John Downes, News Investigations Correspondent The Sunday Tribune.
Former mayor of Clonmel Michael O’Brien has received over €61,000 in the past eight years from the state to run his Right to Peace group for survivors of abuse.
O’Brien, who has repeatedly stressed in media interviews that he has not personally sought or received any money for himself, also received some €10,000 from the Rosminian Order over the past decade to help cover the cost of running his group.
The most recent payment of €4,000 was made in February of this year. The registered address which the Department of Education holds for the group is O’Brien’s family home. However, he says he has used most of the money provided to the group to rent offices in Clonmel over the years, with rent payments covered directly by South Tipperary VEC, which administers the money on the department’s behalf.
According to Department of Education figures, Right to Peace has received a total of €61,202 in funding since 2002. This includes a sum of €12,000 paid in 2002, and €6,000 in advance funding for this year.
“Right to Peace has received funding from this department for the provision of an information and referral service since 2002,” he said. “In 2008 funding (of €1,574) for Right to Peace did not include office rental. Since the Ryan report was published the level of enquiries has increased and funding was provided in 2009 for office rental.”
Fr Joe O’Reilly, provincial of the Rosminian Order, which ran St Joseph’s Industrial School in Ferryhouse, said the Rosminians have given O’Brien around €10,000 “to support the establishment and running of his office, Right to Peace, for his services to other survivors.
“All monies were given for the establishment and running of his office for the benefit of survivors. Nothing was given for him personally. No compensation was given to him personally,” he said.
O’Brien confirmed the details of the funding when contacted last week.
May 23, 2010
Paddy will you give Nuala and Anne my email. If they would like it, I understand if they don’t want it. Margaret.
Paddy thanks for you services (letting us use you computer)Before i am corrected for my little knowledge of Irish, I should have said Hello as Dia Dhaoibh.However, it is pronounced Dia Geev, also does anyone out there know how to put a fada above a vowel on there computer? I put an extra a in slan, because I don’t know how to put the fada over the a. Thanks guys I love to talk to you. Maggie. Lets all unite over our compensation,!
dia geev,We as victims have heard enough. We must stop the rhetoric and take some action. We are all being used as doormats! Maggie. Slaan.
paddy it seems they all want to blame the messenger ! the damage has been done by group leaders so called groups etc ! they just want work off our backs ! education for me is hopeless with my mental state
I was at a meeting in the Department of Education and the term STATUTORY EDUCATION was used all the time as that’s what the fund is going to be. Paddy.
Paddy, I don’t know what meeting your were at but I was there, “TRUSTFUND” was the only word mentioned. What is your understanding of a Statute Fund. A Statute is an enactment of a legislative body expressed in a formal document, this document is a permanent rule made by a body or an institution so how does this relate to our situation. Kind regards, Nuala.
no matter what its called .now we must beg !
My understanding is that it will be called a STATUTORY FUND and not a TRUST FUND. I pass this on not to dabble in semantics but to impart what I heard. I’m surprised that all the so called “representatives of survivors” who claim to have a mandate and “many hundreds of members” haven’t advised people of this development. Most of the ‘representative group leaders” have been at meetings at the Department of Education. One would have expected, perhaps naively, that they would have posted such information on their websites – assuming they have such things. Paddy.
Hi Anne,
There was a meeting in Dublin on June 17th with the Redress board – they said that Brian Cowen will pass this legislation (trustfund) in September. I believe he will try to do this ASAP.
Nuala. 0871353839
Nuala,
Theres is quite a few of us. Theres is alot going on behind the scenes. This will not happen I can assure you and everyone else.
Please stay intouch..we will receive our compensation.
Best regards
Anne.07895479387
my mistake david , way too many dead and gone .seems to me anyone who took there own lives and sadly passed on was such a conveinence for the religious !! if there is a god ! then what wud he think of his servants of god ? the way they have and are acting tells me they dont belive there own hype ! there all going to hell
I knew what you meant Dead Man Walking and I totally agree with you. And your reasons for a Memorial I fully endorse. It should indeed be in memory to all those who were abused and to all those who lost their lives within the institutions from hell. Take care.
David I never meant not to have a memorial . I was saying what a memorial would mean to me and that is remembering those who never made it
Paddy, I have sent in my opinion as to the memorial to Peter. Thank you for facilitating the expression of my opinion. This is what being given a voice means. It was a good idea to put up the link to the memorial committee on your site and would some one put up a petition link by permission of Paddy so as we can put forward our elected ombudsman and prevent the horse dealing that is waiting in the shadows. Plans are being made for us and we are sitting ducks.
I agree about hidden graves , Since there are graves named the unknown solders , why not a place for the unknown children , Our childhoods were buried, I think it would englobe many things to us .
Plain and simple, give the compensation to the individual people, how we spend it is up to us, it’s our money. Close down ALL support groups and end this once and for all (Closure). However, the Government has other ideas i.e. to put the money in a trust fund controlled by whoever they appoint, to be distributed as they see fit. Once again we are being browbeaten and treated like s???. Get a grip Lads, Cowen will get his way unless we all stand together march on Dublin and show Brien Cowen that it’s us he should be talking to. Nuala
Ditto to your last comments Dead Man Walking. Where I was brought up many of the children who died (natural causes or otherwise) were bruied in an unmarked grave in the local village. It was not until many years later (in the 80’s) that a headstone was erected in their memory. But no names, simply because no one could recall who exactly died (not even kept in record books). What a disgrace for a Catholic country. A Memorial is a Must.
for me a memorial means we remember those who amongst us died in industrial schools and those who took there own lives as they could not bear to go on living .god if there is one rest there souls . we most never forget them x
Margaret to have a Memorial does not mean that you will be a victim forever. To have a Memorial would be part of the history of Ireland and it is only fitting that future generations know about the Irish gulags better known as Catholic Institutions and the abuse that occured within them. The beatings, starvations, free laboured work my the Magadline Women, this should not be kept hidden. A Memorial is an acknowledgement of all that suffering and Ireland should never be allowed to forget it. Just as long as a Memorial is not kept indoors (where buildings are locked shut at certain times of the day (i.e.5pm) and should be out in the open for all to see.
