Saturday, October 31, 2009
The Department of Education last night received a report by a Government- appointed panel which was assessing statements of resources submitted by religious congregations following publication of the Ryan report.
Minister for Education Batt O’Keeffe will “consider the report”, a spokesman for Mr O’Keeffe said last night.
The panel is to report on the adequacy of the congregations’ statements.
The Irish Times 31st October 2009
Why treat the Group Leaders to a special reading of the assets? They’ve done bugger all for survivors in the past. ‘Course if you’re a shadow Director of one of these groups I can understand why the question would be asked! Out with it and lets have no more of your fork tongued hypocrisy – how about it Jumbo?
Well Anne, if we have learnt anything from the investigations of the Roman Church then it is that God is definitly not with that organisation. They seem to know this and to judge by their actions and stonewalling they have accepted this reality. Their behaviour at the Ryan commission in all it,s sordity confirmed that.With that acceptence follows a phase of nihilism where nothing really matters except wealth.It is a paradox that the moral stature of survivors is superior to that of a church that has prided itself on having monoply of just that. With truth on you side Anne you have an imeasurable wealth.With truth comes hope, something mainly absent in the Irish Roman Catholic Church.
That is so true Charles. Well, Hope and faith is all we have left, it’s got us this far and it will take us some more…
I am so proud of each and every one of us for the strength within our spirit.
I believe God is with us and all will be okay.
Anne.
Ann , these religious are lacking in vital emotional functions, Brought up at an early age in their seminariums where their human feelings were amputated they now wander into an eerie zone and are unable to relate to the real world or to the feelings of others.Their god is a well filled bank vault and the suffering of surviviors is of no relevance to them. They can,t look into themselves for what would they find, “Emptieness”?.
I’m sure Brother Garvey would have no difficulty in aquiring a loan from the Vatican Bank. After all they have been customers there since the founding of the Irish State and with a steady inflow of cash from the industrial schools to that bank are creditable customers.Then there is the question of real estate in Rome where they have their head quarters.A global assessment of their resources will give a true picture of the economic status of that order, their dealings in high finance on the international market will show their moral status.”No admission of guilt ever” is their creed as tellingly described by Justice Ryan.
It honestly cuts me to the bone. I just cannot fathom why, in this day and age, these “Religious Orders” would try to deny all survivors a chance to heal, move on e.c.t, but they have done nothing more than persecute us again and again,as if they are angry with us for what they are going through!??!…
How could the Religious not look at themselves deep within and find the truth? How? and yet profess to be so close to God, who is the truth.
Shameful, and so so wrong. God help them.
Anne.
A suitable memorial would be the removal of the religious from the fields of health and education. Thus denying them access to children both corporal and spiritual. This was done in France at the beginning of the century. They were given three weeks to pack up and leave. Secular societies do not come about by themselves rather by political decisions made by a government who demand full control of its own departments. Now that would be a memorial. In the mean time there is the question of the ill gotten gains the orders are now asked to put on the table. So far their behaviour has been less than admirable and at times sordid. Shall we witness further deference to the religious?.
Br. Edmund Garvey insisted the trust was designed to defend the long-term viability of the order’s schools, not protect the order from lawsuits. He said the order was ready to surrender Irish assets but was struggling financially to care for its 250 largely elderly brothers in Ireland. Garvey said his order would try to find more funds to compensate victims, but wasn’t sure that was realistic. “At this point in time, I don’t believe we can,” he said.
Stephen Rubino, a New Jersey-based lawyer who specializes in class-action lawsuits against Catholic authorities in the United States, said the Christian Brothers often sought “to disassociate themselves from particularly pregnant assets that could be given over to, or awarded, in a judgment. It’s what corporations do when they feel like they’re in trouble. The question is whether it’s lawful,” Rubino said.
THE Christian Brothers have over the past year(2008 and up to May 20 2009) transferred ownership of their primary and secondary schools in the Republic to a new trust named after the order’s founder. The value of the property transferred was estimated to be in the region of €400 million at the time of the transfer, according to a spokesman for the order.
The chief executive of the trust is Gerry Bennett. The other members of the trust are: Danny O’Hare, the founding president of DCU; Pat Cox, the former president of the European Parliament; Dr Fiachra Long, philosophy lecturer in UCC; Prof Eunice McCarthy, psychology professor at UCD; Patricia McCrossan, former principal of the Central Remedial Clinic School: Br Michael Murray, former province leader of St Helen’s Province in Ireland; Carmel Naughton, a former chairwoman of the National Gallery; and Pat O’Neill, former group managing director of Glanbia.
The directors of the trust are Pat Higgins, former director of education at Drumcondra, Helen Ó Murchú, a member of the Governing body of the Marino Institute of Education, William Hallahan, a former principal at Christian Brothers schools, Catherine McDonagh, a post-primary teacher, Br Mark McDonnell, recently returned from the congregation leadership team in Rome, and Gerard Rowley, head of administration with the Refugee Appeals Tribunal.
