Summary of Main Provisions of the Statutory Fund
Eligibility
Those eligible for assistance from the Fund will be those former residents who were offered awards from the Residential Institutions Redress Board (RIRB) or who received awards pursuant to court actions and who would otherwise have received awards from the RIRB.
Functions/Provisions of the Statutory Fund
The principal function of the Statutory Fund will be to make arrangements for the provision of approved services to support the needs of former residents and to pay grants to former residents to assist them to avail of approved services.
Approved services will include such counselling services, psychological support services and mental health services, and such health and personal social services, educational services and housing services as the Fund may determine.
The Fund will also promote understanding of the effects of abuse on former residents among service providers and will evaluate the effectiveness of the approved services in meeting the needs of former residents.
The Fund can consult with former residents as it considers appropriate.
Funding for the Statutory Fund
The costs of the Fund will be met from the contributions from the religious congregations, which will be lodged to a special investment account managed by the National Treasury Management Agency. These contributions will be construed as fulfilling a charitable purpose. It is expected that the amount available to the Fund will be €110 million.
Administration of the Scheme
The Fund will be established as a corporate body. The Board of the Fund will comprise 7 members, including 2 former residents, and insofar as is practicable, the Minister will ensure an equitable gender balance. In appointing the other members of the Board, the Minister will ensure that members have knowledge and expertise in relation to financial management, administration, health and social personal services and counselling, psychology or mental health services.
The members will not be remunerated and will serve a four year term of office but will not be eligible to serve for more than 2 consecutive terms.
The chief executive officer of the Fund will manage and control the administration of the Fund and will be accountable to the Public Accounts Committee and other Oireachtas Committees. The accounts of the Fund will be audited by the Comptroller and Auditor General.
The Fund will appoint, with the consent of the Minister, such and so many persons to be members of the staff of the Fund as it may from time to time determine.
The Fund will seek to achieve the most beneficial, effective and efficient use of the resources available to it. It will be subject to the terms of the Freedom of Information and Ombudsman Acts.
Applications
Provision is included in the General Scheme to allow the Residential Institutions Redress Board advise the Statutory Fund of the name, address and date of birth of award recipients. Such a provision will allow the Fund to confirm applicants’ eligibility.
The Fund will determine the extent of, and conditions attaching to, the provision of approved services. It will determine the criteria it will use to make decisions and will publish these criteria. It will determine the application process and will be able to refuse applications not made in accordance with the approved process.
The Fund will liaise with public service providers in relation to the provision of services to former residents.
Education Finance Board
The Education Finance Board will be dissolved and its functions transferred to the Fund.
I went to the redress board under the name alexandra morecambe I have since changed my name by deedpoll to the above name and want to get this information to this new board but there doesn’t seem to be a way of contacting them what do I do
Does anyone know the criteria or what we can claim under the Statutory Trust Fund. How many more years before it is open to claim? It is getting to be the same as the Redress Board – 10 years later (all them wasted years) before I get a hearing and then it all crashes down on me. Will this STF be the same?
I think it is very unfair that the State of Ireland is stealing the Money we survivors of the hellholes of Ireland got from our abusers, the religious. It is the State that should pay for people who didn’t get an education in those places. We survivors from the fifties and sixties,who now consider ourselves too old for education should get financial help from the trust fond to enable us a holiday once a year. Due to a deprived childhood without any education our pensions are very small as our jobs didn’t give us so much pay.
My question is: how can I get some of this Money that is rightly mine so I can enjoy a holiday once a year?. It isn’t that Money that should finance the people who will futher their education. That ought to be the responsability of the State who deprived them of their rights.
When I was sixteen I was sent to a convent who looked after ‘illigitimate’ Children who were later adopted to America and Ireland. We worked as slaves with very Little pay. They called it an education which we could call ourselves nannys after two years in slavery and later we were sent out to a family to look after their Children and their homes. for very little pay. It was no better than the Girls who were sent to the laundries. We were never asked what we wanted to do. Everything was arranged over our heads. And without a language or basic education we were without Tools to crave our rights. I for one have suffered all my Life due to a very bad self esteem because of lack of education.That lack was a constant source of embarrasment. Everything I learnt was self taught as one didn’t have the time or Money to go to school back in the old days.
Now in my latter years of life I would like to get some of that trust money to have a holiday once a year.
Could anyone tell me how I should go about getting my rights? Please let me know. Mary
A very Happy Christmas to you too. Let’s keep the flag flying for 2013. I hope it brings you all you wish and hope for. Paddy.
Merry Christmas Paddy, It’s been a good year and next year will be even better.
And a very MERRY CHRISTMAS TO YOU SEANIE. I hope 2013 brings you everything you wish for and much more. Paddy
A very merry chrietmas to all from the arizona desert. Maybe the new Yea 2013r will bring some peace to us all.
seanie.
I really cannot believe the pathetic excuse that was given by the (So Called Chairman) of the group Right of Place Second Chance, Mr Michael Walsh, as to why the AGM which was to be held in Galway was suddenly postponed.
He maintains some difficulties were brought to his attention by his legal team when examining a nunber of proceedures for holding an AGM meeting. This of course is not what happened at all.
Mr Walsh, we ALL know the reason why this AGM of your’s was cancelled. It was cancelled because you were advised by your Fundmaster the (HSE) who pointed out to you, that your proceedures were incorrect, as NO agenda had been sent out to your (SO CALLED) members for this AGM. Thereby, making the meeting (ILLEGAL) By the way Mr Walsh, just WHO is paying for your legal advise now? As we would ALL like to know.
Any ordinary person could tell straight away that your usual, push through proceedures were incorrect. You are there long enough now to know how to call an AGM meeting. Perhaps you were not tutored correctly by your last Outreach Co-ordinator? Dont know really why you ever took advice from that source?
I say that this is nothing but a blatent lie. (WHY) i maintain that if your legal team had gone through the proper proceedure in the first place, which obviously they did not, Mr Walsh would NOT have sent out his Newsletter to his membership in the manner that he did. Even i know the proper proceedure to do this.
And as far as being fair is concerned, you would not know the meaning of the word. You had intended doing the same as you did last year, and thought you would have got away with it yet again. Who is your legal advisor anyway? Whoever it is obviously is NOT very bright.
And yes, i suggest that before sending out information in the future to your (So Called Members) you follow the correct proceedures, and not be making a fool of yourself like you just did.
May i remind you yet again Mr Walsh, that Cork is the main Headquarters for Right of Place, and yet you steer clear from holding your AGM meeting here. The first AGM meeting (Should) have been held in Cork. You intend to hold next years in (Limerick) a place that does not even have an office, and Cork the following year. May i also point out, Cork happens to hold the main bulk of Survivors.
We are all too well aware Mr Walsh (WHY) you do not want to have this meeting here in Cork dont we? You are totally scared of the Survivors down here, because you know only too well of the hostile reception you will get from True Survivors, just like you got before, you are afraid of them.
And dont be making the excuses that you recognise that all of your membership deserve a chance to attend your AGM meetings at some stage in their areas. Members deserve to attend ALL AGM meetings, all the time. Mr Walsh. You do NOT want Survivors here in Cork attending, as they are too smart for you all. You dont know the meaning of the word Fair. This is (FACT)
You state clearly in your (FAQ’s) the only benefits from being a member of your organisation are, and i quote.
“The ONLY benefits of being a member of Right of Place Second Chance are that you can attend and vote at AGM’s and they are entitled to receive a quarterly Newsletter from you. These are the only benefits”
As far as i can see, there is NO point in being a member of that group, if that is ALL you offer the member?
Mr Walsh, you have also stated in your letter on your Website that the fastest way to call one of your Regional Offices is by clicking on the link you have provided in your letter.
I have done this, only to find that you have NOT even bothered your Blarney to update your office hours. None of the times you have supplied on your website is correct, as all of your offices hours have been cut to a few hours per week, due to cuts in funding as you have previously stated. Once again, you are NOT supplying the services you are claiming to, to vunerable Survivors. It clearly goes to show, you do NOT give a damn about the anybody but yourselves.
We are to believe that your Outreach Co-ordinator has resigned some time ago Mr Walsh. Is this correct? And if so, could you tell us who the New Outreach Co-ordinator is?
You stated recently Sir, that a survivor will only become a full member once they are members for a full year after signing the forms you sent out a few months ago to update their membership.
If this is the case Sir, then NONE of your members who updated their membership will be eligible to attend your next AGM, or to vote at this AGM as they will NOT be a full year as a full member. Have you thought of this? I guess not.
This was pointed out to you, and your son at a recent meeting in The Imperial Hotel in Cork a week or two ago, by one of your own staff members. We all noticed that you did NOT give him a direct answer. So could you please clarify just exactly what the criteria is, Survivors will have to meet, in order to attend, and vote at this AGM?
We await your response to our queries, also to see the proper paperwork being posted for this upcoming AGM meeting.
AGM meeting, ROPSC.
I have written to the HSE today to express my dissatisfaction with the group ROPSC., and i would urge, any other Survivor, who feels that they are NOT getting the services which these people claim to be administering, to put pen to paper, or email Mr Willie McAllister’s Secretary at the HSE. Email given at the end of this letter.
Mr Michael Walsh has called for an AGM to be held in Galway this year on December 06th. However, he has NOT sent out a proper invitation to his (Supposed to be Membership) Instead, he sent out a Newsletter compiled with old news clippings from the past year, which is nothing but Propaganda, and nothing more.
Seemingly, he now states that the only Survivors who will be eligible to vote at this AGM meeting will be, members who have updated their membership forms earlier in the year. Members will need to have done this a year ago., otherwise they will NOT be eligible to vote. No one else will be allowed to vote.
These forms were sent out to members on their Database, and members were asked to update their information, so that the database could be updated. I believe, not very many Survivors had responded to this request by ROPSC.
As anyone who did fill out these forms will NOT be a full year as official members of this group, they will NOT be entitled to vote at this AGM in Galway on December the 06th. These were Mr Michael Walsh’s very own words, at our meeting last week, which was held in The Imperial Hotel in Cork City last Saturday. A meeting which Michael Walsh, and his son Micheal attended.
I believe that (2) members of his board of directors are due to stand down at this AGM, but their ploy is to have these two board members reelected from the floor again. I believe, this is the intention of Mr Michael Walsh (Chairman) This being the case, ROPSC will NOT wish to have anyone who do not agree with their corrupt policies to be present at this meeting, and therefore get in their way of reelecting their chosen board.
Yet again, ROPSC are trying to make it as difficult as they possibly can for genuine Survivors to have ANY say whatsoever on the electing of the board of directors, and the Chairman. Mr Walsh’s position as (Chairman) will NOT be up for reelection, because he maintains on taking over the reins, it was agreed the Chairman’s position was a (2) yearly appointment. (THIS IS NOT CORRECT) Mr Walsh made this rule up himself.
If you are dissatisfied with Right of Place Second Chance, NOW is your time to voice your concerns to the HSE. You can email……… joanne.white@hse.ie Please address your concerns to Joanne. If you wish, you can also send your personal hand written letters to,
Mr Willie McAllister,
OPS Manager,
Louth PCC,
Oriel Suite,
St, Brigid’s Campus,Ardee,
County Louth.
Well said Robert, a lot of people have done so well out of all this – history repeating itself again. My experience has been that they do not really care about us and they think we are a load of liars.
We have over 18000 who witnessed and survived the abuse.
Both Irish Government and Religious have admitted both their guilt.
We have the ryan report and many other reports to prove the damage done to over 18000 lives and their families.
We have the education fund
we have the counseling fund
we have the family tracing fund
((( all finished))))
NOW we have now a Statutory fund 110 million euro.
The Government and Religious have a 50 50 deal
YET TO THIS VERY DAY MR. RYAN AND ALL REPORTS BY WHOM VIEWS ARE TO BE USED REGARDING HOW TO DEAL WITH THOSE ABUSED.
BUT THERE IS STILL TO-DATE NO INDEPENDENT BODY SET UP TO MAKE SURE EACH SURVIVOR HAS THE HEALING THEY SO NEED FOR THE DAMAGE DONE TO THEM
*((ACCORDING))*
TO THE RYAN REPORT AND ALL OTHER REPORTS.
HERE WE HAVE THE WHOLE TRUTH
THE GOVERNMENT AND RELIGIOUS ARE IN FULLY CONTROL OF THEIR OWN GUILT AND SURVIVORS ARE TO PAY THEM 110 MILLION.
MR. RYAN WHERE IS THE JUSTICE ACCORDING TO THE REPORTS?????
MR. RYAN WHERE IS THE HEALING ACCORDING TO THE DAMAGE DONE ACCORDING TO YOUR REPORTS????
YOU MADE THE REPORTS BUT TO DATE ONLY PAYMENT FOR SIGNATURES OF THOSE WHO SURVIVED AND HELPED YOUR OWN RESEARCH FOR THE REPORTS TO BE POSSIBLE.
WHERE IS THE BODY OF EXPERTS TO MAKE SURE THE GOVERNMENT AND THE RELIGIOUS DO WHAT IS RIGHT TO SUPPORT SURVIVORS WHO WITNESSED THE CRIMES THEY DID THAT DESTROYED OVER 18000 LIVES?????? ACCORDING TO REPORTS???
OR ARE THESE REPORTS BEING USED FOR ANOTHER PURPOSE OTHER THAN HEALING?
The latest on the group (Right of Place Second Chance}
I got some information today from a friend, and what he told me made me react to inform all Survivors of a possible breach of confidentiality regarding the security of their personal detals which are being held by the group (Right of Place Second Chance) in Lower Glanmire Road Cork.
On November the 7th, this person received a telephone call from a someone in the (Right of Place Offices) My friend wishes to leave the identity of this person anonymous for security reasons.
During this call, my friend told the caller from (ROP) that he believed a computer from their office had been removed by a member of their staff, and also expressed his concerns regarding the possibility of his personal, and confidential details, and that of his family, may have been accessed by persons NOT entitled to have access to this type of information.
He expressed his real concern, and fear to (ROP) and was informed that, the Administrator, who is a (NON MEMBER) and who works for this group, had authorised the removal of this computer, to upgrade it’s Database.
He asked this person in (ROP) to write an email to the (Chairman) of this group, Mr Michael Walsh, expressing his real concerns, and disgust, that this computer could virtually removed from the office, and could be seen by anyone, therefore breaching the Trust, and confidentiality he had entrusted to this group, (Right of Place) He also stated to this person, that had the computer needed upgrading, this task COULD have been carried out without any risk whatsoever in the offices of (ROP)
He added, in his opinion, the computer need not have been removed, and so he suspected there may have been an alternative reason for the removal of this computer.
Another aspect to this was, he found it very conspicuous, that the person he was speaking to, had asked the organisation on numerous occasions over the last two years, to upgrade the Database system. Then after two years, they mysteriously obliged, to the requests of the members in the office. The call lasted about an hour.
He received another phone call on the 12th Of November from the same person within (ROP) he had spoken to on the 7th November., and was informed that they had received a response from Michael Walsh, stating that (YES) a computer had indeed been removed, for the purpose of removing the names, and details of deceased members.
Mr Walsh also stated that he was very concerned by, how so many people outside the offices, knew about the inner office, and what was happening there. My friend was also told that the Outreach Officers were no longer allowed to take any more complaints, and must report all future complaints directly to the TOP.
My friend told me, that he finds this approach utterly inappropriate, as he knows that ALL complaints sent through this process will be brushed aside as Rubbish, and binned. He also asks, what are they paying Outreach Officers for, if they are NOT allowed to do the job they are being paid to do?
On the 10th of November, the night of the meeting in Kerry, this friend of mine received a phone call from another group, threatening him with Legal Action if any one of their names were mentioned at this meeting.
They were very hostile at first, but my friend returned their hostility and said he would hang up on them, if they continued threatening him in that manner they said, (OK) point taken’ they told him, they wished him luck in his quest, and he replied, he would NOT be bullied by anyone. My friend then hung up.
WATERFORD MEETING, SATUTDAY 10TH NOVEMBER 2012.
A meeting will be held in Waterford, in the Glenville Hotel, starting at 19.00hrs, and will continue until 21.00hrs.
All Survivors are welcome, regardless of group affiliation. This meeting is NOT bias against any one who wishes to attend. We have nothing to hide.
The main subject of this meeting will be focused around The New Statutory Trust Fund, and what it means for Survivors in general, and how this Fund is to be implemented.
We want to go forward together for once (Without Groups)
Mr Tom Cronin will be Chairing this meeting, and will also be answering questions on the topic of The New Statutory Trust Fund. He will also try and answer any other questions Survivors may wish to ask.
Another speaker will be Mr Michael O’Brien, who will also be answering any questions Survivors may have.
We would ask all Survivors, where ever you may be, to do your best and support this very important meeting. It is in your interest, and it will keep you updated on The New Trust Fund, and how it will effect you.
We look forward to seeing you all there.
Well thats good news. we who live outside ireland or england dont get any information from any groups at all and yet our data has been asked for But from what i have read on here thay dont speed up things at all for anything. Temporary places to live in wont help in the long run. KKeeping all these groups going costs a lot of money for whatever thay do. It would have been cheaper to buy up abandoned houses and give them to survivers to fix.
No problem Julie, you’re welcome, and yes these groups Are only looking out for themselves, and nothing else.
Take care.
Hi Mossie
Thanks for that. I don’t really have a lot to do with the groups as I think they are mainly out for themselves. My experiences with them have never been positive.
Hi Mossie,
Who will be Chairing this Meeting?
Will Notes /Minutes be taken and Circulated to those who cannot attend?
Could Skype be used to watch the Proceedings or Some other Medium? Or Videoed and Circulated on YouTube?
Just some thoughts on Inclusion for those who cannot attend?
PS:
Forgot to add the date to the above event, it’s on this Saturday, the 27th of October, in (The Railway Bar Hotel) in Limerick. All are welcome.
I think it should be the religous who atone. Everyones life was dominated by the church. Fear of having children when single has gone away. Millions of people are using contrecepton but still think of themselves as honest catholics.atonment is for those who were responsable. Education helping we understand that symbolic actes on one side or the other wont change things because thay change by themselves.Many dont go to church at all so who would it really affect.
Meeting to be held in Limerick
A meeting is to take place this weekend in (The Railway Bar Hotel) in Limerick, for all Survivors. This meeting will start at (17.00hrs, and will finish at 19.00 hrs).
This agenda is to discuss the lack of support Survivors are failing to receive from the group (Right of Place second Chance)
Just like the Cork, and limerick branches, Survivors in general are complaining about the lack of information, from the chairman Michael Walsh, his son Micheal, and the Co-ordinator, Mr Francis Treanor. Survivors have enough of this group, and its lack of support.
We have also had over (60) complaints from disgruntled members from the Waterford branch, which is the home base of the Chairman, and his son, which does not say a lot for them. Soon they wont even have a Waterford branch, and then (Right of Place Second Chance) will be no more.
What has happened to all this information which this group was to send out monthly? Complaints include the utter useless information which is displayed on the group’s Website, and which is of NO benefit to anyone.
All Survivors are welcome to attend this meeting, so please make every effort to attend. Your attendance is vital.
It is now time for Survivors to have a proper voice on their representation, and who ought to be representing them. People have had their bellyfull of these groups, and it is now time these people, who claim to be representing over 5,000 Survivors, are quizzed, and questioined, and asked to account truthfully, without the aid of a Dictator, for their failure as a Survivor group.
We would ask all Survivors to make a very special effort to attend this very important meeting, and to have your questions properly addressed, without being silenced by Dictators for once.
This is your meeting. Please support.
Subject: Celebrating 100 years of brutality by the followers of Edmund Rice and the Christian Brothers.
Submission to Mrs. Mary McAleese guest speaker at the Christian Brothers past pupils fundraising event to be held in Dublin Convention Centre on Saturday 20th October 2012 @ 6.30pm.
Dear Mrs. McAleese,
Had I been allowed to speak as requested the content would have been:-
Begin 1:
Steel yourselves gentlemen. I am neither a friend or grateful past pupil of your Christian Brothers Schools. I’m not here to congratulate anyone and say, ‘Well done faithful servant.’ My presence here may be seen as a messenger, and possibly your chance to remedy a horrible legacy, a frightful and hateful history that underpins the 250 years of your society. I suffered severely in Greenmount Industrial School under your management and supervision.
Indeed I am a past pupil and I speak for myself whilst conscious of the 170,000 Irish children delivered into your cruel care over the past 250 years. I have spent the last 12 years of my life, trying to improve the lives of survivors of the system.
All your works, including your Catholic empire building, are blighted by your most shameful involvement in the Industrial Schools system.
You herded, confined, perished, starved, bullied, battered, buggered, betrayed, flogged, neglected, and exploited innocent Irish children.
The perverse view that it was perfectly fine to treat us thus must have been aroused by an extraordinary belief that we were less than human, not even of God’s creation. Irish society was fully complicit in all this, yet there were dire warnings about treating children thus. Christ was very aware of what could happen, and must have shuddered on the Cross at the thought of what would happen in a future Ireland to His innocent children at the hands and fists and mouths of His so called followers.
Our only sin was poverty, needing alleviation not exploitation. But exploitation is what we got, and by the bellyful, delivered under a tsunami of brutality designed to dehumanise and traumatise, and which shell-shocked us into a condition where many were incapable of developing into loving, talented, and caring people we were meant to be.
How on earth are we expected to be thankful for this?
Unlike the 1943 Wanesee Conference conspiracy in Nazi Germany, there was no known nationwide plan to underpin the Irish Gulags. But the effects were nationwide, and remarkably uniform.
A system closely approximating cultural genocide took place when a whole subsection of Irish society was isolated and given the bare minimum to stay alive. A policy of undernourishment meant wizened underdeveloped bodies. I know. My brothers Liam, (Seán ) and I spent 35 years locked away in your Gulags.
Why did you perpetrate such neglect and pain? Christ never suggested anything like this. Au contraire.‘Do it to one of these, and you do it to me.’ He was divinely aware of what the possibilities were. ‘Touch one of these, and it would be better you were never born.’
Back in 1947 Fr. Flanagan of Boys-town Fame was only in the country a few days when he realised the terrible injustices inflicted on us. Politicians did not wish to upset Dublin Archbishop John Charles Mc Quade or the special relationship enshrined in the 1937 Constitution. Millstones should most certainly adorn various scrawny necks today in the darkest recesses of Hell.
Perhaps celibacy and chastity are the true culprits. Religious consecration does not eliminate the weakness of our human nature. Poverty, chastity and obedience may give rise to an internal struggle’ directly at variance with a healthy, wholesome, balanced, happy life.
Did generations of ‘religious’ become detached from the human side of their natures with catastrophic results for us? Possibly good old Irish social snobbery was, and still is the root cause.
The education that we were given was so poor, it makes it difficult to comprehend that the religious orders that dominated the Industrial school system-the Christian Brothers and Mercy Sisters- prided themselves on their achievements in ‘educating the children of the Nation.’ A cruel irony remains in the case of many truants from the National schools who were committed by the judiciary to an Industrial school ‘to ensure supposedly they received an education’, but we were not educated. Can anyone tell me why this was so?
That particular dish was never on the menu. Even basic literacy was seen as unimportant and inappropriate for us.
We were prepared for an adult life of menial servile labour to keep us firmly at the bottom of the social pile – that was the State Policy notwithstanding the Constitutional position on equal treatment for all.
We shall be haunted by what Ryan has found out for he has revealed a Great Famine of Compassion, and a plague of deliberate cruelty ’ in our institutions. Ryan is mind-boggling! lest we, or you forget.
Shriveled, undernourished and battered children were groomed for a future of drudgery and illiteracy, while their counterparts often in the same towns and villages, and at the same time, were consistently selected by social class, not ability, and were being pushed, with extra classes on Saturdays, towards the upper echelons in the law, civil-service, et cetera.
How much of the financial budgets earmarked by government for the Industrial schools were hived off by the Orders for their more superior class schools and other enterprises? Estimates do vary, but 25% looks about right. This was Thievery on a grand scale.
We must not forget that the Income from the Industrial Schools was the means through which the State endowed the Christian Brothers and followers of Edmund Rice in violation of the Constitution. Our vulnerable Irish children paid an awful price for all that.
Daily life in the Industrial School for me was filled with terror and fear. Twisted moral teaching, religious observance, and slave labour were all enlisted in the program to control and condition us. We were in an all male society, a dangerous world, which could never meet the human needs of developing children. According to their treatment of us. Christ was now on the side of the bloated and well off.
Widow’s mites were never enough; when one was embarked on Catholic globalised empire building. For this you took our bread from our mouths, and clothes from our backs, and light, love and comfort from our minds and souls.
The monastic atmosphere in class was repeated later on in refectories and dormitories. The brutal regimes, a far too spiritual life with its rigorously enforced deadly silences along with constant religious orientations, can never be the basis for young boys and girls entering the outside world. Oh how we suffered. No hope, no light, no stimulus, nothing to look forward to. No joy; No life outside this cruel routine. We were treated like animals, all emotions were stifled and we, little children became less than human, animal like.
All personal initiative was destroyed, all orders must be obeyed, and further institutionalising was likely, with departing inmates ending up in institutions like prisons or psychiatric care, or confined in mental hospitals and the like.
Today, and quite absurdly, I am invited by the Great and Good to ‘give thanks’ for what the Christian Brothers did to me, and others like me. Criminal abuse, systemic and endemic attacks on our human dignity, grave humiliation, in fact, ‘crimes against humanity’, have never deserved thanks.
The world learnt of the evil that spread across Europe when it was told about places like Auschwitz, Dachau, Belsen, Flossembúrg, Treblinka, and Warsaw. The Irish people learnt about the evil that was endemic in Christian Brothers Schools like, Artane, Salthill, Greenmount, Glin, Letterfrack, Carriglea, and Cabra, and of the 170,000 children who suffered abominable cruelty in these Gulags. The words Greenmount and Artane sends shivers up my spine, just as much as Belsen and Dachau does for the survivors of the concentration camps.
What is important for you and the direct perpetrators is to acknowledge your complete guilt. A true confession – a firm purpose of atonement, along with genuine expressions of deep regret and sorrow, whilst begging on your bended knees for our forgiveness.
The latter may not be forthcoming, but that is our problem. Too much suffering over many years has hardened our hearts but the absolute scope and scale of this genocide has yet to penetrate the mindset of Irish society.
And attitudes are changing.
The least we expect is to be allowed articulate how we have been harmed, and any interventions must be targeted to put right the wrongs done to us, and to do no more harm and stop telling us we are imagining things, or that atonement and proper reparation are impossible.
Our history books will contain a fair account of what happened to us – The Ryan report hopefully will see to that. Revisionism is alive and well in Ireland today. Airbrushing must be avoided at all costs; lets have the true story, warts and all.
Let us hope and pray that you, the followers and supporters of Edmund Rice will stop seeking to deny justice and fair play for us victims. I say that closure for the Christian Brothers will not come to them until they err on the side of generosity in their dealings with us. They should stop hiding behind smokescreens and Government policies. Then and perhaps only then may we celebrate future centenaries together?
Finally: –
Note that a request for a “ National…Annual…Day of Atonement “ was based on the fundamental premise that:-
We seek the “ Satisfaction View of Atonement “.
The choice of the word “Satisfaction “ does not mean gratification as in common usage, but rather “ to make restitution “: mending what has been broken…. paying back what was taken.
It is thus connected with the legal concept of balancing out a terrible injustice done to us.
Thank you.
Christopher Heaphy.
Chairman V.O.T.E.S. (Voices of the Existing Survivors)
Subject: Fwd: Christian Brothers celebratory event 20 OCT 2012
COPY to Newstalk Radio in Dublin
P R E S S R E L E A S E
From: Irish Survivors of Child Abuse (Irish-SOCA)
For: Release on Friday 19th October at 3 pm.
Re: Christian Brothers Celebratory event in Dublin 20 OCT 2012
The victims of Christian Brother childhood abuse are appalled at the grotesque celebratory event designed to rehabilitate that organisation on Saturday 20th October 2012.
Whilst there are many in this society who did benefit from “the gift of education” through the Christian Brothers and are entitled to yahoo their excellent good fortune – that was not the case for tens of thousands of Irish children locked up from 1922 onwards in Industrial Schools. For these children there was a vigorous policy of educational denial which replicated the notorious apartheid era Bantu Education Act – in an Ireland that purported to “Cherish all the children of the Nation equally”
Because of this criminal policy, supported throughout by a cowardly political elite, the lives of those who suffered years of sexual and other abuses were made substantially more difficult than they might have been.
The friends and supporters of the Christian Brothers say, “ ah, but be reasonable, look at all the good work they are doing down in Africa, that must surely count for something” to which we say that 10 pounds of alleged do-Gooding in Africa doesn’t expunge 5 pounds of evil doings in Ireland – that is not the way of the World.
We are appalled at the behaviour of the management committee of the current Artane Band and its use of the young people in the Band at next Saturday’s event given that the Artane Band owes its historical existence to those who were economically exploited and abused by the Christian Brothers in Dublin 5 over many decades. For these reasons this is a particularly insensitive engagement to have accepted.
We are also shocked at the about-face of former State President Mary McAleese who, in June 2009 following the Ryan Report, rightly condemned the abusers at a gathering of Survivors at Áras an Uachtaráin (Official Residence of the President) but now appears happy to frolic to her heart’s content with the Christian Brothers and their supporters at Saturday’s bizarre event. There is a bewildering inconsistency to this approach unless you view the abusers as morally equivalent to those who suffered years of abuse in which case an explanation is urgently needed.
END
Signed.
John Kelly – coordinator of Irish Survivors of Child Abuse
Dublin – Tel 01 453 0404 / or (Mob) 087247 55918
irishsoca@eircom.net
Abuse victims accuse Christian Brothers event of trying to muzzle them
back home
By Claire O’Sullivan
Saturday, October 20, 2012
Survivors of abuse at Christian Brother schools have accused organisers of a Christian Brothers commemoration event this weekend of attempting to muzzle them by not allowing them to speak.
Former President Mary McAleese and Sen Martin McAleese are set to join past pupils of Christian Brothers schools at an event at Dublin’s Convention Centre today to commemorate the anniversary of the birth of Edmund Rice, founder of the Christian Brothers and Presentation Brothers.
Survivors of child abuse at Christian Brother schools were invited.
Tonight’s event is part of a year-long initiative to raise funds for international work being carried out in the spirit of Edmund Rice.
Keynote speakers on the night will be Mrs McAleese, president of St Patrick’s College and John Hope prize-winning academic Dr Dáire Keogh, and social affairs activist and author Fr Peter McVerry.
Despite requests, Christopher Heaphy, the chairman of Voices of The Existing Survivors, will not be permitted to speak at the event.
“Unless Irish society is prepared to listen to us there never will be closure,” said Mr Heaphy.
“We can be preached to from the pulpits and talked down to by the ‘great and good’ but we need to be invited to speak for ourselves.”
“After over 50 years of silence we are quite capable of speaking about our own personal experiences. A ‘wall of silence’ built by Church and religious to hide behind, will founder. Maybe then God’s light and love will find a place in their hearts and we will be listened to.
“Our only sin was pov-erty, needing alleviation not exploitation. But exploitation is what we got in the schools delivered under a tsunami of brutality designed to dehumanise and traumatise, and which shell-shocked us into a condition where many were incapable of developing into loving, talented, and caring people we were meant to be”.
Mr Heaphy and his two brothers were kept at Greenmount Industrial School in Cork, which was run by the Presentation Brothers.
Eight chapters of the Ryan Report are devoted to the Christian Brothers as it was the largest provider of residential care for boys in the State. The order was found guilty of “excessive and pervasive” physical punishment of boys and at Artane in Dublin, there was a “chronic” problem of sexual abuse.
The new statutory fund is still in the process of being set up – there was an advertisement on publicjobs.ie for anyone who may be interested in applying as a board member – the cut-off date was 5th Oct. The temporary board set up in the meantime is still in place – so it depends on how long it takes for the new board and other issues to be sorted before the new fund is available.
Past Pupils Reunion.
Sir, – Senator Martin McAleese says of the Christian Brothers Past Pupils reunion that “it would not happen without the abused” (Home News, October 9th). This may be so. Those of us who spent all of our earlier lives with the Christian Brothers do not see this gathering in the same way as Senator McAleese and others mentioned in the article.
The Christian Brothers have still not accepted their part in the very serious abuses and failures perpetrated on weak and very vulnerable children, many who were orphans and so suffered mostly in these industrial schools.
They commissioned reports into these schools without engaging those of us who were there. They have whitewashed us out of their histories and turned their faces to the “new worlds” of Eastern Europe, India and elsewhere.
The continuing abuses of former pupils in the Residential Institutions Redress Board and the courts is disgraceful and, encouraged by the structures that allow secrecy and pseudonyms to be used, silences, deflects and hides the truth and the meaning of the truth from full exposure.
We wish Senator McAleese and others every success at their gathering.
Sadly, the majority of us who went through the industrial schools still suffer its effects. We are all getting old now, many living in England in L-shaped rooms for over 40 years while some in Canada and the US are suffering ill health and are unable to pay for medical insurance.
We see no reason to celebrate until the Christian Brothers meet and engage fully with those of us in support of these sad but proud individuals. – Yours, etc,
TOM HAYES,
Castle Gardens,
Richhill,
Co Armagh.
Once again, we are being Misrepresented.
The Chairman of Right of Place Second Chance, Michael Walsh Senior, wrote a letter to the Examiner on Monday the 8th of October.
As the Chairman of a group, who’s headquarters is based in Cork, it is obvious that this person is NOT speaking for his (So Called) members.
Hi trivialise’s the row between government, and the Religious Orders over what should have been our Redress Money, from the Religious Orders.
The Statutory Trust Fund (he cant even get this right) of €110million may be a small part in HIS eyes, but it will come to the aid of Survivors Substantially.
His comment of their being no further Monetary Redress for people who were abused in Institutional Care shows a distintive lack of compassion, and care unbefitting a Chairman of a board. Has he forgotten about the poor Ladies of the Magdeline Laundries, and the Survivors who still await Proper Redress.
The frustration he quotes in his letter, might be due to the cut in funding for his group? Obviously there will be NO increase in wages linked to inflation for Junior this year.
The misleading impression that frontline work is being done on behalf of a large number of Survivors is both dishonest, and untrue, and is the main reason why ALL groups should be shut down.
The only thing that is lost in this letter to the Examiner is Honesty and Integrity.
Survivors will continue to suffer all the time we are being misrepresented.
His cries to the Religious Orders to pay up, is twelve years too late.
His concept of good guy/bad guy is nothing more than trying to shift blame away from his own misrepresentation.
Meaningful Dialogue from Mr Walsh, in finding solutions to Survivor problems only extends into the domain of keeping his Son gainfully employed in the Private Company, Right of Place Second Chance.
WELL DONE MOSSIE
WHAT A CHEEK THAT GROUP HAVE TRYING TO LOOK AS IF THEY ARE WORRIED ABOUT SURVIVERS AND THERE NEEDS.
ALL THEY WANT IS MORE MONEY AND KEEP THEMSELVES ON THE GRAVY TRAIN,I WOULD LOVE IF THE MONEY WAS STOPPED ONCE AND FOR ALL AND THIS SHOWER OF BLOODSUCKERS SHOULD BE DISBANDED AND MADE ACCOUNTABLE FOR EVERY EURO THEY SWINDLED SURVIVORS OUT OF.
MAY JUSTICE PREVAIL
BILLY COLLINS.
This statutary fund is very unclear as to who exactly benefits from it. Michael says that thay care for people who have been sidelined by all government dept. okey fine but if thay come from the institutions thier names and data are stored somewhere.As for confidentiality well if thay put survivers in contact with services thay give the name and data so its one sided ever since i bought a computer i have been reading that the funding is used exactly as thay want with apparantly no control as to who benefits.if thay dont regonise someone in the street then its not supportive at all.if thay give someone the time of the day thats help to them .
Row demeaning to those who suffered abuse in institutions
Who does Michael Walsh think he’s talking for?
This person and his group, ROP/SC initially voted for this Statutory Fund, when over 90per cent of Survivors were totally against it.
It is none of your business Mr Walsh. You were never worried about Survivors before, so why should you be any other way now. Your funding is all you are worried about, and we ALL know this.
Please read following article, todays Examiner.
Monday, October 08, 2012
Let me begin by congratulating Conor Ryan for his excellent piece (Oct 1) on highlighting the difficulties between the Government and the religious orders over the payment of a 50/50 share of redress to people abused in industrial institutions.
However, there are some very important points to be made, and these highlight some misconceptions around this unseemly row.
* There is no further monetary redress for people who were abused in institutional care.
* This row is about the Government and the religious orders sharing the cost of redress, which has already been paid out!
* A very small part of this row concerns the additional Statutory Institutions Fund (€110m).
It frustrates me a great deal at the rumbling on of this row, because it is demeaning to those of us who were so horrendously abused in these institutions.
In our frontline work on behalf of over five and a half thousand people who made contact with our offices last year, and who now live in considerable difficulty, (as adults,) the reality of that abuse, and its consequences on families, is lost in this continuing row over who should pay what.
The people who seek our help are sidelined, and left to suffer in abject poverty, social isolation, and are marginalised by all of the States agencies dealing in housing, health, welfare and statutory care.
We say to the religious orders — for God’s sake, pay up.
And, to Minister Quinn, we say — stop trying to shift the problem of years of State and religious abuse to one of good guy/bad guy.