Re: Memorial, I do not want a memorial,as I do not want to be a victim for ever. The Council in Ennis Co Clare have put up a memorial to victims/ Where is it? In the Council Building. (Very few know about it.)
At the moment there is nobody that I know of who knows what the Memorial will be. All of that will come out in a consultation process with people who were abused while in institutions and elsewhere. Paddy.
Paddy, A memorial of any nature must commemorate something worth remembering. Are we to have a memorial that reflects the sordid treatment of survivors?. First and foremost the government must compensate the survivors fully to the value of their stolen childhoods and for illegal incarceration and the violation of the children’s integrity by way of assault, starvation, slavery, and rape. It’s all in the Ryan Report to the horror of us Europeans. Then and only then can be laid the grounds for something worth calling a memorial.A fitting epitaph would be “Never Again, Never Again”
As a member of the Memorial Committee, I’d be more than happy to bring your suggestion for a memorial to my colleagues on the Committee. I assure you it will be passed on. Better still, you or anyone else with any suggestions for a memorial can email it directly to memorial@education.gov.ie Paddy.
And while I’m ranting about the prize then contributions from the Roman church are wellcome and even desired given the appalling behaviour of that organisation in abusing a large section of the children of Ireland.
Paddy, if you have an e-mail link to the memorial committe please put it on your site and I will forward my suggesstion myself. I appreciate the possibility of voicing my opinion your site offers. I allso appreciate that you request my opinion on such a matter and not assume for me what is best.
Paddy, No memorial in stone. Rather a living memorial in the form of an annual Childrens Nobel Prize to those who have worked for the rights and safety of children. Nominations are wellcome from around the world. This can be administered by your memorial committe. Put the money for the memorial into an ethical fund and use the dividends to create a prize that will have international prestige and integrity. Given the dismal record in child protection in Ireland such a prize is one step in the righr direction. We have prizes for everything except children. Please forward my sugestion to the commite Paddy.
Dear survivors,
As you may be aware, as part of the Government’s implementation of the recommendations of the Ryan Report, the Minister for Education & Science, announced the appointment of a Committee to oversee the design and commissioning of a memorial for victims of institutional abuse in October of last year.
The remit of the Committee is to;
consider the views of the survivor groups, survivors and interested parties in relation to the location and nature of the memorial to be commissioned;
make recommendations on the location and nature of the memorial in a manner that best takes account of the views of the groups representing survivors of abuse, survivors and interested parties and to consider arrangements for a national day of remembrance and solidarity;
oversee the commissioning and delivery by the Office of Public Works (through competition) of the design and commissioning of the memorial.
If you would like to give me a call or submit any thoughts on the proposed memorial to memorial@education.gov.ie I will ensure your views are brought to the attention of the Committee.
Regards,
Peter O’ Brien
Secretary to Memorial Committee
Department of Education & Science, Athlone
E.mail: peter_obrien@education.gov.ie
Phone: 090 64 83937
PADDY
WHO VOTED ON THE MEMORIAL. WOULD YOU NOT THINK THAT SURVIVORS ARE A REMINDER OF THE ABUSE WE SUFFERED, ALSO THE UNMARKED GRAVES ALL AROUND THE COUNTRY RIP. IT’S JUST ANOTHER EGO TRIP FOR THE SO CALLED REPS LIKE BARRY AND BUCKLEY. REMEMBER THAT THEY SAT DOWN WITH THE TAOISEACH AND SOLD US DOWN THE RIVER TO KEEP THEIR JOBS AND PERKS, WE WERE NEVER INFORMED OR VOTED ON THE MEMORIAL.
David, I will get an email address to which suggestions for a memorial can be sent. I take your point about people not being represented by any group or not wishing to be represented by any group. It is important to bear in mind that any individual can send a suggestion to the memorial committee. If you or anyone has a suggestion that you feel should be brought to the attention of the Memorial Committee, please don’t hesitate to send it to me and I will be happy for pass anything I receive on to my colleagues on the Committee. Paddy
‘Meetings are taking place with all representatives of ALL groups over the next few weeks concerning a memorial to people who were abused while in residential institutions. Paddy.’
Paddy I am not unhappy or displeased that the Memorial Committee are meeting with all representative of all groups. Some representatives (good and proper representatives) had very good supporters and those survivors should indeed be represented by their leaders. However as there are many many survivors who are not represented by leaders and don’t want to be represented as such, given the terrible errors and self interest (not to mention ego-trips) by those very so-called leaders then isn’t it only fair that those survivors have a say with regard to the Memorial?
I was wondering if it was possible for you to add alink (e-mail address) to the Memorial Committee on your website so that survivors who have nothing (and want nothing) to do with groups to be able to submit their thoughts on a Memorial. Reason for setting one up (or maybe reason for not), the site they would prefer and maybe have their own ideas as to what kind of Memorial.
Thanks Paddy
David (UK)
Billy, your so right and I agree with you. We must also remember that any ballot we have it must be made quite clear to all victims what we are voting for.ie. compensation plus the property and land held by the government and the catholic church funds to the victims. If the government want to keep the property and land then they must pay the victims the going rate for same. I read a piece in one of the Irish papers that approx 14,000 survivors were helped last time around. I know that the government offered to put 110 million on the table for survivors.That divided by 14.000 would only give us approx. 7.857 each, and i know the number of victims this time around will be much greater.To all survivors make sure we know what we are voting for .(If we get a vote) Margaret.
