It is still not too late to urge TD’s to vote down the Statutory Trust Fund if you click on the following Link you can send your email to all TD’s http://bit.ly/IentBC
Please Share this?
Latest Reply to my unanswered Correspondence, prompted by an Official Complaint on the 15th July 2011 against Ruairi Quinn for ignoring Correspondence!
Only the Email sent to the Taoiseach forwarded for Ruairi Quinn to respond to are outstanding!
The last Paragraph is very interesting “As responsibility for information for survivors will also be taken on by the Statutory Fund, funding of survivor groups by the Department will cease.” This may explain the change of Heart of Group Leaders?
Also interesting to note that they are apparently not funded on the Number of Members by the HSE, however this does not mention the Guidelines for Funding from the Cork City VEC.
What is not clear is who funds the Aislinn Centre?? There is also vagueness about the Role of the HSE in the Funding of the Aislinn Centre and Right of Place.
Can anyone shed any Light on this??
Regards Rob
————————————————–
On Behalf Of Minister for Education & Skills
Sent: 17 August 2011 16:56
To: Robert Northall
Subject: 1102130/1102417
17 August 2011
PLEASE QUOTE REF NUMBER ON ALL CORRESPONDENCE
Our Ref: 1102130 /1102417
Dear Mr. Northall,
The Minister for Education and Skills, Mr. Ruairí Quinn T.D., has asked me to refer to your recent e-mails regarding the proposed Statutory Fund to support the needs of survivors of residential abuse, the funding and activities of certain support centres for survivors of abuse and related matters.
As you are aware, following the announcement of the proposal to utilise €110 million of the contributions being offered by the religious congregations to establish a Statutory Fund to support the needs of survivors, this Department undertook a detailed consultation process. Meetings were held with survivor representatives, religious congregations and other interested parties. In addition, over 250 individual responses were received in response to newspaper advertisements which invited views on the specific needs facing survivors and how the Fund could operate to assist in meeting those needs. You of course contributed your views to the consultation process in your e-mail of 27 August 2010.
The consultation process identified a range of views in relation to the establishment of a Statutory Fund including some views that the money should just be paid directly to former residents. However it also highlighted the fact that survivors continue to have many needs such as housing, medical services, etc. A copy of the report summarising the comments received as part of the consultation process is attached for your information. This can also be found on the Department’s website at the following link:
Having given careful consideration to the views received as part of the consultation process the Government decided to proceed to establish the Statutory Fund. The draft General Scheme setting out the main features of the Bill providing for the Fund’s establishment is available on this Department’s website and any comments/submissions made on the Scheme would be welcome and will be considered. It is the intention that the draft Bill itself will be published in the autumn and enacted by the end of the year.
In relation to support centres for survivors and former residents of institutions, in a Press Release dated 5th July last, the Minister for Education and Skills indicated that “As responsibility for information for survivors will also be taken on by the Statutory Fund, funding of survivor groups by the Department will cease.” This Department provides limited funding to groups including Right of Place, Cork for an information and referral service and the allocation of funding to groups is not based on the number of members affiliated to any one particular group. Funding provided to Right of Place is administered through the Cork City VEC and the service of a co-ordinator is engaged to monitor and oversee this funding. The Department does not fund Aislinn and funding provided by the Health Service Executive (HSE) to Aislinn and Right of Place is a matter for that organisation. Issues such as the compliance, or otherwise, with statutory requirements are the responsibility of other State agencies. For example, the Office of the Revenue Commissioners has a role in ensuring that bodies which have been granted charitable tax exemption comply with any necessary requirements. It is noted that you have already been in contact with the Charities Section of the Revenue Commissioners in regard to this matter. The Office of the Data Protection Commissioner is the State agency responsible for upholding the rights of individuals as set out in the Data Protection Acts, and enforcing the obligations upon data controllers. You may wish to consider raising your concerns in regard to the operation of the centres in regard to membership lists, etc with the Commissioner’s office.
I agree with you there paddy. these ladies deserve the utmost respect from all of us . its like when we from the industriel schools are called the girls. its hurtfull.
Just to make a point, I dislike as I know many other people do, the term “Maggies’ – it would be preferable to uses terminology such as ‘Women who spent time in Magdalene laundries’ or even ‘Magdalene Women’. Please consider it for future posts/comments. “Maggies’ depersonalises the women. That’s my view. Paddy.
Hi again Paddy and readers, I just read the comment I submitted only last night and I must say that I was plesently surprised to see that it was posted just as I wrote it; and yes, with the venom feelings possibly being more clear than the message I actually wanted to pass on to you guys, but I am just so pissed at the way our own people has and is to this day treating our own people… WITH THE WORST PART BEING (as I’m seeing it) THE CONTINUED USE OF THE MAGGIES PAIN AND SUFFERING STORY TO LINE THE POCKETS OF YET ANOTHER GROUP OF USERS; WHICH MOST LIKELY INCLUDES THE T.V. AND PRINT MEDIA (WHO HAVE A MORAL OBLIGATION TO FUND LEGAL COUNSEL TO/FOR OUR MAGGIE SISTERS… MY QUESTION THEN IS.. COULD WE AS A PEOPLE HAVE SUNK THAT LOW??? (and I am hoping the answer is MAYBE NOT) AND IF NOT… WHAT THEN?
MY ADVISE TO THE SURVIVING MAGGIES WOULD BE FOR THEM TO FORM A UNITED GROUP, THEN COPYRIGHT THEIR STORY AND OFFER IT TO THE HIGHEST BIDDING PRODUCTION COMPANY…. HEY GUYS, THE MAGGIES STORY IS SO HEART RENCHING… THEY SHOULD HAVE AN AGENT, THAT SHOULD MAKE THEM VERY WEALTHY….. AND “THEY” AND THEY ALONE DESERVE IT!!!
Now, I can already hear the rumblings from the other “survivor” victims (like myself and the others who are still breathing); well, as poor as it is/was WE HAD ACCESS TO THE REDRESS BOARD.. SO PLEASE KEEP IN MIND, OUR MAGGIE SISTERS ARE STILL WAITING FOR AS LITTLE AS THAT….AND ITS JUST NOT THE WAY IT SHOULD BE.. ITS JUST NOT FAIR!!!… WE AS IRISH (as Humans) SHOULD BE BETTER THAN THAT!
Having just read the above, I believe that some may believe I am looking to (in a way) rep The Maggies? The answer to that would be NO!!! However, I would not object to being part of a “lets all help them for free” group, to explore the possibilities of making them Filthy Fn. Rich.. Which would be the accepted modern way to restore their stolen dignity… LET THEIR STORY BE TO THEIR BENEFIT; THEY HAVE BEEN USED FOR TOO LONG!!
Those of you with your heart in the right place know (from the previous posting above) how to get in touch with me directly… And if you are within hugging distance of A Maggie? Hug her for Drina and me… And help her to get in contact with us so she can choose her 27 space remembrance location number where she will hold the center space of honor, with the remaining 26 being her right to dedicate to friends or supporters of hers who would contribute directly to her for the privilege of having a memorial marker in a beautiful Irish setting, with a beautiful Irish Maggie in its center space of honor… Which Drina and I are honered to be able to provide….
AND, FOR THE SKEPTICS… NO, WE ARE NOT SELLING ANYTHING HERE…. WE ARE JUST DOING FOR THE MAGGIES EXACTLY AS WE ARE DOING FOR THE 9-11 HEROES (and the people they tried to save; with about 1/3 of those being full Irish and/or our Irish blood in their heritage) Which allowes contributers to donate to The Wounded Warrior projects, Childrens Hospitals, Cancer programs and/or whatever the particular “Center Space of Honor” designates as their special charity… THAT SIMPLE…. (as in) DO NOT SEND MONEY TO PADDY AND DRINA!!….. THIS IS JUST OUR WAY OF SAYING THANKS TO AMERICA FOR ACCEPTING US AS IMMIGRANTS WHEN WE NEEDED ACCEPTING SO MUCH; AND SUPPORTING OUR IRISH SISTERS… OUR MAGGIES; WHO NEED ACCEPTING BY THEIR OWN PEOPLE; THOSE VERY SAME, WHO HAVE A DUTY TO RETURN TO THEM THE DIGNITY THEY/WE WOULD ALL WANT FOR OUR MOTHERS… FOR OURSELVES!!
Your’e very welcome Pauline. We all try and give whatever information we can. It’s great to have a Site like Paddy’s, where your views are not swept under the carpet, if it displeases someone. take care.
Hi to yourself Mr. Paddy Doyle and your readers
and yourself, Rob N. and J. Moy already know I (for now) live in California; and that I was a Daingean “resident” 1958-60…. and have just this year finished with the F’ed up Redress Board (where they did not even repay me for the hospital’s and surgeries cost I had paid out due to my Daingean stay; BUT I HAD “MY SAY” AND THAT IS WHAT I WANTED MOST!!)
Anyway, this next part has me feeling somewhat ashamed to let you guys know that although I have had the information available to me on The God Squad and the Shame of Ireland type sites, I am so “out of touch” with the revelant facts related to either the Statutory Fund petition or any of the other issues of the “SURVIVOR” groups that are referred to in the comments posted on this site..
BUT PLEASE DON’T TAKE THAT AS MEANING THAT I HAVE BEEN JUST SITTING ON MY ASS ABOUT SUPPORTING THE RIGHTS OF THE INSTITUTIONAL VICTIMS, AS I ONLY FOUND ABOUT THE REDRESS SCHEME IN 2008… AND DURING THE TIME SINCE THEN I (with the full support of my wife) HAVE TRIED TO GET THE CHURCH AND/OR GOVERNMENT TO FUND THE BUILDING OF A TECHNICAL SCHOOL AS A MEMORIAL TO ALL OF THE VICTIMS (FOR WHICH I DREW THE PLANS AND SENT TO THEM, AND OFFERED MY SERVICE FOR FREE!!! REPEAT, FOR FREE!!!The facts of which are on a website http://www.icvmbf.org). ON WHICH I SAY THAT “ANYONE OF THE TWO OR THREE WHO WOULD “NEED” TO SIGN A CHECK FOR IT TO BE VALID (as in) no ONE signature being enough on an outgoing “payment” check!!
And in the cases of questions and/or doubt????? WOULD BE “REQUIRED” TO TAKE A POLYGRAPH TEST… THAT’S RIGHT… “REQUIRED” TO TAKE!!! As from what I’m understanding in/from “the comments”, many seem to feel that there are “carpetbaggers” feeding out of The Blood Sweat and Tears money; and are doing so under the pretence of “We are here to help the victims”!!!….. If this is in any part true? Then the B*+tard* should not be put up against the wall and shot!! They should be F*c*in Slaughtered…… And since I could go on with more than this site could hold…
I’ll just say;
In June/11 last, The wife and I bought (and paid for in full) a lakefront property in Co.Cavan, that we dedicated to the memory of The 9-11 Heroes and “Irish institutional” victims factoring in here that the wife (who is from Chile) and I are both Irish citizens, but we are American Citizen’s too AND WE LOVE AMERICA and were planning to do a memorial in Ireland to our 9-11 victims since 2005. for details please email us at weshallneverforget@sbcglobal.net
BOTTOM LINE (for now)….
I received an email within the last week from Mr. Steven O’Re…. inviting me to look at an Irish T.V. station that was airing a program July/24 that was (in effect)supporting “The Maggies” search for justice…..
However, when I logged on to the site, I saw it as nothing more than a solicitation for a “From a Distance” d.v.d. sales, and or a “contribution” request to support The Maggies… But, our suspicion was aroused when we could not see an explanation as to how The Maggies were to receive any of the money that may be generated..which was from “THEIR” STORY OF PAIN AND SUFFERING????
? Additionally, did any of the “Contributing Artist’s” (or anyone else for that matter) ask for assurance that The Maggies would benefit financially????? We as two doubt it… WE (and many readers I’m sure) WOULD LIKE ANSWERS!!!
On a brighter note; we have dedicated a memorial site that allowes supporters of “The Maggies” to contribute financially and directly to THE “STILL LIVING” MAGGIES, by reserving a space in “Their” reserved 27 space memorial parcel… which we have dedicated to each of them…. (AND AS MANY MORE SPACES AS 450,000 SPACES CAN ACCOMODATE)… No difficulties here…As we love Our Maggies… As they are Our Sisters!! Not just then, but always!!!
To you our living Maggie Sisters, contact us directly, or via a true friend (we believe we will know the difference!!)…
Given the above, this is to you Paddy Doyle (and you too Rob Northall) We expect that you know what we are suggesting here, and we expect both of you to act accordingly…. As Drina and I are up to our ass with S.O.D’s feeding off the victims of abuse!!!
Thanks mossie for the information.After all these years of telling people what thay want to hear how can mr walsh know anything positive about any of us . I have read how he talks of his members. poor devils thats what he called them.He and others have had 11 years and there is no change in most peoples lives. replacing the salvation army is no use to anybody. keeping people in need so that he has a reason to live is too much.the salvation army dont need him either. thay do put people up at least.
This was Michael Walsh’s Contribution to another Site.
Michael Walsh, ?First of all a big thank to you Rob for the kind welcome that I recieved on this site. Indeed to all who see a future for survivors, whatever form it takes, as long as it promotes and enhances our lives in any meaningful way. ??I have signed the petition, with the full support of our Board of Directors! ?Very briefly, one of the reasons I decided to challenge the direction of the old Right of Place was because we did not get a chance to regisrar our view on the additional money that was donated by the religious orders! We were never asked, good or bad what we had to contribute to this debate. None! A decision was made on my behalf, without my authority, and I was infuriated as was others. So we took action! I won’t bore you with the details, but suffice to say that we are now a new group with a new model of service for survivors and a desire to obtain the best there is on behalf of survivors – and only when we have a mandate to do so! ?Incidentially, you dont need our 1750 members to sign. In all our meetings when we canvassed this issue they indicated that they are against this trust fund in principle therefore you have the majority of our members demand that this trust fund be rejected in its present form, so in fact, you have an additional 1750 votes with my signiture! ?On behalf of Right of Place Second Chance we wish you continued success. ?As a survivor if I can be of assistence in the promotion of issues that support survivors then I will. ?Michael Walsh ?Chairperson Right of Place Second Chance
satya nea,
============================
At last Friday’s meeting in The Imperial Hotel in Cork. Mr Walsh was asked from the floor (Where he got this Survivors name from?) Mr Walsh could not answer. He was asked again, where did you get my name from that is on your Database; again Mr Walsh could not, or maybe, would not answer. Again the Survivor Demanded an answer, to which Mr Walsh replied, ok he said, (I will take your name off the Data-Base) The Survivor answered, I did not ask you that question, I asked you, where you got my name. But of course as usual, no answer was forthcoming.
Right of Place Second Chance, got a well deserved Grilling from Survivors at last Friday nights meeting in Cork. The usual Bullyboy tactics were exercised by Treanor, who obviously thought he would use the same line of approach he used to force his will on the (ILLEGAL) elections he pushed through last year. However, they did not realize that The Rebels from Cork stood up to their name, and had the Enemy retreating for cover, and were well prepared for them.
Their idea was to elect a Cork Committee, which incidentally we do not need or want. That was a no go area from the very start. These Parasites were not prepared for the Hot Reception that was in store for them, as The Survivors present did their homework very well, and had all the questions and answers well prepared. This is what we all want to see at any of these meetings these people will have in the future. If indeed there will be a future?
There was another Survivor pointed out an incident, where a Mother wrote in to complain, and ask, WHY she received an invitation from Right of Place Second Chance, for her Son, who had died (3) years previously. Mr Walsh replied, I will look into that. (Funny) I can recall the last Dictator of Right of Place, Noel C Barry say the same thing when someone would ask him a question, (Leave it with me, I will look into it. So it’s more of the same. Mr Walsh, we will all be watching this space to see if, indeed you will look into it, because we wont forget, and of that you may be well assured.
It will be very interesting to see the minutes of the meeting in Cork, and if they will be put up on their Web Page, or indeed if they will be put up at all? On the subject of meetings, I also noticed that Right of Place has only put up the minutes of the Waterford meeting, where they were one or two comments, saying how well it went off, and how orderly it was. I think I know the answer to that. The only reason was, anyone attending was from the Waterford region, and were all their own Survivors.
Can I ask Mr Walsh also, why the minutes of the Galway, Kerry, and Limerick meetings are not displayed on your Web Site? This is very strange indeed. But we already know that those meetings were also a Massive Flop, and maybe, just maybe, this is the reason why the minutes are not displayed.
Could it be like your Forum page on your Web Site, where you are selective in what you will allow to be put up. If it is not to your liking, then it wont be displayed? I would safely say Mr Walsh, I am the only one submitting Topics to your Site, and if you published all articles that I have submitted to date, you would need another Administrator to handle the load.
By the way Sir, all we see on your Site is (From the Administrator) who is this Elusive Administrator? Pray tell us, we are all dying to know who it is.
When all is said and done Mr Walsh. We would all have helped Right of Place in every way possible, which i think some of the Survivors pointed out at last Fridays meeting in Cork, but you lot seem to chose your own greedy way of governance. I hope you can sort it.
Technically there is nothing prohibiting Religious Orders from applying to the statutory Trust Fund for Funding? How Weird is that???
Kay
“Midland Survivors Services (Coventry UK) State it Clearly in their April 2011 News letter that they are awaiting for the Second half of this year Funding from the Statutory Trust Fund!”
Thanks Paddy, glad the Minister took note of what you quite rightly pointed out and look forward to reading the minutes of the meeting, its encouraging that you found Ruairi Quinn to be a people person, like you say Paddy we shall have wait and see what the outcome will be
Thanks Again Paddy for taking the time to speak up for the otherwise non-represented…Kay
Wll understanding of the effects of abuse be about the same people. Christine buckley and a few others have been in the limelight for many years now and i dont think that thay have a clue as to what its like getting by anonamously.
I did point out to the Minister – and he noted it – that services being proposed in the Statutory Trust Fund already exist and are a there as of right to all people, be they ‘survivors’ or not. The Minister will revisit the proposed Fund and see what changes if any can be made. My own comment to The Irish Times is my honest opinion of Ruairi Quinn – it now a matter of wait and see what come back from the Minister’s office following the meeting on Friday 22nd of July 2011. Paddy.
P.S “VICTIMS: A STATE agency that will provide compensation as well as support services to victims of abuse” Paddy was this discussed at the meeting? if so what does it mean?…Kay
I have never heard from anyone to whom i gave my details to . well i did get the same xmas card twice in 4 years. apart from that i was told that my opinion did not matter to mr walsh. this was about them sending letters to the familys in the name of thier dead ones.Of course we dont need to be refered by others. this would have been a help years ago when i left goldenbridge. but since then i have learned. and im sure its the same thing for others. what are we paying for a childrens hospital. i am a lot too old for a stay in there
Hi Paddy, this article was taken from the IRISHTIMES.COM, I don’t normally copy from newspapers, prefer to leave this for you to decide upon, but today I feel compelled to ask, why the representatives are so happy about this deal, is there something new in it that Survivors are yet to find out, because from what I can gather the services mentioned already exist and not exclusively to Survivors but to all – I’m baffled – would really appreciate it if you could throw some light on this
Kind Regards Kay
PATSY McGARRY
VICTIMS: A STATE agency that will provide compensation as well as support services to victims of abuse will be up and running by January, Minister for Education Ruairí Quinn said yesterday.
It is hoped legislation to set up the statutory fund to provide support for people abused as children in residential institutions will be enacted in the autumn, said Mr Quinn.
Speaking to victim support groups, representing people who had been in residential institutions as children, he also said the Government had decided to enact legislation to close the redress board and that the memorial to abuse victims, recommended in the Ryan report, “is to advance to competition stage”.
Set up in 2002, the Residential Institutions Redress Board, offered compensation to abused former residents of 139 industrial and reformatory schools, orphanages and children’s homes linked to the State. Since its establishment it has received 15,173 applications and has finalised 14,645 cases, of which 925 were either refused, withdrawn or resulted in no award.
Mr Quinn met the victim support groups at the Department of Education. He told them the statutory fund would focus “solely on former victims of abuse” with eligibility “confined to those who received an award from the redress board”. It would provide services or commission public agencies to do. These would include counselling, psychological support and mental health services, educational and housing services and others as required. Funding for victims’ groups, provided by the department, for the provision of information and referral services would cease and it would be open to the fund to consider financing services to abuse victims including those provided by the support groups.
To ease access, the redress board will supply details it has of award recipients. A total of €110 million will be available to the fund with €20.05 million paid over by the congregations to date. He told the groups he would work with them so all could say “that we have made a tangible difference to the lives of a great number of survivors.”
Speaking afterwards John Kelly of Soca Ireland said the Minister had been “very supportive and listened very attentively”. Every group “expressed heartfelt feelings at how the new Government behaved” where the abuse issue was concerned, he said.
Michael O’Brien of the Right to Peace group said it was “brilliant now to see a Government prepared to work with survivors and help with their needs”. He praised the Taoiseach for his Wednesday address and the Tánaiste for calling in the papal nuncio. The church, he said “has not produced one penny where survivors are concerned”. He is seeking to meet Cardinal Brady to discuss this.
Tom Cronin of Irish Survivors International was “optimistic, cautiously optimistic” after the meeting, while Paddy Doyle felt the Minister was “a very good people person” and “determined to get things moving.”
Mick Waters of Soca UK had “great confidence . . . this Minister and Government will do whatever they can
Exactly Pauline, all they will do for you is refer you to Welfare services. We do not need these Parasites. We can all access these Welfare facilities ourselves, we do not need these people, and they should All be closed down.
Do you ever get any information from Right of Place Second chance, or any group Pauline?
Right of Place Second Chance held a meeting in The Imperial Hotel in Cork on the 21st of july, they intended to elect a New Cork Committee. They got a very hostile reception from the Survivors who attended.
They thought it was going to be as easy as it was last year, when a (So Called Barrister) bullied his way through the process of elections all around the country, with the blessing of the HSE.
It was a very different show this time around. the Survivors were ready for them, and No Committee were elected. Mr Treanor, and Mr Walsh met with some fierce resistance from the floor, and left the meeting after two and a half hours, achieving Nothing.
Survivors are all fed up with the promises and Lies these people concoct, in the name of Survivors, when all they want to do is line their pockets out of sheer greed.
its time Now to DISBAND all of these groups, and also time for the HSE to cease Funding to all of these groups, once and for all.
Quinn tells congregations to pay more in reparations
By Evelyn Ring
SATURDAY, JULY 23, 2011
EDUCATION Minister Ruairi Quinn has told religious congregations they have a moral duty to pay significantly more in reparations for those abused in residential institutions.
Warning that the issue would not go away, he believed the public supported a 50/50 approach and would not regard the matter as closed until that was delivered.
“Lest there be any ambiguity, I am calling on you to significantly increase the cash offers that you have already made,” he told congregation representatives yesterday.
Mr Quinn, who described the two-hour meeting as “very positive”, wrote to 18 religious congregations earlier this month to follow up on the previous government’s call for them to meet half of the €1.3 billion bill.
The Rosminians, the Daughters of the Heart of Mary and the Sisters of Our Lady of Charity could not attend because of the timing of yesterday’s meeting.
The Sisters of Mercy did not attend the meeting because it was part of a group and pointed out they had offered €20 million to an independent fund, together with a number of properties valued at €11.5m.
“I am quite happy to have a general discussion with the Sisters of Mercy and then enter into bilateral negotiations with them,” said Mr Quinn.
He said any further cash contributions received from congregations would go towards the costs of the new National Children’s Hospital.
He said the response to individual property offers that had been made would be on a bilateral basis with his officials.
Mr Quinn pointed out that only 12 of the properties offered were of immediate benefit to the state and it was hoped to move rapidly to complete the transfer of those properties.
He said the Government wanted to explore the possibility of putting legal mechanisms in place that would provide the state with a long-term option on the school infrastructure belonging to the congregations.
Mr Quinn, who met survivors of abuse before meeting the congregations, said he wanted to dispel any notion that the proposal was driven by ideology.
“The Government’s sole aim in this is to achieve a reasonable response in terms of meeting the costs of the response to abuse,” he said.
He also wanted to make it clear that any education property transferred to state ownership would not affect current patronage arrangements.
“Such schools would remain as Catholic schools and that would not be altered without agreement. The lands, however, would be available to the state,” he said.
He said there was discussion on the degree of responsibility that each congregation might have had and it was agreed that would be established with the Redress Board.
“I am more concerned with the end result rather than the process,” he said.
This appeared in the printed version of the Irish Examiner Saturday, July 23, 2011
Well its the same as before. But whats going to change. if these people are a referal service then what has that got to do with survivers who live abroad. in different countrys things work differently. over here thay dont understand at all what the church was doing in these places. i cant go to the local services and try and explain why i need help. as many others I get by so why do the survivers in Ireland need a referal service. Whats the difference between the ones over there and the ones abroad.
If you read “Summary of Main Provisions of the Statutory Fund” from the “Press Release from Minister for Education & Skills – 5th July 2011”
You will find what it pays out for as stated bellow
Functions/Provisions of the Statutory Fund
The principal function of the Statutory Fund will be to make arrangements for the provision of approved services to support the needs of former residents and to pay grants to former residents to assist them to avail of approved services.
Approved services will include such counselling services, psychological support services and mental health services, and such health and personal social services, educational services and housing services as the Fund may determine.
The Fund will also promote understanding of the effects of abuse on former residents among service providers and will evaluate the effectiveness of the approved services in meeting the needs of former residents.
The Fund can consult with former residents as it considers appropriate.
Education Finance Board
The Education Finance Board will be dissolved and its functions transferred to the Fund.
No Mention of Funeral Expenses or any payment directly to ANY Survivor!
The Education Fund currently take 6 month or More to pay out this would mean that you would have to give them 6 months notice prior to your Death???
But if you read the above they will not cover it!
No Money from the Fund will go to Survivors!
Counselling Services (already funded by the H.S.E.) YES
Education YES
Housing Associations YES
Survivors Groups YES
SURVIVORS a very BIG NO!!!!
The Education Fund Currently Pays the “Service Provider” not the Survivor!
This is a ZERO more forward for the Benefit of Survivors directly and will only benefit those who provide Services for Survivors!
Yet most Survivors Groups are against the Statutory Fund?? or so they say????
Midland Survivors Services (Coventry UK) State it Clearly in their April 2011 News letter that they are awaiting for the Second half of this year Funding from the Statutory Trust Fund!
Hi All. I have just returned from Cork a short time ago, after taking some members up to the meeting which was held in The Imperial Hotel on The Grand Parade. I did not go in myself, as i am not a member, but i believe the meeting was Electric, to put it mildly.
Mr Treanor (Barrister?) Ann-Marie Crean,(Outreach Officer, and Non Survivor) and Michael Walsh, (Right of Place Second Chance, Chairman, were at the top table. I believe it was Fireworks from the word go. These people did not expect to get the Hostile reception from the Survivors, as they got.
Lots and lots of questions were asked, but when the Survivors were not getting the answers, they Hastled Treanor, and Walsh, until some type of acceptable answer was received.
They were hit from all sides, and i would safely say, Treanor and Walsh were glad to see the end of the meeting, which went on for just over Two and a half hours. They thought it was going to be plain sailing as before, when they Bullied their way through the (Illegal) elections they held last year, but it was a very very different kettle of fish tonight, the Wellie was on the other foot.
It really is about time Survivors stood together, and spoke with one voice. This is what Survivors need, and you would have been really proud of them in The Imperial Hotel this evening. This is what they did tonight, and they should be proud of themselves.
At one point, Treanor, and Walsh, were told by the attendance, to go home, and dispand Right of Place Second Chance, and they were not wanted, as all they were doing was lining their pockets, off the misery of Survivors. Treanor, and Walsh, were told to their face, they were nothing but Liars, and not before time too.
One Survivor asked Treanor, if he died would the Trust Fund look after the cost of his Funeral? To which Treanor replied, ‘’ Yes, but you would have to give them prior notice’’ I ask you, what kind of an answer is that to give, from a Supposidly educated man?
I wonder, what they will have to say to The Government tomorrow in Dublin, when they go up to meet them? I would love to be a fly on the wall.
Will these Parasites ever get the message, that they are Not wanted? Survivors do Not need these people who Supposidly speak on our behalf. We all have more than enough of Right of Place Second Chance, and their Lies.
I really do hope that tomorrow The Newspapers will get a first hand account of tonights meeting in The Imperial hotel Cork, and publish the results for every Survivor to see, and read for themselves.
I am Proud of the way Survivors spoke up to these so called leaders of Right of Place Second Chance, at this evenings meeting, and i hope The Government will also hear about it before tomorrows meeting with the group leaders in Dublin. Im sure this is not the last we will hear of the goings on at this meeting, i would safely say that, Yes, the best is still to come.
Its now time to Close Right of Place Second Chance, (Once And for All) AMEN.
Well paddy off you go again to get information for all of us. Since 11 years have gone by now since these people were given the right to decide who gets help and where its normal that we ask what thay have done for the survivers of industriel schools.I am not the only one who has given my name and address hoping to be in contact with others like me but its never happened. its all deception. and no contact at all between us has been arranged. people from the same instutions would be glad to meet up. but its turned into exclusive clups from which we are excluded. its adding pain to pain. also the lists are not beeing looked into and are not up to date as kay points out. Whats the point of continuing all this. its just rumeurs in newspapers to most of us .With cake cutting and footwashing.
If you would like to send me the correspondence, then please do. It will have to arrive with me in the next few hours as I meet the Minister at 10.00 in the morning, Friday 22nd July. Paddy
Hi Paddy ,thank you for your comment’s and i think i see the point you make. My previous posting was simply to enable folk here to know of my opinion regarding other group’s who receive funding by still claiming to represent folk who are not actual member’s and should not be on their data base’s. Either because they resigned ,as i did, or because they are sadly, passed on.
Kay thank you for confirming this situation still goes on. I hope you have taken step’s to inform the Commissioner of Data Protection as i did. Paddy has kindly provided the link to his address, and i feel they should be contacted by any Survivor’s or their Spouse/Family if they also feel their data should not be in the hand’s of these group’s, for which they are still illegally claiming funding.
Paulene you indeed make a very good point there, in that simply by contacting these group’s could well mean they have another name to add to their data base! as you say yourself, you dont know if that has been done or not. As Kay, Mosse and myself have indicated, we are not member’s of ROP chancer’s, yet they still send their new’s letter’s!
Good luck at the meeting Paddy, and thank you for this site, and for raising our concern’s, much appreciated.
Hi Paddy,
Glad that you will be there as an independent to listen and put your forthright opinion across. As many have pointed out (including yourself) you have listened unbiased to the opinions of hundreds perhaps thousands of disenfranchised Survivors and their family members.
You have a reasonable idea of what may be acceptable to them?
I for one would like you to ask why the Formal Petition that I submitted regarding the statutory Trust Fund was dismissed so lightly; and why my other correspondence has had no reply?
If you would like copies of the Correspondence pertaining to this let me know and I will forward them to you so you can present them?
Thanks Paddy, Your last comment has left me intrigued, can’t wait to hear what your idea is and if it works, you can most definitely speak on my behalf, as my husband used to say, “No Better Man” Good luck at the meeting..…Kay
Thats good news paddy. its very differcult after having had our names stolen or changed during our childhood to know that this is happening again.i have also tried to get the use of my name back but i dont know if it was done.Family members are important as thay live with our scars but many survivers have never had any other contact than form filling. its very cruel.
There is a meeting with Minister Ruiari Quinn and representatives of survivors on Friday 22nd July. I will be at the meeting as an independent as I’ve never claimed to represent anyone. I’ve long held the view during the 11 years this website has been running, that to represent anyone, an individual has to be mandated to do so. I do have an alternative idea which I will not publish just yet but will bring to the attention of Minister Quinn when I see him. Paddy.
Not for the first time have I posted this comment: As far as I know it’s an offence under the Data Protection Act to hold information on people without their permission and without the knowledge of the Data Protection Office. By clicking this link http://dataprotection.ie/docs/Home/4.htm you will get all the information you need and you will also be able contact the Data Protection Commissioner. The many people who use this website and who say they don’t want their names registered with any organisation and who then discover that they are registered against their wishes have the option of going to the Data Protection Commissioner. The link is given above. Paddy.
If we contact them in any way at all we could easily finish up as members. i noticed that if we need help we have to be members. as michael the outreach worker advises us to go to thier website in order to see whats going on i would like to remind him thay many of us live abroad so any information learned would be useless to us as we are outside the country.it should not be up to the survivers to move back to ireland. it should be the groups that adapt themselves to the needs of the survivers. otherwise there will allways be miscontentment.
Hi Paddy, I have written to Minister Quinn several times now and have had unsatisfactory replies both from the Minister himself and his Private Secretary, it seems that widows/widowers/spouse and family members are to be cut out of any fund, I put it to Minister Quinne and the Religious Congregation that it is the families of Survivors who supported their loved ones relentlessly during their time of need, this “divide and conquer” we talk about, also involves the Survivors attitude themselves, by making claim that only they where affected by the abuse’s that took place in the Institutions,
I’m not suggesting for one moment that Survivors didn’t have the worst deal, of course they did, just trying to point out that the family were left to pick up the pieces, and were in some cases unpaid carer’ s and victims themselves
Jimmy, like you I no longer belong to any group, my husband passed away in 2006, he Still received the June newsletter from R.O.P.S.C, so they are still claiming for him, it turns out they will be paid “Per Capita”, apart from anything else why are they claiming for U.K survivors anyway when they can only represent Members in Southern Ireland I have already notified Minister Quinne of the situation, but is anyone really listening???
Delighted to be of help. It’s important that people know their rights especially when personal information is being held on them particularly when they don’t want an organisation to hold such information. Paddy.
Thanks Paddy for that useful information regarding The Freedom of Information, and the Links Attached. I do hope anyone with any doubts regarding information they think may be held Illegally, by any group, without their proper consent, will be able to access these Sites themselves, and bring the matter to the Relevant Authorities. Thanks Paddy.
Not for the first time have I posted this comment: As far as I know it’s an offence under the Data Protection Act to hold information on people without their permission and without the knowledge of the Data Protection Office. By clicking this link http://dataprotection.ie/docs/Home/4.htm you will get all the information you need and you will also be able contact the Data Protection Commissioner. Paddy.
Hi James. Thanks for your support. i had the same thing with my application for details removed from their Data-Base also, to have exactly the same thing that happened to you, happen to me also.
This is why these people need to be scrutinized properly. All i am doing is asking questions, but No one wants to answer. They talk about Truth and Transparency, but don’t exercise it.
Of course then, i am a troublemaker for doing so. It’s unbelievable.
In case i have not asked this question before, i will ask it again.
Will Mr Walsh, and his Team in Lower Glanmire Road, The group known as (Right of Place Second Chance) answer me, and All Survivors just one (1) simple question.
Where did you get your Data-Base from? and is it the very same Data-Base as your predecessor Mr Noel C Barry put together?
This is all i want to know. It’s not a difficult question to answer. please.
Pauline, as I’ve no contact whatever with Mr. Walsh I can’t answer you’re question. However, I will put the question to the Minister for Education and Skills, Mr. Ruairi Quinn T.D when I meet him on Friday. You could of course, as can anyone else, write to Minister Quinn at ruairi.quinn@oireachtas.ie Sorry I can’t be of more help. Paddy.
Trying to understand whats going on from a distance is very differcult.are people who went to the redress board geting housed by mr walsh. sorry paddy but i dont know thier address. in his comments he spoke of poor devils living in a house in cork. did these people go to the redress board!.
I feel it necessary to post this comment as I fear there will be a ‘war or words’ between individuals or between organisations. Such a situation would serve no purpose other than to play into the hands of people who want to see the demise of groups who say they represent people who were detained in industrial schools and other institutions where they were abused in so many ways. If questions arise about the way an organisation is run, may I suggest that questions be directed specifically to that organisation rather than get embroiled in a discussion here on this website. What I call ‘in fighting’ merely serves to ‘divide and conquer’ – that plays into the hands of some people. Paddy.
Mosse, thank you for all the information you provide, and as regards the June news letter of ROP SECOND CHANCE, I am 100% behind your observation’s, it is indeed a case of them trying to pull the wool over Survivor’s eye’s big time!
They most definitly have ulterior motive’s, and it very obvious only in their own survival interest’s.
I am most annoyed that they sent me a copy of their June news letter, even though i have in my possesion a letter from Mr Walsh assuring me that my name and details were removed from their data base,sent to me last November, but the recent delivery of this news letter indicate’s that this is a down right lie! And also prove’s that ROP are not to be trusted.
This fact make’s it very apparent to me that many former member’s of ROP are still on their data base, and armed with those names and details, not to mention the many former member’s who are no longer alive, simply to make out to the HSE and other Dept’s, that they have a large membership!In order to keep the funding coming in to them!
Well i have again notified the Commissioner for Data protection of these fact’s, as i simply do not wish to be any part of this Scheming outfit that are only out to furnish a grand lifestyle for themselve’s, at the expense of Genuine Survivor’s!
In the consultation proposal on the S/Trust Fund, it clearly state’s that funding to all group’s will cease, i would rather beleive this than anything that ROP state in their news letter’s!
If the S/T/Fund bill goes ahead, does this indicate that many group’s will fall by the wayside?
atican denies ordering bishops’ silence
By Conor Ryan
WEDNESDAY, JULY 20, 2011
IN THE first sign of a reaction by the Vatican to the Cloyne report, its press officer has claimed the Holy See never instructed Irish bishops to withhold information on abuse cases.
Fr Federico Lombardi said that, instead, the Irish Catholic Bishops Conference was told at a meeting in Rosses Point, Sligo, in November 1998 that neither the Church nor its priests should impede the course of civil justice.
Fr Lombardi’s statement rejected criticism of the Congregation of the Clergy, which undermined the Irish Church’s framework child protection document in 1997 by advising that mandatory reporting of abuse allegation could be contrary to canon law.
The Cloyne report considered this intervention by the Vatican, in 1997, to be entirely unhelpful because it told the Irish bishops that the adoption of their framework document could be “highly embarrassing” for diocesan authorities.
Fr Lombardi’s statement, delivered through Vatican Radio, said that the Congregation of the Clergy was only ever told that the framework was a working document from a bishops’ committee and not the agreed position of the Episcopal Conference.
He said its response was not an invitation to disregard Irish civil law, because there was no law in place at the time to require mandatory reporting.
He also said that, in 1998, the prefect to the Congregation for the Clergy, Cardinal Castrillion Hoyos, told the meeting in Sligo that the Church should not stand in the way of criminal investigations.
Fr Lombardi said the criticism of the Vatican since the publication of the Cloyne report went beyond any comments Ms Justice Yvonne Murphy made in the document itself, which he said were more balanced.
However, the survivors’ group One in Four described Fr Lombardi’s intervention as “wholly inadequate”.
Its executive director, Maeve Lewis, said his statement was an attempt to deny the findings of the Cloyne report.
“Fr Lombardi’s response completely lacks substance and is part of the now familiar refusal by the Vatican to acknowledge that the culture of loyalty and secrecy which facilitated the sexual abuse of children extended far beyond the Irish Church and that it was supported by official Vatican policy,” she said.
“It is further evidence, if it were needed, that the Vatican’s claim to prioritise the safety of children is completely lacking in credibility.
“It underlines the importance for the Irish state to ensure that an unequivocal legal framework is in place to protect children and to punish those who withhold information or place children in danger,” said Ms Lewis.
Minister for Foreign Affairs Eamon Gilmore has already asked the papal nuncio in Ireland, Dr Giuseppe Leanza, to return to him with a full explanation on the comments made by the Vatican in 1997.
Fr Lombardi delivered his statement on Vatican Radio under the guise of a personal comment rather than an official one.
This appeared in the printed version of the Irish Examiner Wednesday, July 20, 2011
I would urge any body or person on this website who has any misunderstanding or misconceptions about Right Of Place Second Chance and the work we do on behalf of Survivors to come onto our website, to ring or to visit our offices and decide for themselves the type of rightful service that they receive. It is impossible to simply judge an organisation or the work being carried out by hearsay alone. (Infact many have called, and what started out as an inquisitive phone call turned into something real positive. So much so, we will know hope to have active “sub committees” in Youghal, Cavan, Dublin, and Kildare into the future as a result of people calling and getting the information and accessing the supports available)
The comment that you left above Mossie, was after you had upset a fellow Survivor by openly lying about speaking to him and his reasons for resigning from the Board of Directors. Even after he had stated he never spoke to you, you never apologised.
Nor when another person left a comment to say how Right Of Place had helped him, you simply replied by calling him a liar – that to me is belittling a fellow Survivor.
It also amazes me that on this website you talk about why the chairman shouldn’t attend the Cork meeting (as he was from Waterford) and yet on Right Of PLace website talk negativly of the fact he didn’t attend the Kerry meeting?? But then again these are, in my opinion, petty issues when we look at what is happening this week and what these conversations detract us from.
Our Stance on the Trust Fund has always been clear and unambigous – We are against the Trust fund and believe the 110 million should go to Survivors as a cash settlement, there should then be additional long term Supports for Survivors and their families. Things like Priority in Housing / Welfare and Health to ensure the many who need support are not forgotten into the future, otherwise if it is money alone what will happen in a year, two or three years time?
In addition to this a committee can only be elected by the membership base that is there on the night and therefore it is impossible to elect our own “cronies” as the membership have complete control on any election of Regional / Local Elections. (Just as happened in our recent Regional meetings.
This will be my only comment but again I would urge anyone who has any hesitation based on things they hear, come onto our website our ring our offices and you will be offered correct and factual information. Or ring the Waterford Offices and ask for myself the number is 051 – 309364.
To Stress again we are against the Trust Fund of 110 million and are one of the few large Groups who openly state this. Now lets focus on the issue that is fundamental in many Survivors (and our members) lives – the Trust Fund and how Survivors can be strong enough as a collective to ensure your desires are achieved.
Thanks for your comments, and support, Catherine, and Pauline. This man obviously has respect for No one, least of all Survivors. It just goes to show the Type we are all dealing with.
All i am trying to do is ask some questions, and hopefully get some sort of Accountability from these people, but it seems, if you ask questions, they don’t like, all you get is Abuse. They try and Belittle you, if they possibly can.
For a Chairman to talk to fellow Survivors in that manner, is a Total ,and Utter disgrace. A proper Chairman would not address a fellow Survivor in that manner. I shudder to think of how other Survivors are treated.
Their recent leaflet (Highlights)
Right of Place Second Chance.
Promoting Trust and Confidence amongst its members and Supporting them through Professional Staff and Elected Representatives.