Engage in a meaningful dialogue at managing and finding solutions to the many difficulties now being experienced by those of us whose lives as children, and now as adults, have been blighted by the acts of abuse.
Michael Walsh
Chairman Right of Place Second Chance
Lower Glanmire Road
Cork
Counting the cost of abuse redress
By Conor Ryan, Investigative reporter
Monday, October 01, 2012
THE State’s exposure to the child abuse redress bill is growing but efforts to coax religious orders to accept half the costs have failed.
One by one, the 18 congregations have told the Government its desire to split the bill on a 50:50 basis was too much; they would not allow the redress process to bankrupt them.
Negotiations are ongoing on an alternative plan, to sign over school sites, but there has been no resolution and the process has staggered.
The immediate effect is that the State will now have to find at least €1.1bn to fund its portion of a compensation and inquiry scheme that was expected to cost €240m when the indemnity deal was signed in 2002.
Departmental memos show that the overall redress bill is expected to reach €1.47bn — this rose €100m in the last year. It is not known if it will be the final figure.
The Government has resolved, in an explicit resolution, to ensure the 18 orders under the indemnity deal cover half of the amount.
The resolution, voted on in Jun 2011, rejected some of the gestures tabled by orders and asked for school sites to be made available.
Following the publication of the Ryan Report in 2009 the orders, according to their own valuations, committed to give €476m in money and property to the State. This included the assets that were slowly transferred under the 2002 deal.
Crucially, €235m of this increased offer was made up of land and buildings, mostly schools and health facilities. When the department assessed them, they were found to be worth €60m.
This has left a €434m gap between the value of what has been offered (€301m) and what the department wants (€735m).
There is an associated package under discussion with the Christian Brothers to put its playing pitches, worth €127m, into a joint entity of the State and its trust.
In 2010, the orders were written to asking for more but the responses back, according to departmental memos, have used various forms of language to arrive at the word “no”.
Since assuming responsibility for the education portfolio in Mar 2011, Ruairi Quinn has met with the orders on numerous occasions.
So far, only the Presentation Brothers has made a tangible promise to add €1m to the sum it offered and separately an additional site — a former primary school — was added to the property schedule.
The papers relating to Mr Quinn’s, and his department’s, engagement were released under the Freedom of Information Act.
They reveal that, at different times, there were polite requests to “explore with the congregations” the possibility of transferring school sites. At other stages, there were efforts to entice them by confirming they will be publicly recognised for their support. More recently, Mr Quinn expressed his frustration at the progress.
At all times, he has noted, and the orders have reminded him, that they are under no legal obligation to up their commitments because they are insulated by the €128m cap built into the 2002 indemnity deal. But even under this deal, the intended contribution has yet to be realised.
So far, €105m worth of assets have been received of the €128m that was promised 10 years ago.
The sites are clearly identifiable but, as with many religious properties, it has proved extraordinarily difficult to secure legal title and finalise a transfer.
The problem is so great the department has been reluctant to accept properties where the orders could sell the sites themselves.
It particular, the Government refused an offer by the Sisters of Mercy to donate properties directly to the Statutory Fund. The order was told to sell the land and sign the cash back to the fund.
The lack of cash for the fund is another problem that emerged before its establishment by the Dáil before the summer recess.
In 2009, the orders offered an extra €91m in cash to the Statutory Fund. At least €24m is still dependant on the congregations selling property, which is estimated to take at least 10 years.
The Sisters of Charity, which has ambitions to commercially develop a number of strategic sites in Dublin City, told Mr Quinn it cannot meet the additional promise made in 2009. It said €3m outstanding will not be paid but it has offered to waive its claim to legal expenses.
The stalemate between the religious bodies and the State has undermined the potential of the Fund for victims.
The strategy in the Programme for Government, to secure the transfer of school sites in lieu of money, has been met with a cold response.
The correspondence and briefing notes to Mr Quinn show that the majority of the orders have declared themselves either unable or unwilling to give any more. Some, in particular the Rosminians, claim they are in financial distress irrespective of any additional bills for redress.
The Christian Brothers said while it has financial assets of about €50m, it will not be able to release €20m of its extra commitment for up to 15 years because of the downturn in the property market. Three sites it put on the market last year could not find a buyer.
The Christian Brothers said it would bankrupt the order to act quicker and it was expecting bills to come from legal cases relating to its management of day schools.
The Sisters of Mercy said it would engage with the department on the possible transfer of schools but it did not want this to have anything to do with the redress process.
It said that to accept the 50:50 approach would effectively tarnish all its members as having been guilty of abuse. This same point was raised by the Sisters of Charity.
In the 12 years since the indemnity deal, the orders sold at least €468m worth of property. They retained assets worth over €3bn.
But three years since the publication of the Ryan Report, the State is still holding out the collection plate, hoping to limit its exposure to the swelling cost of redress.
ORDER’S RESPONSES
Orders’ responses
The responses of a selection of religious orders to the Government’s request for them to contribute 50% towards the cost of redress and the message they delivered to Education Minister Ruairi Quinn at meetings:
* The Presentation Brothers The only body to respond positively to the Government’s request, it put an additional €1m on the table to help fund the building of the new children’s hospital. It said it wanted to advance the process and was happy to cooperate with negotiations.
* The Dominicans
The order said it would not volunteer additional resources but it would cover 50% of its legal costs arising from the redress process. It was one of six orders to deliver its additional cash offer in full.
* The Oblates
Having made a substantial cash offer following the publication of the Ryan Report, it said it was not in a position to do more. But it said it would waive its claim to legal bills and said its overall contribution was fair and reasonable. It also queried whether redress could be expanded to cover all former students.
* Sisters of St Clare
The order said while it was shocked at the Ryan Report findings, the 18 congregations under the indemnity deal only managed about 100 of the 139 institutions investigated and other management bodies should contribute. It said its members were taxpayers and paid PAYE and Vat on building projects. It delivered its additional cash offer in full and said it could give a school site in Ballyjamesduff, worth €275,000, to the VEC, but a 50:50 split was a bridge too far.
* De la Salle
It said it had a mission to carry out and if it was prevented from doing so, it would have no reason to exist. It has offered €1m but this is subject to the terms of the statutory fund being acceptable to the order and trust law.
* Brothers of Charity
The order said it was trying to deliver services to people despite cutbacks in the health budget but those services were suffering.
* Presentation Sisters
It asked why the Government wanted orders to sign over school sites if they could not be sold for cash. They said its property was key to its mission and suggested Mr Quinn was trying to take ownership of schools from congregations. It was worried the Government was implying if the orders did not increase their offers, the education budget would be cut.
* Sisters of Nazareth
It said it was happy to meet with Mr Quinn and offered €2m in a rent waiver to the HSE for the use of its nursing home in Sligo. The offer was refused.
* Daughters of Charity
It looked for the issue of proportionality between the various orders to be addressed, but said its assets were being used to serve clients with intellectual disabilities and it could not offer more. In lieu of cash, it said it would give land beside Phoenix Park to the OPW. This was declined by the Cabinet.
* Good Shepherd Sisters
The order said it had given a full report on its assets and had no more funds with which to offer.
* Hospitaller Order of St John of God
The order paid the money it committed in 2010. It told Mr Quinn it was not mentioned specifically in the Ryan Report and all of its assets were used to support services it offered. It said any attempt to find a 50:50 split “required creativity”.
Sisters of charity
Offer from 2009: It offered to give €5m but recently told the Government it cannot afford to sign over the last €3m.
Position on meeting the 50:50 target: It cannot meet its commitment.
Explanation:
When it met Education Minister Ruairi Quinn in Jul 2011 it expressed concern congregations were being portrayed as being 100% responsible for the abuse.
It had offered to give an extra €5m towards the Statutory Fund but was concerned that the costs of redress appeared to be rising. Since then, the order has won a High Court challenge to the Dublin City Development plan that would have killed off plans to redevelop some strategic sites at Sandymount, Walkinstown and Harold’s Cross.
It wrote to the Department in June and said the €5m it offered initially was beyond its means and would be reduced to €2m.
It was the first order to reduce its offer and blamed the decision on the property market collapse. “The Sisters paid €1m to the Government in 2010, expecting the trust fund to be set up immediately. They have the second payment of €1m ready to pay since 2011 but they cannot release it until the Government puts the trust fund… in place.
“Since the value of their properties has depreciated hugely and the ability to sell property is still severely affected by market conditions — so the nature of their offer has changed,” said a statement in June.
Christian Brothers
* Offer from 2009: €30m plus the transfer of €127m worth of playing pitches to a joint trust.
* Position on meeting the 50:50 target: It has told the department it will not be able to increase its offer.
* Explanation:
The Christian Brothers rejected Education Minister Ruairi Quinn’s request to give more sooner. It claimed if it acted as he desired the order would be bankrupt.
Instead it said the property market had handicapped its effort to sweat its assets and find the money it needed to contribute to the Statutory Fund in the short term.
The order said it has already given substantially to the cost of redress and had to keep money aside because it predicts significant claims to arise from its role in the management of day schools. These were not covered under redress.
The first installment of its cash offer, worth €10m, is to be paid in a staggered fashion over the first five years of the Statutory Fund.
The order had offered an additional €20m in cash. But it has informed the department this will not be handed over quickly as it depends on property sales.
Three sites it put on the market in 2011, which were expected to raise €3m, could not be sold.
A sum of €4m towards counselling services was included with its offer, but the department discounted this when it realised the money would be paid to Faoiseamh and not to the Statutory Fund.
The Christian Brothers had already transferred its schools infrastructure to a linked trust, the Edmund Rice Schools Trust, prior to the publication of the Ryan Report.
It said these were worth €480m and this should be included in the calculation of its contribution.
The department indicated, in meetings with the order, that it believed it could do more and sign over money sooner. It said Christian Brothers had financial assets of €63m. The order said by the end of 2011 this had fallen to €50m.
“The minister noted that €50m was still a significant sum and suggested an early payment of a cash contribution. Br [Edmund] Garvey responded by stating that such an early payment could bankrupt the congregation,” the record of the meeting said.
Mr Quinn told the order he did not want to put it out of business, but asked for a gesture.
The order said the “congregation is now at the pin of its collar to meet even the current requirements of its charitable and other commitments”.
The Rosminians
* Offer from 2009: It was not able to make any offer due its financial circumstances.
* Position on meeting the 50:50 target: It cannot give any more.
* Explanation:
The order has told the department it is badly in debt after its attempt to commercially develop a Drumcondra site and build a school for the blind with the proceeds.
Before the publication of the Ryan Report, it submitted plans to build 359 houses on its campus in Drumcondra. But this has not progressed.
Instead, it told Department of Education officials at a meeting in February it had substantial debts.
It owed €5m relating to the redevelopment of the St Joseph’s complex in Drumcondra. It said the State should be liable for some of this because it was party to the preparations for the new school.
A property in Gracepark Gardens was sold for €630,000 and the proceeds are being used to pay down the interest.
Its provincial, Fr David Myers, said it had offered land which had been collateral for the loan back to the bank to cancel the debt but this was refused.
Preparing the planning application cost it €1.5m and €1.5m was spent building alternative accommodation for priests in anticipation of the redevelopment.
The Department asked it to consider signing over some playing fields beside its former residential home at Upton, Cork.
Sisters of Our Lady of charity
* Offer from 2009: €1.5m plus one creche
* Position on meeting the 50:50 target: It said it is unable to offer more.
* Explanation:
When the Ryan Report was published in 2009, the order offered an extra €1.5m towards the cost of redress. It also said it would sign over its childcare facility at Gracepark to the HSE.
However, when the Government set its 50:50 target and asked orders for more, the answer from the order was straightforward.
A quote from correspondence said “it was unable to make any further cash contribution”.
According to its valuations, the Sisters of Our Lady of Charity had property assets worth €17.1m.
It enjoyed a significant windfall during the boom, when it sold land beside its former Magdalene Laundry in Drumcondra for €62m in two tranches.
But when it met Mr Quinn and department officials on Dec 16, 2011, the order said it was caring for 29 sisters and 38 former residents, and groups were ageing. Financial advisor John Kidney said it had shelved plans to sell more property because of the state of the market.
Mr Quinn said he appreciated the complexity of its position but wanted a beefed-up offer. In the minutes, regional leader Sr Sheila Murphy put it on record that “the congregation had no liability to additional contributions as there was no agreement in place regarding the matter”.
Sisters of Mercy
* Offer from 2009: €107m in property to the State and voluntary sector and €20m in cash to be paid in installments over five years.
* Position on meeting the 50:50 target: It was a flawed idea and unacceptable to the order.
* Explanation:
The Sisters of Mercy told Education Minister Ruairi Quinn if it accepted the principal that orders should cover half the cost of redress, it would effectively be declaring all of its members were guilty of abuse. It said the concept of a 50:50 share of the €1.47bn bill was flawed.
Congregation leader Sister Coirle McCarthy said the order had begun to deal with abuse victims in 1995 and co-operated fully with the 2002 deal. But the increase in the bill was the State’s problem.
The order said its contribution to the State, through the provision of service, could be worth as much as €1bn. “[Sr McCarthy] noted that he 2002 indemnity agreement was to a voluntary contribution to the State and that the congregation had met its obligations under that agreement. The congregation did not believe it owed 50%: if that position was to be agreed to it would amount to saying that all of the congregations members were guilty of abuse,” the records said.
The order also said its additional offer from 2009 was “just, generous, and adequate”.
Problems have surfaced regarding the properties it offered to the State. The Cabinet voted to reject its proposal to donate 16 properties directly to the statutory fund as it would only accept cash.
The order said it would sell two sites but there has been no resolution to the remaining 14. The order also wanted 16 plots it committed to the voluntary sector to count towards its contribution. But the Cabinet said no. Only one €200,000 building, available for Comhaltas Ceoltóirí Éireann in Tulla, Co Clare, was considered reckonable after it got the support of the Department of the Arts.
The order met with Mr Quinn separately at its own request. He paid particular attention to the decision of the Government to ask all the orders to shelve plans to transfer education infrastructure into dedicated trusts. However, the order said many of its schools were being transferred to local patrons and its second level sites were placed in the Ceist/Educena trust.
While it was willing to discuss the schools issue, it wanted this done separately to redress negotiations.
Daughters of the heart of Mary
* Offer from 2009: €1.5m in cash.
* Position on meeting the 50:50 target: It would not enhance its offer.
* Explanation:
The congregation met with the Department in Dec 2011 and stood firm.
It said it would not give any more towards the cost of redress.
The order told Education Minister Ruairi Quinn it had “serious reservations” about the principal of a 50:50 burden sharebetween the State and religious orders. It said it paid its legal costs during the redress process.
The order said it wasnot referred to specifically in the Ryan Report and the amount it contributed was more than it would have expected to pay out in court awards if the indemnity deal had not been agreed.
It told officials its members had made a significant contribution to the care of children and this was not paid for.
Its delegation said it was not under any obligation to provide funding towards the new national children’s hospital.
Mr Quinn asked the order to reassess its position and warned it that failure to do so may attract negative publicity.
“[The minister said] any cash contribution or any property transfer by the congregation would be publicly acknowledged.
“By the same token the refusal of the congregation to enhance its contribution would have to be noted in a report to Government,” the minutes said.
Julie, i wish i could tell you that. Maybe the groups could shed some light on this subject. After all, they seem to know everything.
You may be assured they do know, but will keep this to themselves, as usual.
When can we submit claims for this fund? There seems to be a lot of talk about it but not a start Date.
Parents get vote to take schools out of control of the Church
PARENTS will start voting within weeks on whether they want to hand over a Catholic primary school in their area to another patron body.
In a ground-breaking move, the Department of Education will seek the views of parents in five areas on the demand for a change in patronage, and their preference for who should run the schools.
The Irish Independent has learned that three of the five areas to be surveyed are Trim, Co Meath; Tramore, Co Waterford; and Arklow, Co Wicklow.
The fourth and fifth will be in Dublin and Co Mayo, although final decisions have yet to be made on the particular areas.
Change
The surveys of five areas is the first step in the process and will be followed in November with similar plebiscites in 39 other towns or suburbs identified as potentially ripe for change.
The historic move is aimed at reducing the control of the Catholic Church in primary education and offering parents greater choice to reflect the cultural and religious mix in Irish society generally.
The Catholic Church currently runs 92pc of primary schools and has accepted that it is no longer tenable for it to operate so many schools. Apart from societal changes, there are fewer priests to help with the running of schools.
The areas selected for surveys are where primary schools are exclusively of a Catholic ethos, or where there is very limited choice, with, perhaps, one non-Catholic school among six or more.
Each of the 44 areas has been selected because each has a relatively stable population and so the need for diversity cannot be addressed by opening new schools.
In June, the Department of Education invited patron bodies interested in taking over the running of schools in the 44 areas to lodge expressions of interest.
The survey will be online, or paper-based, and open to parents of a pre-school or school-going child, resident in the area concerned. The form, which will be returned to the department, will include a link to the website of each prospective patron body where parents can get more information about the type of school proposed.
Patron bodies are expected to actively campaign for support for their proposals, but will be subject to a code of practice.
Following the completion of the surveys, there will be consultations with communities in line with parental preferences, on the final shape of the primary school network in the area. It is impossible to estimate how many of the 3,000 Catholic primary schools will ever be handed over to another patron body, and at what pace.
However, based on the survey process about to get under way, Education Minister Ruairi Quinn has set next June as the deadline for the naming of the first batch.
– Katherine Donnelly
Irish Independent
Reply to Micheal on Article published on his Website, Re; Reduced Staffing Hours.
What you meant to say Micheal is, the Survival of the Company is so important to the Directors, because without it you would all be redundant. Now that is well worth thinking about Micheal.
Because as you and i already know, none of you in there is doing anything for Survivors, only for yourselves, and thats the way it has always been.
You were all warned on taking over, but you refused to listen, perhaps now you will realise the mess you are now in?
Noel Barry, whether you know it or not is still President of that Company (Right of Place) You got BAD advice, whoever gave it to you.
Personally i hope to see you closed down completely, and the lot of you disbanded to the four corners of the earth, and let Survivors look after themselves, which of course they have always done anyway, no thanks to you.
You were NEVER elected Democratically, as you so put it, and well you know it, but must have convinced yourselves otherwise. You know it, and so do I.
So the sooner we all see the end of your corrupt empire Micheal, the better.
We Did elect a good honest team, but your Father opted to ignore proper good advice, i wonder why? But of course i can well imagine WHY.
Your Father should have listened to the Democratically elected Treasurer, Mr Tom Brennan, now that man (WOULD) have put that place in good governance if your Father had not worked against him, but seemingly that was NOT part of his agenda.
Your reign in there Micheal WILL come to an end, and i await that day, sooner rather than later i hope.
Please feel free to publish this, it will be a first for you.
Micheal,
Your choice not to continue communicating with me is simply because i am asking all the relevant questions, questions which i know you feel uneasy answering for a very clear reason, and i am sure everyone else does also.
I think you forgot (intentionally) to mention to your Audience of the big blunder your group made the day you went to visit the president, or must i remind you of it? You most likely wont highlight this incident, as it would show you all in there where your real loyalties lie.
Again you speak of Survivors talking about the work being done. Where are all these reports? There are none, only you and your group praising yourselves (As Usual) for something that has NOT happened.
I have received answers from you Micheal in the way you wish to answer them and no more, in other words, you are NOT painting the real picture. You are telling people what you want them to believe, and NOT what is really happening.
Survivors Micheal as you say in your last post were NOT listened to. This is correct, but then Survivors never will be listened to as long as people like you and the disgraced group that you represent, continue to extract funding in Survivors names from the sources you receive the funding from. Survivors do not, and never will get anywhere with groups using funding for their expenses.
Your special questions and answers session Micheal. I can find No where on your website. Where are these questions that have been asked? It states, questions have been asked over the last number of weeks, but when i looked for these so called questions, i could NOT find them, leading me to believe that you, yourself make all this up as you go along? Correct me if i am wrong on this, and please point me to to your questions and answers page.
Your interests are NOT with Survivors, and i do not believe for one moment you are all doing this out of the goodness of your hearts. No one does anything for nothing, and you would be very foolish to think any Survivor would actually believe this. There must be something in it for you, and obviously there is.
Have you ever asked yourself Micheal why, as you stated, there is Bitterness, and Mistrust among Survivors? Have you ever really asked yourself this question? You obviously read all the sites, so you DO know of the mistrust Survivors have regarding your group, and other groups who chase funding in their names, and receive nothing, only groups who praise themselves on their own web page for the great work they do.
You made a very feeble attempt Micheal in justifying the mileage expenses for mileage. Mileage is only one aspect of expenses, there are many more perks im sure in this job of your’s. I doubt it very much if you have given me the correct rate, however i will check it. We are NOT getting a true picture here.
Why in your report you published on your site after Christmas are all the expenses you all claim not itemised? It is very easy to submit an overall figure for this and that, therefore covering up, and disguising expendeture which ought to be Highlighted, and individually pointed out, so people can understand what is really happening, and how the funding is really being spent. This Micheal is what we call being (Transparent.) Something you are always talking about.
I am not talking about TD’s or what they get for whatever they do Micheal, i am talking about (Right of Place Second Chance) and what they do, no one else. So dont be trying to shift the conversation yet again, to deviate from the point i am trying to make.
Here you go again shifting the conversation to Focus Ireland, Respond, St vincent de Paul etc. For your information Micheal, i am Always asking these groups and politicians these questions, but just like you Micheal and your group all we ever get is Silence. So no Micheal, it is NOT as you put it a Witch Hunt, as you are well aware.
See at the end of the day Micheal, i trust (NO ONE) least of all (Right of Place Second Chance) I guess we inherited this from these schools where we we incarcerated never to trust anyone. Who can blame any of us for that. Are we wrong to be this way?
A lot of Survivors would be fed up with all this carry on, regarding groups etc, and therefore distance themselves from all of this, and who can blame them. However I personally will not. I will continue to question all groups if i see they are not doing what they say they are doing, and i will always question their motives. I am NOT one who will believe someone i do NOT trust.
Tom’s explanation why questions are not being properly answered.
From the time of my resignation from the so-called new Directors of Right of Place I have rarely spoken out on any matter relating to this organisation because no matter what is said they are impervious to criticism.
They have for reasons widely known and understood convinced themselves that they are doing a great job on behalf of survivors, whilst this is not so, and is in stark contrast to the calls I receive and the expressed opinion of Survivors I meet, who clearly understand that nothing has really changed from Mr, Barry’s time, but the names of the people now fronting the Organisation, in fact many express the opinion that things were less worse under Barry ” and admit that this is indeed a strange thing to say”.
I am very much of the opinion that this Organisation will never be brought before the Public Accounts Committee because people within and without the H.S.C would also have to be called to account for lack of good governance in the Millions given to R.O.P.
An Garda Siochana commenced an investigation under instruction form Minister Shatter, but has run into the sand because the H.S.E.
This organisation R.O.P alleges legitimacy from Survivors, yet individual Survivors as a collective, have no say in this organisation, they have no legal rights what-so-ever, because they do not hold any share/shares (parts into which a company’s capital stock is divided) the shares are held by the Directors “or those for whom they are fronting for”.
This is the great weakness on the side of Survivors and I pointed it out at the very first New Directors meeting, I recommended that every alleged member should be allowed to purchase one share for €1, and with it would go a single vote entitlement.
This was rejected!!!!!!.
As you can see I used the term (alleged membership,) this is because over a three month period having made many request’s to see the list I never received it, I also pointed out at the time that a share sale would identify and under-pin the true membership number in the Organisation, instead of a cold-call type mailing list.
Regards
Tom.
Micheal,
I see you have decided NOT to reply to my last posting to you. Really this is what I had expected as I asked you a question I knew you would NOT be prepared to answer re, what expenses you are all claiming for the so called services you say you provide.
Do you have a problem in supplying Survivors with a break down of the expenses you claim from day to day? You continue to state that you are Volunteers, and as so you do not get paid. Well we are All well aware Micheal that you are well paid, for whatever it is you do.
Would I be correct in saying that you, along with the rest of the group in (Right of Place Second Chance) would also be claiming a very handsome expense payment for travel etc? Would you care to let us all know just how much in expenses you all get, along with your very hefty wage? We ARE entitled to know.
You did say you would answer any questions we had, so here I am yet again asking these questions all of you seem to have a problem in answering.
Why did you not respond to my request Micheal? It is a very very valid point, which I think I am entitled to a response to. It is as I have previously stated, it is Taxpayers Money, in which I too contribute to.
I have also noted Micheal, on your website entitled (Lives helped) All of your subscribers just so happen to be all from Waterford, how come? Looks a bit weird to me, sure they could be anyone for all we know.
I won’t say any more for now Micheal, however I would expect you will have the decency to answer my query truthfully regarding expenses. I am sure that the expenses being paid to you and your group would amount to a substantial chunk of your annual budget. This will go a long way towards being (Open and Transparent) something you speak about, every time to write your responses. We await in anticipation on your reply.
Micheal.
In response to your last.
You seem to misunderstand me, i am NOT praising the work you say you have done. What im saying is you talk about the greatness of the work that you do. I am not praising you for anything, simply because i do NOT see anything positive you have done to date.
Yes your Website is full of articles like meeting the President, (Big Deal ) whats so great about that. This is as you well know Propoganda, or a Publicity Stunt, nothing more, again this is my opinion.
There is Nothing on your site to actually show people what you have actually done. Nothing, apart from a few items like (Info regarding Trust Fund) (Minutes of meeting) (Cardinal Brady) (Waterford Radio Interview) and more useless information, which anybody can get from their local Media.
There is absolutely NOTHING about what concrete work you have done foe ANY Survivor on your Website, so how can you tell everyone what a great job you are doing, as i cannot see what exactly you are doing?
You stated clearly when you started, that it was your intention to interact with Survivors through your Website. Now you want to open offices all over the country, for what?
Surely this is only going to be more, and more expense your group can do without? You are always talking about your funding getting smaller and smaller, but this does not seem to be having any effect, as you keep opening more offices. This does NOT make sense. I’m sure any logical person could see that?
As far as Volunteers are concerned, who is going to train them? How long will it take for them to be trained? What kind of work do you envisage they will be able to carry out?
I find it hard to swallow Micheal, when you say, you were asked on to the Radio after just so happening to meet up with a radio host. This MUST have been previously arranged? I personally find this unbelievable.
You still Micheal, have NOT explained what your group in (Right of Place Second Chance) have done for Anybody, though i have asked you this question on numerous occasions. You always seem to avoid answering the question. You say you put all of this information on your Website, personally i do NOT see where it is.
You have said, you are there as an advisory service, and fill out forms and what not, but how does this type of service need so much heavy funding as you receive each year? Surely to god it cannot eat up the vast amounts of Taxpayers hard earned money you receive every year to help with simple issues such as form filling etc?
I have asked before Micheal on several occasions, and i will ask you again, you never ever mentioned the expenses your group receive from day to day, why is this? I am sure a lot of Survivors would love to hear of your expenses, and the expenses your group claim monthly for doing whatever they do. Yes they all WILL say that they work Volentarily, but they have NEVER said to anybody of their expenses which we all know sometimes may well exceed Any wage they may get if they were not working Volentarily. Could you shed some light on this point please?
Micheal, if i had no intention of gaining answers from you, i would NOT be asking them. But as of yet, i have NOT received any positive responses to my questions so far, this is why i have to ask them over and over again. Im sorry if you feel this way when you say (“but as always i fear you have no interest in gaining answers”) Those were your very own words.
Politicians use this method all the time to simply avoid answering the question, and take the discussion in another direction. Clever tactics as far as i am concerned. I am not for one moment suggesting this is what you are doing Micheal, but a straight forward amswer, to a straight forward question would save a lot of confusion.
At the end of the day Micheal, All survivors have an absolute right to know exactly how all these funds, received by whatever group, is being utilised and spent. After all it (IS TAXPAYERS MONEY.)
There is nothing wrong wrong Micheal with as you say, an Open and Honest debate, as long as it is OPEN AND HONEST.
Micheal,
You have said all of this before about asking questions, and here you go again with more of the same rubbish.
You are filling your Website with utter thrash, and nothing more. Where are all the questions and answers previously asked and answered? All you are doing is trying to Validify youe existance as a Support group, which by the way, (YOU ARE NOT)
How on earth can you expect anybody to believe in anything that you do. What the bloody hell DO you do, apart from claiming your lavish expenses? As far as i can see, All you do is blabber away on your site the greatness of what you do, and what you would like Survivors to believe, nothing more.
Can you please tell everyone, WHY do we need so many offices all over this country? Why do we now need one in Dublin? How many Survivors do you cater for in the name of God, for the necessity of so many offfices? Surely one office in this little island of ours would suffice?
There you go again in your last input to your Website, and i quote (“Our intention, into the future, is to secure funding to increase this as there is a defined need for one in Dublin”)
You see, this is what it is all about , (To secure Funding ) and simply nothing more. You are getting Thousands, and Thousands of Taxpayers money from Governmental sources every year, and you provide absolutely Nothing from their proceeds, how can you jistify this? you ought to be ashamed of yourselves, every one of you.
Another thing Micheal, you go on to ask, (“Why does ROP never speak about the work they do to media”) Your Web page is full of all of you, and all of your encounters with the Media. Meeting the President, interviews on the news at one, Why, you personally saw fit not to attend your first AGM meeting last December, and travel to the United States to promote yourself. Youre utterly dispicable the lot of you. Pathetic.
You asked before about people becoming Volunteers, and you are still asking. I have yet to hear of anyone volunteering to assist you. Is it that you want Survivors to do the work that you are Obviously NOT capable of doing? Quite possibly.
You never stop telling us about Openness, and Transparancy, what do you mean by this? Because NOTHING you do is Transparent, nothing is Clear, and no one is Open. This is why Survivors are always asking questions, and never receiving the proper response from Any of you. This magic word, your organisation has adopted, (CONFIDENTIALITY) You see Automatically this word (CONFIDENTIALITY) Immediately rules out the word (TRANSPARANCY) Think about it Micheal, i was Not educated as you may have been, but i am also NOT Stupid. I wish you would stop using these words, because they do NOT mean what they are supposed to. We can clearly read between the lines.
Another point i have noted Micheal, and its one i want you to answer Truthfully, if this is indeed possible. If your offices are, as you say they are so Innundated with calls, Why are you Now asking Survivors, and again i will quote your very words, (“ WHY DONT YOU RING ME?”) It is Transparent to me and other Survivors, that you are NOT receiving all these thousands of calls, you say you receive every year. I would like you to explain this to your membership.
In your last posting, you are virtually begging Survivors to call your offices, you say we will NOT know if you need support, unless you contact us, so please call us, this is what we are here for.
I take it Sir, that all these stats you have put up on your Website are untruths, and not Facts as you (probably) state in your returns for funding?
Micheal, all these questions and answers you are so often on about. I do NOT see anywhere on your website where Any of these questions you received have been asked, or indeed answered? I often wonder, well maybe No one has asked any, would that be a fair comment? Personally i dont think you are getting ANY feedback from Survivors, but state on your Website that your offices are bursting with so much work. This in my opinion is all LIES.
I would also finally like to ask ROPSC, to tell the membership if they have applied for any position’s on the New Board of Directors to implement the New Statutory Trust Fund?
In response to Micheal,
I was once a member of Right of Place, and got out of it because of the corruption I saw going on in there, their Lies, and everything about them.
This New group who took over I find are NO better. Even from the very start this new group started out on the wrong foot. We did NOT elect this group running the show today, you are most probably well aware of this, but you wont agree, as your Father is Chairman.
This group was NOT democratically elected. Your Father telling everyone that you were the only candidate that fitted the post of Outreach Officer. Do you really expect Survivors to believe this? Do you really think we are all stupid?
I have noted, your Father seems to take NO part now in anything; you seem to be the main person directing operations? Why, has there been yet another Promotion?
I have always fought for the Survivor, and always will, I told your Father this a long time ago.
You state I do not interact with many Survivors on a support level, this is true, I do not, but I do get a lot of personal correspondence from a lot of Survivors, who seem to have the very same problem with your group, and other groups also. A lot of these people have been in contact with your group, but have nothing good to say about you. I wonder WHY?
Yes, you all seem to be very good at putting reports on your website on the great work you are doing for Survivors, but this Micheal is all Talk, Waffle, Waffle, and more Waffle. Not an ounce of proof. Just because the HSE, and who so ever else fund you does NOT say, you are doing a good job, or even doing anything. It’s easy to write an Article. Getting someone to believe it is another thing.
You stated, I never even looked for assistance from your group. Even if I needed assistance from anyone, your group would not even be considered. I want NOTHING from anyone, and especially want NOTHING from your group, as I do NOT trust anyone affiliated to you, or anyone with anything to do with you.
In case you are not aware, Mr Walsh, I did apply for membership on (2) separate occasions, and your group never even had the decency to respond to me. I suppose you saw me as a threat to your organisation, and gave me a wide berth, or classed me as a potential troublemaker, just the same way your group dismissed the decent people, who did their utmost to get Transparency, and Accountability from your group, and tried to run the group properly.
Funny I have seen this same thing happen to other Survivors who may have posed a threat to your group. So Mr Walsh, I suggest you check your earlier correspondence in relation to me applying for membership, and you WILL find, I am telling the truth, I have NO reason whatever to lie.
I know of your so-called services you say you offer. No one has ANY proof of this, again its what you say. You talk about getting Survivors Priority of services. This is total LIES, everyone is equal in the system, and Survivors do NOT get priority when it comes to services. More Lies. We have tried this; It’s simply NOT TRUE.
How many offices do you need in this country to fill out All these forms you talk about, you are supposed to have 1,750 of membership according to your Father. Can you prove to Survivors that you actually have that amount of membership as you claim, and if so, where did you get all the details of these people? You most probably wont answer this question either, I have asked you this numerous times, and you did invite me to ask questions in your response to me, didn’t you?
These are questions I have asked you, time, and time again Mr Walsh, also your Father, as I am sure you will recall only too well, and so will any other Survivors who monitor this Site. I’m sure they will also recall your utter refusal to answer ANY of these valid points. How can your group demand respect, and trust, when nothing you do is Transparent? And you do NOT respond to questioning. Do you have something to hide? Please explain.
All we see on your site is ROP meeting the President, and other utterly useless Propaganda, trying to let the Media see what a great bunch you really are. If they only knew? You can fool some, but NOT all.
I cannot believe you actually stated that, you couldn’t understand how disgraceful the way other Survivor groups are treated. As you said, and I quote, (“If an individual or a group is supporting one Survivor, then in your mind, the government should support that group”) I think Sir; you are now trying to justify your very existence here. This is disgraceful.
Survivors will always be treated as second class citizens again Mr Walsh, as long as groups like yours continue to be funded. Any real Survivor will tell you that. I’m sure you monitor the other sites, and you DO know what I am saying is correct.
Please explain yourself Mr Walsh when you said, (“Perhaps this is why myself, and the other 10 individuals, who have never accessed your services. Have never got anywhere with Government etc regarding Right of Place because logically our arguments and comments do not stack up when looked at objectively”)?
Who are these 10 individuals you speak about Mr Walsh? Also, I have never went to government regarding (Right of Place) So again Sir, as usual you are talking a load of Waffle, which you seem to be very good at, I may add.
I have given you some questions (AGAIN) Mr Walsh, not that you will ever answer them as usual. People will be watching NOW to see if maybe, just maybe you will this time. ? I Sir am NOT, I can assure you looking for support, I can, and always have, stood on my own two feet, and always will.
We as Survivors, have never received Factual Information from your group, I wonder if we ever will? And this Sir is, I can assure you, NOT brought on by Anger.
Actually Mr Walsh, I am a very quiet, placid, likeable type of fellow, so I am told, with No resentment for anyone; but if you wish to label me as angry, then I cannot be responsible for your feelings, so so sorry. I wish I could help you avail of counseling, to help you overcome your guilt, due to Nepotism.
I will let up writing about your group, and other groups, when I see some Truth and Transparency that you all talk about being exercised.
So far, not many groups I see meet these criteria, and are open to criticism. I don’t enjoy having to write about any group, but if I think someone is trying to take the Mickey, I will react, and let them know.
If you want people to believe in anything you do in that group, prove it, and don’t be dishing out excuses all the time. Survivors have put up with enough.
Anyone else have trouble getting funding from the Education Finance Board? Instead of feeling compensated by the fund I felt like I earned every penny I had to fight for.
WHAT GOOD IS THIS TRUST, I SEEN C BUCKLEY AT THE ANNOUNCEMENT GETTING READY FOR HER PLACE ON THE BOARD LIKE WALSH AND TREANOR OF ROP TO CONTINUE THE GRAVY TRAIN.
READING THE TRUST FUND ALL WE CAN GET IS COUNCELING AND EDUCATION WE ALREDY HAVE THESE AVAILABE.
AS MOST SURVIVERS ARE AROUND 60 OR 70
IN TEN TO FIFTEEN YEARS TIME, MOST OF US WILL BE DEAD, WHO WILL GET THE MONEY. AS FAR AS I CAN SEE
THE ONLY ONES WHO WILL DO VERY WELL OUT OF THIS
SWINDLE ARE THE ADMINISTRATERS AND THE BOARD WITH THEIR EXPENSES.