Meetings are taking place with all representatives of ALL groups over the next few weeks concerning a memorial to people who were abused while in residential institutions. Paddy.
Some information about the meeting would be great?
They wont get their trust fund. Simply because all survivors don’t want that. If the government think differently. Trouble is what they will get…
Hi just came across your web site thank god.
may i make a few comments,here in Cork we must have the most corrupt reps ever at right of place Noel Barry is nothing but a dictator,with his Barrister and mouthpiece F Trainer,they dictate and confuse the abused with their legal jargon,All they want is a trust fund (to keep their cosy salaries and expenses).Who will implement this trust fund
Barry and Buckley and co,what a rip off.
Hi Paddy,
would you kindly inform everybody on the outcome of that meeting.
Thankyou.
Anne.
what group held that meeting. Doris?
Margaret you have every right to say what you want to say Paddy i put up a comment on the 8of june and it didnt get posted at all saying that there was a meeting going on on thursday the 10 of june in dublin.did anybody know where the meeting was.
NO NO NO!!!!!!
FORGET SPOKEPERSON’S, REP’S, E.C.T.
YOU WHO HAS NOBODY TO REPRESENT YOU SHOULD BE DEALING DIRECT WITH THE GOVERNMENT/CORI THEMSELVE’S. THEY HAVE A “”LEGAL RIGHT “” “” OBLIGATION “” TO CORRESPOND WITH YOU/LIASE E.C.T
MAGGIE, I TOTALLY UNDERSTAND YOUR FRUSTRATION AND IT HURT’S ME TO HEAR OF PEOPLE LIKE YOUR SELF IN AN UNFORTUNATE POSITION WHERE YOU’R TRYING TO COPE WITH THE CARE OF YOUR HUSBAND AND CANNOT GET TO MEETING’S AND ALL THE ” CRAP ” THEY GO ON ABOUT.
I BELEIVE THE TIME IS COMING AND ALL WILL BE RESOLVED AS THERE WILL BE NO LET UP FROM SURVIVOR’S AND THEIR FAMILIE’S, ESPECIALLY FOR THE ONE’S WHO ARE NOT WELL KEPT, ON REGULAR INCOME’S E.C.T…YOU SEE UNFORTUNATELY THEY STOP CARING FOR THE REAL CAUSE AND JUSTICE AS THEY THEMSELVES ARE COMFORTABLE AND DO NOT HAVE THE FINANCIAL STRUGGLES AS MANY OF YOU DO. SADLY THAT MEANS THEY NO LONGER REGARD THEIR FELLOW SURVIVOR’S AS THOSE WHO STOOD BESIDE THEM SO TO SPEAK.
I ALSO BELEIVE THAT THEY WHO OPPOSE ANY WANT’S, NEED’S AND CONSIDERATIONS OF ANY SURVIVOR WHO HAS ABOSLUTELY NO HELP/FINANCIALLY/MENTALLY/EMOTIONALLY AFTER WHAT THEY HAVE SUFFERED FOR MANY YEARS, WILL BE MATCHED WITH THE SAME STRENGTH, FEROSCITY AND DETERMINATION THAT STANDS BEFORE THEM-AND FOR ANY OFFICIALS/GROUP “REPS” THAT HEAR THESE WORDS, PLEASE DO NOT UNDERESSTIMATE WHAT IT IS STATED.
AMERICA, AND MANY OTHER COUNTRY’S HAVE PAID THE RIGHT AND FAIR AMMOUNTS OF COMPENSATION TO VICTIMS OF CHILD ABUSE AND UNFORTUNATELY, IRELAND HAS NOT ONLY STRIPPED THEIR OWN SURVIVOR’S (THEIR OWN FELLOW IRISH PEOPLE) OF ABUSE OF THAT RIGHT FOR FAIR COMPENSATION. THEY HAVE, AND CONTINUE TO DO SO, INSULT, NEGLECT AND REFUSE TO CO-OPERATE AND ADDRESS THE NEEDS OF THEIR OWN PEOPLE WHO HAVE SUFFERED AND TO THIS DAY ARE STILL SUFFERRING.
SHAME ON YOU THOSE IN POWER..MAY GOD GO EASY ON YOU FOR ALL YOU HAVE NOT DONE.
TAKE CARE ALL..
ANNE
PLEASE LISTEN CAREFULLY AND
david i like people like you who will always admit when they are wrong. well done david you are so right we need the truth.
Hi Margaret – I would like to apologise if my previous comments in my last post appeared to be a bit harsh. It is very easy for survivors to get mixed up when other survivors tell them things that are not necessarily true and it is easy for us to believe what is being said. I appreciate that any money available would be a God send for you and I sincerely hope you receive your just compensation. I feel terribly guilty for suggesting “so please get your facts right before posting on this site.” It was out of order and insensitive of me. I apologise again and hope you are keeping well and not upset. Take care. David (UK).
@Seanie: What would satisfy YOU as a ‘qualification’ in the field of child abuse? What EXACTLY is a ‘credential’. Excuse my ignorance on this as my 20 years and 4 months as a ‘ward’ of the State didn’t give ME the wherewithal to digest your questions!
Ireland is presently governed by people who have plenty of ‘qualifications’ and ‘credentials’ and that hasn’t done much for the protection of children in this country … indeed, if memory serves me correctly … ALL my abusers had ‘qualifications’ and ‘credentials’ to beat the band – trouble is the didn’t stop at just beating the band – they beat EVERYONE and then some.
I was sat beside Mick Waters as he told the Taoiseach that we should be balloted. He reminded Brian Cowen that the Government has the names and addresses of everyone who applied to the Redress Board and that the government should consult survivors/victims on this – consult US. Mick Waters is completely opposed to ‘Trust Funds’. He has pushed for a Survivors Ballot and, up to June 2010, he has been contacted by over 1800 survivors/victims who also want a ballot.