They certainly do not promote any of what they Claim to, in their Newsletters, as far as i am concerned.
They are also holding a Cork Meeting on Thursday evening in The Imperial Hotel, South Mall, Cork, the 21st of July, at 7.30pm, with the purpose of electing a Cork Committee. I wonder how many Survivors will Not be told of this meeting? They also state on their Web-Site, that only members of Right of Place Second Chance, my attend the meeting.
They have already turned a member of their group away from a meeting held in Kerry a few months ago, they said he was not from the Kerry region. What an excuse. Mr Walsh seems to forget, he is from Waterford, and not Cork, he also tried to have an elected member thrown out of a meeting in Cork, he said he was not a Cork member, but a Waterford member. I could go on forever. But the real reason for not allowing the said member in, and we all know why, He was too clever for them all, and they knew it, isn’t that right Mr Walsh.
They (HIGHLIGHT) the fact that, Against the wishes of Right of Place, Second Chance, a Statuatory Fund is being put in place, and they are Interested in hearing your opinions, and voices on this. What planet are these people on? Everyone already knows, this Trust fund is already past its final stages, and Dead in the water ages ago, and is going to be implemented, no matter what Right of Place Second Chance, or anyone else for that matter says.
They also state, the Bord, which now comprises of just (3) instead of (5) are going to be meeting The Government on July 22nd, and would like to bring forward your suggestions as Survivors. I find this really really WEIRD, because since these people took over the running of that place at Lower Glanmire road, We the Survivors are sick to the teeth telling them in there, what our opinions about This Trust Fund really is. Are they Deaf or what?
Right of Place are giving Survivors a False sense when they say they are against the trust Fund, and that they are fighting Government to overturn it. They clearly stated on their Web-Site, and i will paste it in below for everyone to see for themselves.
“Therefore, Right of Place Second Chance also make the case that – not only should the 110 million be handed over to survivors immediately, but that the 450 million which the church is being asked to hand over to the state as payment for the redress which has already been paid out – should in fact be used as a health/ welfare support aid – for survivors – to aid us in our ill health and support us and our dependents in our time of need.
So that we can live with dignity and die in peace”
Now if that statement is not literally calling for a Trust Fund, i dont know what is. I will guarantee you, when these people go to meet The Government on July 22nd, you may bet your bottom dollar, they will be asking for a Trust Fund, and will tell The Government, thats what the Majority of Survivors have asked for. Of course we will never be told that by them. They are trying to give everyone a false sense that they are actually on your side, when they are NOT. They are simply going in there to secure the nice cushy jobs they already hold, and keep themselves nice and secure. They have a nice Family cartel secured, all of them.
Believe Nothing you hear from Right of Place Second Chance. They are as bad, if not Worse that the last Mob we had in there. Mr Noel C Barry and Co. And i still believe that, Mr Noel C Barry is still working behind the scenes, in the background.
I would urge any Cork member of Right of Place Second Chance to attend this meeting on Thursday evening, in The Imperial Hotel Cork, and meet, and make sure your questions are answered by Mr Michael Walsh once and for all. Also do Not be put off by his sweet talk, and if he has his Legal Team with him, do not be afraid to put your valid questions to him as well, because they are experts at Conning people. We have seen too much of this already.
No doubt they will try and elect their own Cronies to the Cork Branch of Right of Place Second Chance, it is very clear to see what these Parasites are at. They will try their best to control everything, and it is our duty to see that this does NOT happen.
Mr Walsh you are a disgrace and should be ashamed of youself.Mossie has spent 15years in 3 industrial schools who are you to speak to him like that.My wish is for you and all groups would cease to function because all you do is help yourselfs and your family’s.It is time the Irish Government and religious congregations stop funding you and all groups.
Thats awful. Well mr walsh the great dogooder well mossie and others who spent years in these places pay so that you can snob anyone who questions your right to apply to the staturary fund in order to help the invisable forgotten survivers.that shows what kind of treatment you have offered people.the ones from the industriel schools could not argue with you . you cut them down. its easy to humiliate fragile people.
This is a response, by the Chairman of Right of Place second Chance, Mr Walsh to me in a recent Posting.
Chairman 2011-06-13 16:45
mh1,I have an image of you with both of your hands over your ears and stomping the ground because your soother has fallen out!
Grow up. This site is here not to indulge your sense of victim-hood but to encourage, support and engage the very best survivors have to offer.
We all need a little help from time to time and in the present economic climate we should be all pulling in the same direction to push our case forward. We have enough elements out there putting obstacles in our way beside our owen so- called survivors, who bitch, mone, criticse and embarrass all efforts to do good.
Reply | Reply with quote | Quote
My response to Mr Walsh.
Mr Chairman. May I say something personally to you? For a man who is (Supposed) to be the Chairman, of your group Right of Place Second Chance, you have a bloody CHEEK calling me a so-called Survivor, in your last posting
Where did you concoct this Phrase? It’s in your last posting to me. If this is the way you Personally refer to Legitimate Survivors, then the outlook as I see it, is very bleak indeed.
I will have you know Mr Chairman, I spent almost 15years, in 3 Industrial Schools, and How Dare you sir refer to me as, our own so-called survivors, who bitch, moan, criticize, and embarrass all efforts to do good.
You ought to be bloody well ashamed of yourself.
I will be posting this comment onto a properly run Web-Site, along with your reply to me, so Survivors themselves can see, The So Called Chairman who supposedly speak on their behalf, and his Disgraceful Attitude to legitimate Survivors.
Also may I suggest?
If, you continue to edit out, Legitimate Comments from Survivors on your Web Site Mr Walsh, ( Then your Web-Site amounts to nothing more than Hypocrisy)
Please learn how to run an (Unbiased) Web-Siteby viewing the God-Squad Web-Site.
Representatives of some of the 18 religious congregations that managed residential institutions for children investigated by the Ryan commission may not attend a meeting with the Minister for Education Ruairí Quinn next Friday in protest.
They have been invited to the meeting to discuss a €200 million shortfall in an expected 50:50 contribution by them to costs incurred by the State in compensating former residents of the institutions.
The Government is asking congregations named in the Ryan report to transfer ownership of schools to the State to help make up the shortfall.
Last week Mr Quinn said: “I’m asking them for a 50:50 contribution. The taxpayer has already paid out the bulk of it. Their share should be about €680 million and they are half shy of that . . . they need to do far more.”
The Irish Times has learned that the congregations never agreed to make a 50:50 contributions to such State costs, nor was this a recommendation of the report. It is also their intention to ensure that any additional contributions they make will go to survivors and not to the State.
Three of the larger congregations concerned, the Christian Brothers, the Sisters of Mercy and the Oblate Fathers, have ringfenced monies they intend to contribute to a proposed statutory fund for survivors.
Comments by Mr Quinn indicated that “the focus has gone off the survivors”, a well-placed congregations’ source said. “He is following a different agenda” and has “adopted an ideological position. We [the 18 congregations] are not a collective and we are not going to be treated as a collective. There isn’t even an agenda for the [Friday] meeting. We’re not going to be called in like that, to be lectured like that.”
Those who did attend would “go in, listen and say nothing. We certainly won’t be negotiating. The 2002 deal was negotiated. This one is not. We agreed a voluntary contribution and were told to do the best we can, and then in April 2010 we were told it wasn’t enough. Ruairí is no fool. He was minister for finance. He knows we’re not capable of contributing 50:50”.
The first the congregations heard about a 50:50 contribution was on April 15th, 2010, when they met then taoiseach Brian Cowen and ministers, the source said.
A press release afterwards said: “The Government view is that an ultimate outcome that reflects the conclusions in the Ryan report regarding the responsibility of the State and the religious congregations, and so resulted in the overall costs in responding to residential institutional abuse being shared on a 50:50 basis between the taxpayer and those responsible for the residential institutions, would be appropriate.” It continued that “the final cost of the response to residential institutional abuse is estimated to reach €1.36 billion. While the main element of that cost is the redress scheme, other costs include the cost of the Commission to Inquire into Child Abuse and the Education Finance Board.”
As the congregations’ source told The Irish Times that “at no point did the people present [at that April 15th, 2010, meeting] promise or commit themselves to paying 50/50”.
At that meeting “the overall cost of €1.36 billion was presented as covering the costs of the redress scheme and the Ryan commission and the Education Finance Board, a new body, details of which the congregations “do not possess”.
The source continued: “Congregations are, understandably, unclear as to why they should be held responsible for the costs of the Ryan commission, etc. They would appreciate being given the overall costs of the redress board itself as an entity.”
It was pointed out that at a Dáil public accounts committee meeting in July 2004, representatives of the congregations were told “the number of claims escalated from an anticipated 2,000 to 14,000”.
This was “despite warnings from the congregations and lawyers ([during negotiations for the 2002 deal)] that the nature of the scheme would inevitably attract many more. Yet, we, the religious are being held responsible for this miscalculation.”
It was also Government bodies that “decided that a contribution of £100 million punts (or€128 million euro) would be acceptable.”
SCORES of people left St Colman’s Cathedral following afternoon Mass but only a handful were willing to say anything about what went on inside.
They walked passed the St Vincent de Paul collection box and towards the gate. As they did so they lifted their hands, turned their heads and apologised politely when asked to volunteer a reaction.
One after another the members of the congregation declined to comment on Archbishop Dermot Clifford’s letter of apology which had been read out during the homily.
“They are doing the best,” said one man, reflecting on the priests now in charge of the parish.
“It is terrible,” said the woman who came after him.
“I don’t have anything to say about it,” was the response of another.
Many were similarly succinct.
“We already knew what to expect,” a young woman said about the letter. “We had read all about it during the week.”
A smattering of tourists left as well, oblivious to the significance of this Sunday for the diocese of Cloyne.
There was little evidence of anger or hostility from most people.
However, one man welcomed the fact that Dr Clifford’s was an honest and fair account. He said he was glad to be able to hear it directly and not through the media.
Asked for his name he said: “Just call me a massgoer.”
One woman, Catherine O’Driscoll, was more forthright in her views.
“I accept the apology but I do believe that Bishop Magee should have been there to read the letter instead of hiding and I am disgusted with the level of abuse that went on in the church and that they knew about it but sat back and tried to cover it up,” she said.
During the Mass everybody, except for one child, sat quietly as the letter was read out by Fr John McCarthy and, it appeared, that most chose not to follow the words on the printout provided on a table near the porch.
When the basket was passed around on two occasions the amount of notes donated was a sign there was no appetite for a subtle protest.
Afterwards, with misty rain sheeting towards the door of St Colman’s, the desire of most people who left Mass was to walk away quickly rather than linger and digest the message to which they had just been party.
This appeared in the printed version of the Irish Examiner Monday, July 18, 2011
Archbishop accuses bishops of ‘hiding’ unpublished reports
By Claire O’Sullivan, Noel Baker, Conor Ryan and Kathryn Hayes
MONDAY, JULY 18, 2011
THE Archbishop of Dublin has accused bishops of “hiding” unpublished child abuse reports rather than making them public.
Referring to three such reports, Archbishop Diarmuid Martin said there was no point having documents “that were not published”.
“If the bishop feels he is being treated unjustly, publish it and then say this is unjust,” he said. “But hiding isn’t helping.”
Archbishop Dermot Clifford, who took over the running of Cloyne Diocese after Bishop John Magee stepped down, said he hoped Dr Magee, who has not appeared in public since the report was published, would come forward and “meet a media group representative” to discuss the implications of the Cloyne report.
Archbishop Clifford said an “awful lot will have to be done to make sure it [the abuse] doesn’t happen again”, but this was being tackled.
Victims have urged the Vatican to strip both Dr Magee and Monsignor Denis O’Callaghan of their titles for their failure to handle claims of abuse.
Meanwhile, it could be months before gardaí will know if criminal investigations can be launched on the back of the Cloyne report. Of the 19 priests named, 10 are dead and one has left the priesthood.
Victim support group One in Four has claimed nine out of 10 of the complaints it made to the HSE about suspected sex offenders were not being followed up.
Children’s Minister Frances Fitzgerald said the cases needed to be assessed to see if there was any current risk to children, and that the Government would make sure the cases were investigated.
This appeared in the printed version of the Irish Examiner Monday, July 18, 2011
Mona O' Farrell ,Berna O' Reilly, Mary and Tommy. >Sean RIP. says:
You are so right Pauline. Those Groups like Aislinn,Soca Uk, Soca Ireland , ROP Cork , Alliance for Victims of Abuse, have all been working for the Government and Religious Abusers and well paid to cover the horrors Victims were subjected to as Babies and young children in Industrial Reformatories. Did Mrs Buckley go to the redress Board I wonder or the HIGH COURT????? did she settle for a few Euro’s ???????and Insulted and abused again at the Redress Board seen as she was the Nun’s pet I doubt it.
If i understand right the staturary fund is for the survivers who went to the redress board. But Mr walsh claims to represent the forgotten ones. but thay dident go to the redress board.there is no harm meant to anyone but if forgotten then how come Mr walsh gets funding out of the monies of the staturary fund.
You’re welcome Catherine. Its great to have a site like Paddy s where you can express your opinion, knowing that your contribution, if its not liked, it wont be published. Not like other sites i know.
Thanks both of you . mossie you are very kind in sharing information. this means a lot to me as im sure for others living abroad. and its such a nice change.Perhaps in the future there will be real teachers teaching all matters to the children of the future. These people in the church are to ready to try anything in order to hang on to the money earned dishonstly. the schools should belong to the state and as we know . nuns and priests go in for brain washing thay should be kept out of education.
By Conor Ryan Investigative Correspondent
THURSDAY, JULY 07, 2011
THE 46 most valuable education assets held by the religious orders were not offered to the state under a renegotiated redress deal in 2010.
Instead, the bulk of these high-value sites went to religious-based trusts.
The Sisters of Mercy, which held the largest asset portfolio of any of the orders named in the Ryan Report, had 117 school-related properties worth over €1 million.
It has offered to sign over seven of these as part of its contribution to the redress bill, in addition to five sites valued below €1m.
The Department of Education said that subject to some of these being suitable, it would look into transferring the assets. But it will discount the values based on grants supplied to the institutions in previous years.
The Sisters of Mercy’s renewed €127m cash and land offer did not include any of its 13 schools worth over €10m. Together, these select parcels were worth €248m.
The Sisters of Mercy and four other orders have committed to putting secondary school assets into the Ceist/Educena trusts, which will run the schools.
The Presentation Sisters are also involved in this scheme and put 36 of its schools, worth €98m, into the trust in 2007.
Similarly, the Christian Brothers put €430m in school sites into the Edmund Rice Schools Trust prior to the reopening of negotiations with the then government in 2009.
These were not assessed by the department ahead of the release of Education Minister Ruairí Quinn’s summary document.
The Presentation Brothers Schools Trust was set up to handle €21m-worth of education buildings on a lease agreement for 999 years. If the company winds up, the assets would immediately divert back to the brothers.
The two trusts and Ceist/Educena are now separate entities and it is not clear if their assets can form part of the renegotiations.
A spokesperson for Mr Quinn said he appreciates there are complex legal issues surrounding the ownership of many sites, but it was something he wished to explore in co-operation with the orders involved.
The only other school site suggested to the new redress package was put forward by the Sisters of St Clare.
This was a former primary school in Ballyjamesduff, Cavan, worth €275,000. This congregation did not provide details on the rest of its school buildings.
The Sisters of Charity had more than €60m in education sites available to it, 21 of which worth over €1m. It has made a new cash offer of €5m, of which €1m has been delivered.
The Dominican Friars chose not to put any value on its Newbridge College Campus in Kildare.
The education banks for 12 of the 18 orders named in the Ryan Report show that 46 of the sites were worth over €5m each, while 152 school premises would have been expected to sell for over €2m apiece.
Of the 13 school-based properties put on the table by the orders, seven were valued over €1m. The most attractive was the former Sisters of Mercy boarding school in Clonakilty, Co Cork, worth €4m.
This appeared in the printed version of the Irish Examiner Thursday, July 07, 2011
By Conor Ryan, Investigative Correspondent
THURSDAY, JULY 07, 2011
JUST seven of the 200 religious-run schools worth over €1 million each have been offered as part of contributions to the abuse compensation fund, it has emerged.
Figures compiled by the Irish Examiner also show none of the 46 schools worth over €5m each are on the table as part of the talks between the Government and the 18 religious orders named in the Ryan Report.
Nineteen of the more lucrative school sites are worth a combined €301m, including the Sisters of Mercy secondary school campus at Ballyroan in south-west Dublin, which has a price tag of €33.5m.
Some 15 of this order’s schools were worth in excess of €10m when its assets were assessed in mid-2009.
To date, the 18 orders have offered just 12 schools worth €18m to the state — all bar one are from the Sisters of Mercy.
The Sisters of St Clare has offered a €275,000 former primary school in Cavan.
Education Minister Ruairí Quinn told the orders their offers do not go far enough to meeting the cost of the €1.3 billion redress bill.
He said, because of the lack of offers and the unsuitability of certain properties, the religious congregations needed to find over €300m in additional cash and property.
Mr Quinn proposed that much of the gap could be bridged if the orders involved in education were willing to sign over schools to the legal ownership of the state.
This was described as a compromise that would see the orders give what is perceived to be their fair share without eating into the funds they need to care for ageing members.
Asset reports supplied to the Irish Examiner under the Freedom of Information Act show the vast amount of educational assets held by these orders did not feature in redress offers made to the state.
Instead, the orders opted to establish separate charitable trusts and transfer the bulk of their school properties to these new companies.
A spokesman for the Sisters of Mercy said it would not comment while the engagement with the minister was ongoing.
In 2010 it made an additional redress offer of €127m, which included €20m in cash.
This appeared in the printed version of the Irish Examiner Thursday, July 07, 2011
Quinn says he’ll call in bailiffs to get church abuse cash
By John Cooney Religion Correspondent
Wednesday July 06 2011
THE Government will call in bailiffs to collect a €375m compensation shortfall from 16 Catholic religious orders responsible for horrific child abuse in industrial schools.
The threat came after it emerged that only two of 18 orders have agreed to cover half the €1.36bn bill to taxpayers for clerical child abuse payouts.
In a clear warning of the Government’s intent to recoup state payouts, Education Minister Ruairi Quinn yesterday intensified the pressure on the orders to sign up to new laws allowing the State to seize assets.
Mr Quinn said he wanted congregations to agree to allow the State to identify assets and property such as schools, nursing homes, playing fields and land and legally take possession of them.
There would be blocking orders on transferring titles without prior consent of the Government, he said.
Mr Quinn added that this approach would afford the congregations the opportunity to shoulder their share of the cost of responding to abuse of children in their care.
Mr Quinn said he was disappointed at the low level of offers made since the 2009 Ryan report revealed the shocking scale of decades-long sexual, physical and psychological abuse of the most vulnerable in residential institutions.
“The congregations’ total offers fall well short, by several hundred million, of the €680m contribution they should bear towards the cost of institutional residential child abuse,” said Mr Quinn.
“In April, I called on the orders to consider handing over appropriate school infrastructure as a way to make progress towards the 50-50 target contribution. I reiterate that call now,” he said
In a statement, Mr Quinn said that only a quarter of their total property offers were of current interest to the State. The value of those 12 properties, based on the congregations’ own valuations, amounted to roughly €60m, he added.
Property
The full list of property offered includes 49 Christian Brothers’ playing fields; the Presentation Sisters’ St Bernard’s Group Home, Fethard, Co Tipperary; the Sisters of Our Lady of Charity childcare facility at Gracepark Road, Drumcondra, Dublin; and the Sisters of St Clare primary school, Ballyjamesduff, Co Cavan.
The stand-off dates back to 2002 when Taoiseach Bertie Ahern and Education Minister Michael Woods signed a controversial indemnity deal placing a ceiling of €128m on the amount to be paid by the orders.
In 2009 this was increased when the orders offered to contribute an additional €100m which was judged by the Government still to be inadequate.
In April 2010, to meet a shortfall of €200m, Taoiseach Brian Cowen and Education Minister Batt O’Keeffe told the orders to raise their offer to €375m in line with the Ryan recommendation of a 50-50 division.
THE offers by religious congregations to meet their half of a €1.36 billion compensation bill for victims of child sex abuse have so far fallen “well short” of what they are required to pay.
Education Minister Ruairí Quinn expressed his disappointment that only two of the 18 congregations have responded to a call last April to improve on previous contributions of €476.5 million in order to bridge a compensation shortfall of over €200m.
“Despite the state’s call for the congregations to supplement their original offers, only two out of the 18 congregations have replied positively to make up a shortfall of some €200m. One congregation has offered to give €1m towards the costs of the national children’s hospital and to refund some or all of its legal costs, while another offered to transfer a former primary school. None of the other congregations have supplemented their original offers,” he said.
The Government, as well as the Ryan Report in 2009, said the €1.36bn compensation bill should be shared on a 50:50 basis between the taxpayer and those congregations responsible for managing the institutions where the horrendous child abuse took place.
Under the 2002 Indemnity Agreement, the 18 congregations involved agreed to a contribution of €128m, comprising cash, property and counselling services.
After the 2009 publication of the Ryan Report, they proposed putting up over €100m in cash and offered to transfer property, that they valued at €235.5m, to various state agencies and voluntary organisations.
Responding to these proposals, Mr Quinn said acknowledged some progress had been made, but expressed disappointment at the offers to date.
“Of the properties offered to the state, only 12 have been identified as of potential immediate benefit to the state and these will be pursued. In fact, only a quarter of the total property offers made to date by the congregations are of current interest to the state.
“The value of these 12 properties, based on the congregations’ own valuations, is approximately €60m.”
Mr Quinn said he would ask the congregations to agree to allow the state to identify various properties and legally take possession of them. He also intends to create a legal mechanisms to ensure that title on properties can not be transferred without the prior consent of the Department of Education.
Congregations are also to be asked to transfer properties of specific interest to or currently leased by the state.
“I believe that this approach affords the congregations involved the opportunity to shoulder their share of the costs of responding to the horrendous wrongs suffered by children in their care, while at the same time, recognising the legitimate legacy of their contribution to Irish education,” said Mr Quinn.
The Government is also to proceed with a €110m trust to fund the Residential Institutions Statutory Fund to support the victims of institutional abuse.
This appeared in the printed version of the Irish Examiner Wednesday, July 06, 2011
JUST €20.6 million of the €348.5m promised by 16 of the 18 religious congregations in the wake of the Ryan Report has been paid to date.
The Rosminian and Good Shepherd congregations said they had nothing more to contribute in addition to what they paid in 2002, as part of the €128m package agreed with all 18 congregations under the indemnity agreement.
Following the publication of the Ryan Report, 16 of the 18 Congregations offered additional contributions which they valued at €348.51m and which included various property transfer proposals, valued at €235.51m, to different state bodies and voluntary organisations.
One congregation offered 16 properties to the proposed statutory fund to support the victims of residential institutional abuse.
However, just €20.6m of this figure has been handed over, while just 12 of the properties are deemed to be of immediate potential benefit to the state.
The overall value of these properties amounts to just €60m based on the €235.51m in property valuations from the congregations. The other property offers were not considered to be of immediate interest to the state.
In relation to the offers of property to the voluntary sector, only one of the 16 properties was deemed of benefit to the state.
The remaining properties therefore cannot count as part of the contribution.
The offers of property include 49 Christian Brothers’ playing fields; St Bernard’s Group Home in Fethard, Tipperary from the Presentation Sisters; a childcare facility at Gracepark Road, in Drumcondra Dublin and the Sisters of St Clare primary school in Ballyjamesduff, Cavan, from the Sisters of Our Lady of Charity.
The Sisters of Mercy offered several schools: St Joseph’s VEC College, Carrick on Suir; the Adult Education Centre, Waterford; land at Convent Road, Cahir; Seamount Convent and College, Kinvara, Galway; Scoil Mhuire Secondary and Mercy Primary School, Ennistymon, Clare; and the Old Primary School and Hall, Trim, Meath.
The order also put forward the McAuley Centre, Kells, Meath; Beaumont Convalescent Home and grounds, north Dublin; 33 acres at the National Rehabilitation Hospital in Dún Laoghaire; and St Anne’s Lenaboy Castle, Taylor’s Hill, Galway.
Only two of the 18 religious congregations responded to a call last April to improve on previous contributions in order to bridge a €200m shortfall in the compensation they are required to pay.
One congregation, the Presentation Brothers, offered to provide €1m toward the costs of the national children’s hospital and to refund some or all of its legal costs. The Sisters of St Clare have offered to transfer a former primary school.
The remaining congregations have made no additional offers to the Government.
This appeared in the printed version of the Irish Examiner Wednesday, July 06, 2011
Statutory fund will support the former residents of institutions
By Catherine Shanahan
WEDNESDAY, JULY 06, 2011
THE Government is to proceed with legislation to establish a statutory fund with the power to arrange and grant-aid a range of services to support victims of residential institutional abuse.
The Residential Institutions Statutory Fund will be funded by the €110 million in cash offered to it by religious congregations by way of compensation to those abused in their care.
It follows extensive consultations with survivors of residential abuse and a public consultation process.
The seven-member fund will be run by a chief executive answerable to the Public Accounts Committee (PAC) and will fall within the scope of the Ombudsman and Freedom of Information legislation.
Announcing the measure yesterday, Education and Skills Minister Ruairi Quinn said more than 13,000 former residents who have received awards from the Residential Institutions Redress Board will be eligible to apply for support from the fund.
“Some former residents advocate a simple distribution of the available money,” he said.
“However, I believe that the fund should target resources at services to support former residents’ needs, such as counselling, psychological support services and mental health services, health and personal social services, educational services and housing services.”
To date, contributions of €20.6m have been received towards the statutory fund. These and the remaining contributions to be received will be invested in an investment account to be established by the National Treasury Management Agency (NTMA).
The fund will take over the functions of the Education Finance Board for abuse survivors, which will be dissolved. As responsibility for information for survivors will also be taken on by the fund, funding of survivor groups by the Department of Education will cease.
The fund will have the power to hold and dispose of land or an interest in land, and may acquire, hold and dispose of any other property. Two of its members will be former residents of institutions.
Under the proposed legislation, anyone who knowingly makes a false statement or produces a false document for the purposes of obtaining assistance from the fund will be guilty of an offence and liable on summary conviction to a fine of up to €1,500 or imprisonment for up to 6 months, or both. If convicted on indictment, the fine imposed can be up to €13,000 or imprisonment for up to 3 years, or both.
This appeared in the printed version of the Irish Examiner Wednesday, July 06, 2011
Hundreds of laundry survivors entitled to apologies and pensions, group claims
By Noel Baker
WEDNESDAY, JULY 06, 2011
THE academic leading the Justice for Magdalene group said he believed an apology from the Government was imminent and that statutory pensions should then be provided to “hundreds” of survivors.
James Smith, associate professor at Boston College, spoke yesterday, a day after presenting findings on state complicity in the Magdalene Laundries to Justice Minister Alan Shatter.
It is understood some survivors attended yesterday’s presentation at UCD’s Humanities Institute.
Using research garnered from a number of sources, Prof Smith outlined how the state was, at various points in the past century, aware that young girls and women were being detained illegally at the laundries but did not inform the residents.
Prof Smith said that, in the event of an apology being offered by the Government, some survivors would still not come forward because of the stigma.
“That does not mean that an apology would not be meaningful.”
He was, however, optimistic the Government would issue an apology, possibly around the time of the interim report into the findings made by JFM in its document Justice for Magdalenes: Narrative of State Interaction with the Magdalene Laundries.
It looks at the interaction between the laundries and numerous government departments, made a number of findings and raised more questions.
The research showed that, in 1936, the then government knew there was no statutory basis for the provision of courts to send women to the laundries.
Prof Smith also said the research indicated past governments knew the women were entitled to leave the laundries but never told them.
“The state turned a blind eye to the fact there was never a statutory basis [for it].”
Likewise, gardaí often brought women to the laundries or returned them if they tried to escape, when there was no basis for it.
The Kennedy Report of 1970 looking at the Department of Education’s role suggested many voluntary committals were “haphazard” and led to women staying for indefinite periods when they should have been dealt with through the reformatory system.
A letter sent to one survivor just this year apologises to the woman as there was only one record of her stay at the Good Shepherd Sisters in Waterford, even though records seemed to show she had been transferred there from a mother-and-baby home.
As for the work carried out at the laundries, for which no fair wages were paid, proof was found that as recently as 1982 work contracts from the Department of Defence were being issued to the laundries, although under the Factories Act 1955 these should have been treated as factories — meaning there should have been an entitlement to a statutory pension.
According to Prof Smith the laundries were never made to comply. He said he understood there were “hundreds, but not thousands” of surviving women who are now entitled to a state pension as a result, but that an apology was needed first.
A similar presentation was made later yesterday to the Oireachtas Committee dealing with the Magdalene Laundries.
This appeared in the printed version of the Irish Examiner Wednesday, July 06, 2011
€12.5m of child abuse commission’s €12.9m budget is for legal fees
By Niall Murray, Education Correspondent
WEDNESDAY, JULY 06, 2011
THE Department of Education has set aside almost €12.5 million to meet legal costs associated with the Commission to Inquire into Child Abuse this year.
Although the Ryan Commission issued its final report in May 2009, it is still working on payment of legal bills.
The department had set aside €12.5m for the commission last year to this end, but the anticipated level of costs from solicitors and barristers was not paid out.
Only €1.8m was spent on non-pay items by the commission last year and third-party legal costs totalling €21.5m had been paid up to the end of 2010.
However, that left an estimated €30m-€40m still to be paid, based on legal bills already being processed and those which had yet to be received earlier this year.
Education Minister Ruairi Quinn told the Oireachtas Select Sub-Committee on Education yesterday that the commission’s voted budget for 2011 of €12.9m is largely accounted for by the anticipated payment of legal bills. Around €500,000 is being set aside for pay costs associated with three personnel at the commission.
The Residential Institutions Redress Board has been allocated €45m this year, €4m more than it spent in awards and other payments in 2010. By the end of last year, the board had processed almost 14,400 applications from victims of abuse in residential care and made just under 13,500 awards, but the total cost of the redress scheme is still estimated to eventually top €1.1 billion.
This appeared in the printed version of the Irish Examiner Wednesday, July 06, 2011
By Conor Ryan, Investigative Correspondent
TUESDAY, JULY 05, 2011
LAND surrounding a former mass grave at the largest Magdalene Laundry was quietly sold by the order of nuns who ran it for €61.8 million during the boom.
The revelation emerged as representatives of the women imprisoned in the laundries met with Justice Minister Alan Shatter.
They discussed the new inquiry and their case for an apology, compensation and a pension for the women involved.
The Justice For Magdalenes group (JFM) said the €296m made in property deals during the boom by the four orders who ran the laundries must form part of the conversation on redress.
The Magdalene Laundry site at High Park, Drumcondra, was the second most lucrative deal involving 18 religious orders responsible for abusing children in residential homes. In total, the 18 orders made €667m in property deals between 1999 and 2009.
When the Sisters of Our Lady of Charity first sold a £1.5m tract from the same High Park campus in the early 1990s, construction workers found a grave where 133 women were buried.
In 2009, the order told the Department of the Taoiseach it had sold two more parcels of land on the same High Park site.
The larger sale was made in 2006 when Barina Construction paid €55m for a 2.7-hectare green area inside the compound.
Six years earlier, a site that housed the laundry’s Martana House was transferred for €6.68m.
When it supplied the sales data to the Department of the Taoiseach, the order asked that the information would not be circulated beyond the committee charged with examining the assets of religious congregations.
The order also informed the department it had agreed to swap its second, and smaller, Magdalene Laundry at Sean McDermott Street with Dublin City Council.
As part of the exchange, the council supplied it with a free 20-year lease for a purpose-built hostel and a new convent.
Neither Barina Construction, Dublin City Council or the Sisters of Our Lady of Charity were in a position to comment on the deals.
Yesterday, JFM and other representatives of the Magdalene survivors met with Mr Shatter for over two hours to discuss the inquiry into alleged torture.
The laundries were run by the Sisters of Mercy, the Good Shepherd Sisters, the Sisters of Our Lady of Charity and the Sisters of Charity.
JFM group spokesman Jim Smith said they were assured all departmental records would be made available to the new committee, chaired by Senator Martin McAleese.
Mr Smith also welcomed assurances the inquiry would be cleared to investigate cases where the state was complicit by failing to act as well as incidents where it paid directly for services.
Reacting to revelations in the Irish Examiner, Education Minister Ruairí Quinn said he was reopening negotiations with the congregations involved.
He said if they were not willing to provide an additional €200m towards the redress compensation, he would have to make unwelcome cuts elsewhere in the education budget.
This appeared in the printed version of the Irish Examiner Tuesday, July 05, 2011
Paddy i know what you mean about capital letters, I know i use this system as i find it easier to type as my education was not great as a surviver
i am self taught.
I cannot show these shower of conmen and gangsters any respect for what they are and have done to us abused, ripping us off with their cosy jobs and expenses. (and keeping it all in the family)and wont answer any awakard guestions.
not one statment on the monies made by the religious orders by selling properties,by r.o.p.cork. again we had to wait for the Cork Examinerto highlight same.(Of course we can all join the fishing club).not one bit of pressure on the government on the trust fund they just sit in their new offices and take the monie like (judas)
So Paddy i apoligise to you and other survivers but no way will i apoligise to these parisites
Wow and ireland is a small country. When you consider all the other countrys in which thay work and make money such as India’ the us and all the others thay make millions everywhere. But what is it for.!!!!. on this earth thay own so much space its whierd.that makes the man who represents Jesus a very very rich buisness man. and then we have all the people who work for them and keep thier vows of poverty. thay deserve to recieve thier wages and more.
DESPITE offloading over €670 million worth of land during the property boom, the religious orders at the centre of the redress re-negotiations retained €3.1 billion in property assets.
Even after two years of slumping property prices, the portfolios of the 18 congregations showed a substantial asset base when they were assessed in mid-2009. Many of these sites continue to raise revenue by selling services to the state.
Three of the four orders that ran the notorious Magdalene laundries have earned €86m from the Heath Service Executive in the past five years.
The review of the congregations’ assets was done after €127m had already been paid out to the survivors of abuse in residential homes. The review did not include the transfer of hundreds of millions of euro to religious-run trusts.
And it also came following a 10-year period in which an ageing and dwindling number of nuns and brothers in 17 of these orders made €676m from selling property to a frenzied market.
Education Minister Ruairi Quinn is now demanding the orders sign over €200m worth of school property so their overall contribution for compensation to abuse survivors hits €680m. The orders have so far committed to delivering €476.51m, including a cash sum of €110m towards a statutory fund for survivors of residential abuse.
The renewed deal was formulated on the basis of a review of the orders’ assets that was delivered to the Government in 2009. This involved the orders engaging valuers and consultants to pore over their vast and complex portfolios.
Parts of this were released to the Irish Examiner under the Freedom of Information Act and are reproduced today and tomorrow. These documents show that the Sisters of Mercy — the property sales of which can be seen to the right — is by far the most powerful order in terms of assets and an intriguing case study in its interaction with the state so far.
Of the orders, it made the most amount of money during the boom and diversified widely in terms of its business. It had the assets to offload at the peak of the bubble and utilised these shrewdly.
In terms of value, 44% of its deals (€72m) were done in 2006 and 2007. However. the number of trades in this period accounted for just 20% of its 195 individual transactions over the 10-year period.
These years were crowned by a €32m trade for 16 acres in Killarney and €18m for a car park at Crofton Road in Dun Laoghaire, next to its former laundry.
The Sisters of Mercy also tried to cut out the middle-man by handling its own development project, but it appears to have been stung by arriving to the market too late. In 2009, it put six houses in its Cois Abhainn development in Athlone up for sale and sold them for between €200,000 and €290,000. However, in 2009, 10 of these were still on the market with a value of €125,000 for the smaller units.
At this time, it was still active elsewhere. Despite the nationwide collapse in values, the order sold land in Castlebar for the unusual sum of €666,666 in the months before its assets were reviewed. In mid-2009 it still had land worth €1bn and financial assets of €182m. This did not include what it owned outside the Republic of Ireland.
So far, it has made a €33m contribution to the original redress scheme. On top of that, it has committed €80m in properties to the state, €15m to the voluntary sector and €31m in cash and property to the former residents of its residential institutions.
The congregation said €998m of its remaining assets were restricted and much of the ownership was in the process of being transferred to other religious entities.
Primary schools worth €256m were earmarked for transfer to the various diocesan authorities and €200m was tied up in housing its 2,088 sisters.
The bulk of its restricted property was made up of a €412m network of secondary schools that were due to be handed over to a Catholic education trust incorporating the Sisters of Mercy, the Presentation Sisters, the Sisters of the Christian Retreat, the Missionaries of the Sacred Heart and the Daughters of Charity. This trust is split into two companies: Ceist Ltd and Educena Ltd. Only three of these congregations were involved in the Redress Scheme.
During the boom, these three redress congregations in Ceist/Educena made a combined €268m from the sale of property.
Despite this, the Sisters of Mercy, the Daughters of Charity and the Presentation Sisters retained assets worth €1.7bn. In 2007, 37 of their schools were transferred to Ceist the Daughters of Charity (1) and the Presentation Sisters (36), which took almost €100m off their balance sheets. The Irish Examiner was unable to ascertain the current value of these sites or the extent of its transfers since 2009.
The most recent set of accounts for Ceist Ltd, the company established to oversee the trust, show that the trust’s assets have been kept separate from its business. Accounts filed with the Companies Office last month show Ceist Ltd was trading, had a turnover of €1.6m, but only had €557,209 worth of tangible assets. On account of its small size, it availed of a legal exemption not to make a detailed cashflow statement public. The Educena Foundation had fixed assets of less than €500.
Both were contacted in advance of this article but did not supply a spokesperson to comment.
This appeared in the printed version of the Irish Examiner Monday, July 04, 2011
I wouldnt know about survivers fighting each other. i only know that asking questions seems to really get on thier nerves. thay seem to be saying that thay devote thier lives to survivers. But which ones.if the fighting is about people asking question well thats not fighting.The mythical good work is something that was drumed into me as a child. And i dont believe it.As we all know family members all can use these groups but how many family members the group leaders have might explain things.If all of them are members well thats a lot of people.So we get ignored.no help no solidarity except on here’and no answers to any questions.
Just a short note to remind people writing to this website is always welcome but that writing in CAPITAL LETTERS IS SEEN TO BE SHOUTING. I know that is not anyone’s intention, I just mention it in passing. Best wishes.
Paddy.
YES I DO SEE YOUR POINT. ALL THE RELEVANT PEOPLE, IE GOVERNMENT AND OTHER INTERESTED PARTIES KNOW THIS, BUT NO ONE IS DOING ANYTHING ABOUT IT.
AS LONG AS SURVIVORS ARE FIGHTING AMONG THEMSELVES, THE GOVERNMENT DONT CARE, OR WANT TO KNOW.
THESE GROUPS ARE DOING EXACTLY WHAT NOEL C BARRY AND HIS GROUP DID WHEN HE HELD THE REIGNS.
NO ONE SEEMS TO CARE, AND THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS ACCOUNTABILITY, SO IT SEEMS. LOOK AT THE WAY GOVERNMENT IS RUN, EVERY DAY YOU HEAR OF MONIES BEING SQUANDERED IN EVERY DEPARTMENT IN THIS COUNTRY. THE WHOLE COUNTRY IS A SHAMBLES, AND WORSE OF ALL. NO ONE GIVES A DAMN.
I have posted this question on Right of place Website, but putting it up on Paddy’s Site also, in case ROP forget to put it on theirs.
Micheal,
Mh1, I thank you for your questions. We welcome any Survivor or member coming onto this website, or our Forum and asking questions.
This piece of information i copied and pasted from your recent reply to me, i am including it in my question.
Why is it then, whenever i ask a question on this site to Mr Walsh all i get is silence, and no response from him.
All i do get is Bullying tactics from some of his followers and Arrogance. You have stated that you welcome people asking questions on this site. This Sir is exactly what i am doing. Is there a problem with your Father answering relevant questioned from Survivors. If this is the case, can you explain to me, and other Survivors why this is so.
What I meant was for the people with contacts and connections, trust and credibility, to perhaps probe and inform on this platform. All this business of “alleged fraud and mis-appropriation” seems to be happening in a vacuum. Can we not be told that, enquiries are taking place, or matters are sub-judice or any news on that front? Surely with accountability so important these days when the purses are squeezed dry, SOMEBODY is looking into that! Even with the newly-elected government U-turns, there must be interest in this story of monies going the wrong way!
Personally, I am not seeking anything from anyone. I am just 100% on your side.
PAULINE, THEY ONLY PUT ARTICLES ON THIS SITE, TO CRITICIZE PEOPLE WHO GIVE THEM A HARD TIME BY ASKING QUESTIONS. YOU SEE, THEY DONT LIKE BEING QUIZZED. WHEN YOU ASK A QUESTION, YOU ARE CLASSED AS A TROUBLEMAKER. TYPICAL.
RUMOURS PAULINE IS ALL YOU WILL GET. I KNOW NO ONE WHO CAN TELL ME FOR A FACT, WHAT THAT LOT HAS DONE FOR ANYONE, FUNNY, NEITHER CAN (RIGHT OF PLACE) THEY ARE EXACTLY LIKE THE LAST BUNCH OF DICTATORS THAT RAN THAT SO CALLED GROUP IN LOWER GLANMIRE ROAD.
YOU ARE CORRECT AND RIGHT ALSO WHEN YOU SAY, (WHY DO WE NEED THESE GROUPS) THE ANSWER TO THAT QUESTION IS CATEGORICALLY (WE DONT) WE DO NOT NEED THEM AT ALL. ITS A WASTE OF TAXPAYERS MONEY, OR THEN MAYBE ALL THIS MONEY USED TO RUN THESE GROUPS IS COMING OUT OF THE SURVIVOR FUNDS? WHO KNOWS.
AGAIN PAULINE, TRY CONTACTING THAT LOT IN (GLANMIRE ROAD) MAYBE THEY WILL BE ABLE TO HELP, IF YOURE LUCKY.
RAYMOND, IF YOU ARE RELYING ON THE GOVERNMENT, OR PRESS, OR ANYONE FOR THET MATTER TO GIVE YOU INFORMATION, I’M AFAID WAITING YOU WILL BE.
THEY ARE NOT LISTENING TO SURVIVORS, THEY SEE ALL THESE COMPLAINTS EVERY DAY, BUT IGNORE THEM. THE LIKES OF RIGHT OF PLACE, AND THEIR EQUALS SEEM TO BE GETTING PLENTY OF FUNDING FROM THE HSE, AND OTHER ENTITIES, BUT GOD ONLY KNOWS WHERE ALL THIS ASSISTANCE IS GOING.
