Statutory fund. Ministers Answer
Chun an Aire Oideachais agus Scileanna
To the Minister for Education and Skills
To ask the Tánaiste and Minister for Education and Skills the details regarding the agreement reached with the religious orders for the transfer of assets and cash in compensation in respect of persons (details supplied); the way in which she intends to distribute same to those known victims; and if she will make a statement on the matter.
– Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin.
for the dreadful treatment meted out to countless children banished to their ‘care’ over several decades
Freagra – Answer
Tánaiste Mary Coughlan
At the meeting on 15th April last, the Taoiseach advised the religious congregations of the Government’s view that it would be a fair and reasonable outcome in all the circumstances for the State and those responsible for the residential institutions, to meet the final costs of responding to residential institutional abuse, which are estimated to reach some €1.36bn, on a 50:50 basis.
As the Deputy is aware the Congregations are offering significant additional contributions, which they have valued at €348.51m. While more detailed work and discussion is necessary with the Congregations in relation to the detail of their property offers, assuming these contributions are fully realised, the Congregations’ collective contributions to date, when account is taken of the original €128m contribution under the 2002 Indemnity Agreement, amount to €476.51m. This leaves a target of over €200m to reach the 50% share of the overall projected costs, of some €680m. The Government requested that additional contributions be provided to the greatest degree possible in cash as a contribution to the planned National Children’s Hospital. Officials are engaging with each of the Congregations in relation to their current offers and how the objective of a 50:50 sharing of the overall costs will be achieved.
The Government announced its proposal to utilise the cash element of the Congregations’ current offers of contributions, which will amount to some €110m over the next few years, to establish a Statutory Fund, in keeping with the all party Motion passed by Dáil Éireann, supporting the proposal for a Trust for the support of victims and to other education and welfare purposes. Following consultation with the Congregations and the former residents as to the exact nature of the fund, how it will operate and the uses to which it will be put, the arrangements for the Statutory Fund will be considered by the Government. This Fund, which will be to support the needs of survivors is separate and distinct from the compensation scheme operated by the independent Residential Institutions Redress Board, which provides fair and reasonable awards to victims of institutional childhood abuse.
There was nothing fair about it,
P ,you are right .It’s been convienent for the Last Government to lump all cases together as one , where as all cases are Totally different ,!st their was those who mitched off school aged 14 and sent to places like Artane, 2nd those who Were only Babies and young Children dragged before the criminal court >Charged and sentenced to Reformatorys for all of most of their childhoods this was Illegal, take places like Goldenbridge it was a Brutal Reformatory until 1963 ,when it changed to an orphanage with new staff ,children were then sent outside to the National school for education , A totally different case .It was a different place then so those children can’t be classed the same as those who were incarsarated in early’r years in the Reforamority at all.
Christine buckley spoke to the papers about the changes. she said that once the other nun took over it was a happy place so from the time XS left things must have changed a lot goldenbridge was a place of laughter. i cant imagine laughing in front of XS.But i do remember the younger nun she was not as crazy as XS.
Goldenbridge was NO longer an Industrial school from 1964, It became an orphanage and more open it changed completely It was not the same type of place at all.
Hi Peter
What do you do about all the people who were rejected -late applying to the redress board?. What do you do with all the people who decided that they could not go through with redress board application and finally what do you do with people who were in institutions that the government denies it has responsibility for?ese Do we leave all these people out because they did no make it to the board?
Sally
I think all survivors who had their case heard by the Readress Board should be awarded some of the 110m erous not anybody else. These people suffered and are still surffing and this money is belong them.
Peter
Pauline i cant speak for the sixties . I don’t know what you personally went through .
How can you walk a mile in my shoes ? and more so how can you minimise with words what the conditions were like for those after your years ?
and many of the older survivors feel that the industrial schools changed a lot after x s left in the sixties and later on the factory closed down
……………….
part of the differculty in knowing what to do is that there are so many of us , and many of the older survivers feel that the industriel schools changed a lot after x s left in the sixties and later on the factory closed down. so thay were no longer industriel schools.thay had the same schooling as others. yet these groups are very often composed of these survivers.and thats been the case for years now . so what was it like , not much like the workhouse conditions of the fifties or early sixties so what is the secret , i would like to understand
100 per cent agree robert
it was done was to satisfy the government and then the public would be sick to the teeth of hearing anything further like the way survivors are being treated.
those who came forward firstly (we know who they are they were treated like kings and queens) because the government thought if they make deals with these people by giving them a tiny bit of power they will feel important and will go along with them on their views for survivors.