TO END, THANKS TO ALL THE POLICIANS WHO PROMISED BEFORE
THE LAST ELECTION TO FIGHT OUR CAUSE ,YOU SHOULD BE ALL ASHAMED OF YOURSELFS.
AS FAR AS THE MEMORIAL IS CONCERNED IT SHOULD BE BLOWN UP
IF I WANT ONE I CAN GO TO THE GRAVEYARDS OF THE INDUSTRIAL SCHOOLS TO SEE THE CROSSES
Memorial for the Victims of Institutional Abuse
A chairde,
Please find below a joint statement from Minister Quinn and Minister Hayes who today have announced the winner of a competition to provide a Memorial for the Victims of Institutional Abuse.
It is ironic that this announcement comes during the same week the Institutional Residential Redress Statutory Fund was passed by the Government despite the opposition of Sinn Féin and the rejection of our amendments that included:
1. The establishment of separate Redress Boards for the survivors of the Magdalene Laundries and Bethany Home;
2. An extension of educational supports for the children and grandchildren of survivors;
3. The provision of assistance for survivors living outside the State who wish to return to Ireland to set-up home;
4. A one off payment to survivors and a 6 month deadline from when the Fund is established for the Religious Orders to pay the outstanding money they owe to the fund and a 10% penalty to be levied on Religious Orders on the amount owed should they fail to meet this deadline.
Yes we believe the State should remember the victims of institutional abuse but more fittingly, they should look after the survivors who are still living with the legacy of their time in these “care homes”.
Le meas,
Deputy Seán Crowe
For immediate release
20th July 2012
Ministers Quinn and Hayes announce winner of competition to provide a Memorial to the Victims of Institutional Abuse
The Minister for Education and Skills, Ruairí Quinn T.D., and the Minister of State for the Office of Public Works (OPW), Brian Hayes T.D., today (Friday 20th July) announced the winner of a competition to provide a memorial to victims of institutional abuse as recommended in the Ryan Report and endorsed by Dáil Éireann.
Studio Negri and Hennessy & Associates have been awarded the commission for their entry Journey of Light.
Announcing the winner, Minister Quinn said, “As a strong advocate for the memorial to the victims of institutional abuse, I am pleased to announce the winning entry for the competition today.
“The Jury’s recommendation follows months of deliberations and consultation, including with representatives of the survivors of institutional abuse and a public consultation process.
“I believe that the winning entry, Journey of Light, will act as a testimony to one of the darkest chapters in our State’s history and what we collectively as a society allowed to happen to vulnerable children. I hope it will serve as a constant reminder that we must never let such horrendous crimes against children happen again and we must strive to protect all of our children,” said the Minister.
The Ryan Report recommended the erection of a Memorial to victims of institutional abuse and noted the importance of the State’s formal recognition of the abuse and suffering being preserved in a permanent place.
Independent 14th July 2012
AN abuse victim has won a legal victory after the European Court of Human Rights agreed to hear her case against the Irish State.
Louise O’Keeffe (46) confirmed to the Irish Independent last night that the Strasbourg-based court has agreed to hear her complaint despite vehement objections from the State.
If Ms O’Keeffe wins her action, it could open the floodgates to a raft of appeals from abuse victims denied compensation from the State because the incidents occurred in church-run or independent schools.
Ms O’Keeffe was abused as an eight-year-old in a Dunderrow primary school in Cork in 1973 by then principal, Leo Hickey.
She sued the State, claiming the Department of Education was liable as it paid the teacher’s wages, supervised the curriculum and inspected the classrooms.
However, the State insisted that it was not liable given that there was an independent board of management in place.
The department denied vicarious liability.
Ms O’Keeffe took a civil action against Leo Hickey — now retired — and was awarded a monthly payment of around €400. He was jailed for three years in 1998 after being convicted of indecently assaulting a number of girls in the 1970s.
Ms O’Keeffe lost her Supreme Court challenge in 2008 — and, in 2009, she expressed fears she would lose her home given that legal costs were estimated at over €750,000.
The Supreme Court later ruled that the mother of two should not be held liable for the costs as there were “exceptional reasons” for her taking the case. Ms O’Keeffe and her Cork solicitor, Ernest Cantillon, then appealed to the European Court of Human Rights.
Over 200 other abuse victims either dropped or postponed their actions in the wake of the Supreme Court judgment.
– Ralph Riegel
Irish Independent
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PLEASE NOTE BELOW, THE REVERSAL OF POLICY BY THE GROUP ROPSC REGARDING THE NEW STATUTORY TRUST FUND. I ASK, WAS THIS ALWAYS THEIR POLICY??
This is a response from the Chairman of ROPSC, to a question from Robert Northall on his Site, The Shame of Ireland.
Please NOTE, the Chairman of ROPSC, can answer questions put to him by NON-members of his organisation, and yet Adamantly refuses to consult with his own membership on these important issues.
This group, Now fully support this New Statutory Fund, and the only reason they are doing this, is to secure a position on the NEW Statutory Fund Board. How very clever.
By doing this, they will ensure that their group ROPSC will always be funded for a long time to cover their expenses.
Their agenda has never been about supporting Survivors, but securing jobs for themselves.
ROPSC has always supported the Statutory Fund right from the beginning when Noel C Barry was Chairman.
From the very first meeting between government and the heads of the groups, the minutes of that meeting reflect Noel C, Barry’s request for a Trust Fund.
To gain support for this complete change of policy, they would NOW have us believe that (500) fictitious Survivors requested support of how to access this New Fund. This of course would keep them employed for the next (50) years, until the Fund runs out, or until we are all dead
Hi Robert,
Thank you for the information regarding the stages of the Bills reading. However, we were at these stages and listened with interest to all of the contributions by all of the sides.
You have asked me a question in relation to’ Right of Places Second Chance’s current position regarding this bill. OK, Robert I will endeavour to explain our position in two parts (1) and (2)
(1) Our position regarding the Trust Fund has been to oppose it and demand that all monies be given to survivors as just and fair redress for all our suffering. Full stop. This was the views of all our members and all those who we sought a response from. This was reflected in my signing of the petition on your site and in our submissions to Minister R Quinn in government buildings and is in the minutes of that meeting (On Public Record).
One of the reasons for this stance was that this 110 million, we believed, was given to us as part payment by the religious orders as redress, but the only dispute was whether it was to be as a fund or should be given to us directly and we should have a say in how it should be given out – because we were the right full recipients of this money. We believed it to be OUR money. On investigation from a legal and practical point we discovered that:
(a) We did not have a legal leg to stand on to demand that this money be given to us and
(b) The Religious Orders themselves gave confusing and contradictory instructions on how this fund was to be distributed! and
(c) So far there is only 20 million released to the Government – in fact they are not under any legal obligation to make any contribution if they so wish! and
(d) The Government have made it clear that they intend to pass this bill and no amount of indignation or threats or sense of outrage is going to make a blind bit of difference to them.
So why is the Government taking this position? They believe it is the best and right thing to do for survivors: And remember this – It is NOT our money! It is the Government’s money to do as they will with it. These are the facts as we understand them and consequently armed with this information our current position has changed and it is this..
(2) In our Annual Report last year we had some 5,393 contacts to our offices,and the main areas of concern for Survivors were in housing, welfare, social supports AND in trust fund inquiries. Five hundred survivors requested information on accessing this fund.
So our changed position is to enable all those that seek help to access this fund we will help. That’s our position.
Being outraged, angry, and opposed to the present reality will not change that. If Survivors wish to carry on in opposition then that is their choice, however as we have met senior politicians and department representatives who unequivocally state the Governments stance and legal advice, we had two choices. These were to blindly oppose the Trust Fund (knowing we cannot change it, as per points above) or offer our suggestions to enhance the Fund and we chose the latter. Knowing what we do know and having a greater understanding of the zero possibility the Trust Fund has of being rejected, we decided not to lead Survivors “up a garden Path”, by saying we are against it (when we are aware of how unsuccessful this opposition will be) as we feel this would be disingenuous to Survivors.
I only wish to bring clarity and understanding to the debate.
Best regards
Michael Walsh
I made a mistake sorry . i dont know these men so thier religion is just not got anything to do with the rest of us. these are the very people who let all the rapes happen. thay knew what industriel schools were like. i think that forgiving is over rated as no one forgets.
for. as for jesus would thay please leave him out of thingss so that its well known how sincere thay are. well I dont want to be reconciled with that lot of child molesters. the pope and his church are trying to convince people that abuse can be cured. what a load of shite. no one can change the past no matte how sincere thay seem thay were sincere when thay raped and beat and brought fear to eve..
The Irish Times – Thursday, June 14, 2012
Mixed reaction to cardinal’s meeting
In this section »
Papal legate ‘deeply moved’ by abuse survivors
ALISON HEALY
ABUSE SURVIVORS: OLIVER BURKE of Munster Survivors Support Services was at the meeting with papal legate Cardinal Marc Ouellet.*
He said there were seven people at the meeting in Lough Derg but they were asked to respect each other’s privacy by not discussing who was there. The meeting was “absolutely excellent”, he said.
“We were very pleased with it. We believe we were heard and it will not finish there. We certainly won’t allow it to finish there.”
He said he felt Cardinal Ouellet was sincere in his offer to meet abuse survivors. “I saw how it affected the cardinal. I’m around too long not to recognise genuine sincerity and he was extremely affected by our stories,” he said.
“I was very impressed with the cardinal and the papal nuncio also impressed me.
“It was time for the meeting. We have now laid the foundations and it’s time to build on the momentum.”
But news of the papal legate’s meeting came as a surprise to some prominent campaigners for the rights of abuse victims.
Christine Buckley of the Aislinn Education and Support Centre said she didn’t know the meeting had been held until she was contacted by the media.
“I’m absolutely disgusted,” she said. “It was a PR exercise. Nothing ever changes.”
John Kelly of Survivors of Child Abuse said he had sought a meeting with the papal legate but one was not granted.
“They are very highly selective in who they meet,” he said.
“We represent the vast majority of people who were in institutions here and in the United Kingdom.”
He had protested “in a limited and dignified way” outside the Eucharistic Congress on Sunday.
“We hoped the papal legate would have come out to meet us but he never came out,” he said.
Michael O’Brien of the Right to Peace group and Christopher Heaphy of Voices of the Existing Survivors said they had applied in writing for an audience with the papal legate but did not get one.
In a joint statement, they said the church was “now picking and choosing which survivors are invited for a blessing”.
They described the meeting as “once again nothing more than a big public relations exercise to whitewash the sins of the many”.
Mr O’Brien said he would have “walked to Lough Derg” if the papal legate had asked him but he had not been contacted.
Abuse survivor Marie Collins said she had not been asked to the meeting but had no issue with that. However, she said abuse victims did not need any more words and gestures.
“We need action and that should start with the removal of Cardinal Brady,” she said.
The Lámh Healing Foundation said it “respectfully declined” the invitation to a meeting with Cardinal Ouellet.
“The two-day prior notice given did not give the foundation the chance to prepare for what could and should be an important and meaningful meeting,” its chief executive Dave Dineen said.
* This article was edited on June 15th, 2012, to correct a factual error.
I see where the Chairman of the group (Munster Survivors Support Services) was protesting outside (Right of Place) the other day.
I also noted this person, along with two others were the only ones protesting. I
I was led to believe , this person had a big following? I did Not see his followers giving him any support that day, I wonder Why?
Maybe it was that this person does Not have any membership?and only speaks for himself.
Why this person had to protest outside the offices of (Right of Place) puzzles me.
Why, because this person told me on numerous occasions, that he had a mountain of evidence to put all in (Right of Place) behind bars.
Seemingly, he was Bluffing, because If he had any Credible evidence as he was telling everyone he had, he would NOT need to protest outside these offices. All he would have to do is go to the Police with his mountain of evidence he is SUPPOSED to possess.
Don’t talk Mr B, of having evidence, if you are not going to come forward with it.
We are all sick and tired of hearing this Waffle from you, and personally we do Not believe you, unless maybe, just maybe, in doing do, you would be implementing yourself.
You threatened on numerous occasions to reveal this evidence, only at the last minute to back out of it, and came up with excuses of being sick, and what not.
Where was your (So Called Membership Support) Mr B, when you needed it????
Did Mr. O’Brien read what Mattie McGrath T.D. said about him in the Dáil Debate on the Residential Statutory Trust Fund. Might I suggest he do so. The link is on the index page of this website. Mr. O’Brien might like to comment.
On another point, while I welcome comments to this website, it is no an ‘Right of Peace’ or a ‘V.O.T.E.S’ forum. Paddy
Press Release today 16/06/2012 By:-
Michael O’Brien P.C. Chairperson, ‘Right to Peace’ Former Mayor of Clonmel.
Christopher Heaphy Chairperson, ‘V.O.T.E.S.’ ( Voices of the Existing Survivors ).
Subject:- A Denied Request to speak at the Eucharestic Congress.
If they would only Listen
Fellow Christians,
We are most privileged to address you on a topic which will bring home to you, how much we need the presence of Christ among us, and more so today than at any other time mankind has been on this beautiful planet. This Congress acknowledges His presence in a wonderful way. The Church and sin are inextricably linked. O Felix culpa we might chorus –O happy fault.
But sin makes for little joy, as human suffering in all its forms, most often inflicted on the poorest, weakest, and most vulnerable in our society, is what sin is all about.
We are survivors of these sins, and we represent many other survivors, whose lives have been blighted by acts of incredible coldness, meanness, and neglect and by vicious assaults inflicted on our persons fueled by all the most unimaginable horrors of human depravity. We know the depths that human nature can sink to, when we fail to acknowledge our inner darkness. The first step to virtue, is to acknowledge our guilt.
This huge injustice, unmentionable vice happened to us and thousands of others within the confines of the Industrial Schools system, manned and operated by and under the supervision of the Catholic Church in Ireland. We served ‘Child, Life Sentences’ in these Institutions.
Irish society had early warnings that things were awry. Fr. Flanagan of Boystown fame in Nebraska was here in 1946, and spoke loudly and unequivocally about what was being perpetrated.
Church and State, the chief culprits in the system, ignored his warnings.
What kind of evil force could push well educated, austere, apparently virtuous men and women, into a situation where they incessantly and consistently harassed and punished young girls and boys, whose only crime was poverty. What warped view of these children, could sustain such persecution over so long a time.
Were we seen as subhuman, diabolical?
The perpetrators of sexual abuse against us, we’ll leave to God.
Nothing in Christianity explains all of this. We must look more closely at Irish society, and come to some judgement on what was the root cause. There is some constant, across the country, which must be identified and labelled. This constant predates and negatives to different extents, the later Christian indoctrination these people endured. This preChristian mindset must be eradicated from our Church.
For too long we blamed the Famine on British malpractice, until some brave historian asked a few awkward questions. The things he discovered about our own complicity in the event, should help us find an answer here as well. It may be an unpleasant realisation.
The end result of policies reminiscent of the gulags and death camps, is that there are many hundreds of men and women, who survived the system, living lives of sadness, misery and constant moral and physical suffering. They are living mostly in Ireland and the UK, average age, over sixty, on the brink of disaster, and need our help to soften the hard edges of what have been excruciating existences.
We have requested the Hierarchy, who so far have given us nothing, to help us, help these people, only to be fobbed off with expressions of sympathy, offers of counseling and prayers, when something further is so badly needed.
Smoke screens of different shades and murkiness have been edged in between us and them, to prevent their being called to account. They present the hard faced bargaining abilities of a conscienceless cattle dealer at an old fashioned Fair Day, who knows he has all the advantages on his side.
This is indeed a travesty- their main concern is to preserve their bank balances. The poor man on the way to Jericho who fell among thieves, was ignored by the same type of lofty cleric, resplendently attired, hurrying on his way.
The one constant, over the centuries, is human nature.
All of this is so, even though the same hierarchy have openly admitted their role in this terrible tragedy.
Imagine Christian churchmen also resorting to the civil judiciary and courts system, in their attempt to stave off any effort made by us to get some recompense. The people intent on destroying Christ did the same. We in fact have a deep feeling of affinity with Christ, because of what has happened to us. We were also dehumanised.
We asked for bread, they gave us a stone. We rejected a memorial stone, but that is all we got, much to our annoyance, last Sunday.
Claims made by Church press releases during the last few days have described the Clerics as being in dialogue with Survivors. We know for a fact that one person was involved in one such meeting, and not very many in the others. The Church technically was telling the truth as usual, while it handpicked its ‘survivors’.
The implications of the Church resorting to the legal road have been cruel and wasteful. We have come across crooked dealings in this area, where people frequently speak duplicitously, expend the least amount of energy in their endeavors, and walk off with a huge percentage of the compensation funds, in their copious pockets. These are the backbone of Irish Society, ‘mara ea’.
The statute of limitations has been invoked against us, and poor, often illiterate men and women have been made to sign a waiver that they could not understand, and which prevented them from ever being heard from again.
The State and Church are determined to keep the victims of Industrial School abuse in their proper place.
The problem is that the Church has lost so much money paying the compensation for clerical abuse, they are determined to hold the ring against us, the victims of institutional abuse.
Our plight is deserving of equal if not greater comforting. We Served ‘Child,Life Sentences’, under their watch, and in their Catholic Institutions.
Refusing to help us is not a Christian option. We do not have access to the proper courts, and never will, because of political manipulations.
Likewise the Hierarchy have allowed the Religious Orders involved in the whole sorry mess, to face demands made on their resources, without any advice or help, the result being feelings of discord between the diocesan and these religious bodies.
At least the hierarchy should have had the courage to let us talk to you here today, and fill you in on a campaign which is so dear to our hearts. Personally we have nothing to gain from any of this. The PP back in West Waterford was most gracious last month, when he allowed a talk to fellow parishioners on the same topic.
This may be a beginning.
We have also asked the clergy to institute an Annual Day of Atonement for the victims of the Industrial School system, living and dead. This would be a perpetual warning that such horrors must never again be visited by any of us on weak and vulnerable people.
Yet the time for talking is over. Let the Hierarchy recover their dignity, and their soul, and make a new beginning, no longer hiding behind all kinds of stratagems and smoke screens. We will be grateful for any help we receive.
There are hundreds of people in dire need ; these and all of us will rejoice in a new beginning. It will be a cheap price to pay for the resolution of problems and healing of injuries inflicted on innocent children.
‘Anything you do to these Victims/Survivors, you do it to Us’. This is the only Law the Hierarchy need worry about, and surrounding which there are no waivers.
We end by thanking this Government for the ‘Residential Institutions Statutory Fund Bill 2012’. It will go some way to alleviate and help the suffering of survivors of Institutional Abuse.
Our thoughts, prayers, and support go out to ‘Justice for Magdalenes” .
Our heartfelt sympathy to all members of ‘Patient Focus and Survivors of Symphysiotomy’.
Thank you all for your patience.
Michael O’Brien P.C. Chairman:- ‘Right to Peace’
Christopher Heaphy B.E. Chairman:- ‘V.O.T.E.S.’ ( Voices of the Existing Survivors ).
Honesty urged over abuse by religious
In this section.
ALISON HEALY
A MAN who was blinded by a rubber bullet in Derry as a child has urged the Catholic Church to be open and honest in the way it deals with the legacy of child abuse by priests and religious orders.
Richard Moore, founder of the Children in Crossfire charity, was at the Eucharistic Congress to speak about reconciliation.
He was shot and blinded by a rubber bullet fired by a British soldier when he was 10 years old. Blindness had been “a positive experience” for him and he attributed this to the support from his family and community and “the power of my parents’ prayers”.
“I didn’t have any anger or any bitterness about what happened. I basically had that gift of forgiveness,” he said. He met the soldier who shot him in 2007 and they were now friends.
Asked how the church could encourage reconciliation in the wake of the child abuse crisis, he said: “We know there’s got to be changes. I think the church knows that. They’re maybe not coming quick enough, they’re maybe not coming radical enough but I think the church has recognised that.”
Mr Moore said the most important thing was “openness and honesty and I think many, many people in the church possess that”.
Fr Kevin Doran, secretary general of the Eucharistic Congress, said the organisers had sought advice on whether groups representing survivors of abuse should be personally invited to the congress. The advice they had received was that it was preferable to offer an invitation to survivors individually rather than in groups.
“There was a risk survivors might become part of a PR exercise, which we didn’t want,” he said.
The plan to invite some abuse survivors to meet papal legate Cardinal Marc Ouellet in Lough Derg was organised outside the congress, Fr Doran said.
Two survivors of institutional abuse who were not invited to that meeting have formally asked to speak at the Eucharistic Congress on the final day.
Michael O’Brien of the Right to Peace group and Christopher Heaphy of Voices of the Existing Survivors said they wanted the church “to listen to, to understand and to give heed to, the needs and wants of survivors of abuse from the institutions”.
In a joint statement addressed to church leaders, they also called for an annual national day of atonement. “It will serve as a reminder to be forever on our guard when it comes to protecting the most vulnerable in our society.”
Some 12,700 pilgrims attended the Eucharistic Congress on Wednesday while an estimated 12,500 took part in the procession through Ballsbridge later that evening.
There were long queues outside workshops at the RDS yesterday and large screens have now been set up outside to broadcast the proceedings from some of the more popular workshops.
Trócaire director Justin Kilcullen told the congress it had been easier to put a man on the moon than to end world poverty. A billion people were still going to bed hungry every day and one child was dying every three seconds from hunger.
“If applied to Ireland, the annual child death rate from hunger would be 10,000 a year. This would be totally unacceptable,” he said.
“Yet on a global scale we have come to accept the seeming inevitability of the scandal of poverty and hunger. Nobody loses their job, let alone goes to prison for allowing this situation to continue.”
Moore and songwriter fall out over Congress
Singer’s comments that the event shouldn’t be held here provoke anger
‘I HATE IT ALL’: Christy Moore on the Congress
Colum Kenny: Is the Church a club with rules you accept or leave?
It was a collaboration made in heaven but Christy Moore and songwriter Johnny Duhan, who penned Christy’s modern classic The Voyage, have fallen out over the Eucharistic Congress.
Christy said that this week’s Eucharistic Congress should not be held in Ireland and he wishes that it “would go away”.
The 67-year-old musician spoke out to oppose the event, which begins today and culminates with a special Mass in Croke Park next Sunday, with 80,000 of the faithful expected to attend.
“I have no idea why they decided to bring it here. I don’t think it should be held here. I just wish it would go away because I hate it all,” Mr Moore said.
“I’ve been writing about the church for 30 or 40 years. I have a song called Strange Ways, it’s about the whole f***ing lot of them.
“I hate it (the Catholic hierarchy) but I don’t think about it too much because it tends to make me angry.”
But Johnny Duhan, a practising Catholic, has defended the church and the decision to bring the Eucharistic Congress here.
“As the writer of one of Christy Moore’s most popular songs, The Voyage, I’m surprised and disappointed by the venom of his attack on the forthcoming Eucharistic Congress. The word ‘hate’ always sends a shiver down my spine, no matter what context it is used in,” he said.
Johnny started his career as a 15-year-old frontman with the Limerick-based band Granny’s Intentions in the Sixties but these days is best known as a songwriter, though he still performs.
The Voyage is Christy Moore’s most popular song, according to iTunes downloads, and is a favourite at weddings and funerals worldwide.
But the songsmith was clearly hurt by Christy’s attack on the church.
“I may well share Christy’s outrage at the flawed response of the Catholic hierarchy to the brutal crimes committed against children in our State, but I believe in a God who will deal with these complex issues in His own good time.
“To answer the question put by Christy as to why the congress is taking place in Ireland at this time is easy: the majority of the Irish population still profess to be Catholic, and, as Catholics, we have as much right to celebrate the faith we believe in, as pop, rock and folk crowds have a right to congregate to celebrate music and popular culture. If love is a boat, Christy, hate is a ball and chain,” he said.
– JEROME REILLY
Sisters of Mercy will not meet with Quinn
22/07/11
Image: Niall Carson/PA Wire/Press Association Images
EDUCATION MINISTER RUAIRÍ Quinn was due to meet with religious congregations today about bridging the gap of an estimated €350 million in compensation to victims of abuse in residential institutions.
He invited 18 religious congregations who were implicated in the Ryan report to discuss their offers towards the bill.
However a statement on the Sisters of Mercy website states that the Sisters “declined” an invitation to the meeting.
It also said the Sisters believe:
that they have been misrepresented and demonised in recent years and that their Congregation has been portrayed in a way that seeks to undermine their voluntary service to this country and beyond.
They said that they wanted to state the Commission “did not make a recommendation that the State’s expenditure upon the commission and the redress scheme would be borne 50:50 between the State and 18 religious congregations”.
They also say that “here has never been an agreement between the State and 18 religious congregations that the costs of the Redress Scheme would be borne on a 50:50 basis”.
It has been wrongly suggested that the Congregation has disadvantaged the State in that it has failed to honour a debt. The Congregation has met and will continue to meet all of its commitments to former residents and to the State.
Sister Coirle McCarthy, the Congregational Leader, said:
In making the offer in December 2009, our first priority was the well-being of all the former residents of our industrial schools. It is for the benefit of all former residents that we offer €20m to an independent fund together with a number of properties valued at €11.5m.
The Sisters of Mercy said their 2009 offer included properties offered to the State valued at December 2009 at €80,856,80; properties offered to the voluntary sector valued at December 2009 at €15,060,000.
The Sisters said they “regret that the Government has determined that the Statutory Fund for former residents will not benefit from the properties offered to it or even from their proceeds of sale”.
If the State does not accept these properties, five of them will be offered to local county councils and two significant properties will be sold and the proceeds will go the new National Children’s Hospital.
The Sisters say that in the last 10 years they have donated cash and property in excess of €1billion to ensure that these voluntary services continue.
Sister Coirle concluded by emphasising that “our Congregation will continue to care for those who were with us as children” and added “we take this opportunity to, again, offer our heartfelt apology to all those who were hurt and damaged in our institutions.”
I can’t walk so I don’t know about walking a mile Ha Ha!! Neither am I any good at geography but I’m almost 100% certain that the distance between Cork and Dublin is a little bit more than a mile. I could be wrong! If anyone knows the correct answer to the question you pose Monica, I’m sure they will be kind enough to share the answer here. Paddy.
The eucharist congress is about the church being on show.Why do you want to organise this arrival of victims of abuse by the church. it just sounds like a way of showing off. what is that supposed to mean in this day and age. who needs a day of atonement.many no longer practice any religion. So if thats only for the still catholics and of course making people who werent even born feel guilty and uneasy in our company well that isint worth walking in any shoes other than my own .
Paddy
Are they only walking a mile? Cork to Dublin is more than a Mile.
Another publicity stunt that will be of benefit to nobody. There comes a time to cry STOP and that time is now. Paddy
WALK A MILE IN OUR SHOES.
A National day of Atonement, for Survivors of the Industrial Schools is, at present being organised.
This walk will be taking place from Cork to Dublin.
All groups are more than welcome to participate in this walk, so please give us your support.
Watch this Notice for dates, times, and Route.
We Will arrive at the RDS in Dublin, for the first day of The Eucharist Congress.
Signed
Michael O’Brien
Christopher Heaphy
Thomas Higgins.
Hello monica it sounds as if you missed out on the special enlightment tea prepared by daidmund martin himself. i did too so i havent changed my mind about the church.as for atonement ext i would rather have my tongue cut of than forgive men who buggered little boys and beat starved and overworked hundreds of children in thier care. these groups have erased the industriel schools from the paperwork.
The girls from High Park Industrial School have never received “AN APOLOGY from any of the nuns to this day. Yet I heard that the nuns have built a memorial in their new garden for the children who were left in their PAID care, YET, they Omitted to tell any of us still alive. I understand the MEMORIAL if you can call it that is children on a see-saw, most possible in Bronze. I think they did this to “MAKE THEMSELVES FEEL BETTER”. Of course to see the Memorial you would have to get past the nuns first, so whats the point? They have yet to do a MEMORIAL for the Magdalen Women who were at High Park Magdalen Laundry.
As for a day of Atonement and the like, all a BIG PUFF OF WHITE SMOKE. Waste of time, and OH, I suppose there will be tea and sandwiches served after and the odd pair of feet washed to boot and we will all be a happy family again and everything is done and dusted. It’s a great little country isn’t it?
An apology in another guise! Do we really need it? Speaking for myself, I don’t. Paddy.
Bishops would support a day of atonement
By Claire O’Sullivan
Tuesday, May 22, 2012
The country’s bishops would support the holding of a national day of atonement where the Church, State, and citizens seek forgiveness for the legacy of abuse in industrial schools.
A spokesman for the bishops last night said they would not be against the idea once it was “sensitively organised” and not a rushed exercise.
Standing at the altar of a Co Waterford church during Mass on Sunday, 67-year-old survivor Christopher Heaphy raised the idea of an annual day of atonement which he said would act as an “everlasting reminder for everyone that such disgraceful treatment of the weakest in our society must never again be allowed to happen”.
He also expressed a fear that the bishops were trying to “shrug off” survivors and may be “locked into a mindset by which they will attempt to wash their hands, and try for closure, where there is none”.
A spokesman for the Bishops’ Conference said: “Such a day of atonement could not be rushed. It would have to be sensitively prepared. The Church has a moral duty to apologise, to ask for forgiveness and seek healing from those hurt by the actions of another member. It is hoped that liturgies of atonement, reparation, and reconciliation — which are appropriately and sensitively prepared — will contribute towards the healing of survivors”.
According to the Catholic Communications Office, the Church is examining “suggestions and recommendations” on how best to undertake religious ceremonies which will “bring consolation, healing, support, and renewal to survivors of abuse”.
I suppose thay are sincere but like many others from the industriel schools i dont want anything like what mr heapy is discribing. as for a day of atonment .well we still dont know whats happening to the memoral. the past is gone nothing the church or groups can does can change that as for returning there well its too late. we are old now. have a good look at the staturary fund. there is no mention of the industriel school inmates. its a way of burying the whole lot of us. no mention of the magdelaine ladies either.
Another stunt to try and make the clergy look good. Give us a break!
Mossie,
Very fine speech. It’s my understanding that Mr.Heapley was and maybe is a member of Right of Place First chance and second Chance. I note at the end of the speech he is asking for funds for these homeless people and he has a waiting list. I would suggest he approaches Right of Place Second chance for funds as they are funded by the HSe and the department of education. I have had dealings with Mr. Heaply before regarding his use of the DATA BASE that Right of Place had and that Right of Place Second used for people who were NOT NOT a member of such an organisation.
I say again very fine speech , but please read between the lines.
Humble Plea for a Day of Atonement.
A Survivor made a powerful, emotional, and comprehensive speech today, on the 3rd Anniversary of the publication of The Ryan Report.
The speech was given at Sunday Mass, in the little village of Aglish, in County Waterford.
Begin.
Good morning friends, neighbors and fellow believers in Our Lord Jesus Christ.
My name is Christopher Heaphy, and I am a survivor of the Industrial School system, which wreaked havoc on so many young lives, including my own, throughout most of the 20th Century.
Some other survivors of the system are here with us in our lovely parish church this morning. You are all most welcome.
One of these is the former Mayor of Clonmel Michael O’Brien, who is here today with his lovely wife Mary.
“Cead mile Failte agus buiochas duit”.
I would also like to thank our PP Fr. Gerry, who has had the courage to let me address you all this Ascension Morning on a subject, which is causing controversy and consternation at all levels of the Irish Church.
If every churchman was as compassionate and understanding as our Parish priest, I would have no need to talk to you like this. “Mile buiochas duit”.
Today is the third anniversary of the publication produced by the “Commission to Enquire into Child Abuse”, better known to all of us as the Ryan report.
These are five volumes of dreadful, disturbing content, which outline in graphic detail the horrors visited on a helpless, homeless and truly hopeless sub class of innocent Irish children, who were stigmatised, isolated and incarcerated across the length and breadth of Ireland; this system of Irish gulags was masterminded and instituted by politicians and civil servants representing the Irish people, and administered efficiently, sad to say by mostly Roman Catholic orders of men and women who might have been expected to know better.
The only crime these innocent orphans committed was that they were poor, and/or one or both of their parents had succumbed to any of a host of health hazards, then prevalent.
Many of those orders seemed to imagine that they were in the way of making a surplus or profit at the expense of these poor children and operated on this basis. These monies were used elsewhere. I’ll spare you a description of the resulting horrors.
Beside the five volumes of the Ryan report there is a copy of the Pastoral Letter of the Holy Father, Pope Benedict XVI, to the Catholics of Ireland, and….the Pastoral Response from the Irish Catholic Bishops’ Conference.
Both documents leave an awful lot to be desired. So much so, I wonder if the magnitude of the crimes, visited on us by the Industrial Schools system, has yet been appreciated by the these clergy who are now the superiors of the perpetrators or miscreants of the cruel system.
Instead of being anxious to undo the terrible damage done to these/ us children, I hope they are not locked in to a mindset, by which they will attempt to wash their hands, and try for closure where there is none, and where there will not be none, until hell freezes over.
Jesus himself kept his most terrifying words for just such situations.
The Catholic Church, which may have once made a surplus/profit from the administering of Industrial Schools, must leave no stone unturned in their efforts to alleviate the ongoing sufferings and hardships, that my generation of children, and those before and after, have had to endure.
Let the Catholic Church’s Bank balance do the suffering, if needs be.
A poorer Church could be a better Church.
Things are bad, and until accountability of some kind is arrived at, things will only get worse.
A Church which denies help and compassion to these ‘little ones’, as we were, and continues on its weary way of not seeing the wood for the trees, can at best be engaged with, or indulging in religiosity, a terrible indictment, self inflicted.
On February 8th 2010, I wrote to the Holy Father, and in my letter I declared that my Church, my country and the general Irish public, have inflicted enormous cruelty, pain and hardship on me throughout my life.
There was hope in my heart as I awaited a reply.
There was no reply, a deafening silence, even though I had hand delivered my epistle, to a bishop, requesting that it be delivered to the Pope.
The same apathy and indifference that crucified us as children, is being shown to us as I talk. But we are not going away.
The future history books of Ireland will tell our sad story.
Shame, where is thy blush?
Over one hundred and seventy thousand children, including two brothers, Liam and Sean, and myself were committed to the industrial schools between 1937 and 1970.
This happened as a result of District Courts’ activities, the reason for the sentence being poverty.
The average length of confinement was seven years; Sean, Liam and myself served thirty-five years between us. Sean was three, I was five, and Liam was seven. We were no more than babies: our crime was ‘being poor’.
On May 11th1999, the Government of this country, apologized to us, on behalf of the state and on behalf of the Citizens of the state, for
‘Collective failure to intervene in our suffering,
Failure to detect our pain,
and failure to come to our rescue.’
Some ten years later, on May 20th 2009, the Ryan Report was published.
In the light of what this revealed, the above apology went nowhere nearly far enough.
A month later the Ryan report came before the Dáil. On that day Michael O’Brien and myself sat up in the public gallery, and cried as we listened to speeches, by T.Ds, which were a reflection and expression of what our lives were like as children.
That day, Enda Kenny, father of three children, made the following powerful remarks.
I quote:
The report of the Ryan Commission shames us all.
It shames us as a State and as a Society.
We stand complicit in the criminalising of little children, as a consequence of their poverty.
But that’s just the beginning.
This State was responsible for the destruction of life itself.
It was responsible for the destruction of that precious, formative gift: childhood.
We should all be haunted by what Ryan found out. Because he has revealed a Great Famine of Compassion. A plague of deliberate, relentless cruelty.
We stand shamed – and we must not excuse ourselves of that shame.
Unquote. This denunciation of our nation, puts us in the company of monstrous super-race regimes, racist inspired geneticists, exterminators, fascists, and slave traders.
But we did this to our own, the most vulnerable in our society, the most deserving and the least demanding.
Shame, where is thy blush?. (Stop! You’re making me look into my very soul, where the marks of sin are so thick and black they will never be washed away. )
These are the words of our present Taoiseach, Enda Kenny, energised by what he had discovered within the covers of the Ryan Report.
As a survivor of an Industrial school, I thank our Taoiseach for his ringing words, which paint a picture of cruelty that no child should ever have to endure, especially ‘Paisti na HEireann.’
But words are no longer enough.
We seek Atonement for what has happened to us, from the state, the Irish people and the Church.
The time for talking is over.
Now we have to go and look in all the corners, crevices, park benches, railway bridges and wherever the victims of this disgrace may be sheltering…and bandage their wounds…comfort their anxious minds, bring them back home if possible and provide them with whatever they may need to compensate for their lack of education, their scarcity of social skills and the shriveled humanity that we by our meanness forced on them.
Our bank of Youth was burgled by this system.
As well as being incarcerated, we were physically abused, and dehumanized; it was very difficult to stand in line, be patient and wait our turn, when we already knew that there was not enough as usual, for everyone.
It was, the survival of the fittest.
When there is an epidemic of bed wetting in an institution, it doesn’t take a medical expert to realise what was going on.
We were, like the Good Lord, being crucified and made a mockery of, and no one came to our rescue.
Peter denied knowing Christ. We were denied all along the line.
Remember I have not mentioned the unmentionable, sexual abuse.
Through our sufferings they crucified again the Son of Man and made a mockery of Him. Why?
The full brunt of Man’s inhumanity was visited on Christ, but out of it came our Redemption.
This foreshadows what happened to us, and for that reason, what happened to Jesus strikes a deep chord in our hearts.
—————————————
Is there Light at the end of the tunnel?
There can be, but only if the perpetrators of our misery answer our humble plea for Atonement.