THEY CLAIM THEY ARE NOT BEING PAID FOR THEIR SERVICES, BUT THEN THEY DONT TELL YOU ABOUT THEIR VAST EXPENSES THEY CLAIM. NO, THEY WILL NEVER TELL YOU ABOUT THAT.
ALL THEY ARE, IS A REFERRAL SERVICE, AND NOTHING MORE. THEY SEEM TO HAVE A DATABASE, WHICH LOOKS LIKE IT HAS BEEN TAKEN OVER FROM THE PREVIOUS DICTATOR, AND USING IT TO CLAIM FUNDING FROM THE VARIOUS ORGANIZATIONS. BUT WHEN YOU ASK THEM TO EXPLAIN THE WHEREABOUTS THE NAMES ON THIS DATABASE WERE REQUIRED, THEY CLAM UP, AND GET OTHERS TO CRITICIZE YOU.
RAYMOND TRY ASKING (RIGHT OF PLACE) AND MAYBE THEY WILL BE ABLE TO HELP. I WISH YOU LUCK, BUT THEN AGAIN, DONT HOLD YOUR BREATH. REGARDS. MOSSIE.
GERRY? GERRY? GERRY? OR SHOULD IT BE MICHEAL, OR MICHAEL OR ANOTHER OF THE WALSH FAMILY YOUR ATTACK ON MOSSIE SOUNDS SO FAMILIAR.
REMEMBER MICHEAL WALSH ATTACKED THAT MAN MOSSIE FOR ASKING QUESTIONS ON THE ELECTION AND MISSING
AND UNACCOUNTED MONIES AND RUNNING OF ROP IN CORK AND SURPRISE SURPRISE WE FOUND OUT THAT MICHEAL IS THE SON OF MICHAEL WALSH NOW RUNNING ROP.AND NOT TOO LONG AGO GOT EMPLOYED BY HIS FATHER .WHAT A SET UP. KEEP THE GRAVY TRAIN IN THE FAMILY.
YOU MADE A BIG ISSUE ABOUT THE TWO DIRECTORS WHO RESIGNED FROM ROP .YOU NEVER MENTIONED THE INTERVIEW IN THE CORK EXAMINER BY JENNIFER HOUGH WITH MR TOM BRENNEN WHY HE RESIGNED , HOW CONVIENENT
YOU SAID YOU GOT ANSWERS FROM ROP IN CORK YOU MUST HAVE A FOUR LEAF CLOVER YOU ARE THE ONLY ONE WHO EVER GOT ANSWERS. WERE THEY THE RIGHT QUESTIONS????.NO WAY.
YOU MENTIONED 5O PEOPLE AT A MEETING IN WATERFORD NO WONDER THEY WOULD BE 50, DONT THE WALSH FAMILY AND FRIENDS OF THE FAMILY LIVE IN WATERFORD
YOU NEVER MENTIONED THE ATTENDENCE OF THE MEETING
IN KERRY WHEN YOU COULD COUNT THE ATTENDENCE ON ONE HAND.
FINALY WHILE THOSE PARASITES IN ROP ARE RUNNING THE SURVIVERS INTRESTS WE WILL NEVER GET ANYTHING. ALL THE FUNDING WILL BE DIVIDED BETWEEN THE BOARD AND THE COMMITTEES IN WAGES AND THESE NOT ON WAGES ,WILL GET IT FOR EXPENSES, SO HANG IN THERE GERRY THEY WILL INCLUDE YOU IN THE GRAVEY TRAIN SOON.
AND TO MAKE IT QUITE CLEAR I DONT KNOW THIS MOSSIE BUT ONLY FOR HIM AND OTHERS WHO ARE NOT AFRAID TO ASK QUESTIONS AND WILL NOT BE PUT OFF
BY LIES BLUFF AND INSULTS THE TRUTH WILL COME OUT IN THE END YE SHOULD ALL BE ASHAMED OF YOUR SELVES
YERE WORST THAN BARRY AND BUCKLEY
Hi Mosse, Thank you for your reply, glad you see and agree with my observation’s .It is sad that we are reduced , as Survivors, to asking questions of these groups,and not getting answers!
Like Paulene, their are thousands living abroad, alone, and there is no mention by any of these group’s of just what kind of support, advice etc , they can expect from these group’s!
Many of these folk abroad are struggling, financially and healthwise, yet receive no assistance or advice as to how to access help from the various Depts of the Government, Like the Education Finance Board, HSE, Cori, etc, when they apply for aid, they are fobbed off, or put on hold, or told of conditions that what they apply for ,simply dont qualify for the grants or assitance they seek.
Seems to me that if Survivors dont live in the South of Ireland , they dont qualify, as far as these groups are concerned, their offices , meeting places and outreach help they boast of , is of no use to us living outside these areas!
But , it still does not stop them sending us pamplets ,forms, etc ,to solicit our support, and enhance their membership, which helps them , but not us!
Most of us living abroad are now in our elder years, suffering various problems, and need the Government to give serious consideration to our request’s to be heard, to be properly redressed, and to understand that because of our current situation, a S/T/Fund would simply amount to adding to our burden, and would not serve us proper justice.
The Government need to be made aware that the current situation is not helping Survivors,it is adding further to the anxiety and distress of Survivors, by retaining the Contributions the Religious made, and not using it to redress the very folk it was intended for, the damaged and abused Children of Holy Ireland.
HI JAMES, YES I GUESS WE WOULD BE MORE THAN CORRECT IN ASSUMING THAT THIS IS WHERE HE GOT ALL THESE NAMES OF SURVIVORS HE (CLAIMS) TO HAVE, I DONT KNOW ANYWHERE ELSE HE COULD HAVE ATTAINED THEM FROM.
AS FOR THE MUNSTER GROUP, I DONT KNOW WHERE THEY GOT THE NAMES THEY HAVE FROM, I DO KNOW THEY HAVE BEEN CANVASSING FOR SUPPORT FROM SURVIVORS, AND I GUESS AT LEAST THEY ARE ASKING SURVIVORS TO SIGN UP. WHERE AS (ROP) AS FAR AS I CAN SEE, MUST BE USING THE OLD DATABASE FROM NOEL BARRY’S ERA. WHICH OF COURSE IS TOTALLY ILLEGAL.
I GUESS THIS IS WHY, MR WALSH, AND HIS GANG ARE SO RELUCTANT TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS THAT ARE PUT TO THEM REGARDING THIS MATTER. MAYBE IT’S THE MINISTER WHO SHOULD BE INFORMED OF THIS PRACTICE NOW, AS THESE PEOPLE SEEM TO THINK THEY ARE ABOVE THE LAW.
I WOULD NOT TRUST ANYONE IN (ROP) TO TAKE MY DETAILS FROM THEIR DATABANK. YOU WILL NEVER KNOW IF THIS HAS BEEN DONE. THEY CLAIM CONFIDENTIALITY WHEN YOU ASK QUESTIONS. HOW VERY APT, NOT TO REVEAL ANYTHING.
AFTER THE WAY THEY CONCOCTED THOSE SCAM ELECTIONS PRIOR TO THEM BEING ELECTED, THERE IS (NO WAY) ON THIS EARTH I WOULD HAVE THE SLIGHTEST BIT OF FAITH IN ANYONE IN THAT PLACE, NO WAY WHATSOEVER.
THEY TALK ABOUT TRUST, THEY ARE HAVING A LAUGH. THEY CANT, AND WONT ANSWER A SINGLE QUESTION THAT’S PUT TO THEM, I GUESS THEY KNOW DAMNED WELL IF THEY DID, THEY WOULD INCRIMINATE THEMSELVES.
(ROP) ARE OFFERING NOTHING THAT IS NOT ALREADY AVAILABLE TO YOU OR ME, OR ANYONE ELSE FOR THAT MATTER. ALL THEY ARE DOING IS REFERRING PEOPLE HERE AND THERE, WHICH THESE PEOPLE CAN DO THEMSELVES.
THE FUNDING THEY RECEIVE IS INDEED A MYSTERY, AND ALWAYS HAS BEEN. WHERE IS IT SPENT, NOT ON SURVIVORS I BET. THEY ARE ALL JUMPING ON THE GRAVY TRAIN, OR SO IT SEEMS. MORE OFFICES, MEANS MORE FUNDING. WE DO NOT NEED MORE OFFICES, AS MR WALSH HIMSELF STATES, HE HOPES TO COMMUNICATE WITH SURVIVORS THROUGH HIS WEB SITE, IN THAT CASE, (WHY) DOES HE NEED MORE OFFICES? FOR WHAT?
BUT THEN AGAIN, AS PER NORMAL, MR WALSH WONT ANSWER THAT QUESTION EITHER, OH NO, WE DONT LIKE PEOPLE THAT ASK QUESTIONS NOW, (DO WE MICHAEL)
IN THE END, I PERSONALLY THINK, ALL GROUPS SHOULD BE DISBANDED, AND GOT RID OF. NONE OF THEM ARE OF ANY USE WHATSOEVER TO SURVIVORS. SURVIVORS WILL NEVER BENEFIT FROM THEM, AND ONLY THE PARASITES WHO RUN THESE GROUPS WILL BENEFIT OFF THE BACKS OF THESE SURVIVORS. END OF STORY.
Well since thay all know about this site why dont thay put information on here. as you might know we have our information on here. Ionly learnd of thier existance on here.How come.For 11 years we have heard rumeurs of things being done for us. Well what have thay done for you!!!.as far as the main body of survivers of industriel schools goes all it is is rumeurs.You seem to know so tell us about it .Why do i for example need these groups. i live by myself abroad. what is in it for me.id love to get an answer.
I love the way you put up your info with no responses that you received on the site (it is very sneaky)
I also see you agreed with the reasons as to why 1 director resigned (even though it has been proven you blatantly lied about speaking to him)
I also notice, that on the minutes of the meeting on Rop website, you fail to mention it said “all on floor agreed” about the way munster survivors have tried to recruit members…. In other words sending them out details that they have not requested and having their info held illegally….. Me things you have a vested interest in munster survivor group.
I also notice you failed to mention their was 50 people at the meeting Friday for ROP Waterford….
My goodness, how people put up with your rubbish is beyond me….. I have called the offices and e-mailed the site of Rop and got the answers, how about the people on this site do the same an make their own decisions instead of listening to this “mossie” fella Drabble on about incorrect things.
You are doing a super job at mid-leading people….. You clearly have a bee in you bonnet about the OLD ROP, but let it rest it has already been proven what the new ROP are doing for Survivors…..
Mosse, if Mr Walsh ,when taking over at ROPSC last year, also took over the Data base established by Noel Barry, are we to assume this is where he collected the 1,750 members he claims to represent?
Munster recently sent me paper work, which indicated that my name and details are on their Data base, BUT JUST EXACTLY WHERE DID THEY GET THIS FROM?
Last Oct / November i wrote to Mr Walsh and requested my name and details be removed from their Data base, he replied that this had been done. So just how my name can appear on this Munster Data base is indeed a mystery!
There are Survivors all over the world now, and as far as i can see, the only communication they get from these groups are paperwork soliciting their support, and offering impressive ideas of how their aims and visions will benifit Survivors, while it has become very apparent that the only folk down the last 10/12 years who have received funding and vast expenses, are the Chairpersons, committee and staff of these so called groups!
Enough is enough, Survivors would certainly give consideration to any outstanding group whose priority is fighting the Government on our current issue, The S/T Fund, and pushing for what Survivors have clearly indicated they want, which is for all Survivors, Magdalan and Bethany folk included, to be properly redressed from the Contributions the Religious made , FOR ONCE AND FOR ALL!
The Government moved heaven and earth to make the Queen and Obama welcome recently ,at much organisation and expense, so surely they have the know how and power to exercise this final detail of redressing the Thousands they so badly damaged?
If you recall me attending these meetings you talk about, you obviously were there in agreement with those people who were there, and who took over control (Illegally) I may add.
These are the people, I Totally Disagree with, and these are the people I refer to in my postings.
I sir, have no problems, whatsoever, with Survivors, and never will. We all saw how those (So Called) elections were held; we also saw that they were (NOT) conducted in a proper manner. If you did not see this, then you were one of few.
Read The God Squad Site, and you will see the numerous questions that are being asked every day. Why is there a problem with Your New Chairman, Mr Walsh, answering these questions?
All these people are Survivors also, and, Mr Walsh (CLAIMS) to represent 1,750 Survivors. Where did he get these Names? I have asked Mr Walsh, on numerous occasions this question, but never received an answer. Is this such a Secret?
Could I ask, Mr Walsh, you state in your recent (Minutes of First Meeting) “ The Leader of Munster Survivors, previously Obtained names and addresses of Members, and sent them out to Members of ROPSC. Where do you reckon Sir these names were obtained from, in your opinion?
Also, Mr Walsh, Why did you answer from a comment from the floor that, those that received Letters from Munster Survivors should write to the current MS Leader and request that their name be erased from the MS database?
Is Munster Survivors not entitled to contact Survivors, and ask for their support? At least they are asking people to join, they are not Automatically Assuming they are Members, which as far as I can see Sir, this is exactly what you are Assuming? Again Sir, do not take me up the wrong way, I am Not your Enemy, I am simply asking a question, and would like to get an answer.
Mr Chairman. You spoke of one Former member of your Board of Directors, and why he Resigned. Fair enough.
Could i now ask you Directly about the second Board member, Mr Tom Brennan, and give us all the reasons for his Resignation, (Truthfully) Please. Thank you.
We have had years of trying to be listened to all of us . these people try and pass themselves of as the ones who do things out of the kindness of thier own little hearts, but what thay do for anybody on here is a real mystery.all we read is of survivers who feel forgotten. we read in the papers of this and that but its all without us.same as when we were kids’ trust given to people to abuse as long as thay get away with it .
Michael Walsh, ROP Second chance Chairman, and Oliver Burke, Munster Chairman, were involved at one time with the original ROP when under Noel Barry, and now , after all the disruption and various allegations within the old ROP, it seems that these two are hoping to finance a cushy lifestyle for themselves , their cronies and family’s , with funding from the HSE, Religious, and Government Dept’s.
This funding , will be claimed on the strenght of names they both hold illegally, names that were once on the Data Base of the original ROP, and which they have no right or permission to now hold. As mentioned before, many of those members have resigned, and many have passed on, but it still does not , it seems, stop them from trying to solicit the support from the very folk whose names were on that old ROP Data Base.
Mosse, i also had these same differences with Rob, and that is the reason i resigned from his Shame of Ireland. I think he means well, but just does not appreciate what is taking place in the Cork area, and is possibly fooled by the fancy talk of Mr Walsh and his Son.
While their is ample evidense of these so called group leaders creating a well financed future for themselves, just exactly where have you or anyone else reading posts here, or anywhere else,actually seen evidense or proof , from Survivors who in fact were helped or assisted in any way by these groups?
The entire business disgusts me, as from where im standing , it seems that some former Survivors are doing their level best to carve out a secure future for themselves, at the cost of the Genuine Survivors they claim to represent!
The sooner the HSE and various other Government Depts, decide to listen and take note of the concerns of real genuine Survivors, the better it will be. They all need to be investigated, ASAP!
I POSTED THIS COMMENT ON THE RIGHT OF PLACE SITE, THEY PROBABLY WONT POST IT, AS THEY ALL SEEM TO BE BIAS ON THAT SITE, SO I WILL POST IT ON PADDY’S SITE, AS I KNOW IT IS A SITE WHERE ALL SURVIVORS ARE GIVEN A CHANCE TO AIR THEIR OPINIONS.
ROBERT, I SUGGEST YOU FIND OUT THE FACTS BEFORE YOU COMMENT ON THESE MATTERS.
I AM NOT TRYING TO DISRUPT ANYONE. IF YOU SAW THE WAY THESE SO CALLED LEADERS NOW EMBEDDED IN LOWER GLANMIRE ROAD, ( RIGHT OF PLACE) GOT INTO THE POSITIONS THEY NOW OCCUPY, YOU WOULD NOT BE SINGING THEIR PRAISES.
THEY BULLIED THEIR WAY IN THERE, WITH A (SO CALLED BARRISTER) NOT THAT I WOULD CALL HIM A BARRISTER.
YOU SHOULD ALSO REMEMBER ROBERT, YOU ARE NOT A SURVIVOR, YOU SEEM TO WANT TO MAKE A NAME FOR YOURSELF PROMOTING DIFFERENT CAUSES. I SUGGEST SIR, YOU STICK TO THOSE OTHER CAUSES, AND MIND YOUR OWN BUSINESS CONCERNING SURVIVORS.
YOU DONT KNOW, AND HAVE NO IDEA, WHY I ATTACK THESE PEOPLE. I AM NOT ATTACKING SURVIVORS, I AM ATTACKING THESE NEW, (SO CALLED) LEADERS WHO BULLIED THEIR WAY INTO (RIGHT OF PLACE) AND SAY THEY ARE THERE TO HELP SURVIVORS, WHEN ALL THEY WANT TO DO IS CLAIM EXPENSES, AND LINE THEIR POCKETS AT SURVIVORS EXPENSE.
That would be very helpful Mammy 2,7 It would do no harm, and add to the vast amount of letters, and emails Mr Kenny has been sent regarding these groups and the funding they are receiving illegally, as it is well known that they do not have the membership they claim to have!
This new latest group Munster, claim on their Facebook profile, that they are going to fight to get the Government to abandon the S/T/ Fund, yet in the paperwork they sent to me and other friends abroad in Canada and the USA , they say they are not looking for donations, as they intend to secure that from the HSE AND RELIGIOUS.
This clearly shows that that they hope to achieve the same status as Mr Walshs ROP SECOND CHANCE , which if successful, will mean two groups in the Cork area will be taken care of financially. And all at the expense of the ficticious membership they use!
Ask yourselves this question, if these groups really had this membership that they claim for, Why would they need to solicit support from my friends and i? And invite us to become members!
They were only able to send us all their bulls*** leaflets , because they had illegally high jacked our names ,and details, from another source, which in effect is a breach of Data Protection !
However these matters have been referred to the HSE,Data Commissioner, and various Government Depts! For investigation.
It seem’s Enda Kenny might be related to my family so I must make sure the word get’s to him about the Corupt Con Merchants who call themselves group leaders ,They are totally Mad .
You know jimmy. many of us wouldnt even know of the existence of these groups if it wasent for this site . i get all my information on here and i am sure that thats true for many of us. its horrable to know that we are being used by these people.Our human rights are being walked over again and again.
Paulene, it is not only the group, rop second chance, who got themselves established by taking over the data base of the original ROP,in order to rake in the funding from the HSE, now it seems that this other new outfit,Munster, are going the same route, armed with names ,addresses, and details they are absolutly not entitled to, as they were acquired illegally. But little do they know, they have shot themselves in the foot, the HSE, the DATA PROTECTION COMMISSIONER, the MEDIA, are being alerted to these breachs, and the situation. I in have friends the States,and Canada who are aware, and i would strongly advise Survivors to decline from giving any support to these so called group’s, they are only out to feather their own nests, and dont give two hoots about genuine Survivors. Just how the hell can they claim to provide loads of support, services, and help, when they dont even have a Membership, ? except what they have illegally obtained!
Jimmy
When are these groups going to stop. the survivers might smell of money but its only thier own interests that the others rob the state.we have been used as money spinners from the day we were condemed.we dont have a say in things in case we interfere.
A new group are emerging in Cork, calling itself MUNSTER SURVIVORS SUPPORT SERVICES. They seem to be a CLONE of ROP SECOND CHANCE. They boast the same promise’s and amazing thing’s they are going to do for Survivor’s, as uttered by ROP.
Seem’s they have somehow got their hand’s on a data base, and are currently busy in soliciting support from Survivor’s who just happen to have their name’s and detail’s on this mysterious data base, and their paperwork indicate’s they will not require any donation’s , as all funding will be achieved once they swell their membership list. No doubt this will involve the HSE and the Religious.
Since they have acquired their data base illegally, they surely are starting on the wrong foot, in contacting folk whose name’s and detail’s they hold, without their permission, and are obviously guilty of breaching the data protection act, in doing so!
Catherine. The Government are Not listening to The Survivors, they never were, and most likely never will. Who they are listening to are The Groups, like (Right of Place) and their equals, and No One Else. FACT.
How many more times have we to say disband all groups, will the GOVERNMENT in Ireland ever listen or pay attention to what we are saying.Thank you Paddy for all the information great website.
He won’t be able to answer that question without consulting his Legal Advisor. Because he may Incriminate himself. Isn’t that right Michael. That lady is correct. You Are All a shower of Con Artists. And that is for sure.
As far as i can understand. we are supposed to believe that people who we dont know and whose names seem to be listed by these groups’somehow deserve the help promised to the survivers of industriel schools.By questioning this it makes us out as baddies.But who gave them the right to decide. apparently the newspapers.
This is a recent submission by Tom Wall, Member of (Right of Place) New Board of Directors.
# tom wall (glin) — 2011-06-05 21:17
i can thrutfully say since the new board of directors has taken over the running of right of place a lot of progress has been made in that short time.i believe this new remodeling of r.o.p.s.c.will b of great help to surivours,they can now call into any of the four offices and look for the help they need and support, the new offices at limerick galway and waterford are very beneficial towards surivours and they will recieve profesional help and advice which they rightly deserve. Now that the new services are in place it is now up to surivours to assist and make use of these facilities, best wishes to this organisation going forword.tom wall,(glin).
I would like to ask Mr Wall a few questions, if he would not mind answering please.
1. I would like to ask Mr Wall, who has been a Member of (The Alliance Group) for a number of years, and Tom Hayes’s Right Hand Man, Why is he on the Board of Directors, of (Right of Place)?
2. The Governance policy of (Right of Place) is that, (You can only be a member of one group.)
3. I wonder, which one he will opt to stay with, when, The Board of Directors, find out that he has a “Big Foot” in both organizations.
4. Which group pays him the most? Which one will he remain Faithful to?
The Suspense is, killing the Survivors.
They, (The Survivors) can’t get elected to one Board of Directors, never mind two.
I HAVE DECIDED TO PUT UP A FEW FAQ’s FROM (RIGHT OF PLACE) WEBSITE. AND MY REPLIES ARE UNDERLINED. I DO THIS, SIMPLY BECAUSE IF I PUT THESE QUESTIONS TO (RIGHT OF PLACE) ALL I WILL GET IS SILENCE, AND MY QUESTIONS WILL BE IGNORED, AS USUAL.
Are Board Members of Right Of Place Second Chance (ROPSC) paid?
Any member of the Board of Right of Place Second Chance are not paid for the work that they do. It is all done voluntary.
WHAT ABOUT THE EXPENSES YOU CLAIM FOR THESE SO CALLED MEETINGS THAT YOU DON’T SEEM TO ATTEND? I HEAR THE RATE IS APPROX €225 PER TRIP. NICE MONEY FOR DOING NOTHING.
How will I know what Right Of Place Second Chance are saying on my behalf?
The reason for the development of this website was to allow our member base to 1) Interact with each other and 2) To view any minutes from meetings or information that we send. We hope to be as open and as transparent as we possibly can be and as a result any information that we send out will be posted on this website for every member to view and to comment on.
HOW CAN SURVIVORS VIEW MINUTES OF YOUR MEETINGS, WHEN YOU DON’T HAVE MEETINGS, PLEASE EXPLAIN.
Will any decision on anything be made without my say?
No we hope to speak to our Member base through the forum on this website, amongst others, to ensure that we are truly speaking on behalf of our members.
REMEMBER – No decision will be made without our Members approval first.
AGAIN, HOW CAN YOU SPEAK TO YOUR (SO CALLED MEMBERS) THROUGH THIS FORUM? HOW MANY SURVIVORS DO NOT HAVE A COMPUTER TO ACCESS THIS INFORMATION? AND WHAT’S MORE HOW MANY SURVIVORS GAVE YOU AUTHORITY TO SPEAK FOR THEM?
Can A Survivor attend Right Of Place Meetings?
We do not claim to represent every Survivor of Institutional Abuse, only our members. As such only members of Right Of Place Second Chance and their families can attend meetings.
YOU CLAIM TO REPRESENT (1,750) SURVIVORS, COULD YOU PLEASE TELL EVERYONE WHERE YOU GOT THESE MEMBERS FROM? THIS IS NOT AN UNREASONABLE REQUEST.
Can I Leave comments without Registering on this Website?
You can leave comments on each individual news Item without registering to the website. You can also view the Forum and the discussions, however to leave a comment in the Forum you will have to register a Username and Password.
I HAVE DONE THIS ON NUMEROUS OCCASIONS, ONLY ONCE AGAIN MY COMMENTS WERE NOT PUBLISHED. WHY, YOU MAY WELL ASK, IT’S BECAUSE I WAS ASKING QUESTIONS THAT (RIGHT OF PLACE) DID NOT WANT TO ANSWER. WHENEVER YOU ASK AN IMPORTANT QUESTION TO THESE PEOPLE, YOU WILL NOT GET AN ANSWER.
WHO IS THIS PROFESSIONAL TEAM YOU SAY YOU HAVE TO SPEAK TO SURVIVORS IN (RIGHT OF PLACE)? THERE IS NO ONE IN YOUR OFFICES PROFESSIONAL IN ANYTHING, LEAST OF ALL YOU MR WALSH. ALL YOU ARE IN THERE IS MEERLY A REFERRAL SERVICE, AND NOTHING MORE. AND THAT SIR, IS A FACT.
A SOLICITOR who received cheques totalling €35,000 in relation to a sexual abuse settlement allegedly told the victim he would only get around €5,000, the High Court heard.
Denis McMahon, a partner in McMahon O’Brien solicitors, is facing charges of misconduct by failing to lodge the settlement cheque for €25,000 plus another for €10,000 related to the legal costs of the case.
The client had sued a religious institution over abuse when he was a child.
High Court president Mr Justice Nicholas Kearns yesterday granted orders that Mr McMahon deliver up two cheques in relation to a settlement, as well as the client’s file.
He said while it was important to point out that the court had only heard one side of the story, he considered it to be a grave matter.
Yesterday morning, the Law Society brought an application to the court to ensure it could obtain the client’s file and the two cheques immediately.
The judge adjourned the matter to next Thursday after Mr McMahon finally brought the file to court.
Mr McMahon has also been summoned to appear before the Law Society.
HI PAULINE, THEY CANNOT USE YOUR NAME FOR MEMBERSHIP, IF YOU HAVE WRITTEN TO (RIGHT OF PLACE) IN LOWER GLANMIRE ROAD, AND INSISTED YOUR DETAILS BE REMOVED FROM THEIR DATABASE, YOU SHOULD ALSO INSIST MR WALSH, THE (SO CALLED CHAIRMAN) ISSUES YOU WITH A LETTER, SIGNED BY HIM PERSONALLY,STATING, THAT YOUR DETAILS, AND NAME ARE COMPLETELY REMOVED.
I PERSONALLY, WOULD NOT TRUST ANYONE IN (RIGHT OF PLACE) NO ONE AT ALL. INSIST ON A LETTER FROM HIM PERSONALLY.
THERE ARE HUNDREDS OF SURVIVORS PAULINE, JUST LIKE YOU, WHO DONT KNOW THAT THEIR NAMES ARE ON THAT (ILLEGAL) DATABASE (RIGHT OF PLACE) HOLDS.
THIS IS WHERE THEY ARE GETTING THEIR FUNDING FROM, AND YES, IT IS TOTALLY ILLEGAL FOR ANYONE TO HAVE YOUR NAME AND DETAILS ON A DATABASE, WITHOUT YOUR AUTHORIZATION.
ONCE AGAIN PAULINE, DO NOT, I REPEAT, DO NOT, TRUST ANYONE CONNECTED TO THAT (ILLEGAL) GROUP 9RIGHT OF PLACE) THEY ARE THERE FOR THEIR OWN GRATIFICATION, AND NOTHING ELSE. FACT.
Are you sure that if we log in on his site that we wont be considered members. i have tried to have my name returned to me from other groups but i have never been sure of it being done.Its bad enough knowing that i might be a member without even knowing it. i dont want to fall into any more traps.
FOR ANY SURVIVOR WHO WOULD LIKE TO LEAVE A COMMENT, AND DIRECT IT TO (RIGHT OF PLACE) ALL YOU NEED TO DO IS LOG ONTO THEIR WEB SITE, THAT SEEMS TO BE BIAS TOWARDS SURVIVORS WHO DARE TO QUESTION THEIR ANTICS.
I HAVE LEFT NUMEROUS COMMENTS ON THIS SITE, ONLY TO BE IGNORED ON MOST OCCASIONS, THIS IS WHAT YOU GET FROM THESE PEOPLE, WHEN THEY HEAR THINGS THEY DONT WANT TO HEAR, AND DONT WANT TO ANSWER. THEY HAVE A GREAT WAY OF PRAISING THEMSELVES, FOR DOING NOTHING.
ADD YOUR COMMENTS, AND LET THEM KNOW EXACTLY WHAT YOU THINK OF THEM. THEIR SITE IS, (RIGHT OF PLACE SECOND CHANCE)
I DO HOPE YOU WILL HAVE BETTER LUCK THAN I HAD, THEY WILL NEVER BE A PATCH ON PADDY’S SITE, AND THATS FOR SURE. GOOD LUCK, YOU WILL NEED IT.
Pauline ,we should’nt even have to ask many MANY times on this site WHO the likes of MR Walsh Or Buckley think they are (I know who she is as I was also in Goldenbridge and I can tell you she had far more privilages with the Nun’s than the rest of us ,WHAT HAVE THOSE GROUPS DONE WITH THE HUGE FUNDING they have been claiming in survivors names for many years and continue to claim while having done NOTHING for the real survivors they CLAIM??/ TO REPRESENT (BIG QUESTION) They Refuse to give the names of survivors they say that are on their Books ?or allow their Books to be inspected to show what they spent every EURO on ,that they claim massive funding for ,they have continued to Refuse to answer AND DISREGARD ANY QUESTION’S PUT TO THEM or communiciate in any way their silence is DEAFENING, the only way survivors can communiciate with any of those groups that is if they (so called group leaders)read posts on this or Shameofireland sites.their has been NO other way of getting any Information except on Paddydoyle.com or Shameofireland site run by Robert Northall >That we are very grateful for. As for Irish Centers in the UK who claim funding in survivors name ,that might be ok if the survivor lives near the centres which I am sure most DON’T.who in our state of health and age want’s (Or could) get on a Aircraft fly all the way to some centre in the UK or Ireland have a cup of tea leave your name and have to struggle all the way back to the Airport or Train Station for the long journey home having heard nothing new that is to REALLY BENEFIT SURVIVORS,ALL SURVIVORS MUST BE COMPANSATED TO EACH INDIVIDUAL SURVIVOR, Those Groups are just an umberella for the GOVERNMENT and CATHOLIC CHURCH TO HIDE UNDER.
The forgotten survivors have been very convenient (WORD’s) for those WHO ANOINT THEMSELVES AS GROUP lEADERS, to take advantage of ,If The survivors are FORGOTTEN ,that means they are in the past noone know’s who they are ,where they are ,they could be Dead, or Lond Dead,or living in some far off country’s ,never having talked about their brutal childhood’s not even to their families, Noone has heard of them, So how on earth are those so called groups claiming to represent them????is completely dishonist and criminal in order that they continue blasting off about how much they care for survivors never mind how much they represent the FORGOTTEN they have only TWO word’s in mind ,CONTROL ,and FUNDING,> control Is POWER OVER, RESTRAINING, EXERCISE OVER, In other words BULLYING.
You never said a Truer word Mamma2,7. That is a mild word for those Parasites who live off the Misery of Survivors. Dont worry, their day will come, that you can be sure of.
So much for the new web site of Right of place. They will only put up an item, if its praising them. They are being Selective. Not like Paddy’s site, where both views are Portrayed.
If you dont put the articles on your site lads, we will put them up here. You have no Members, and we all know it Mr Walsh. We are contacting the necessary people at present, so dont you all think you are home and free, because you are not.
We will keep on no matter how long it takes. I will not tire, and dont you forget that.
If someone from mr walshs group could let us know how things really are it would help . not a family member then it would enable us to understand why thay exist. as things are some people seem very upset and betrayed. For the ones who do seem to be your members it would be fair to explain why the people who pay tax are fundiing you.as it is well its you blowing your own horn.
Edna Kenny please see to it that all those Groups are closed down,No more funding for any of them ,and use the Money to compansate each one of us survivors of the Industrial Schools,depending on how many years we had to suffer in those places also which years we were detained. I also wish to ask Mr Walsh how exactly is he connected to Buckley,and Mr Treanor,????????you are all Crooks
mr walsh would you answer the questions put to you .all you do is confuse the situation by your excuses, call a meeting chaired by you and (not your smooth talking liar treanor) then you will know how most of the survivers (note i said survivers not members of your elete clan and families)stand up and be a man and call a meeting
Reply from Mr Walsh, Chairman? of Right of Place Second Chance Ltd. Received today 29th of May, 2011.
(http://)Hi mh1
You ask a number of questions, but they are muddled-up, or as best confused! So it is difficult… no, quiet impossible for me to answer them. For example you begin….
"Michael could you please tell me where is the constitution, that gives the membership that (Right of Place) are claiming funds for, as the membership have (no say)whatsoever….."
I really cannot make any sense of the above question, or is it a statement? Mr Maurice Heafey (mh1)
(1) You are mixing up the company directors as being the total membership of Right of Place. This is obviously not the case. The directors are elected by the membershp to represent their views at the hightest level.
(2) The directors are volunteers who do not get paid, and who are all survivors.
(3) The directors employ survivors, dependants and professionals to work on behalf of survivors providing
* Home visitation (outreach)
* Help in accessing housing
* Health (mental and other)
* Social/recretation neworking/activities
* And much more
But you are very much aware of these activities Mr Heaphy, and the good work survivors do on behalf of one another, but you still persist in insulting both survivors and non survivors alike, being negative and generally giving out incorrect information.
I note in your comments that you get more insulting as you write, and more irrational which makes it very difficult for me to take you seriously. For example you say…
" You as chairman of that company (now)are a bigger dictator that Mr Noel C Barry ever was. At least he had the balls to meet the the membership,he pretended to represent…/quote]
Er….explain to me one thing. How could Mr Barry meet a pretend membership? Surely if it is a pretend membership then it does not exist.??? So how could he meet them!
Do I need say any more! Mr M Heaphy go back to the negative people whose views you represent and if you do engage in criticism, at least let it be constructive criticism so that we all can learn something from it. The days of slagging off survivors and people who help survivors are things of the past. Move forward for God’s sake.
Now, I don’t intend to waste any more energy replying to derogatroy and irrational comments. This organisation is about moving forward and placing the case of survivors first in all areas that will improve our lives. Nothing more, nothing less.
—–
Do not answer to this e-mail notification as it is a generated e-mail.
I will try to keep my questions simple to prevent you from getting confused, and muddled up.
Question one:-
Within the Articles of Memorandum and Articles of Association for the private limited company ‘Right of Place Second Chance’;
Can the survivors, who are not listed on the Board of Directors, or who are not Subscribers to that Private Limited Company, Call meetings ?
Question Two:
Again keeping it simple.
Can the survivors who are not listed in the Articles of Memorandum and the Articles of Association of the Private limited company “ Right of Place Second Chance Ltd’ :
Can they call a ‘General Meeting’ or even an ‘Extra Ordinary General Meeting’ ??
I will be so bold as to answer the questions for you, just in case you don’t know.
The answer is obviously a resounding NO.
Survivors were led to believe they were joining an organization that supports Democracy, and would be run by Survivors, for the benefit of Survivors.
Sadly they have been fooled in supporting a Private Limited Company, set up, for the financial benefit of the Directors Only, and those they wish to employ. ( Hence nepotism and cronyism )
Without a written, “Democratically Voted Upon Constitution” to protect the members ; those who are “outside” your Private Limited Company do not have a voice.
Once again DECISIONS are being made about us, Without us.
Be Honorable Mr. Walsh, Chairperson: call a General Meeting of all survivors who believe they are members of an organization run by Survivors for the benefit of Survivors and give them a Constitution they can believe in. This would put an end to this once and for all.
If necessarily , I will help you to write it.
I note that you did not answer the question regarding the Attendance for the Meetings held in Galway, and Limerick, which i believe were a total Flop. We would all like to know what the Attendance was. We know that a very very tiny number of people were in Attendance. We also know why?
The Private Limited Company, ‘Right of Place Buildings Project Limited’ that has subsequently been renamed ‘ROPSC, Ltd,’ has to be answerable to Survivors for the enormous unaccountable funds, as reported in the Examiner.
You as Chairman of that Company now, took on the responsibility of accountability, whether you know it or not.
You had a Golden opportunity to set the highest standard of Governance, and yet you choose NOT to support your Treasurer and Secretary when they demanded accountability. This is the sole reason these people resigned, and Not for the reasons, stated by you. We have that from these people, themselves. So please Mr Walsh, don’t tell the Survivors Lies.
How can you now pretend to be representing the interests of Survivors, and ask for their support, when you are only in it for the money. You don’t get paid but, your Son is drawing a Hefty wage on your behest, topped up by your own expenses.
It is also obvious from your response, that you do not understand ‘Plain speak’ , and yes! the truth hurts. You do not have the integrity to continue as Chairman. I hope this sentence is devoid of vulgarity and do take it seriously.
The above criticism was not meant to be constructive but, it represents the opinions of hundreds of Survivors who have deserted the organization since you took over as Chairman.
I, Mr Walsh, am insulting no one, least of all Survivors, but i will not stand by and let you, or anyone else for that matter, try and pull the wool over Vunerable Survivors, with your fancy talk, and words. Because you are not fooling me.
You still have not answered my question regarding the names, and other information, you hold on this Database, which (Supposedly) hold the Membership you say you represent.
I will ask you again Sir, is this the same Database that the last Chairman of ROP used? Now this is a very simple question to answer. All you have to do is answer, Yes or No.
You cannot claim to represent (1,750) Survivors that you have never met. And you still have not indicated when you will hold your first meeting?
Could you tell the Survivors also Mr Walsh (why) when a Member of ROP travelled to the meeting in Kerry recently, Chaired by Mr Francis Treanor, the said Member was refused entry? This Member Sir, is one of the Survivors, who your Company, (Right of Place Second Chance Ltd,) claims funds for, from the HSE. I cannot for the life of me understand that.
If i Sir, as you so put it, am (Giving out the wrong information), i would ask you; as i am sick and tired of doing; to correct me, by (Rectifying my mistakes) and giving us all the Correct information. You Sir, is the one omitting the Wrong Information, and most of the time, giving none.
All you do is criticise me for asking questions that you do NOT want to answer.
I Sir, am finding it Totally Impossible to take you seriously, Mr Walsh. You are supposed to be the (Chairman of Right of place Second Chance Ltd) but Mr Francis Treanor, (A Barrister) goes around the country holding meetings in Galway, and Limerick. I am led to ask myself this question Sir. ( Who is actually running this Company? ) Is it you, Mr Walsh, or Mr Francis Treanor? This not a very Difficult question to answer Sir, ( IS IT?
I see also, we still have no Committee in any of the regions? Why i ask? Maybe you don’t want to have to answer them either? Quite posssibly.
I will explain your query also, regarding Mr Barry, and his Pretend Membership, as you put it.
You are correct in asking, If it is a Pretend Membership, then how can it exist, here is how.
Whatever way Mr Barry obtained the names of Survivors he held on this Controversial Database, is first and foremost very questionable.
We all know he held meetings from time to time in different places around the country, and also in Great Britain, and most probably may have got his Database together by getting those attending these meetings to sign their names and addresses on a Sheet of paper before entering the meeting. It is indeed one way of doing this, without rising suspicion.
This however, would (NOT) give him, and does (NOT) give him, the right to use these names, and data, to concoct a Database for his Company, and use same to go to the HSE, and VEC, to secure funding for these (So Called) Survivors he represents.
These Survivors were never represented, and as far as i can see, they never will be. As Mr Treanor so put it before. (WE ARE A NON ENTITY, WE HAVE NO RIGHTS PER SAY ) Which simply means basically, (WE DON’T MATTER) And we never will.
This is why i am questioning the Legality of that so called (DATABASE) ROP holds.
Meet the Survivors Sir, you claim to represent, and are getting Funding to help, and let them ask you the questions i am asking, and Stop Hiding. Come Clean, or is this too much to ask?
I will not finish in the same Dictatorial manner you did Mr Walsh but, I wish you well in whatever difficult decisions you have to make in the very near future. RESIGN.
Thank you for your kind attention in listening to the very serious concerns from Survivors, and for posting on the website what could be construed as a controversial but honest viewpoint.
It takes b…s ( anatomical parts ) to do so.
Mosse, thank you for the information update about ROP meetings, attendance ,etc. I suggest you relate all this to the Examiner, who will hopefully see the need for a thorough investigation of this outfit, who are, (if your fact’s are correct,) committing a crime in claiming funding for a membership they dont actually have!
I firmly beleive the Media are the best chance we have of addressing the situation with these so called group’s, they have the mean’s to expose them, and perhap’s get the HSE to stop dishing out money to them, while they make such an investigation, and get all the true fact’s.
It is very apparent that many of these group’s are enjoying the funding they receive, ALL off the back’s of the member’s they claim to represent, but what is not , and never has been, apparent, is evidence from any Survivor who has been helped by these so called group’s!
Well you know and we know that thay are having a great time being treated as VIPs. its gratifying for them but thay are doing what thay like. Because every time there has been questions from anybody thay change the subject.when i mentioned the survivers from the industriel schools it became about thier choisses as to who was to benefit from the staturary fund. the relatives and the forgotten survivers. But how the forgotten survivers got on lists there is no answer.this kind of treatment is still not aknowlaged by the media.Or a little bit . but not enough for the government to take any notice .
MOSSIE THANK YOU FOR THE ABOVE IMFORMATION
IT JUST SHOWS THE GANGSTERS WE ARE DEALING WITH.
ONCE F TRANER WAS MENTIONED IT WAS ENOUGH FOR ME
AS I REMEMBER HIM IN ACTION IN CORK WITH HIS LEGAL
JARON AND BULLYING I THOUGHT HIS WORK WAS FINISHED
WHEN THIS NEW COMMITTEE WAS IN PLACE (WORSE THAN THE LAST ONE) HE WOULD STEP DOWN WITH N BARRY AND HIS HENCHMEN, BUT SURPRISE SURPRISE I SEE HE IS BACK ON THE GRAVY TRAIN.