properganda has hold of this whole affair and the media’s hands are tied.
the government no longer want the church just as us but the government want all their assets for themselves.
the government lost face in the public eye and the church is to blame.
thus the public were bored to the teeth of repeated stories of the bishops priests nuns and christian brothers the attack was on and the way it was done was to satisfy the government and then the public would be sick to the teeth of hearing anything further like the way survivors are being treated.
hi robert the ryan report should have come out before the cases !!!!!!!!!!clever the way they did it cart before the horse !!!!!!
and still they do wrong by us the survivors and survivors we are .good god almighty i was put in at 13 weeks old and i object to having a criminal conviction as i would have like most of us been to young to charge with any crime, so everything was illegal from day one ! and its sad to think they are not doing right by us in any way that i can see or hear ! they are still pulling the strings ! control and power !the sad thing is some of our own fellow survivors are doing it to us and all for money ,money never did me any good as i went to rich people two pedoPHiles ran away at 15 would rather have lived in a tent with a loving family everything we should have had under our human right was taken away ,family , protection ,care,food,clothing,birthdays, xmas,siblings, education ,privacy, playtime,
a warm bed and they are still making us relive and relive what we went through ,this in itself is cruelty at its WORST, maybe we should sue them for causing us continual suffering enough is enough ! play fair and forget the fund and let us adults now decide for ourselves NO LONGER ,under the thumb of the church or the irish goverment.
hi bernadette i have written also, but no answers yet.
we were brought up to do what we are told OR ELSE that feeling is still there even the groups practice this with survivors who thought they
HAD TO GO THROUGH THEM FOR REDRESS THAT CARROT LEFT THE WORST TASTE WE HAVE EVER EXPERIENCED SINCE THE FIRST TIME WE HEARD THOSE WORDS OF FEAR.
THIS WHOLE ISSUE OF ABUSE IS A ROTTEN CARROT.
WHAT STIKES ME IS WHY ARE PEOPLE STILL GOING TO THE REDRESS WHEN THE RYAN REPORT IS THERE TO GO BY THEY NOW HAVE MORE EVIDENCE AT THEIR FINGER TIPS THAN THOSE WHO WENT BEFORE THE RYAN REPORT CAME OUT?.
hi everyone just had a thought did we agree at any time in the past to a trust fund?no! was it suggested before redress was set up ? no!did we sigh any document after we were paid out saying that any futher money given by the religious orders for us could be used in this way ?no!more importantly were we asked ?no! was it in the remit at the beginning of all our cases ?no have the irish goverment asked us what we want? no! have cori ?no! if not why not? the opinion of about a dozen people is not the opinion of all survivors !!!!!!!!so we have to make them listen i for one have written to everyone i can think of we shall see the out come but we must keep at them or it will be to late !!!! the fund will be set up and we will yet agian be victims without a voice
so get writing PLEASE !
well spoken mossie i see your point but somehow i also feel it is the division for both meaning the group now has to up hold the spending and account for who where why when how they spend the money and the other is to limit expectations of survivors.
its not about us survivors who need the support the hearing the understanding, ITS ALL ABOUT MONEY WITH THEM.
no one really cares about us lets not live in fantasy land we are faced with the demon itself. a force without care and consideration, reasoning, expectations. the answer will always be not enough money to go round not where the need is and who needs it.
we have a sense of greed verses need.
sometimes we also have those who want more of their share (groups) yet do not have a need. but very little has been made available due to the demon/supplier. the government the religious the groups as they are all a like known by our experiences NEGLECT
ROBERT, YOU WILL NEVER BE ABLE TO COLLECT THE NAMES FROM THE SURVIVORS TO FORM A PETITION, WHY? BECAUSE THE SO CALLED GROUP LEADERS KEEP THE NAMES IN THEIR DATA-BANKS, AND WHEN SOMEONE NEEDS THEM TO CONTACT THE SURVIVOR, THE GROUP LEADERS CLOSES RANKS STRAIGHT AWAY SAYING, THE NAMES CANNOT BE RELEASED AS IT WOULD BE A BREACH OF CONFIDENTIALITY, THIS WAY NO ONE GETS THE NAMES, RESULTING IN THE SURVIVORS NEVER GETTING TO KNOW WHAT IS HAPPENING.