They must ask us for forgiveness, and we will forgive; they must also ask our Heavenly Father for the same thing, as Jesus did, on the grounds ‘that they knew not what they did’.
But insofar as they did know, we are asking from the State, the Irish people, the Religious Congregations and the Catholic Church itself for a “National Annual Day of Atonement”, where all of the perpetrators together, according to their lights, ask our forgiveness, and the forgiveness especially of those who are in various degrees of trauma, physical pain and feel excluded from the mainstream of Irish life, as a result of what was inflicted on them.
We must not forget the ones who did not survive; there are little, mostly unmarked graves dotted around our beautiful island, from Letterfrack, all the way around to Artane, containing the remains of gentle souls, who could not survive another day of not being loved. They ‘fear no more the heat of the sun or the furious winter rages.’
The Irish people pride themselves on being compassionate, sensitive and generous. I believe they are.
But they must prove this now and grasp with both hands this notion of an Annual Day of Atonement, when all the victims of Industrial Schools will be remembered and honored, and which will be an everlasting annual reminder for everyone, that such disgraceful treatment of the weakest in our society, must never again be allowed to happen.
The Popes Pastoral letter of March 2010, and the Pastoral Response of the Irish Bishops a year later, concentrate almost totally on Counseling and Acts of Reparation, which will be helpful in healing our minds and renewing our souls.
Prayers and spiritual exercises may bring comfort to survivors on the street, living rough, addicted to drugs and maimed in heart and mind and body; but their needs extend into the physical domain and they still fear the heat of the sun, the winter storms and all the horribleness life continues to throw at them. They need shelter, food, medical care, and friendship, not generally available to them on whatever mean streets they have washed up on.
So we ask, implore our Mother Church, the Religious Congregations, and the Irish Missionary Union to help us help those who live on the streets.
Please help us to bring home our wounded of heart and broken of spirit.
Help us to bring them back to their homeland from wherever they may be.
Help us by giving spiritual, financial, social and neighborly support to a project we started a year ago in Midleton, namely ‘Sunlight Housing Foundation’.
This project has been financed out of our own pockets; we are at present housing ten survivors, and have a waiting list of 14. But without support from the State and Church, this project will have to be abandoned at the end of this year.
Please help us to help them live out the rest of their days in dignity, comfort and peace. It is a small price for a Church or Nation to pay, to reverse and undo the damage done to those innocents.
It could be a Sign, if only a tiny one, that the nettle has been finally grasped, by those Christians who should have done better.
It could be a sign that these Christians finally realise that ‘what you do, to the least of these, my brethren, you do it to me’.
‘Go raibh miele maith agat’.
Christopher Heaphy
If you support our humble plea for an “Annual National Day of Atonement” then please send an email to: – irishdayofatonement@gmail.com. Your message of support will be delivered to Government and Church.
Your message might include the following:-
“Supporting an Annual National Day of Atonement, to Honor the Children of the Industrial Schools”.
Thank you.
Lets put a stop to this group, once and for all.
We have been campaigning against these groups, who (Claim) to be working in the interests of Survivors now for years. How far have we got? (Nowhere) Why? Because the Government, and the HSE who keep these groups in funding, simply refuse to listen to anyone, only the (So Called democratically elected few) and NOT to the Survivor. FACT.
When are we as Survivors going to call a halt to all of this? How long more are we going to listen to the likes of (Right of Place Second Chance) dictate to us, and who (Claim) to speak on behalf of, and represent (1,750) Survivors?
All we seem to do is moan about these Parasites, but we Never do anything about it. But we as Survivors seem to allow this, why? Because we just couldn’t be bothered, as we are all so fed up listening to the same old waffle these Highwaymen dish out on their Pathetic Web-Site, and we get bored. That’s why.
Why cant we All as Survivors get together, and speak as one voice to the people who Fund these people, and TELL them how we feel, and how fed up we all are of this group (Right of Place Second Chance) who do Nothing for anyone, but themselves?
We all need to voice our opinions to the main Funder of this group the HSE, you can do this by sending me your concerns regarding this group, or any other group you trust, for that matter.
There is No point in complaining to (Right of Place Second Chance) because this is as far as it will go. They will do as they always do, which is (BIN IT)
Send your concerns to me personally if you wish, and I WILL assure you that your concerns WILL be delivered to the HSE Personally on your behalf.
If any Survivor who feels this way, I would ask them to write, or email me at the email I will supply below, or if they prefer, to write or email their representatives, so we can Amass a log of complaints, and bring them to the organisations who fund this Illegal group. We have had our fill of these people.
The more we ignore these Parasites, the longer they will prey on vulnerable Survivors. We are all aware that this group does nothing for anyone but themselves.
They tell us they don’t get paid? Do you believe this? Some of them maybe, but did they ever tell you about their generous expenses? I bet not.
Why does Mr Walsh (Chairman) need to drive from Waterford to Cork (3) times a week? I believe the travelling expenses for this trip is €200 per trip, now it could be more.
Not bad for someone who is unemployed, and yet does nothing. Wouldn’t mind a job like that myself. And then you have Junior, a (So Called) Outreach officer with more titles after his name than Idi Amin. Wonder where he came by them? The Internet perhaps?
I ask all Survivors who like me have had their fill of this group to put pen to paper now, and we can for once hit back at this Illegal Arrogant Mob, and put a stop to their antics, now, and forever.
We Can do this if we stand together, send out the message to every Survivor you can, and lets get the ball rolling. We have All had our fill of these Gangsters and its high time we all told them where to go.
They are chasing now for positions on the new Trust Fund Board of Directors. Its up to all of us to ensure they Do Not get their greedy hands on this new fund.
We Can eliminate this group, by sticking together, what have we got to lose?
To contact me, moss-1@live.co.uk
This was posted by Mosse, but’s it’s under the wrong thread. Perhaps it should be re posted to it’s correct place, so if people would like to sign the petition they can see this, also may be an idea to link the petiton to this page so they can know where to go
Celebs join bid to halt ‘insulting’ memorial
A CAMPAIGN to block an “offensive” €500,000 state memorial to victims of residential abuse has attracted a string of high-profile signatories.
Almost 300 people — including Oscar-winning actress Brenda Fricker, historian Diarmaid Ferriter and Bruce Arnold, author of the industrial school critique ‘The Irish Gulag’ — have lent their names to a petition to be handed to Taoiseach Enda Kenny.
Those behind the ‘stop the memorial’ campaign say the proposal is premature and insulting, considering that the fallout from revelations about clerical sex abuse is ongoing.
The state memorial plan follows a recommendation in the 2009 Ryan Report to erect a monument with the wording of former Taoiseach Bertie Ahern’s apology in 1999.
The successful bid for the contract is due to be announced next month. It was commissioned for €500,000 by the Department of Education and administered by the Office of Public Works (OPW).
But UCD modern historian Diarmaid Ferriter said: “The idea of a monument might be good for people who want to draw a line under this — but it’s something of an insult too for those who are still dealing with the horrific things that have happened to them.”
Neither the OPW nor the Department of Education would comment last night.
– Mark Hilliard
Princes of church
In considering the cry for the resignation of Cardinal Brady, one has to distinguish between deliberate, culpable actions and actions issuing from incompetence.
Clearly, it is mainly through incompetence that Catholic bishops have done irreparable damage to the church. It will not matter much if all or none of them resign. What will matter is if we see the church unchanged in its perception of its role and in the manner in which it conducts its relationships with its priests and its people, and in the way that bishops are appointed.
The church in Ireland can never return to its former glory; it would be in nobody’s interests if it did. The organisation of the church under current hierarchical arrangements is clearly dysfunctional and no longer fit for purpose. Sadly, there are already some hints that the central organisation in Rome will redouble its efforts as it steadily loses sight of its aims.
Bishops on appointment usually talk about how unworthy they are of the post. If this is a genuine feeling it should be sufficient indication that they may have been ill-advised to have accepted the offer from Rome in the first place but, being human, they may have been tempted by the lure of status and power.
The bishops, with a few inspiring exceptions, have been their own worst enemies in adopting an aloof, impersonal and judgmental approach to their role. The complexity and remoteness of the church as an organisation, in which the bishops collude, has taken us a long way from the humanity and inspiration of the life of Christ.
The people are crying out to be led by systems of insight and inspiration and not by systems of power and control. The absurd emphasis on a form of servile obedience has led to a destructive form of deference.
The critical voice of the people has been weakened through the impediments of hierarchy, formality and status consciousness. In any hierarchical institution, wisdom does not trickle down easily from the top and is unwelcome from below. To be effective, leaders must be close to those who are led, listening to and responding to their voice. The membership of the church is teeming with good faith, desperate for Rome to awaken from its dogmatic slumber and be seriously attentive to those loyal members who are willing to plod on.
The church tends to see itself as the official receiver of revelation which is transmitted hierarchically. The function of the institution must surely be to tap into the lives of those who seek to live the way Christ did. It is to listen to the people it purports to serve, whose voices could not be clearer. The bishops seem to be taking comfort in the forlorn hope that eventually these voices will fall silent or, in the case of priests, be silenced.
Philip O’Neill
Edith Road, Oxford
If only the Archbishop of Dublin, Diarmuid Martin, had said: “I know it’s not fashionable today to talk about commissions but I do really believe that an independent commission of investigation into the activities of the Catholic hierarchy, in both the Vatican and in Ireland, into how the abuse was allowed to continue so long, would be in the public interest so that the full story would come out.” (“Cardinal reflects on future amid ‘cover-up’ claims”, Irish Independent, May 7).
Dr John Doherty
Gaoth Dobhair, Co Donegal
Irish Independent
Celebs join bid to halt ‘insulting’ memorial
A CAMPAIGN to block an “offensive” €500,000 state memorial to victims of residential abuse has attracted a string of high-profile signatories.
Almost 300 people — including Oscar-winning actress Brenda Fricker, historian Diarmaid Ferriter and Bruce Arnold, author of the industrial school critique ‘The Irish Gulag’ — have lent their names to a petition to be handed to Taoiseach Enda Kenny.
Those behind the ‘stop the memorial’ campaign say the proposal is premature and insulting, considering that the fallout from revelations about clerical sex abuse is ongoing.
The state memorial plan follows a recommendation in the 2009 Ryan Report to erect a monument with the wording of former Taoiseach Bertie Ahern’s apology in 1999.
The successful bid for the contract is due to be announced next month. It was commissioned for €500,000 by the Department of Education and administered by the Office of Public Works (OPW).
But UCD modern historian Diarmaid Ferriter said: “The idea of a monument might be good for people who want to draw a line under this — but it’s something of an insult too for those who are still dealing with the horrific things that have happened to them.”
Neither the OPW nor the Department of Education would comment last night.
– Mark Hilliard
Tom Barry said the ongoing fallout from the Church’s handling of the paedophile priest Brendan Smyth showed how “very, very poorly” it had dealt with the abuse issue as a whole.
Mr Barry said: “All that can be done at this stage is redress to the victims. Dealing with that, and sorting that situation out, would show a penance on behalf of the Church. The problem is, that has not occurred.”
He said the Church would “continue to be embroiled in controversy unless they wrap up each situation as they meet it”, with redress central to the process.
“The victims were absolutely treated horribly. We’ve seen it in the Cloyne report and others. The Church needs to pay those victims.”
Mr Barry, himself a weekly churchgoer, said the case could be made for re-opening the embassy if and when the Church had fully addressed the issue of compensation.
“But until that happens, I don’t see any need to open it again. The crimes that hKave been committed against children are absolutely horrible.”
His position appears noticeably different to some of his Fine Gael colleagues who have supported the reopening of the embassy without setting any preconditions.
Mr Barry said the Vatican was a “very wealthy state” and had the resources to pay compensation to victims of abuse.
“I don’t particularly mind where it comes from, as long as there isn’t a second collection in the churches to pay for it.
“The suggestion of a second collection in the churches, to me, would only re-victimise, if I could use that phrase, the victims.”
He acknowledged that the Vatican, like any state, needed significant revenues to function, but said there appeared to be too much of a focus on wealth.
“The Vatican has the resources to provide the monies to these victims… But the Church itself should not be concerned about wealth.
“Our Lord walked this world with hardly any worldly possessions on him. And it appears to me that there’s a huge concentration on wealth.”
The Church last year announced a €10m fund over five years for an expanded counselling service for survivors of abuse, on top of €20m already spent over previous years on such services.
Separately, the 18 religious orders involved in the State redress scheme for survivors of institutional abuse have committed to contributing cash and property with a combined value of €473.5m.
However, the State is seeking further contributions, as it wants to split the cost of the scheme, which is now set to exceed €1.36bn, on a 50-50 basis.
That would mean the orders agreeing to contribute over €200m more.
Read more: http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/redress-victims-before-embassy-reopens-193092.html#.T6gdQ-m1ASA.email#ixzz1uDI9qgwt
Statutory Trust Fund Bill to be read this 8th to 10th May source @PaddyGodSquad http://bit.ly/HPDujM If you have never sent an email to TD’s before now is the time to urge them to vote down this Bill!
To use a trusted bulk emailer that will send your email to all TD’s Click http://bit.ly/IentBC
Archbishop calls for sex abuse inquiry
By Noel Baker
Monday, May 07, 2012
Archbishop of Dublin Diarmuid Martin yesterday called for an independent international commission of inquiry to be established into the crimes of the late Brendan Smyth.
His suggestion came as Cardinal Seán Brady continued to face criticism over his role in an early Church investigation into Smyth’s activities in the 1970s.
Since the airing of a BBC documentary last week, in which Cardinal Brady’s role in the investigation was scrutinised, he has come under increasing pressure to step down.
Yesterday, the Sunday Times reported that an unidentified victim of Smyth’s claimed that Smyth used to visit St Patrick’s College in Cavan even after the then-Fr Brady had been told of the abuse of Brendan Boland, the subject of the BBC documentary.
Mr Boland was then a pupil at the school, while Cardinal Brady taught at St Patrick’s at the time.
A spokesman for Cardinal Brady said: “He never met [Smyth] or spoke to him.”
Archbishop Martin said yesterday the victims of abuse were owed an inquiry and that it would be better for the full story to emerge “and not bits and pieces”.
The secular inquiry would work north and south with Church and State, he told RTÉ, adding that while the idea of commissions was “not fashionable”, it was necessary as the Smyth story was “of such a dimension”.
Tánaiste Eamon Gilmore described it as an interesting proposal and said: “I would be supportive of anything that would help in this.”
Yesterday, Bishop of Ardagh and Clonmacnoise Colm O’Reilly said the interview methods used by Cardinal Brady during the investigation into child sexual abuse by Smyth were “bizarre”.
The BBC documentary outlined how child victims alleging abuse by Smyth were interviewed in private, away from their parents.
Smyth’s victims have said Cardinal Brady could have done more to ensure Smyth was brought to justice or removed from positions in which he had contact with children far sooner.
On RTÉ’s This Week yesterday, Bishop O’Reilly said the children should not have been interviewed in private, but he questioned whether the authorities here would have “been able to take on that challenge” of dealing with Smyth.
However, while he said Smyth being allowed to continue to practise was “an appalling outcome”, he also claimed Cardinal Brady should not have to step down, as he had acted in good faith and had done what was required of him at the time.
He said Cardinal Brady would not want the issue to “simmer on” and believed he will “act in accordance with his own conscience”.
Yesterday, the Catholic Communications Office said Cardinal Brady had offered to meet Mr Boland, whom he interviewed as a teenager in the 1970s, to apologise.
It is understood Mr Boland wants a public apology, which has not been forthcoming.
Bishop O’Reilly said he was unsure why there was a reluctance to issue a public apology. “I don’t know what is necessary to bridge that gap,” he said.
Read more: http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/archbishop-calls-for-sex-abuse-inquiry-193106.html#ixzz1uAvCHMFz
MOSSIE YOU KNOW YOU WERE NOT GOING TO GET A REPLY
OR A STATMEMT FROM ROP OR MSSS,
ALL THEY WANT IS MONEY MONEY MONEY FOR THEIR
OWN COFFERS AND THEN DRAIN THE MONEY AWAY IN WAGES AND EXPENSES LIKE THEY HAVE BEEN DOING
ALL ALONG.
ROP HAVE MORE OFFICES THAN THE UNITED NATIONS
THE TWO WALSHES AND TREANOR ARE MAKING A FORTUNE
ON EXPENSES TRAVELING TO AND FROM THESE OFFICES.
IS IT NOT STRANGE WE NEVER GET THEIR WAGES AND EXPENSES ON THEIR ANNUAL AGM REPORT JUST A LOAD OF RUBBISH FROM TREANOR WITH HIS LEGAL JARGON AND LIES BUT MARK MY WORDS JUSTICE IS ON THE WAY.WE
HAVE BEEN LIED AND ROBBED OF OUR RIGHTS LONG ENOUGH.
Protest Held Today outside Dail Eireann, 10th April 2010.
I seem to recall, not so long ago when the group (Right of Place Second Chance) clearly stated that they were the only group fighting against the Statutory Trust Fund. I have always had my doubts, and suspicions about this statement.
On today, Thursday the 3rd of April at approx 10 oclock Mr Tom Cronin, and his Brother, after travelling all the way from Cork, was outside of Dail Eireann, protesting against the implementation to this New Trust Fund. He was accompanied by his Brother Paul, and also met up with them were, Mr John Kelly, (SOCA) and Mr Vincent Hackett.
They said it was a good day overall, and even managed to meet with about (40) TD’s during the day.
They spoke about having a choice on how this Unjust Statutory Trust Fund ought to be distributed.
Those Survivors who wished to have a lump sum paid to them by this Fund, should be accommodated, and their wishes should be honored.
Those Survivors who’s choice it was to have a pension, should have their wishes granted, if that was what they wanted.
We do NOT need politicians, and this government telling Survivors what they will, or wont have, this IS a choice for the Individual Survivor, and NOT the Group Leaders, or the Government Tom stated.
A meeting was held a few days earlier in Cork to highlight this event, where Tom told a small gathering of his intentions. A couple of group personnel attended this meeting.
A member of the group (Munster Survivors Support Services) accepted this would be a very good idea. When asked if they could possibly get some people from this group to support the event, the group leader said He would get back to him.
Mr Cronin, the following day called the coordinator of the group (Right of Place Second Chance) Mr Francis Treanor, if possibly they could afford some assistance from this group to support this worthy cause. Again Mr Treanor said, he would need to put it to Mr Walsh, (Chairman) of (Right of Place Second Chance) Needless to say, Tom is Still waiting for a reply from (BOTH) of these groups.
This leaves me to believe what i have been saying all along from day one, that these groups, telling Survivors they are acting in their interests, fighting Against this Trust Fund, were not telling the truth, right from the very start.
If they had the Survivors interests at heart, they would have been up in Dublin today, Thursday the 10th April, lending their true support to Tom Cronin, and the Survivors who came to assist him in his efforts to have this Unjust, Unaccepted, and Unlawful, Trust Fund Revisited. Something these group Leaders were Supposed to be doing.
I would like personally, to thank Tom, and his collegues who found the time to travel today to Dublin, and speak for the Survivors who wish to have their say in the way this Trust Fund should be distributed.
As for (Right of Place Second Chance) and (MSSS) all i have to say to these people is, you ought to be thoroughly ashamed of yourselves. Call yourself group leaders? This is your job, after all. ROP you are being funded for your (So Called Membership) but you are doing Nothing for them. You’re Dispicable.
We can ALL clearly see now, who is working for the Survivor, and who is not. But then again lads, we Always knew this from the very start, did’nt we? You may be fooling most of your (So Called Membership) but you are NOT fooling us.
No one from (Right of Place Second Chance) or from (MSSS) bothered their Blarney to attend this important gathering today, or even bothered to send a representative body in their absence. This speaks volumes to me.
This Proves to me, that (Right of Place Second Chance) and any other group that have been telling Survivors that they were fighting this New Trust Fund, WAS NOT giving the right information from the very start.
I wonder, what type of excuses we will hear from these Groups now, for their absence from such an important event?? It should make for very interesting reading.
These groups Never Have, and Never Will help Survivors, and i ask the HSE, and any other organisation that continue to fund these Parasites to STOP this waste of Taxpayers money once and for all. How many times must we spell it out.
Dail protest, 10.30 Thursday 03/05/2012.
Mr Tom Cronin, tomorrow morning goes to protest outside the Dail at 10.30, in regard to the Government’s blatant intentions to push through the New Trust Fund. A Trust Fund which almost ALL Survivors are completely against.
The government states it has listened to Survivors views regarding this Trust Fund.
What it has done is listened to the views of the groups, who purport to speak on behalf of Survivors, and has NOT asked (1) Survivor what they wanted. They went through this process only for the purpose of saying, we asked everyone for their opinion, but was NOT going to listen which or whether.
The leader of the group MSSS, was asked by Tom, if they would be supporting this protest, and maybe have some members present outside the Dail on the day. He was informed by the leader of MSSS, that it was a good idea, and told Tom he would get back to him on the matter.
The following day, Tom also called the Outreach Coordinator for (Right of Place Second Chance) Mr Francis Treanor to inform him of his intentions also, and Mr Treanor replied, he would have to pass it by the (Chairman) of the group Mr Michael Walsh, who also replied he would get back to him.
Well, tomorrow, we will see for ourselves, whether or not these two group leaders are really, for this Trust Fund, or Against it. Their attendance, or their Absence im sure will speak for itself.
We Will be watching
I saw a journalist on you tube trying to ask him about this matter. he replied that he dident have the time as he was going to say mass. its another case of laws for the nuns and priests arent the same as the rest of us . he wasent in any state of grace nor has he been since he decided to ignore the whole problem. when he knew of the dangerous situation children were living in. he told the bishop and thats all he did. mr brady all by himself is enough to put anyone off religion. I find him disgusting and feel no respect for him at all. there are good and bad people everywhere but many of the baddies make a life for themselves in the catholic church.he represents this church so there isint any sincerity in his preaching. do what you are told to do and dont question me thats his message.
Cardinal Brady statement expected later after abuse-information allegations
Wednesday, May 02, 2012 – 08:37 AM
Cardinal Sean Brady is expected to give a statement later about claims in a BBC documentary that he failed to act in 1975 to save children from being abused by paedophile priest Fr Brendan Smyth.
The ‘This World’ programme found that Cardinal Brady, the a recorder of evidence at a secret internal church inquiry in 1975, had the names and addresses of children who were suspected of being abused.
But the programme found no action was taken against the paedophile at the time, and for some of the children the abuse allegedly continued for years after.
The hour-long programme, aired last night, included evidence from Brendan Boland, who had been abused during the 1970s.
At the age of 14, he was the first child to tell his parents he was being abused. He also gave the secret inquiry a list of other children he believed were victims.
“There was a boy from Belfast, I gave his name and address,” said Mr Boland in the documentary.
“A girl from Belfast, I gave her name and address. A girl from Cavan, I gave her name and address. Another boy from Cavan, I gave his name and address. And there was another boy who was his friend.”
Mr Boland said he had witnessed one of the boys being abused and was told by another that he had been a victim too.
In 1975, Cardinal Brady was a priest and a teacher in Co Cavan when he was sent to investigate the sex abuse claims.
The BBC documentary claimed he passed the evidence on to the then bishop, but no action was carried out against Smyth.
A statement is expected from Cardinal Brady later today.
Details of the secret 1975 inquiry were unearthed previously, but the fact that Cardinal Brady had names and addresses of possible victims only emerged in last night’s documentary.
The Primate of all-Ireland had previously claimed he would resign if he were to have failed to act upon allegations of sex abuse.
“I would remember that child abuse is a very serious crime in civil and canon law,” Cardinal Brady said previously.
“It is a grave sin. If I was aware my failure to act had allowed or meant future children were abused, I think I would resign.”
Survivors call for reopening of Redress Board
by Rebekah Commane
MONDAY, 30 APRIL 2012 18:15
SURVIVORS of institutional abuse are calling for the reopening of The Redress Board and for more transparency on plans for a €110 million trust fund. The Right of Place/Second Chance Group believes that many people were not ready to come forward to the Board and apply for compensation while it was open, but they may now want to do so. In its recently published annual report, the group also called on the government to publish plans for the trust fund contributed to by 18 religious congregations. Right of Place/Second Chance Outreach Co-ordinator for HSE West, Val Groarke, said the group is worried that the government are dragging their feet in coming up with criteria for recipients of the fund.
He urged the government to supplement the fund on an annual basis to allow survivors who have not yet come forward, to access it.
“I believe that there are a lot of people out there who didn’t get the redress,” Mr. Groarke told the Limerick Post.
“Because the government had it shut down, we’re pushing for them to reopen it and leave it open for another few years.
“Just because some of us were ready, it doesn’t mean that everyone was”.
He said that while some survivors of institutional abuse in Limerick may have received compensation from the Redress Board, the damage inflicted continues to resonate.
Mr. Groarke also called for the children of survivors to be able to access the Trust fund, explaining that what happened to survivors also affected the quality of lives of their families.
The Galway/Limerick and western offices of the support group were contacted by clients 693 times from March 2011 to February 2012, and in one-fifth of these incidents, approaches were made by the dependent of a survivor.
“Money doesn’t give you back what you lost, like an education,” Mr. Groarke continued.
“A huge amount of our people have not worked for most of their lives and a lot would have got ‘low class’ jobs.
“A lot of survivors wouldn’t be able to read or write”.
Right of Place offers outreach and support to survivors in education, health, housing, employment, welfare, social issues and much more.
“If they have a problem we want them to know that there is a service here. They can just lift the phone”.
The Right of Place Limerick office is based in the Friends of the Elderly premises Carey’s Road, and is open to anyone who wishes to avail of its support
Meetings are held on Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday mornings and are open to all to call in for a cup of tea and a chat.
^
Letter, Re Protest to be held outside the Dail.
OUR MONIES
A Protest meeting is being organised shortly, and will be held outside The Dail. This protest is in regard to the New Statutory Trust Fund, and the way this government refuses to listen to the voices of Survivors of Institutional Abuse, and their concerns about the way (Survivors) money will be distributed.
We urge All Survivors to support this very just cause, and to voice your OWN opinions on HOW YOUR MONEY should be distributed. Come out, and protest with us, it may well be our Last Chance. Don’t let this government tell us HOW to spend OUR OWN MONEY.
Please watch this Site for further details, and updates regarding this protest.
^
^
This posting should have been added to the above comment.
Letter, Re Protest to be held outside the Dail.
OUR MONIES
A Protest meeting is being organised by Mr, Tom Cronin shortly, and will be held outside The Dail. This protest is in regard to the New Statutory Trust Fund, and the way this government refuses to listen to the voices of Survivors of Institutional Abuse, and their concerns about the way (Survivors) money will be distributed.
We urge All Survivors to support this very just cause, and to voice your OWN opinions on HOW YOUR MONEY should be distributed. Come out, and protest with us, it may well be our Last Chance. Don’t let this government tell us HOW to spend OUR OWN MONEY.
Please watch this Site for further details, and updates regarding this protest.
Please click on the file below to read the Letter, thank you.
Irish Survivors of Institutional Abuse International.
Email: thomascronin@yahoo.com
The Minister for Education will shortly bring a bill before the House “The Trust Fund for the Survivors of Institutional Abuse”. This bill in it’s present form should be voted down. In our experience speaking to survivors, they have requested a lump sum to be paid to them directly. However, the Department of Education have, in it’s wisdom, decided that this is not best for survivors.
In our opinion there should be three options available:
(1) Those that want the trust fund should have it
(2) Those that need a lump sum should have it
(3) Those that request a pension, which is what we encourage,
should be facilitated. This would be self financing and could
be run with the minimum of administration, and costs.
The handling of this whole sorry mess by the Department has been a disaster from the start.
• The failed Laffoy Commission due to the lack of cooperation
from the Department.
• The Ryan Report: Cost €78 Million, none of the many
recommendations have been implemented to date.
• The Redress Board: a harrowing experience for the
survivors with awards that were derisory.
• The Education Fund: a straitjacket effort to offer some sort
of formal education to elderly people, when it was obvious that a
more liberal set up was required.
• The funding of certain support groups to the tune of €35 Million, this
money was given willie nillie to those who supported only
themselves.
Now we have the New Trust Fund.
• The new Trust Fund, which is being funded by the eighteen Religious
orders involved in the institutions which amounts to €450 Million to the
trust Fund, the balance being siphoned off for some other project
without the consent of the Survivors.
If you require more information, contact me at mobile (087-9304976)
Yours, Tom Cronin.
36 Barret’s Buildings,
Off blarney Street,
Cork City,
Ireland.
Tel: 00353 21 2393311
Mob: 00353 87 9304976
Membership of Right Of Place Second Chance
A letter has been sent out within the last few days by, (Right of Place Second Chance) to Survivors. They claim to be updating their Database membership with this group, (Right of Place Second Chance) A lot of Survivors will receive this letter today.
It is important to note the heading which states, (Dear Survivor)
Which clearly shows, they are not talking to a member. They are talking to a Survivor, whos’e details, and name’s they have already obtained from God Knows where.
This is a very very Crafty, and Cunning move by someone in (Right of Place) and i can well guess WHO, to Con the Survivor into thinking he must update his information for the records of this ( ILLEGAL GROUP.)
If you WERE a member, the heading would have clearly stated, (Dear Member) It was a very DEVIOUS way of getting the Vunerable Survivor to give his , or Her, details to this Controversial group in a very Sneaky way.
If you are in any doubt about giving your personal details, and your name to this ILLEGAL group, i strongly URGE you, NOT to fill in any forms that are distributed by this, or ANY group.
By filling out these forms, you are Legally giving this group, (Right of Place Second Chance) permission to have, and hold your personal details on their Database, and this group WILL use this information to apply to the various Fundmasters for continuing Funding.
They already know the problems relating to the Database they are using since the reign of Mr Noel C Barry, and the person who Compiled this ILLEGAL Database with him in the first place, and we already have a pretty good idea WHO this person is.
They say the reason for completing these Membership Forms is to ensure that they have your correct details on each Survivor.
If you receive their letter, then they Obviously HAVE your correct details, whether it be ILLEGAL or NOT. So if this is the case, you do NOT need to fill in the form. Do NOT be taken in by these people, under ANY circumstances, and do NOT fill these forms.
What these people in (Right of Place Second Chance) are doing is, updating an existing ILLEGAL Database they have been using, and took over from Mr Noel C Barry when he was ousted some time ago, and anyone who signs these forms are Legalising what these Parasites are doing. Please do NOT be fooled.
They go on to talk about running an Exhibition in their next paragraph, only to try and get your mind off the main issue which is your permission in writing, and complying with their request. Do NOT fill out these forms.
Do NOT give over your details, or names to these people, as what they are doing is Legalising a Database which IS already ILLEGAL.
Ask yourself also, since this group has been established, What have they done for you? What have they done for anybody? Have you ever heard anything good about what they do, or have done? Have you ever heard of anything they have done for Any Survivor?
I would safely say, the answer to ALL of these questions is NO. You will get NO help from these people, and all they are interested in now at this point is the New Statutory Fund, and how much Funding they can extract from it. The Educational Fund is almost depleted, and they are now looking toward the next phase of Funding. And you may be well assured, IF the funding to this group is continued, the Survivor will NOT benefit one Penny from it, but instead, the money will be channeled towards the expenses these people claim every month. Bet they will not tell you about that?
They will not want their Funding cut, and will want it to continue, this is their next goal. They are ALL sitting pretty so far, lets all put a stop to in NOW, once and for all.
Below, is a letter from Mr Oliver Burke, Chairman of the group (Munster Survivors Support Services) A letter which Mr Burke sent to the Chairman of the group (Right of Peace) where Mr Burke formally invites Mr O Brien, and a collegue, to attend a special Mass of Remembrance, and Reconciliation of all Survivors of Child Abuse in Ireland.
Is this a Mass i ask you Mr Burke for your selected few, or is it a Mass for Survivors?
I would also like to ask Mr Burke, where did you get the Funding from to hold such a Mass, as we all know only too well, something on this scale is (NOT CHEAP?)
I recall not so long ago sir, where you were collecting from your various sources, with Hill Climbing, and Survivors and their famalies, bucket collecting for you down in Kerry, and selling T/Shirts. Somehow i dont think your collections would have amassed the funding needed to hold such a Mass, with so many Dignitries.
I would like you to ask you Mr Burke, to confirm if you have sent out such invitations to ( ALL SURVIVORS) especially all those Survivors who YOU claim to represent? I trust this is NOT too difficult a task to ask. Thank you.
Priests warn Vatican over move to censor Flannery
Posted by Maurice Heaphy on April 11, 2012 at 1:49 in Religious Orders
View Discussions
09/04/2012 – 14:10:50
An 800-strong group of Irish priests has said it is disturbed over the Vatican’s silencing of one of its members for his liberal views.
The Association of Catholic Priests has warned that forcing Father Tony Flannery to stop writing for a Redemptorist magazine will fuel belief of a disconnect between Irish Catholics and Rome.
“We believe that such an approach, in its individual focus on Fr Flannery and inevitably by implication on the members of the association, is an extremely ill-advised intervention in the present pastoral context in Ireland,” the group said.
“We wish to make clear our profound view that this intervention is unfair, unwarranted and unwise.”
Fr Flannery, a founder of the association, has had his monthly column with the religious publication Reality pulled on orders from Rome.
A second priest, Father Gerard Moloney, the magazine’s editor, has been ordered to stop writing on certain issues.
Both priests hold liberal views on contraception, celibacy and women priests.
At least a dozen priests had already publicly declared support for Fr Flannery and Fr Moloney in messages on the association’s website.
In a strongly-worded statement, the group said Fr Flannery’s writings should not be seen as an attack on or rejection of the fundamental teachings of the church but a reflection on issues surfacing in parishes nationwide.
It said they also reject their portrayal in some circles as a “small coterie of radical priests with a radical agenda”.
“Accordingly, we wish to register our extreme unease and disquiet at the present development, not least the secrecy surrounding such interventions and the questions about due process and freedom of conscience that such interventions surface,” the group said.
“At this critical juncture in our history, the ACP believes that this form of intervention – what Archbishop Diarmuid Martin recently called ‘heresy-hunting’ – is of no service to the Irish Catholic Church and may have the unintended effect of exacerbating a growing perception of a significant ‘disconnect’ between the Irish Church and Rome.”
Fr Flannery, who has written on religious matters in the Redemptorist magazine for 14 years, is under investigation by the Vatican over his views.
As well as expressing opposition to the church’s ban on contraception and women priests, Fr Flannery publicly backed Taoiseach Enda Kenny’s unprecedented attack on the Catholic hierarchy in the aftermath of the Cloyne Report last year.
In a Holy Thursday homily at St Peter’s Basilica in Rome, Pope Benedict warned that the church will not tolerate priests speaking out against Catholic teaching.
Has anyone read the recent posting by Right of Place Re their report for the last year?
What a total load of Bull***t to publish. I wonder how much it cost to produce such a load of Rubbish?
Who paid for it i wonder? you may be sure it was not Right of Place, more Vunerable Survivors money from the funding received by this Controversial, and Disgraced group?
They then had the nerve to go on National Television last week to ask the government to reveal the details of the New Trust Fund.
What business is it of their’s? Absolutely
NONE. These MUPPETS never were against this Trust Fund, because it would have cut the funding to these Parasites, who for years have creamed off the Vunerable Survivors. Who do they think they are Bluffing.
I suppose this is all the work of this Idiot Treanor,the Mouthpiece of Right of Place, now, and past.
We Will catch up on you lot in there, sooner or later. We promise you this. You Will answer to the Survivor’s eventually.
You may be well assured Pauline, that ALL of these groups WILL have signed up to this Statutory Fund. If they did not, then they would be very very foolish, as this fund will be giving money to these groups again, in OUR names, just as before.
So ANY group that tells you that they are working Against the New Trust Fund, IS LYING. It’s plain common sense they are NOT going to cut off the hand that feeds them. This is Plain Common Sense.
The same applies to Christine Buckley, as the rest of these groups. She, and the rest of these groups, are ALL in favor of this Fund, as they will ALL be kept in well paid Expenses for a few more years.
They could NOT, and never have give a damn for ANY Survivor. When will Survivors ever see this??
Havent many group leaders signed the petition against the fund. So how come and when did thay chat with the minister. He says that thay agreed with what he now proposes. But what has changed if anything.A few months ago only Christine Buckley wanted this fund.
Margaret Kennedy
Vatican visitation report a whitewash. I am compiling a questionnaire for victims/survivors, on the ‘attention, care, support’ they have received from church authorities. should be ready soon.
And, any Survivors want to fill out contact me. visitation said ‘much attention and care given to victims’….first i heard of it!
It’s Pathetic Monica, thats the only way i can describe that, simply Pathetic.
Can you see anybody interested in a Choir? Don’t think so. I don’t blame this person for trying, but cannot see this happening.
I also see ROP has yet to reopen its forum as they said they would.
Where have they all gone? They must be preparing the next batch of Bull, for the end of the month.
Their site was to be down for 48hrs in the most. It’s almost two months now.
They have said Nothing about this Mass they organized. Must have been a complete Flop. We have another Mob having another one said soon in Cork, taking over from the last Mob. i wonder WHERE all the money came to organize this one?? I could well guess.
We will wait in Anticipation, to see what the next SCAM will be.