WE THE SURVIVERS ARE TOO QUITE WE JUST LISTEN TO WALSH AND FAMILY HIS FRIENDS AND NON SURVIVERS
WITH ALL THEIR LIES AND BULLS!!!t.
remember they are all on salaries and perks,
while members SUFFER AND DIE,
ITS TIME SOMETHING WAS DONE ABOUT THE LOT OF THEM
ONCE AND FOR ALL.
MICHAEL, COULD YOU PLEASE TELL ME, WHERE IS THE CONSTITUTION, THAT GIVES THE MEMBERSHIP THAT (RIGHT OF PLACE) ARE CLAIMING THE FUNDS FOR, AS THE MEMBERSHIP HAVE (NO SAY) WHATSOEVER?
ACCORDING TO THE COMPANY’S, ( MEMORANDUM OF ASSOCIATION) DOCUMENT, IT’ MEMBERSHIP IS COLLECTIVELY CONSISTING OF THE GRAND TOTAL OF (7) MEMBERS? BUT STATES ALSO, THE DIRECTORS, MAY FROM TIME TO TIME REGISTER AN INCREASE OF MEMBERS.
HOWEVER, AFTER GOING THROUGH THE DOCUMENT, I DO NOT SEE ANYWHERE IN THE SAID DOCUMENT, WHERE ANY MORE MEMBERS HAVE BEEN REGISTERED WITH THE COMPANY, (RIGHT OF PLACE, SECOND CHANCE LIMITED). WHICH LEAVES ME TO BELIEVE ABOVE ALL REASONABLE DOUBT, THAT THE SAID COMPANY (CANNOT) CLAIM TO REPRESENT THE (1,750) MEMBERS THEY CLAIM THEY HAVE.
ACCORDING TO THE MEMORANDUM OF ASSOCIATION, THE TOTAL MEMBERSHIP OF THE SAID COMPANY, STANDS AT THE GRAND TOTAL OF (7)
NOTHING HAS CHANGED IN THE NEWLY REGISTERED COMPANY, (RIGHT OF PLACE SECOND CHANCE).
YOU ONCE REMARKED, STATING THAT YOU HAD (NO SAY) IN THAT COMPANY, WHEN MR NOEL C BARRY WAS THE CHAIRMAN (DICTATOR) AND MAKING DECISIONS ABOUT YOU, WITHOUT YOU.
YOU, AS THE CHAIRMAN OF THAT COMPANY, (NOW) ARE A BIGGER DICTATOR THAN MR NOEL C BARRY EVER WAS. AT LEAST HE HAD THE BALLS TO MEET THE MEMBERSHIP, HE PRETENDED TO REPRESENT, WHERE AS (YOU DONT)
YOU CONTINUE TO HIDE BEHIND, MR FRANCIS TREANOR, YOUR OUTREACH CO-ORDINATOR.
RIGHT OF PLACE, IS (NOT) A GROUP FOR SURVIVORS, WORKING FOR SURVIVORS, BUT A (PRIVATE LIMITED COMPANY) EMPLOYING A SELECTED FEW SURVIVORS, AND (NON) SURVIVORS FOR THEIR BENEFIT ONLY.
YOIUR TRACK RECORD TO DATE MR WALSH REGARDING YOUR RECENT MEETINGS IN THE REGIONS ARE AS FOLLOWS, (KERRY) ATTENDANCE (8) (GALWAY) ATTENDANCE (6) (LIMERICK) LESS THAN BOTH KERRY, & LIMERICK COMBINED. (CORK) (0)
AT THIS RATE, THE HSE ARE SUPPORTING AN OVERALL (SUPPOSED MEMBERSHIP) OF LESS THAN(14)
AND I HAVE IT FROM A VERY RELIABLE CONTACT, THAT IN ALL (3) MEETINGS HELD BY MR FRANCIS TREANOR, (AND NOT BY YOU) FOR SOME STRANGE REASON THAT, MOST OF THOSE SURVIVORS THAT ATTENDED THOSE MEETINGS, LITERALLY WALKED OUT IN TOTAL DISGUST. PLEASE EXPLAIN?
UN committee urges state to set up Magdalene probe
By Jennifer Hough
TUESDAY, MAY 24, 2011
A UN committee urged the Government to set up an independent investigation into human rights violations in the Magdalene Laundries and give redress to the women who suffered because of the institutions.
The United Nations Committee Against Torture (UNCAT) said the women should be given an apology as an acknowledgement of what happened so they could “get their dignity back”.
Members of UNCAT yesterday asked government representatives in Geneva about its intentions to investigate the Magdalene laundries abuse promptly, impartially and comprehensively, in accordance with its obligations under Articles 12 and 13 of the convention against torture and other cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment.
The committee also requested information from the state as to how it will ensure redress and compensation for the women who suffered in the laundries, in line with its obligation under Article 14 of the convention.
Justice for Magdalenes (JFM), the survivor advocacy group, calling on the Irish Government to act immediately and initiate an independent investigation into human rights violations suffered by the women.
JFM spokeswoman, Claire McGettrick, said the state could fulfil its responsibilities by obtaining reparations from the Catholic Church for its part in the women’s abuse. She said the majority of survivors are elderly, and adversarial models of inquiry and redress would have the opposite effect of adding to their pain and sense of injustice.
Maeve O’Rourke, who presented JFM’s submission to the committee, said UNCAT, along with the Irish Human Rights Commission, had taken an extremely serious view of the abuse of women and girls in the Magdalene Laundries and the state’s responsibility for it.
“Yesterday’s comments by the committee members unequivocally recognise the rights of the women who are still alive to an investigation, an apology, redress and treatment with dignity.”
Meanwhile, a delegation from the Bethany Home survivors group will today meet Education Minister Ruairi Quinn at Leinster House
Derek Leinster, chairman of the group, said he was very grateful to the minister for agreeing to meet with them. The delegation will put its case to the minister in the hope that the Bethany Home is included in the Redress scheme, which awards compensation to victims of institutional abuse.
Last year unmarked graves of 219 Bethany children who died between 1922-49, were discovered in Mount Jerome Cemetery, Dublin 8, by Bethany researcher Niall Meehan.
This appeared in the printed version of the Irish Examiner Tuesday, May 24, 2011
Ps , why does he call his website >one in 4??is that he believes only one in fore was abused that say they were?? just wondered , whatever compansation or benefits he recieved for his sexual abuse >those survivors like Paddy and others who were forced as babies ,young children to live their childhoods with the Sadists is a totally different thing the government should have no hesitation in making sure we are compansated properly one thousand time more than he got.The Statuary Fund must be giving to the Survivors of Industrial Schools.that is what it was for in the first place, every one of those Groups is jumping on the bandwagen.They have been Useless and a waste of the real survivors rightful compansation .
Mr O’ Gorman is NOT a survivor , He was not in an Industrial Reformatory as a baby or young child ,his case is totally different , Survivors of Industrial Reformatories were Condemed and sentenced to spend the whole or most of our childhoods in Reformatories where we were forced to live 24 hours a day for all our childhoods or mose with The the Sadistic Abusers.and Must be Compansated for that brutiality. most of us live in different countries all over the World Not just in Ireland or the uk ,many have died already So the Statuary Fund will be of NO benifit as most of us who are still alive have NOT had any help so far 2011 nor any Information from those so called services or useless Groups in all the years they have been claiming funding in our name to keep their business’s going only for their own benifit Ie their Fat Bank accounts.We want to be Compansated individually for the suffering and loss we were forced to suffer which has effected our lives. those so called services and groups have been a Total Waste of Money .
Why are the Clergy going to this meeting since its about the needs of thier victims. if thay knew or cared we would have known by now .The needs of most people from the instutions are very easy to understand. thay could try respect for a start and stop all the empty promesses.Idont know mr o garmon. was he in an instution when he was abused. Mossie thanks a lot for sharing your information. i hope no one minds me asking about mr gormon. if so excuse me .
O’Gorman to address top clerics in Rome on abuse
By Claire O’Sullivan
FRIDAY, MAY 20, 2011
ONE of this country’s most vocal abuse victims has been invited to Rome to address some of the world’s top archbishops and bishops on how best to respond to victims of clerical abuse.
Colm O’Gorman, who was abused by Fr Sean Fortune in the diocese of Ferns in the 1980s, is the first survivor to have received an invitation specifically to discuss the Church’s response to such complaints.
It’s understood that more than 100 clerical and lay representatives working in the field of child protection will attend the Anglophone Conference in Rome this summer.
Last year’s Anglophone Conference was scheduled to take place in Athlone but was cancelled and transferred to Paisley in Scotland.
Dublin Archdiocese Auxiliary Bishop Eamon Walsh will also attend as will the director of Child Protection and Safeguarding, Andrew Fagan. It’s believed six clergy and lay people will represent Ireland.
Yesterday, Mr O’Gorman, who was speaking in a personal capacity, said his speech to the conference will address “effective listening, the experience of those who have been abused by priests and their bad experiences with the Church’s response”.
“There are challenging things that need to be said. I value frank engagement and I expect the church leaders will question me so that we have a frank upright conversation. Often with church leaders, you find a strong sense of concern but that does not necessarily lead to meaningful engagement thereafter,” he said.
Last year, Mr O’Gorman was one of a number of survivors who met American Cardinal Sean O’Malley as part of Pope Benedict’s Apostolic Visitation to this country.
This appeared in the printed version of the Irish Examiner Friday, May 20, 2011
Magdalene case goes to UN
By Claire O’Sullivan
FRIDAY, MAY 20, 2011
THE advocacy group seeking justice for women kept at Magdalene laundries will today take their campaign to the United Nations Committee Against Torture.
Earlier this week, Minister for Justice Alan Shatter told the Dáil that his department has prepared a draft submission for the Government on the Magdalene laundries and he intends bringing it to Cabinet in early June at the latest. The HSE has also drawn up a report on the laundries for the minister’s consideration.
“I expect to be in a position to make certain announcements after my colleagues in Government have had an opportunity to consider the matter. I hope matters will be advanced in a positive and helpful way as a consequence of the proposals that will be brought forward,” Mr Shatter said.
Maeve O’Rourke from the Justice for Magdalenes (JFM) group is due to make a verbal submission to the UN Committee Against Torture in Geneva today, where she will tell the panel that former residents still alive today, continue to suffer degrading treatment in violation of Article 16 of the UN Convention Against Torture (UNCAT).
JFM estimate that tens of thousands of women were sent to the laundries. Many of them are dead.
Ms O’Rourke will also argue, by refusing to investigate and ensure redress for survivors, the state is disregarding its obligations under UNCAT Articles 12-14.
“They have received no apology from the state, no investigation, no redress, and no compensation for their abuse. They receive no pension for their unpaid labour,” said.
Between 1922 and 1996, 10 Magdalene laundries operated here, run by four Catholic orders of nuns.
JFM is arguing the state had a role to play in the laundries as it knew children were imprisoned there and were supplying child labour. They have also shown state policy required the transfer of ‘repeat’ unmarried mothers from state-funded mother and baby homes to the unregulated laundry institutions. It has also harshly criticised the state for not forcing the religious orders to release their detailed records on Magdalene detainees.
In November 2010, the Irish Human Rights Commission said there is sufficient evidence of state responsibility for unlawful imprisonment, servitude, forced labour and cruel and degrading treatment, and called for a statutory inquiry into human rights violations at the laundries.
This appeared in the printed version of the Irish Examiner Friday, May 20, 2011
When i was a child in an instution we were told constantly about the good work of the church. but i have never seen anything done by the church that i admire. now we hear from these people that thay have taken thier place and are doing the good work. And once again its about themselves.We are told that thay are caring for the forgotten survivers.Or the ones who did not go to the redress board but who are these people.It seems that thay use thier places to include all people who were in instutions. its being turned into a charity which is gratifying for them and the governement. but the story of the slaves in industriel schools is disapering under all the rest. and its with the help of these groups
He is the ‘Area Support Co-coordinator’ in charge of the outreach workers, with the top salary.
Who are we talking about, Mr Francis Treanor.
So much for a man who said he would not have anything to do with the running of the organization as soon as the elections were finished. He is now running the whole show on the ground.
Question?
Did the Board of Directors (or the HSE) guarantee him the Top Job once the elections were finished?
The whole process of appointing the Co-coordinator and Outreach Workers for the Private Company now has to be ‘Questioned’ as to the integrity of the Board members.
The Son of the Chairman is appointed ‘”Outreach Worker” and (NOT) a Survivor.
The drinking partner of Noel C. Barry (who is NOT a survivor) get’s his daughter appointed ‘Outreach Worker’.
Edel Tracey (again NOT a Survivor) but we know the nepotism link, also gets appointed ‘Administrator’.
Now to cap it all Frances Traenor (Barrister) has the appointment of ‘Area Support Co-coordinator’.
The whole PRIVATE COMPANY of “RIGHT OF PLACE/BUILDINGS PROJECT’ “STINKS”!!!!!!!
Survivor’s needs and this privately run company will never look after the welfare of the Survivor.
They are using Company Law, to secure funding from the HSE under the guise of a ‘Survivor Group’.
Has the Barrister given up his practice to manage this private company?
Is this why he was down in Kerry last weekend?
As the Area Support Co-coordinator (as advertised in the leaflet) he is suppose to be the ‘communication channel’ to the survivors.
Obviously, he failed completely at the meeting in Kerry, where the membership walked out on him, after telling him that the private company ‘Right of Place Buildings Project’, is nothing but a joke, and are interested only in offering jobs for the boys.
The company is still registered as ‘Right of Place Buildings Project’, and THE PRIVATE COMPANY is employing whom they like.
Shame on the HSE for funding a private company who offer no support services to the Survivors and whose only interest is to secure jobs for FAMILY and FRIENDS, of the Board of Directors. SHAME ON THEM AND SHAME ON THE HSE.
Also Patrick Cleary the fellow who was the Secretary on the Board of Directors (he resigned) is now working in the Waterford branch for 10 hours a week on €110.
Obviously Michael Walsh feels sorry for him and has given him a job.
Did he resign, because, you cannot work for the company while you are a member of the board of directors?
The only thing that mr walsh appears to say is that he gives empathy to the survivers he knows. So we can suppose from that is that he has permanent contacts. But who are thay . he talks of the care he gives to the forgotten survivers. but the people who were in industriel schools are now in thier 50ths or 60ths and most have taken care of themselves. were the members of the groups in industriel schools. the only way to know is by them giving out the names and ages of the people whom thay do help . its been said why leave out people in need. well because its not charity its redress.
WELL STATED BILLY, IT SEEMS THAT MR WALSH IS INDEED A PROPER COWARD, AND NOTHING MORE, TO HAVE TREANOR GO OUT AND DO HIS DIRTY WORK FOR HIM.
YES TREANOR IS THE ( SO CALLED) BARRISTER, THE HSE SUPPOSEDLY HIRED TO SORT OUT THE NEW BOARD OF DIRECTORS. AND WE ALL SAW FIRST HAND HOW HE CONDUCTED THOSE (ILLEGAL) MEETINGS HE WENT AROUND THE COUNTRY TO CONDUCT. IT WAS NOTHING SHORT OF A FARCE.
HENCE, WE HAVE A WORSE DICTATOR IN PLACE NOW, THAN WE HAD PREVIOUSLY. SO WE CAME OUT OF THE FRYING PAN, AND INTO THE FIRE. WE ARE WORSE OFF NOW THAN WE EVER WERE.
WAS ANYONE IN KERRY THE OTHER EVENING WHEN TREANOR, AND SOME OTHERS FROM (RIGHT OF PLACE, LOWER GLANMIRE ROAD) HELD ANOTHER (ILLEGAL) MEETING? I WOULD LIKE TO HEAR WHAT THE MEETING WAS ABOUT. THOUGH I HAVE HEARD OFFHAND THAT IT WAS A COMPLETE WASTE OF TIME, AND THEY WERE HECKLED, AND THE MEETING WAS A COMPLETER WASTE OF TIME.
YES MR TREANOR, WAS THE ONE WHO WAS SUPPOSED TO STAND DOWN AFTER THE (ILLEGAL ELECTIONS) HE HELD LAST YEAR, BUT NOW IT SEEMS HE WAS LYING WHEN HE TOLD US THAT, AS HE CHAIRED A MEETING IN THE KERRY REGION LAST WEEKEND, I WONDER WHO GAVE HIM PERMISSION TO DO THAT? IT COULD ONLY HAVE COME FROM OUR SO CALLED LEADER MR WALSH, WHO OBVIOUSLY IS SCARED OUT OF HIS WITH TO HOLD ONE, BECAUSE HE KNOWS WHAT THE OUTCOME WILL BE.
WHAT HAPPENED TO THE CHAIRMAN OF THE NEW BOARD OF DIRECTORS, MR WALSH. HE DIDN’T EVEN HAVE THE GUTS, OR THE DECENCY TO CHAIR THAT MEETING HIMSELF. SOME BLOODY LEADER.
I WILL ASK YOU AGAIN MR WALSH, GET OFF YOUR BACKSIDE, AND FACE THE ( SO CALLED MEMBERSHIP) YOU PURPORT TO REPRESENT.
I SEE F TREANOR IS BACK AGAIN TO ADVISE THE WALSH
MAFIA LIKE HE DID N BARRY AND HIS HENCHMEN
REMEMBER TREANOR WAS ONE OF THE GROUP OF REPS
WHO SAT DOWN WITH BARRY BUCKLEY AND THE OTHERS
AND AGREED WITH BIFFO TO SET UP A TRUST FUND
MR FRANCIS TREANOR, (THE BARRISTER) WHO WAS TO STEP ASIDE, ONCE THE SO CALLED ELECTIONS OF THE NEW BOARD OF DIRECTORS FOR THE GROUP (RIGHT OF PLACE SECOND CHANCE) WAS FINISHED, IS NOW CHAIRING MEETINGS IN (KERRY) AND ATTENDING TO THE BUSINESS OF (RIGHT OF PLACE) IN THE CORK OFFICE, WITHOUT THE KNOWLEDGE OF THE SURVIVORS. ILLEGALLY.
A MEETING OF THE (NON EXISTING KERRY BRANCH) OF (RIGHT OF PLACE) WAS HELD IN TRALEE LAST EVENING. THE MEETING WAS CHAIRED BY (MR FRANCIS TREANOR) A NON-ELECTED MEMBER OF THE BOARD OF DIRECTORS. ALSO ON THE TOP TABLE WERE ANN MARIE CREAN, (OUTREACH OFFICER) AND (NON SURVIVOR). EDEL TREACY, WHO IS THE ELUSIVE (ANMINISTRATOR) FOR THE NEW (RIGHT OF PLACE SECOND CHANCE) WEB SITE. AGAIN, A (NON SURVIVOR)
I BELIEVE, THE TOTAL PERSONS THAT ATTENDED THE MEETING WAS (8) THOSE THAT ATTENDED, INFORMED THE TOP TABLE, THAT THE KERRY BRANCH OF (RIGHT OF PLACE SECOND CHANCE) DOES (NOT EXIST)
THERE IS (NO COMMITTEE) FOR THE CORK, AND KERRY BRANCHES, AND IT IS NOW MORE QUESTIONABLE THAN EVER, WHETHER ANY SO CALLED MEMBERS EXIST AT ALL FOR THOSE BRANCHES.
FRANCIS TREANOR, AND COMPANY, WERE ALSO INFORMED THAT THE ORGANIZATION OF (RIGHT OF PLACE SECOND CHANCE) IS NOW AN UTTER, AND TOTAL DISGRACE, AND THAT ALL SURVIVORS ARE COMPLETELY DISGUSTED WITH THE CARRY ON OF THIS MYSTERIOUS GROUP. ALSO WITH THE (NON SURVIVORS) BEING EMPLOYED BY THE COMPANY, WHO HAVE NO UNDERSTANDING, WHATSOEVER, OF THE NEEDS, OR THE WANTS, OF THE SURVIVORS.
I WOULD LIKE TO ASK MR FRANCIS TREANOR, WHO IS (NOT) ON THE BOARD OF DIRECTORS OF (RIGHT OF PLACE SECOND CHANCE) WHO GAVE HIM PERMISSION TO HOLD MEETINGS IN KERRY LAST EVENING, AS HE HAS (NO) BUSINESS WHATSOEVER, OR NO AUTHORITY, TO DO SO. PLEASE EXPLAIN SIR.
IS THE (SO CALLED) CHAIRMAN, MR MICHAEL WALSH, AND THE OTHER TWO REMAINING DIRECTORS LEFT ON THE BOARD, AFRAID TO GO OUT, AND MEET, THE (SO CALLED) MEMBERSHIP THEY CLAIM TO REPRESENT? AND ALSO AT A COST OF €192,000 FOR THE YEAR 2011 TO SUPPORT IT?
COME OUT FROM BEHIND MR TREANORS CLOAK, MICHAEL WALSH, AND MEET THE SURVIVORS, WHO YOU SAY ELECTED YOU.
YOU HAVE (NEVER) YET MET YOUR (SO CALLED MEMBERSHIP) FROM THE CORK, KERRY, LIMERICK, AND ALSO THE UK. YET YOU, AND YOUR SON CLAIM ENORMOUS SUMS OF MONEY, FROM THE HSE, AND OTHERS, IN THE NAME OF THE SURVIVORS? THIS I FIND VERY VERY STRANGE INDEED?
I WILL ASK YOU AGAIN MR WALSH, COME OUT FROM BEHIND THE TAIL OF MR FRANCIS TREANOR, AND HAVE THE COMMON DECENCY TO TACKLE THE RESPONSIBILITIES, YOU HAVE SO DECEPTIVLY OBTAINED.
WHY ARE YOU USING MR FRANCIS TREANOR, A (BARRISTER) TO DO YOUR DIRTY WORK FOR YOU? ARE YOU NOT CAPABLE OF DOING IT YOURSELF?
COME OUT (YOU COWARD) AND FACE YOU’RE (SO CALLED MEMBERSHIP) ALL SURVIVORS ARE EAGERLY WAITING TO MEET YOU.
YOUR (ILLEGAL DATABASE) THAT YOU POSSESS SIR, IS BECOMING MORE AND MORE QUESTIONABLE, DAY BY DAY, AND I THINK IT’S ABOUT TIME THE RELEVANT AUTHORITIES BE ADVISED ON IT’S WHEREABOUTS, AND HOW, AND WHAT IT IS BEING USED FOR. ALL SURVIVORS ARE FED UP TO THE HILT TRYING TO GET SOME SORT OF ACCOUNTABILITY ABOUT, YOU, AND YOUR (ILLEGAL GROUP) THAT CALL THEMSELVES, (RIGHT OF PLACE SECOND CHANCE)
THIS WHOLE SAGA SIR, IS MOST CERTAINLY NOT BASED ON (TRUTH) AS YOU HAVE HIGHLIGHTED ON YOUR WEB SITE, AND IT’S HIGH TIME IT ALL STOPPED.
HI PAULINE, YOU CAN ASK THEM ANYTHING YOU LIKE, TILL YOU ARE BLUE IN THE FACE, BUT ALL YOU WILL GET IS SILENCE. THE REASON FOR THAT IS, THEY KNOW EXACTLY THAT THEY ARE DOIND NOTHING WHATSOEVER FOR ANYONE, ONLY THEMSELVES. AND YOU MAY BE ASSURED, THEY HAVE BEEN WELL AND TRULY BRIEFED NOT TO SAY ANYTHING FOR FEAR THEY MAY INCRIMINATE THEMSELVES.
ALL THEY ARE OFFERING ON THEIR NEW WEB SITE, IS ALREADY IN PLACE, AND ANYONE CAN GET IT THROUGH THE SYSTEM. ALL OF THOSE SERVICES ARE ALREADY IN PLACE, AND THEY MOST CERTAINLY CANNOT
TAKE ANY CREDIT OF ANY KIND FOR THAT.
I AM NOT SURPRISES TO HEAR THEM TELL YOU THAT YOU ARE ENTITLED TO YOUR OPINION. HE WILL NEVER TELL YOU WHAT HE HAS DONE FOR ANYONE OF THE SURVIVORS, AND HE WILL CLAIM (CONFIDENTIALITY) THAT JUST ABOUT COVERS EVERYTHING. IN OTHER WORDS, I CANT ANSWER THAT, IT’S PRIVATE AND CONFIDENTIAL.
I CANNOT UNDERSTAND HOW HE SHOULD HAVE BEEN SHOCKED, WHEN YOU ASKED HIM TO JUSTIFY HIMSELF. WHO DOES HE THINK HE IS? IF SOMEONE IS SPEAKING ON MY BEHALF, I MOST CERTAINLY WOULD WANT TO KNOW, (WHO ASKED HIM TO DO SO)
MR WALSH HAS, (NO MANDATE WHATSOEVER) TO SPEAK FOR ANY SURVIVOR. NO ONE HAS ELECTED HIM, AND HE HAS GOT HIMSELF, AND HIS SON IN THERE BY SHEER DECEPTION, AND BULLYING.
THE REASON NO ONE HAS ANY INFORMATION IS VERY SIMPLE, THEY DONT GIVE YOU ANY. AND HE HAS SOME CHEEK TO SAY TO YOU, THAT IT’S YOUR FAULT. HOW DARE HE.
THE QUESTION IS PAULINE, WHAT HAS (RIGHT OF PLACE SECOND CHANCE) DONE FOR SURVIVORS. ANSWER, SWEET DAMN ALL. ANYTHING THEY DO IN THAT PLACE, IS DONE FOR THEMSELVES, AND NO ONE ELSE. THE SURVIVORS DONT MATTER, AND THAT HAS ALWAYS BEEN THE CASE. WHERE DID WE HEAR THIS STATEMENT FROM BEFORE?
ALSO PAULINE, NO ONE IN THOSE OFFICES IN LOWER GLANMIRE ROAD, HAVE THE QUALIFICATIONS, THE KNOW HOW, OR SKILLS, ON HOW TO DEAL WITH THE MULTIPLE PROBLEMS THE SURVIVOR HAS, AND THAT IS A FACT. THAT IS WHY MR WALSH IS NOT LISTENING TO US, AND IGNORING OUR QUESTIONS, BECAUSE HE CANNOT ANSWER THEM, END OF STORY.
I know what you mean Mossie. i asked them both on the other site. what exactly do thay offer survivers other than what is available for all the people. instead of an answer i was told that i have a right to my opinion. but as to his group no answer at all . just about the shock he felt about us asking him to justify himself. the dad and the son seem to think that if we have no information its our fault. and then i was asked what have i done for survivers. its not a vocation to centre our lives around others like us. we dont have the skills to work with damaged people.nor does mr walsh otherwise he would be listening to us instead of ignoring questions. dont forget there are also the aunts and oncles and the cousins.
HAVE BEEN READING QUITE A LOT OF COMMENTS LEFT ON PADDY’S SITE FOR THE LAST HOUR OR MORE, AND I HAVE NOTICED ONE THING.
OF ALL THE QUESTIONS THAT WERE CONTRIBUTED BY THE VARIOUS SURVIVORS, AND INCLUDING MYSELF, MR WALSH, AND HIS SON THE ( OUTREACH OFFICER) FOR THE WATERFORD REGION, HAVE NOT ANSWERED ONE OF THE QUESTIONS.
MICHEAL I WAS NOT TOO FAR OUT WHEN I SAW THROUGH YOUR LITTLE PLOY, TRYING TO PASS YOURSELF OFF AS JUST ANOTHER SURVIVOR, WHEN BEHIND IT ALL YOU WERE GIVING SUPPORT TO YOUR FATHERS POSITION. YOU CERTAINLY ARE KEEPING IT IN THE FAMILY.
I SUGGEST YOU LOOK BACK THROUGH SOME OF THE POST’S YOU PUT ON THIS SITE, AND STAND BY WHAT YOU MAKE YOURSELF OUT TO BE? YOU ARE NOT ACCOUNTING TO ANYONE BUT YOUR FATHER. WHAT HAVE YE BOTH DONE FOR ANY SURVIVOR TO DATE? NOTHING I WILL BET.
ALL I SEE, IS TOTALLY DISGRUNTLED SURVIVORS, ASKING QUESTIONS OF YOU ALL IN THAT SO CALLED (RIGHT OF PLACE) AND NO ONE GETTING ANSWERS. YOU HAVE NOT ANSWERED ANYONE. WHY?
YOU ARE OBVIOUSLY AFRAID THE SURVIVOR WILL FIND OUT THE REAL TRUTH OF WHAT ACTUALLY IS GOING ON IN THAT DISGRACED GROUP. LIKE I SAID BEFORE, WE WILL GET TO THE BOTTOM OF THIS SAGA EVENTUALLY, OF THAT YOU CAN BE ASSURED. YOU ARE NOT DOING YOURSELF ANY FAVOUR S IN KEEPING SILENT, AND IGNORING THE VALID QUESTIONS THAT ALL SURVIVORS ARE ASKING YOU.
I THINK THE NEXT MOVE NOW WILL BE TO CONTACT THE GOVERNMENT, AND TELL THEM ALL ABOUT THE CONCERNS A LOT OF SURVIVORS HAVE, AND TO QUESTION, THE VALIDITY OF THE (SO CALLED) ILLEGAL DATABASE YOUR GROUP HAVE IN YOUR POSSESSION, AND ARE CLAIMING FUNDING FROM THE HSE, AND OTHER ORGANIZATIONS.
IF YOU DONT ANSWER OUR QUESTIONS, MAYBE SOMEONE ELSE WILL. WE ALL HAVE ENOUGH OF THIS SECRECY THAT SURROUNDS THAT GROUP ( RIGHT OF PLACE, SECOND CHANCE) AND WE HAVE ENOUGH.
EVERYTHING SEEMS TO HAVE GONE VERY QUIET AT ( RIGHT OF PLACE SECOND CHANCE) I WONDER WHY?
I WOULD LIKE TO ASK MR WALSH IF HE TOLD ANYONE ABOUT HIS NEW WEB-SITE, BECAUSE IT CAME AS A SURPRISE TO ME. WE NEVER HEARD OF IT, AND I’LL BET, MOST OF YOUR (SO CALLED MEMBERSHIP) HAVE NOT HEARD OF IT EITHER. BUT THEN I AM NOT, ONE BIT SURPRIZED AT THAT.
COULD MR WALSH PLEASE TELL US ALL, WHO THIS (ELUSIVE) ADMINISTRATOR IS?? NO ONE SEEMS TO KNOW.
I ALSO NOTE, THAT UNDER THE HEADING (BENEFITS OF MEMBERSHIP) ONE OF YOUR ENTITLEMENTS AS A MEMBER, ALLOWS YOU TO, ATTEND , AND VOTE, AT THE AGM, OR REGIONAL MEETINGS. I SIMPLY CANNOT UNDERSTAND HOW THIS CAN BE DONE MR WALSH, WHEN YOU DONT EVEN HAVE A REGIONAL COMMITTEE, AS YOU NEVER ELECTED ONE.
MAYBE IT’S SO YOU WONT HAVE TO ANSWER TO ANYONE, ONLY YOURSELF, AND IT GIVES YOU A FREE HAND TO DO AS YOU SO WISH. JUST LIKE THE LAST DICTATOR WE HAD? AND LOOK WHERE THAT GOT HIM?
THIS NO DOUBT IS ANOTHER OF YOUR PLOYS TO BAFFLE THE (SO CALLED MEMBERS) YOU SUPPOSIDLY REPRESENT.
PLEASE TELL ME, OR BETTER STILL TELL YOUR ( SO CALLED MEMBERSHIP) WHEN YOU LAST HELD A REGIONAL MEETING, OR EVEN AN ANNUAL GENERAL MEETING? BET YOU CANT ANSWER THAT MR WALSH, BECAUSE WE ALL KNOW, YOU HAVE NEVER HELD A MEETING OF ANY KIND WITH YOUR (SO CALLED MEMBERS) MORE OF YOUR LIES.
YOU HAVE ALSO ADVERTISED, WHERE MEMBERS CAN APPLY FOR ANY POSITION, ON THE BOARD, OR JOB OFFER WITHIN THE ORGANIZATION. I THINK WE MAY ALL BE A BIT LATE FOR THAT MR WALSH, AS YOU SEEM TO HAVE SECURED YOUR SON WITH THE POSITION OF OUTREACH WORKER ALREADY, AND ANY OTHER JOBS, SEEM TO HAVE BEEN ALREADY FILLED WITH OTHER MEMBERS OF YOUR ESTABLISHMENT. (HOW APT)
I HAVE ALSO NOTED SIR, WHEN YOU REFERRED TO THE LAMB HEALING CENTER, YOU HAVE POINTED OUT (YET AGAIN), HOW DESCREETLY YOU JUST HAPPENED TO LEAVE €25.00 WHEN YOU LEFT AFTER YOUR STAY. AGAIN SIR, I WILL SAY, THATS NOT VERY DISCREET NOW, IS IT? WHY DONT YOU JUST COME OUT AND TELL US OUT STRAIGHT TO LEAVE €25.00 WHEN WE GO.
YOU STILL HAVE NOT ANSWERED ONE QUESTION I HAVE ASKED OF YOU, AND YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO BE THERE TO HELP US SURVIVORS. I PERSONALLY THINK SIR, THAT YOU ARE THERE FOR THE ONE PURPOSE OF HELPING YOURSELF, AND YOUR SON, AND PERHAPS EVERYONE ELSE THAT WILL TOE THE LINE, AND AGREE WITH YOUR GOVERNANCE.
YOU STATED ON YOUR NEW SITE ALSO, THAT THE (TWO) FORMER MEMBERS OF YOUR BOARD OF DIRECTORS HAD RESIGNED FOR PERSONAL REASONS. A STATEMENT WHICH I CAN POSITIVLY SAY IS (A LIE) I HAVE SPOKEN TO THESE PEOPLE, AND THEY TELL ME THEY COULD GET NO CO-OPERATION FROM YOU, YOU DISAGREED WITH EVERYTHING THEY SAID, EVERYTHING HAD TO BE YOUR WAY. THIS IS CALLED (DICTATORSHIP) SIR. AS YOU MAY WELL BE AWARE OF. NO DOUBT YOU WERE WELL TUITORED ON THAT. WHY DID YOU NEED THE ADVISE OF A LEGAL ADVISER, RATHER THAN YOUR ELECTED BOARD OF DIRECTORS. THE LEGAL ADVISER IS (NOT) PART OF THE BOARD.
I WILL ASK YOU AGAIN, MR WALSH, TO COME CLEAN TO YOUR (SO CALLED MEMBERSHIP) WE ALREADY KNOW THAT DATABASE YOU HOLD IS (ILLEGALLY HELD)
WHEN WILL YOU HOLD YOUR FIRST MEETING, AND LET YOUR (SO CALLED MEMBERS) SEE WHO IS SPEAKING ON THEIR BEHALF. I BET 90 PER-CENT OF THEM NEVER EVEN HEARD OF YOU. WHEN WILL YOU HOLD YOUR FIRST AGM?
YOU HAVE A LOT OF QUESTIONS TO ANSWER, MR WALSH, BUT OBVIOUSLY YOU ARE AFRAID TO HOLD ANY MEETING, AS YOU WOULD BE TOLD WHERE TO GO. BUT IGNORING MY QUESTIONS, WILL NOT LET YOU OFF THE HOOK, AS I WILL KEEP YOU IN THE LIMELIGHT, FOR AS LONG AS IT TAKES.
JUSTICE for Magdalenes (JFM), the advocacy group calling for a redress system for survivors of Magdalene laundries, has stepped up its campaign as the Justice Minister makes a decision on the issue in the coming weeks.
Justice Minister Alan Shatter and Disability and Equality Minister Kathleen Lynch, who is a long-time supporter of JFM, are set to discuss the issue this week.
Almost six months ago, the Irish Human Rights Commission (IHRC) recommended that the state “establish a statutory mechanism to investigate the matters… and in appropriate cases to grant redress where warranted”.
Former Taoiseach Brian Cowen referred the IHRC assessment to the Attorney General for review last November and in March, Mr Shatter announced he was considering “a draft submission for the Government” on the matter.
This weekend, letters were sent to all senior and junior ministers by JFM seeking support for a redress scheme, though Ireland’s economic situation may hamper this.
In its letter to the minister, the group asked for the state’s assistance in bringing the Church and religious orders to the table.
“We continue to reach out to the four religious congregations that operated the laundries, and to members of the Irish hierarchy. The orders refuse to meet with us; they do not answer our correspondence. We did meet with Cardinal Sean Brady in June 2010, and he characterised JFM’s presentation as ‘fair and balanced’. Moreover, he recommended that we approach CORI as a way to facilitate dialogue with the congregations. However, CORI refused our request for a meeting in October 2010,” the letter said.
JFM called on the state and the Catholic Church to apologise and acknowledge the women as survivors of institutional abuse.
Research by JFM shows the Irish Courts Service sent women to these institutions “on probation” and “on remand” and the Department of Health paid capitation grants for “problem girls” sent there up to the 1980s.
The research also highlights how at no time did the state license, regulate or inspect the Magdalene laundries, which always operated on a for-profit basis.
Consequently, survivors do not receive a pension for their compulsory yet unpaid work in harsh conditions.
This appeared in the printed version of the Irish Examiner Monday, May 02, 2011
Posted by Paddy on 27/04/2011 Leave a comment (1)Go to comments
Dear Mr Doyle,
The Minister for Education and Skills, Mr Ruairí Quinn, T.D., has asked me to refer to your email of 15th April regarding the proposed Statutory Fund, the contents of which have been noted. While the Minister is unfortunately not in a position to meet with you at this time, he has asked me to outline the current position in relation to the proposed Statutory Fund.
As you are aware, following the announcement of the proposal to utilise €110 million of the contributions being offered by the religious congregations to establish a Statutory Fund to support the needs of survivors, the Department undertook a detailed consultation process. Officials met with you on 16th June, 2010 and your submission on the proposed Statutory Fund of 25th August, 2010 was considered. Meetings were held with survivor representatives, religious congregations and other interested parties. In addition, over 250 individual responses were received in response to newspaper advertisements which invited views on the specific needs facing survivors and how the Fund could operate to assist in meeting those needs. As was noted in the advertisements, the Fund is separate and distinct from the compensation scheme operated by the independent Residential Institutions Redress Board, which provides fair and reasonable awards to victims of institutional childhood abuse.
Having considered the views expressed during the consultation process, the Department prepared proposals together with a General Scheme of a Bill to provide for the Statutory Fund. These proposals will now be considered by the Minister and the Government.
The position in relation to the cash contributions is that the sum of €20.6 million has been received and placed in a special interest bearing account in the Central Bank pending the establishment of the Statutory Fund. The remaining congregations are awaiting confirmation that the legislation will provide for the charitable status of their contributions to the Fund or sight of the proposed terms and structure of the Fund, prior to making their initial cash contributions. The offers of contributions envisaged that these contributions would be made over a period of years.
There will be further contact with you following the Government’s consideration of the proposals.
THE European Court of Human Rights has moved a step closer to launching a full hearing into a Cork woman’s appeal against a ruling the state was not legally liable for the sexual abuse she suffered at the hands of a primary school teacher.
Louise O’Keeffe, a 46-year-old mother of two from Bandon, is challenging a Supreme Court ruling from 2009 that the Department of Education was not liable for the abuse she suffered when a pupil at Dunderrow National School, near Kinsale, in 1973.
Ms O’Keeffe has lodged papers with the Strasbourg-based European Court of Human Rights against that ruling on the basis the state is vicariously liable for the abuse at the hands of school principal, Leo Hickey, whom she argues was an employee of the Department of Education.
A ruling by the ECHR in favour of Ms O’Keeffe could have major cost implications for the state, as it is being regarded as a test case by hundreds of others who suffered sexual abuse while in school.
Ms O’Keeffe has complained that the state has breached a number of articles of the European Convention on Human Rights through its failure to have a structure to protect children in national schools from abuse and to protect her from being subjected to inhuman or degrading treatment.
She has also claimed she was discriminated against under Article 14 of the Convention on the basis that the state has accepted responsibility to compensate children for the same abuse suffered in industrial schools and other institutions.
The ECHR has now asked the Government to provide detailed information about the number of primary schools in Ireland in 1973, including the number operated under religious patronage. The court has also sought details about the primary education options available to parents in 1973.
Both the Government and Ms O’Keeffe have been asked to outline their understanding of the precise role and responsibilities of inspectors of national schools in that period, as well as structural changes to the management and administration of such schools which were introduced by the Education Act, 1998.
Critically, the ECHR has requested details of the “precise mechanisms, safeguards and procedures” which were in place to ensure that any complaints of ill-treatment, including sexual abuse reported by school managers, were acted upon by the Department of Education.
Ms O’Keeffe was awarded €305,104 in compensation by the High Court in 1999 in a civil action taken against Hickey.
However, she subsequently lost both High Court and Supreme Court cases in which she sought to make the state liable for the personal injuries she suffered as a result of the abuse.
This appeared in the printed version of the Irish Examiner Wednesday, April 27, 2011
Thank you Mosse, and Bill for your comment’s, and pleased to see you Bill, remark on the fact that you dont know of any Survivor who has had any sort of support or help from ROP. I have asked this same question many time’s over the year’s, but never got one reply or confirmation of assistance from this group.
What i have learned is that there are some Survivor’s, who managed to get themselve’s some education, and turned it to their own advantage, by setting up and running these group’s, while receiving massive funding from the Religious, HSE, and Government Education Dept’s. Thus ensuring they have nice cushy well paid career’s.
And all of the back’s of the fellow Survivor’s they claim to represent.
ROP say they want to see a cash settlement to each Survivor, from the 110 million, but say nothing about the other million’s in Property and Land, that the Religious indicated they were contributing!
Perhap’s that is their idea of where their continued funding should come from?
If ROP, or any other group , seriously had all Survivor’s interest’s at heart, WHY are they not fighting our cause, and insisting on meeting’s with the Government Dept’s concerned? In order to bring this entire sad business to a satisfactory conclusion, for all Survivor’s.
We are getting old while all this is happening far out of reach. tempoary lodgings is what is there for the desperate. we survivers from the fiftysare too old for these places which can be dangerous. and thay know that at right of place. first and second chance. and the other groups. its easy to talk like mr walsh. he is earning a good living thanks to his so called good intentions.but when it comes to what thay offer that the state offers to everyone there is no answer.the salvation offers the lodgings to all .
mossie, thanks for posting the news about rop/cork
as usual thanks to the examiner newspaper for printing same other wise we would never have heard about the money from the HSE to ROP.