The Christian Brothers remain as owners of such property as the Marino Institute on Griffith Avenue, Dublin, the Emmaus retreat centre in Swords, Co Dublin, and various residential properties, according to a spokesman for the congregation.
Over recent years, they have sold many valuable sites including the St Helen’s site in Stillorgan, Co Dublin, now the Radisson Hotel.
Paddy, we are about to see a clinical exercise in ecclesiastical money laundering.
PADDY..We must not wait any longer! This is a disgrace and an insult to every victim.
We need exposure,we need to keep it highlighted through the media e.c.t,the pressure needs to be stepped up by any means.
Alot of the public are not aware of the cover ups and deceipt which is still occurring with the corrupt Government and the Cori.
It’s time once again to push and fight on,as always, for our justice.
It was only yesterday I thought to myself how the memorial would be an insult to us and, if we accepted it,it would clearly be an acceptance of that appology from the state without them finalising any other repatriation for the victims. In my oppinion,they should clear everything up with us once and for all,and only then should we really accept this memorial.
Imagine 100 years from now,our childrens children walking down the street and reading this “apology” believing that the state was truly sorry,and did all they could for the victims! this would be a farce! we cannot allow this to happen.
Anne
Looking into my crystal ball I see yet another battle looming with Batt O keeffe, the newly crowned head of education and now manager of the Catholic religious in Ireland. I do believe we are seeing an enemy on the horizon and he is ‘considering’ nothing except preserving his masters voices and dare I say assets. I ask all victims of institutional abuse please be vigilant and hold together too as one voice for this will be our most important fight. He is not the Minister for Justice and even if he was you would not get it.
Watch this space!!!
Barry 1 nov 2009 bgclifford@iol.ie
Paddy, perhaps that American lawyer should come forward and take a look at what findings the panel have established. Also skilled economists should dissect every orders assets and ask uncomfortable questions. There is every reason to take information from the orders with salt, a lot of salt.
Failure by the government to challenge the orders as to their assets and where these assets have been put beyond reach fail to bring them to account by using the laws of the land constitutes not only a criminal offence but even more serious constitutes a theocratic coup d’etat which will have consequences for the Republic within a European context. Sounds incredible? Wait until you see how long the Catholic Church is prepared to go .Interference by another jurisdiction is just for starters.
Hanora, to disagree is healthy! It’s my view that the information given to the panel should be made public and quickly. We’ve had enough of the foot dragging by both religious orders and the government as this website shows clearly. The information handed over yesterday should have been handed over two weeks after the various groups met with An Taoiseach and his Ministers on the 3rd of June 2009.
If what you say is true “these orders have set up charities in other names” etc. then according to a top American Lawyer, they have committed a “CRIMINAL OFFENCE” He put the case something like this: If the orders knew what the Ryan Report was going to contain and if they decided to put their assets into trusts in order to protect the value of them “THEY HAVE COMMITTED A CRIMINAL OFFENCE”.
I don’t intend to wait. You’re right. Those days are long gone.
The Governemnt gave the Church enough time to get their assets- our money really- to safe offshore accounts- so as they can now declare themselves “broke.”
Of course dragging the whole affair on and on, in the hope that many will die off.
So, don’t you be thinking of leaving this game Paddy Doyle, until justice is seen to be done.
I wish you and all abused to be there for the final Victory – on stage- in front of all our fellow human beings.
Justice must be Seen, To be done.
Martin/Paddy, I don’t, on this occasion, agree with you. The panel were considered experts in their respective fields, and if I can amass all manners of information on some of these congregations then I’m sure the experts will do us justice.
Some of these orders have set up charities in other names; not only in this country but in Britain, Europe and Africa! Not to mention Trusts etc. Mind you. to some of the group leaders this is a mere trifle! (Mine’s with ice cream!)!
Under the FOI we can challenge the info. provided to the panel and that should prove the adequacy/inadequacy of the panel.
Oh, and we won’t wait. Those days are long gone!
I was thinking that too Martin. Time, lots of it on the part of the Government and Religious Orders will tell. It could be a long wait. A very long one indeed.
Now just let me guess what the report says. That the religious are flat broke and cannot afford that much at all towards the cost of Investigation and or Redress.
Like I did not see that coming. Or is that a premature prediction?
The whole thing has been engineered to that particular end.
They get away scot free, coffers intact and all.
It took a long time for the religious orders to get this far. Now how much longer have we to wait before the Government arrives at it’s decision as to what will happen next. There seems to be an attitude that survivors will wait and wait and wait and wait……!
Submitted on the last possible working day of the month. Will copies of the Panel’s report forwarded to survivor representatives to peruse ? Especially as we have our own ideas on to the assets of these Religious Orders!
I hope the Government doesn’t pass this report onto the Religious Orders as they don’t need to see it … especially if all their financial statements are above board and kosher ….