TWO GROUPS COMPETE FOR FUNDING FROM THE BISHOPS
Two Masse’s are to be said this month by a collection of Bishops…….Yet
These same Bishops refuse charity to the most Destitute of Survivors on the streets,…………..FACT.
Leaders of these So Called Groups,………..(Right of Place Second Chance) (Michael Walsh)……….and another New controversial group, are begging Bishops on our behalf to celebrate a Mass of Reconciliation.
The reason behind asking the Bishops to celebrate Mass, is NOT one of Reconciliation, but to ask them later for money for funding their Groups.
Noel Barry, (Right of Place) and a former Outreach worker in, (Right of Place, for 10 years) received tens of thousands of Euro’s each year after the celebration of Mass from the Bishops and Religious Orders to help Survivors.
Not a single cent went in Welfare to help ANY Survivor.
Some Group Leaders, ie (Right of Place Second Chance,………&………….another recently formed Cork, Group) are destroying ANY chance survivors have of getting the Church to Atone for the Heinous crimes they have committed.
NOT ONCE, have these self appointed Group Leaders asked Survivors, if they wanted a Mass to be said on their behalf.
IF such a Mass is said, then i Will guarantee that the Church, and Religious Orders Will be paying for it, along with their Tea & Cucumber sandwiches afterwards.
How sick and Cheaply, Michael Walsh, and his Counterpart, Sell the suffering of Survivors, for their own Greedy, Personal gain.
THEY ALL DESERVE UTTER CONTEMPT.
Now BOTH of these groups are trying to outsmart each other. The new group leader, put out his Flier a few days ago, with his intention of holding a Mass in Cork next month.
Not to be outdone, (Right of Place Second Chance) yesterday introduced their OWN Flier promoting Their Mass to be held in Waterford in a couple of days time.
May i remind Mr Micheal Walsh, and the other Fellow, Survivors DO NOT need a Mass to commemorate Deceased Survivors of Institutional abuse. We are quite capable of doing this our own personal way, and have done for years. All you are doing is Appeasing the Bishops, and Clergy, and making them look good. This is NOT what Survivors want.
I’m sure Micheal, Survivors who do attend this Mass will be looking forward to as you so put it, “ Chill out, with their families, and Bishop Lee after the Mass” Your’e pathetic, all of you.
This part Mr Walsh, i find really (AMAZING.) When you were holding your first (AGM) meeting in Waterford , on the 20th December last. We asked if you could supply some type of transport for the Survivors of Cork, Kerry , and surrounding areas, who could NOT afford to attend your ALL so important (AGM) meeting. We got a NEGATIVE response from your group (Right of Place Second Chance) therefore ALLOWING your group to do as they so wished at the (AGM)
You knew only TOO WELL, that by having the Cork Rebels at that (AGM) you ALL in that place in Lower Glanmire Road, would NOW be joining to Dole queue’s and looking for work in Canada, and Australia, which Personally i think is where you all SHOULD be.
Why are you NOW, laying on Transport from Galway to Waterford, when you refused to help a Survivor bury his Mother?
Maybe, you can ask JP, MacManus, for extra funding to help the members who desperately need it?
Found this just posted on ROP. God help us all that’s all I say. Didn’t Christine have a Choir as well? That time up at the Park singing for Mary McAlleese or was she just singing her own praises. Can’t remember must have banged me head when I fell off the chair reading below…
Hi Micheal,
Its been a hectic month as I have been tied up with the repudiate the debt campaign, this means we the Irish people do not own the Anglo Irish Bank [ICBRC]debt we give the EC ECB IMF Troika back this debt.
I was listening to your article on the deise radio programme you were spot on well done Mihael you certainly know what you are talking about you are very good at understanding survivors point of view, I have a few suggestions for you to take to R,O,P to see if they will take these on board.
Based on the Army wives programme on BBC 1 it ran for 9 months from march to dec 2011
1] organise a choir.
2[ the name of this choir shall be called the RHAPOSIDY OF ROP.
3] This choir is open to all survivors and their partners. Male & Female.
4] unlimited numbers the meore the better
5] Each ROP centre would have their own choir for traning and practising.
6] 1 music director and 1 electronic organ and piano player at each ROP centre for traning.
7] 2 hours minimun traning once a week per ROP centre.
8] ROP will need to get a small hall for traning for each centre. If not able ask the local army barracks for free use of a hall.
9] ROP wiil need to cover cost of transport ie bus or train for survivors and refreshment.
Outcome of this idea is to benefit ROP and survivors by makeing them more confident in themselves give them something to look forward to be part of something physical help them to make new friends they will meet new people that have something in common and if it is done right may lead to makeing a music recording and TV appearances and entering competitions all profits from music cd and concerts will be given to the choir after expenses. Best of luck on this new journey you will not be disapointed.
Best Regards to all.
Desmondczn
Reply | Reply with quote | Quote
+2 # Desmond Heeney 2012-03-06 15:12
To All Survivors,
The above mentioned is for survivors, it is in your intrest to contact your nearest Right Of Place centre if you feel this is what you want to participate in this choir, it is for your benefit to bring happiness back into your lives I know because this is missing in my life and I am also a survivor, I do not have any hidden agenda, at the end of the day this cannot happen without you, you will be the guiding force you do not have to have experiance once this has been sanctioned ROP Board and hopfully the ROP centre should start traning you if they sanction this so it is up to survivors to let ROP know this is what you want and let them know this because ROP is there for you it is now a new organisation and im sure they will go by your wish if enough of you want this to happen so contact them I leave it up to you. Regards.
By Breda Heffernan
Saturday March 03 2012
ARCHBISHOP of Dublin Dr Diarmuid Martin will appear on the most popular news programme in the US tomorrow night to claim the Catholic Church in Ireland is at “breaking point”.
In an interview recorded with CBS’s ’60 Minutes’ in Dublin recently, Dr Martin said that, with the church in crisis, now was not the time to forget the scandal of clerical child sex abuse.
Speaking of the state of the church here, he said: “It has reached a breaking point. It is at a very difficult stage.
“There’s a real danger today of people saying the child abuse scandal is over, let’s bury it, let’s move on. It isn’t over, child protection and the protection of children will go on for the rest of our lives and into the future because the problems are there,” he added.
The programme hears how the clerical child sex abuse and its cover-up by church leaders has taken a devastating toll on what was once one of the most Catholic countries in the world.
It says that some parishes, which previously saw attendance rates of 90pc, now have only 2pc of parishioners regularly attending Sunday Mass.
Dr Martin brings interviewer Bob Simon on a tour of his old seminary in Dublin. He speaks about the dramatic decline in vocations and how a country that once produced so many priests it exported them around the world, now does not have enough for its own churches.
“When I entered this building… there were 120 of us, and they were building a new extension. At the moment, I have 10 seminarians,” said Dr Martin as he walked around the Holy Cross College in Clonliffe.
The programme describes Dr Martin as one of the highest-ranking officials to openly criticise the Catholic Church and credits him with “confronting the church head-on” for the behaviour that caused the scandal and its cover-up.
Well after having read about this buisness of reconcilation with the church i am going to try and have my babtism annuled.I dont want anything to do with this. Each of us have to live our lives as we think we should. These Priests and nuns and popes dont care about the victims. I dont want to be one of thier numbers.All that matters is proticole.in the future the children will need a good education. thay arent the best teachers either. too limited by thier own self importance.
The church has not yet made any real efforts towards the victims. These events such as foot washing and bishops lying down on floors is not the way to heal others. As for reconciliation with the church well its a personal decision and not a buisness. in the needs of survivers i have never read of any who would swell the ranks in this mass just to help the church to get over the harm caused by witnesses and survivers. thats really a back to front way of seeing things for a man who wants to run his own little group. dont forget that many family members of the groups also get into these groups. i met a women in Dublin she was the proud mother of 20. of course its her affaire but with so many dependents there is nothing left for the ones who dont have familys.
I’t now seem’s, Mr Oliver Burke, who has set himself up as yet another group……….after he failed to topple his predecessor, Mr Noel C Barry……….. now seem’s to have gone begging to the Church for funding………..on the pretext that the Survivors, now want an Annual “Mass of Reconciliation”.
His Disasterous attempt to raise funds, by asking Survivors, and their Families, to climb Carrontwohill with begging buckets, and have the cheek also to sell Tee Shirts for €15 a head, is nothing short of Piracy.
How LOW, can a person stoop, in the name of MONEY?
It is utterly Contemptable, that he should try and follow in Mr noel C Barry’s shoes, and ask the Church for funding to pay for an Annual Mass, and Banquet afterward’s.
Has this person suddenly forgotten, how much suffering, and pain all Survivors have endured at the hands of the Church?………….And Now…….he want’s Survivors to actually Pray with them, and Dine with them……….and the Church will foot the Bill……..How Sick Is This?
I see also where now, Mr Oliver Burke,s group, are now sending out leaflets to other group leaders, inviting them to attend, this Concelebrated Mass, to be held in Cork shortly.
Funny how this person, who only a short time ago was holding meetings, and asking his (So Called) membership for funding to get his group up and running.
I wonder where he (Suddenly) received funding to organise, and run this event, because you may be assured, it is NOT cheap.
He claims that this Mass was, particulary requested to be put in place by a large number of his members, who were survivors of Institutional Clerical and Foster Care Child abuse.
As a former person who worked for (Years) for the disgraced group (Right of Place) it makes me wonder as to……. (WHERE HE )…….. got all of this (So Called) membership from? Please dont be afraid to…………………… (ASK HIM)
Could he be using the exact same Database as his predecessor, Mr Noel C Barry used, when he was Chairman of (Right of Place?)………….. Maybe.
A close associate of this same person, Oliver Burke, pointed out to me (Several Times) that the Database was set up by, and (Owned by) Mr Oliver Burke.
This is a very valid point, and I am personally asking Mr Oliver Burke, yet again to explain to me, and to his (So Called) membership, if this Database is indeed (HIS).
He states, that it is expected, there will be a large attendance of Survivors, as well as representatives of the State, Religious Orders, and Clergy.
He also states, that it is his Intention to make this Mass an Annual event from hereon, but in particular this year. He states he wants it to be seen as a joint venture, and Reconciliation, as he put it, between Survivors, Church, and Religious Orders, as …….We…….. feel for true healing to commence, we must first achieve said Reconciliation. These were this mans OWN words.
He is even providing a Buffet, so he says. From where all of this is going to be funded from, is indeed a mystery, because at all of his previous meetings, All refreshments were supplied (FREE) of charge by a very generous, and Caring Survivor, who shall not be named, as this is the type of person he is.
It will indeed be very interesting to see, just how many Suirvivors will be sent out invitations to attend this Mass from Mr Burke’s Database. Keep your eyes open.
taly to raise €600m by taxing Church businesses
By Steve Scherer (Reuters)
SATURDAY, FEBRUARY 25, 2012
The Italian government announced measures yesterday to end tax exemptions on commercial property owned by the Catholic Church, in a move expected to add up to €600 million to state coffers each year.
Prime minister Mario Monti, who is a practicing Catholic, tacked the measure — which affects other non-profit organisations — onto a larger deregulation package.
The European Commission opened a probe against Italy in 2010 to determine if tax breaks for some Church properties amounted to illegal state aid and distorted competition.
Some political parties, particularly the tiny, liberal Radical Party and some intellectual leaders, have led a campaign to strip the Church of tax exemption on properties not used exclusively as places of worship.
The Church owns many private clinics, hotels and guest houses that enjoy tax exempt status because they are also occupied by priests or nuns, or have a chapel. The law closes this loophole, which granted tax exemptions to predominantly commercial structures.
The Italian Catholic Church — separate from the Vatican state, which has sovereignty — owns about 100,000 properties worth €9bn, including churches, schools, universities and hospitals.
It also owns properties mainly aimed at tourists such as the French restaurant Eau Vive and the four-star hotel Ponte Sisto in Rome.
Mr Monti asked Italians in December to make tough sacrifices as part of an austerity plan to stem contagion from the eurozone debt crisis.
In a 48-hour period after the austerity package was passed, more than 130,000 people signed an online petition demanding that the Church be stripped of much of its tax exempt status.
The new law will have a “positive effect on revenue”, the government said. The income it makes from the measure will go towards cutting taxes, not reducing Italy’s massive debt, it said.
When the plans were announced, the Corriere della Sera newspaper said it would mean the government tax assessments would be based on how much of a property was used for religious purposes. This would leave individual church buildings exempt, but see some taxes levied on a chapel which ran a hostel, for instance.
According to Italy’s association of city governments, the new taxes will bring in up to €600m per year.
The package will voted on in the Senate next week and must then go before the lower house of parliament.
Can anyone verify that this letter was in fact published and if so when and where?
Eh 15000 people thats the population of many towns. how can anyone at all believe this. how many of them would he know if he met them in a shop or walking down the street. because survivers need someone who can help them to be a person. thats just the opposite.a file number thats all its inhuman.
Questions abound, the most important being where did this gentleman get a mandate to represent 15,000 people. If it does transpire that Mr. Hayes does have 15,000 members I hope the Data Protection Office is aware of this. Paddy.
Well here is someone else that i have had no contact with except one mail i sent him. so how can he know my needs. This man is saying that he will be honest now. well thats fine but if he was honest he would know personly the people he represents. he is organising his own little surviver bleeding buisness.as for the redress board beeing enough for us well how would he know. no one can take the responsability of speaking for 1500 people all at the same time. these newspapers print insults to us all.its amazing what some get away with.
The Chairman of the group (Alliance) who supposedly speaks for (15,000) Survivors of Institutions?…………..is NOW telling the Government that, ……..They would be wrong to allocate Any more compensation to Victims.
He wants’ the extra Contributions from the Religious Orders, to go to (HIS) group (Alliance) to pay for their expenses……….How Dare He. And How Dare He, put such an article in the Sunday Times Newspaper.
Has he consulted with Survivors on this matter? Obviously (NOT) Just Who the hell does this person think he is?
Please read his submission below, and make up your own mind’s regarding this statement.
Also your comments on this matter would be very much Appreciated.
The Sunday Times, 19/02/2012. (Letter to the Editor)
We must distribute abuse fund with care.
The issues raised in Justine McCarthy’s article (“Time to pay up,”) Focus, last week) have been discussed over the years at various meetings with (abuse) survivors in Ireland and abroad, with many ministers, and also directly with the former taoiseach, Brian Cowen.
When the previous Fianna Fail government asked for increased contributions from the religious congregations after the Ryan report was published, these new offers were mistakenly seen as being totally for survivors.
Our attempts to have this corrected were met with silence, which did not help matters. The Alliance Support group believed that it was wrong for the government to allocate any further money to survivors who were compensated at the Residential Institutions redress Board.
It was announced that the cash element of the extra contributions from the religious congregations, amounting to €110m, was to be put into a “statutory fund”.
This gave a false view to those who had been fully compensated that there was “more compo” available. We believe the religious congregations should not give another penny to the government.
It remains our view that the religious orders who were responsible for the industrial schools and institutions should continue to be held to account for our welfare in all things.
Indeed, as many of us now get older we find that there is a greater need for medical. Dental and other welfare needs.
The statutory fund is designed to make redundant the voluntary support such as we within the alliance have provided since 1999.
Yet, we believe, access to the fund will be restricted to those articulate enough to make their case for it.
We are not confident that this government will administer or regulate this fund any better than the last government did.
Tom Hayes
Alliance Support Group
Co Armagh.
THE SUNDAY TIMES 19.02.12
The sundaytimes.ie/news
Too true Paddy. You know i was just thinking,
Looking at their Website tonight, i see they decided to suspend their Website from the 3rd of February for 48hours in the most.
Looking at my Calendar, now i find, that was over 2 weeks ago, and counting.
I am wondering ?, what’s wrong here? Why is it taking so long for these Parasites to update their Site?
It’s NOT like Right of Place Second Chance to be short of words, maybe i am wrong?
Has someone shut you up there lads, or can you not think of any more Lies to put up on your Site?
We are ALL awaiting for your Pathetic response to our queries. Maybe this is WHY you are taking so long to respond?
I have noticed that Michael, you seem to be taking a back seat recently, and you have been letting Junior take control of the Reins. NOT a very good idea Michael. Are you recruiting him to take over from you? I certainly hope not.
Maybe you are feeling your Age, and wish to sit back and let your Sibling take control?
Dont rest on your Laurels my friend, because i will never let you have an easy ride, of that you can be assured.
Answer the questions NOW, that are being asked of you, and your Pathetic group. Because at the end of the day, i WILL get my answers. Of that you may well be assured.
Remember, i will always be a THORN in your side Mr Walsh.
At the end of the day, I know where I came from.
Isn’t it time the material relating to Right of Place Second Chance be put on their website rather than on my website. With respect to you Mossie and to you Micheál perhaps you’re debates/differences/comments should be conducted on the Right of Place Website – I presume such a ‘beast’ exists. Paddy
To the Chairman, Board of Directors, of Right of Place Second Chance, and fellow Survivor.
Dear Michael.
Please forgive the simple mistake I made, by NOT addressing my questions to the correct person’s.
I accidently addressed my questions to your Son, when in fact I should have addressed them to you as Chairman of the Board of Directors: Apologies.
Thank you so much for responding to my recent observations of how ROP/SC conducts its business.
Had you responded to my questions on ROP’s website, then there would have been no need to wash our dirty linen in public, on Paddy’s site, or the Shame of ireland Websites.
However,
Is is thank’s to the generosity of Paddy Doyle, and Robert Northall that we have a communications channel.
To refresh your memory, and to alert the membership of ROP/SC please be so kind as to answer the following simple questions:
1. Have you informed ALL the membership of Right of Place of the New Constitution??2. Under the New Constitution, have you sent out Application Forms to every member, asking them, If they wish to be a member of Right of Place??3. Have you informed the membership that, under the New Constution, the Board of Directors has the power to IMPOSE subscriptions on those who are foolish enough to join your Organisation??4. Have you informed your membership, that under the New Constitution, the Board of Directors, HAS the power to impose LIFE SUBSCRIPTIONS on unsuspecting Survivors?
Please Micheal, the answer to these simple questions would be a great relief to everyone concerned.
If you have not sent out membership Application Forms, along with a copy of the New Constitution to everyone on the Database, then Technically Right of Place has NO membership.
In a Democracy, and under the Freedom of Information Act, and following what is custom and practice in Ireland, you MUST allow people to choose.
It’s a shame, that Right of Place does NOT practice democracy, which your Articles of Memorandum and Association specifically state.
We would be a formidable organisation…… if only…… the Chairman, and Board of Directors had consulted with it’s membership, before writing the New Constitution, and allowing themselve’s to be totally controlled by Mr Francis Treanor.
Oh!!…..and by the way……you did not refute Anything of what i wrote in my last submission.
Thank you again Paddy, and Robert for allowing me to inform Survivors of what is happening on the street.
Dear Micheal.
Dear Micheal.
Thank you so much for responding to my recent observations of how ROP/SC conducts its business.
Had you responded to my questions on ROP’s website, then there would have been no need to wash our dirty linen in public, on Paddy’s site, or the Shame of ireland Websites.
However,
Is is thank’s to the generosity of Paddy Doyle, and Robert Northall that we have a communications channel.
To refresh your memory, and to alert the membership of ROP/SC please be so kind as to answer the following simple questions:
1. Have you informed ALL the membership of Right of Place of the New Constitution?
2. Under the New Constitution, have you sent out Application Forms to every member, asking them, If they wish to be a member of Right of Place?
3. Have you informed the membership that, under the New Constution, the Board of Directors has the power to IMPOSE subscriptions on those who are foolish enough to join your Organisation?
4. Have you informed your membership, that under the New Constitution, the Board of Directors, HAS the power to impose LIFE SUBSCRIPTIONS on unsuspecting Survivors?
Please Micheal, the answer to these simple questions would be a great relief to everyone concerned.
If you have not sent out membership Application Forms, along with a copy of the New Constitution to everyone on the Database, then Technically Right of Place has NO membership.
In a Democracy, and under the Freedom of Information Act, and following what is custom and practice in Ireland, you MUST allow people to choose.
It’s a shame, that Right of Place does NOT practice this proceedure.
We would be a formidable organisation…… if only…… the Chairman, and Board of Directors had consulted with it’s membership, before writing the New Constitution, and allowing themselve’s to be totally controlled by Mr Francis Treanor.
Oh!!…..and by the way……you did not refute Anything of what i wrote in my last submission.
Thank you again Paddy, and Robert for allowing me to inform Survivors of what is happening on the street.
It’s up to you whether or not you subscribe to this website, never feel you have to. That wouldn’t do at all. Paddy
Paddy
If this cross website posting continues I would like to unsubcribe from your site, as I find it very annoying getting these long post to my email box. I agree totally with Mossie and it must be frustrating for him not getting his postings up on the correct website where they belong, but the fact is now we have a member or board members from this group posting to your website telling their side of some posting. Surely they should be putting that up on their own website after all their website is being funded by the tax-payer/church. Ie The Department of education,The HSE, The Church and the Stephen’s Green Trust fund. As far as I’m aware your site is self funded.
Micheál. Perhaps you would consider using your own website to correspond with people who write to mine. I’m more than happy to publish comments sent to me but am somewhat disturbed to learn that you don’t publish comments sent to you.
It is of course true that everyone doesn’t have access to a computer and so may not see correspondence sent to you via my website or your replies to those comments. You are aware I presume, that to hold the names and addresses of people you need a licence from the office of the Data Protection Office.
Best wishes.
Paddy
Hi Mossie,
Just to correct your information above.
The section entitled “special committees” was as a suggestion by Mr . Francis Treanor based on the work carried out since the New Board have taken over the New Right of Place.
It also clearly states that these roles are voluntary (the same as board of directors). This suggestion was offered because we want increased involvement by our membership base.
The idea of this is that should a member have an interest in a particular area they could make a suggestion about it to the Board of Directors (for example a social club) this would then be agreed and it would be run in conjunction with the outreach co-Ordinator and national co-Ordinator.. If there was not at least 3 members to run this committee they would then be offered to the membership to join the committee.
This thus ensures greater input from members on a localised level as Survivors can have a direct impact on the services and programmes that we provide
In effect the idea of the suggestion was to allow Our members have an input directly into their region and directly into their ideas, in effect to take ownership of them.
That’s all it simply is… It paves a way for a structured, transparent committee (s) to be established that allow Survivors to take control of suggestions that they may make.
To use an example if a group of survivors say to me they want a music club in Waterford City, we will help them to form their committee, aid them in finding premesis etc and they will run and organise it, therefore releasing the pressure on our stretched services and allowing Survivors run events for Survivors.
At the end of this both myself (or other outreach co-Ordinator) and Mr.Treanor would meet with this committee often to discuss how things are, do they need additional support etc.
This therefore again to re-iterate will allow Survivors control what services they provide and additionally will free up time for outreach workers to provide the outreach service that has proved so successful up to this point.
Finally as is evident from above the website is certainly not our only form of communication. We have 4 regional offices, 4 contact numbers, e-mail addresses, postal addresses and telephone numbers, ensuring Survivors have every access to contact us.
We already keenly aware that most survivors have no access to a computer, so it would make no sense to have our website as the only form of communication.
Hope this helps.
Attention………Attention……….Attention…….TO All Members Of Right of Place.
When, will this catalogue of “absolute authority”…. (Dictatorship)… cease?
The honorable men and women who fought so hard to get rid of
……. one Dictator ( Mr Noel C. Barry )
…………… are being strangled by an even bigger Dictator Mr. Francis Treanor.
The AGM Report produced by Mr. Treanor …… published…… after their Annual General meeting in Waterford….. need’s to be read by every Member of Right of Place.
On page seven of that document you will read that, NOW………the Board of Directors will develop special committees.
………each branch will have these special committees.
The members of these committees will be CHOSEN by the executive (Board of Directors).
CV’s will have to be submitted by members……to the Board of Directors……… for consideration.
These committees are to meet regularly and……… GUESS WHAT……. they are to report directly to the Support Coordinator ( Mr. Treanor ).
All issues and concerns brought by survivors to ‘Right of Place’ will now have to be (Vetted) by Mr Treanor………. before being presented to the Board of Directors,
……………..B..U..T……..
Mr Treanor is an employee of the company ‘Right of Place Second Chance’.
This is a classic case of ….“The TAIL Wagging The DOG”…….
It gets ….BETTER…….
Under Mr. Treanor’s directive…… members…….can only now communicate with the organisation through its on-line Website.
How many members are comfortable using a computer to communicate?.
Better still, are they going to supply all the membership with new computers and Training?. How many members actually have a computer? How many survivor’s to date, have been communicating with this group, through their Website?
Maybe a ……..“New Communication Officer”……..related to the Chairman……. will be employed by the company……to deliver the ECDL driving license to survivors.
That way, we can all communicate with the Executive, by computer or Laptop?.
Right of Place……. have introduced Radical Changes and Rules……that should give grave concern to all its members.
These company Rules and Regulations……. go against……. any benefit gained…….. from belonging to this organisation.
There is no doubt about it……… Right of Place……….is masquerading as a Charity,……..but……running a limited company for the benefit of the… ‘Directors and their Family members Only”.
Survivors…… DO NOT….. benefit…. from this Company.
Shut them down!!!.
I think you got it in one Monica!
Paddy,
I think I know now why I can’t see that comment. It was not on this website it must have been on ROP website. I’m getting confused now, although I do appreciate knowing whats going on down in Cork, would it not be better to have these comments on their website, or is ROP refusing to post peoples comments either for or againt them on their own website.
Micheal, i see you have erased you comments about my spelling.Treanor must have advised you to do so,with all your education and honours you should check your own spelling, if you do, you will find you are not the wizz kid you think you are.
You talk about been transparent and honest
Ask your father to give survivors an account
of all expenditures wages and expenses for last year (2011).ye lot are getting monies for nothing
maybe you could let us know where and how ye helped any survivor,and please give us the truth and not the bulls!!!,were getting from you to justify your wages
Maybe if you had spent some time (years) in an industrial school you would have some understanding of how we feel,remember what goes around comes around i cant wait to see ye lot in
ROP,all get whatye deserve, I await the day when ye all will showen for what ye really are.
Billy Collins.
I have no idea where that comment/post is. The reality is that most of us make mistake/typos when writing comments. Sorry I can’t be of more help than that Monica. Regards. Paddy
Can’t find that posting where the spelling mistake was brought up. Do you know where it is Paddy?
Mr Walsh, as a (So Called) outreach officer, you make me sick. Is this the best you can do, to criticize a Survivor for a misspelling error. You are (SUPPOSED) to be an outreach officer? I repeat (SUPPOSED) to be.
And you expect Survivors to take you seriously? Are you for real? Worse again, you are NOT even a Survivor yourself, and you have the Cheek to correct a Survivor who was never even taught the basics in these Industrial Schools. How bloody dare you, you PUP.
Is this what Outreach officers do, slag Survivors off online for making spelling mistakes?
Remember Mr Walsh, in case you do NOT understand, the Majority of us Survivors got NO education what so ever. Not like you, with all these titles (Probably Bought) on your Made Up (Curriculum Vitae) posted on your despicable Web-site.
How dare you mock, and jeer at the inadequacy of a Survivor, who has the misfortune to make an error in spelling on this, or Any site for that matter. It just goes to show, your complete Ignorance, and total lack of Understanding of Survivors, how they think, and how they feel. The very people who your MOB are getting Thousands of euros every year to represent, and (SUPPOSEDLY) help?
Your father, as bad as he may be, im sure will NOT be very impressed with Junior making such a Stupid comment on this site.
Is this how outreach officers behave Mr Walsh? Is this How outreach officers are supposed to behave?
If so, then there is never going to be ANY hope for Any Survivor to get the proper Redress, with Total Muppets like you running the show.
I recall Mr Micheal Walsh, on many many occasions, where you yourself have made many many spelling errors on many of these sites, and know only too well if need be, i could muster the lot of them together, and make a laughing stock of you.
But NO i wont lower myself to your standards, i will leave you to ponder on what you have done.
Go back to your Father, and learn some lessons in manners, and the proper way to Address Survivors, which you have failed so miserably to do so far.
You ought to be thoroughly ashamed to yourself. You are NOT helping Survivors to have any confidence in your group making statements like that,
THIS IS AN OUTRAGE.A DISGRACE
Organisation Details: Right of Place Second Chance
Project Contact: Mr Micheal Walsh; Outreach Manager
Amount of annual grant: €15,000
Right of Place Second Chance (ROPSC) provides a range of services to survivors, and had
4,500 telephone contacts in 2011. Many contacts came from their membership base, but
the majority of service provision is to non-members. The organisation has 3 regional offices,
supported by the head office in Cork where they operate 10 transitional apartments for
survivors. The outreach workers find permanent homes for the survivors.
Services provided by the organisation includes temporary accommodation units in Cork,
outreach to survivors, group support meetings, advocacy, information provision on a range
of issues specifically relevant to survivors and referral to welfare, work and education
services.
Project Details: Towards costs of running the organisation, including
newsletters, annual report, social events.
The purpose of the project is to develop effective ways of supporting and communicating
with members and other survivors of institutional abuse on a national basis.
This will include bi-monthly newsletters, promote greater awareness of survivor needs
among local and national statutory and non-statutory bodies which can have an influence
on survivors lives. They also intend to develop an annual report for the organisation which
will increase the transparency and accountability within the organisation. Other supports
will include regular social events.
According to (The Saint Stephens Green’s Trust) The Controversial group known as (Right of Place Second Chance) also received a grant of (€15,000) for their group in Lower Glanmire Road Cork.
They also Claimed that they had received over 4,500 telephone calls to their offices over the last year. I would Not believe this for one minute, and any calls they May have received, i bet were to critisise the group for the utterly, appalling way they are running their offices, and lack of Accountability towards Survivors.
It also states that many of these calls came from their membership base? But the majority of service provision was to NON Members.
They also say they provide temporary homes for Survivors in their building’s at Lower Glanmire Road, but do they tell you that they charge the Survivor €90.00 per week for the privilege? No i guess they do NOT. Where does this money go??
What group support meetings, have you held, or offered, to the survivor? I have never ever heard of any of these so called group support meeting’s in my entire life? It seems all you ever do in there is, as you said yourself is referral to work, and education services. May i remind you all again in there that all of these services are already available to everyone, and Do Not need a group like your’s as a go between to access these services.
The majority of service provision by your group ROP/SC is to, as you said yourself…….NON MEMBERS………So why on earth would anyone, in their proper frame of mind, wish to be a member of this silly organisation??
You received (€15,000) Fifteen Thousand Euros, for….Regular…..Social events…you Never held.
(€15,000) …to concoct a Newsletter, and Annual Report, that is overflowing with total B******T, and nothing else.
It was also noted Mr Treanor, when you distributed your Administration Expenses, after your (AGM) meeting in Waterford at Christmas, it was for The Year Ending 31st of December (2010) and NOT as everyone expected for the Year Ending (2011) Was this yet another ploy on your behalf to drag out your time in office for yet another year, and tell your (So Called Membership) Nothing? I guess it was.
And …. from their last Financial Report, “Four Hundred, and Twenty Three Thousand….Eight Hundred and Fifty Euro’s”…(€423,850) was paid out in Administration Expenses. What a total Dissipation, of Taxpayers hard earned cash, and at a time when the whole country is rimming on the edge of Insolvency.
Not a …..Single Cent ….was given in Assistance….to Any member.
This Board of directors ought to be Thoroughly Ashamed of Themselves.
This is an organisation…..you most definately…..”DO NOT” want to be a member of, or associated with in any way, shape, or form.
I will say it yet again, Absolutely Nothing has changed since Mr, Noel C Barry became President of (Right of Place) and Mr Francis Treanor took over the running of the Whole Show……even Chairing the Farcical AGM meeting held in Waterford at Christmas. If anything, it’s got worse.
This is…..NOT …….Transparent, and Honest Governance, Not by a long shot.
There is only one solution to this ongoing saga, and that is to, bring back the ONLY Honest man that WE the Survivors Democratically Elected to the Board of Directors, a person who between the lot of you in there in Lower Glanmire Road, could Never ever fill the boots of, (The Treasurer who Resigned) because of the complete and utter Lack of Accountability from the Chairman of the Board Mr Michael Walsh. This man is of course, Mr Thomas Brennan. A man NONE of you will EVER equal. Not in a MILLION year’s. Bring him back NOW, and FIRE the rest.
(Right of Place Second Chance) in MY opinion is, ROTTEN to the core. Shut it down……NOW.
Pope ‘unlikely’ to visit due to abuse fallout
By Seán McCárthaigh
Monday, February 06, 2012
The Archbishop of Dublin Diarmuid Martin has said it is unlikely Pope Benedict XVI will attend this summer’s International Eucharistic Congress in Dublin because of the ongoing fallout of clerical sexual abuse scandals in Ireland.
Dr Martin indicated that a Papal visit to coincide with the Congress would be premature against a background of the strained relationship between Ireland and the Vatican following recent reports which were highly critical of the Church’s handling of child abuse controversies.
Speaking on RTÉ Radio, Dr Martin said the Pope had been invited to attend the Congress but that he had not yet formally responded to the invitation.
However, he said the timing of any Papal visit would have to fit into the overall programme and timetable of the Church’s renewal in Ireland.
“Short-circuiting that renewal process probably would not bring the fruits that a Papal visit would bring,” said Dr Martin, adding that he did not personally believe that the Church in Ireland was “at that stage yet”.
The archbishop pointed out that the results of an apostolic visitation by senior Vatican personnel to Ireland last year in the aftermath of the damning reports on clerical sex abuse in the dioceses of Dublin and Cloyne were still awaited.
It is also believed that the Church authorities in Ireland are concerned that a visit by Pope Benedict could spark wide-scale protests and detract from the Congress’s programme of events.
Dr Martin said that the Congress, which will be held in Ireland for the first time since 1932, represents a chance for the Catholic Church to oversee a wider renewal of faith.
The official programme of events for the 50th Congress, which takes places on June 10-17, was released yesterday.
It is expected that 25,000 visitors, half of whom will come from overseas, will attend a range of events each day, including workshops, keynote addresses and liturgical celebrations.
Pilgrims from more than 95 countries have already registered to attend the Congress, which will have a theme of ‘The Eucharist: Communion with Christ and with one another.’
The highlight of the week’s events will be an open-air mass attended by 80,000 people, entitled Statio Orbis, which will be held in Croke Park on June 17.
Most events will be held at the RDS in Ballsbridge, which will also host a Eucharistic Village and exhibition.
Its been over (10) days now since the Chairman of the group (Right of Place Second Chance) Mr Michael Walsh, had his Son Micheal put up on his Website a video-clip about his commitment this year to build on the work done by his group over the course of 2011.
In this clip, Mr Michael Walsh talks about drawing a line under the last (Right of Place) and going forward. How does he intend to do this, if he refuses to confront past issues concerning that group. Also thousands of Euros, which are owed to a Building Contractor in Cork going back years for work carried out on the building, and which so far have not been paid?
Does Mr Walsh realise that when starting the new Company of (Right of Place Second Chance) he was taking over the responsibilities, and Debts of the last (Right of Place?) If he did not, then he should not be holding the position he does as Chairman of that group.
He speaks about (Honesty and Transparency) two very important words which Obviously he does NOT know the meaning of.
If by holding an (AGM) meeting recently in Waterford, and NOT informing their (So Called Membership) of the issues raised above is being, (Honest and Transparent) then they have Failed dismally as a group to have ANY faith in.
He talks about (ROP/SC) now being a professional group, is he for real? They have progressed from the frying pan, and into the fire. If anything, Survivors are all worse off now than they have ever been, and will NEVER be heard as long as Parasites like this group are left in position.
I would ask Mr Walsh, again, what professional results you have achieved for Survivors? Your Chairman of your (AGM) Mr Francis Treanor gave a very very Pathetic explanation when he spoke of the results of this groups achievements so far, to name but a few as he stated. Read his report if you will, the statistics are nothing but Boring.
Your response when asked about the late Mary Raftery Mr Walsh was disgraceful. You could not even speak the Lady’s name correctly. She was NOT (Mary Rafferty) as you so put it, but (Mary Raftery) you could not even get the name right. Your group did NOT even have the decency to send one person to attend that lady’s funeral, and you talk about all that person did for Survivors. You know something Mr Walsh, you are Pathetic, and a Hypocrite, and ought to be thoroughly ashamed of yourself, and step down as (Chairman)
You also stated Mr Walsh that you would welcone ALL Survivors contact at your office, this sir is nothing but a blatant LIE. I have sent you in some questions weeks ago to your Site, but you refuse to even answer them on youe discussion page, as you stated you would.
I have also noted that to this date, (NO ONE) has contributed anything to your Pathetic Proposals, which proves to me, and other Survivors who read these comments that, your (SO Called) interaction with Survivors through your Website Mr Walsh is (NOT WORKING), it never has, and it never will.
You are showing the HSE stats, or Hits to the site, which mean absolutely nothing, and from this you claim you are doing great things for Survivors, when really, you are doing nothing but claiming your expenses for travelling around the country, and doing Nothing. Totally Useless the lot of you.
The views you have received for your Pathetic Video message does NOT say very much for the Audience you envisaged for Mr Walsh. (58) It’s a very far cry from the (1,750 ) Survivors you Claim to have on your (Illegal) database. And by the way Mr Walsh, (8) of those hits were from me alone, so i could grasp the true B******T of what you were dishing out to the Downtrodden Survivors, as you called them.