All i can see from it all, is, it is money to run
all rop offices all over the country and keep the
reps in work as long as the money lasts,
How much money did rop get over the years,(millions)as we know,the HSE kept sending money
yet no one was held responsible or explained where
the money went.
i dont know of one survivor who got anything from ROP, only the choosen few.(paid staff and cronies)
Now the HSE are supplying the gravy train again.
when was the last meeting held in cork?who replaced the two honest board members on the board,who resigned in discust?(which makes the board in ROP illegal) the place is still rotten to the core aS far as i am concerned.to many closed doors, no imformation a news letter that never tells the truth just propaganda, the scandal just gets worse thanks to the stupid HSE!!!!!!!!!!!
Group for abuse survivors must report to HSE monthly
By Jennifer Hough
SATURDAY, APRIL 23, 2011
MONTHLY expenditure and activity reports must be provided to the HSE by a group for institutional abuse survivors which was on the brink of insolvency last year.
Cork-based Right of Place, now called Right of Place/Second Chance, has been allocated €192,745 in funding for 2011 but must have formal face-to-face meetings every three months with the HSE.
Documents obtained by the Irish Examiner show that late in 2010 the HSE had to make a payment of almost €87,000 to keep the organisation solvent.
The HSE also gave €17,000, €9,000 and a further €7,337 to Right of Place to pay the Revenue Commissioners in respect of “outstanding tax debt”.
According to the HSE, which signed off on the money, it does not know why these payments had to be made and that is it a matter for Right of Place.
The organisation is attempting to put the past behind it and move on from controversy over management and funding last year.
Last November responding to a request for information by the Public Accounts Committee, the HSE said a new model of service would result in a lower cost base.
Outlining the new model it said it would provide an outreach service which will “link survivors into existing statutory services”.
A new website set up last week by the group says it has offices in the Cork, Kerry, Waterford, Limerick and Galway regions.
Services provided include one to one meetings, advocating for survivor needs, information on survivor support, counselling, bereavement support, transitional housing and education grants.
Right of Place/Second Chance wants a cash settlement to be issued to each survivor from the €110 million, which the religious orders have handed over to the state as many are dying in abject poverty.
This appeared in the printed version of the Irish Examiner Saturday, April 23, 2011
Order denies withholding €20m from abuse victims’ fund
By Conor Ryan
FRIDAY, APRIL 15, 2011
A KEY religious congregation contributing to the special fund for victims of institutional abuse has rejected suggestions that millions of euro in compensation was being withheld.
The Oblates of Mary Immaculate confirmed it has €20 million in a special account waiting to transfer to a victims’ trust as soon as the Government could take it. But so far the state has failed to set up this trust, despite promising it after the publication of the Ryan Report almost two years ago.
The contribution would double the amount already signed over to an account set up in advance of the proposed €110m statutory trust for former residents of institutions run by religious orders.
Provincial of the Order, Fr William Fitzpatrick, denied suggestions that religious orders had failed to fulfil their promises simply because the account set up by the Government had so far only received €20.6m — less than a fifth of what was expected.
Fr Fitzpatrick said he received a letter from the department earlier this month which suggested progress on the issue was pending.
“I can speak for the Irish Oblates and say we have promised €20m cash. However, we are still waiting for the Government to establish the trust, which was announced in May 2009. The money has been placed in a designated account and will be paid as soon as the account is set up by the Government.”
The departmental letter to Fr Fitzpatrick said a new law will be brought to Government to advance the matter.
“The department has, following a comprehensive consultation process, prepared proposals together with a General Scheme of a Bill to provide for the Statutory Fund, which will be submitted to the minister and Government.”
The Oblates had €82m in assets at the time a Government panel assessed the value of the portfolios held by the 18 religious orders.
However, it did not have the vast property portfolio of other bodies and instead opted to pay cash by way of compensation.
More than half of its 46 members in Ireland are older than 70.
This appeared in the printed version of the Irish Examiner Friday, April 15, 2011
THE Vatican inquiry team sent to Ireland by Pope Benedict XVI as part of church sex abuse investigations is set to report to the pontiff by Easter.
Archbishop of Dublin, Dr Diarmuid Martin, said the “apostolic visitation” has completed its work.
The investigation, which began in March 2010, has already met with abuse victims and bishops.
The Vatican group’s purpose is to examine whether the processes in place to deal with abuse are effective.
The imminent conclusion of the investigation emerged as it was revealed 50 new alleged clerical sex abuse victims have come forward to make allegations against nine more Dublin archdiocese priests since the 2009 Murphy report.
Figures released by the archdiocese have confirmed that since November 2009 almost a dozen previously unknown potential abusers have been implicated in the scandal.
Before the publication of the report — which gave shocking details of long-standing abuse and attempted cover-ups in Dublin by some clergymen — 520 people had made formal complaints of abuse by 84 priests since 1941.
However, in the 18 months since the publication, a further 50 people have come forward alleging abuse — a figure which implicates nine more priests.
In addition, “suspicions” have been raised over two more priests not currently the subject of complaints, raising the overall figure to 11.
There has been no change in the number of Dublin-based priests or those from other dioceses to hold an appointment in the capital who are the subject of complaints (60); those from other dioceses who performed some work in Dublin (9) since the Murphy report.
A total of 10 Dublin-based priests or ex-priests have been convicted or have cases pending in the criminal courts and two non-diocesan priests who served in Dublin have also been convicted in relation to sex abuse.
In addition, 172 civil actions have been taken by alleged victims against 44 of the archdiocese’s priests.
A total of 117 have been concluded, 55 are ongoing, resulting in €9.3 million worth of settlements and €4.2m in legal costs for those involved.
The figures emerged as the archbishop of Dublin, Dr Diarmuid Martin, and the archdiocese’s child safeguarding and protection office (CSPS) launched the diocesan policy for child safeguarding and protecting children.
Dr Martin said the policy will bring together a series of long-established practices and procedures in the archdiocese to ensure the safety of children.
While the Dublin archdiocese has recently been proactive in this task, other dioceses in the rest of the country have been criticised by some alleged victims for failing to pass on complaints.
Abuse survivor Andrew Madden said while he welcomed the Dublin archdiocese’s commitment to preventing further abuse, “nothing short of this standard is acceptable from any diocese in the country”.
There is only ONE reason last the INCOMPETENT Government wanted to set up the STATUARY TRUST FUND apart from running the country into the ground is to MAKE SURE THEY keep TIGHT REIN’S on all survivors whole lives to keep us under their thumb so that they know every single thing about us and our families IT’S A FORM OF BLACKMAIL, AND THEY CAN HOLD US TO RANSOME if, BIG IF , we or our families need to apply to their trust fund for whatever reason ,Which most survivors would rather NEVER AGAIN want anything to do with government ,Groups, We want to be compansated so we can get on with our lives IN FREEDOM. our hurt is to deep ,our loss to great ,we have all been further ABUSED for the last 13 years by those Groups set up by the STATE and RELIGIOUS ,WE HAVE BEEN USED ,ABUSED AND RECIEVED NO HELP WHATEVER .IF THE GOVERNMENT WANT THIS TO GO AWAY THEY MUST DO WHAT IS RIGHT AND STOP THEIR IMMORAL PANDERING TO THOSE GROUPS >THE AISLINN CENTRE, RIGHT OF PLACE, SOCA UK,AND INVESTIGATE WHERE ALL THE FUNDING THEY RECIEVED HAS GONE AND WHAT ON.ALSO TO CHECK OUT ALL THE SURVIVORS NAMES THEY CLAIMED FUNDING FOR. Compansate the Survivors . my children went to colleges in the 1980’s ,they don’t need to go for any more education ,that is Mrs Buckleys manic idea so she can keep her ego and rich lifestyle going NO OTHER REASON IT HAS TO STOP NOW.
If a civil does not pay fines or whatever thay send the debt collecters to his or her homes. So whats the difference. thay owe ireland a lot of money but the government are too scared to arrest them . So its time to send the finance minester in there to collect in the name of the whole country. it should be claimed from rome as thats thier headquarters.
Somehow or other, i doubt that very much. As has been suggested, i think the best way forward regarding that Trust Fund, is for the whole issue to be brought to The Court’s of Human Rights.
The government do not, and have not been listening to the Survivors at any stage, and have no intention of in the future.
If some of these people who as Survivors themselves, would work for us, rather than work against us, for their own ill-gotten gains, we might have some sort of chance. but no, their own Greed has got the better of them. they forget very quickly where they came from.
Mr Walsh, and his Cronies have gone very quiet, if you have noticed. Do you see, he still refuses to answer any of the questions that have been put to him. Just like Noel Barry. Ignore them, and eventually they will go away, but how wrong they are?
Orders give just €20m of €1.3bn abuse compo bill
By Mary Regan, Political Correspondent
Saturday, April 09, 2011
RELIGIOUS orders have contributed €20 million in cash of the estimated €1.3 billion cost of meeting child abuse compensation claims — leaving most of the rest to be picked up by the taxpayer.
This means the Church has not contributed a cent since the Ryan Report revealed abuse almost two years ago.
Under a controversial deal struck by former education minister Michael Woods, in 2002 the Church’s liability was limited to €128m of an estimated €1.1bn compensation package. But following the publication of the Ryan Report in June 2009 the Church offered to raise its contribution to €348.5m to meet an expected rise in compensation payments.
Last April, the Government asked for a 50:50 split which “would require further contributions of at least €200m from the congregation”, according to Department of Finance documents. But the briefing notes prepared for the new minister for finance, released under the Freedom of Information Act, point out: “Only €20m of the original cash offers has been received.”
The payments were to be broken down into €111m in cash, €2m in rent waivers to the state and €235.5m in property. The documents released yesterday said: “The offers of property are still being examined in terms of their usefulness.” The following two paragraphs of the notes are blacked out.
In November 2008, seven months before the release of the Ryan Report, then minister for education Batt O’Keeffe confirmed €20m in cash had been paid at that stage. He said further cash payments of €32m were being paid in place of agreed property transfers which had not materialised.
Hi Mossie
“Education Minister Ruairi Quinn welcomed the CSP’s position paper and said it would form part of “an essential and informative debate within the education agenda!”
D’You think if we asked nicly, The Minister might welcome an essential and informative debate with the thousands of unrepresented survivors??? I think we all know the answer to that one!
Catholic group plays down school patronage reports
By Seán McCárthaigh
THURSDAY, APRIL 07, 2011
CATHOLIC Church representatives have said reports that up to 50% of Catholic schools will be transferred to other patrons under a new Government initiative are “way over the top”.
The Catholic Schools Partnership (CSP) expressed concern yesterday that reports of the 50% figure had raised fears that some Catholic schools might be forced to relinquish patronage against their will.
The CSP — which was established jointly by the Irish Bishops’ Conference and the Conference of Religious in Ireland — described the 50% figure which has been mentioned by Education Minister Ruairi Quinn as “way over the top.”
CSP executive chairperson Fr Michael Drumm said he believed that it would be quite substantial if only 10% of Catholic schools were transferred to other patrons.
However, he stressed that there was no correct figure as the circumstances of each individual school would need to be assessed separately.
Fr Drumm also said there should be “no rush” to transfer the patronage of schools, despite the fact that Mr Quinn indicated that the process could begin early next year.
Mr Quinn announced last week the establishment of the Forum on Patronage and Pluralism to examine the issue.
Almost 90% of 3,300 primary schools in the Republic are run by the Catholic Church. However, the Catholic hierarchy — most notably, the Archbishop of Dublin, Diarmuid Martin — has acknowledged that it needs to divest itself of some schools as the Catholic Church is over-represented in Irish education.
Launching a position paper by the CSP yesterday, Fr Drumm insisted that any decision on changing the patronage of any school must be taken at a local level. However, he added: “If sufficient demand for a school under different patronage can be demonstrated then all of the stakeholders should work in partnership towards this goal.”
Fr Drumm rejected any suggestion that religious education be regarded as “indoctrination”. He also dismissed as “almost laughable” any attempt to link religious education and sacramental preparations with a decline in literacy and numeracy levels.
Fr Drumm acknowledged that the future of small primary schools was a far more important issue to many parents that the issue of school patronage.
He also said the use of the phrases “inter-denominational” and “multi-denominational” in relation to schools was confusing.
Fr Drumm said there may also be legal issues surrounding the charitable status of trusts which currently oversee many Catholic schools and the transfer of resources in the event of a new patron being appointed.
The CSP said it is conducting its own research of the attitude of stakeholders to the proposed change of patronage of Catholic schools.
The results of such surveys will be analysed at four regional assemblies to be held in June from which the CSP would finalise its position on the transfer of patronage.
Education Minister Ruairi Quinn welcomed the CSP’s position paper and said it would form part of “an essential and informative debate within the education agenda”.
This appeared in the printed version of the Irish Examiner Thursday, April 07, 2011
Priest made child protection trainer despite controversy
By Claire O’Sullivan
WEDNESDAY, APRIL 06, 2011
CLERICAL abuse victims have expressed horror at a decision by the Diocese of Cloyne to appoint a child protection delegate who was forced to step down to the diocese’s child protection training committee.
Fr Bill Bermingham stepped down from his role as Cloyne’s child protection delegate last summer after clerical abuse victims expressed disgust at his decision to show victims’ statements to accused priests and their solicitors before gardaí interviewed them.
He is now one of eight people sitting on the diocese’s child protection training committee which is chaired by Con Lynch.
Last night a Cloyne clerical abuse victim said: “I am sickened that this is possible, that this man could be put in charge of training priests and lay people about best child protection practice. I cannot believe that the Church would even consider this after Fr Bermingham blatantly abused our trust. It can take victims up to 30 years to make a statement and then to have victims’ trust breached like that again is appalling. ”
Chief executive of One in Four, Maeve Lewis, last night said: “Given the history of this man as a child protection delegate and given his complete misunderstanding of or failure to properly manage child protection guidelines, I do not think that he is suitable for training people in this area.”
A spokesman for the diocese last night said Fr Bermingham had “no role in the management in the clerical abuse cases” and was just “overseeing the training of priests and lay people and helping to develop diocesan policy”.
At the end of last year, Fr Bermingham was replaced as child protection delegate by a lay person and former HSE social worker, Bill Meagher.
Fr Bermingham himself was drafted into the role in 2008 when Bishop John Magee’s long-time child protection delegate, Monsignor Denis O’Callaghan stepped down in the face of strong criticism of the diocese’s handling of abuse by the National Board for Safeguarding Children (NBSC).
Meanwhile, the High Court will shortly hear an application by the Minister for Justice as to what parts of the Murphy Commission report into the handling of child sex abuse allegations in Cloyne should be published.
The commission of investigation, set up by the minister, has prepared a report into the handling by the Church and by state authorities of allegations of child sexual abuse against clerics operating in the diocese, which covers north and east Cork, between January 1, 1996, and February 1, 2009.
The report, which consists of 27 chapters, and relates to 19 clerics against whom complaints were made, was submitted to the minister on December 23.
This appeared in the printed version of the Irish Examiner Wednesday, April 06, 2011
IT SEEMS MR WALSH, AND CO HAVE GONE VERY QUIET, AFTER THEIR MISLEADING CONTRIBUTION TO THIS SITE NOT SO LONG AGO. HAS ANYBODY ATTEMPTED TO SHED ANY LIGHT ON THE QUESTIONS THAT WERE ASKED OF THEM RECENTLY? IT SEEMS NOT.
I WILL ASK YOU AGAIN MR WALSH, WHEN ARE YOU GOING TO CALL YOUR FIRST MEETING, WHICH YOU ARE OBLIGED TO HOLD ANNUALLY, AND TAKE THE QUESTIONS FROM YOUR ( SO CALLED MEMBERS )?
YOU CANNOT IGNORE ME ALL THE TIME, YOU KNOW. YOU ARE ALSO IGNORING THESE MEMBERS, YOU SAY YOU REPRESENT, AND SPEAK ON BEHALF OF.
PLEASE TELL EVERYONE HOW YOU MANAGED TO GET THAT POSITION YOU NOW HOLD IN ( RIGHT OF PLACE ) BECAUSE I FOR ONE DO NOT THINK YOU GOT IT LEGALLY.
THERE IS ALSO THE QUESTION OF YOUR SON, ( MICHEAL ) AND THE POSITION HE NOW HOLDS AS ( OUTREACH WORKER ) FOR THE WATERFORD BRANCH.. A POSITION WHICH WAS NOT PUT TO THE MEMBERS TO APPLY FOR. THIS POSITION SHOULD HAVE BEEN GIVEN TO A SURVIVOR.
IT’S VERY EASY FOR YOU TO KEEP IGNORING PEOPLE, AND AVOIDING THE QUESTIONS THAT ARE BEING PUT TO YOU SIR. A PROPERLY, AND DEMOCRATICALLY ELECTED PERSON WOULD HAVE NO PROBLEM ADDRESSING THESE ISSUES, AS HE WOULD HAVE NOTHING TO HIDE, BUT BY YOUR SILENCE, MR WALSH, YOU ARE ONLY MAKING THE ISSUE MORE QUESTIONABLE.
I AM NOT GOING AWAY SIR, ANY TIME SOON. THAT YOU CAN BE ASSURED OF. I AM GOING TO CONTINUE TO KEEP ON ASKING YOU ABOUT THESE ISSUES THAT NEED TO BE ADDRESSED, UNTIL SUCH TIME AS I GET A PROPER, AND TRUTHFUL ANSWER.
I AM NOT ONLY ASKING FOR MYSELF, BUT FOR ALL OF THESE ( SO CALLED MEMBERS ) YOU SAY YOU REPRESENT, BUT HAVE NO MANDATE FROM THESE SURVIVORS TO DO SO.
IF YOU TOOK OVER THE DATABASE FROM THE LAST CHAIRMAN OF RIGHT OF PLACE, ( MR NOEL C BARRY ) THEN YOU TOOK IT OVER ILLEGALLY. MR BARRY HAD DIFFICULTIES WITH THAT CONTRAVERSIAL DATABASE ALSO, AS YOU SHOULD BE WELL AWARE OF.
IF THAT ( SO CALLED ) DATABASE WAS QUESTIONABLE WHEN MR BARRY HELD THAT POSITION SIR, THEN IT IS ( MORE SO ) QUESTIONABLE NOW, SINCE YOU HAVE TAKEN IT OVER. I THINK THAT MAKES PERFECTLY GOOD SENSE. DONT YOU?
MARIE Laughlin , >Industrial Reformatories where Babies and young children were sentenced to detention by the Courts for all or most of our childhoods, >Is totally different to Mother and Baby Homes. that is a different issue and should be taken up with lawyers seperatly .NOT THE SAME THING i’M AFRAID .
A Jesuits order in the US has agreed to pay $166 million to settle more than 500 child sexual abuse claims against priests in five states.
The payout by the Oregon Province of the order – part of an agreement to resolve its two-year-old bankruptcy case – marks one of the biggest settlements to date in the Church’s sexual abuse scandals.
Lawyers for the victims said it also is the largest ever by a Catholic religious order such as the Jesuits.
The Oregon Province covers Oregon, Washington, Alaska, Idaho and Montana.
The victims, most of them Native Americans from remote Alaska Native villages or Indian reservations in the Pacific Northwest, were sexually or psychologically abused as children by Jesuit missionaries in those states in the 1940s through the 1990s, the plaintiffs’ attorneys said.
“No amount of money can bring back a lost childhood, a destroyed culture or a shattered faith,” lawyer Blaine Tamaki, who represents about 90 victims in the settlement, said in a statement.
“This settlement recognizes that the Jesuits betrayed the trust of hundreds of young children in their care,” Tamaki said. “These religious figures should have been responsible for protecting children, but instead raped and molested them.”
The Jesuits’ Oregon Province said the $166.1 million would be paid into a trust to “resolve approximately 524 abuse claims in a five-state area.”
Rebecca Rhoades, another attorney for victims of Jesuit abuse in the Northwest, said settlement negotiations began in earnest in October 2010 and were concluded this week.
She said the settlement, which has been approved by all parties, will be filed with the US Bankruptcy Court in Portland, Oregon, on March 29th.
The Jesuits filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection in February 2009 as litigation over sexual abuse claims was mounting.
Report in paper today, ” Catholic Church yesterday agreed to pay £103 Million to 500 sex abuse victim’s in North West America”.
This is in addition to the many Million’s already paid out over the last 15 year’s, to thousand’s of victim’s in various city’s and parish’s, throughout the rest of the USA, and not forgetting Canada, Austrailia,and other country’s pending! like for example, Holy Ireland!
The Religious in Ireland , after the various report’s came out, Apoligised, and made promise’s to contribute Cash, Property, and Land’s, to all Survivor’s by way of Redress, but the Government have interferred in this matter, and seem to want to take control of these fund’s, and cause further distress to all the Survivor’s, (most who are now in their elder year’s)and deprive us of a just and fair final settlement.
If the Catholic Church can compensate the victim’s of the USA, CANADA, AND AUSTRLIA NOW, WHY CAN THEY NOT DO THE SAME FOR THE THOUSAND’S OF VICTIM’S IN HOLY IRELAND?
The Irish Government should insist that the R/C/Church address all the Survivor’s and Victim’s , that they committed the crime’s against, especially before the Pope’s visit!
Perhap’s then we will be able to read in the paper’s that the Catholic Church finally redressed the Irish Survivor’s of Child Abuse!
I WOULD SAY, MICK, THAT YOUR ASSUMPTION WOULD BE INDEED CORRECT. MR BARRY THOUGHT HE OWN’ED RIGHT OF PLACE. NONE OF THE ANSWERS THAT WERE ASKED OH HIM THEN HAVE BEEN ADDRESSED, AND MOST LIKELY WONT. WE HAVE EXACTLY THE SAME SITUATION AGAIN TODAY, WITH YET ANOTHER DICTATOR IN PLACE.
Michael Walsh, signed the Petition on this site “On behalf of Right of Place Second Chance”
It State Quite Clearly in their News Letter >
“The Trust Fund
Right of Place/ Second Chance has already stated our position on this fund, in our last Newsletter. It is that a cash settlement should be issued to each survivor from the 110 million, which the Religious have handed over to the state.”
It goes on to State >
“Therefore, Right of Place Second Chance also make the case that – not only should the 110 million be handed over to the survivors immediately, but that the 450 million which the church is being asked to hand over to the state as payment for redress which has already been paid out – should in fact be used as a health/welfare support aid – for survivors – to aid us in our ill health and support us and our dependents in out time of need. So that we can live with dignity and die in peace.”
Source – Right of Place/ Second Chance Newsletter February 2011
What from would this “health/welfare support aid” take?
Would it be a Statutory Instrument set up by the Government?
Would this be in the form of a Trust Fund?
How can Right of Place /Second Chance Sign a Petition against a Trust Fund and then ask for a bigger one?
Am I stupid?
At Friday, 17 December 2010
The figures show that out of €348m pledged last year in cash and property after the Ryan report, just 6% has been handed over. No property has been transferred.
More than €26m is still outstanding from the original Indemnity Deal.
Rob, again you fail to answer my question’s, but reply shouting out about your experience of your work in the voluntary sector as a manager, but your remark of of being offered A POSITON by ROP ARE NIL, IS Bullshit!
Your defence of them and your support for them is very obvious,you put down a genuine survivor, you
sing their praise’s, and you plead for them to be given a chance, despite the fact that they clearly have only one road to pursue, to feather their own nest’s , and carve out a nice lifestyle for themselve’s , at the expence of genuine survivor’s !
Question to you Robert, you say your Wife is a victim/ survivor, so why do you want to support the Walsh’s , who are clearly out to deprive your Wife,and all genuine survivor’s of a fair and just redress, to which they are entitled!
Survivor’s live all over the world now, and wont ever benifit from a trust fund, but only a fair redress from the contribution’s made by the religious. Walsh an other group’s dont want that situation, they clearly want to be able to have a regurlar financial amount of money ,to support their fancy lifestyle’s! Is that what you want also? I dont think your Wife would agree!
Rob, you boast of your experience, and training, but i would ask you, how does that compare to a 12 year old boy being taken out of his bed in a dorm, by a religious brother, to the brother’s room, and sexually assaulted, buggered and left bleeding, and threatened with serious damage if he was to open his mouth, and suffered further multi rape in the garden shed by another paedophile brother , and two older boy’s, and to add to the horrible experience’s, suffered more sexual abuse from a priest he had looked up to, and a lay person, who acted like father figure, only to involve him in more sexual abuse in a cinema.
Rob, you dont have an idea of the shit we were put through, you are neither a victim or survivor,and as far as i am concerned, you are no way qualified to decide whose side to take, but i can tell you , the Children that went through these gulag’s are entitled to their say, and to detail their experience’s, and to request just and fair redress!
Your statement that your view’s are not unbalanced are incorrect, why would you try to chastise Paulene? Why would you insist that you are right and so many folk here and on your SOI site are wrong?
Are we all liar’s? We are the victim’s, and Survivor’s here, you insult us all with your comment’s,and you simply dont seem to have an idea of the folks you upset with your comment’s!
Genuine Survivor’s want sincere and true leadership, and every bit of help they can get ,from genuine leader’s, who can show their heart is in the right place, and not dependant on the HSE, to fight in the Survivor’s corner, and help get proper redress, FOR ONCE AND FOR ALL.
We are all old, nearly banjaxed, and pissed of big time with learning of the vast amount of funding various groups are receiving, while doing nothing for the name’s they claim to represent,
and it show’s up here , big time, Rob, when there has never been one posting singing the group’s praise’s,here or on your site!
All in all it support’s our claim’s! They are conmen, and parisite’s, living of genuine survivor’s suffering’s!
Rob, get a grip, stand back, and be honest, if you want to be involved, think of your Wife, and all the other Survivor’s, and forget about the conmen who simply want to fashion out a very nice lifestyle fot themselve;s !
Listen to genuine victim’s, and Survivor’s lucky enough to be still alive.
Marie Therese O’ Loughlin >Never heard of Regina Ceoli ??what sort of place was it ? who ran it.I thought you were in GB ? you say survivors have been at loggerheads with each other ,strange thing to say as we all know most survivors DON’T live in ireland therefore the only ones who were at loggerheads were those who never left ireland and got involved unwillingly maby with those groups. especially the mad enviorenment at the aislinn centre and rop nasty lot the lot of them.
“4)Each and every member of ROP (Survivors) and their family’s were invited to apply for the positions available, and as such each survivor had as much chance as any to get the positions. However after the lessons of the past, it did not matter whether you were a survivor or a dependent, the most qualified person got the job. Which i’m sure you would agree with?”
A little further on we have this Rebuttal!
“Michael jnr, has stated that each and every member and their family’s could have applied for position’s that were availible, but as a former member, i was never made aware of any position’s that were avialible, was never informed ,or invited to apply for anything, so that is total b******T.”
The Question is >
How where the 1,750 Members informed of the Positions?
NOTHING I HAVE SAID, ARE WITHOUT FOUNDATION, OR COULD INDEED BE CONSTRUCTED AS SLANDEROUS. I CONTINUE TO ASK YOUR FATHER TO ANSWER QUESTIONS FROM TIME TO TIME. HE SEEMS TO HAVE SOME SORT OF PROBLEM WITH THIS REQUEST. IF INDEED HE HAS A PROBLEM WITH THIS REQUEST, THEN I MIGHT SUGGEST HE SHOULD NOT BE IN THE POSITION HE HOLDS, AS THAT POSITION EXPECTS A PROPER AND TRUTHFUL RESPONSE FOR THE ( SO CALLED MEMBERS ) HE SUPPOSIDLY REPRESENT.
GETTING AN APPOINTMENT AS AN “ OUTREACH WORKER “ FOR A COMPANY, WHEN YOUR FATHER IS THE CHAIRMAN OF THE BOARD OF DIRECTORS, HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH BEING A ROAD SWEEPER, OR A ROCKET SCEINTIST, BUT AS WE SAY IN IRELAND, “ ITS WHO YOU KNOW, AND NOT WHAT YOU KNOW”
ON THE OTHER HAND, HAD YOU BEEN OFFERED AND REFUSED, THEN THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN THE HONORABLE THING TO DO, THEN NO STONES WOULD HAVE BEEN CAST AT YOU. BUT I GUESS IN THE END, GREED WILL ALWAYS WIN OUT.
AT THE END OF THE DAY SIR. IT IS ONLY THE VIEWS AND COMMENTS OF ( RIGHT OF PLACE ) THAT THE MEMBERS ARE INTERESTED IN.
REGARDING YOUR APPOINTMENT, TO THE POSITION OF (OUTREACH WORKER) WHAT I MEANT TO SAY WAS, IT IS MY OPINION THAT YOU’RE FATHER HAD INFLUENCE OVER YOUR APPOINTMENT TO THAT POSITION. YOU ALSO ASK ME IF THE HSE, AND THE VEC, ARE INCAPABLE OF MAKING DECISIONS? WHATEVER ABOUT THE VEC, MAKING A DECISION, BUT THE HSE? DO YOU READ THE PAPERS AT ALL? THE HSE SEEM TO BE IN THE HEADLINES EVERY DAY, AND FOR ALL THE WRONG REASONS, AND YOU ASK ME IF I THINK THEY ARE CAPABLE? NEED I SAY ANY MORE?
I DON’T BELIEVE, FOR ONE-MINUTE SIR, THAT YOUR FATHER HAD NO INPUT AT ANY LEVEL, WHATSOEVER IN YOUR APPOINTMENT TO THE POSITION YOU NOW HOLD. NOT FOR ONE MINUTE. DO YOU THINK WE ARE ALL FOOLS? I WOULD INDEED HAVE LOVED TO SEE THE FACTS THAT THEY HAD IN FRONT OF THEM, WHEN THAT DECISION WAS MADE.
“ PLEASE TELL ME, IN (WHAT) PUBLIC NEWSPAPER, WAS THIS POST ADVERTISED?
IT IS MY BELIEF, THAT ALL PUBLIC SALARIED POSTS, (MUST) BE ADVERTISED IN THE NATIONAL NEWSPAPERS, AND MUST BE SEEN TO BE FAIR AND EQUITABLE.
TO MY KNOWLEDGE, THIS IS THE LAW OF THE LAND, AND IF YOU DON’T BELIEVE ME, YOU CAN GET THE COMPANY BARRISTER TO CHECK IT OUT.
YOU ALSO STATED THAT EVERY MEMBER OF RIGHT OF PLACE WAS INVITED TO APPLY FOR THIS POSITION.
I CAN NOW CONFIRM, THAT THIS IN COMPLETELY WITHOUT FOUNDATION.
MANY GOOD DECENT AND HONORABLE MEMBERS, WHO QUESTION THE DODGY GOVERNANCE PRACTICES OF (RIGHT OF PLACE) WERE NEVER GIVEN THE OPPORTUNITY TO APPLY.
PERSONALLY SIR, I COULD CARE LESS WHAT MR Mc ALLISTER WOULD HAVE TO SAY ABOUT THE ALLEGED ACCUSATIONS YOU TALK ABOUT. THIS IS MY OPINION, AND I AM QUITE ENTITLED TO HAVE MY OPINION. I AM NOT BEHOLDING TO ANYONE FROM THE HSE, AND I AM SURE IT WAS THE HSE WHO DECIDED THIS. AGAIN IT IS MY OPINION, BUT PERSONALLY I THINK THE HSE, AND ANYTHING IT DOES IS INDEED VERY QUESTIONABLE.
THE LAST TIME THE HSE APPOINTED ANYONE IN RELATION TO THE BUSINESS OF (RIGHT OF PLACE) IT WAS YOUR FATHER WHO WAS APPOINTED BY THE HSE, TO OVERSEE THE ELECTIONS OF THE NEW BOARD OF DIRECTORS OF (RIGHT OF PLACE)
AND GUESS WHAT, YOUR FATHER GOT HIMSELF ELECTED CHAIRMAN OF THE NEW BOARD OF DIRECTORS. ? HOW DID HE MANAGE THAT, STRANGE?
AND NOW!! GUESS WHAT AGAIN; YOU’RE APPOINTED “ OUTREACH WORKER “ WHY ARE WE NOT SURPRISED?? MAYBE WE ARE MISSING SOMETHING HERE?
DID YOU EVER THINK THAT YOURSELF, AND THE YOUNG LADY INSIDE (RIGHT OF PLACE) IN THE OFFICE, MIGHT BE DEPRIVING SURVIVORS OF A CHANCE TO WORK, AND HELP THEIR FELLOW SURVIVORS? AND TO MAKE IT WORSE STILL, BOTH OF YOU ARE NOT EVEN SURVIVORS? I THINK THAT’S VERY STRANGE.
HOW LONG DO THESE PEOPLE HAVE TO WAIT TO HAVE THEIR QUESTIONS ANSWERED? HOW MANY TIMES DO I NEED TO ASK YOUR FATHER TO EXPLAIN SOME SIMPLE QUESTIONS? WHEN IS HE GOING TO GRACE THE SURVIVORS WITH HIS PRESENCE FOR A GENERAL MEETING, SO SURVIVORS CAN ASK HIM TO EXPLAIN WHO HE IS, HOW HE GOT THERE, WHAT HE STANDS FOR, WHO PUT HIM THERE, AND ALL THESE OTHER RELEVANT QUESTIONS THEY NEED HIM TO ANSWER? DOES HE HAVE A HIDDEN AGENDA? PERHAPS?
PLEASE EXPLAIN THIS STATEMENT FROM YOURSELF, AND THESE ARE YOUR OWN WORDS. “ HOWEVER AFTER THE LESSONS OF THE PAST, IT DID NOT MATTER WHETHER YOU WERE A SURVIVOR OR A DEPENDANT, THE MOST QUALIFIED PERSON GOT THE JOB.”I SIR, MOST DEFINATLY DO NOT AGREE WITH YOU. WHO SAID YOU WERE THE MOST QUALIFIED? THE HSE? ARE YOU AWARE SIR, OF THIS NEW GOVERNMENTS INTENTIONS OF CLOSING DOWN THE HSE ALTOGETHER? I WONDER WHAT THE REASON FOR THAT MIGHT BE?
IT IS OBVIOUS FROM THE ABOVE COMMENT SIR, THAT YOU KNOW ABSOLUTELY NOTHING AT ALL ABOUT THE PAST, AND PRESENT HISTORY OF (RIGHT OF PLACE)
IM SURE THE LADY YOU SPEAK ABOUT IN THE OFFICES HAS A GREAT AFFINITY AS YOU SO PUT IT WITH MANY OF THE SURVIVORS, AND I HAVE NOTHING PERSONAL TO SAY ABOUT HER. BUT THE FACT IS SIR, SHE IS NOT A SURVIVOR, AND THAT IS NOT THE PLACE FOR HER.
I WONDER ALSO WHO THE 6 SURVIVORS WHO YOU SAY EVEN LOBBIED ON HER BEHALF, AND SAID SHE WOULD BE EXCELLENT AT THE JOB? I COULD ALMOSE GUESS.
YOU ALSO SAY THE ANGLING CLUB WAS AN IDEA FROM A SURVIVOR, WHO YOU SAID RANG UP AND ASKED FOR IT TO BE SET UP. IS IT THAT EASY TO HAVE A CLUB LIKE THAT SET UP ON A PHONE CALL FROM ONE SURVIVOR?
IF I SIR, AS A SURVIVOR RANG UP TOMORROW AND PROPOSED FOR A FLYING CLUB TO BE SET UP, WOULD THAT BE POSSIBLE ALSO. IS IT REALLY AS SIMPLE AS THAT?
I DON’T BELIEVE FOR ONE MINUTE EITHER, THAT YOU ARE GETTING CALLS FROM SURVIVORS WHO WANT TO RE-ENGAGE WITH THAT DISCREDITED PLACE IN LOWER GLANMIRE ROAD, (RIGHT OF PLACE) THIS I WILL BELIEVE, IF IT EVER HAPPENS. ALSO TO CALL THE PEOPLE IN THE HSE, WHO MADE THESE DECISIONS, (PROFESSIONAL) IS AN UNDERSTATEMENT. AND OF COURSE YOU WOULD STAND BY THEM NOW. WOULD’NT YOU.
WE ALL KNOW, AND UNDERSTAND, THE PROFESSIONALS WHO ALLOWED MR BARRY, AND THE NOW CHAIRMAN OF THE NEW BOARD OF DIRECTORS, (YOUR FATHER) TO REFUSE TO BE ACCOUNTABLE FOR THE (3.5 MILLION) THAT WAS PUMPED INTO (RIGHT OF PLACE)
THE CHAIRMAN OF THE SAME COMPANY (YOUR FATHER) MUST NOW ACCOUNT TO THE MEMBERSHIP FOR THIS MONEY. HE IS NOW FULLY RESPONSIBLE.
HE REFUSED TO SUPPORT HIS SECRETARY, AND TREASURER, WHEN THEY WANTED ACCOUNTABILITY, BUT THIS NO DOUBT WILL COME BACK TO HAUNT HIM AT A LATER DATE. TRUST ME!!
NONE OF MY SO CALLED ALLEGATIONS SIR ARE WITHOUT FOUNDATION. READ THE IRISH EXAMINER, IF YOU THINK THEY ARE WITHOUT FOUNDATION.
IT IS MY OPINION, AND THE OPINION OF MANY OTHERS, THAT YOU DID GET THAT POSITION BECAUSE OF NEPOTISM, AND THAT WILL REMAIN MY OPINION. WHY URGE THE PEOPLE ON THIS SITE TO CONTACT ANY OF YOUR OFFICES, TO HAVE THEIR QUESTIONS ANSWERED.
WHY DON’T YOUR FATHER, IN HIS POSITION OF CHAIRMAN, CALL A GENERAL MEETING, WHICH HE HAS NEVER DONE, AND ADDRESS THE MEMBERS IN AN OPEN DISCUSSION. IS THAT TOO MUCH TO ASK? THAT’S THE DEMOCRATIC WAY OF DOING THINGS, DO YOU NOT AGREE?
THERE IS AN OLD SAYING AS YOU MAY WELL BE AWARE OF MICHEAL, YOU CAN FOOL SOME OF THE PEOPLE SOME OF THE TIME, BUT YOU CANT FOOL ALL THE PEOPLE, ALL OF THE TIME.
IF YOU WANT SOME LEGAL ADVICE, I SUGGEST YOU ASK MR BARRY FOR ADVICE. HE TOOK OUT AN INJUNCTION AGAINST 4 FELLOW SURVIVORS WHO DID NOT AGREE WITH HIS GOVERNANCE, AND THEN DENIED THEM THEIR DAY IN COURT. HE COULD NOT AFFORD THE CASE TO GO INTO THE PUBLIC DOMAIN, FOR FEAR OF LANDING HIMSELF IN JAIL.
NOW THOSE 4 INNOCENT SURVIVORS, ARE STUCK WITH THEIR LEGAL COST’S FOR DEFENDING THEIR GOOD NAME, AND MR BARRY GOT AWAY SCOTT FREE, THANKS TO, NO SUPPORT FROM (YOUR FATHER) MR MICHAEL WALSH, WHO IS HIMSELF NOW, (CHAIRMAN OF THE BOARD)
I would like to apologise to Pauline if she felt my posting above was a personal attack on her; I was trying to explain my comment prior to that one.
The Last time I worked in the Voluntary Sector was 1989 as Manager of a Business Advice Agency; as I pointed out the Funding was against Clear Measurable Targets?
I try to help others with the knowledge I have picked up over the years.
The Chance of me being offered a Job by Right of Place are NONE!
The Chances of me accepting a Job with an Organisation that Will not Answer the Questions on this Site are Even Slimmer!
I still want them to Ballot their Current Members List to “Opt In”?
As for my “Unbalanced Views” They are my own and no one else’s; and I do not claim to speak for anyone else but me!
Well i had a message from rob on my page saying he did not intend to be hurtfull. i believe him of course. but i can see that both the michaels get treated well. and thier long winded comments about themselves seemto go on and on. i think we can be honest with each other about ourselves. i try anyway. but i dont see any effort on thier part to except our point of vue.and i found them anything but candid. so why was this said thats what i asked in the first place
Hi Paulene, no need to thank me, i was just expressing my feeling’s, which i beleive is allowed , i am fed up with the impression from some folk that only Group leader’s are entitled to be angry! AND DO WHAT THEY LIKE, DECEIVE FOLK, AND FUND THEIR OWN COMFORT’S, AND AS YOU RIGHTLY SAY, TAKE THE P OUT OF US ALL!
Well thanks james for your understanding . you know if thats answering to michaels best ability .Ifind it very strange that he should want to work with damaged people.Icant see any mention of his or his dads qualifications. and his answeres to normal questions are very evasive.there was no need at all to make a mystery out of himself. thats taking the piss out of us
Rob, you say Micheal has come clean, but i would ask you this question,If there was no deceit in the first place, there would have been no need to come clean!
How exactly are you qualified to know whether Michael has answered all question’s to the best of his ability?
It is very apparent to one and all here, that their question’s have been ignored, their skill at dodging these question’s , asked by Genuine Survivor’s, who have every right to ask, all ignored!
We have a crazy situation here, A Survivor who set’s himself up as Chairman of ROP, and
now his Son,(who is no more a Survivor than you Rob,) who is set up as an outreach officer in Co Waterford, and both of them claiming all is above board, nice cushy post’s, fully funded by the HSE, and you jumping on the bandwagon Rob, in singing their praise’s and defending them, and to add insult to injury, inflicting your unbalanced view’s on an elderly lady, a GENUINE SURVIVOR, who ,like so many Survivor’s here, and on your website, have clearly shown their feeling’s and concern’s about these Group’s and the Funding they receive, off the back’s of all Genuine Survivor’s.
I dont know or understand where you are coming from Rob, with your view’s, or what your ulterior motive is, you run Shame of Ireland, but you also run with hound’s ,so to speak, you clearly show that, and i thought your S O I site was for Survivor’s, but you ignore the damage the various Group’s have done and are still doing to Survivor’s! And your patronising them leave’s a sour taste in my throat!
The way you go on, i would not be shocked to see you appointed as ROP’s new outreach worker in the UK. Your attack on Paulene, and defence of the Walsh’s give’s this impression.
I want nothing more to do with your S O I , I would rename it SHAME OF WALE’S!
A survivor turns up in Dublin after many many years a certain government and religious surported and well funded so called group leader hears this survivor is about and seems to go into a panic and gathers the small group and tells them If they see this survivor NOT to have anything to do with her as she is Trouble ,thus blackening the name of the poor returning survivor who by the way happens to have grown up in the same industrial school as the government and religious funded group leader .>Who shouts about how much she cares and helps survivors >She helps them alright by frightening and Bullying the life out of them enough to make them either leave Ireland or move as far away from her as possible.
JUSTICE NEEDS TO BE SERVED , GOD BLESS ALL VICTIMS AND SURVIVORS OF INSTITUTIONALISED ABUSE ..