Maggie although I was not at the SOCA UK meeting I nevertheless speak to Mick Waters on a regular basis over the phone and he has NEVER ever endorsed the idea of setting up a Trust Fund. In fact Mick is very forceful in trying to get a ballot set up for every single survivor so that they can have a democratic say in what they (survivors) wish the money to be used. Mick is totally against a Trust and firmly believes that survivors should have had a say when the congregations handed over the money. Mick also believes that having a Trust would serve no purpose other than to complicate matters even worst and will bring with it it’s own problems and he also feels that it is very unfair on survivors. So I don’t know if your friend at the meeting misunderstood but I can assure you that Mick Waters has clearly stated that he is in favour of a Ballot for all survivors and is not interested in a Trust as he does not trust the setting up of one. What I am saying is not ‘hear-say.’ So please get your facts right before posting on this site.
Ken your absolutely right there..and bless the children, these people could learn alot from their innocence/honesty e.c.t
It’s so so transparrent watching what’s gone on/going on! Truly insulting to all survivor’s intelligence! I’ve met many a highly intelligent fellow survivor, with extra lashing of Emotional intelligence that would put many Professional’s to shame.. and it has been , and would not be wise to keep underestimating that. And that goes for the one’s who ” Supposedly ” represent us !
Rose, it’s absolutely a pleasure to read what you post..your full of fire and strength and this is where we are often underestimated.
I have also noted that on the other Topic..Survivor’s split article, since my last posting there have been no reply’s??? I really am wondering why as it’s been such a busy Topic in recent weeks.
Hope all is well..take care..
Anne.
Rose, that is all that needs to be done.
I am sure that even a young team/group from a secondary school could turn that plan into reality. I don’t see how the government can’t.
Anne, I don’t think god will forgive anyone who deceive there fellow men.
People have it wrong when it comes to that one. If you do wrong in this life you will be punished in the next.
If God was to forgive you for your sins, that means we can all go around doing what we like and know that once you ask God for forgiveness all is forgotten.
That does not make sense to me.
I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT LEGALLY. THEY HAVE BEEN DOING EXACTLY WHAT THE PRESS AND THE GOVERNMENT ALLOW THEM TO DO AND THIS HAS BEEN GOING ON FOR YEARS .I DON’T KNOW IF ONE PERSON SUCH AS PADDY CAN CLIMB OVER THE WALL AROUND THEM . BUT EVERYTHING WE WRITE HERE WILL STAY OR AT LEAST I HOPE SO .
NO DISRESPECT PAULINE BUT SADLY YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY WRONG! NO, THEY WILL NOT AND CANNOT, LEGALLY GET AWAY WITH IT!
I do hope you understand what I’m about to say here. This is the problem, the Negative talk and constant implying of what ” This is what they want ” and ” They will get away with it ” It’s absolutely rubbish! They’ve got away with it for many, many years, however, it’s now that is of rellevance and beleive me, I am aware that Government/cori and the like’s have dug themselve’s a big complicated mess, and the world, so to speak is watching. There are many more worm’s that could be unearthed/opened and I feel that would not be wise. Also, their is the huge moral obligation that simply has to, and will be fullfilled.
I totally understand you saying Paddy is not the problem here..of course not, however, he has so many follower’s now, correct? so in a sense, and with the knowledge of him being connected to the Media, Government, Religious e.c.t he has, does and has alway’s had many opportunitie’s to, not represent as such, but be a spokeperson on your behalf, or even just that “fellow survivor” who care’s for his Brother’s and sister’s which in my personal opinion, is exactly what I would do if I had the priveledge being in his position.
I’ve said many time’s how much I appreciate Paddy’s site, so as to enable lost survivor’s to communicate and share their story’s.
Let’s see how it unfolds..
Regard’s….Anne
PADDY IS NOBODYS ENEMY . AND HE IS NOT THE PROBLEM EITHER . THE LACK OF INFORMATION WAS NO ACCIDENT .IT MAKES US OUT TO BE THE PROBLEM.LETS ALL KEEP A CLEAR MIND. OTHERWISE THEY WILL GET AWAY WITH IT .
“You sound like a part of that lot now. Well you were there huh?!?! lol” I don’t understand the point you’re trying to make. Paddy.
Pauline, you’ve hit the nail right on the head there! ” HOW COME NONE OF US HAVE BEEN CONTACTED FROM ANYONE IN CHARGE!” and, also heard it from Paddy himself there. Of course Government Department’s e.c.t ” Monitor Regularly ” Paddy’s website!!
Well bejaysus, wouldn’t you think they would have got the message by now !!!..now we’r talking?????????……
Well to all you ” Government Official’s and Department’s ” You’ve heard what the SURVIVOR’S OF CHILD ABUSE want, need and are entitled to. You have heard from Mr Doyle’s site that these people DO NOT, AND MOST HAVE NOT, had any contact or anything benneficial to them from these “Group’s” so I wonder who can explain to the rest of us, where is our help??? our compensation?? where has this money gone??.. at least you are fully aware that Paddy’s important friend’s are regular’s here at the Doyle Inn?!?!…..Ahh, just joking with ya paddy, I know you’ve got a crackin sense of humour ;.)
Anne.
Make of it what you will, by the way Paddy, you sound like a part of that lot now. You well in there huh?!?! lol..
May God forgive those who decieve there fellow men.
I have it on good authority that the comments on this page are monitored and read regularly by various government departments and other agencies dealing with abuse of children in institutional care. Paddy.