THESE NAMES ARE USED BY THE LIKES OF BARRY, BUCKLEY, AND THE REST OF THESE D**K HEADS TO OBTAIN FUNDING FROM THE HSE IN ORDER TO PAY THEIR WAGES, AND NOTHING MORE. HENCE ALL THESE ILLEGAL MEETINGS THAT ARE TAKING PLACE AROUND THE COUNTRY AT PRESENT, CHAIRED BY ONE MR FRANCIS TREANOR WHO WAS EMBEDDED BY THE HSE TO FORCE THESE MEETINGS ON THE SURVIVORS FOR THEIR OWN REASONS, WHAT EVER THEY MAY BE.
I HAVE IT ON GOOD AUTHORITY FROM ONE OF THESE SO CALLED ELECTED PEOPLE THAT, MR TREANOR WAS FORCED ON THEM, AND THEY HAD NO CHOICE IN THE MATTER. SO WHAT DOES THAT TELL YOU OF THESE PEOPLE WHO PROPOSE TO SPEAK ON YOUR BEHALF.
YOU DECIDE.
SORRY TO HAVE TO SAY TO YOU DORIS. BUT THESE PARASITES, OR SO CALLED ( GROUP LEADERS ) AS THEY ARE CALLED, ( ARE NOT, I REPEAT, ARE NOT ) BEING INVESTIGATED FOR THE MISUSE, AND TOTAL ABUSE OF THE FUNDS THEY HAVE RECEIVED IN OUR NAMES. DESPITE ALL THE MEDIA COVERAGE, AND COMPLAINTS THAT WERE LODGED, THE GOVERNMENT HAVE NOT MADE ANY MOVES WHAT SO EVER, TO INVESTIGATE THESE PEOPLE. IT IS LOOKING VERY LIKELY THAT THEY ARE TRYING TO COVER UP WHAT EVER ( SCULDUGGERY ) IS GOING ON BEHIND THE SCENE.
DO THESE SO CALLED MINISTERS, AND SO CALLED GROUP LEADERS HAVE SOMETHING TO HIDE????????????
I BET THEY HAVE.
hello pauline you have every right to write to whoever you wish to how are you love .here is the address. THE EUROPEAN OMBUDSMAN 1 AVENUE DU PRESIDENT ROBERT SCHUMAN CS 30403 F-67001 STRAZBURG CEDEX FRANCE. i wish you all the luck with that .take care ….dorris.
hello doris if paddy axceptes could you let me know who to write to , the name and address,
goes to show weve had ten yrs of support groups and yet we have to take on the european rights ourselves .if they ever were to do anything right one is to take up our fight there !!
hi dorris just done the same maybe also the minister for justice ? because this is not justice ! awaiting the address of a solicitor see what he thinks of all this good guy and he likes a challenge and we should a be challenging the irish goverment on this issue ! and the education dept who still do not let us know what is going on until the deeds are done again our opinions are not considered at all ! will any of the people being investaged be let in charge of this fund ? we have to stop this now i am on board as you know we need numbers now that will count so again i urge every one to keep writing we have voices now we must use them
ps I HAVE ALSO WRITTEN TO THE EUROPEAN UNION OMBUDSMAN.ROBERT SCHUMAN TO SEE IF HE CAN HELP.
I FOR ONE WILL NEVER BE SILENCED ANYMORE.I HAVE WRITTEN TO THE HUMAN RIGHTS IN STRASBURG .THE EUROPIAN UNION THE HIGHEST YOU CAN GO.EUROPEAN COURT OF JUSTICE.AND TOLD THEM WHAT HAS BEEN HAPPENING WITH THE SURVIVORS.HOW WE ARE STILL BEING TREATED BY THE IRISH GOVERMENT AND THESE DISCUSTING GROUP LEADERS AND HOW THEY HAVE BEEN OPPERATING.AND ARE STILL UNDER INVESTAGATION.SO I SUGGEST YOU ALL DO THE SAME OTHERWISE WE WILL ALWAYS BE THE VICTIMS WE WILL HAVE DONE OUR JOB .NOW LEAVE IT TO THE EUROPIAN UNION TO SORT THEM LOT OUT.
will we always be silent screamers. what happened in the sixties and seventies in the instutions, how come that did not even learn how to read or write , i remember that when severia decided that someone was not learning fast enough she took them out of school, and turned them into cleaners ,i still remember the anger of one of them , but i always saw her anger as a sign of intellegence
the government are politisons only.
how do they know what is good for survivors of abuse they are not qualified to think on what is best for us, only the finances of the state to see fit what professional in their field advise them..
other wise this is not a democratic state but a dictatorship. i suggest all of us write to the ombusman now and forward our complaints as european courts would only ask you what avenues you took and readvise you this is a long process.
try and gather as many survivors as you can to sign they oppose the funds as they are.
i am sure if you look you will find them mostly hanging around the groups they are supposed to be members of, but are in no hope of receiving anything from them, only waiting for the fulfillment the false promeses they made to them.
