does on fact protect the rights of all and indeed the weaker more easily exploited members of our society, particularly against the main institutions of the state
Judicial review is the only way forward as the High Court in Ireland can supervise the Oireachtas to make sure that legislation does not conflict with the Constitution.
There are various ways in which the actions of many religious organisations have breached the fundamental rights of people who were ostensibly in their care:
The fundamental rights under the Irish Constitution recognise and declare that we have certain fundamental personal rights, natural human rights – they come from being human and are confirmed and protected by same.
I list these and suggest that for many individuals, not one or some but many of these have been broken by the actions of and as a corollary, the inaction and ongoing deviousness of the State in its form represented by the Oireachtas
Right to Life
Right to Personal Liberty
Inviolability of Dwelling
Religious Liberty
Right to Freedom of Association
Right to Earn a Livelihood
Right to Freedom of Assembly
Right to Fair Procedures
Right to Privacy
Right to Trial by Jury
Right to Bodily Integrity
Equality before the Law
Right to Freedom of Expression
Rights of the family
Freedom to Travel
I would consider that any former Magdalene would have had at least half of the above rights breached.
Martin Maguire
Shame Shame Shame on us still ! In this morally-bankrupt society of ours, we are still piling insults on injuries, like our hearts were made of stone. Mannix Flynn spoke about this last night with Vincent Browne, you could taste the embarassement with Vincent. Yet today, the radio marks the anniversary of the pope’s visit 40 years ago. And of course, fresh on the heels of the multi-billions bale-out of our banks…. Paddy: in view of the possibly-imminent elections, as well as the publication of the Dublin Report: could you prepare a “shopping list” of items to put to the political candidates when they canvass for our vote? With ALL the issues, one by one, which need to be addressed or enforced. A list which could be updated with each fresh new scandal as they emerge into our reality.
Dear Paddy
I’m In America and just read this. You are probably asleep. Curiously enough just as I was reading it a woman I help now and again phone me to ask me when the therapist would be calling her. It’s a long story Paddy, she’s an old woman and used to be in a Magdalen laundry in Ireland. I told her about the article I was just reading on the computer, and what I did was I read it out to her. I now wish Paddy I didn’t do that, cause I just put the phone down and she was crying. Like she has nothing left now to sort of live for. She really wanted to tell her story and make people believe that this happen to her. it’s her story and I’m the only one listening. She’s an old woman paddy. She did say to me if she had the money she would love to gather up a few other women like her who were sent to the Laundries in Ireland when they were very young, she was 14 Paddy, and she said she would like to go and tell the people her story and she didn’t care if they believed her or not she would die a happy woman knowing that her story was told and it would never happen again. The other thing she said paddy was she didn’t care if she got a “DIM” or not she wanted to tell her story. she’s an old woman now and still seeking therapy paddy. Shame on Ireland, Shame