Deep down none of us believe that paddy or anybody else can chang whats going on here . how come none of us have been contacted by people in charge . In the meantime we need to be heard . and exchange our information . and leave a trace for the future . and thats mainly what its about as far as i am concerned
There’s nothing in your comment Rose that I’d find myself in disagreement with. Paddy.
Just a thought. Proper compensation for all survivors/victims. Disband the groups. A board made up of survivors to oversee all childrens issues. Leaders of groups maybe, and yourself Paddy? After all, who better to know what to look out for, than those who have been through the system.
at the end of the day it is what the individual is seeking, we all have our views and should hold tongue and realize there is a lot of confusion out there.
some may be brave, some may be clever some may be direct at the end of the day it is about survivors who fear asking questions, who have not got a clue, who just need a spokesperson to have their needs met.
so here is the reason people write here as they need to get things of their chest.
what ever your views are here i am more than sure this site has been transparent enough to show paddy would make sure a survivor would be represented for that need you have what ever that need is that may help you move on.
there is a scale here, there are survivors on the streets to survivors who have no money worries.
their needs will never be the same.
no one has the right to judge another without proof.
please take care of yourselves people and stop picking on each other. if you have ideas that may be constructive then please remember there are very hurt people out there and they need your support in informing them in a useful manner. only this way you will be able to move on.
we are here through no fault of our own, we have been let down for years now, the government/religious and now the groups, please do not let your fellow survivor down now when it matters.
One more thing. I have kept a close eye on the messages in regard’s to the compensation of further contribution’s and God bless you all for all your Ideas..the pettition ideas, e.c.t I also noted that Paddy didn’t comment too much on your ideas or perhaps inform you that he would or could discuss the above with Mr Cowen in some way, as you are aware Paddy has a lot of connection’s and surely by now the least he could have done would be to give a list of name’s to Mr Cowen showing the genuine amount of survivor’s who are all after the same thing. Compensation for which they have bloody well earned! and is rightly their’s!! now what harm would that have done? instead of umming n arrring about who we should vote for and ask to represent!
please, consider what I have said and I shall write again hopefully if Paddy allows to let you know how I go on.
Anne..take care to all fellow survivor’s.. ;.)
Paddy, I noticed you didn’t put my response up that you asked for in your private email to me this morning? on this page..perhap’s on the other? I have not checked yet but will do so now. Maybe just passing ship’s in the night there.
I’m honestly lost when it come’s to ” compo” “crap”…not the meaning of the word..but the feeling I get from you using those word’s used.
You seem a little narky Paddy, are you ok? don’t sound your usual self..very defensive.
I mean no disrespect but I’m totally wondering why you above all people, who get’s to go to meeting’s with the Taoseach e.c.t cannot speak for the people dedicated and spending time writting and perhaps looking to you for guidance/help whatever? Let’s be real here..all it would take would be for you to give a list of name’s from the people who visit your site, who you converse with regulary, and tell them what they want! simple! no?? talk to me Paddy..
What harm would that do now? or do you let the people who respect and have faith in you
because you arn’t like the rest of the Group leader’s e.c.t keep running around like headless chicken’s?
Thankyou Ken for understanding..and also Patrick..I mean no direct disrespect to Mr Doyle, however, it make’s sense really doesn’t it!?!?………
Anne
Paddy i think you misread Anne s post completely. To me it seemed she is talking to all survivors that read your site. It doesn’t look to be directed at you.
Thanks for clearing that matter up Patrick. It was no “big deal” as far as I was/am concerned. “Compo” is a word frequently used in Ireland, particularly in Dublin. You absolutely right of course, compensation and “compo” mean the same thing. Perhaps Anne will now see the light so to speak. “Crap” is another good word too. “Compo” and “Crap” seem to go well together!!! Paddy.
I used he word compo cos my spelling is crap so its easier for me to just say compo…it means the same thing at the end of the day.
My reference to “compo” was in response to a previous comment post, hence the inverted commas around the word “COMPO”. COMPO is not a word I have ever used………….EVER except when making reference to a post/comment NOT made by me. Paddy.
I think what Anne is saying is that we are all looking to the Group Leaders for help. Putting control in there hands. When we should be dealing with it ourselves (survivors) as individuals. Take stock, take control of our own life and get in contact with the religious orders themselves.
Paddy, i know you are not in it for the “compo” but let me tell you that any survivor i know is. Peoples lives were and still are turned up side down because of what happened. Survivors deserve every cent of the COMPO. And if you think other wise, you wont be getting a vote from this house.
Yes there is the big issue to deal with as well. But that may wait till after the survivors get what they deserve.
Anne, I’ll make my points as briefly as I can. I believe ever so called representative group should have their accounts checked and verified. The issue of Child Abuse as I’ve said in response to another comment posted on this site is about more than just money. You seem to suggest that I’ve been hoodwinked and that I need to come out of my “repetitive mindset”. What is all that about? Who has hoodwinked me? Show me one shred of what you call a “repetitive mindset” and explain to me and to other readers of this site what you mean. You could explain what you mean about “but now you must open your eyes and ears and do what you have absolutely every right to do and ask for”. I haven’t the faintest idea what you mean by any of this. You then go on to say “Do not be fooled no more”. My response to that is that anyone who buys me for a fool would be getting a bad deal. I hope that doesn’t sound arrogant. Where is your evidence that you claim to be aware “That the Religious – many of them would prefer this money to go direct to the survivor’s and that it’s the Government who is trying to stop this”. Serious and interesting allegations against me and against the government. The least I deserve and the least readers of the comments to this site deserve is an explanation from you about what you’ve written. For my own part, I’m not at all sure, “Please wake up” is relevant and I most certainly will not be ASKING “FOR YOUR MONEY DIRECT” I’m sure that many people will be interested in the response to the questions I’ve put to you as a result of the allegations you’ve made against me. Paddy.