HOW IN GODS NAME CAN THESE PEOPLE WHO CLAIM THEY WERE DAMAGED BY THE GOVERNMENT AND RELIGIOUS BE RESPONSIBLE FOR MAKING DECISIONS ON EDUCATION, COUNSELLING AND WELFARE THAT HAS TAKED SO MANY YEARS FOR PROFESSIONAL PEOPLE TO EVEN QUALIFY?
One good thing about this Statutory Fund is that it will prevent so-called ‘victim representatives’ from building an empire based on our abuse.
It’s a pity though that the Government didn’t consult with us – the survivors – instead of wasting time talking to these so-called representatives. The Government had the wherewithal to consult us all individually through the Redress Board and ask our opinions of the ‘wealth submissions’ and what to do with them. The Dail decided otherwise and I accept that.
In the Institutions we were told to shut up and be quiet. The Redress Board has further silenced us with gagging orders – sure it’s no wonder our voices aren’t even in the equation. The powers-that-be think we should continue to be quiet.
Sally, have you never spoken/met paddy before ?
Thankyou anyway for your suggestions on what YOU think is right for our needs. To be honest, so long as someone contacts me to ask what I need-I.E- Christine Buckley or whoever, I shall be pleased, and shall gladly give all my debts, bills, health care needs e.c.t. Now as for doing something creative, well, I’m a little bit stuck there as my health is poor and I haven’t the energy to work, or even take pleasure from sitting through a course of some sort. ABSOLUTELY INSULTING !!
Now Sally, when you say welfare, that feels much better as the welfare of survivors would cover things like alleviating the pressure from survivors who have heavy debts, bills, Housing problems, serious health concerns????..yeh, thats ok.I agree with that and welcome that also..just so long as they get a move on before more of us pass away!
I’ll say no more here only..The European Courts will be the next step. Any fool and his donkey knows what has been done here AGAIN IS ILLEGAL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!ONE DAY THIS WILL ALL BACK FIRE ON THOSE WHO COULD HAVE/SHOULD HAVE HELPED; AND THEY WILL WISH THEY’D DONE THE RIGHT THING FIRST TIME ROUND !
Lets fight this all the way. If no one is prepared to help me or any other survivor from these group reps and ask me what needs paying? how much debt are you in? would you and your family like a nice holiday for a break? YOU KNOW THE KIND OF THINGS SUPPORT GROUPS WOULD AND SHOULD ASK IF BEING FUNDED BY GOVERNMENT TO DO SO! The fight is what we do. No if’s no buts. And as weary as I am, what else is there to lose anymore?
Anne.
if you take away all the money from the whole argument and think again the question remains
WHAT THE HELL DID THE IRISH GOVERNMENT AND RELIGIOUS DO TOWARDS SURVIVORS SO FAR.
NOW THAT IS THE QUESTION OF ALL QUESTIONS.
secondly how can a government and all parties make such a decision alone?
these decisions have to be made by those who are experienced in supporting people who have been abuse the government alone have no right to act as if they know what helps people survive a whole childhood of abuse this is where we should fight this government.
they are not DOCTORS, PSYCHIATRISTS, PSYCHOLOGISTS, these politicians have no idea on how funds can work for us survivors.
AND THEIR FOOLISH ANSWER IS THESE KANGAROO GROUPS WHO HAVE NO CLUE AT ALL REGARDING THEIR OWN LIVES LET ALONE OURS.
WE NEED TO FIGHT THIS DECISION OR WE WILL HAVE TO SUFFER BY ILL TREATMENT AGAIN.
I SAY WE ALL SHOULD TAKE THIS WHOLE THING TO THE OMBUDSMAN AND EUROPEAN COURTS.
WHAT A LOAD OF B….OCKS WE DO NOT REPETE NOT WANT FURTHER EDUCATION WE WANT TO BE ABLE TO TAKE CARE OF OURSELVES AND NOT FOR ANY CENTER TO DECIDE ANYTHING FOR US YET AGAIN.DO YOU LOT THINK WE REALLY ARE STUPID WE HAVE NOT AND WILL NOT BENEFIT FROM THIS MONEY OTHER THAN THESE SO CALLED GROUP LEADERS WHO ARE STILL BEING INVESTIGATED OVER LOST MONEY WHICH SHOULD HAVE GONE TO THE SURVIVORS WE WILL NOT ACCEPT ANY MORE BULL…T FROM ANYONE ANYMORE.WE NEED GUYS TO WRITE TODAY TO THE EUROPIAN UNION AND SEE WHAT CAN BE DONE ABOUT THESE FARCE OF A SITUATION THESE GREADY LACKING HUMANITY BAS…..HAVE DONE TO US.
sally keep up your good work but let me say this . i like many others who went before the redress didnt reiceive fair and just compensation .