JUDGEMENT DAY IS COMING MY BROTHERS AND SISTERS ..
STAY STRONG …..
Mrs Buckley will you put the names of all the Victims that you have claimed funding for over the years, The Victims have a human right to know who has had their names on their lists and how much funding you received for each Victim, >Reminds me that’s just how the Nun’s and Christian Brothers and other religious did it in Industrial Prisons for their funding they could have added as many names as they liked as NO ONE CHECKED NOR CARED.
Marie Therese O’Loughlin, you say kindness to all survivors???should NOT that include> UNDERSTANDING <when SURVIVORS come back to ireland after living often totally alone in foregin countrys often not well AND DISTRESSED having hidden buried and blocked out their past for many lonley years but the SOUL becomes desparate and awakes with an overpowering desparate need to find something or someone who might remember them as a child ,to find any link that might marry them to their past ,Root's or childhood ,even to find a photograph hidden in someones file or kept by someone who for some very selfish reason holds onto Photos often photos that they themselves are not even in,those photos could be a massive part of the Victims healing if they are in those photos to just see they were once a child,many years later after much Mental torment they book their flight and arrive in Ireland ,the fear and horrible Memories rush back only to be met with TOTAL HOSTILITY and INDIFFERENCE Bullied and Mentally brused again troding the lonley pavements to sit alone in some Hotel or Bed and Breakfast how many survivors who have homes and Never left Eire offered any kindness to put them up ????????NONE, at the end of the day NOONE in Ireland gives a fiddlers Fart weather its their first return visit or they never come back,and that is a very good reason to SCRAP THE STATUARY TRUST FUND AND COMPANSATE THE VICTIMS AND DISBAND ALL THOSE GROUPS EVERY ONE OF THEM.
We had Mr Barry, We had Mr Waters and Family(Avoca House) where is all that money in their funding in our names gone????Now We have the allusive Mr Walsh and Family. >Buckley and Family, when is the government going to stop all this ,In order that we the survivors can move on we must be compensated instead of giving funding to those groups that most real survivors have never used nor benefited from ,It’s unhealthy as it holds the past in the present all the time and That is only in groups interest to continue getting FUNDING in our name .The government should check out all names those people claim to represent with each person whose name is on some list, If my name has been on any list over the years I will take the person to court for Theft of my Identity for criminal gains. All those groups who claimed expenses over the years need to explain what the money was for.
Hi Pauline,
Michael has come clean about who his Father is, knowing full the response that he would reecieve, he has answered the questions to the best of his ability?
I can respect a Man or Woman without agreeing with everything they say.
I have worked in the Voluntary Sector in the UK and Funding there is on Clear Measurable Outcomes!
These are Supported by Case Studies of what HAS be achieved?
Sometimes even Reports for the Funding Organisation highlighting NEEDS and How those Needs CAN and will be MET?
After 10 YEARS I would expect THIS????
ALL this should be in the PUBLIC DOMAIN for ALL to SEE?
could somebody anybody point me to a comment on this site as to help they have been given from R O P or any group and if that help was usefull satisfactory ??
FOR YEARS WE HAVE BEEN LOOKING FOR ANSWERS FROM ROP THE VEC AND THE HSE,ALL WE GET IS LIES AND
CONTEMPT.
WHAT IS THERE TO HIDE,SURLEY THE VEC AND THE HSE
MUST ANSWER THE QUESTIONS ASKED,THEY ARE PUBLIC
BODIES ,NOT SECRET ORGANISITIONS!!!!!!!!!!!
I THINK THE ONLY WAY WE CAN GET ANSWERS IS TO GO
TO THE MEDIA AND GET THIS DISGRACE DEBATED ON THE JOE DUFFY SHOW VINCENT BROWNE OR PAT KENNY.
ALL SURVIVERS SHOULD GO TOO THEIR TDS AND GET IT BROUGHT UP IN THE DAIL WE SURVIVERS ARE NOT YOUNG ANY MORE TIME IS RUNNING OUT (HOW MANY OF US WILL BE ALIVE NEXT YEAR).WHY CANT WE GO TO THE COURT OF HUMAN RIGHT TO GET THE TRUTH ONCE AND FOR ALL
AS TO OUR SO CALLED GROUPE LEADERS YOU HAVE CREATED MORE HURT AND PAIN AND DISCUST TO ALL SURVIVERS BUT REMEMBER JUSTICE WILL PREVAIL AND
YOU WILL ALL HAVE TO ANSWER TO MAN AND GOD
Micheal- It’s a bit rich using words like “slanderous and disrespectful” to Mossie, a survivor, when you claim to care so much about survivors, and especially so, when Right of Place Second Chance, are in receipt of funds with a Highly Questionable Membership.
Throwing about unproven figures like 1.750, is showing total disrespect for survivors and families alike and an insult to their/our intelligence…(and the Government of course)
It’s only a matter of time Micheal, when this group and all groups, will become accountable to Government and Religious, for their membership and financial expenditure, so wouldn’t get too cosy or smug if I were you!
I would however wish you every success in any other work you may obtain outside of the Funded Survivor Groups – Kay
Hello rob what do you mean by the word candour concerning mini michael. after all i only just found out that thay were both called michael walsh .and its been a while now on both sites so how come. we did try and find out how many there were.Of course the hse. vec arange things out of pure friendship im sure. thats always been the case .if thay did understand us this thing would not exist.thay would be listening to us instead of expecting us to listen them .
JAMES, YOU ARE CORRECT THERE. THEY HAVE INDEED BEEN TOLD ABOUT ALL OF THIS CARRY ON IN RIGHT OF PLACE ESPECIALLY, BUT FOR SOME UNKNOWN REASON, THEY TEND TO IGNORE IT, WHY? I DON’T KNOW.
BUT THE MOST UNUSUAL THING ABOUT IT ALL, NO ONE SEEMS TO WANT TO INVESTIGATE ALL OF THIS? I CANNOT WONDER WHY?
THE MEDIA, IN FAIRNESS, ESPECIALLY THE EXAMINER HAVE BEEN HIGHLIGHTING THIS FOR A LONG TIME NOW, BUT IT SEEMS TO BE FALLING ON DEAF EARS. I STILL THINK, (PERSONALLY) THAT MR NOEL C BARRY, AND HIS HENCHMEN ARE STILL WORKING AWAY BEHIND THE SCENES, IN THE BACKGROUND.
I AM ALSO INCLINED TO AGREE WITH YOU, JIMMY THAT THE HSE ARE INDEED INCAPABLE OF, OR SIMPLY DON’T WANT TO INVESTIGATE THESE PEOPLE. WHO KNOWS, MAYBE THEY HAVE THEIR OWN REASONS FOR DOING THIS?
MICHAEL JUNIOR DID SAY THAT ALL SURVIVORS COULD HAVE APPLIED FOR THESE VACANCIES, AND EVERYONE IN RIGHT OF PLACE WAS INFORMED OF THIS. THAT IS INCORRECT. CAN ANYONE IN RIGHT OF PLACE CONFIRM THIS?
ANYONE I HAVE MET HAVE ASSURED ME, THEY WERE NEVER ASKED, OR GOT APPLICATION FORMS TO APPLY FOR THE VACANCIES. AND PER CHANCE, MICHAEL JUNIOR, JUST SO HAPPENS TO HAVE FILLED THE VACANCY, AND HIS FATHER HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH IT? I FOR ONE DO NOT BELIEVE THAT FOR ONE MINUTE.
I AM NOT SAYING THAT JUNIOR WOULD NOT BE CAPABLE OF DOING THE JOB, BUT THE FACT THAT ANY SURVIVOR DID NOT GET EVEN HALF A CHANCE AT APPLYING FOR IT.
YES, YOU WILL HEAR PLENTY ABOUT WHAT THEY HAVE DONE, AND SO ON, BUT YOU WILL NEVER GET ANY PROOF. AS FOR NEW APPLICANTS, I WOULD LOVE TO SEE THAT LIST, I WOULD LOVE TO LEARN WHAT METHODS WERE USED TO OBTAIN THEM?
AS FOR THEIR MEMBERSHIP JIMMY, THEY WILL NEVER TELL YOU. THE DATABASE THEY TOOK OVER FROM THE LAST REGIME, WAS ALWAYS QUESTIONABLE, AND TO THIS DAY IS MORE SO. THESE ARE THE MEMBERS THEY CLAIM TO REPRESENT. BUT DON’T YOU THINK THEY SHOULD AT LEAST, (ASK) THESE MEMBERS, IF INDEED THEY WISH THIS NEW GROUP TO REPRESENT THEM? DO THESE PEOPLE EVEN KNOW HOW THEIR NAMES, AND ADDRESSES CAME TO BE ON THAT DATABASE? I BET NOT.
I WOULD ALSO LIKE TO ASK MR WALSH, HOW MANY OF THE OLD REGIME, ARE STILL WORKING FOR RIGHT OF PLACE, EITHER IN THEIR OFFICES, OR OUTSIDE? ALSO HOW MANY OF A STAFF THEY HAVE ON THEIR PAYROLL. THE LAST I HEARD THERE WERE (18) STAFF, WHAT DO THEY DO? THERE NEVER SEEMS TO BE ANY MORE THAN ONE OR TWO THERE WHEN EVER YOU CALL. AND MR WALSH, I BELIEVE, CAN ONLY BE GOT ON A THURSDAY. HOW COME. DO YOU NEED 18 PEOPLE TO RUN THIS PLACE? WELCOME HOUSE IS NOW GONE, AND THEY STILL SEEM TO HAVE 18 STAFF. VERY STRANGE INDEED.
YOU COULD KEEP ASKING QUESTIONS JIMMY, BUT THEY WONT ANSWER. YOU WILL ONLY GET THE MUSHROOM SYNDROME. KEPT IN THE DARK, AND FILLED FULL OF S**T. TAKE CARE MOSSIE
Micheal,when you joined The Shame Of Ireland you never mention you were the son of Micheal Walsh I find that dishonest.Opening more centers in Ireland wont help survivors living in different parts of the world.The Government needs to listen to survivors and disband all groups they only care about themselves.
YES KAY, I SUPPOSE THEY ARE A FAMILY CONCERN, AND YES I DID INDEED NOTICE HIS CANVASSING FOR MEMBERSHIP, AND I HAVE NO DOUBT, THE REASON FOR THIS IS, THAT HE HAS NO MEMBERSHIP?
HOW ON EARTH COULD HE HAVE MEMBERSHIP, WHEN HE NEVER EVEN HAD A MEETING WITH THIS ALLEGED (1,750) SURVIVORS, HE IS SUPPOSED TO REPRESENT?
HE IS DOING EXACTLY THE SAME THING AS HIS PREDECESSOR DID. WHEREEVER THEY GOT THE NAMES AND ADDRESSES FOR THE SURVIVORS ON THAT DATABASE OF HIS, (HAS TO BE ILLEGAL)
WHEN DOES HE INTEND TO SEND OUT APPLICATION FORMS TO ALL OF THOSE PEOPLE? WHEN DOES HE INTEND TO HOLD A GENERAL MEETING FOR THE SURVIVORS ON HIS DATABASE?
IS THIS TOO MUCH TO ASK OF SOMEONE WHO IS SUPPOSED TO REPRESENT SURVIVORS? I DON’T THINK SO. HE IS TREATING ALL SURVIVORS WITH THE EXACT SAME CONTEMPT AS HIS PREDECESSOR. NOTHING CHANGES.
YES KAY, IS SURE IS THE FIRST. I WONDER HOW MANY HE WILL GET? NOT TOO MANY WE WOULD GUESS.
LIKE I STATED A LONG TIME AGO. PEOPLE NEED TO WRITE TO MR WALSH IN RIGHT OF PLACE, AND DEMAND THEIR NAMES AND ADDRESSES BE REMOVED FROM THEIR (ILLEGAL) DATABASE. AND ALSO TO BE ISSUED WITH A PERSONAL GUARANTEE, FROM MR WALSH PERSONALLY, THAT THIS HAS BEEN DONE.
THAT’S A GOOD IDEA ALSO KAY, WHEN YOU SUGGESTED ALL EMAIL THEIR CONCERNS TO THE NEW GOVERNMENT MINISTERS, AND TO HIGHLIGHT THEIR CONCERNS.
I AM DOING THIS KAY, AFTER OVERSEEING THE SO CALLED (SCAM ELECTIONS) THIS PARTY IN RIGHT OF PLACE HELD DURING LAST YEAR. BELIEVE ME, NOTHING HAS CHANGED IN RIGHT OF PLACE, ONLY THE DICTATOR. NOTHING WAS LEGALLY DONE. THEY ALL KNOW IT, BUT SO DO WE.
Mossie, For £26,ooo, plus expense’s, and allowance’s, a year , i think many of us could easily claim to be passionate about a job.
Over the last 10 year’s, the HSE were made aware of the fact’s about the massive funding to various Group’s, and especially ROP, who certainly milked it for all they could get, and failed to justify!
Survivor’s and the new’s media, Cork Examiner, and other paper’s, made these fact’s apparent to the HSE, but all to no avail!
So , in view of the fact that the HSE did not bother to investigate these matter’s, and the fact that they continue to fund these Group’s, and ignore Survivor’s comment’s and concern’s, would indeed be proof that the HSE are incapable of giving fair decision’s.
Michael jnr, has stated that each and every member and their family’s could have applied for position’s that were availible, but as a former member, i was never made aware of any position’s that were avialible, was never informed ,or invited to apply for anything, so that is total b******T.
The only time i ever asked for anything, was from the ROP chairman, Michael’s Dad, and that was back in Oct2010, when i received a letter asking me to travel to London, attend a meetin and make a vote for London deligate’s, I replied that i would be willing to do this, if he could arrange to fund me the travel and meal cost for the day out, explaining that i am an OAP, and could not afford it. £40 would have covered this, as i live near Brighton. Needless to say , i got no reply or contact on this matter. Even though they have all my detail’s.
While there is much mention of various way’s this family concern are going to help Survivor’s /Member’s,with welfare, housing, social inclusion, fishing club, healing centre, etc etc, it seem’s to me that unless you reside in Southern Ireland, you wont qualify for even any sort of help,or support!
There is plenty said about the folk they have helped and supported so far, but where is there any actual evidense of this?
Plenty said about the amount of new applicant’s, but again ,where is there proof of this?
Many question’s were asked concerning the member’s they took over from the old ROP, but were ignored. Question’s like the actual amount of member’s they claim to currently have, Question’s about the amount of member’s they have lost , through resignation, or no longer with us?
How many reader’s here and on S O Ireland , can offer actual confirmation, that they have had support / help from this ROP or the old outfit?
I dont recall ever reading a posting of anyone singing the praise’s of either of these outfit’s.
It appear’s that this new ROP are going to be a Family concern, Chairman, and Outreach Officer, one in Waterford, the other in Cork, with no doubt cushy secure steady employment, well paid, and nicely furnished Office’s , fully staffed, and all funded out of the biggest part of the Religious Contribution’s, which were in fact ,intended for Survivor’s!
And with the HSE and VEC involved, a fair and just settlement for ALL Survivor’s, living all over the world, now seem’s very unlikly!
An important lesson keep’s bugging me, i used to think all Survivor’s were equal, but over the year’s it has been my impression that there are Survivor’s who deem themselve’s more EQUAL than other’s !
I leave it to the reader here to decide who in fact these folk are?
Michael, just what are your Qualifications ?that you believe you are the right person to be able to deal with survivors who suffered inhuman brutiality through their whole childhood’s,what are you trained in???? Survivors have been Abused and Used by dodgey Groups and their self appointed Ego Tripping so called Leaders who all Feathered their own NESTS, while many real Victims never got any real help indeed NO help at all ,many were left to sleep out on the streets ,or had to queue up to get into a homeless hostel for the night ,many left to suffer alone in different parts of the world with NO help many in bad health,many who tried to return to ireland found themselves BULLIED when they went to ask advice or god forgive IN NEED OF HELP none was ever forthcoming ,those groups are nothing but a sham and all they are interested in is the FUNDING .SO Michael I will Also try asking you a question WHO ARE YOU, WHAT QUALIFICATIONS DO YOU HAVE TO DEAL WITH VICTIMS OF SERIOUS CHILD ABUSE? NONE I AMAGINE .ARE YOU A FRIEND OF NOEL BARRY, OR BUCKLEY??DO YOU HAVE ANY DEALINGS WITH THESE PEOPLE ,THE ABUSE SUFFERED BY CHILDREN IN THOSE DARK PRISONS WAS SO GREAT IT LEFT LASTING DAMAGE, SO MICHAEL YOU DONT HAVE A CLUE HOW TO DEAL WITH ABUSE VICTIMS.WHAT IS YOUR NAME >>>>CAN YOU ANSWER THAT. WE HAVE A HUMAN RIGHT TO KNOW WHO IS TELLING US THEY WILL GET HUGE FUNDING IN OUR NAME .
MICHEAL WHEN YOU FIRST COMMENTED ON THIS SITE YOU
SAID YOU WERE A DECENDENT OF A SURVIVER YOU NEVER MENTIONED YOU WERE THE SON OF MICHAEL WALSH THE NEW NOEL BARRY,ALL THE QUESTIONS THAT MOSSIE ASKED WERE NEVER ANSWERED ALL WE GOT WAS GIBBERISH
AND LIES
I WILL ASK YOU(AND YOUR FATHER) AGAIN WHERE IS THE MONEY GIVING TO ROP GONE NO ANNUAL REPORT ON
FINANCES,NO MEETINGS HELD,NO EXPENESES EXPLAINED
OFFICES OPENED ALLOVER IRELAND NO EXPLANATION ON
SALARIES OR PERKS,
TO ME THIS IS A TOTAL RIP OFF FOR THE BOYS RUNNING THESE OFFICES AND THEIR CRONIES.
YOU MENTIONED THE HSE SAYING THEY APPOINTED YOU
THERE NEVER WAS AN ANOUNCEMENT OF YOU GETTING ON THE GRAVY TRAIN WHY!
THE MONIES THAT YOU AND YOUR CRONIES ARE GETTING
SHOULD BE FOR SURVIVERS NOT TO KEEP ALL YOUR CARTELS GOING.
YOU WONT PULL THE WOOL OVER MY EYES WITH YOUR FANCY TALK AND LIES THE LOT OF YE SHOULD BE ASHAMED IT WAS BAD ENOUGH BEEN ABUSED BY THE INDUSTRIAL SCHOOLS BUT WHEN OUR OWN TRY TO RIP US OFF ENOUGH IS ENOUGH
ONLY FOR THE LIKES OF MOSSIE WHO IS NOT AFRAID TO OPEN HIS MOUTH AND QUESTION YOU ON YOUR ANTICS
AND LIES WE WOULD ALL BE IN THE DARK ON WHAT IS
HAPPENING IN THAT HELL HOLE CALLED RIGHT OF PLACE MAY GOD FORGIVE THE LOT OF YE
Well at least now we know who you are . QUESTION wHAT ARE YOUR QUALIFICATIONS. and what is this system of healing . i have only heard about it on the site .you know michael mossie must have his reasons for such anger.if you could explain to us why you as a dependent of a surviver think that your ideas of what we need are so different from ours. you have mentioned the fishing or angling progect that people make inquiries is normal it doesnt mean anything. if you are so interested in survivers then why do you react as if its upsetting to you to be asked questions by survivers on these sites.there souldnt be the closed attitude that you and your dad show towardes us . you know its no help at all to people who had to leave ireland. your framework makes it impossable for all survivers to take part but we are helping to pay your salery. public opinion does not know this. we are not an industrie for you to base your future on.if you need to feel useful collect stamps that way you will cause less harm. you know we all have feelings
Michael if One has a question would we have to fill out a form or give all our details ie what child prison we were in, how long, ect ,then we would be on your list??? I tried getting help many years ago and was bullied ,noone wanted to know ,I had to go to the salvation Army and pay them also a private company to try and find my siblings. There has been NO help ,the only help we have had is Paddys web site and Robert Northall’S SHAME OF IRELAND. in order that we can air our hurt PARHAPS FIND A SIBLING OR COUSIN ON THE SITE WHICH HAS HAPPENED.and find out what is going on.i LOST A FORTUNE THROUGH BEEN BULLIED BY A SO CALLED GROUP LEADER AND HER FRIENDS ,WHEN i WAS AT MY MOST VULNERABLE HAVING JUST COME OUT OF HOSPITAL,THEY DID NOT WANT TO KNOW AND THAT WAS 10 YEARS AGO AND THAT SO CALLED GROUP LEADER HAS BEEN GETTING HUGE FUNDING IN OUR NAME WHICH ONLY THAT PERSON AND THEIR CLOSE FRIENDS AND FAMILY HAVE BENIFITED FROM THAT. I WOULD NEVER TRUST ANYONE GROUPS EVER AGAIN.I WAS LEFT OUT IN THE COLD REALLY SUFFERING ALONE . AND STILL HAVE NOT FOUND MY SIBLINGS.MOSSIE HAS A RIGHT TO AIR HIS VIEWS AND QUESTIONS IT SOUNDS LIKE YOU ARE HAVING A GO AT HIM TO ME NONE OF US HAVE HAD ANY JUSTICE SO FAR.I DONT KNOW WHO YOU ARE >SO I ASK >WHO ARE YOU??????
The reason as to why I am commenting on this website is to dissuade anyone who is persuaded by the absolutely unfounded allegation of Nepotism and the disgraceful way this treats my own abilities and work that I have and will continue to do for Survivors in my area.
I also want to clear the air surrounding some of Mossie’s comments as they are without foundation and could be construed as slanderous. I can understand questions being raised, but I can not understand accusations being made that have no rational reasoning behind them.
I will also reiterate that I am leaving these comments from a personal point of view and they do not represent the views of ROP Second Chance.
To Mossie, let me address the number of incorrect assumptions and unfair comments that you have made:
1) I was never appointed by my father into my position in ROP, but I was assigned the post based on my qualifications and previous experience by two representatives. They were one from the HSE and the other from the VEC. In fact whilst I had my interview and the discussions that took place thereafter, my father was not involved. As a direct result he had no say in the decision. Are you trying to say that both the VEC and the HSE are incapable of making a decision fairly and based on the facts that they had in front of them?
2) I am sure Mr.William McAllister would like to read of your accusations, which are unfounded, when it was a member of the HSE who decided on who would take up the new positions.
3) It is true to make the case that I will never feel the hurt that each survivor on this planet has. The pain they live through each and every day is something any one who has not experienced this can never truly understand. However I have lived through the pain and effects this has had on my loved ones lives, I have seen the devastation at first hand that this has created, just as all dependents and family members have. So do you mean to say our comments and opinions are not valid? Be careful how you say things Mossie as it may lead to alienating the familys of survivors who actively comment on these websites and have an important contribution to make into the future.
4)Each and every member of ROP (Survivors) and their family’s were invited to apply for the positions available, and as such each survivor had as much chance as any to get the positions. However after the lessons of the past, it did not matter whether you were a survivor or a dependent, the most qualified person got the job. Which i’m sure you would agree with?
5) I am no way a spokesperson for the girl in ROP Cork and knowing her she is more then capable to speak for herself. However I cannot allow such a comment to go without correction. I was aware that she has been working in the office for quite some time and as such has a great affinity with many of the survivors who attend ROP Cork. SO much so that I am aware of at least 6 Survivors who actually lobbied on her behalf to say they felt she would be excellent at the job.
6)The Angling club, was an idea from a survivor who phoned the office and asked for it to be set up. Infact there has been many survivors who have rang to get information on it and participate.
7)The Labh Healing center is run by a fellow Survivor who generously and free of charge set this center up, to support survivors who wanted an opportunity to relax or try and escape in a non judgmental environment. To say that it is a scam is nothing short of disrespectful to the gentleman who runs this.
I would urge you to show fairness on a fellow survivor who has done nothing but try and help survivors in a way he saw fit.
8) I have already had, in the Waterford office many calls of support and even members looking at re-engaging with ROP as a result of the changes that were taking place. I have even had a number of phone calls and visits from people who wanted to join ROP for the very first time.
9) My skills and qualifications were judged by professionals from the VEC and the HSE and I stand by their judgment to place me in a position that I am both qualified for and so passionate about – Helping Survivors.
So much so Mossie that I would even urge you (if you are in the Waterford/ Eastern Area) to contact me if you ever need support or help with anything – thats what I am here for.
However I would plead with you that if you have anger towards something/somebody or an organization then that is your right. If you have issues with something that is your right but I would stress not to leave slanderous allegations WITHOUT FOUNDATION.
My role is to help survivors and their families, to advocate on their behalf for Housing, Welfare Education, Social Inclusion amongst others and this is what I remember 7 days a week.
To summarize, it is slanderous and disrespectful, without foundation, to insinuate that I received the position because of nepotism. It is unfairly undermining the job that I am here to do and does not help the many visits and callers I have already helped in my area.
I hope people on this site can understand the above points and do not listen to incorrect assumptions from Mossie as they are completely incorrect. I would urge anyone on this website to contact any of the offices if they have a question or need support and judge for themselves.
It is simply to important an issue to live off hear say.
Hi Mossie, good to see your(revised)comment back, a very easy mistake to make, Mr Walsh senior and Mr Walsh junior led us a fine merry dance on the Shame of Ireland
Micheal said,However as a dependent of a survivor who has several relatives who are members of right of place
Family concern???
Did you also notice on this newsletter the heading?
Applications for membership
This has to be a first, we have to ensure they delete all the illegally held membership and speak only on behalf of those who HAVE filled in a valid membership form
Suggest everyone send emails to the new Government with their concerns, I have sent several this week and have had one reply so far …. Kay
HI JAMES, SORRY FOR THE DELAY IN ANSWERING. I’M NOT SURE WHO’S IDEA IT WAS TO START THIS FISHING CAPER. PROBABLY SOMEONE IN RIGHT OF PLACE SUDDENLY GOT A BRAINWAVE, BUT MAY I SAY NOT A VERY GOOD ONE, IT’S MOST LIKELY TO BENEFIT SOMEONE IN RIGHT OF PLACE, AND CERTAINLY NOT THE SURVIVOR.
THINK ABOUT IT, WHAT SURVIVOR, AND MOST ARE NOW AGED PEOPLE, WOULD WANT TO JOIN AN ANGLING CLUB AT THEIR AGE? HOW DID THEY COME UP WITH THE IDEA OF AN ANGLING CLUB IN THE FIRST PLACE? I BET, NOT ONE SURVIVOR WAS EVEN ASKED? ACTUALLY I KNOW, NO ONE WAS ASKED.
I TOOK DOWN MY LAST COMMENT, AS I GOT A FEW ITEMS INCORRECT IN IT. SORRY ABOUT THAT. HOWEVER I HAVE RE SUBMITTED THE COMMENT AGAIN, WITH THE PROPER CORRECTIONS. ONCE AGAIN, SORRY FOR THE MISTAKES.
HOWEVER, ASSISTING SURVIVORS IS NOT ONE OF THEIR BEST POINTS, WHEN YOU MENTION HELP, YOU WILL BE LEFT ON YOUR OWN, HENCE HIM NOT GETTING BACK TO YOU.
YOU HIT THE NAIL ON THE HEAD JIMMY, WHEN YOU POINTED OUT MR WALSH HAD SAID THE GOVERNMENT SHOULD SHARE OUT THE ( 110 ) MILLLION, TO THE SURVIVORS, AND ON THE OTHER HAND HE ( CLEARLY STATES ) IN HIS FEBRUARY NEWSLETTER THAT, THEYCLEARLY WANT THE BULK OF THE RELIGIOUS CONTRIBUTION’S RETAINED, AS A SO CALLED TRUST FUND.
HE HAS STATED THAT HE WANTS, WHAT THE SURVIVORS WANT, AND CLAIMS TO US ALL, THAT IS WHAT HE IS FIGHTING FOR, BUT ON THE OTHER HAND HE HAS DIFFERENT IDEAS FOR THE REMAINDER OF THE CONTRIBUTIONS.
THIS ALONE TELLS US ALL, WHERE MR WALSH AND HIS FOLLOWERS PREFERENCES LIE. THEY WANT A TRUST FUND. HE HAS STATED THIS CLEARLY IN HIS NEWSLETTER THIS MONTH. DOES HE REALLY THINK ALL SURVIVORS ARE STUPID OR WHAT? MR BARRY THOUGHT SO TOO, AND LOOK WHERE THAT GOT HIM.
I HAVE PUT NUMEROUS QUESTIONS TO MR WALSH ON THIS SITE. DOES ANYONE SEE HIM ANSWERING ANY OF THOSE QUESTIONS? ( NO ) WHY, BECAUSE HE KNOWS I AM ASKING ALL THE RIGHT QUESTIONS. HE WONT GIVE ME AN ANSWER, BUT THAT IN ITSELF SPELLS GUILT. ISN’T THAT CORRECT MR WALSH.
WHEN ARE YOU GOING TO CALL YOUR FIRST MEETING OF YOUR ( SO CALLED MEMBERS? ) I AM TELLING YOU SIR, THAT THE DATABASE YOU HOLD IS TOTALLY AND UTTERLY ILLEGAL. I BET THERE ARE NAMES ON THAT DISC THAT ALREADY SHOULD HAVE BEEN REMOVED, BUT HAVE NOT.
UNTIL YOU RESPOND TO SURVIVORS SIR, I WILL CALL YOU A LIAR. YOU ARE AFRAID TO HOLD A MEETING, AND CONFRONT YOUR ( SO CALLED MEMBERSHIP ) IN CASE PEOPLE ASK YOU. HOW THEIR NAMES AND ADDRESSES HAPPENED TO BE ON YOUR DATABASE, WITHOUT THEIR PROPER CONSENT.
HOW DID YOU OBTAIN THESE NAMES MR WALSH? I ASK YOU AGAIN. I ASKED THE PREVIOUS DICTATOR THE SAME QUESTIONS, ONLY TO BE MET WITH THE VERY SAME CONTEMPT AS YOU ARE SHOWING TO SURVIVORS MR WALSH.
AND YES JIMMY, THE GROUP IS INDEED RUNNING ON EMPTY, AS YOU SO PUT IT, REGARDING THE MEMBERSHIP THEY ALLEGE THEY HAVE, AND ARE INDEED IN THERE FOR THE SOLE PURPOSE OF FEATHERING THEIR OWN NEST’S. YES THEY HAVE EVERYTHING TO HIDE, AND AS LONG AS THEY DONT HAVE TO ANSWER QUESTIONS, THEY WILL SURVIVE FOREVER. SO I WOULD URGE EVERYONE TO KEEP UP THE PRESSURE ON RIGHT OF PLACE, UNTIL SUCH TIME AS TO HAVE THEIR QUESTIONS ANSWERED.
After getting himself appointed ’Chairman’ of the ‘ Board of Directors’ of ‘Right of Place’; with unlimited expenses, is there no end to this Mr. Michael Walsh’s greed.
He has now appointed his ( Son ) Outreach Worker, for the Waterford Eastern region of Right of Place, at a starting Salary of €26,000 per annum. (As per his latest newsletter),
How can the Chairman of the Board of Directors, of a Charitable company; now appoint his SON as a salaried worked for that Charity. This Smells of Gross Nepotism. Please explain Mr. Walsh??
It is written into the Company’s Articles (copy to be had by anyone), that no remuneration is to be paid to any of the Directors sitting on the board, YET, in blatant disregard of the Company Articles, the Chairman now decides to use his Influence to have his SON engaged as a salaried employee.
When will these questionable, governance practices cease Mr. Walsh?
Is the HSE now funding Family members of the Board of Directors to, work for the company?
The Survivors would consider this to be very dodgy governance practices; or do they even know?
Please read this Mr. William McCallister (HSE ) or better still, I will send you a copy. After all it is public money we are dealing with here.
Mr Noel C. Barry was able to pull the wool over the last CEO Fund master, but not this time.
There is also an Outreach Worker appointed, inside, in the office of Right of Place, who is not even a Survivor.
Is the company going to continue to give jobs away to people who are not Survivors, ( His Son, and the young lady in the office ) when there are plenty of qualified Survivors in the organization who are desperately looking for work.
The young lady in question is studying at the moment to be a social worker.
Therefore she has not got the qualifications or skills necessary to perform Outreach Work for Survivors.
How can she perform Outreach Work sitting inside in an office?
I believe her father is a great drinking buddy of Noel C. Barry.
I wonder, if indeed the other two remaining members of The New Board of Directors realize, that the remaining Family members of The Chairman may usurp their positions on The Board.
In the eyes of the Law, (Ignorance) is no excuse.
Are they now going to apply for Jobs as, (Outreach Officers?)
I see from your February Newsletter yesterday, you intend to start an Angling Club for your Members. What Members? You don’t have any. You say the reason you are doing this is because, ye have noticed, that there are no facilities of a Social Nature, that members can avail of within (Right of Place, Second Chance.
Perhaps if you held a General Meeting, Mr Walsh, Survivors might be able to get to know one another. I really done see how your Angling Club is going to help? Tell me, have you asked Survivors if they would like to start a Club?Or are you TELLING them, that’s what you are organizing?
Can you tell your (So Called Members) Mr Walsh, what qualifications does your Local area, Right of Place workers have, to deal with the Issues Survivors might have. Please let us know. It is of the (UTMOST IMPORTANCE)
“You also stated in your most recent Newsletter that, Right of place Second Chance, also make the case that- not only should the (110) million be handed over to Survivors immediately, but that the (450) million which the Church is being asked to hand over to The State as payment for the Redress which has already being paid out- should in fact be used as a Health/ Welfare Support Aid for Survivors, to aid us in our ill health, and support us and our Dependants in our time of need, so that we can live with Dignity, and die in peace”. How very presumptuous of you Mr Walsh, to intonate that we will die in peace, or indeed that we lack Dignity. Please chose your words carefully.
YOUR FEBRUARY NEWSLETTER IS BOTH INCORRECT, AND MISLEADING.
AT NO TIME WHATSOEVER HAVE THE CHURCH MADE ANY OFFER OF REPARATION TO SURVIVORS FOR CRIMES COMMITTED BY THEM, SO YOUR ASSERTION IN YOUR NEWSLETTER, THAT THE CHURCH HAS BEEN ASKED TO HAND OVER ( 450 MILLION EURO ) IS COMPLETELY FALSE SIR.
This Sir is (NOT) what Survivors have asked for. You obviously are Not Listening to the Survivors at all, and how can you know what they want, if you never met them.
I see, you are also Canvassing now for The Lamb Healing facility, another Scam no doubt. You tell us there is no demand for money, and you tell us you Discreetly left Twenty-Five Euros, as an act of Goodwill? But you Discreetly printed the fact that you left (Euro25). Not very discreet, is it Mr Walsh? I suppose you will reclaim that (25 Euro) in your Expenses?
never has any of these groups ever approached me and asked me if I wanted to sign as a member and i’m sure their are thousands of survivors that have not been approached and asked to sign to these groups giving them permission to represent them, these groups are i illegal until they are able to prove otherwise. the are conning the Government out of millions of Euro’s and can the show where the money has been spent,can the heck, shame on the governments for allowing this to happen and for believing these groups when they say the represent the survivors.
I for one have had enough of all the tripe being spouted by these groups and government and I am considering going on hunger strike outside a prominent building in Dublin this year any support would be appreciated.Please check comments on this page for updates.
I remember a few years ago, can’t remember the exact date when Noel Barry a solicitor and his mob came to a meeting of right of place her in England which Tom Cronin was chairman. Noel Barry tried to force the committee to resign on the grounds that right of place in england had no right to exist and that their should be only one right of place and that was Noel Barry’s right of place in Cork,Ireland, Mr Barry was told where to go and take his mob with him and was very lucky he was’nt lynched. I am not a member of right of place but i’ll bet any body that my name is on their list in Cork ROP.
Mossie, is the new fishing club Mr Walsh’s idea to hook in new member’s?
Not very long ago, i received a letter from this same Mr Walsh, assuring me that he was not paid a wage, that he was a family man, with Children, and was doing all this ROP work, with out any pay, except expences! He actually asked me if i begrudged him those expence’s, and i said i did, as when i explained why i could not travel from Brighton to London ,at his request, in order to cast a vote, but would do ,if he would assist me with the travel and meal cost the day would entail, my letter was ,needless to say ,not answered!
So now it seem’s he has gone from a pennyless family man , to a 26,000 euro wage a year ,plus expence’s, off the back’s of Survivor’s he claim’s to represent.The mind boggle’s!
Their recent newsletter, written with fancy word’s, add insult to injury, for all genuine Survivor’s, it is very apparent that while they say the Government should share out the 110 million , they clearly want the bulk of the Religious Contribution’s retained , in order to maintain and fund their fancy job’s and life style’s, and ensure a secure future for all Group’s, again, at the expence of ALL Survivor’s!
Mossie, the letter/report you intend sending to Mr McCallister, HSE, please also send copy’s to Jennifer Hough at the Examiner, and also to Bruce Arnold at the Independant, and as many other media you can think of.
These Group’s are running on empty, regarding membership, they claim to have, and clearly out to feather their own nest’s,and irrespective of who they walk on in their venture’s!
They are not answering question’s, they have a lot to hide, and i would not be surprised to learn that they are breaking many law’s, such as fraud and deception.
This new Government must wake up and listen to the view’s of ALL Genuine Survivor’s,and respect their request’s to investigate all these Group’s , and suspend all funding, until they are satisfied as to who are Genuine, and who are not.
I listened in yesterday to the pledge’s, promise’s etc, made from the new Taoiseach, Enda Kenny, and he said he was making a covenant to put matter’s right for all the Country and it’s people, so i fired of an email to remind him that we are part and parcel of that covenant, with a long sad history of Abuse and Suffering, and well overdue having our situation addressed, for once and for all, and also reminded him that he and Mr Gilmore promised us , before the election’s ,that they would be here for all Survivor’s,
TO DO JUSTICE FOR US ALL.
With the prospect of the Pope’s visit to Ireland next year, this new Government indeed have an opportunity to address all Irish Survivor’s throughout the world, and put the entire matter to bed, and in doing so, highlight the fact that they , the Religious, and State, are indeed sorry for the damage that so many Children of Holy Ireland suffered!
The majority of Survivor’s , living all over the world now, are in their elder year’s, and simply want redress, so they can live out the remainder of their live’s in some degree of comfort, They dont want Group’s that do not represent them, they want to manage their own live’s, and take care of their family’s. They dont want Group’s claiming funding, off the back’s of their suffering’s!
All the survivers that have signed for paddy doyle to be our voice are alive. this we do know. How many hundreds on the other official groupsare aware of anything. Not many apparently. Otherwise there would have been a lot more people present at the church for the redemption fiasco.
Agree with you Mossie, our question’s will never be answered, but i am pleased that their are folk, professional and otherwise, who also view this fine Site of Paddy’s,just as ,no doubt, Mr Walsh does!
It is only a matter of time, when these same folk, will see that Survivor’s are simply asking valid question’s, but getting no answer’s, and in effect, will expose these Group’s for their sinister behaviour , and bring about their downfall.
THE ONLY THING IS ROB. HE WONT ANSWER, BECAUSE HE KNOWS DAMNED WELL THAT I AM HITTING A NERVE. HE KNOWS MY QUESTIONS ARE VALID. THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN SURVIVORS START TO ASK QUESTIONS. THEY CLOSE RANKS, AND SIMPLY IGNORE THEM. THAT WAY THEY WILL GIVE NOTHING AWAY.
HE SAID IN A PREVIOUS ARTICLE, HE DID NOT NEED THE PERMISSION OF ( 1,750 ) MEMBERS HE CLAIMS HE HAS, TO SPEAK ON THEIR BEHALF. THE FACT IS, HE HAS NO MANDATE FROM ANY SURVIVOR, BECAUSE HE HAS NOT ASKED ANYONE IF HE CAN REPRESENT THEM, OR HE NEVER HELD A MEETING, TO ASK SURVIVORS FOR PERMISSION. HE OBVIOUSLY TOOK OVER THE ILLEGAL DATABASE FRON HIS PREVIOUS DICTATOR BARRY, WITH THE HELP FROM SOME SO CALLED BARRISTER, AND CONTINUED WHERE HE HAD LEFT OFF.
SO YOU CAN CLEARLY SEE, THAT NOTHING HAS CHANGED IN LOWER GLANMIRE ROAD, EXCEPT THE DICTATOR.
WE WILL ASK YOU AGAIN MR WALSH, TO TRUTHFULLY ANSWER THE QUESTIONS THAT ARE BEING PUT TO YOU. IGNORING THEM WILL ONLY ADD TO THE MYSTERY BEHIND YOUR ILLEGAL LEADERSHIP, AND WILL ONLY PROMPT MORE QUESTIONS. I WONDER WHERE YOU LEARNED THAT FROM???????????
PERSONALLY I KNOW YOU WONT ANSWER, BECAUSE YOU KNOW I AM TELLING THE TRUTH. I WAS A PAIN IN NOEL BARRYS SIDE, AND LIKEWISE, I WILL BE A THORN IN YOU’RS.
Thank You Mossie for addressing the Above with Such Clarity!
Your Questions are Clear; and a direct answer would put this matter to rest once and for all?
We don’t need Groups FULL STOP,SO FAR IN THE LAST 12 YEARS THOSE GROUPS HAVE BEEN TAKING ADVANTAGE OF SURVIVORS THEY RECIEVED MASSIVE FUNDING IN OUR NAME ,WHEN MOST LIVING SURVIVORS DON’T LIVE IN IRELAND AND MANY HAVE BEEN TO FRIGHTENED TO EVER RETURN.SO FAR THOSE GROUPS HAVE GIVING NOTHING BACK >i MEAN >NOTHING< WE WANT TO BE COMPANSATED AS INDIVIDUALS FULL STOP
ROP WILL NEVER SEND OUT LETTERS, OR PAPERS TO BALLOT ITS SO CALLED MEMBERS AND GIVE THEM A SAY AS TO WHAT THEY WANT. BECAUSE BY DOING SO, THEY WOULD BE ADMITTING THAT THEY DO INDEED HOLD THE SAME ( ILLEGAL ) DATABANK HELD BY HIS PREDECESSOR, MR NOEL BARRY, THIS IS THE REASON WHEN YOU ASK A PROBING QUESTION, YOU GET NO RESPONSE.
THEY HAVE NEVER HAD A MEETING OF THEIR SO CALLED MEMBERS. I WAS NEVER ASKED TO SIGN UP TO MEMBERSHIP OF ROP. SO HOW DID THEY GET MY DETAILS FOR THEIR ( ILLEGAL ) DATABANK??