There are many people who write to me via email that wouldn’t mourn the closing of groups such as they are now operating. I don’t know what would happen if they all vanished tomorrow. I’ve no idea if survivors would or would not get extra compensation. Time and time again on this site and elsewhere, I’ve said the issue of child abuse has to be and is about more than money or “compo” as you refer to it. Paddy.
If all groups close Paddy what then? Can I ask you do you think survivors should get extra compensation as we all know they were all ripped off at the Redress Board…..any survivor I’ve talked to want what they should have got and then move on with there lives….you know I was talking to a doctor today and I said to him..what you think of this..the Ryan report was a year old 2 weeks ago..and on the front of a paper there was Christine Buckley and her group with a big 1 year cake and ready to cut it ..all smiling..he said that’s sick..and anyone who saw it thinks its sick..they have lost there heads and the plot
Paddy I am prepared to put that petition up on a site and stand by it. Now if only I knew how to do it, all help welcome. Let’s roll.
Patrick Bentley, Ken, your absolutely spot on !
I have also wondered why they have gone after Mr Michael O’Brien-and I am now fully aware why.
Forgive me Paddy but there is absolutely NO reason to question Mr O’Brien’s account’s e.c.t.
He has, and can provide evidence of all money spent and has probably done more than any other ” Group Leader ” and he is also likely to be the only one to provide this evidence and has done.
This money is ours, you have a right to go back to your Solicitor and direct them to approach the Government/Religious to ask for your share.
You need to come out of the repetitive mindset you have been hoodwinked into, and also thinking you need a representative. You can do this your self and I have been informed that it is also absolutely possible that if not this can be took to The High Court.
I thank Paddy as always for enabling survivor’s to connect via his sight, but now you must open your eye’s, ear’s and do what you have absolutely every right to do and ask for.
Do not be fooled no more.
Actually I am also aware that the Religious-many of them) would prefer this money to go direct to survivor’s and it is actually Government who is trying to stop this. I have wrote to Mr Brian Cowen and recently received a reply, However, I am now awaiting further response and and will take my own action accordingly.
There is no one representing me..other than myself.
Please wake up. ASK FOR YOUR MONEY DIRECT.
Anne.
thank you so much ken well appreciated the only news we got AS USUAL. THESE SO CALLED GENERAL MEETING ARE BECOMING LIKE THOSE CLOSED MEETINGS NO INFORMATION BEFORE ONLY AFTERWARDS BY THOSE LIKE YOURSELF KEN WHO KNOW THERE ARE A LOT OF SURVIVORS LEFT OUT FOR REASONS ONLY KNOWN TO THESE GROUPS.
TRANSPARENCY? THEY DO NOT KNOW THE MEANING OF THE WORD. THEY NEVER WILL. CLOSE THESE GROUPS DOWN NOW THEY ARE NOT WORKING.
paddy if we sent good old fashoned letters to you ,as our voices perhaps it would be easier for everyone to control . Of course it would mean extra work for you and that could be a bother , but even people who dont have thier own computer could be part of it , what do you think paddy
well that at least sounds like a move in the right way..in the end the survivors will have the last say and it will bring a close to this once and for all.25.ooo may sound not much but anythings better than this going around in circles fighting against one another..ive always said the survivors want this to end there way so i hope this ends up been the way,,
I attended the meeting in Wexford last night after. Was excepted and felt welcome.
The main thing I took from this meeting was that survivors want the right compensation. They don’t want funds of any sort. Some men and women stated that they wanted to help there families out in life. As times are tough we all see the need for this. People that had no children also backed this.
It was said that the religious orders had a cheque of 340million (land and monies) ready to hand over. This sounds like a lot of money. At this I asked how many survivors are they in total. The answer was about 13,000. With that I took out my calculator and calculated that each survivor will get a cheque 0f about 25,000 euro. To me and to most at this meeting this amount is an insult.
Issues of transparency of groups was also discussed. People were overly angry when topics such as group funding or support monies was mentioned. Some of these stories were shocking to hear.
A united front person(s) to fight for our rights was also on the agenda. This is in the works and sounds promising.
There was also people (support group) from Galway present, which seemed to have a good sense of direction.
There were more discussions but just cant remember at this moment…..
it seems all groups got funding of some kind true out the past few years to keep things up and runing..everyone knows that,,its not news to me.what is news to me is how leaders of groups one after the other seems to be out to bring mr o brian down since he walked out of that goverment meeting…since then the groups have done everything to blacken his name..if this had started before that meeting id have no problem but as we no since he took that stand to have survivors given the compo people have gone out of there way to bring him down..very sad is the fact that the world looks on at this..we keep asking for leaders to lead use but to what end..so far its been to sand rather than a river….
Paddy, you have my signature to represent my twopence worth as a spokesperson for me, I said that some time ago. However this information will not reach the thousands of boys and girls who do not know of your site or do not have the access to the internet. This is why I encourage the present (members if you will)to please write, e-mail, phone an editor of any newspaper to bring this uprising to the fore, we are not happy with the situation at all, Mr. Doyle speaks for me and that needs to be spread across Ireland and England. Quote: The best description of “utter waste” would be a busload of survivor representatives not mandated, to go over a cliff with three empty seats.Unquote.
Seanie.
Paddy that’s great news. we have nothing to lose and our voices all together will mean we have learned to say stop.
David, if someone can set up that petition, I will put it on my website as soon as I can. It would not be appropriate for me to be the one to put the petition in place – perhaps yourself and Raymond as well as others will agree with that. Once the Petition is online and working, we can take it from there. Paddy.