If we fail to fight hard and properly advocate our case, and work to achieve a settlement that benefits then many many people will be let down.
has this already not happened . forget the fund thats peanuts compared to what they should have rightly paid
now when times get tough we must what ? pick up the phone explain why we are badly in need then beg …..please
hello SALLY NICE TO MEET YOU ? I SUPPOSE OUR BASIC NEEDS ARE TOP PRIORITIES AS IS HUMAN . BUT IT SEEMS TO ME THAT EVERYTHING WILL GO ON AS USUAL . AS THESE PEOPLE HAVE HAD TEN YEARS TO HOUSE AND EDUCATE SURVIVERS. AND UP UNTIL NOW HOW MANY SURVIVERSHAVE THAY HOUSED OR EDUCATED. I WOULDNT KNOW BECAUSE OF TOTAL LACK OF INFORMATION . WHOS GOING TO GET ALL RICH THANKS TO US THIS TIME AROUND
Paddy
Thank you for posting my words and thanks to David and Charles for their encouraging remarks.
Further to my posting on your site, I want to add if I may a further comment. I may not be very popular for my views but its time for reality to kick in.
In the light of the Minister for Education & Skills, Minister Mary Coughlan’s reply to a Parliamentary question this week, which you have helpfully posted, it must be clear to everyone now that a Statutory Fund is what is on the table. There is no ‘windfalls’ or individual cash handouts or anything else. It seems to me that our so called Leaders should stop misleading and should stop deluding people into believing that they have the power to obtain a cash settlement for each and every survivor. Its not going to happen.
According to the Minister, that this Fund will be used for education, welfare and counselling. What she also pointed out is that it’s not just the Government who decided this; this was agreed by all political parties in the Dail.
Meetings held with staff of the Redress Unit in the last ten days have started that process of consultation. I understand that very soon the Department are going to advertise and invite people to give their views. I am glad and quite relieved that survivors do not have to solely rely on ‘representatives’ to get their views across.
We are not fools, but intelligent people who have opinions and aspirations that should be heard. We want to achieve a fair and just settlement and we have the chance to say it– let all our voices be heard. Again your words nothing about us without us ring so true.
We need to work together to secure the best possible agreement for survivors and start negotiating NOW. If we waste it by spending time giving false hope to Survivors we will not be forgiven. People want a fair deal, they want justice and they want closure.
I want to see a Fund that offers those most in need , those with long term care needs and people who continue to suffer taken care of for the rest of their lives.
I also want to see a Fund that provides for opportunities for survivors to advance and enhance their quality of life by being given opportunities to do different things, to be able to be creative or to do something educational if that is their wish. We have a chance to have our say and ensure as far as possible the maximum numbers of survivors benefit from having a Fund that is flexible and accessible. There should be no means testing. It is all about negotiating what is best.
If these so called leaders don’t want to negotiate around what is actually on the table let them pass over the responsibility to individuals (including yourself Paddy) who like you, have the ability, the knowledge and commitment to negotiate a fair and just settlement. If we fail to fight hard and properly advocate our case, and work to achieve a settlement that benefits then many many people will be let down.
I am determined that the 31% of all survivors who fled Ireland and live in Britain will have their voices heard. The Coalition of Support Groups and the Women’s Group will maximise our opportunities to ensure a fair and just settlement. We hope others will have the foresight and maturity do likewise.
Sally Mulready
Would the minister be so kind as to elaborate on 1.support for victims. 2. Other education and welfare purposes.? Will victims have to grovel for support? How many of the groups apart from Christine Buckleys,want a trust fund.? What about those victims who don’t belong to any group. Are we all to be ignored in favour of 1 group?
Fair and reasonable?. There was nothing ‘fair or reasonable’ about it. Now it surely has to be the time for ALL VICTIMS to join together and fight this decision.
independent Residential Institutions Redress Board, which provides fair and reasonable awards to victims of institutional childhood abuse.
only a goverment official or religious order would see the above as true
would the bill be 1.36 billion if we all got our day in court