FIRST THEY SAID THEIR MEMBERSHIP WAS ( 1,500 ) LATELY IT ROSE TO ( 1,750 ) MEMBERS. WHERE DID THEY GET THESE NAMES FROM??
NOBODY I KNOW HAS EVER BEEN ASKED TO ( OPT IN ) OR ( OPT OUT ) OF MEMBERSHIP. HOW ON EARTH CAN THEY CLAIM TO REPRESENT ALL OF THESE PEOPLE, WHEN THEY HAVE NEVER EVEN HELD A MEETING WITH THEM??
ALL OF THESE QUESTIONS NEED TO BE ASKED, AND MR WALSH SHOULD BE COMPELLED TO ANSWER THEM. MR NOEL BARRY DID EXACTLY THE SAME THING AS MR WALSH IS DOING NOW. NOTHING HAS CHANGED.
THERE WAS SO MUCH PRESSURE PUT ON MR BARRY, THE HSE HAD HIM STAND ASIDE, ILLEGAL ELECTIONS WERE HELD, AND MR WALSH CAME OUT OF NOWHERE, AND STOOD INTO MR BARRY’S SHOES.
HE THEN SAYS HE SPEAKS FOR 1,750 MEMBERS. WHERE DID HE GET THEM FROM?? NOEL BARRY. THE HSE NEEDS TO WAKE UP BIG TIME AND START ASKING QUESTIONS, AS TO ( WHO THEY ARE FUNDING ) AND WHERE IS ALL THIS FUNDING IS GOING.
HOW MANY STAFF DOES RIGHT OF PLACE CLAIM TO HAVE?? THE LAST I HEARD IT WAS 14, OR 15. WELCOME HOUSE IS NOW CLOSED, SO HOW CAN THEY HAVE 15 STAFF ON THE PAYROLL?? WHAT DO THEY DO IN THERE.
WE ALL HAVE A RIGHT TO KNOW. YOUR SO CALLED MEMBERSHIP, HAVE EVERY RIGHT TO KNOW JUST WHO SPEAKS ON THEIR BEHALF, ESPECIALLY IF THOSE PEOPLES NAMES, AND ADDRESSES, HAVE BEEN ADDED TO A DATABASE WITHOUT THE PRIOR CONSENT OF A SURVIVOR.
YOU CANNOT JUST TAKE OVER AS CHAIRPERSON OF AN ORGANIZATION MR WALSH, AND START TO NEGOTIATE FOR SURVIVORS WITHOUT FIRSTLY OBTAINING A MANDATE FROM THOSE PEOPLE TO DO SO.
AND FURTHERMORE, SAYING NOTHING, AND KEEPING QUIET ABOUT THESE ISSUES, WILL NOT GET YOU OUT OF THE LIMELIGHT. YOU ARE READING THIS SITE MR WALSH, WE DO KNOW THAT. NO MATTER WHAT PAGE YOU SKIP TO, YOU WILL FIND ME THERE ALSO. SO ANSWER THE QUESTIONS, SURVIVORS ARE ASKING YOU. IS THAT TOO MUCH TO ASK??
YOU HAVE JUST WRITTEN THAT, YOU SIGNED THE PETITION WITH THE FULL SUPPORT OF YOUR ( BOARD OF DIRECTORS ) THIS SIR, IS A BLATANT LIE. YOU DID NOT CATEGORICALLY HAVE THE SUPPORT OF THE FULL BOARD OF DIRECTORS, IN FACT, THE BOARD OF DIRECTORS WERE NEVER EVEN CONSULTED OF YOUR INTENTIONS. MORE LIES LIES LIES.
SINCE WHEN, MR WALSH DID RIGHT OF PLACE HAVE 1,750 MEMBERS?? LIES YET AGAIN, YOUR LAST STATEMENT STATED THAT YOU HAD 1,500.
WHEN DID YOU LAST HOLD A MEETING OF RIGHT OF PLACE MR WALSH, WITH THE NEW BOARD OF DIRECTORS, AND THE MEMBERS YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO REPRESENT?? NEVER. MORE LIES LIES LIES.
THE MEMBERSHIP SIR, HAS NEVER BEEN CANVASSED BY YOU, OR THE NEW BOARD OF DIRECTORS ON ( ANY ) ISSUES WHATSOEVER. SO HOW CAN YOU PURPORT TO REPRESENT ANY SURVIVOR ON YOUR CREDENTIALS MR WALSH?? PLEASE EXPLAIN. NO DOUBT YOU WILL DO LIKE YOU PREDECESSOR MR BARRY DID, AND IGNORE MY QUESTIONS.
LET ME PUT IT TO YOU MR WALSH. HAS THERE EVER BEEN A MEMBERSHIP MEETING HELD BY YOU, OR ONE ORGANISED BY YOU, OR YOUR NEW BOARD OF DIRECTORS, SINCE YOU JUST SO HAPPENED TO DRIFT INTO THE POSITION YOU NOW HOLD ILLEGALLY?? I THINK THE ANSWER TO THAT QUESTION IS YET ANOTHER BIG ( NO )
I PUT IT TO YOU ALSO MR WALSH, THAT ALL DECISIONS ABOUT SURVIVORS, FOR SURVIVORS, ARE BEING MADE BY ONE PERSON, AND ONE PERSON ONLY ( YOU MR WALSH )
WE ARE NOW UNFORTUNATLY CONFRONTED BY YET A GREATER DICTATOR THAN MR NOEL C BARRY, AND WE ARE WORSE OFF NOW THAN WE EVER WERE.
THE MEMBERSHIP OF RIGHT OF PLACE, HAS ONCE AGAIN, NEVER BEEN GIVEN A CHANCE TO REGISTER THEIR VIEWS. THEY ARE NOT BEING ASKED, AND WITH YOU LOT IN CHARGE, ( WONT BE ASKED ) FOR THEIR VIEWS TO BE CONSIDERED BY YOU, OR YOUR BOARD OF DIRECTORS.
ALL DECISIONS ARE BEING MADE BY ONE MAN, YET AGAIN, WITHOUT AUTHORITY, BECAUSE HE WILL NOT MEET WITH THE MEMBERSHIP TO DISCUSS WITH THE SURVIVORS AT A GENERAL MEETING. AT LEAST MR NOEL BARRY HAD THE DECENCY TO CALL THE MEETING, AT LEAST HE WENT THROUGH THE MOTIONS.
YOU MR WALSH, HAVE NEVER TAKEN ANY ACTION. YOU LEFT IT TO HONORABLE PEOPLE TO FIGHT THE BATTLE OF ACCOUNTABILITY, BEFORE YOU CRAWLED OUT OF THE WOODWORK TO STAB THOSE ( HONORABLE PEOPLE ) OF YOUR FIRST BOARD IN THE BACK.
PLEASE BORE US WITH THE DETAILS OF HOW YOU BETRAYED YOUR FELLOW BOARD MEMBERS BY STABBING THEM IN THE BACK, WHEN THEY ASKED FOR YOUR SUPPORT ON ISSUES OF ACCOUNTABILITY.
YOUR MEMBERSHIP NUMBERS ARE ABOUT AS TRUTHFUL AS YOUR ACCOUNT OF WHY ( 2 ) OF YOUR PREVIOUS BOARD MEMBERS RESIGNED. IS THERE NO LIMITS AS TO HOW LOW YOU WILL STOOP, AND LIE SIR TO ACHIEVE YOUR AIMS??
YOU SAY SOME DECISION WAS MADE WITHOUT YOUR AUTHORITY ON YOUR BEHALF?? WHAT AUTHORITY ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT, AND WHO MANDATED YOU TO HOLD SUCH AUTHORITY ON BEHALF OF ANY SURVIVOR?? ALSO YOU SAY YOU WERE INFURIATED, ALONG WITH OTHERS, YOU SHOULD NOT HAVE BEEN, AS IT IS NOT YOUR BUSINESS TO BE. WE ARE ALL EARS.
PLEASE TELL US ALL, MR WALSH, WHAT ACTION DID YOU TAKE?? WE ARE ALL DYING TO HEAR ALL ABOUT WHAT YOU DID?? DONT WORRY ABOUT BORING US ALL, WE REALLY WANT TO KNOW WHAT ACTION YOU SUPPOSIDLY TOOK??
YOU NOW SAY, AND I WILL QUOTE YOUR VERY WORDS ON THIS ONE MR WALSH, “ BUT SUFFICE TO SAY, WE ARE NOW A NEW GROUP, WITH A NEW MODEL OF SERVICE TO SURVIVORS, AND A DESIRE TO OBTAIN THE BEST THERE IS ON BEHALF OF SURVIVORS – AND ONLY ( WHEN WE HAVE A MANDATE TO DO SO. )
CORRECT ME SIR IF I MISINTERPRETED YOUR LAST STATEMENT, BECAUSE THEY ARE YOUR VERY OWN WORDS. WHAT YOU HAVE ACTUALLY STATED IS, YOU DO NOT HAVE A MANDATE AT THIS TIME, WHICH I TOTALLY AGREE WITH. BECAUSE MR WALSH, YOU MOST CERTAINLY ( DO NOT ) HAVE A MANDATE, AS NO ONE HAS GIVEN YOU ONE.
I DONT KNOW WHERE YOU GOT THE IMPRESSION, THAT YOU DID NOT NEED THE ( SUPPOSIDLY ) 1,750 MEMBERS YOU HAVE ON YOUR ILLEGALLY HELD DATABASE TO SIGN . YOU NEVER CANVASSED THIS ISSUE AT ANY MEETING.
YOU SAY ALSO, THAT THEY, THE MEMBERS INDICATED THAT THEY ARE AGAINST THIS TRUST FUND IN PRINCIPLE, THEREFORE YOU HAVE THE MAJORITY OF YOUR MEMBERS, DEMAND THAT THIS TRUST FUND BE REJECTED IN ITS PRESENT FORM, SO IN FACT YOU HAVE AN ADDITIONAL
( 1, 750 ) VOTES WITH YOUR SIGNATURE. YOU HAVE NO AUTHORITH WHATSOEVER TO MAKE A COMMENT, OR STATEMENT LIKE THAT.
YOU SIR, ARE LIVING ON CLOUD CUCKOO LAND, AND ITS HIGH TIME YOU LANDED, AND FACED REALITY. YOU HAVE NO MANDATE FROM SURVIVORS, END OF STORY.
COULD YOU TELL ME, BUT MORE SO, TELL ALL THE SURVIVORS, WHERE YOU GOT ALL THE NAMES, AND ADDRESSES OF ALL SURVIVORS YOU SAY YOU SPEAK ON BEHALF OF MR WALSH. BECAUSE IF YOU OBTAINED THAT DATABASE FROM YOUR DISGRACED PREDECESSOR, YOU ARE GUILTY OF AN OFFENCE.
ALSO, HOW WERE THOSE NAMES OBTAINED BY YOU, AND YOUR BOARD OF DIRECTORS, BECAUSE I THINK ALL SURVIVORS HAVE A RIGHT TO KNOW IF THEIR DETAILS WERE OBTAINED WITHOUT THEIR KNOWLEDGE, OR PERMISSION,
I FOUND OUT THAT MY DETAILS WERE HELD ON MR BARRY’S DATABASE, AND MAY I SAY, WITHOUT MY KNOWLEDGE, I SINCE HAD THEM REMOVED. IF MY PERSONAL DETAILS WERE ON THAT DATABASE, HOW MANY MORE SURVIVORS CREDENTIALS DO YOU HAVE, ( ILLEGALLY? )
NO DOUBT, IF THIS IS SO THE CASE SIR, YOU ARE OBTAINING FUNDING BY DECEPTION FROM THE HSE, ON BEHALF OF SURVIVORS, WITHOUT THEIR PERMISSION
DO YOU, MR WALSH, OR ANY OF YOUR BOARD OF DIRECTORS, HOLD ANY QUALIFICATIONS WHICH ARE REQUIRED TO DEAL WITH SURVIVORS AND THEIR PROBLEMS? HOW CAN YOU STATE YOU CAN HELP THEM? IN WHAT WAY CAN YOU DO THIS? WE ARE ALL ANXIOUSLY AWAITING YOUR ANSWER.
PAULINE, RIGHT OF PLACE WILL NEVER AGREE TO THAT. THEY WILL CLAIM DISCRETION AND CONFIDENTIALITY OF THEIR MEMBERS PERSONAL DETAILS. IN OTHER WORDS, THEY SIMPLY WONT TELL YOU. THIS IS HOW THEY GET OUT OF EVERYTHING. MR BARRY DID EXACTLY THE SAME THING. THE HSE NEEDS TO PROBE, AND INVESTIGATE THIS BEFORE THERE IS ANY ACCOUNTABILITY. UNTIL THEN, WE ARE BANGING OUR HEADS AGAINST A BRICK WALL.
CAN MR WALSH BE BELIEVED?? VERY DOUBTFUL. LOOK AT THE WAY HE TOLD EVERYONE ON THE EXAMINER NEWSPAPER RECENTLY HOW 2 OF HIS BOARD OF DIRECTORS HAD RESIGNED. THEY RESIGNED FOR PERSONAL REASONS HE STATED. ONE MAN IN QUESTION OF HIS BOARD TOLD US, THIS IS NOT WHY HE RESIGNED, PROVING ME WALSH TO BE NOTHING BUT A LIAR.
SO WHY SHOULD ANYONE TRUST HIM, OR BELIEVE ANYTHING THAT COMES OUT OF HIS MOUTH. MY OPINION, HE IS ANOTHER DICTATOR, LIKE THE LAST ONE MR NOEL C BARRY, AND NOTHING MORE, AND IS IN THERE FOR WHAT HE CAN GET OUT OF IT, NOTHING MORE.
THAT IS A VERY VALID POINT JIMMY. WE DONT KNOW WHAT NAMES THIS PERSON HAS ON THIS SO CALLED DATABASE HE ALLEGES HE HAS. WITH ALL THE MYTH SURROUNDING THIS TOPIC, I CANNOT FOR THE LIFE OF ME UNDERSTAND WHY THE HSE STILL CONTINUES TO FUND THIS SO CALLED GROUP, RIGHT OF PLACE SECOND CHANCE, AND ALL RELATED TO IT.
MY RECENT REQUEST FOR ANSWER’S ,ADDRESSED TO MR MICHAEL WALSH, WERE ,AS EXPECTED, IGNORED.
THIS , FOR ME , SUPPORT’S MUCH OF THE COMMENT’S OF MOSSE’S ABOVE, REGARDING THE ATTITUDE AND RESPONCE FROM ROP.
LIKE MYSELF , THERE ARE MANY SURVIVOR’S HERE AND ON SHAME OF IRELAND, THAT FOR YEAR’S HAVE BEEN ASKING QUESTION’S ABOUT ROP, IT’S SHADY BOARD, IT’S SHADY CHAIRPERSON, AND IT’S FUNDING, BUT ALL IGNORED. I AM PLEASED ALSO TO NOTE THAT I AM NOT THE ONLY PERSON WHO SUSPECT’S THAT THE MICHAEL WALSH ,WHO CLAIM’S RANK OF CHAIRMAN,ROP, AND THE MICHAEL WALSH, WHO CLAIM’S TO BE A DEPENDENT, ARE ONE AND THE SAME PERSON? COULD THIS BE A CASE OF BI-POLAR?
BIG DEAL FOR MR WALSH TO SIGN THE PETITION, ON BEHALF OF THE NEW BOARD. HOW DO YOU KNOW THE WHOLE BOARD WERE ASKED FOR THEIR OPINION, ALSO WHAT MEMBERS HAVE GIVEN HIM PERMISSION TO DO IT ON THEIR BEHALF? MR WALSH SIR ( DOES NOT HAVE A MANDATE )
YOU SEEM TO KNOW QUITE A LOT ABOUT MR WALSH SIR, WHAT ( INCORRECT INFORMATION ) AS YOU SO PUT IT HAS BEEN LEFT ON THIS SITE ABOUT HIM.
DID YOU FOLLOW ( THE SO CALLED ELECTIONS ) THIS MOB HELD DURING THE YEAR? I DOUBT IT, BECAUSE IF YOU DID, YOU WOULD NOT BE SINGING HIS PRAISES EVERY TIME YOU COMMENT ON THIS SITE, AND FOR YOUR INFORMATION, MR WALSH ( WAS NOT DEMOCRATICALLY ELECTED ) I STILL WONDER IF I, INDEED AM RESPONDING TO THE SAME ( MR WALSH? )
WHO ARE YOU SIR, TO QUESTION ANY SURVIVOR? AS I BELIEVE YOU TOLD ME AT ONE POINT THAT YOU ARE A DEPENDENT OF ONE. YOU SEEM TO BE PRAISING MR WALSH EVERY CHANCE YOU GET. DO YOU KNOW HIM PERSONALLY?? MOST PROBABLY YOU DO. AND MAYBE THEN AGAIN ( YOU ARE ) MR WALSH, PRAISING YOUR SELF FOR ALL YOU ARE DOING FOR SURVIVORS???
MR WALSH SIR, IS A CARBON COPY OF THE LAST DICTATOR, ( MR NOEL C BARRY ) AND THE NEW ( UNDEMOCRATICALLY ELECTED CHAIRMAN ) IS JUST A CONTINUATIONAN OF MR BARRY. THAT YOU CAN BE ASSURED OF.
WHAT ON EARTH DO YOU MEAN WHEN YOU SAY, WE HAVE ALREADY SEEN AND HEARD TRANSPARITY, THAT, ( THEY ) ARE OPENING SEVERAL NEW OFFICES IN LOCATIONS ACROSS IRELAND?? IT MOST CERTAINLY, DOES ( NOT ) LEAD TO GREATER TRANSPARANCY AND INFORMATION.
THE LAST THING SURVIVORS WANT AT THIS TIME IS MORE OFFICES THAT ARE RUN AND CONTROLLED BY DICTATORSHIP, AND ESPECIALLY ( RIGHT OF PLACE ) IN CASE YOU ARE NOT ALREADY AWARE, THERE ARE OFFICES IN THOSE NAMED PLACES, AND DO NOT WANT ANY MORE.
CAN YOU TELL ME SIR, WHAT HAS MR WALSH DONE SO FAR TO STOP THIS TRUST FUND FROM BEING IMPLEMENTED?? NOTHING I BET. ANYONE CAN SIGN A PETITION, THATS NO BIG DEAL, THAT DOES NOT SAY HE IS AN HONORABLE PERSON, HE CAN STILL HAVE HIS OWN REASONS FOR WANTING TO CONTROL THE WHOLE SHOW??
I WOULD NOT BE ONE BIT SURPRISED TO HEAR THAT MR BARRY, AND HIS COUNTERPARTS ARE STILL PULLING THE STRINGS BEHIND THE SCENES OF ( RIGHT OF PLACE ) IN FACT I AM ALMOSE CERTAIN OF IT, AND ITS ( MY OPINION ) THAT MR WALSH WAS INSERTED INTO THE POSITION HE HOLDS AS NEW CHAIRMAN OF THE NEW BOARD OF DIRECTORS, TO TAKE THE PRESSURE OFF MR NOEL C BARRY, AND THE HSE. AND I DONT CARE WHAT YOUR OPINIONS ARE ON THAT. WE ARE NOT STUPID OR BLIND. WE WERE BLIND FOR LONG ENOUGH.
WHY ARE THERE SOME OF THE OLD REGIME STILL RUNNING THE SHOW IN THE RIGHT OF PLACE OFFICES IN THE LOWER GLANMIRE ROAD. YOU DID SAY, DID YOU NOT, THAT MR WALSH HELPED TO REMOVE MR NOEL C BARRY AND HIS CRONIES, IN YOUR PREVIOUS ENTRY TO THIS SITE?
I CAN ALSO ASSURE YOU SIR, SURVIVORS HAVE NOTHING TO REJOICE ABOUT WITH THIS PERSON RUNNING THE SHOW AT PRESENT, AS HE IS TARNISHED WITH THE SAME BRUSH AS HE PREDECESSOR MR NOEL C BARRY WAS. HE DID NOT TAKE OVER A BADLY RUN, AND BADLY ORGANIZED SURVIVOR GROUP AND HELPED TO CHANGE IT, BECAUSE THE ONLY THING SIR THAT HAS CHANGED IN RIGHT OF PLACE, IS THE ( DICTATOR ) AND I AM CERTAIN THAT A LOT OF SURVIVORS CAN NOW ACTUALLY SEE WHAT IS GOING ON HERE, AND IF I CAN IN ANY WAY HIGHTLIGHT THIS TO THE SURVIVORS, I WILL, AND WILL NOT BE SORRY FOR DOING SO.
YOU SIR, ARE OBVIOUSLY VERY BLIND IF AS YOU SAY, YOU NEVER REMEMBER SEEING ONE OF US CHALLENGE THE PREVIOUS REGIME. WE HAVE BEEN DOING EXACTLY THAT FOR THE PAST COUPLE OF YEARS NOW, AND THAT IS WHY WE HAVE MANAGED TO REMOVE THE LAST DICTATOR, AND MOST OF HIS CREW FROM THE POSITIONS THEY ONCE HELD. HOWEVER, WE ARE NOT FINISHED YET, AS WE ARE NOW BURDENED WITH YET ANOTHER, IF NOT WORSE DICTATOR THAN THE PREVIOUS ONE.
WE ARE NOT GOING TO SIT BACK, AS YOU SO PUT IT, AND ASK FOR CHANGE, WE ARE MAKING CHANGES, AND WILL CONTINUE TO DO SO, ON THAT YOU MAY BE WELL ASSURED.
AND TO FINISH, I AM CERTAIN THAT NO SURVIVOR WILL ACCHIEVE WHAT IS RIGHTFULLY THEIRS UNDER THE REGIME THAT IS SUPPOSIDLY RUNNING THE GROUP CALLED ( RIGHT OF PLACE ) AND YES OUR VOICES WILL BE HEARD, WHEN WE REMOVE ALL THESE PARASITES THAT, BY FORCE, TRY TO GOVERN BY THEIR MEANS, FOR THEIR OWN GRATIFICATION.
I would like to ask all survivors if you would please not leave The Regina Ceoli Mother and Baby Unit out of the equation whenever you happen to mention Magdalene Laundries and Bethany House, or other such like institutions, in relation to seeking justice.
I’ve been to the forefront all these years and not a single survivor has ever acknowledged the existence of the mother and baby unit.
I do really fail to understand why this is the situation, but sadly, it is the case.
It kind of crosses my mind every now and then, that, if survivors were really genuine, when they say that they are concerned about ‘all’ survivors, that they would not become exclusive whenever it suits them to be in situations of the aforementioned.
I have highlighted Magdalen Laundries and Bethany House for years on RateYourSolicitors. com
It’s a site of which I have hung out for years and have hits to the tune of over 176,706 AND 48, 110, respectively.
I have over these long years commented incessantly at too innumerable sites to mention all over the globe about institutional child abuse.
So survivors like me who have been incessantly crying out against the harsh winds should not be treated like strangers amongst those who were in industrial school institutions.
Last year I was at a survivor meeting in Dublin.
It was basically said to some attendees there, who wanted to speak at the podium, that it was not about ‘individual’ cases.
This, I should add, was at the tail end of the meeting.
I was gobsmacked as I listened on quietly.
I was inwardly fuming!
So utterly deflated!
How dare he, even think like that, I thought bubbling underneath!
Not only that, but they were not even given any media attention, as the cameras were turned off immediately after the high profile survivors had spoken.
The falsity and hypocrisy and the power struggle that goes on behind closed survivor doors is just mesmerizingly appalling.
Nevertheless, I bit my lip, maintained decorum and rationally approached a survivor leader, asking to be acknowledged into the future.
To me, it was so unreal in the first instance having to ask for help, because of having being outside the Dail for so long and banging my head against the granite wall.
Anyway, I was given every assurance and a handshake by the survivor in charge of the meeting and was told that I would be given help.
Soon after that, the very same survivor, who went to see the archbishop in Armagh, was talking to the media about the Magdalen Laundries.
There was not a mention of the mother and baby home.
I was absolutely livid.
Negative feelings poured out of me.
I thought – here was I, depending on someone who was only a few short years in the system.
You see – it was always assumed that the ones who were mostly to the forefront fighting the government on our behalf, were mostly those survivors who had spent only very short times in the institutions.
They had families, you see, and were street-wise as children in comparison to those who had been basically born into the system.
They were classed as having more wherewithal.
There was much ambivalence with child perambulator (lifers) survivors who went into the system.
We felt that we were the ones who were pushed into the background when it came to crucial dealings with the government.
The incident at the meeting confirmed to me, that we ‘individual’ survivors are inconsequential.
One has to approach bishops and the government oneself and not have to depend on prominent survivors who speak out of the side of their mouths.
There are oodles of survivors who have not got the skills to express themselves and they are being told to quietly or metaphorically STFU by some survivor leaders.
Some leaders have been closely working in cahoots with the last government and the latter has paid them handsomely to keep the likes of us quiet.
The government never wanted the apple-cart to be tumbled over and all the rotten apples to come pouring out.
It just could not handle it.
It looked to the groups to suppress us and keep the lid down.
The Pandora’s box must never be fully opened.
The Fine Gael government, the Labour Party, and Sinn Fein were absolutely disgusted at the way the last government treated me outside the Dail.
I have verbal evidence of this to back me up.
They were also well aware that most of the survivor groups who kept their distance from me, were mostly doing so, because they were mostly only eating the crumbs themselves off the Fianna Fail and coalition table.
The survivor groups depended on the government for survival and couldn’t be seen to be at odds with it – in supporting my campaign.
Utilitarianism Ruled!
They went against the grain.
Here is an example of Bethany House and The Regina Ceoli fighting for justice.
08/12/2005 – 16:14:53
Two victims of child abuse must have their cases addressed by the Residential Institutions Redress Board, it was claimed today.
Marie Therese O’Loughlin and Derek Linster have been refused a hearing by the board on the grounds that the state was not responsible for the institutions they lived in.
But the Labour Party said the Government had to extend the remit of the board before the three-year deadline for applications expired next week.
Micheal, you have this all wrong, the comments left here on Paddy’s site, on the numerous threads (would take forever to read all) and those left on the Shame of Ireland, are left with a free will
A large number of Survivor’s names on Right of Place membership, are not there of free will, most Survivor’s were conned into this (in the early days) just by attending meeting’s advertised in newspapers, regarding “Redress” names and address’s were then collected by asking all to sign an entry book, supposedly because of fire regulation, no mention of membership,
Has anyone ever filled in a ROP membership form? If so how many?
I believe this is very important don’t you?
How can an audit be done without proof of this?
How do they get charitable status without this?
How on earth did they ever get Government funding without this?
Micheal, if as you say you are only able to echo ROP, then will you ask the board members to respond? Surely they can speak for themselves…Kay
MICHAEL WALSH OF ROP SHOULD HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH SURVIVERS OR THE STATURTY FUND AS FAR AS I CAN SEE HE IS A BIGGER DICATOR THAN N BARRY, NO ANSWERS TO THE QUESTIONS ASK JUST A LOAD OF VERBAL
GIBBERISH AND LIES, HE SAID THAT 2 DIRECTORS RESIGNED ,A STATMENT IN THE CORK EXAMINER BY MR TOM BRENNAN (A FORMER DIRECTOR) SAID HE RESIGNED BECAUSE HE GOT NO HELP OR COOPORATION FROM WALSH
OR ANYONE ELSE IN ROP.
WHEN WAS THERE A MEETING CALLED BY HIM NEVER!!!!
COULD HE TELL ME HOW MANY MEMBERS OF ROP WITHDREW
THEIR NAMES AND DATA FROM ROP,HOW MANY DO THEY HAVE ON THEIR BOOKS.THE ONLY WAY WE WILL GET RID OF ROP IS EVERYONE SHOULD DEMAND THEIR NAMES AND DATA BE REMOVED AND GET CONFIRMATION IN WRITING.
MAY GOD FORGIVE THE LOT OF THEM FOR THE HURT AND SORROW AND HEARTBREAK THEY CAUSED SURVIVERS,FOR THEIR OWN SELF GREED
thanks d m w for your words. i felt a bit upset about being told that i have a negatif effect on the cause of survivers .But you know one one hand we were told that Sally does not believe in his plans but that never the less we should trust him with large sums of money.Ijust dont see the sense of it. Numbers and files thats what we have been to these groups for 10 years now .
To Dead man walking, your last comment is the very reason I try to give comments or opinions. It is heart breaking to hear any person say something like that and yet I no from many survivors I have met, you are not alone in feeling like this.
I can only say that the future WILL be brighter for you, with enough support and pressure this trust fund can be abolished. Only when survivors get adequately compensated, can some form of closure be breathed into many survivors lives. I for one will do anything I can to ensure this does happen.
To Kay, I understand your point, regarding the 377 comments, but you would have to agree many of those comments are repeat commenter’s and thus the figure of 377 does not accurately reflect the true number of actual people commenting.
All I want to ensure is that each and every Survivor this time has a say in what the change from the Trust Fund is. If (even 377) on this website decide what the future changes will be, does that not make US worse then the “leaders” of these groups as we would not have a mandate for ALL survivors. Remember even if 377 have commented, this is only circa 2.5% of survivors.
However I do echo your statements, I do not run Right of Place, and as such I can only agree with you to say that it would be very good to see each and every member sign the petition individually.
To Rob – as far as I had heard from speaking to members of ROP who are at the meetings to elect the new board, the idea of a Trust Fund came up. As far as I was told 100% rejected it in its current form. I can only guess then that since this New board was elected they are speaking on behalf of who elected them? Of course the idea of WHAT survivors want instead of the trust fund, would have to be negotiated before Mr.Walsh could claim his voice is the voice of 1750.
My take on it is this, the current Trust Fund was agreed and set up wrongfully by the leaders of these groups. Perhaps the easiest way to eliminate and get rid of trust fund is by using these very groups to tell them, the Trust Fund in its current form is NOT WANTED.
Surely the HSE/ Government read the papers and these websites, have realized that Right Of Place wanted to get rid of Noel Barry et al and now when a NEW board take over, they immediately reject the trust fund, that this rejection has to be a mandate from the survivors they represent?
Also Rob I commend both you and Paddy, for these websites, they are highly informative and give people an un prohibited forum to voice their opinions, this can only be good. I can only commend you for the work and effort that you put into your website, despite the obvious pressure that exist around you.
transparency ,honesty , consultation is what we survivors / victims need .agree with rob northalls suggestions .second in thanking albert . agree with pauline . take your points on board micheal . lets hope labour get in .i wont be holding my breath waiting for them to act in our interests but live in hope .we survivors/victims have been treated badly as children and with contempt as adults . i hope all those who contributed to our extra suffering realise were not fools and the system never took our brains .my name says how i feel daily .i just exsist i dont live
If the Right of Place are truly against the Trust Fund and want justice for Survivors, then you might suggest, that ALL members sign Paddy’s petition (above) with initials R.O.P next to their name for all to see. The board members of ROP will surely help the less able members to do this, they could even organise a paper petition with exact wording as the above, for those with no computer access,
This highly questionable membership of 1,750
could then be verified, until then it will remain unbelievable
What do they have to lose if what they say is genuine?
Michael,
I am but one man and I am emailing every Member of the Shame of Ireland and engaging with them about their Involvement and Asking if they still want to be Members?
Your Statement:-
“I do not see any more then 40 or 50 ACTIVE comments on this and your websites, so it is important not to forget the other 14,950 and their family’s”
Is on very thin ice!!
How many Board Members does Right of Place have?
They are making decisions for 1750 Members?
How Many Members Have been asked to opt in, or Continue their Membership?
The only Administrator of the Shame of Ireland is me; I do not normally burden others with my own situation; but my wife has just come out of a Suicidal bout, My Mothers Lung Cancer has Returned, and my Father is Registered Blind! I am sure that I have normal Day to Day Pressures, Commitments and Financial Concerns.
Yet I still find the time to Care whether the Members of the Shame of Ireland still want to be involved?
When will Right of Place Audit their Membership?
Shame of Ireland as you have seen is Democractic! It is Open to any Survivor, Family Member or Friend of a Survivor!
If you are eligable and Knock! You will be let in!
Group Leader or Individual! but once inside we are ALL Individuals, and we respect each other in a Friendly Unmoderated Atmosphere!
Hello michael ‘ Well being told that my comments are distructif to the cause of survivers is not very easy .Ihave asked you why you think that we need these people. dont forget that many of us are on the outside of the framework. Survivers abroad are still survivers of industriel schools. Why are groups of people whom most of us dont know saying thay have rights to our names and our addresses our dates of birth all of which makes us a file number. thay take no part in our lives yet thay wont let us know anything. by refusing to publish the names on thier files. it would be a good way to start change.
Thank you Albert for this information, and for your hard work on Survivor’s behalf, Much appreciated.
Just wish the other silent leader’s of other various group’s took a leaf out of your book, and took on the Government in a UNITED front, and SHOW THEIR METAL ,REGARDING THE ISSUE’S OF CONCERN TO SURVIVOR’S.
JIMMY
Rob, I support the move for pensions for victims of state financed clerical atrocities. It is ONE of several forms of aid that could be activated without delay. It affords security on an ongoing basis and would be of huge comfort for many. This does not exclude other forms of aid. Regarding the Educational fund it should allso be dispersed and the monies shared to all. We want to be free fom this burden of having to toe the line when requesting assistence. We want to live out our lives and realise one or two dreams.
To Rob, you are indeed correct in stating it is vitally important that a clear and realistic option be put forward as an alternative to the Trust Fund. You are 100% correct that without this, the change that we ALL wish and want to happen is a lot harder.
It is very hard to change something without a viable alternative. An excellent discussion to start and one that needs ALL survivors inputs. Let’s make sure that we do not make the mistakes of the past in deciding something that does not have the full backing of the majority. Remember I do not see any more then 40 or 50 ACTIVE comments on this and your websites, so it is important not to forget the other 14,950 and their family’s.
To Pauline and Dead Man Walking. I would NEVER ask somebody to “shut yer mouths”. To employ that I have is nothing short of disrespectful. Each and every person, be they survivor, family relatives or friends have their own opinion and their own voice, that no matter how insignificant others may make them feel there comment is, its NOT.
I am for transparency and certainly after the way Survivors were treated for 30 years being kept quiet by the religious and the state I have no interest whatsoever in doing the same. (nor do I hold any authority whatsoever to)
I have agreed on numerous occasions that the previous regime of ROP failed on so many levels and indeed have left a cloud hanging over any potential person who tries to change the system that was in existence. However I have read on this and numerous websites that these leaders of the groups should come out and support the petition against the trust fund.
The very fact that only ONE of the major Survivor groups came out to support this petition, that this should have been applauded, considering it is a NEW board (and not one that has been there for 10 years), even for that one moment, despite the reservations you (or I, for that matter) may have against the New Board of Right of Place. That is where my stance lay on this.
I will again re-iterate, that I would NEVER try to keep somebody quiet, never try to belittle people by dis-regarding their comments or have the kneck to tell people how they should think.
Discussion is all about difference of opinion, making points that you feel lean towards your way of thinking, and listening to other peoples comments that lean to their way of thinking. The outcome of a discussion (which all these comments are) is to come out the other end with a better understanding of each others position and an agreement on where we as Survivors,Dependents and Family’s think the next stage should be.
yet again shut yere mouths and dont complain !!! we all have a voice and freedom of speech ! give r o p a chance ???? theyve had ten years milking the system to benifit the few ! they should be disbanded full stop .all groups !
Thank you Marie,
Eloquently put! We all need to remember this when we think about what is right for us and for others.
Michael,
You have firm grasp of the wrongs of the past and we need to draw a line under the Right of Place as Was!
Whether the NEW Right of Place is fit for Purpose remains to be seen??
What I believe we need to be Focusing on is What we want instead of the Statutory Fund?
I have picked this up from a Petition that has 372 Signatures on it!
I think this is a good Stating point for debate!
You cannot say NO! and then not offer an alternative??
1) A Irish Liaison Officer who was raised in the Homes to be Employed specifically to help and Aid any Irish Survivor in whatever manner they need.
2)All Monies Donated by the Religious Congregations,and Intended for Survivors to be disbursed Immediately and without further delay.
.
3)
Each Survivor, and their Children,who do not use their (Educational Allowance Grant) shall receive the equivalent payable directly to Survivors, enabling them to use this how they see fit.
4)The Same Medical Care Afforded to the Survivors as is to the Religious Orders—(as you are aware, Survivors suffer from the most Severe and Chronic Mental Health/Physical Health Conditions as a result of Severe Child Abuse.
5)Possibly a Pension paid Monthly/Weekly to all Survivors which has no Bearing on other Benefits they may receive.
6)All Funeral Costs of Survivors to be covered by The Irish Government/Religious Order of which Home/Institution they were raised/Abused in.
This is not my Petition and I have no vested interest in these Opinions!
The idea of a Life long Pension starting from “Today” for all Residents of the Institutions; That is Tax Free and does not affect State/Housing/Council Tax Benefits through out the Free World!
This sounds like something that would be Welcomed by ALL?
We need to focus on what we want instead! If the Government turn to us and say OK! What do you Want? Will we have an Answer?
Thanks Michael for your remarks. if Michael was or was not part of the group right of this or that .Iwould not know. You see i get All my information on this site and on robs site.if i am wrong about the fact that Michael Walsh has been active in our cause for the past 10 years then i am sorry . but if we missunderstand information its not our fault.People who claim to speak on our behalf do not inform us at all.You say its distructive for all survivers to complain. Why??????.WHY DO YOU THINK THAT THAY ARE IMPORTANT FOR US.WE NEVER HEAR ANYTHING AT ALL FROM THEM
Idont see much of surviver attacking survivers. what i see are people complaining about the fact that its the taxepayers who are paying so that the government can say thay are doing the best thay can for all of us. this is not true . to many of us wouldnt even know the names of the groups without this site. why should we not complain.????. the women in the womens would do better to make up thier own mindes.We deserve independence.
I gave the wrong date for the Irish Women Survivors Support Network meeting . Its on
SATURDAY FEB 26th (not 25th) at Arlington House Arlington Rd 12noon-3pm
Please could I let people know through the site as I have mentioned it three or four times in my postings.
It is good to see Mr.Michael Walsh sign the petition on behalf of the new Board and indeed their members.
I am still however surprised to see the arguments, the negative comments and incorrect information left on this website.
To Sally Mulready – your comments seem to be of the most rational I have seen on these comment boards.
Some of the other comments, such as Pauline, whilst you are more then entitled to your opinion and I have no RIGHT whatsoever to even begin to tell you how to think I would make a quick point.
The final comment that you have left there is DAMAGING for ALL survivors. You mention that Mr.Walsh cause so much harm to all survivors and he has already had his chance?
This is a factually incorrect statement. Mr.Walsh is the NEW chairman of Right of Place. To the best of my knowledge he has never held a position of authority with Right of Place and therefore has never had the opportunity to ensure Survivors Groups are run properly.
Already we have seen/heard that they are opening new offices in several locations across Ireland (this leads to greater transparency and access to information etc) for all members.
He has signed the Petition AGAINST what the previous board helped to set up. I am sure if he was in it for himself he could of sat in the background (like all the other leaders of these “Survivor” Groups) and said nothing.
They have helped to remove Mr. Noel Barry and his cronies.
Would it not make sense for survivors to rejoice, even for this one occasion for a man and a board who has taken a badly run, badly organized and not fit for purpose Survivor Group and helped to change something that has been in existence for nearly 10 years?
I have seen plenty of comments left on this site, but I don’t remember hearing of ONE of you challenge the previous regime and try to change the very system you were unhappy about.
It is far to easy to sit back and ask for change, it is much harder to take it and MAKE change.
I wish Mr.Michael Walsh every success and indeed every Survivor in achieving what is rightfully theirs.
Perhaps with a large survivor group on board your voices will be heard.
lets forget about those who betrayed survivors . well i for one will not . when i was in dire need of support from those supposedly put in place to help there was none .sick to death of these robbbers .they can go to hell
“The Laundry women and Bethany House people are still awaiting justice, the STF proposals are in a mess. And we just carry on being petty, unkind and attack each other”.
As with every one of the survivor groups you fail, in your kind endeavour, to mention justice for one mother and baby home, namely, the Regina Ceoli Hostel, Nth Brunswick St, Dublin.
I’m so weary of being continuously ignored by survivors.
It demeans everything I stood for in the past outside Dail Eireann.
I spent a part of my life ‘out there’ risking life and limb trying to seek justice for a very individual serious cause and if I’m now in anyway seen to be ‘giving out’ I would consider it, on the contrary, to be an absolute given, (right) that was appropriately and unimaginably justifiably earned.
It is so totally my prerogative, to now, in the aftermath, to be seen to desperately rant and rave.
Albeit politely!
I suffered too much to now be seen to be ‘nice’ by one and all.
Being compliant and ‘nice’ got me absolutely nowhere at all.
I was never acknowledged by most survivor groups in all my time outside Dail Eireann.
There are, though, two prominent survivor group leader exceptions.
Mick Waters and Tom Hayes, who do not live in the Irish jurisdiction were the only ones who recognised my existence.
Thank you both from the bottom of my heart.
Very telling!
I also have Hanora Brennan/Patsy/Olive/Emma to thank for visiting me.
Thank you too.
What a sad indictment indeed on the rest of the groups.
They should be ashamed of themselves.
Nonetheless, it didn’t go unnoticed by Dail insiders.
One such prominent survivor figure claimed that I was only thinking of myself.
What an outrageously ignorant statement to make, when the person had not got one iota as to the historical facts of the case.
The audacity of that survivor, who sat up there in their privileged ivory tower, at the expense of the government, to boot, to talk in such an ignorant manner to a fellow survivor.
I was basically classed as some sort of sick crank or odd person because I decided to take on singlehandedly the Irish government.
I would hazard a guess too that at the time of the campaign, that the rest of the survivor groups were not overly bothered either with the Magdalen laundries or Bethany House.
If they were, indeed, there were not many soundings out there.
It looks like the ML and BH only came into the equation with most survivor groups when all was drawing to a conclusion with the redress.
I can obviously only speculate from my own observations.
The aforementioned institutions could have all been a force to reckon with if we’d stood together.
If those seeking justice just took a stand together we could have fought the system for justice.
Kindness is the quality of being warmhearted and considerate and humane and sympathetic.
It is the act of forgivingness, the tendency to be kind and forgiving.
People who are kind are liked by everybody.
Kindness is of two types: one shown towards fellow human beings, where to make an effort to understand their problems and then give their resources to solve them.
The everyday kindness of the back roads more than makes up for the acts of greed in the headlines. Charles Kuralt
Kindness can become its own motive.