“To give the Survivors of Abuse, their families, children, spouses and siblings, including the Magdalene women, non-Catholics and all other groups so far excluded, the right to elect their chosen person to speak for them on any issues relating to them with the Irish Government. We understand that the Group leaders who are now in meetings with The Irish Government do NOT HAVE A MANDATE to speak on our behalf. We hereby nominate PADDY DOYLE (of the God Squad) to speak for us. Although compensation and reparation is strictly a matter for the above-mentioned, we believe this to be an issue of basic Human Rights where ALL are invited in solidarity for support.”
Very well summarised Raymond. In a nut shell you said it all.
Hi Ken – I agree with Robert and Seanie, that you sould attend (and have every right) the meeting being held in Wexford tonight. You should be embraced at that meeting and made to feel welcome – I would be very surprised if you were not. If, for some reason, they do not allow you attend then please let us know on here and if you do attend I would be very grateful if you would lets us know what the meeting was all about. I hope that more relatives of survivors take an interest and come on board.
Thanks Robert and Seanie, yes I think it is important that I go, not just for myself but for my family. I feel that I have a say too.
well spoken seanie good luck with your book
Hi Ken,
You have every right in the world to attend any meeting as a child of a survivor and spread the word of the existence of this platform, with Paddy’s permission of course. Good luck and God bless you. Please let us know what transpired at the meeting as I am in British Columbia, Canada. I have passed the word to a few boys, now in their seventies and one lady who reside in England, etc. we keep in touch since I had an article in the papers in Ireland and England, I told a little of my time, sent some photo’s and the response was fantastic, from New York, Chicago, Limerick, and from all over England and Ireland, letters, e-mails and a phone call from a great ex sportsman named P J O’Dea originally from Co.Clare who is 80 years of age, football star of the 40s,he lives in Chicago now. The reason I am telling this is that any of us on Paddy’s site can and should contact any newspaper editor and tell them your story as I did and you may be surprised at the response, mine was in the Limerick Leader December 23rd 2000 and its the best thing I have ever done, now I am writing a book and believe me it is very difficult, the screen gets blurry most times, one boy who served time with me asked me in one of his letters, Seanie, please don’t stop writing to me, thats what they done to him, Steve lives in London and he goes back to Glin every year and St. Joseph’s, stands at the entrance and looks at the pile of stones of what is left of the hell-hole, I don’t know why he does that, it’s punishment, I only went back once to the pile of rubble. So in order for the world to learn from us please write to an Newspaper with a small story of your experience’s, good or bad.
Best regards Ken,
Seanie.
of course it is your right to be there and represent your family, there were staff not from the institutions there on many occasions.
you have the right as a survivors son representing your family there will be people there who are cohabiting couples.
you should protest strongly if you are not allowed they are supposed to be there to support survivors and their families.
make sure you get in if not call the guards as these groups are paid you work on your behalf not their own.
this is my opinion
I have heard of a meeting to be held in Wexford tomorrow night. I am not a survivor but a son of a survivor, do you think it is ok for me to go??
in answer to raymond well spoken but we need to understand that a lot of survivors are in fear of computers, cannot read and write so on so it is up to use to tell them about this site and explain the current situations we trying to deal with. paddy’s site is not enough we need the media and some one to express the views on this great site of paddy’s.
we need ALL VIEWS PUT TOGETHER AND DELIVERED TO A PROGRAM ON TV RADIO AND PAPERS THAT WE MEAN BUSINESS AND WANT TO BE HEARD NOT BY GROUPS VIEWS ON WHAT THEY THINK WE NEED.
THERE ARE THOUSANDS OF US THERE IS NO WAY ON THIS EARTH THE GROUPS WILL BE LISTENING TO ALL SURVIVORS JUST LOOK AT THE CUES IN THE MAIN SECTORS OF UNEMPLOYMENT,EDUCATION, COUNSELING, HOUSING AND SO ON RUN BY VERY EXPERIENCED STAFF WHAT CHANCE HAVE SURVIVORS? BY KANGAROO GROUPS NOT A CHANCE AND PEOPLE OUT THERE KNOW THIS
WE OBJECT TO THIS KIND OF TREATMENT WE NEED THAT OFFICE FOR COMPLAINTS WHERE PADDY COULD BE THE SPOKESPERSON FOR SURVIVORS BUT HE WILL NEED HONEST SUPPORT TO DEAL WITH ALL COMPLAINTS THUS THE OFFICE FOR SURVIVORS COMPLAINTS TO BE MADE LEGALIZED AND SET UP OTHER WISE THIS ABUSE WILL PERSIST AS USUAL.
I FELT RAYMOND’S PASSION AND IT IS GREAT SOME ONE HAS MENTIONED THE CHILDREN AS WE WERE WE NEED TO FIGHT FOR THOSE CHILDREN’S RIGHTS TODAY I CRIED IN PAIN FOR THOSE CHILDREN IT HURT TO KNOW HOW THEY HAVE BEEN TREATED BY THE HSE AND GOVERNMENT NOW WE HAVE THE TRINITY
THE RELIGIOUS THE GOVERNMENT THE HSE
ALL WITH NO HOPE AT ALL.
Has any any group? and shown to who? all the survivors? or just the government/religious? We need that petition so keep asking those questions guys and ladies. The more questions the more we will see how survivors are being neglected and ignored. sounds familiar. All questions then should be placed together on the agreement of all and a spokesperson/overseer/solicitor elected to peruse the answers demanded now. How can we do this?
Paddy by putting these questions on your site we have already chosen you and trusted you to put this petition forward as a spokesperson if the groups were being honest they do not have an argument about you representing survivors. They would only fear this petition.
Hello Paddy.
The RYAN REPORT passed its first birthday.
The CATHOLIC CHURCH hasn’t budged.
NAMA is in place.
Children in care are missing, many die. What? 200 in the last 10 years – or was it FIVE ? 40 per year…..
Now the HSE is withholding files from its own Minister, as IT seeks to PROTECT the children in said files. Am I the only one seeing this as the most insane play on the Planet?