To conclude Mr Walsh, i must say that i thought your Video address was to say the least very amaturely put togrther, but then again i suppose, we could not expect anything else really from an Amature group.
If Mr Walsh had any real interest about Survivors problems and how they really percieve these groups, he should talk to a Survivor who spent over (15) years in these Hell-Holes, and NOT make silly videos, so the HSE, and whoever else they are sponsored by, can see what a great job he is doing for these vunerable people, when really all he is doing is pretending to be doing something he is NOT.
Mossie
I believe you have a very good case to go forward to
http://www.transparency.ie/about
Some questions for, Mr Michael Walsh, and The Board of Directors of (Right of Place Second Chance)
• Would it be possible for the Board of Directors to inform their membership; Who got the contract in Lower Glanmire Road to fit the new windows, when the building was being renovated?
• How much did the renovations cost, and Who paid the bill?
• As the funds to pay that bill came from members money, they have a right to know, Who paid it, and also to who’m was it paid to?
• Also, the Taxpayers as well have a right to know, and the “Public Accounts Committee” will be wanting to know where this money went to.
• As you, Mr Francis Treanor, and the Board of Directors, took over the company under a “Transfer of Undertaking” you are, (I Believe) liable for All outstanding debts, of The Old, and The New company, would you agree?
• Because you are registered as a Charity, i also believe that under The Charities Act, “Yourself” and the other members of the Board of Directors become “Personally Liable” for those outstanding debts?
• Company, “Limited Liability” is NO protection, under The Charities Act.
• Do please correct me if i am wrong.
• I look forward to a positive response from you. and thank you in advance for your precious time.
I am asking the Chairman Mr Michael Walsh, and his Board of Directors, to answer these questions for me. In his message to The Shame of Ireland, he invited ALL Survivors, ( and not only their members) to send in their questions, and have their say. So the ball is in your court now Michael.
Third of Church property to be still handed over
By Juno McEnroe, Political Reporter
Tuesday, January 24, 2012
Nearly a decade after the controversial indemnity deal for religious orders was signed, only two thirds of properties agreed have been legally handed to the State as part of the compensation agreement for abuse victims.
Latest figures show that 40 of the agreed 61 lands and buildings were legally transferred to the State by last month. The slow negotiations saw only three extra properties transferred across during the last six months.
So far, just 65% of properties worth €40.9 million under the deal, have been transferred to the State by religious orders. The agreement was originally signed on June 5, 2002.
Correspondence from the secretary general of the Department of Education reveals 21 properties remain to be fully signed over to the State.
“The Congregations have agreed to transfer these properties under the indemnity agreement, subject to good and marketable title being furnished,” wrote Brigid McManus in her letter to the Oireachtas Public Accounts Committee.
“Physical transfers of the properties have taken place and all of these properties are in use or available for use by intended recipients. While they have transferred physically, the Chief State Solicitor’s office continues to pursue the legal requirements issue under the indemnity agreement.”
But committee chairman John McGuinness yesterday called for an end to the dragged-out talks on the properties and said the Government needed to press Church authorities to close the deal.
“It has been a slow and painful process to get the Church to focus on this and deliver the deal. From the latest information, there needs to be a concentration of minds so the properties can go across with full title. The State needs to push the Church authorities on this.”
Of the lands yet to be fully transferred to the state, 12 are in Cork and four are in Waterford. The others are in Westmeath, Limerick, Dublin, Monaghan, Kerry.
The €40.9m transfer of properties so far is separate from extra cash payments which form part of the €128m deal for religious orders. Religious groups have agreed to contribute €54.5m in cash, €10m for counselling services and €63.5m in property transfers.
I have been monitoring the Right of Place Website now for some time, and i am of the opinion that it is highly subject to Censorship, a balanced view of opinion will Never be reflected by the Author of this site.
Unlike the Paddy Doyles site, (The God Squad) and Robert Northalls site, (The Shame of Ireland) that will allow differences of opinion, to be openly debated, and expressed for everyone to see and comment on. (Right of Place ) on the other hand will only allow opinions that will conform to their own way of thinking. Is this being Honest and Transparent?
The Board of Directors in (Right of Place Second Chance) had an obligation to inform all of their membership of the impending (Law-Suit) by a Cork based building company for hundreds of thousands of Euros for works carried out. Why did they not do this at their (AGM) meeting in Waterford?
As a concerned member, the Board of Directors should have informed all of it’s membership at it’s recently held (AGM) meeting that was held in Waterford on the 20th of december last.
Had the Chairman of the Board of Directors, Mr Michael Walsh of (ROP/SC) had listened to Mr Tom Brennan, (Treasurer who resigned) a year or so ago, this (Law-Suit) would have been dealth with properly, and settled long long ago. Instead, they decided NOT to support their then Treasurer, who wanted Accountability, and therefore leaving him with NO other option than to resign from his position as Treasurer.
Also over a year or so, the delegates who were chosen to elect the New Board of Directors were informed that the appointment of a New Board of Directors of ROP/SC) would be taking on ALL the financial liability of the old company (Right of Place Buildings Project)
Mr Francis Treanor, along with the female Solicitor he brought down with him from Galway were in the room to witness the proceedings, and everyone was forewarned of the consequences they were about to undertake.
The Board of Directors would be well advised to offer Mr Tom Brennan a sincere apology for NOT supporting him in his endevour to get accountability; and to move the whole affair forward with a complete clean bill of health.
Men of Integrity, and Honor, like Mr Tom Brennan are a very rare comodity, and had the Board of Directors under the leadership of Chairman Mr Michael Walsh had listened to their new Treasurer a year or so ago, they would NOT be in the Mess they find themselves in today.
As the appointed Board of Directors ; the membership have a right to know what exactly is happening within the company, and what is going on. This matter SHOULD have been pointed out to the members at the (AGM) meeting in Waterford. (WHY was it not done?)
Instead the Chairman, Mr Michael Walsh, decided to make a Controlled Video interview for(Utube) apologising for his deriliction of duty in not attending the recent funeral of the late Mary Raftery. A funeral which (NO ONE) from the group (Right of Place Second Chance) attended. Utterly Disgraceful.
Well thanks mossie. Once again its another witness and surviver that lets us know whats going on. is this the company you were questioning before. i am not surprised at all as in all this time no one seems to get any real help . fictonal help on here but on the condition that we sign on as members. thats to be referred to another office. that way there isint any confidently for the members.
“An article in the Phoenix magazine published this week Highlights once again the Corruptibility of the Board of Directors of Right of Place.”
Mossie
Any Chance you can copy and paste the article in the Phoenix as it’s not on their website and a person has to subscribe to get it.
Important Article, for ALL Survivors to read, and digest.
I get no pleasure or satisfaction from having to repeatedly ask for accountability from the Board of Directors of, (Right of Place Second Chance)
If Honesty and Transparency, instead of lies and deceit were values they live by, then the membership of the organisation would support the Board.
Here we are today with yet more adverse publicity about the organisation, is there Any end to this?
An article in the Phoenix magazine published this week Highlights once again the Corruptibility of the Board of Directors of Right of Place.
The company Right of Place, are being sued by a building contractor for outstanding bills not being paid.
The new Board of Directors ( and I Quote, “When Installed” ) took over all legal liability of that company upon their appointments.
The only honorable person on that new Board of Directors, Mr Tom Brennan ( Treasurer ), resigned, after the Chairman ( Mr Michael Walsh ) and other members of the board, refused to support him in his valiant effort to establish where the €3.2million euro funding went.
It is no surprise that survivors who may, or may not be members of the organisation are also asking for accountability.
Even today, funding for 2010 of €420,000 for administration of which €195,000 was for wages and expenses needs some serious questions and answers.
Who benefits ??
Certainly not the survivors but, as truthfully reported in the Phoenix, “only a small inner circle benefit”.
Those of us who campaign for Accountability want ALL FUNDING for groups to cease.
This funding does not benefit survivors, but it does benefit Michael Walsh (Chairman ROP) and his Son Micheal, (Outreach worker)
That happens all the time. Is it a problem? Let me know. Paddy
Paddy
This is posted on wrong thread
Mary Raftery Funeral.
I noticed that at the funeral of the late Mary Raftery, a person who did so much for Survivors, and their plight in bringing all these atrocities to the forefront, that there was a very conspicious absence of certain groups from her funeral.
You would think that all groups would do the right thing in paying their last respects to this Great lady, who did so much for the recognition for Survivors.
I suppose the Board of Directors, and the Outreach Officers on salaries were far too busy counting their money, that they had no time, or just plainly could not be bothered to attending this funeral in Dublin.
Mary Raftery was the greatest advocate for survivors of the industrial schools, and ROP/SC could not be bothered to honour her death. What an utter disgrace.
There was also a very noticeable absence from the Leader of The Aisling Center in Dublin, Christine Buckley. Very Very bad taste indeed.
Without Mary Raftery campaigning effortlessly for survivors, and bringing our stories into the public domain as a Journalist, we would never have been recognised as survivors of abuse.
The following were in attendance at the funeral.
Paddy Doyle
Michael O Brien
Victor HackettJohn Kelly
Christopher Heaphy
Peter Townsend
Tom Hayes.
And this is to mention but a few.
But. Without the journalistic skills of Mary Raftery, survivors would never have got recognition, or Redress.
We all owe her a great debt of gratitude. May She rest in Peace.
Hi Monica, thanks for your response. No matter what i would ask ROP/SC for , you may be assured, i will NOT get. They don’t respond to people like me because they see me as a threat, and NOT to be entertained under ANY circumstances.
What ever minutes they put up where-ever, i most certainly would NOT believe. I’m sure they have someone who is quite good at covering up these things for them.
You can be sure Survivors would have been very nervous being asked to stand up and show themselves, good tactics by some Smart Ass.
They seem to have so many ways of gathering peoples names. Then they have had plenty of time to do this.
Has anybody heard anything of this other group Munster Survivors? They seem to be keeping a very Low profile lately. I do hope the HSE will not be foolish enough to start funding them shortly. Everybody seems to be jumping on the band wagon now looking for funding, and Claiming to represent Survivors.
Another question which i meant to ask The Area Co-Ordinator/and Chairman of the AGM, Mr Francis Treanor, you stated that Funding for this group (Right of Place Second Chance) for the year (2011) was, (€270,000) (€280,000) which is it Mr Treanor. There is a Big difference between €270,000 and €280,000, a difference of €100,000, i didnt get much of an education, and even i can figure this out. Are you trying to hide something here, or what exactly are you inferring?
Why do we need so many offices here in Ireland, and Great Britain? And they are talking about opening up another one shortly in Dublin. Only a few weeks ago they were sending out begging letters, and giving everyone the poor mouth.
And you call this being Transparent.
Good luck Monica.
Mossie
I also read those minutes and was also wondering. Was it a meeting or a debate. Usually in a debate the moderator would say “you have three Minutes” or the like maybe they are watching too much telly like the presidential election and got th idea from that. Mossie you can as they said write in for the full minutes, but I wouldn’t do that cause they might put your name down as a member “TICK THIS BOX” CLICK INTO WEBPAGE>>>>>>>Gotya.You are now a full pledged member.
SHOW US THE EXPENSES MICHAEL?
oh, forgot, think they are a LIMITED Company, don’t thing you can ask a Limited company that
I wonder if Any of these people who work in (Right of Place) in Lower Glanmire Road ever Really look on these Sites. If they did, then they would really see how Survivors percieve them.
Do Any of you really have any idea of what a lot of Survivors think about your group, or indeed Any of these groups who ALLEGE they speak for?
You cannot be living in the same world, or even on the same planet. Can any one of you tell us Survivors of what you have actually done for anyone? You put up a load of Rubbish on your Website recently, about doing this and doing that, but the reason behind all of this, is just to Appease the HSE who funds you.
It all looks really well on paper, but i bet if you were asked to prove any of this, you would be lost. I am surprised to see that the HSE is STILL giving you lot funding. I wonder if indeed the HSE if asked, could show us some sort of Proof as to where they are shovelling Taxpayers money, i bet they could NOT. You most likely would plead Confidentialiy. How APT?
As for whoever put the minutes of that SHAM of a so called AGM on the ROP Website is concerned, again that was only done yet again to Appease the Sponsors, and no one else, you are NOT fooling the Survivors.
I see that (YET AGAIN) another one of your Waterford committee has resigned? And just as before, for the same reasons, as previous resignations from this group. His reason was, No one tells me anything. Now where did we hear that before? Ah yes was that not the same reason for the (2) New Board of Directors members resigning, because they too were NOT getting any co-operation from the Chairman Mr Michael Walsh?
Again, if you dont toe the line, you are NOT wanted. So much for their Honesty and Transparency, which they talk about so much. But then again lads, talk is cheap, is it not? And you are all overtrained in this tactic.
I would like to ask Mr Wall a question if i may. You stated on the (ROP) website that None of the Board of Directors, including yourself get a Salary, but you are entitled to your expenses for travelling. (Fine) You went on to say, and you Emphasized this quote in brackets, (“ Note other Board members travel from Galway”) (WHO) have you on the Board of Directors that is from Galway. ? Mr Treanor perhaps? But Mr Treanor is telling everyone he is (“Not”) a member of the Board of Directors of (Right of Place) Someone here is not exactly telling the truth now, would you agree.
Or maybe Mr Treanor was elected by yourselv’es because it suits you? Coming to think of it Mr Wall. (WHO) elected you onto the Board? And were you not a member of the group Alliance? Also were your So Called membership asked for their opinions on you being elected? or were they indeed even asked? More than likely NOT.
Mr Wall, we only have your word, and the word of your Chairman? Mr Walsh, about having proper accountability, and transparency as you so put it. If you want transparency and accountability, put your expenses up on your Site for ALL to see. Why should anyone take the word of a group with the reputation (Right of Place Second Chance) have got? If there is NO hidden agenda, why do we always have to try and pump you for information, only to be Fobbed off with some unbelieveable excuses?
Would you all be so kind as to put your Expenses up on your Website, so ALL members can see for themselves just what you are claiming for?. Now that might be classed as being open and transparent, in some way. Dont you agree? There is No point in you telling us you dont get paid, tell us instead what you Do claim in your expenses.
Can Mr Walsh (Chairman?) please tell his so called membership, what exactly Mr Danny Mc Evoy said to the meeting on his reasons for his resignation? as Mr Walsh only said that Mr Mc Evoy resigned. This reason Mr Walsh is very very important. Please let us all know, and dont be telling us half the story?
Another question for the Chairman, i that is (IF) he is indeed the Chairman. Why is it that whatever meeting you hold , Mr Francis Treanor always seem to Chair it? You all say this man is NOT on your Board of Directors, yet at all of your meetings this person asks all of the questions? How come, please explain? Is Mr Walsh just a mere Puppet being dangled on a piece of string, and told to keep his mouth shut for fear he might put his foot in it, and say the wrong thing? Maybe?
Maybe it is Mr Francis Treanor who is the real Chairman after all, and NOT Mr Walsh as everyone else seems to think?
This was a statement from Francis Treanor before question time started.
Francis Treanor (Chairman of AGM) opened the next part of the AGM. He asked the members if they had any questions, or any concerns so far. He also asked the members, when they ask a question to please stand up and state their name, and what area they come from eg the Waterford region. Also to please restrict the time to three minutes.
If this is not intimidation of Vunerable Survivors, i dont know what is. Firstly the Survivor is made to stand up, which nine times out of ten they will be Reluctant to do, as He or She may be shy, and may not want other people to know who they are, what their name is, or where they come from. Was it , i wonder a ploy, to Silence anyone from standing up and revealing who they were? Also it is putting the Survivor on the spot, so the Board of Directors not only know the person personally, and know where they come from, but also affords the Board to know in future whether to invite that person to subsequent meetings? This as far as i am concerned, and im sure a lot of people will agree, was a Tactic by the Board of Directors, or someone thinking along the same lines, to keep the Survivor from asking a question. Very Clever, Very Clever indeed.
It was also stated that anyone asking a question would be restricted to (3) minutes of the floor. Yet another ploy by these masterminds to silence, and Bully the person asking the question. Also seeing that you only had a grand Total of (32) present, with (3 or 4 ) of those after leaving, the Board could have afforded the speakers a little bit more time to the Survivoe asking the question? But then again, perhaps the Board did NOT want anyone asking them questions? Yes that more than likely may have been their real intentions?
I wonder WHY Mr Francis Treanor never asked any of the attendees at the meeting in Waterford to leave, if thet were NOT members of (Right of Place Second Chance)? A point he specifically asked when he Chaired his last meeeting in Cork?
Perhaps, He already knew that mostly ALL attending were loyal supporters of (ROP) and knew that there was NO immediate threat to their meeting?
It really has got me thinking, why some of the Survivor members of (Right of Place) in my area who spoke out at the last meeting held in The Imperial Hotel in Cork recently, (DID NOT) get an invitation to attend the (AGM) in Waterford? Perhaps the (Chairman) whosoever that may be, would be able to answer that question?
Why do i keep asking myself, is this being Honest and Transparent?
Still no sign of any news from the AGM held by (Right of Place Second Chance) which was held on the 20th of December in Waterford.
According to Survivors who attended this meeting, there were a grand total of (32) people in attendance. Hardly what anyone would expect for an AGM. But then i suppose more Survivors would have certainly been there if the group that was holding this important AGM had advertised it on their Website. WHY i dont know?
I cannot for the life of me comprehend WHY this AGM was (NOT) posted on their Website. They put up some silly bits and pieces from time to time to Appease the HSE who funds them, and to make it look like they are looking after Survivors needs, which we ALL know, they are NOT.
Maybe there was a very good reason WHY this group did NOT publicise this very important meeting? Perhaps they did NOT want to forewarn the Rebels in the Cork/Kerry regions that this meeting was going to take place, as they would NOT have wanted the Survivors from these regions there, after the battering they received recently when they tried to elect their own Cronies to the Cork branch of (ROP)
I have been informed by good sources that the Outreach Co-Ordinator gave a Powerpoint Presentation to members that attended, but according to Survivors who were asked about their opinions, most said it was afarce, and they did NOT have a clue as to what he was on about. Great Tactics , Mr Treanor.
Do these people ever think, that the So Called membership they are talking to have little or NO education, and have not got a CLUE as to what they are being told? (Maybe that was the purpose of the lesson. Blind them with Science?)
This is all very fine for these people who have been able to afford an education, (by whatever means?) to be giving a Powerpoint Presentation to Survivors who have not got an iota of what they are talking about.
Or maybe, it was MEANT to be that way, by trying to Baffle the Survivor with total (B******T) which i would be more inclined to believe.
I see the Mayor of Waterford failed to show up to this meeting? Maybe he suddenly realised that he was only being used by this group because of his role as Mayor of the city? By adding Credibility to the meeting. I would safely say that (YES) this Was the case. Or maybe he was Never meant to attend?
I also noted that on their letter which were sent out, to the Chosen few to attend their meeting, there was NO mention of re-electing a (New Board of Directors ?) I may be wrong, but is this Improper proceedure? I was always led to believe, that at any (AGM) the letter should include the proceedure to elect a (New Board of Directors) This was very Cunningly done, i wonder by (WHO?)
We were then told by Mr Walsh’s son (Micheal) who incidentally was (NOT) at the meeting, and Supposidly out of the country that, this was not necessary as the existing (Board of Directors) when elected, (Which They Were Not) were elected for a (2) year period. TOTAL LIES.
It’s their own selfish way of holding onto Power, for yet another year, so they can (ALL) benefit yet again from the New Trust Fund, and nothing more, because they believe the ordinary Survivor will never have the Gumption to question them, which so far is working.
For a group who has been giving us all the sad mouth over the past few weeks on how their funding has been Slashed by the HSE, they are Still talking about opening up another branch in Dublin, and that’s after closing the one in Limerick? Who is Kidding Who?
I have also learned from the (ROP) website today, that Mr Walsh’s son (Micheal) has been to Los Angeles very recently? I wonder is this (WHY) Micheal you were unable to attend the very important AGM meeting which was held in your own branch in Waterford?
Can i ask Micheal, were you there to promote (RIGHT of Place Second Chance?) and if so, WHO paid for this trip? Seemingly you cannot afford to advertise an Important AGM in Waterford to your membership, but yet you CAN afford to fly off to Los Angeles when your AGM is held at home? I find this impossible to believe.
Why did you have to go to Los Angeles to promote (Right of Place second Chance) and industrial abuse? Also WHO authorised you to air Survivors problems on (WPMD) radio station in Los Angeles? You refuse to interact with Survivors here in your own Country.
Remember Micheal, you are (NOT) and i will repest (NOT) a Survivor, and how dare you stroll off to a foreign country to speak to a load of Strangers about the problems Survivors have to face in this country. It would be more in your line to talk to the Survivors themselves, instead of totally ignoring them like you do?
Or was it maybe you were on a funding mission to try and collect extra funding from the American Public for your own selfish needs?
Another thing i have noted was, on the day you held your AGM, an AGM which i may add, most Survivors knew absolutely Nothing about, you were able to put up on your website everything concerning this AGM? It was posted by the Administrator on Tuesday the 20th December, at (11.58hrs?) Would this be (AM) or (PM?) either way it was preemptive, I find this disgraceful. I thought the Administrator was away in America, or so we were led to believe? Is there no end to your abundance of talents? (Truly Amazing?)
I would also like to ask your group, seeing now that you have formed a brand (NEW COMPANY) (Right of Place Second Chance) have you informed your So Called membership you (Supposidly) hold from the previous company of their Transition into your New Company? I’D say the answer to this question is NO.
(Is this LEGAL?) Surely you cannot close one company down, and Automatically transfer it’s membership to a New Company, without seeking the members permission? Am i wrong in Assuming this? Would these members not be entitled to an explanation as to HOW they could be Automatically transferred from one Company to another, without being consulted first? Or (MAYBE) we should just do as we are told? Yeah i guess so.
You all in (Right of Place Second Chance) have a hell of a lot of explaining to do, which you just tend to shrug off at will. Answer the questions, or maybe you wont as it may Incriminate you all? Yes it certainly seems that it just (MAY) be that. We look forward to your response.
Happy New Year To You All.
The article you refer to is on the front page of my website and has been there before it was posted here by someone else. Happy New Year. Paddy
I’m just wonder why these articles are hidden in this thread
Just wondering as they have no connection to the main topic on thsi thread
29 health officials get €14.5m in payouts, pensions
By Fiachra Ó Cionnaith
Thursday, December 29, 2011
SEVERAL of the HSE’s most senior managers received over €7 million in lump sum retirement packages as the economic crisis began to unfold — and have been given another €7.5m in pensions since leaving.
Documents obtained by the Irish Examiner under the Freedom of Information Act show the payouts were given to 29 senior officials between late 2005 and October 2009, just after the creation of NAMA.
The individuals, who the HSE has refused to name, were all above hospital consultant or senior management level. They include:
* A value-for-money director who received a once-off €137,662 payment to retire in September 2006 (€229,435 pension to date).
* Three senior finance officials who received a combined €476,643 in once-off payments between April 2007 and September 2009 (€456,365 combined pension to date).
* Six human resources directors who received €944,271 between June 2006 and October 2009 (€973,792 combined pension to date).
* A capital projects director who, since retiring on the eve of the September 2008 bank guarantee, has received a €165,470 golden handshake and €165,471 in pension payments.
In all, 19 senior officials shared a lump sum of over €3m, with payouts ranging from €77,550 to €221,979. The remaining 10 former Health Board chiefs executive, whose positions became obsolete after the establishment of the HSE, shared €4.12m in severance, ex gratia and retraining payments.
These 10 individuals have received a shared €4.11m in pensions since departing in late 2005 and early 2006.
While the HSE refused to provide a person-by-person breakdown of the costs, the largest payout to one member of this group involved a €274,200 golden handshake lump sum, an annual €91,400 pension and an ex-gratia payment also worth €91,400 for their work as a chief executive.
The 10 individuals are: Stiofáin de Burca (ex-Mid West Health Board); Denis Doherty (ex-HEBe); Pat Donnelly (ex-South Western Area Health Board); Martin Gallagher (ex-East Coast Area Health Board); Pat Gaughan (ex-Midland Health Board); Pat Harvey (ex-North West Health Board); Michael Lyons (ex-EHRA); Paul Robinson (ex-North Eastern Health Board); Dr Sheelagh Ryan (ex-Western Health Board); and Maureen Windle (ex-Northern Area Health Board)
A number of these former chiefs executive have since set up private health consultancy firms which perform taxpayer-funded HSE work.
While the Irish Examiner requested details on whether these lucrative consultancy contracts were tendered for — a legal requirement if the cost is over €50,000 — the HSE said this would only be provided after significant search and retrieval fees were paid.
The HSE said a similar request for details on learning contracts, whereby the taxpayer pays an official’s university fees, travel expenses and related expenditure for a work-related qualification, would cost €7,332.50.
* FOCionnaith.direct@examiner.ie
Details of memorial to abuse victims due
By Niall Murray, Education Correspondent
Thursday, December 29, 2011
DETAILS of the planned €500,000 memorial to victims of institutional child abuse will be announced next summer more than three years after it was proposed.
However, the location has yet to be confirmed and the expected date for completion is not yet available as it depends on the design.
The May 2009 report of the Commission to Inquire into Child Abuse, chaired by Mr Justice Sean Ryan, recommended that a permanent memorial be erected. It is to include the wording of the 1999 apology by then Taoiseach Bertie Ahern on behalf of the State for the suffering of those who were abused while in its care.
The committee to oversee the erection of the memorial was announced by then education minister Batt O’Keeffe in October 2009. The Office of Public Works (OPW) was asked to commission and deliver it with a €500,000 budget set aside.
The committee launched a design competition last July after consulting interested parties and survivor groups on the location and nature of the memorial.
A shortlist of six competitors has now been selected by an international jury of:
* Marta Santos Pais, special representative of the UN secretary-general on violence against children.
* Brian O’Doherty, sculptor and film-maker based in New York.
* Pat Cooney, OPW principal architect, and
* Vivienne Roche, co-founder of the National Sculpture Factory, Cork.
The Department of Education said yesterday that the committee expects to announce the competition winner next June.
The memorial committee is chaired by former OPW chairman Sean Benton. The other members are: Bernadette Fahy and Paddy Doyle representing survivors of abuse, Seán Ó Laoire of the Royal Institute of Architects of Ireland, Monica Corcoran of the Arts Council and former Cork county architect Billy Houlihan.
The child abuse commission’s costs could reach €100 million after the finalisation of all legal costs of third parties which were represented in its investigations and hearings. The final bill to the State of compensating those abused while in institutional care as children is set to top €1.1 billion, with almost 13,500 awards made to the end of 2010.
Answer to Pauline’s comment.
You are so right there Pauline. They have No good intentions. The Church, and everyone else has got away because we have allowed them to, with our infighting with each other. This IS their ploy, and we ARE falling for it. This is what they want. As long as we fight with one another, we will NEVER be listened to.
They keep us Divided through our Ignorance of how their system works. They know, only too well that as long as we fight among each other, we will (NEVER EVER) achieve anything. This works only too well in their favour. They will never talk to us while this is going on. Remember, they are Politicians, and know how to Manipulate people. Need you be told? You should be only too aware how they are doing it to us already.
We need to understand and overcome this. This is NOT going to be easy. We are not all educated, thanks to these people that for so long have kept us under their Control, and to this day continue to do so, because as long as we are divided, we can be Manipulated what ever way they deem fit, and guess what it’s working.
They keep us ignorant, and fill us full of C**P. This is the way the use to control us, and guess what, it’s working. Why? because we know NO different, and whats more, We Couldn’t be Bothered. (SIMPLE THINK ABOUT IT.)
When are WE as Survivors going to have the GUMPTION to tell these group leaders, (We HAVE HAD ENOUGH) and we are NOT going to take any more?
The only people that are gaining from (OUR IGNORANCE) are these (SO CALLED) groups who CLAIM to represent us, and as we all are only too aware, they are (NOT)
How much longer are WE going to put up with this BULL.
For GODS SAKE, stand together, and BE HEARD, because if we dont, these group (PARASITES WILL REAP THE BENEFITS) which so far are doing, with the aid of the Government who are only, too happy to keep us all Divided, after all, it’s in their interest.
If (NOT) for yourselves, why not do it for your Children. At the end of the day they need to be shown that, their parents (DID) the right thing by them, to ensure that (HISTORY) does (NOT) repeat itself again.
We need to put the past behind us.
With these groups, this will (NEVER) be achieved. Please take notice.
This notice was put up on the (Right of place) Website, about 2 weeks ago. Yet they are talking about opening another office in Dublin? How Weird is that?
Today was the last day that the Limerick office was operational due to financial problems with funding.
We are currently in the process of sending begging letters to various organisations looking for help.
If you know of anyone with a bit of spare cash I would like to hear from you.
Rehards,
Martin Woodland, Limerick.
Has anybody noticed also, they have NO notice on their Website regarding the AGM they are holding in Waterford tomorrow evening?
They say they are keeping members updated through their Website, how can Survivors know about this important AGM meeting, when they don’t inform members that there is an AGM being held?
Would it be possible that Mr Treanor, and Mr Walsh do NOT want Survivors to know about this meeting tomorrow evening, in case they might have an angry crowd there that would be asking awkward questions? (Questions) which they have always refused to answer.
Does the HSE know that the group they are funding with Taxpayers money, have NOT informed the Survivors of the AGM, but yet CLAIM they are speaking on behalf of Survivors.
Or maybe it is that the HSE do NOT care. Because this group (Right of Place Second Chance) seem to do what they like, with the blessing of the HSE.
Could I ask Mr Mc Allister from the HSE to please check with the Survivors, and ask them IF they are being properly represented, and informed of these meetings by this group. I’m quite certain, his eyes will be opened.
If any So Called member of this group is travelling to Waterford tomorrow evening to this meeting, take the opportunity to call a vote of (NO CONFIDENCE) in this Mob of Gangsters, and once and for all be Rid of the lot of them. Overthrow the LOT, and close them down, for Gods sake.
I just dont understand at all why all these people need legal advisers. when its question of the aisleen centre mrs buckley announced that her solicitors would ne called in if any doubt was mentioned about how thay run things. its all running the wrong way round.i agree that without mossie help it would be impossable to understand. as for the office slang i get a bit lost myself.
Thanks mossie only for you we survivers wouldnt have a clue how crocked this group ROP SECOND CHANCE are. im from cork im an old penisioner
and cant afford to go to Waterford (or take up Walshes offer of 80euros to stay the night in the HOTEL. Its so blatent that this meeting is rigged before it starts.It reeks of Treanon and his sly ways of miliputation of survivers with his legal jargon,this crowd are using us survivers to pay their wages and expenses no voting of Directors no
say in the election of committee members. Walshes son afraid to face the members (im sure Daddy will
defend him (keep the the money in the family).
Asthis meeting is been held and the likes of me have no way of traveling to waterford please any
surviver who can attend for gods sake dont leave these PARASITES get away with there rigged meeting
It was bad enough the been abused by the religious orders now our own greedy B!!!!!!s
are worse than them
Some questions for the Legal Advisor.
I would like to suggest to Survivors who will be attending (Right of Place ) meeting on the 20th of December, to put this question to the Legal Advisor who will be chairing the meeting to, simply explain to the Survivors the company’s Rules, and HOW they are reflected in this Legal Document drawn up by the Legal Advisor.
Has anybody in this group (Right of Place Second Chance) ever explained what their rules are, or HOW their company operates?
Have they ever explained to the Survivor, what Role the Survivor plays in the company, what rights He or She has, which they ARE entitled to know.? I bet you will be very surprised as to what is actually Hidden in this document, and your eyes will be opened when it is explained to you, If it is explained to you.
Has the Legal Advisor of ROP/SC ever explained to members, what they ought to know about the Company, and the role the Survivors have to play in the Company, and what you get in return for being a member of the Company. Do you really know what you could be signing up for for?
You ARE entitled to be told Truthfully all about this, by their Legal Advisor. I bet He or She, has Never ever explained anything about the company, and the consequences it holds for the Survivor.
You will have to Demand from the Board of Directors, answers, to these questions on the night of the AGM. You most probably will NOT get a straight answer from the Committee, BUT, you MUST persevere with the Truth.
Do you have Any idea what you have signed up to? IF you have signed up to anything. Most probably NOT, and these people, you may be assured will NOT talk about it, if they have their way. You all have a right to know how this company is operating with your (SO CALLED CONSENT)
They are drawing their funding from the HSE on the strength of tour name on their Database, which I bet was drawn up without your consent..
Do NOT be afraid to ask these questions, and do NOT take any old answer, because they have proven in the past, that they CANNOT be trusted.
Micheal, I have asked you some questions recently regarding transportation for the Cork/Kerry members. You did tell me to ask you if i had any more questions. You have NOT replied to my query. You said you like to be Transparent to your (SO CALLED) membership. Is your hidden agenda in the New Coimpany Rules being Transparent to your members?
Will this meeting of ROP/SC on the 29th December be very Transparent Micheal? I very much doubt it. You have your agenda already set out.
Remember this lot tried to impose this Dictatorship in The Imperial Hotel in Cork some time ago, but was met with fierce resistance. For this reason, and you may well be assured, that this IS the only reason that the AGM is being held in Waterford.
The reason is, to make it as Difficult as possible for the Cork/Kerry (SO CALLED) membership to attend this meeting, so you can BULLDOZE your Rotten Policies that ye have concocted over the last few months by your Legal Advisor.
I really hope the Survivors attending this meeting will have the Gumption to make this meeting as difficult for you all at that top table, by putting you on the spot, just as the Rebels did in Cork, and MAKE these Parasites explain if FULL the contents of their company rules, and the Role the Survivor plays.
And again i see, Mr Francis Treanor will be Chairing this meeting, and again, Mr Francis Treanor is (NOT) on the Board of Directors of (Right of Place Second Chance) so WHY is he Chairing this meeting? Please explain?
Of course Micheal as usual you will (NOT) explain as you never have, so all this BULL about (Transparancy and Honesty) is nothing more than a load of old Gibberish you have got so used to dishing out. Is this what you have learned from your Father, the Union Man? But then of course, you are NOT going to be attending Micheal now, Are You? Is Daddy afraid you will be Bullied?
If you want to put these people on the spot on the 20th of December, and you want to get some answers that you have always wanted answers to, do NOT be afraid to ask, and do NOT let them Fob you off with any excuse, as they WILL try.
It is also VITAL that you make sure that the minutes of the meeting are properly recorded, and logged, also demand a copy for your records. You WILL need them at a later stage, as they have been well known in recent meetings NOT to record the minutes, for their own selfish reasons.
They should have put reelections for a New Board of Directors on the Agenda, but as Micheal pointed out in a recent posting, he said the Board of Directors were elected for (2) years, which of course is a BLATANT LIE, this Board were (NOT) elected at all.
If you need to make changes in the Board of Directors, Now is the time to put forward a vote of NO CONFIDENCE in that lot that say they have your interests at heart.
Get them out of there, it will be the best thing you have ever done, for yourselves and All of them other Survivors who need proper change in their lives, because if you dont you will be putting up with the same old Bull that you have been enduring for the past two years.
What these people are doing is trying their utmost to secure funding from the NEW Trust Fund. The fund which they say they were against. They were Never against this fund, but always for it. WHY, because without it, they would be HISTORY, this is their main GOAL. They are relying on it to keep them all in work for the next few years, until this New Trust Fund will eventually be depleated. When this Trust Fund is finally depleated, you may rest assured that this Contraversial group (Right of Place Second Chance) will never again be heard of. (FACT) Call an end to this group now, once and for all.
One more thing Survivors should remember, and is very important
If you originally signed up to be a member of (Right of Place Buildings Project Ltd) you signed up to abide by that Companies rules, and regulations, and would have agreed to have your name and details on their Database?
The New Company (Right of Place Second Chance) is not the same, it’s a completely New Company, with New Rules and Regulations. If you did NOT sign up to this New Company, and you are receiving mailings from them, then your Name, and details ARE being held Illegally by this company, and most probably being used to obtain funding by this group, in your name. You should take Immediate steps by Contacting your Solicitor, and The Data Protection Commissioner, and have the matter Investigated Immdiately .
Yes indeed Monica. We understand only too well that this is where these people gathered the names for their Database.
You are Absolutely Correct when you say that these people are NOT members of this group, and more than likely, are not members of Any
group. At least NOT that they know of.
Yet Monica, it seems that the HSE has no problems in funding these people, on the LIES that they supply them with.
They have not once asked the Survivors what they think, and take the word of the group so called leaders. We are taking this whole Saga too softly. We need to gather the names of ALL Disgruntled Survivors, from everywhere and march to the HSE offices with a Petition, and make them listen. It’s the only way, nothing else will do.
Is there any way Monica that you could accumulate all these people’s names so we could put a petition together, and MAKE these HSE people listen. Perhaps if we could get people to write to us who have NOT signed to these groups, we may be able to get it in the papers, and Force these funders to listen to the Survivors speak.
We can talk about these Gangsters day in and day out, but until the day we take action and do something about it, and say, Enough is Enough, these Parasites will sit back and let it continue. They have nothing to lose, and everything to gain.
It’s looking extremely suspicious that the HSE are trying to cover up the mess they have made of the whole thing.
Over 600 for Cork
Are you sure many of these members are NOT the ones that right of place used for people who went ot any of there original meetings in the USA. it’s my understanding that ROP got these names from a source . These people are NOT NOT NOT members and never were. their names and addresses were given to Noel C Barry when he went to the states and he put them on his data base, claiming all the millions of tax payers money from the department and also the HSE. I know people in the USA who are furious that this group have their names on their data base and never once gave their permission.
Micheal,
The reason you are keeping an eye on this site is simply for your own information, you need to see what Survivors are saying about your group (Right of Place Second Chance.
If your lot were to put up the information Survivors need to access as you claim to do on your own site, then perhaps they would not need to rely on this site, or indeed any other site.
Your site as you well know displays NO information whatsoever. You Cannot tell me any different. I will apologise (IF) i am wrong, but you know only too well that i am correct.
Have your group (Right of Place Second Chance) got any idea whatsoever of the Anger Survivors in all the regions hold for you? Do you really care how they feel? No i dont believe you do.
You speak about having direct contact with Survivors. What is your Website for? Your group said in previous discussions that you hoped to interact with all your Membership through your Site. You have (NOT) done this. I think the only reason you are posting on this site, and the Shame of Ireland site is, because your funding has been cut. (AND RIGHTLY SO.) Funding to your group should be severed right away, and you should be disbanded altogether, as you are doing absolutely NOTHING for Survivors,
How dare you say that and i quote (“and it just happens that i work for Right of Place and therefore am in a position to comment” ) You work for Right of Place Micheal not just by chance, as you indicate, but because your father Mr Michael Walsh had a lot of pull to have you get the job, as you are his son, and for NO other reason, Neopotism as i have previously stated.
If you are trying to correct, incorrect information Micheal, may i suggest that you start with your own website first and get it in order. One particular lady was asking you about a fishing outing, and you had’nt even got the decency to reply to the lady, your’e something else the lot of you.
Can you answer me a few simple questione Micheal as you said you would.
(1)How do you expect All the Survivors from the Cork/Kerry region to travel to Waterford for this meeting on the 20th?
(2) Will (Right of Place) lay on Busses to transport their Members down from Cork/Kerry, or will they offer them expenses to attend?
(3) What makes you believe that the Cork/Kerry membership can afford the transportation costs to get to Waterford, not to mention the reduced Hotel booking fee of €80.00 per night you advertise to stop over. You really ARE having a laugh Micheal, are you not?
I have it on good authority the amount of members you say you speak for in these areas.
(1) Cork members (650)
(2) Waterford (60)
(3) Galway (70)
(4) limerick (90)
(5) Kerry (120)
As you can see Micheal, the Cork and Kerry regions is where the Majority of the Membership for (ROP) you (CLAIM) to have are living. I wonder if you sent every one of these Survivors an invite to your meeting?
How do you explain Micheal that after well over a year in office, The Board of Directors, along with your (Legal Advisor) have NOT managed to set up a committee in Cork and Kerry? Yet this again is where the overall majority of the membership of ROP live?
This may i suggest Micheal is NOT about being fair and holding meetings in other regions. No, this is all about NOT having the courage to face this membership who you Claim to represent in the Cork/Kerry regions, Members who will NOT put up with being told LIE after LIE.
HERE ARE JUST SOME OF THE NEW RULES INTRODUCED BY RIGHT OF PLACE SECOND CHANCE.
THESE RULES WERE NEVER PUT TO THE MEMBERSHIP TO BE VOTED UPON AND, AGREED UPON.
Under the New Rules of the company, the Board of Directors have the absolute discretion to impose a, “Life Subscription To The Company”. on unsuspecting Survivors.
The Board of Directors are also considering Imposing “Annual Subscriptions” under these New Rules.
It is Morally Unethical to incorporate into the New Rules of the Company ‘Right of Place Second Chance’ a clause, which would impose financial hardships on Survivors.
It should be Illegal to write into any Company Constitution, Rules, that have NOT been agreed, or voted upon, by the Membership of the company, yet that is exactly what ‘Right Of Place ‘ have done.
Fact:-
When the current Board of Directors were elected/appointed, it was agreed that, because of the contentious manner in which they were elected, they would hold office until their first AGM.
Then it would be the Membership of ‘ Right Of Place’ who would elect the New Board of Directors, and NOT the current one sanctioned by the HSE.
It would now appear that the organisation is under the control of a Legal person, + Mr Michael Walsh, and his Son Micheal, and all sanction by the HSE yet again .
PLEASE NOTE CAREFULLY THE FOLLOWING:-
Under the New Rules of the company, unless you (Formally) apply in writing to the company for membership, you will (NOT) be a member of (Right of Place Second Chance)
This means that anyone who turns up for the AGM meeting in Waterford on the 20th of December, will (NOT) be a member, and therefore will (NOT) be eligible to vote on ANY of the issues that will be raised at that meeting.
If however you are asked to fill in an Application form at the door before entering, be absolutely sure to have a Solicitor with you, to explain the rules of the Constitution that you will be signing up to.
IMPORTANT NOTE ON ‘Accounts:-
Para 76, Of the Companies Constitution.
A copy of every balance sheet which is to be laid before the AGM, together with a copy of the Directors report shall; not less than (21) days before the date of the AGM, be sent to every member.
After all, this is (Supposed) to be a proper AGM, and NOT one run by Mr Noel C Barry as in the old days. (NO MINUTES, NO AGENDA, NO TREASURERS REPORT, NO SECRETARYS REPORT, AND FINALLY, NO VOICE.) Those days (We Thought) were gone?
SOME MORE STARTLING NEW RULES CONCOCTED BY GUESS WHO. ?
Another couple of New Rules introduced by the company, which (NO ONE) has been informed about are:-
All Notices, resolutions, or motions must be sent in writing to the Secretary at least (2) weeks before any AGM.
The Board of Directors have the right of VETO over any such notices.
This is Tantamount to Dictatorship. (MEMBERS AGAIN WILL HAVE NO SAY)
THIS ONE IS A CLASSIC:-
At AGM’s, Members may (NOT) speak for more than (5) minutes, unless INVITED to do so by the Chairman.
I INVITE ALL MEMBERS TO ASK FOR A COPY OF THE CONSTITUTION AND TO GET YOUR SOLICITOR TO READ IT BEFORE SIGNING UP TO THIS ORGANISATION, OTHERWISE, YOU COULD BE AGREEING TO PAY ANNUAL SUBSCRIPTIONS TO THESE BANDITS.
SUGGESTION
It would be in the interest of every Member of (Right of place second Chance) to contact this Legal advisor of (ROP) and ask He, or She to please explain to their Membership, what The company’s Constitution is, and make sure it is explained to them in a Language that the Survivor completely agrees with, and understands.
Any person running a company should have NO problems whatsoever in explaining to it’s membership truthfully how the company policy effects them, Unless the said company has something to hide. Do not be afraid to ASK.
They certainly do Paddy, its a real pity they don’t keep such a close eye on their So Called members, they claim to represent.
You see Paddy they wont dare to put any of these facts you have posted on your site up on their own, because they do NOT want Survivors to know what is happening behind the scenes.
All they give Survivors when they look for real help is The Mushroom Syndrome, they keep them in the dark and fill them full of S**T.
Like i said earlier, they want us all to log onto their Site, and this is classed as a hit, they then show these stats to their Sponsors, and draw their funds on this. Liars the lot of them.
When you tell face ROP with facts and the (Truth) a word they do Not know the meaning of, you are branded a Troublemaker, and you have to be got rid of under all circumstances, as you are a Threat to them.
This type of carry on has happened quite a lot since ROP was formed. Just like Political Parties, you either vote with them or you are OUT.
It’s time ALL Survivors once and for all tell this lot in Lower Glanmire Road where to go, and be done with the lot of these groups who say they are working for Survivors.
They are NOT working for you, only themselves.
Disband these Group Leeches now, once and for all, and use the money that the HSE are wasting on these Parasites for their massive expenses and Lavish lifestyles, on the Survivors who so desperately need it most.
I recall this time last year writing again on this site about the same thing. A year later, NOTHING has changed.
Michael he must be a member of a political party
(ie ff. fg. or labour) to hold the office ,thats why
he is mayor ,
as usual you never answered my question on the Directors
Oh forgot to say Paddy
There are so many Right of Places that it gets me confused. Like Right of Place, then Right of place second chance when are we going to get Right of Place “CHANCERS”?
PAddy
Do you not know by now? Sure everyone goes to your website first, well not just first, they go to your website full stop, as the other websites have absolutely no information about anything on them. CB does not have a website and many of the others do not have a website so everyone if they want to know what’s going on go to wwww.paddydoyle.com or the http://www.godsquad.com
Well noted Paddy
My opinion is to keep an eye on this and Shame of Ireland website’s as many of the people who view these sites are not members of Right of Place, or indeed any group.
As such, I am interested in helping Survivors who we may not have direct contact with and ensure that every person has access to our services (wheter they actually use it or not). The most important thing is ensuring Survivors have the access to the services we provide. Reasoning for discussions taking place on this website is that the comments are left here, and as a fan I obviously see them.
On a personal note, I do also enjoy and appreciate your website (and have for a long time) and it just happens that I work for Right of Place and therefore am in a position to comment. Unlike any other representative of ROP, who do not access this website.
So that’s a slight bit of flattery and a large amount of logic :)
(again I leave these comments to try and correct incorrect information, for those who do not have direct info from us)
It’s about transparency and those who do not want to use our website have access to somebody from ROP that they can ask questions directy to – which can only be seen as a positive!
ROP sure do keep an eye on this website. Should I be flattered or wonder why discussions such as this doesn’t take place on a website of their own. Paddy.
Reply by Micheál
Hi Mossie,
May I just correct a few inaccuracies in your previous post as ensuring Surcivors have correct information is crucial.
First and foremost the Waterford office has not become the new Headquarters for Right of Place Second chance. Indeed the facilities that we have available to us are quite basic and would not have the facilities that would necessitate a HQ for a national / international organisation.
In addition to this I am always willing to place information on our website and have shown this by adding items of information that Survivors have asked.
The reason for the Limerick office closing (which is not permanent) is as a result of budget cuts and a review of our regional offices to determine the feasability of each office. Indeed we will continue to do this into the future. Each region has a responsibility to it’s membership and will be under constant review to ensure it is meeting Survivors needs in that region.
To re-iterate to all our Cork members, our Cork / Kerry office is by far the busiest office in relation to calls and will remain the HQ. We also hope, as already stated, to create further offices in regions that we find are becoming increasingly busy. Already the Dublin region has increased calls into our office in Waterford so in the New Year we will be investigating the possibility of creating a regional office or support in Dublin specifically. One of the problems before was that everything was centralised in Cork which meant access to information and services was difficult If you lived outside the Cork/ Kerry region.
This has already changed, the regional offices has allowed greater transparency, greater access to Services and it shows in the sheer volume each office is getting. We have also seen a Hugh increase in numbers contacting the Cork office. So much so that as our National HQ we need to explore the possibility of employing an additional Outreach officer.
Finally our AGM will be held in Waterford this year, our annual report will be launched in Dublin and next years AGM will be in Limerick or Galway.
This is all part of ensuring Survivors have access to information throughout the country. Surely access to support and information in every region is important?
Cork is our National HQ and will remain so, Waterford is the Headquarters for the Eastern Region ONLY.
I hope this clears up a few points and I wish you well with your meeting.
To Bill,
All parties may have agreed to the trust fund but the Mayor of Waterford City was not a Dail deputy at any stage and therefore had no direct involvement or decision on the trust fund.
He has however assisted us mainly on gaining contacts, helping with housing and social issues and in our region adds weight to Survivors cause.
These are the people that we need support from as an individual to advance the lives of Survivors. It is destructive to attend a meeting under the presumption that he should be down on his hands and knees…. If we take this attitude why would he continue to assist Survivors and that is the only issue that should matter – how he can help Survivors!
Michael why should the Mayor of Waterford adress your A.G. M.Remember all parties voted for the trust fund against the wishes of all survivers
also Mr Francis Traenor (who cracks the whip and
ye lot all jump) He and Noel Barry and C Buckley
are the main instigators why we have this trust
fund.
As far as im concerned the Mayor should go down on his knees and apoligise to Survivers who attend your RIGGED A,G.M MEETING.
as you said the mayor will adress delegates, does
that mean we can vote for the 3 vacant Directors
positions,i got no nomination forms
as usual a lot of nice words and B!!!S!!T,YE ARE NOT FOOLING ANYONE
Micheal, may i ask you a couple of questions. (1) Why will you NOT be attending the AGM in your own region in Waterford? You are SUPPOSED to be the Outreach Officer, or (Manager) as you have just called yourself in your letter to your So Called Members?? i find this totally Unacceptable.
If your Cork offices are so busy as you say, then WHY did your Outreach Officer, Miss Ann-Marie Crean issue a letter to So Called members on the 30th of November, stating that she was only capable of doing outreach on Mondays, and Fridays??
Regarding your Website, i ask everyone please look at it, there is absolutely NOTHING on it, it’s well over 6 months since anything was put on it. It’s giving nothing but RUBBISH. You are showing us Survivors NOTHING. I would ask everyone to look at it. But i think Micheal you would class every time someone logs onto that site as a hit, wouldn’t you, and those stats would be shown to your whoever gives you the funding. Very Very Cleaver Micheal.
I have noted Micheal a lot of your membership here have NOT received an invite to your Waterford AGM. what is the reason for this? Will a member who turns up on the day for your AGM be allowed access to the Hall, or will they be turned away? Not too difficult question for you to answer Micheal.
I also have noticed that the Re-elections for the (Board of Directors) for the coming year are NOT on your agenda for the AGM, surely this is NOT proper procedure.
Do you all intend to stay in your cosy positions for another two years, with total disregard for the Survivors you all say you Represent?
What you are all doing, and i will say it yet again is Totally Illegal, and you all know it.
Where ever you got these three words, TRUTH JUSTICE and HEALING, please return them, because you Obviously do Not know what you are talking about.
Hi Monica,
Absolutly if we can receive support to employ an additional Outreach Worker it will be advertised so that Survivors, their family and professionals can apply for the job.
Ultimately, it will be an impartial representative of the HSE and department of Education to choose the person, to ensure in their opinion they are best placed to provide the supports and expertise needed
But with funding constraints and budget cuts we are still only exploring the possibility of this, it is something that is vital – as our report will suggest the volume of calls means that we need to Examine the possibility very closely. I stress again, there is no definitive answer on this, but should there be any job in the future, it will be advertised.
Isnt it disgraceful to think This support is needed for Survivors but budget cuts harv not allowed it.
Hope this helps Monica
Michael
Thats wonderful news, you are creating jobs, well done in this gloomy economy it’s just great we have people creating jobs. I presume Michael this vacancy will be advertised nationally and should also be on the Department of Educations and also the HSE website and maybe even the church website website they are the funders of your organisation
This has already changed, the regional offices has allowed greater transparency, greater access to Services and it shows in the sheer volume each office is getting. We have also seen a Hugh increase in numbers contacting the Cork office. So much so that as our National HQ we need to explore the possibility of employing an additional Outreach officer
Hi Mossie,
May I just correct a few inaccuracies in your previous post as ensuring Surcivors have correct information is crucial.
First and foremost the Waterford office has not become the new Headquarters for Right of Place Second chance. Indeed the facilities that we have available to us are quite basic and would not have the facilities that would necessitate a HQ for a national / international organisation.
In addition to this I am always willing to place information on our website and have shown this by adding items of information that Survivors have asked.
The reason for the Limerick office closing (which is not permanent) is as a result of budget cuts and a review of our regional offices to determine the feasability of each office. Indeed we will continue to do this into the future. Each region has a responsibility to it’s membership and will be under constant review to ensure it is meeting Survivors needs in that region.
To re-iterate to all our Cork members, our Cork / Kerry office is by far the busiest office in relation to calls and will remain the HQ. We also hope, as already stated, to create further offices in regions that we find are becoming increasingly busy. Already the Dublin region has increased calls into our office in Waterford so in the New Year we will be investigating the possibility of creating a regional office or support in Dublin specifically. One of the problems before was that everything was centralised in Cork which meant access to information and services was difficult If you lived outside the Cork/ Kerry region.
This has already changed, the regional offices has allowed greater transparency, greater access to Services and it shows in the sheer volume each office is getting. We have also seen a Hugh increase in numbers contacting the Cork office. So much so that as our National HQ we need to explore the possibility of employing an additional Outreach officer.
Finally our AGM will be held in Waterford this year, our annual report will be launched in Dublin and next years AGM will be in Limerick or Galway.
This is all part of ensuring Survivors have access to information throughout the country. Surely access to support and information in every region is important?
Cork is our National HQ and will remain so, Waterford is the Headquarters for the Eastern Region ONLY.
I hope this clears up a few points and I wish you well with your meeting.
Very Important Meeting for ALL Survivors.
I am posting this article on Paddy’s Website, The God Squad, because even though ROP have their own Website, they wouldn’t publish this important information.
A very important meeting for ALL Survivors, has being arranged, and will be held in ( The Victory Outreach Center) Cork. Beside the Bus Station, and near the Dogs Home, on Saturday 17th, December, starting at 19.00hrs. All are welcome.
It is a very very important meeting, and i would strongly URGE all Survivors to please make a very strong effort to attend. It affects us all in so many ways as Survivors.
The meeting will be Chaired by (Mr Thomas Cronin, and Mr Paul Cronin,) with other guest speakers also in attendance.
It is particularly in the best interests of Survivors from the (Cork and Kerry) branches who at this point in time are (NOT) represented in their areas by any group, to attend this very important meeting, otherwise, Mr Michael Walsh and his (Board of Directors) will, eventually close down the Cork branch of (Right of Place Second Chance)
Cork is where the organisation (ROP) was (Founded) and (Started) but Mr Michael Walsh has now decided to move their Headquarters from Lower Glanmire Road in Cork, to Waterford, his home town. Waterford is now to be the NEW Headquarters of (ROP) How very convienent dont you agree?
Very very shortly, there will be only (2) branches of (Right of Place Second Chance) left in the country if Mr Michael Walsh gets his way. One in (Waterford) the home of the Chairman (Mr Michael Walsh,) and, the other one in (Galway) the home town of Mr Francis Treanor.
Anyone can see exactly what they are doing.
The only people that will greatly benefit from these moves will be Mr Michael Walsh, (Chairman ROP) and Mr Francis Treanor, (Outreach Co-Ordinator) who will be claiming their travelling expences commuting between these two branches. They will not have to worry about any of us survivors down there in Kerry or Cork. Not that they ever did.
I have been informed by the organisers that a full canteen will be available on the evening with Tea coffee etc. But please no alcohol, as we need this meeting to be proper and dignified for all in attendance.
I have also been informed by Mr Thomas Cronin to point out, if any survivor who is attending the meeting, and needs to ask any questions prior to the meeting on Saturday 17th December, you may do so by Calling Tom on the Mobile No (0879304797) and he will be more than delighted to assist anyone who needs to ask him a question.
For anyone who has Not been informed, the (Limerick) branch office was closed a few days ago. This information was extracted from the Website of (ROP)
Once again i must stress, this is a very very important meeting concerning All Survivors, and i Urge you all to make every effort to attend, and listen to what the speakers have to say.
If you have Any questions on whatever matter, the speakers will be more than happy to facilitate everyone who attend. The meeting will start at (19.00hrs) there will be a break for refreshments at approx (20.00 has) and the meeting is expected to finish on or about (21.00 hrs) Of course it may run a little longer than expected depending on the questions that will have to be answered.
I must stress that this meeting is (NOT) about starting another group, but relating to the existing ones.
We hope to see a very large attendance at this Crucial meeting on Saturday December 17th.
Thank you all in advance.
I understand what you mean paddy . its the only way for us who live abroad to find out about all these people.if it wasent for these two sites we wouldnt know anything at all. its a terrable way to do things. by leaving all of us in ignorance we think too much or guess to much.
Yep Paddy is right again, it’s easy to get carried away with a key board. Problem is Paddy their website is not up yet, it’s under construction and besides they wouldn’t let us post anything unless it says how wonderful and powerful there are, not just their website Paddy all the other websites, well, not all, cause all of them don’t have a website but they got the money from the department and what I want to know is how come Paddy they didn’t spent money on a website letting people know what is happening, they post out instead which costs more money Paddy. Ask christine, she’s got no website. Ask John Kelly. I phoned him once Paddy to ask him what’s going on and when is the next meeting and do you know what? Paddy he said “Watch the newspapers”
This site is in danger of turning into a discussion on the Munster support group. That is not it’s purpose. Future issues regarding this Group should be addressed to their website, if they have one. I trust you will understand. Paddy.
Hi John, nothing on the address you gave me. I think that person is supposed to be their group Secretary, for what thats worth. Not very efficient i might add, but i guess beggars cant be choosers?
http://www.holistictherapiescork.com/
Munster Suvivors Group main sponsors
Anyone for a Massage?
check munstersuvivers cathy collans meeting
Hi, could anybody shed any light on the meeting that has taken place in Cork this weekend by the (Munster Survivors Group)? I believe they only had about 22 people that attended. If anyone has any information regarding same, please put it on Paddy’s site. thanks.
Ah Sorry Pauline
That was supposed to go with the text of the new group climbing the mountain for funds down in Kerry
Monica
ps. send all you can Pauline, they need it as I don’t think the Department of Education or the HSE are giving out any more money to these groups who set up nearly every week a Limited company
It was a nun singing climb every mauntain. what a load of useless advise. she reminded me of the nuns singing in goldenbridge. singing love songs to jesus while children fainted.
If they or any other body or group hold data on individuals without the consent of those individuals then it is a matter for the Data Protection Office. Google it!
Monica, i am not surprised as to what measures these people will go to claim funding from the Government, I was told recently from their group Secretary, that they do NOT as of yet have a Database. This i most certainly do NOT believe.
Was it not their Chairman who originally wrote up the Controversial Database used by (Right of Place Second Chance?)
I do really hope that whoever they go to for funding will Vet them thoroughly, and Not hand over money to them without checking out their real motives.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DOb347yyjkE&feature=related
Pauline,
below should have been attached to Climb Every Mountain
Munster Survivors Support Services
Only one week to go to the climb. Please share our page with all your friends, and ask them to like it please. If you or anyone you know can help us out on the day or indeed take a sponsorship card to sponsor all those who are climbing in solidarity and remembrance for all deceased and living Survivors of Industrial, Clerical and Foster Care Childhood Abuse in Ireland, we would greatly appreciate any support you can give to us. Thanking you in advance
Like · Comment · August 27 at 8:21am ·
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Munster Survivors Support Services
Sponsorship Cards for our Climb of Carrauntoohill on 4th September next are available by contacting our fb page or by phoning Geraldine on 021 4359137. If you are in a position to take a Sponsorship Card in support of all who are climbing on the day, that would be great. Even better, if you wish to partake in the climb, we would love to see you on the day.
Like · Comment · August 21 at 12:04pm ·
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Munster Survivors Support Services shared a link.
Munster Survivors Support Services Website Coming Soon
http://www.munstersurvivorssupportser?vices.org.
Like · Comment · August 15 at 10:29am · .
Munster Survivors Support Services and Geraldine Bourke like this..
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RECENT ACTIVITY
Munster Survivors Support Services edited their Description and About.
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Munster Survivors Support Services
Serenity Therapies is one of our Sponsors and is also sponsoring our climb of Carrauntoohill and will be facilitating therapy sessions on the day of our climb on the 4th September next. Please come along and support us on the day in solidarity and remembrance for all Survivors of Child Abuse in Ireland.
Holistic Therapies Cork – Welcome to Serenity Holistic Therapies
http://www.holistictherapiescork.com..
Like · Comment · August 15 at 6:45am · .
Munster Survivors Support Services and Geraldine Bourke like this..
Munster Survivors Support Services Aisling Therapies in Blackpool is also sponsoring our Climb of Carrauntoohill, providing a range of holistic therapies on 4th September next.
August 15 at 7:14am.
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Munster Survivors Support Services added a new photo.
15 August 2011
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Like · Comment · August 15 at 5:50am · .
Munster Survivors Support Services and Geraldine Bourke like this..
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RECENT ACTIVITY
Munster Survivors Support Services edited their Description and About.
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Munster Survivors Support Services
Sponsored Climb of Carrauntoohill, Co. Kerry – Sun Sept 4th 2011. In solidarity and remembrance for all Survivors of Child Abuse.
To help raise funds for Munster Survivors Support Services providing services to Survivors of Institutional, Clerical & Foster Care Child Abuse in Ireland. Sponsorship Cards available Phone Ollie/Ger on 021- 4359137
Like · Comment · August 15 at 5:38am ·
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RECENT ACTIVITY
Munster Survivors Support Services edited their Website, Description and About.
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Munster Survivors Support Services joined Facebook.
· Like · Comment
Pauline
Which link was that? was it the first one? Hope some odd website didn’t attach itself to link
I went into your link monica. wow you should have given us a warning .
It says in the Company registeration that this company was register in October 2011
Differs from this
See below: from Linkedin
Ollie Burke’s Experience
Owner Munster Survivors Support Services
Currently holds this position
Chief Executive Officer & Senior Outreach Officer Munster Survivors Support Services
November 1999 – Present (12 years 1 month)
For those of you who are not on Linkedin
Join Today·Sign In.Ollie Burke
Chief Executive Officer & Senior Outreach Officer at
Location
Ireland
Industry
Nonprofit Organization Management
Ollie Burke’s Overview
Current •Owner at Munster Survivors Support Services
•Chief Executive Officer & Senior Outreach Officer at Munster Survivors Support Services
Connections 1 connection
Ollie Burke’s Experience
Owner Munster Survivors Support Services
Currently holds this position
Chief Executive Officer & Senior Outreach Officer Munster Survivors Support Services
November 1999 – Present (12 years 1 month)
Overall responsibility for all aspects of Company Management and planning stratgy for servicing our client base. Also responsible for dealing with the Gvernment for Fubding Issues and matters in Srare Agencies pertaining to our clients.
Team leader of Board of Management of Group.
Asessing clients needs and organising the Outreach Programme to our Client Base.
Contact Ollie for:
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http://www.solocheck.ie/FreeIrishCompanyReport?companyNumber=505283&companyName=MUNSTER+SURVIVORS+SUPPORT+SERVICES+LIMITED
Company details if you want them also
http://www.linkedin.com/pub/ollie-burke/25/177/6a6
Mossie
They are on Linkedin as well
God they are moving fast
They will be no hiding we will fish them out
lol:)
Hey Mossie
They are getting people to sign up to their FACEBOOK PAGE. That’s a great way to show the Department of Education how many SURVIVORS they have.
A Voluntary Group run by Survivors supporting Survivors & their families of Institutional, Clerical and Foster Care Child Abuse in Ireland
Description
Unit 3 Frankfield Business Park, Ballycurreen Road, Cork. Tel 021 4359137. Mob: 087 0516070
Website launching soon
Website
http://www.munstersurvivorssupportservic…
Here’s to all the CLIMBERS
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DOb347yyjkE&feature=related
See below their facebook page
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Munster-Survivors-Support-Services/269407443073473?v=info
I have just been informed of a General Meeting that is taking place tomorrow in Cork at, 2.PM, 19th November, 2011.
The Meeting Room,
Holy Cross Church,
Avenue Du Rennes,
Mahon, Cork City.
This meeting is for the newly formed group named, (Munster Survivors Support Services)
I would strongly Urge everyone that has received correspondence from this Contraversial group over the last two days, to boycott this meeting. All they are up to is to get your Names and Addresses and your Details, just like other groups have done in the past, and use them for Funding like previous groups have already done.
It is Imperatieve, that you are NOT Steamrolled by this group, who are only in this for the very same reasons as previous groups.
They will promise you the Sun, Moon and Stars as before, but will yield Nothing. If you do attend, do Not be afraid to ask any questions you are not sure about, and make sure, that the answers you will get from them will be satisfactory.
These invitations were only posted out in the last two days, and gave their recipients little or No time to view what the whole thing they say is so important. Believe me, there is NOTHING important about this meeting.
This group has been registered recently as a limited Company, and their aim is to seek funding from whatever sources they can, and who ever thay can. They will be trying No Doubt to get signatures, and personal details from who ever they can. DO NOT GIVE YOUR DETAILS TO THIS GROUP PLEASE.
DO NOT, sign up to this group. Their agenda is NOT Honorable.
PLEASE BE WARNED.
I see where (Right of place Second Chance) has now moved it’s Headquarters to their home base of Waterford. How very cozy and convienent i must say. Does this now mean that your need to travel to Cork will no longer be needed? But i bet you anything, that you wont be cutting down on your expenses, will ye lads?
I see where you have clearly advertised that your Waterford branch has been in contact with (172) Survivors since the branch was set up in March of this year. Correct me if im wrong, but the Waterford branch is there a lot longer than that. Who are you kidding. Saying that, how many Survivors have you helped in this period? You say (172) were in contact, but how many were helped??
What was wrong with your Headquarters in Cork Mr Walsh? Were you getting homesick or what? You have all your Buddies beside you now, so you should all be nice and comfy, wont you?
Were the Cork lads too cleaver for ye or what? Personally i think they were, and you still have not had a proper meeting to elect a Cork Committee, after the last fiasco in the Imperial Hotel some months ago. You will Never forget that Saga now, will you? The Cork lads showed you a thing or two at that meeting did’nt they boys? No one will question you antics down in your own home grounds, and you will all be one Big Happy family.
You were right Micheal when you said, “those who suffered abuse should not be ashamed: they were not responsible for the wrongdoing” of course they should’nt, but you lot in (Right of Place Second Chance) most definately ought to be ashamed of yourselves with the way you are running that disgraced group.
May i remind you also Mr Walsh, you are NOT in any position to Demand anything from the state on behalf of Survivors, and may i also add that, you are NOT here to speak on our behalf as you so stated in your newspaper article you brazenly posted on your website.
It was good to hear that the Authorities have cut your funding at last. When it will be cut completely, ALL survivors will be very happy, because all of you in there will soon have to leave behind the lavish lifestyles you have all become so accustomed to, at the expense of the Survivors. This will be a great day indeed.
You must be really feeling the pinch now Mr Walsh. The Coffers all seem to be running dry. Would you like us all down here in Cork to start making collections for you, and run event’s and quiz nights to see if we can raise much needed funds to keep you all in your nice cozy lifestyles?
I see there is another group waiting to take over from you shortly. You may already be aware of who they are. They would be very close friends of your organisation at one time. It will be very interesting to see how they fare out in the not too distant future. Actually you would both compliment each another perfectly, as your motives and actions are almost identical. Maybe you could both merge with one another. Now that would be interesting? Very interesting indeed.
Anyone who feels or knows that information on them is being held without their consent can and should make a complaint to the Data Protection Commissioner. Click here http://dataprotection.ie/docs/Home/4.htm to access the Commissioner’s website where you can make a complaint. Paddy
This is a reply to a Survivor on the Shame of Ireland Site.
Thank’s Paddy for your kind remarks. These people are doing nothing but claiming funding from the HSE and other Government bodies for their own greedy causes. If there was any decency in ANY of them, you would do your best to help. But im afraid (AVARICE) is their game, and nothing else.
There is a new group now trying to get on-stream called (Munster Survivors Support Services Ltd) They CLAIM NOT to have a Database as of yet, but still they are able to send out letters to Survivors who have NOT signed up with them. I would strongly urge any Survivor, who has received letters from this group, and has NOT signed up with this recent group, to immediately contact the Ombudsman for The Freedom of Information, and INSIST this group be immediately Investigated.
We are sick and tired of Parasites using peoples names and details to obtain Funding from the HSE, and other Sponsors (ILLEGALLY) Survivors must NOW once and for make a Defiant Stand, and once and for all tell these (SO CALLED GROUP LEADERS) Enough is Enough.
I would strongly ask all Survivor groups to check with their Membership, to see if they have received mailing of any description from the groups, (Right of Place second Chance Ltd) and also the group (Munster Survivors Support Services) and if so to report the matter to their group leaders. Unless you have Initially signed up to these groups Personally, you should NOT be receiving correspondence from these listed groups. It’s VITAL this procedure is brought to a halt now, once and forever.
i cannot believe the government would insist in setting the statutory fund and expect the survivors to beg for whats rightfully theirs.For what the previous govt and present has done has not benefited the survivors.By the time the govt and most of the so call groups has finish fighting over the money,half the survivors will be dead.it is a total shame for all those greedy people who will pay for it one day.what goes around come around.god is watching.
Focus: An Abuse of Public Money?
The Sunday Times, February 1, 2004
The head of one victims’ group has accused others of being more interested in state funding than supporting the people they are there to help, write Siobhan Maguire and Dearbhail McDonald
It was the last meeting before Christmas of the National Office for Victims of Abuse (Nova) but the final item on the agenda struck an unseasonal note.
The leaders of victim support groups had been discussing routine matters with officials from the departments of health and education at Nova’s office in Ormond Quay in Dublin. But, clearing his throat, Tom Hayes, the secretary of the Alliance Victim Support Group, said he had one last issue to raise.
The Northern Ireland civil servant said he had a question “about the west of Ireland”. He wanted to discuss “a rumour” that Aislinn, a support group headed by Christine Buckley, had been sending members on free weekend breaks to the city. Hayes wondered how people were selected for these trips and if they were funded by government money.
Buckley, who was abused by the Sisters of Mercy at the Goldenbridge orphanage, was not present at the meeting. But a representative rebutted Hayes’s accusation, and said the drop-in centre for victims was not getting government funding for any such trips.
Hayes’s claims, which he later accepted were based on a misunderstanding, surprised most people at the meeting. Some believed it was a veiled attack against what is considered to be the leading Irish support group for victims of institutional abuse.
Last week Hayes, who spent eight years in an industrial school in Limerick, went public with other reservations he has about the plethora of groups that help victims. Institutional abuse had created a “cottage industry” of support groups, he said. Some of these groups “appeared more interested in receiving state funding than in helping victims”.
The remarks lifted the lid on a simmering dispute. For months, Hayes, whose group claims to represent more than 300 abuse victims, has been making criticisms in private to government officials. He has, in particular, challenged the quality of service offered by state-funded victims’ groups.
Two weeks ago Hayes complained to the departments of health and education — which both fund survivors’ groups — that some victims had claimed they were badly treated at certain groups. He told officials he was concerned about the “volume of complaints” he said he had received about the Cork-based Right of Place, which has assisted 1,800 former residents, and Aislinn, which says it has helped more than 3,500.
Survivor groups reacted angrily when Hayes went public last week. “Tom Hayes is wrong,” said Tony Treacy, the housing officer for Right of Place. “What he has said about us is totally unjust and untrue. He has never even been to see us in Cork.”
Buckley, whose harrowing account of the abuse she suffered featured in the 1996 documentary, Dear Daughter, reacted even more strongly. She instructed solicitors to issue letters warning against any defamatory allegations being made against Aislinn. Through her solicitors, Buckley said that, as far as she is aware, Hayes had no issues with her.
“The Department of Education and the Department of Health have excellent relations with Aislinn, and Buckley has no intimation that any complaint has been received from either,” her solicitors said.
Whatever the truth of Hayes’s charges, his characterisation of a “cottage industry” hit a raw nerve. Why are eight groups, most in receipt of public money, involved in counselling victims? Couldn’t Nova, the government agency, do the job? “It’s about compensation. It is about how much you will get and how long you have to wait for it,” says a victim who was counselled by one group. “The institutional mentality still reigns among survivors, they can’t move on.”
IN MAY 1999, two weeks after RTE screened States of Fear, a documentary detailing the horrors of institutional abuse, Bertie Ahern, the taoiseach, apologised to victims.
Ahern established the Commission to Inquire into Child Abuse, chaired by Justice Mary Laffoy, who resigned last year in a row with the government. The government also set up the Residential Institutions Redress Board — a compensation fund — and told former inmates of industrial schools who suffered physical or sexual abuse they were entitled to damages.
The final bill could be €1 billion, according to John Purcell, the comptroller and auditor general. The average payment to each claimant so far is €80,000.
The extent of the abuse caseload emerged last Friday when Laffoy reported that 4,128 allegations by 1,712 complainants have been brought to the commission.
The united front presented by victims in 1999 soon dissolved. Natural leaders such as Buckley, Hayes and Mick Waters quickly emerged and each set up their own groups.
“All the groups have their own voice, all have their own opinions, and they all see things differently,” says Waters of Survivors of Child Abuse (Soca) UK.
Last year Waters appealed to victims’ groups to unite or face exclusion from the consultation process on the future direction of the child abuse commission. John Kelly of Irish Soca — which has no connection to Soca UK — says groups “have to have a united approach”. But competition between the groups is now more vigorous than ever.
Last year, following huge payouts by the Catholic church to Mervyn Rundle and Colm O’Gorman — victims of paedophile priests — Buckley claimed survivors of institutional abuse were being treated as “third-class citizens” compared with those abused by diocesan priests.
Complicating the matter further, Let Our Voices Emerge (Love), a group of people with positive memories of institutional care, stepped into the arena to defend the religious orders. Buckley branded them “teacher’s pets” and Love retaliated by calling for better auditing procedures for victim support groups.
The Department of Education, which funds Nova, concedes there is no “formal quality control process” to assess the level of services, and “no formal complaints procedure” for dealing with complaints against support groups.
Senior officials privately admit they know all about the fighting. One official says it was “widely known” that conflict and personality clashes had started even before Laffoy was appointed. “This is an all-out turf war,” the official says. Each group “has its own agenda” and is interested in “feathering its own nest”.