At their most productive and creative, the same people tell us that there ARE measures in motion to correct things which at best, will take 3 years to implement, maybe 5. Does that not sound exactly like the Catholic Church? And the Government? The referendum on the Right of the Child, lined up for the end of this year, will be an improvement but will still fall short of PROTECTING ALL CHILDREN (especially from WITHIN the Family), and anyway, is not guaranteed safe passage yet as the majority is slow to give up, their perceived right to educate and discipline, still believing THEY know best (and we’ve seen where this led us!).
It is still the same old chestnut…….
A change of ATTITUDE that is required, from ALL.
Unfortunately, ATTITUDE doesn’t grow on trees but IN THE HEART. PASSION WITH = COM…PASSION.
The PRESENT IRISH NON-EXISTANT OUTRAGE and INDIGNATION are more DESTRUCTIVE, as the Crimes get bigger.
And the Survivors Groups are fighting worse than ever.
Paddy !
The petition(s) to choose a Voice/Representative is not working in its present form. Perhaps it lacks in Credibility and “Officiality”. Perhaps the wording is not encompassing enough. I’m happy to hear that you did NOT put your own name on it. How sad that the petition itself could be tampered with !
So I would like to suggest again, that you put it up on your own website, in clear, bold and unequivocal terms, in the impartial, independent and professional way that you have displayed all along.
Here is the proposed wording for your attention, mostly copied from one of the petitions, with some not-so-minor additions:
To give the Survivors of Abuse, their families, children, spouses and siblings, including the Magdalene women, non-Catholics and all other groups so far excluded, the right to elect their chosen person to speak for them on any issues relating to them with the Irish Government. We understand that the Group leaders who are now in meetings with The Irish Government do NOT HAVE A MANDATE to speak on our behalf. We hereby nominate PADDY DOYLE (of the God Squad) to speak for us. Although compensation and reparation is strictly a matter for the above-mentioned, we believe this to be an issue of basic Human Rights where ALL are invited in solidarity for support.
One for All
All for One
Raymond
Has O’Brien shown his account/ receipts ??
this could be part of that petition everyone wants plus a solicitor/overseer/spokesperson to speak on behalf of those who do not wish to be part of any group so these survivors are spoken for to government/religious/and those groups.
i believe this petition has been long over due.
but like paddy said there are those out there who would try to tarnish him as our spokesperson if we use this site to vote for him.
BUT DO WE CARE WHAT THESE GROUPS THINK? DIDN’T THEY START AS A GROUP WHEN SURVIVORS ASKED THEM FOR THE INFORMATION ON THE REDRESS NOW ALL OF A SUDDEN THESE PEOPLE ARE CLAIMED AS MEMBERS BY ADVERTISING THE GROUPS RATHER THAN THE KNOWLEDGE THEY KEPT BACK FROM FELLOW SURVIVORS NOT KNOWING WHAT THEY COULD HAVE HAD IF THEY WERE NOT REPRESENTED BY THESE KANGAROO GROUPS.
THE RYAN REPORT WOULD HAVE COME OUT AND THEN WE COULD HAVE HAD A CASE TO PUT FORWARD PROPERLY, THEY MAY HAVE GOT A LOT MORE IF THEY HAD TRUSTED IN THEMSELVES AND THEIR OWN SOLICITORS
Good old Bellows – I always knew he wouldn’t be shouting for nothing. A true Party Man what knows the ropes and how to get the cash. I would like to know why his local VEC was ever involved in paying the “rent” for the “office” in Clonmel. Does anyone know the address of “the office” or was it like those Westminster MP’s who charged the taxpayers for “renting” their own home space to themselves? As a politician Old Bellows would know all the tricks. What he can’t get away from is that he misled the public on the Joe Duffy show on 17th May when asked how much he received from the Rosminians – he mucked it up telling millions of people that the only money he ever got was sixpence. What a porker – even by the standards of Old Bellows.
Robert, David, that is correct. Now I have no problem with any charity helping anybody, I donate now and again when I can afford to. My problem is the qualifications of the organizations and chairmen etc. who start these well meaning (I hope) organizations and saying they represent us survivors. My questions to Mr. O’Brien and the others including Mr. Waters of SOCA fame, what credentials can you provide to me, are you educated in that field, some sort of proof, are you and the organization licensed, insured and bonded, in my business those are the basic requirements, show me who you have helped, you must have records, names, dates and how you helped the survivor, would you be willing to take a lie detector test ? just some of the questions that may help me understand, there are many more questions that have to be answered yet.
I wish you well Mr.O’Brien and the others who have been helping us survivors ? anyway, God Bless.
Seanie.
Robert you are spot on. Before reading your comment I was thinking of writing much the same. I really believe that we are at the stage where all survivors groups should be audited and whatever monies they have received to run these groups, support survivors, money paid for advertising etc should now be revealed. Survivors (including those who do not or have not) attended meetings have a right to know where that money was spent and indeed who dontated how much to each group or individual wo represents so called groups.
all the more survivors need an independent solicitor or some kind of officer to make sure that finances given to groups THAT REALLY BELONG TO SURVIVORS THEMSELVES are being spent on survivors.
that survivors should be notified on how much each group has been given to date, how much they have to their name now and what the monies are to be spent on before the monies are spent so we know where the money is going when we see the bill.
otherwise this money is not on behalf of survivors but the groups alone. everything should be transparent.
every survivor should be sent a notification monthly for every cent.
or a chosen spokesperson voted in independently of the groups to investigate on survivors behalf if all is fair according to survivors wishes. as all is set up on their behalf.
wages should be questioned too considering this work is NOT a business.
where the monies are coming from should be made known too.
Surely now the credibility of Mr. O’Brien needs at the very least to be called into question.
The truth will always out.