“The groups are always having a go at each other and it has been like that for as long as I can remember. We have a remit to work with the support groups and make sure that we meet regularly to discuss any concerns. Of course, if allegations are being made we have to look into them.”
The comptroller is already reviewing a number of victims’ groups’ accounts. But the in-fighting is likely to worsen. Patrick Walsh of Irish Soca has branded Hayes’s comments “irrational” and “offensive”. Hayes remains defiant and believes his claims are being taken seriously by the government.
He also says “a culture of dependency” has engulfed the support groups. “What we have are organisations run for victims by victims, and it is like a vicious circle because victims end up in an environment where the past is always present,” he says.
Patricia Casey, a professor of psychiatry at University College Dublin, agrees this is a possibility. “The inherent danger with self-help groups is that unless they are headed by skilled and qualified facilitators, dependency can be induced and reinforced, rather than healing encouraged,” she says.
Hayes and his supporters want thorough reform. They are not calling for victims groups to be disbanded, but to be managed by fully qualified, independent professionals. But is the government likely to act, or is it still too wary of victims and too embarrassed about its role in turning a blind eye to institutional abuse?
LAST week Christy Mannion, an adviser to Micheal Martin, the health minister, held an informal meeting with Hayes and his wife Ruth, also a member of the alliance group.
The three met in Buswells hotel in Dublin and Hayes outlined his proposals for a uniform, professionally led victims’ group. The civil servant left an impression on Mannion, who found him “very sincere” and promised to raise his concerns with the minister.
The alliance group wants the centre to be under the control of the Department of Health. “It must be open to all victims of institutions and should be aligned to the national office with the overall responsibility vested in professionally trained personnel,” says Hayes. “It would be reasonable to expect that all other issues to do with the smooth running of a government centre such as health and safety, fire, security, confidentiality and a complaints procedure would be established as a matter of form.”
Martin and Noel Dempsey, the minister for education, will soon be briefed by their officials on the conflict between the groups and on ideas to reform the “cottage industry”. But discussions will not begin until the government deals with the criticism contained in Laffoy’s third interim report. Published last Friday, it again castigated the government for its failure to co-operate with the inquiry.
In the meantime, Hayes faces a chilly reception when Nova meets in two weeks. “I have no axe to grind but it is time to see some changes in the way victim support groups are managed and the quality of services being offered to survivors. I’m not going to be quiet. It’s a matter for the government now to step in and take control.”
Fighting for funds
Nova: the government agency established in 2000 to deal with the support groups. Nova got €460,000 from the Department of Education in 2001-2003
Aislinn Centre: Set up in 1999 by Christine Buckley. Since then it has received €184,279.56 from the state
One in Four: Set up by Colm O’Gorman. It received €504,000 in 2003
Right of Place: Since it was formed in 1999, Right of Place has received €1,422,476.91 in government funding
Le Cheile Eile: A small, Navan-based support group, it has received €4,000 in government support
Irish Soca: A support group run by John Kelly, it receives no public funding
Soca UK: (No link with above). Led by Mick Waters, it has assisted 1,500 Irish victims resident in Britain and received €162,382
Alliance for the Healing of Institutional Abuse: Led by Tom Hayes, it represents over 300 victims and has received €49,288 in government funding
Right to Peace: A Clonmel-based support group chaired by Michael O’Brien. It has received funding of €35,000
Outreach: A British-based support service which has received €1,357,696
Micheal, was it not you who said on your own Web-Site that you hoped to communicate with Survivors through your Web-Site. Now you are saying you need more money to give Survivors Free Tea and what not. Is it trying to Cod us all you are? Your’e all something else, really.
Why did you have to reduce the Office working hours in your Waterford branch. Why should a reduction in Funding have anything to do with reducing the hours worked?
You did say, did you not, that mose of these people you employ, work Voluntarily, if this is the case, that will have NO effect whatsoever on your Offices opening full time like they should.
Or is it, maybe the staff are refusing to work the proper hours because their wages have been reduced? i would say the Latter to be the case here, you must think we are all stupid.
You are NOT fooling some of us Mr Walsh, or your father either for that matter. You ALL WILL be found out in the end. Mark my words.
It looks likely that yet another group seems to be using the same Data-Base as the Controversial group(Right of Place second Chance)
If i can prove this is the case, this group will be reported to the (Ombudsman) of The Freedom of Information.
Far too many groups seem to be claiming a lot of their funding, on the backs of these Vunerable Survivors now, for far too long, and it’s high time this proceedure was brought to a halt.
I cannot understand, WHY the HSE, and other Government bodies, along with any other sponsors who supply funding to these Parasites continue to do so, without firstly checking out these groups, and also their (So Called Membership)who they CLAIM to represent. Surely this would be the proper way to ensure that the funding is channeled to the people that need it, and NOT to the money grabbers who say they represent Survivors.
I have already written a letter of complaint to the Ombudsman of The Freedom of Information, concerning one such group recently, and am expecting an Investigation into the practices of this group.
I would like to know what is meant by clarifying the problems survivers have in everyday life as there isint any direct contact between the different groups.we have been living with this most of our lives.we know the problems because we have them. your groups only assist those close to them and doesnt help the others in any way at all.so you dont know anything at all about the ones left with nightmares.so how can you be the spokesparson for them.
Mr Michael J Walsh,
I really dont know How you can call your Annual Report (Exciting News) It will be the only bit of news you have put up on your Site since ye started.
Committed to Honesty, and Transparancy? Who are you kidding, ye are Not, and never have been. I dont think that anybody in that place in Lower Glanmire Road, knows the meaning of the words (Honesty and Transparancy)
This report, no doubt, will be something to see. How long have you all been concocting this, i wonder? Things must be very very somber in (Right of Place second Chance) when ye have decided to put up a report for everyone to see. Not that i would believe one bit of it. You must ALL be feeling the pinch in there now. Would ye like me to start making collections for you, ye are so badly off?
I thought ROP/SC was a (Limited Company?) Would i be correct then in saying, that a (Limited Company) does NOT have to account to its So Called Membership? If this is indeed correct, i cannot for the life of me see, (WHY) you are going to all this trouble, to put all this useless information on your Site, because you are not fooling the Survivors.
This information you will publish, WILL be (YOUR) version of what you want Survivors to believe you have been doing since last year. What i am asking is, Will it be a (TRUE Picture) of what really happened. I very much DOUBT it.
I personally think that what you will be publishing will be Fictious Activities, to try and Appease the Fundmasters, that you, in Lower Glanmire Road are complying with (Good Governance Practices) but it will be ONLY, your Fundmasters who you will be Misleading, and NOT the Survivors you purport to represent.
Your Limited Company is Nothing more than a Disguise to claim more expenses from the government. The only people who benefit from the Funding, are those employed by your Limited Company.
You can show what you like in your report the work (YOU SAY) you do for Survivors, and what the funds are being used for. But WHY should we believe what (YOU) say? What reasons have we got to believe you? You have Never told the truth since you took over the running of ROP/SC, NEVER. And you will expect Survivors to actually believe this load of Gibberish you are going to fill them with shortly? You ARE kidding, are’nt you?
Survivors have been trying to voice their opinions, and concerns since the beginning of the Redress, but All of you in ROP/SC have failed Miserably time after time to listen to them. You proved this at the last ILLEGAL meeting you held in The Metropole Hotel in Cork some time ago when ye tried to elect a Cork Committee. Even after this Fiasco, you STILL have not learned anything. All you are concerned with is yourselves, and your expenses, and Nothing more.
You are STILL talking about the Trust Fund, as if there was some way you were going to be able to do anything about it, (YOU ARE NOT. ) And dont be trying to give Survivors false hopes of it being reversed, or it being revisited, because (IT WONT BE) and well ye all know it.
You are all running scared now in case ye lose ALL Funding from your resources. And personally i think it’s time ALL funding to you lot in that place ceased, once and for all, because you are NOT helping Survivors at all, only yourselves.
You say you hope to Highlight the many concerns that Survivors have with the Trust Fund, and also to Highlight the additional concerns Survivors need support in. What you are Actually are saying Micheal is, (GIVE US MORE FUNDING, OUR SALARIES ARE GETTING VERY SMALL) Tell me im wrong Micheal, but we are NOT stupid. You may well think that you are fooling the Survivors, but you are Damned well NOT fooling me.
You are in there long enough now to have Highlighted all these problems you talked about on your Web-Site recently, but STILL have done absolutely NOTHING about. Why are you still talking about it? Thats all you lot in there ever do, Talk about it, but do NOTHING. You must be really desperate at the moment in there, to stoop so low.
We ALL will, indeed be looking forward to your Announcement of the details in this Report. But i know it will be just more of the same from you, as we have had before. And you say, you hope it will be the beginning of ensuring a greater understanding of Survivors needs? You are having a laugh now Micheal, are’nt you? We most certainly will be watching vith vested interest, your Site, to see how much lower more B**L you will come up with.
Church’s asset portfolio included 10,700 properties
By Conor Ryan, Investigative Correspondent
Wednesday, October 26, 2011
AT its height, the Catholic Church in Ireland owned or occupied more than 10,700 properties across the country and controlled nearly 6,700 religious and educational sites.
The asset portfolio included schools, houses, halls, churches, convents, parks, sports fields, hospitals, farms, warehouses, shops and tracts of land.
This left a complex and restricted asset portfolio which cash-strapped dioceses, parishes and religious orders have had difficulty tapping into as they seek to adapt a number of difficulties facing the Church.
An investigation by the Irish Examiner looked at over 1.5 million individual property parcels in all counties excluding Dublin. This included a historical analysis of the relevant owners and leaseholders.
It revealed:
*At one point, one in every 100 rateable properties in the state was linked to the Catholic Church.
*The largest class of owners within this portfolio were individual priests rather than parish or diocesan bodies.
*20% of all Church properties were listed as houses.
*Despite selling over €667 million worth of land in the last 10 years, the 18 religious orders covered under the redress scheme retained much of their historical portfolio.
The information was gleaned from records in use up to the end of the 1970s, when homeowners still paid rates. This was supplemented with up-to-date data on commercial premises. The analysis was only possible through the recent computerisation of the Valuation Office.
The historical spreadsheet showed 56% of the Church’s property, which was not held by religious orders, was owned by individual priests.
The Catholic Communications Office said that parishes and dioceses were preparing registers of assets to meet industry standards. The majority of dioceses were transferring properties under the scope of general trusts.
Where properties were in another name, it said, they were held in trust for dioceses who would manage them into the future.
“As the number of priests working in parishes declines, some parish properties become vacant. Normally, their use is then determined by the bishop, the diocesan trust and the parish pastoral council.”
On top of sites listed in the name of dioceses, orders, parishes or specific priests, there were 2,080 churches or chapels where it was unclear if the owners were Catholic. This excluded over 400 places of worship held by other faiths.
There were also 2,600 primary schools where the owner was not obvious.
Yes I have always said Paddy is by far the best person to represent survivors,that is if Paddy so wishes.I have sent an e-mail to Minster Quinn regarding this situation lets see what occurs.
I appreciate the confidence people appear to have in me. Let’s see where all this goes. If I get the call to be on the Board as a representative of people who were abused while in the care of the State and religious orders then I will give it careful consideration. I would only accept the position if I felt that I could give it my very best ‘shot’ in the interests of the people for whom the Statutory Trust Fund is intended. My thanks to Monica and to Mossie for their faith in me. Paddy.
Mr Walsh,
If you had the decency to answer Survivors questions when you should have, you would NOT be getting the flack you are receiving from everyone. I am sick and tired from asking you questions, only to be met with silence, but i guess you are getting that from your Legal Advisor, arent you?
The purpose for you looking for more funding is, the HSE has cut your funding, (And Rightly So) Not before time. The HSE should cut you off completely, and with any luck, they will.
When will ye answer the question so many Survivors have asked you, and still continue to ask, what happened to all the Millions you lot in (Right of Place Second Chance) have got over the years, but CANNOT, or maybe, WONT account for? You have some nerve looking for more funding from the HSE.
You do NOT provide ANY services to Survivors Mr Walsh. All you do is refer people to the already existing services. Surely you dont need funding for that, do you? I think the HSE, and other organisations are slowly but surely seeing the antics you are all up to in Lower Glanmire Road.
We do NOT need any groups to represent us Mr Walsh, because its yourselves you are looking after, using our names, and nothing else. It also seems now that another group is using that same Data-Base as you in (Right of Place Second Chance) are. But dont worry, we will get to the bottom of that also in due course.
I see also, where ROP/SC have highlighted, and Reccomended, another group called Lamh Healing Foundation. How do you support these people? When a friend of mine contacted them recently about the possibilities of staying there for a few days, their email was not even replied to. So why exactly are these people advertising their services, if they have not even got the decency to respond to a Survivor who contacted them? Very weird Sir, would you agree?
As far as i can assertain Sir, the only thing you are interested in, is securing more funding from what ever sources as you possibly can, to enhance the lifestyles you all are now used to since taking over that Very Contraversial Group known as (Right of Place Second Chance) in Lower Glanmire Road.
As for your Web-Site Mr Walsh. I dont know why you bother with it. There has been Nothing added in weeks, you ask us to go and check this site to see all the good work you are doing? Where is it? No one can find it, it is just NOT there. As for trying to put something on your site, it’s a waste of time, because you wont post it. Take a bit of advice Mr Walsh, and close the damned thing down, and maybe you will save yourself some money that can be put to more deserving causes, for instance helping Survivors. Yeah, i think thats a better idea, dont you?
We have voted for paddy to represent us so it might be of help if the votes were again sent to the people who name the survivers on the board.at least thay will have less staff than the 11 groups in place so it will be easier to organise.after all too many chiefs cost a lot of money.
Yes Monica, i think that Paddy would be an excellent Candidate for the post, if he is willing to accept it of course. I will nominate Paddy as my choice when i email the Minister myself shortly.
Subject to people wanting me to represent them then I will give it careful consideration. Ultimately of course, It’s up to Minister Ruairi Quinn to make nominations to the Board of the Residential Statutory Trust fund.
Yes Paddy
I think we should be making tracks on who is going to represent us on the BOARD. I already posted that I would Nominate Paddy Doyle and have had no responce as yet. I have also emailed the Minister.
I’m now again asking people to Nominate Mr.Paddy Doyle to sit on the Board representing as an Independent all survivors worldwide.
Oh, I would also like Mr.Doyle to respond if he is willing that is?
Monica
Let’s call a halt to the Right of Place issues. I’m sure they have a website of their own to which comments can be sent. Paddy
micheal you are kidding no one all the money
is going towards the paid members of R O P’in CORK,
GALWAY, LIMERICK. AND KERRY. also their expenses,
you have never giving one example to justify
all that money r o p recieved
i cant wait for the treasures report for this year,the way you are talking you would think rop[
only got a few grand for gods sake man ye got HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS.IF YE HAD THE INTRESTS OF SURVIVERS YE SHOULD DO IT VOLENTRY.YE LOT MAKE ME SICK
Re: Micheal’s response to Monica.
So what you are actually saying Micheal is, (Right of Place Second Chance) along with all the other groups will Continue to be funded by the HSE, when the Present Education Fund is exhausted, and finished.
You consistently remind us also, Micheal how, (Right of Place Second Chance) and their New Board of Directors, as you say were categorically against the trust fund. What do you want Micheal, a Medal? It doesn’t matter what you were against, or for.
Your group knew right well that this fund was NOT going to be distributed among Survivors. You ALL in (Right of Place second Chance) knew exactly what was happening, and began shouting your mouths off, oh look here, WE are chasing the fund for survivors. You’re all Con men in that place, and you are not pulling the wool over our eyes.
You also talk about your Membership, Who are your Membership? The reason I ask you that is because, a lot of Survivors are receiving Literature from your group, who have not even heard of you, so I ask you again Mr Micheal Walsh, and your Father also, Just WHO are your so called Membership?
Who is this group, or Organisation you speak of Micheal, who you wish to highlight, who are willing to express the views of their Members, and Supporters? Surely it’s NOT (Right of Place Second Chance?) also it does NOT seem like this New statutory Trust Fund will be accepted Micheal, It bloody well IS already accepted, as if you didn’t already know. Also you in Lower Glanmire Road are not one bit worried about what it actually means to Survivors. What you really mean to say is, what will it actually mean for all of you Parasites in (Right of Place Second Chance. Do you think we are all stupid?
You have never been fighting for the issues concerning Survivors in ROP/SC, only for yourselves, don’t try and Cod us, how dare you.
What actually needs to be Highlighted at this point and time is, ALL Groups Need To Be Disbanded Immediately, without question. As they have contributed NOTHING but suffering to Survivors, and the Minister needs to be reminded of that by everyone. We have had more than our fill of Survivor Groups.
You talk very loosely about (UNITY) Micheal? What in Gods name do you know about (UNITY)? It is the likes of your group that will always keep Survivors apart with your Greed, and by always looking after yourselves. We are NOT blind. We can see right through your bunch in Lower Glanmire Road.
You know right well Micheal Walsh, as you stated yourself in paragraph 3 of your letter to Monica, that this Fund IS already going ahead. I’m sure you are worried now about how the fund will be established, as you say with Survivors Interests at the forefront. You are worried about, what is in it for ye, and nothing else.
The issue about the Board does NOT need to be addressed at a later date; it needs to be addressed NOW. And with any luck, NONE of you lot in (Right of Place Second Chance) should even think of applying to be nominated to sit on that Board, after the Disgraceful manner you ran, and are still running that place ROP/SC in Lower Glanmire Road in Cork.
If I have any say at all, I will do All in my power to ensure NONE of you lot get a look in at sitting on that Board. We need Decent Honorable Candidates for this job, and NONE of you lot fit the bill.
We are ALL sick of you bunch in there, and we DO NOT want ANY of you representing Survivors on ANY Board. We WILL get you all disbanded, one way or other, you may rest assured of that. Our Day Will Come.
Hi Monica,
Contrary to the information as posted above by Mossie I will always respond to any questions that I can reasonably answer.
The purpose for us looking for additional funding is simple. Our funding since the new board took over has, as the reports you highlight show, been reduced from 450,000 a year to 183,000 per year.
Naturally a reduction of this calibre is bound to have an effect on the services that we provide. For example in our Waterford office we have had to reduce the opening hours and reduce the hours the staff work – this is despite the fact that we have had over 350 calls from 174 DIFFERENT, INDIVIDUAL survivors calling us within 5 months.
What we have highlighted is a need for additional resources namely ; a drop in centre, with free tea and coffee for Survivors to come into and gain information, in an informal setting. We need to run social events to end social isolation for many living in remote areas, or finding it difficult to interact with their neighbours. We have also been asked to provide a Christmas party and mass for Survivors in our region. We have also been asked to provide counselling session, for children and grandchildren of Survivors to educate them about Survivors unique history (to help ensure it does not become an inter generational issue.
As you can see from the above these are difficult times but the NEW board are committed to ensuring the development of Survivors Lives.
In addition to this Right Of Place Second Chance, will for the first time Be launching our annual report. We hope to do this in December to ensure transparency and honesty. It will be given for public consumption.
We hope to use this to show the work that has taken place, what we have spent the funding for 2011 on and most importantly it will be an opportunity to develop understanding of Survivors. We hope to highlight what our members want, changes they want to see and we will use it to ensure Survivors are given priority in Housing, in Welfare etc.
I hope this clarifies your question Monica.
Thanks.
Hi Monica. i doubt it very much if you will get a reply from Mr Michael Walsh RE donations. I would safely say now that, you are asking him a question, which he would rather NOT answer, and more than likely, (WONT) Take care Mossie.x
I myself am writing directly to the minister Mr.Quinn to nominate Paddy Doyle to sit on the boad to represent me and my family. Paddy Doyle as far as I know is an “INDEPENDENT” He also has been an Advocate for all who went through the institutions as well as people with disabilities.
SO I suggest people who are reading this post, but not contributing to the discussion should email the minister directly and nominate Paddy to sit on the board to represent us.
As far as I know Paddy is not on any other board.
So PADDY HAS MY VOTE
Please try and get your votes in as soon as possible, you should be voting next week for a new President anyway, so get your Vote in either here on this thread or directly to the minister.
Monica
Email. Mr. Ruairi Quinn T.D. Minister for Education and Skills. Minister for Education
Hi Monica, in response to your recent letter to Paddy’s Site.
I truly believe that the group ROP/SC knew exactly what form the Minister had proposed the new Statutory Trust Fund would be. They already, i believe knew that the Minister was NOT going to deviate from the decision he had already made.
They had everyone, (BELIEVE) that they were the only ones that were fighting to have the Trust Fund divided among Survivors. That WAS their tactics. They knew only too well that Mr Quinn was NOT going to change his mind on this, and it was going ahead as planned by all these other groups. It was Already set in Concrete, and Right of Place Second Chance, already knew this.
It would NOT be in any groups interests to have the Fund shared among Survivors, as they, ( THE GROUPS) would be missing out on Funding from the Actual Fund. So when this group (Right of Place Second Chance) say, they were the only group to vote against this Statutory Fund, i tell you, they were (As always,) Lying through their teeth. It was all a Pretence.
They are now looking for Donations from Survivors, to keep their (Limited Company) afloat. How low will these Parasites stoop? They are Unreal.
As you stated Monica, they will not be getting any funding from The Department as they did when Fianna Fail was in Government. What will happen though, and The Minister has not stated Directly is, the groups May be funded from the New Statutory Fund, which if happens, will be a total and utter Disaster, and i can Assure you, Mr Treanor, and his Controversial Group, (Right of Place Second Chance) will have already submitted their Applications for funding their, NON DEMOCRATICALLY ELECTED BOARD, and their Directors. I will be writing to the Minister personally myself later on this matter.
I have written to The Minister previously on this matter Monica. But i did NOT get a direct response to the question. This is WHY these groups hope to be funded from The New Statutory Fund. Wait and see, unless that we ALL as Survivors, write now to The Minister Quinn, and State that we all as Survivors, DO NOT want ANYBODY employed with Any of these (SO CALLED) Survivor groups funded from this New Statutory Fund, as the funding is (NOT) being channeled to the Survivors, but to the groups, and only the groups.
And Also, we do Not want anyone of these groups to be even considered to sit on the New Board, that will Administer the New Fund. We want them all to have Absolutely Nothing whatsoever to do with the Administering this Fund, Why, because Survivors overall (DO NOT TRUST ANY GROUP) They claim to have done this, and done that for Survivors, but have done NOTHING, only used what ever funding they got to Claim their Travel Expenses, and Subsistence. They have enjoyed a good lifestyle for too long now, ans is time to end it now, once and for all. End of.
Micheal who are you trying to cod, you are the son of M walsh one of the board of r o p. your self and your Father are bloody well paid with
wages and expenses.When ever ye are asked to account for the funds (millions mentioned above)
all we get is lies and deciet (ye are well advised by your legal adviser Mr Treanor)
You all got yere answer when ye tried to pull
the wool over the Cork members eyes at the last meeting.
Thank God something is been done at the moment and the truth will come out and you will all be
held accountable.
By Jennifer Hough
Thursday, October 06, 2011 Irish Examiner
A STATE-FUNDED group for survivors of institutional abuse spent over €80,000 on travel and subsistence, and over €30,000 on office administration over two years.
Annual accounts filed yesterday by the Cork-based organisation Right of Place show that in 2009 and 2010, the group had expenses of €478,534 and €423,850 respectively. During 2010, the accounts show that almost €14,000 was spent on office administration, and almost €9,000 on printing, postage and stationary.
Over €7,000 was spent on legal fees. A note to the accounts shows that during 2010 a case taken against Right of Place by a former employee meant the group was ordered to pay a settlement of €6,700, as well as legal fees amounting to almost €4,000.
During 2010, Right of Place received €321,860 in grants and a one-off payment of €45,153 for redundancies and legal fees.
However, its budget has been slashed in the past year after it emerged that duplicate funding had been taking place over many years.
In the past, Right of Place was funded through grants from both the HSE and the Department of Education. Now its only source of state funding is the HSE, from which it receives about €183,000. It had sought a further €90,000 from the Department of Education.
Internal documents obtained by the Irish Examiner show that the department wrote to the HSE this year to check what money it had given to the group in order that both would not fund it for the same thing.
The department official wrote that Right of Place, which it has funded since 2001, sought funding for areas of expenditure the department had never previously funded. These included staff salaries, office rent, training and research.
Survivors had raised concern about the amount of money which groups purporting to represent them get. An estimated €34 million has been provided to groups supporting victims of institutional abuse between 2001 and 2009.
Right of Place has received €2.4m from the HSE since 2002, with a further €1m coming from the Department of Education.
The Aislinn education and support centre, set up by former Goldenbridge resident Christine Buckley, between 2007 and 2010 topped €1.1m
http://www.rightofplace.com/donations
And one thing further Michael, with all the monies mentioined in above article, why would Right of Place Second Chance have on their website a link for DONATIONS?
I’m not trying to needle anyone here, just curious
Monica,
I would not comment on who directly should be on the board, I firmly believe this is a decision that rightfully should be made by Survivors themselves.
I do also agree with you in regards it is important who is placed on the board to ensure it’s effectiveness, as the saying goes we need to learn from history. By this I mean from my experience of so many Survivors, the Education Finance Board did not work as effectively as it should have (to put it mildly)
I also simply stated that Right of Place Second Chance have categorically stated it’s position but as previously suggested as it looks like the fund will be established it is important that it’s use is crystal clear before Any board is established. Because once it is established with it’s uncertainties and it’s vagueness, it i
I have spoken about this and the above information is causing additional stress to Survivors as there is a feeling that the vagueness contained within the information dies not help many Survivors in any way, infact it is further adding to their pain. I am simply suggesting that before any additional pain is caused, we all need to understand, Survivors and those assisting them – what does the Fund mean practically. Because I can assure you many cannot answer that question at the moment and Survivors feel badly treated again.
Finally again I will stress we are NOT funded based on our members… We could have 10 members and receive the same funding. We are funded based in the number of people who access the services and the types of support that we provide.
However please understand that the above information is important it is not about groups or individuals but about Survivors. It is only with a collective voice can you ensure you receive what you should rightfully get, it dosent help when so many are pulling in different directions.
Michael
I pulled part of an article published about funding to Right of Place/First and Second Chance. I think this group has had enough CHANCES. And I do not want anyone from that Group or any other so called MANDATED group to represent me or my family. I am aware that the majority of the members of this group do not even know they are Members, I’m mainly speaking here about the International part of the group. In fact I had to write to this group years ago to insist that they remove a persons name off their member list. The person never signed or gave permission to this group to be a member. The group obviously got a Data base of names and address’s of people who signed up for the Redress Board from another and these people are and were totally in the dark that their names and address are on a Computer down in County Cork.
I do not want any representatioin on this new fund from anyone who is a part of a group. What we need is “AN INDEPENDENT”
And Michael The ISSUE of who is on the board NEED TO BE ADDRESSED NOW, because the government are going ahead anyway and it’s in everyone’s interest that we have someone we can trust representing us, and right now from reading part of the article below guess what, it’s not going to be Right of Place , FIRST, SECOND, or any other CHANCER this time
“The various departments who have given money to this charity have, in my opinion, being a bit relaxed when it comes to checks and balances,’ he said.
The Irish Daily Mail has learned that between 2001 and 2008 the Department of Education gave a total of €980,080 to Right of Place, which claims to represent 1,500 people.
A further €677,000 was received from the Department of Health between 2002 and 2005. Between 2006 and 2010, the HSE – which took over funding for the charity from the Department of Health – gave €1,498,723.
On top of the €3.1million in direct government funding, the charity also received €50,000 Lotto funding in 2003.
Controversially, it also accepted money from some of the very religious orders that ran institutions accused of abusing the people it claims to help.
The exact amount the various organisations gave is not publicly known but it is estimated at €300,000.
The Sisters of Mercy in Cork were involved in sourcing at least €20,000 for the charity but by last year they were demanding to know how the money was actually being spent.
In 2009, Sister Maria McGuinness from St Columba’s Convent in Cork wrote to the charity saying: ‘I would be grateful to receive the detailed breakdown of how the grant of €20,000 was spent.’
Other orders include Brothers of Charity, which gave €5,000 in 2000, the Sisters of Charity, which gave €10,000 in 2006, and the Congregation of the Brothers of Charity. The Galway-based charity donated €6,350 in 2002.
The Rosminians Institute of Charity in Drumcondra, Dublin, donated €5,000 the previous year.
The HSE last night denied ignoring how Right of Place administered taxpayers’ money.
A spokesman said: ‘During the period December 2009 to date, the HSE has worked with the organisation to bring about structure and good governance.
‘In May 2010 all parties signed an agreement which created a pathway to move forward. It provided a mechanism to democratically elect a new board of directors representative of the local committees of the organisation.’
She said the HSE would not be able to give details about its funding plans for Right of Place next year until the Budget has been announced”
To Monica,
The current support groups in operation are funded by both the department if education and the HSE. all that this knew fund will do is ensure funding from the department of education will cease. However funding from the HSE will continue.
I would also like to point out it is not my place to comment on other groups or individuals regarding their notes above, however regarding Right Of Place Second Chance and in particular tge new Board it is clear that we highlighted we were categorically against the trust fund and indeed our membership was.
I think this is important to highlight to remind people that there is an organisation willing to express the views of their members and supporters. It is also important to state that as the STF seems like it will be accepted the most important thing now is clarification on what it actually means to Survivors.
Our biggest concern is the sheer looseness of the terms unto which the fund will support. When they say housing, what does this actually mean? We need to now fight for supports and assistance that will actually benefit ALL survivors. It is now this needs to be highlighted.
I am also saddened to see it states their was an extensive consultation process, because through my work I have not seen anything in the information so far that supports what Survivors are looking for.
It is know, more then ever that Survivors need unity, to ensure tue Fund is established correctly with Survivors interests at the forefront. The issue of who is on the board needs to be addressed at a later date as if the board members are established before a concrete understanding of the Statutory Trust fund, then it could remain as un- appealing as it is know.
It will be our aim to highlight this in several ways over the coming weeks and months.
Hello david’ i know what you mean but its not about abuse alone. Its also about the industriel schools where work started at an early age and that up untill the disposal of the child. a lot of money was made from all the products in these schools. that is one of the main reasons that redress was given. the lack of education was another reason.and now its a money spinner for some and a lot of waiting for news for others.
Bill
One thing to remember. I believe when the group leaders went to the meeting last July, they did not realise that The Minister was going to Pull the Rug from under them. AS you will see in article above, they will NOT NOT be getting any funding from teh department as they did when FF were in governement. Now the group leaders all went with getting this fund up and running believing at the time that there pockets were yet again going to be filled and it seems to me that this new minister has just pulled the rug, I believe I am correct as I read the minutes of that meeting last July
Mr QUINN WHEN LABOUR WERE IN OPPOSITION YOU AND YOUR PARTY PROMISED US ABUSED, FAIR AND HONEST
TREATMENT.
ALL YOU DONE WAS IMPLEMENT THE PROPOSEL FF
PUT IN PLACE, USEING THE EXCUSE THAT OUR REPS
ADVISED YOU ON THE FUND
NOT ONE SURVIVER WANTED YOU TO MEET THE REPS
(PARSITES, THE LOT OF THEM ,LOOK AT ROP CORK AND THE MONIES UNACCOUNTED FOR AND THE WAGES AND EXPENESSES RECIEVED BY THE GANGESTERS)YOU MUST
NOT APPOINT BUCKLEY, BARRY, WALSH, M O BRIEN, TREANOR,
OR ANY OTHER REP WHO SOLD AWAY THE ABUSERS RIGHTS AND CONPANSATION, SO THEY COULD KEEP THERE CROOKED CARTELS GOING.
PLEASE, (SORRY IM NOT BEGGING ANYMORE)JUST DO WHAT
YOU PROMISED AND GIVE US FAIRPLAY.YOUR PARTY BROKE
EVERY ELECTION PROMISE STAND UP ONCE AND FOR ALL
BE A MAN AND FOR GODS SAKE GIVE US JUSTICE
BILL
My concern is for all those have not received Redress. Many of who were in institutions that were not listed in the Redress Act, but were equally as abused as much of the same as those who were abused in institutions that were listed under the Redress Act and who have received Redress (for how little it was in many occassions).
Open Letter to the Minister
Dear Minister,
Please do not appoint the “Two’ board members to represent us, without consulting with us.
(NOTHING ABOUT US WITHOUT US (c) Paddy Doyle)
As we have just received this notice we should be given time to make sure we are being represented by someone we all know and trust. As far as I am aware none of the Group Leaders have a MANDATE from us to speak for us, I therefore recommend that whoever you choose to be on the board that represents us should be an INDEPENDENT person, with NO allegience to any group. I know there are a good many who can qualify for this board, but please do not and put someone on the board without consulting with us.
Thank you..
Email. Mr. Ruairi Quinn T.D. Minister for Education and Skills. Minister for Education
Minister Ruairi Quinn, Minister for Education and Skills can be contacted at this email address. Minister for Education Email Minister Quinn will oversee the establishment of the Residential Statutory Fund and make appointments to its Board. Two appointee’s will be people who’ve been in Industrial Schools. This address can also be used to nominate people who you think would best serve the interests of people who were abused while detained by the State and religious orders in various institutions around the country. I do not know when the Minister will announce the members of the Statutory Fund Board.
Paddy
How can we email the minister? Where do we get his contact details? I would rather have someone on the board who is not a group leader, or so called group leader. Yes “VOTE INDEPENDENT” that’s what I would go for. An Independent person who belongs to no group and can speak out on behalf of the people who cannot
I have written to mr Quinn for some time now and still had no answer regarding funding, not one note from him or his office.
the education fund HAS AN AGE LIMIT, ANY SURVIVORS CHILD UNDER THAT AGE DID NOT QUALIFY FOR ANY OF THE THE AGREED FUNDS FOR EDUCATION, COUNCILLING. HECK NO FUNDS FOR ANY CERTAIN NEEDS THESE CHILDREN MAY HAVE REGARDING THEIR DEVELOPMENT DARN IT THIS IS WHAT WE ARE DEALING WITH.
THAT VERY SAME TREATMENT OF THE YOUNG.
MR QUINN SORT THIS OUT BEFORE THIS SHEER ROBBERY GOES ANY FURTHER.
NOW AS FOR THIS STUPID FUND
a group in Cork spent this kind of money IN NO TIME AT ALL AND CANNOT ACCOUNT FOR IT,
the education, the counselling, and family tracing was already agreed by signing of the redress deal OR WAS IT NOT?,
EVERY SINGLE DEAL DONE WAS DEGRADING INSULTING AND ALL DONE WITH THE WORDS OF PROPERGANDA TO SUIT THE PUBLIC RELATIONS NOT TO PUT RIGHT THE WRONGS DONE.
OH I JUST WONDER WILL THERE BE A SILENT AGE LIMIT TO THIS AS WELL?
FINALLY
THEY MIGHT CLAIM THE ORIGINAL FUNDS FOR EDUCATION COUNSELLING AND FAMILY TRACING ARE RUNNING OUT BUT HEY ASK THEM TO PROVE IT AS MOST SURVIVORS ARE TOO OLD, TOO YOUNG, TOO SICK, HOMELESS, DISSABLED,ETC ETC TO CLAIM FROM THAT ORIGINAL FUNDING.
THIS IS TO THE SHAME OF ALL THE DEALINGS THUS FAR.
HOW MANY WILL THIS POCKET MONEY REACH?
MINISTER QUINN YOU ARE NEGLECTING THE VERY NEEDS YOU SHOUTED AT THE FINNA FAIL ABOUT, YOU HAVE DONE FAR WORSE YOU USED OUR HURT FOR YOUR OWN GAIN.
One way of doing that is to email Minister Quinn TD and suggest who we would like to represent us on the Residential Statutory Fund Board.
Who is to decide who would have had an award from the redress board had thay gone. this seems very unclear to me. and the many who live abroad will again be ignored.Who are the ex residents who will be on the board!!!.and as for education well we have done enough learning for the past years and years that we dont need that anymore its too symbolic.
Paddy we must make sure that who ever repesent the abused should be elected by the abused, and not the minister we all know Buckley Barry P o
Brien M Walsh Traenor Burke and the rest of the parisites who bled us like vampires to feather
their own nests and treated us like fools for their own benifit,
This time only people ELECTED BY THE ABUSED should repesent us.
Paddy, we dont need the Education Finance Board to remind us of the so-called Statutory Trust Fund because its quite clear that the majority of survivors are against it in its present form.
To be quite honest the Education Finance Board should be looking at the number of complaints against them in their own department.
Well i think that we have heard all this before and it dident work out fairly.and what about the ladys who worked in the laundrysDo thay need so many highly paid directers and chairmen to put this into action. again thats been tried too and thay all stated the importance of thier work. but it doesnt work like that or it shouldent. if thay have not already applied to the fund its not too late. when adults say that if thay feel good about what thay do then thay dont care about any other opinions. thats dictatering.
I hope it won’t be similar to the Education & Finance board … a lot of bumf and that board could fund guitar lessons no probelem, but not schoolbooks for children of former detainees. That said when that board did work, it worked very well.
Why only 2 ex-child detainees on the board? I’m all for gender balance – why not a balance also between ex-child detainees and others on the Board of the Fund? Anyway it’s good to see movement on this at last.
what does this mean for us
I’m sorry but I don’t have the answer to that question. I expect it will be in the next few weeks.
When will this start.