We are made kind by being kind. -Eric Hoffer.
Survivor groups should have taken on board kindness to ALL survivors as their motto.
Of course those so called group leaders in Dublin want this Statuary Trust Fund they are only thinking of the future huge funding they will continue to recieve ,they already have been given god know’s how many millions >WHAT have they spent all that money on >our moneywhich were child Prisons where children were sentenced as criminals and detained from the age of day’s old to 16 years.It just beggers belief how any government allowed such brutiality against the children of Ireland. BUT THEY DID JUST THAT. MOST SURVIVORS don’t LIVE IN IRELAND BUT LIVE OUT THEIR LIVES IN EXILE,driven out of our own country by The Brutal Regime.
So its from offices in all of ireland. whats next . we abroad are as usual well out of it . Sally why should Michael Walsh suddenly become capable of running things lets be honest its about buisness and money.And all these servises is totally unrealistic.Many of us could do with help now and again but its impossable to take part in so many peoples lives. We are adults. Its the same for us as for anyone else living in a society that has no place for anyone without roots . Helping the chosen few is doing more harm than good to all of us.We should be allowed to get on with our lives .Your pleading for Michael Walsh who has caused such harm to survivers says that you want to believe him but why should we . we has already had his chance. but i am not saying that you are not sincere.
Hi Seanie,
The Michael that you sent a personal message on the Shame of Ireland is the Child of a Survivor and his Membership is a valid one. He has stated to me that he is NOT the Acting Chairperson of the New Right of Place.
His membership does not affect the fact that there is a letter awaiting the ratification of Members of the Shame of Ireland @
The Letter is asking the Revenue Commisioners in Ireland investigate where ALL the Money went in reference to the Right of Place and the Aislinn Centre.
The identity of Michael on the Shame of Ireland is less of a worry to me at the Moment than the “Michael Walsh” who purports to Sign this Petition on behalf of the NEW Right of Place?
You have to be a Member of the Shame of Ireland to take part in the Activities of the Shame of Ireland.
Members are drawn from Survivors of the Industrial School, their Families and their Friends.
Recently, I signed the STF petition as an individual, as written by Paddy. I gave my reasons and I said I would encourage women from the Irish Women Survivors Support Network to sign as well.
I identified then, as I have many times before on this site, that I am Chairperson of the Irish Women Survivors Support Network.But it should be quite clear that I signed in my own right and NOT on behalf of the members of the Irish Women Survivors Support Network. It is obvious that people, who sign, do so on their own behalf and not on behalf of an organization or support group. As I understand it Paddy, only individual signatures count.?
My decision to sign was stupidly attacked by M assuming in her ignorance ,that I was signing on behalf of all the members of the Women’s Group. Many of you will know why I am talking about as she has emailed te world –as usual.
I am sick to death of seeing people attacked And criticized. Survivor attacking Survivor. It seems to me Michael Walsh who I have never met
But have spoken to, was damned if he did and damned if he didn’t sign that petition.
I believe that Michael Walsh signed in his own right as a Survivor which he is perfectly entitled to do. His decision to sign is as good as the decisions of any other individual Survivor.
Michael Walsh has to be judged on his own efforts and his own delivery to Survivors ROP.Its not to say that I don’t think as Chair , he is overly ambitious for ROP .His plans to Put an office in every county is highly aspirational and may require too much funding from a dwindling pot. Nor do I believe its needed ten years on.
I also hope that the HSE and the Education Dept and whoever funds the ROP will do a better job of monitoring their expenditure then previously.
At the risk of people writing in this site Getting really mad, I actually think that Michael Walsh should be given a chance. People who do nothing but complain should try getting out there, taking a stand and doing something.
O yes the ROP accounts issues don’t appear to be yet resolved , but I blame the HSE and the other funders who as far as I can see threw money at ROP, failed completely to keep track of their funding. None of the Trustees had any training to manage this funding.
This is not the first time this has happened . The HSE also funded another organization they gave £90000 to run a B&B and never saw how Survivors were treated and cheated. That Project was also severely ignored by the HSE and todate nothing has been done about it.
I am glad and relieved that both Welcome House in Cork and this other place in Dublin are gone –closed down, though the money wasted on both is nothing short of criminal.
I visited ROP twice and on each occasion I found Welcome House bleak, hardly anyone there and as a modern facility for Survivors coming for a break or a short holiday it was a disgrace and insulting. But of course it was considered good enough for Survivors – I say good riddance to both places. We all deserve better.
I have read the recent ROP Newsletter and again Its better then anything produced previously and Is another reason why I feel that Michael as Chair of ROP should be given a chance to start again? Having said that I would expect to see upfront proper democratic elections that return people not just willing but CAPABLE of being Trustees on a Board handling vast sums of money.
So lets Survivor stop attacking Survivor. While we are doing that to each other those who were responsible for our woes remain unchallenged and Have truly escaped justice. The Laundry women and Bethany House people are still awaiting justice, the STF proposals are in a mess. And we just carry on being petty, unkind and attack each other.
Finally, Just to be clear about my intentions re the Petition, so Ms M and others know at our forthcoming meeting of the Irish Women Survivors Support Network on Feb 25th, I will as I said when I signed the petition, be encouraging Women to sign the petition and I will explain why I as an individual signed it.
Well you know by now as many others We are not fighting the same battle as them . its about industriel school abuse for many but its about having power for others. because i refused advice about my statementi have lost all contact with the people i was with as a child . this is no accident.The only contact with the leader was a very unfriendly encounter in the redress board. many of the women from G.B have been there also . were thay treated in the same way is something i have thought about.These people are damaged by stardom and have no thoughts about others. its dangerous for all of us . you might already know that i was also sent out to pass an exam. it wasent for us it was for the reputation of the school as we were warned at the time . i would never have stayed in prison by choise but the leader did .All she remembered about me was that she found me clever . i took this as a complement but the shock was terrable
Rob,
I have had conversations with Michael (someone) I do not know his last name. I informed Michael why I choose Paddy Doyle to speak on my behalf as I am out of the loop here in Yuma at present and at home in Canada otherwise. I informed him of my education as a PI. I have not heard back from Michael since. What we want Rob is not to have every Tom Dick & Harry who seek to put themselves in our favour while behind our backs feathering their nests (off our backs) It is a difficult task for you I know, but we must study the subjects and their interest relating to, we the survivors and victims of abuse, by that I mean, who is this Michael ? what cloak does he wear ? is he a Manchester Utd or a Man City supporter because Im sure Paddy was wearing the No 10 shirt on Saturday. In the meantime “Oh men from the fields, come softly within, come softly, thread softly, Oh men from the Fields”.
I told all who I was, where I come from, my opinions and my life story, lets find out who we are talking to for all our sakes.
Seanie
The Michael Walsh who Signed the Petition needs to be verified? As thiss adds a theoretical 1750 Votes to the Petition, that the HSE will accept as it was the OLD Right of Place that was involved in the Birth off the Trust Fund??
All Survivors of the Industrial Schhools are welcome at the Shame of Ireland @http://bit.ly/agjWv0
Survivors have been at loggerheads with each other ever since the beginnings of the commission to inquire into institutional child abuse and the redress board.
They’ll continue to pull each others hair out, if they’re allowed to get away with it, with the incoming government; which looks very much like being the Fine-Gael party, who is purportedly at 38/% according to the recent highly recognised Irish poll.
“The groups were told at a meeting (refer to link) that the congregations had offered additional compensation which they value at €348.51m, on top of the €128m already contributed under the controversial 2002 indemnity deal.
The government also intends to seek over €200m more from the congregations to reach some €680m, or a 50% share, of the €1.36bn cost of the indemnity deal.”
Excepting Paddy Doyle’s online accountability of course, did_ALL_ groups pass on minutes of meetings held with An Taoiseach, Brian Cowen and his ministers etc, either in written or vis-a-vis verbal and aural format to_ALL of their members?
I’m just wondering – as it was not the case with extensive meetings that were held at the instigation of the RIRB/CICA and thereafter.
Countless survivors, from my standpoint, anyway, over the years were literally walked over and seen as totally inconsequential; or either too disturbed to grasp the reality of what was going on with the government.
It is incomprehensible the way that we were treated by those who grew up with us in the institutions.
I find it indecipherably difficult to get my head around the fact that we were trampled upon and were offered up as sacrificial lambs by those who rather choose instead to kiss the cheek of judas for thirty pieces of silver.
We were never mostly consulted about our affairs from day one.
Survivors of our ilk were only ever handy to have around when it came to pushing the institutional survivor agenda with the government.
It was imperative for the powers that be to see how traumatised survivors were.
We were the ideal faces of institutional abuse when it paid for us to be so.
Nonetheless, behind the scenes we were spat and trodden on by certain nastier elements that were mollycoddled and protected by some groups.
All under the guise of saving survivor face.
The status quo had to exist at all cost and any one who was outside the camp were hammered and nailed.
The outgoing government used some of the groups to claw money from the religious societies and congregations for itself and not for survivors of institutions.
Just in the same way that some groups used the most vulnerable survivors to get money from the government for their own selfish needs mostly.
The La La syndrome should be done away with forever.
It’s ironic that a lot of survivors manning some survivor groups were also mostly the very same survivors who were selected by the religious to be educated in their respective institutions?
Just an observation?!
Man’s power of choice enables him to think like an angel or a devil, a king or slave.
Whatever he chooses mind will create and manifest [Frederick Bailes]. Mastering others is strength.
All our names belong to us . So the groups can confirm with whom they have contact. We have been in this situation a long time now non of the ones i have met have any use now for confidentiality. All our closest friends and family know now.so give us back our names and we can decide for ourselves. a group of over a certain number is unmanagable as we have already seen because YOU WROTE A NAME 3 OR 4 YEARS AGO DOES NOT MEAN THAT ITS A PERMANENT PRESENCE IN ANY WAY
I see Mr Michael Walsh , Chairman of Right Of Place, has signed the Petition above . And it also include’s his 1750 ( new?) member’s!
I would like very much to know where exactly did this magic increase in membership come from? As recently as just before last Christmas, the reported membership was 1500, if one could beleive even that!
Mr Walsh, would it be fair to ask this question, are these genuine member’s you refer to? are they all actually still alive? Are some of these alleged member’s in fact just name’s that were hijacked from the old ROP? Is it not a fact that many member’s you claim to represent, are no longer member’s, many have passed on, many requested to have their name’s removed from your data base, but how do we know this was ever done.?
Jimmy
Hello angry ‘ i read your last comment. Excuse me but i think you are missing the point . all this is not about comparing brain sizes. in fact its got nothing to do with that . the fact that when you talk of your dependecy towards people like sally well she does not need to be covered by the irish government to do good around her. nor does anyone . people such as paddy doyle heard all of us including the ones left in limbo by these group leaders. And he gave us a voice. i dont know what size his brain is but throw out your thimble. its no use to anyone .
Bruce Arnold’s Irish Independent synopsis here sums up, for me anyway, the serious difficulties apropos past funding issues. The operative word, REGULATION.
Our laws still allow for the protection of child abusers
Saturday March 13 2010
THE Irish State has connived in the concealment of abuse and has consistently failed to regulate state institutions and the church.
Historically, it has done so on a massive scale in respect of industrial school abuse and has allowed a climate of uncontrolled abuse to prevail within diocesan systems.
Although substantial sums have been distributed to them without proper supervision, accounting for that money has not been required, nor have the internal justifications for receiving it been required from representative organisations.
We must now create our own Tahrir Square and stay there untill the listening begins and suceed we shall as the Egyptian people have shown today.A change is coming to Ireland its just that the gombeens of the political class don’t know about it yet. The abolition of the Trust Fund is just one part of the struggle to renew Ireland.We are not takeing it any more, we allso have dignity.
All survivors of institutions should have been entitled over the years to have had the luxury of encountering contemporaries from their respective institutions.
Insofar as the survivors in question would have wanted to have made themselves publicly known to their ex-fellow inmates.
The government after all has given massive amounts of funding to some groups to set up centres of healing (as well as education).
Some of the group leaders in this respect, I would surmise, anyway, may have used the healing centres for mostly their own self-serving needs and those belonging to the close-knit inner circles.
It would appear that way to me.
Obviously I can only speculate without having concrete evidence.
The survivor, elitists, who I know for sure, have entertained survivors from all over the world, have to my knowledge, been very selective in who the latter would have encountered when they came to Ireland.
I do not remember even one single incident of being asked by any group leader of whether or not I would I like to meet a survivor of Goldenbridge from abroad.
In my estimation, the leaders have caused untold further damage to survivors like me who would have dearly loved to have met survivors who were in Goldenbridge at the same time as my incarceration period.
Healing of this important kind, in this sense, has been totally denied to innumerable survivors like me who would have benefitted enormously in coming to terms with the excruciatingly painful past.
I have personal experience of being completely shut out when survivors of Goldenbridge came to Ireland from afar.
It was very painful to hear from others that my contemporaries had all partied together with the very selective Goldenbridge group.
To date I’ve not encountered one Goldenbridge survivor with the help of any survivor group.
It is such a sad indictment from a healing perspective and the very ethos of the founding of the survivor groups.
This privilege is only mostly afforded those who are sitting at the helm of the so-called healing centres at the expense of the government and the religious.
(I am aware that survivors also meet outside the survivor centres but that does not enter the equation here).
The incoming government should look after the most marginalised survivors who have been frozen out by those who claim to have the inerest of all survivors at heart.
There should be expert, independent caring services in place, solely for survivors who feel they are On the Outside Looking in.
Monies should trickle down to the expert groups to help the marginalised survivors who do not feel safe attending mainstream government funded survivor groups.
Bertie Ahern looked to the same survivor groups all the time and ignored the marginalised who were right under his nose.
He saw the survivor groups as being representatives of ALL survivors.
Or – if he didn’t, he did not want to know at all.
The same was applicable with the media.
It is so far from the real truth.
“You can bend it and twist it… You can misuse and abuse it… But even God cannot change the Truth.” Michael Levy.
Mick waters dident run avoca by himself there was also mrs waters and thier family all getting very good wages thanks to our money thay got thier share
Mick Waters used to run AVOCA HOUSE what has happened to that and the funding.Also he has a website called Ultimated Disposal where all you read is newspaper clippings,it was supposed to be for survivors comments.
somebody tell me why the opposition party in Ireland never informed its people of the reckless way the party in power were allowing the country to fail in such a big way ?? and yet the parties are looking for your vote and trust in the coming election ! i dont trust any of them the brown envelope merchants !!!
TO ALL VICTIMS, SUPPORTERS AND ALL DECENT IRISH FOLKS:
THIS IS THE TIME TO MAKE OUR VOICES HEARD AND OUR VOTES COUNT. WITH THE ELECTIONS ONLY DAYS AWAY, I URGE YOU TO SIGN THIS PETITION, AND TO FOLLOW THE INSTRUCTIONS AS SET OUT ABOVE:
WHEN YOU HAVE GONE TO THE LINK AND SIGNED THE PETITION, YOU MUST then <> YOUR SIGNATURE, BY <> WHICH WILL BE SENT TO YOU PERSONALLY (FROM THE PETITION WEBSITE).
IT WOULD SEEM THAT MANY WHO HAVE SIGNED, DO NOT FIND THEIR NAME ON THE LIST. THIS IS BECAUSE YOU HAVE NOT VALIDATED YOUR REQUEST.
ONE FOR ALL – ALL FOR ONE.
BETTER TO HAVE EVERYBODY MARCH UNDER THE ONE FLAG, AND PRESENT <> PETITION.
I WILL SAY IT ONCE MORE, FOR WHAT IT’S WORTH, AND I WILL <> ON THAT:
WHEN A COUNTRY, A WHOLE PEOPLE, COMMITS, OR OTHERWISE ALLOW TO BE COMMITTED, THE ABOMINABLE CRIMES WE NOW HAVE PROOF OF, IE THE RAPING – MAIMING – ABUSING – AND DESTROYING OF CHILDREN, AND FURTHERMORE TOLERATES BY ITS INACTION, THE FREE RAMBLING OF ITS CRIMINALS, PERPETRATORS, PAEDOPHILES AND MORAL JUDGES (SUCH AS THE CATHOLIC CHURCH AND THE IRISH GOVERNMENT – SOON TO BE BEATIFIED OR RETIRED WITH ACCOUNTS AND POCKETS OVERFLOWING WITH MONEY), WHEN A SOCIETY IS SO WARPED AND HELL-BENT ON IGNORING THE FACTS AND THE TRUTH….. IN SUCH A SOCIETY NOTHING – NOTHING – NOTHING CAN BE RIGHT, THRIVE AND SURVIVE. I DON’T THINK FURTHER PROOF IS REQUIRED TODAY, WHEN WE ARE BANKRUPT AND ON OUR KNEES. NOT EVEN AWAKE ENOUGH TO BE BEGGING FOR MERCY….
THE INITIAL FACILITATING OF THESE CRIMES AGAINST CHILDREN, AND THE SUBSEQUENT DENIAL OF THE MONSTROSITIES EXPOSED AND DENOUNCED, ARE THE SINGLE ROOT CAUSE OF <>. ALL OF THEM.
There are countless voiceless survivors’ of institutional child abuse out there who have been frozen out from the very outset; not only by the government, but, also, by some prominent survivors’ groups.
The latter have been financially propped up for years by the Fianna Fail government; millions of Euro have gone in their direction; and indeed, all under the auspices of helping those who were in institutions.
Nonetheless, those survivors’ who decided to remain individual by expressing their own serious concerns were seen as oddities and thus subsequently shunned and squeezed out.
Not being in receipt of any of the many perks, including education.
It was exactly the same scenario in the institutions, where the pets, the bane of our lives, were given everything while the untermenchen were always on the outside looking in.
The Labour Party is all too cognizant of the way some survivors were’/are treated; who were not invited to Christmas parties, who were not invited to dine with the president at Áras an Uachtaráin who were not in receipt of outings, etc, etc etc.
I’m talking here about the principles as opposed to the perks, per se.
(As I know only too well, I think, that there are some of you who wouldn’t dream of wanting to be entertained by a right wing conservative Catholic, who would be seen as the very symbolism of a church who had ill-treated defenceless children in the past) – and not to mention having to sing sweet songs to boot.
Like saying – what a wonderful world it is for us survivors’, aren’t we so blessed with all that the government has done for us, blah, blah, blah.
Codswallop!
A political media stunt to show to the world how wonderful Bertie was to Ireland’s bloody bedraggled begotten bairns of the past at the hands of the religious.
There was no hidden agenda at least with the parties children had in their respective institutions. That is – on the part of the party-hosts.
They never learn.
I personally was enraged at not being invited, as I would have rather endeared myself to the music of the fine line -up of celebrities (specifically, Mary Black, my favourite) who were on offer for the afternoon.
Well, it’s a long road that has no turning.
Bertie does not give a damn anymore, as he made it quite succinctly clear the other day to the Irish people.
So where to now for the survivor groups who compounded the abuse and who seemingly mostly lapped up all the government/religious goodies?
Are they going to try to do the same with the incoming party/parties in making sure they get their own way?
Methinks – they might be just wasting their time.
I, for one, shan’t be shedding a tear for the bleeding Bertie sweethearts, who shamefully turned their backs on survivors throughout the *golden* years.
They should be holding their heads down in sorrow for the further pain and damage they inflicted on some their fellow survivors.
I wont deny that they haven’t done good; they have done gargantuan work; but, what a price some of us survivors’ had to pay.
Life should have moved on after the genuflection cow-towing ceremony,
Period.
It should have expanded to incorporate other survivors’, who should have been treated just as valuably as the chief instigators.
One can’t forever be beholden to them, as they’ve already been showered with accolades and trophies galore.
Notwithstanding, too, the knee-bending, guru-like, adulation from fellow survivors’ as well as special cultic media attention befitting for Irish Celtic celebrity queens.
Mind you, i’ve an aversion to all this pseudo Irish celebrity thing, it doesn’t suit the psyche.
The Statutory Funding should be the business of all survivors of institutions and not only the same bunch who forever forcefully put themselves to the front.
The Fianna Gael Party, the Labour Party and the Sinn Fein Party should be on the side of those who were left outside the fold.
They should listen intently to what they have to say.
I speak here on behalf of survivors who do not attend groups, who are flushed out by other survivor groups when they attend outside meetings, who are continually treated coldly.
There are plenty of idle houses all over the country, the government could possibly plough some of the statutory funding and interest into some of these houses and offer them at a reasonable rate or whatever, to survivors’ of institutions who feel alienated, not only from survivor groups, but from the country of their forebears, of which they fled because of the traumatic memories of their lives in institutions.
Also to those who are homeless.
The funding should be shared equally this time around by the incoming government.
It should start afresh and see that there is inclusiveness where the statutory funding is concerned.
It behoves them to not act like the last decrepit self-serving government.
To add here, we don’t hang around the Dail just because we want to get our mug-shots on the T.V.
We hang about there because we want justice, equality and fairness for survivors’, individually and collectively.
Cheery picking must end.
The frozen must be given blankets and made to feel warm.
I say… all you voiceless survivors’ out there, rise up and shout from the rooftops, let yourselves be heard, lest they forget you all exist.
Remember consultation must be had with ALL survivors’, not just the chosen few who seem to foist themselves on the powers that be because they know they have the advantage of group dynamics on their side.
Group-think rules, don’t forget, but if there are enough individual scarabs scratching away at the elephant, the latter will finally be forced to bend its knees in humility and listen.
Debate and divergence of views can only enrich our history and culture.
Democracy opens new vistas and opportunities.
We should use the opportunities it offers to correct past mistakes not to blunder anew.
Ibrahim Babangida
Penultimately:
Shunning is an act of social rejection the deliberate avoiding association with, and habitually keeping away from, an individual or group.
It is a sanction against association, often associated with religious groups and other tightly knit organisations and communities.
People classified as “sinners” or “traitors” and other people who defy or who fail to comply with the standards established by the shunning group(s).
Conclusion:
I ultimately plead with the incoming government to pay heed to the petitioners and to treat same on their own individualistic merit.
For every one voice deliberating their point here there are thousands more out there who have not got the written/verbal ability to convey their opinions concerning the statutory funding and all matters pertaining to the legacy of child institutional abuse.
Hi Geraldine! Don’t Stress Pet!
Your name appears above the Comments??
You have signed the Petition.
I only mentioned this because I don’t want you to Worry!
I know how Passionately you feel about this!!
Tell Your Friends and Family Too!
They have supported you in your time of need and been affeted by this!
They are entitled to Speak for YOU! TOO!
Geraldine. If you read the instructions given at the part of the website saying how to deal with the petition you will find a full explanation there. I hope it helps. Paddy.
The Petition referred to can be found here http://www.paddydoyle.com/statutory-fund-petition/ Please read the instructions carefully before signing it. Many people are registering but because they haven’t followed the instructions as give. If you want you’re name registered as being opposed to the Statutory Fund, then it is important to read the note I’ve placed before the petition signing section. Paddy.
I have NEVER given my permission to any so called group’s or services for survivors ,I have not used nor had any help or feedback nor indeed have contact with any of them. my name should NOT be on anyone’s list >EXCEPT PADDY DOYLE’s No To The Statuary Trust Fund, DON’T WANT IT.
I Totally give my surport to this petition. Shame on the Irish Government that we survivors have been forced into this in order that we recieve JUSTICE for the suffering and Loss of Childhood, Sibling’s, Identity, Root’s,Health, many lost their live’s ,many left badly damaged ,we all suffer life long Ill Health BECAUSE we were made to suffer both Psysically, Mentally by the SADISTIC child hating money-grubbing Wicked Monsters.Paddy thank you for being my Representative, to speak on my behalf.
THE BRITISH SHAME SCANDAL OF MARGARET HUMPHREYS CBE BY JIM LOACH CALLED ORANGES AND SUNSHINE IS BEING SHOWN IN GLASGOW OF SCOTLAND ON 26 FEB 2011.
THE SCOTTISH MEDIA IS INTERESTING IN MY STOLEN ABUSE VICTIMS PHOT’S OF SCOTTISH BANISHED STOLEN CHILDREN IN A DR BARNARDO’S CHILD MIGRANT SLAVE BROTHEL CONCENTRATION PRISON CAMP FOR 80 DISABLE UNWANTED CHILD MIGRANTS FROM 1960s TO 1970s.
Like many , I have no time for this “trust fund”, in its present format. The ONLY benefactors of this “trust fund” would be these so called “group leaders” and their lackeys, constant cash flow on tap, regular “wages”, etc, etc, all the benefits these con men and con women have been heartily enjoying for some years now.
In one of Paddy`s postings he states that he was informed that its “”A TRUST FUND OR NOTHING”. I assume (hopefully) that this remark came from a “politican”. Such a remark is indicative of MUCK SAVAGE “politics”, mumpers with no conception of democracy, nor understanding of their subject, hard-liners who had and HAVE NO qualms about sticking their fingers up to thousands of children who suffered in the CHILD BROTHELS of Ireland , condoned and sanctioned by such MUCK SAVAGE antics of the past, and indeed STILL ALIVE today, as can be witnessed on a daily basis in the DAIL. Such MUCK SAVAGE ignorance of the LEGITIMATE concerns in regard to this “trust fund” displayed by the institutionally abused can be likened to the present situation in Egypt. THATS WHAT EVOLVES WHEN “POLITICANS” FAIL TO LISTEN.
There are many questions this “trust fund” raises, not least the mechanics by which it would function. It CANNOT be a cap-in-hand procedure heaping insult to injury upon the already vulnerable. Everything I have read about this “trust fund” is merely a PILE`A PANTS, a placebo to buy time, to generate widespread confusion while the faceless pen pushers and men in grey suits push through damaging and useless legislation which can only result in FURTHER ABUSE.
The question of “sharing” out the money being donated by the religious equally among the institutionally abused is, in my opinion also as bad as this proposed “trust fund”. Many , many people who found themselves at the arse end of the redress procedure were marginalised by “average” awards being introduced, a “tired” redress board, no longer interested in ascertaining ANY FURTHER NEED to listen to or hear HORROR STORIES OF ABUSE, had lost its way, and as a consequence MANY people were SHAFTED. This has been evidenced by the FACT that in many cases the representing solicitors were receiving MORE THAN THE VICTIM.
If these religious donations ARE to be given for “charitable” redress, would it not be the right and justful thing to introduce a minimum ceiling for EVERYBODY who received a pittance, or paltry award to be brought up to a level of at least FIFTY THOUSAND EURO`S. I hear stories of people being offered five, ten, or fifteen thousand euros, whereas my personal opinion, and its only my opinion, residence in ANY of these hell holes SHOULD MERIT A STARTING POINT OF AT LEAST FIFTY THOUSAND EUROS, while the redress legislators were adamant in introducing a MAXIMUM, they never introduced a MINIMUM!!!!!!!
In order for a “trust fund” to work to the benefit of EVERYBODY, its imperative that the redress board, education department, are taken out of the equation. Its time for the same old, same old TO GO, its the redress board and education department who are keeping these so called “group leaders” to the fore, the divide and conquer policy being the order of the day, the message MUST surely have got back to these departments that NO SURVIVORS WANT ANYTHING TO DO WITH THESE SO CALLED “group leaders”. The retention of these so called “group leaders” remains a viable option for these departments to IGNORE the PROPER setting up of a TRUST FUND. The State needs to provide a DEDICATED LEGAL TEAM for the sole benefit of survivors, professional financial experts, skilled negotiators, the IMMEDIATE DISBANDING of these so called “group leaders”.
We have (hopefully) a new government in the offing , but NO DOUBT we will be saddled with the usual “OH, SURE NOW, HE`S A GREAT MAN, WAS`NT HE EDUCATED BY THE CHRISTIAN BROTHERS”, we need to get a LEADER who KNOWS HOW TO BEND A MITRE, HOW TO PULL IT DOWN OVER THE EARS AND EYES OF THOSE RESPONSIBLE FOR SO MUCH OF IRELAND’S ILL`S.
The FIRST duty of this new leader should be to restore this TWO HUNDRED MILLION EUROS STOLEN FROM SURVIVORS BY THE FIANNA FAILure`s ON THE PRETEXT OF BUILDING A NEW HOSPITAL. The building of new hospitals remains the RESPONSIBILITY OF THE STATE, NOT THE INSTITUTIONALLY ABUSED.
The NEXT duty of this New Leader should be to the TAX PAYER, to reinstate into public coffers the ONE BILLION PLUS DEPLETION ON THE UNSUSPECTING TAX PAYER INSTIGATED BY MICHAEL WOODS TO “”SOFTEN”” THE BLOW ON THE RELIGIOUS FOR THEIR CRIMES AGAINST CHILDREN.
The next duty of this New Leader should be to visit the IRISH CENTRE here in London, and WATCH REAL PEOPLE AT WORK AS THEY HELP AND SUPPORT THE DISENFRANCHISED IRISH, MANY, SO MANY OF THEM FROM THE INSTITUTIONS. FOR ME, THESE PEOPLE ARE THE REAL HEROE`S. THESE FIANNA FAILures TREAT THESE PEOPLE WITH CONTEMPT, A GRAND TOTAL OF SIX THOUSAND EUROS PER YEAR FOR FUNDING, ITS A DISGRACE.
Maybe we SHOULD deal with the congreations as oppposed to the State, as what the State offers consists of CONTINUAL FUNDING FOR THE SO CALLED “group leaders” thereby maintaining the status quo, ie, MORE PAIN, MORE ABUSE, MORE LIES, MORE TREACHERY, trust fund, or personal payment, DOES IT REALLY MATTER.??? THE HURT NEVER GOES AWAY.
I have no doubt that various group leader’s view the posting’s and information that are displayed here on this site, much thank’s to Paddy.
It would be great that maybe these same people would be seen by all survivor’s, to support this petition, and give their vote’s, and show to survivor’s that they are doing their bit for the survivor’s, THAT,THEY ALL CLAIM TO REPRESENT!
NO to the Statuary Trust Fund, Survivors of Industrial child prisons Are owed our rightful compansation that must be paid to each survivor sepretatly to put into our own bank accounts without interfernce from ANYONE Who was it who attended secret meetings with Mary Coughlan about The Statuary Trust Fund??????????WE HAVE NEVER BEEN INFORMED ABOUT ANY MEETINGS OR OTHERWISE, Never HAD ANY ADVICE NOR HELP FROM ANY OF THOSE SO CALLED OVERFUNDED SERVICES they are just a big con.And NO I don’t need nor want an education I have attended the best university of life and taught myself .that’s all the education I need. Those pushing for this Statuary Trust Fund really are Evil Cruel,Greedy, Sadistic,Bullies . we survivors >DONT WANT IT.
Phil and everyone!
There is a list of petitions thatt you may be interested in Signing???
They can be found at the “Home Page” of http://bit.ly/agjWv0
You do not have to be a member to access these!!
If you Knock YOU will be let in!!
dear Paddy,
thank goodness we have you on our side, we don’t want anymore help from those only interested in helping themselves. As we’re not getting any younger these monies should be handed over now.
still trying to sign your petition – my sister was unable to sign for me.
please note my sister tried to sign on my behalf as my internet was down, I would request that you allow me to sign .
I was in Artane for six years from 1953 to 1959 and wany my voice heard.
CLICKED ON IT TODAY AND IT WAS SORTED. JIMMY
————————————————-
TO OTHER FOLK HERE.
IT IS IMPORTANT THAT AFTER YOU SUBMIT THE SIGN IN VOTE, YOU MUST CLICK ON THE LINK IN THE RETURN EMAIL, THAT YOU GET, IN ORDER TO COMPLETE THE VOTE. SEEM’S THAT MANY ARE NOT DOING THAT.
HI SEANIE, MANAGED TO GET THE VOTE DONE FOR PJ,THANKS TO ADVICE FROM PADDY. I USED ANOTHER EMAIL ADDRESS, WHICH I USE SOMETIME’S, BUT FORGOT THAT IT ALSO HAS IT’S OWN INBOX, SO
Im a Survivior from the nazi priest F Sean Fortune 1979 Belfast St Augustines…Nazareth lodge..Gorey his so called home town..Can go into detail as ive had counciling from nexus and meds from my Dr. and head of mental health dept Co.down..I was hunted by demons for most of my adult life..Confided with local parish priests but firewall went up..
Hi Paddy,
Jimmy will tell you that maybe Patrick does not have a computer, anyone else who is with a computer and have not a vote could sign for him Im sure ?.
Regards
Seanie.
I will make an exception this time Jimmy and try it. As I’ve already signed myself, I doubt it will work. I stress again – I’m making an exception on this occasion as you’re having difficulty. Paddy. What I do need is an email address for your friend. Paddy.
Paddy, just tried to put my friend’s name on the vote, but it is rejecting it because i have also voted in my name.
His Name is Patrick Tobin, ex Glin, and now resides in west sussex. Can you add his vote? Jimmy
Thanks for your reply Paddy, yes my friend is an ex puple of Glin and certainly qualify’s. What bothers me is , just how many like him are scattered throughout the world, who cant read or write, and are in the dark as regards our concern.s etc. jIMMY
I appeal to all of our brothers and sisters to rally to the side of Paddy Doyle and his site by signing the petition against any fund. If we come together then we are a force to reckon with. We can avert a disaster by putting Paddy Doyle to the fore as our spokesperson in dealings with relevant authorities regarding reparation monies which the religious want to be given to their victims. No matter what happens it has been an honour to have knowm you Paddy albeit through your internationally known site. In my country we have a name for people like Paddy Doyle “Hedersman” which means “Man Of Honour” something rare in Ireland to day.
Dear Government,beginning to listen is difficult especially when you have been deaf for so long. The country is in a dark place put there by people who cultivated deafness to a fine art.The winds of change are sweeping around the world. There is no future for the deaf and blind. Here is a chance for the Irish State to change by listening and by its deeds point the way forward. The victims do not want a statutory fund. We are capable of handling our lives and have been to hell and back and are still standing and breathing. Your lack of respect for the wishes of victims of clerical atrocities is mirrored by your mismanagement of the nations economy with serfdom to the IMF for generations to come as a result. Do something different and listen to us.
hi paddy, the statutory fund is an insult to all the victims the criminals in the catholic church have being let of the hook again,bye the Irish government who are them self involved in the placement of children in there care, where dose is say that the abusers can dictate where compensation is to be given and to who,if this go through it is an attempt to make beggars of us all as well as victims shame on them.vote now and vote for paddy there is not much time left
Thanks for the support Rob. It’s my belief that what needs to happen now is that all those opposed to the Statutory Fund come together under one banner so to speak and all names be forward to ALL those candidates seeking to be elected to Government. This may well be the last chance to have changes made to the Statutory Fund before it is as was put to me “It’s a Statutory Fund or it’s Nothing”. Paddy.
Hi Paddy as you know I have been promoting a Petition to STOP the Statutory Fund which is still active at http://bit.ly/9hjMlC which has 327 signatures on it. THANK YOU for supporting that and an even bigger THANK YOU for bringing this matter to your readership!
I hope that those who for whatever reason thought that they could not support the petition I Sponsored feel comfortable in Signing this!
I would also like to take the opportunity to let all Survivors of the Irish Industrial Schools they are welcome at the Shame of Ireland http://bit.ly/agjWv0
It is a private site and only the “Home Page” is visible to Non Members, offering a safe no judgemental place for Survivors to Meet Up, Make Friends and make changes about the issues raised on your site.
I WILL BE VIGOROUSLY PROMOTING THIS PETITION!
You friend Rob
It is still not too late to urge TD’s to vote down the Statutory Trust Fund if you click on the following Link you can send your email to all TD’s http://bit.ly/IentBC
Please Share this?
Click http://bit.ly/H9anbL go to 9mins 27 seconds to see Right of Place talking on the Statutory Trust Fund
This link is only available until 3rd April 2012
Then Check out Page 1 of their News Letter by Clicking http://bit.ly/H9AQSd
Are you as confused as me?
@ClareDalyTD asks a Question does @RuairiQuinnTD answer it? see http://bit.ly/HxaXgs and have your say? Comments and a Yes / No vote are at this Link.
Latest Reply to my unanswered Correspondence, prompted by an Official Complaint on the 15th July 2011 against Ruairi Quinn for ignoring Correspondence!
Only the Email sent to the Taoiseach forwarded for Ruairi Quinn to respond to are outstanding!
The last Paragraph is very interesting “As responsibility for information for survivors will also be taken on by the Statutory Fund, funding of survivor groups by the Department will cease.” This may explain the change of Heart of Group Leaders?
Also interesting to note that they are apparently not funded on the Number of Members by the HSE, however this does not mention the Guidelines for Funding from the Cork City VEC.
What is not clear is who funds the Aislinn Centre?? There is also vagueness about the Role of the HSE in the Funding of the Aislinn Centre and Right of Place.
Can anyone shed any Light on this??
Regards Rob
————————————————–
On Behalf Of Minister for Education & Skills
Sent: 17 August 2011 16:56
To: Robert Northall
Subject: 1102130/1102417
17 August 2011
PLEASE QUOTE REF NUMBER ON ALL CORRESPONDENCE
Our Ref: 1102130 /1102417
Dear Mr. Northall,
The Minister for Education and Skills, Mr. Ruairí Quinn T.D., has asked me to refer to your recent e-mails regarding the proposed Statutory Fund to support the needs of survivors of residential abuse, the funding and activities of certain support centres for survivors of abuse and related matters.
As you are aware, following the announcement of the proposal to utilise €110 million of the contributions being offered by the religious congregations to establish a Statutory Fund to support the needs of survivors, this Department undertook a detailed consultation process. Meetings were held with survivor representatives, religious congregations and other interested parties. In addition, over 250 individual responses were received in response to newspaper advertisements which invited views on the specific needs facing survivors and how the Fund could operate to assist in meeting those needs. You of course contributed your views to the consultation process in your e-mail of 27 August 2010.
The consultation process identified a range of views in relation to the establishment of a Statutory Fund including some views that the money should just be paid directly to former residents. However it also highlighted the fact that survivors continue to have many needs such as housing, medical services, etc. A copy of the report summarising the comments received as part of the consultation process is attached for your information. This can also be found on the Department’s website at the following link:
http://www.education.ie/home/home.jsp?maincat=&pcategory=10861&ecategory=10876§ionpage=12251&language=EN&link=link001&page=1&doc=54351
Having given careful consideration to the views received as part of the consultation process the Government decided to proceed to establish the Statutory Fund. The draft General Scheme setting out the main features of the Bill providing for the Fund’s establishment is available on this Department’s website and any comments/submissions made on the Scheme would be welcome and will be considered. It is the intention that the draft Bill itself will be published in the autumn and enacted by the end of the year.
In relation to support centres for survivors and former residents of institutions, in a Press Release dated 5th July last, the Minister for Education and Skills indicated that “As responsibility for information for survivors will also be taken on by the Statutory Fund, funding of survivor groups by the Department will cease.” This Department provides limited funding to groups including Right of Place, Cork for an information and referral service and the allocation of funding to groups is not based on the number of members affiliated to any one particular group. Funding provided to Right of Place is administered through the Cork City VEC and the service of a co-ordinator is engaged to monitor and oversee this funding. The Department does not fund Aislinn and funding provided by the Health Service Executive (HSE) to Aislinn and Right of Place is a matter for that organisation. Issues such as the compliance, or otherwise, with statutory requirements are the responsibility of other State agencies. For example, the Office of the Revenue Commissioners has a role in ensuring that bodies which have been granted charitable tax exemption comply with any necessary requirements. It is noted that you have already been in contact with the Charities Section of the Revenue Commissioners in regard to this matter. The Office of the Data Protection Commissioner is the State agency responsible for upholding the rights of individuals as set out in the Data Protection Acts, and enforcing the obligations upon data controllers. You may wish to consider raising your concerns in regard to the operation of the centres in regard to membership lists, etc with the Commissioner’s office.
I trust that this information is of assistance.
Yours sincerely…….
I agree with you there paddy. these ladies deserve the utmost respect from all of us . its like when we from the industriel schools are called the girls. its hurtfull.
Just to make a point, I dislike as I know many other people do, the term “Maggies’ – it would be preferable to uses terminology such as ‘Women who spent time in Magdalene laundries’ or even ‘Magdalene Women’. Please consider it for future posts/comments. “Maggies’ depersonalises the women. That’s my view. Paddy.
Hi again Paddy and readers, I just read the comment I submitted only last night and I must say that I was plesently surprised to see that it was posted just as I wrote it; and yes, with the venom feelings possibly being more clear than the message I actually wanted to pass on to you guys, but I am just so pissed at the way our own people has and is to this day treating our own people… WITH THE WORST PART BEING (as I’m seeing it) THE CONTINUED USE OF THE MAGGIES PAIN AND SUFFERING STORY TO LINE THE POCKETS OF YET ANOTHER GROUP OF USERS; WHICH MOST LIKELY INCLUDES THE T.V. AND PRINT MEDIA (WHO HAVE A MORAL OBLIGATION TO FUND LEGAL COUNSEL TO/FOR OUR MAGGIE SISTERS… MY QUESTION THEN IS.. COULD WE AS A PEOPLE HAVE SUNK THAT LOW??? (and I am hoping the answer is MAYBE NOT) AND IF NOT… WHAT THEN?
MY ADVISE TO THE SURVIVING MAGGIES WOULD BE FOR THEM TO FORM A UNITED GROUP, THEN COPYRIGHT THEIR STORY AND OFFER IT TO THE HIGHEST BIDDING PRODUCTION COMPANY…. HEY GUYS, THE MAGGIES STORY IS SO HEART RENCHING… THEY SHOULD HAVE AN AGENT, THAT SHOULD MAKE THEM VERY WEALTHY….. AND “THEY” AND THEY ALONE DESERVE IT!!!
Now, I can already hear the rumblings from the other “survivor” victims (like myself and the others who are still breathing); well, as poor as it is/was WE HAD ACCESS TO THE REDRESS BOARD.. SO PLEASE KEEP IN MIND, OUR MAGGIE SISTERS ARE STILL WAITING FOR AS LITTLE AS THAT….AND ITS JUST NOT THE WAY IT SHOULD BE.. ITS JUST NOT FAIR!!!… WE AS IRISH (as Humans) SHOULD BE BETTER THAN THAT!
Having just read the above, I believe that some may believe I am looking to (in a way) rep The Maggies? The answer to that would be NO!!! However, I would not object to being part of a “lets all help them for free” group, to explore the possibilities of making them Filthy Fn. Rich.. Which would be the accepted modern way to restore their stolen dignity… LET THEIR STORY BE TO THEIR BENEFIT; THEY HAVE BEEN USED FOR TOO LONG!!
Those of you with your heart in the right place know (from the previous posting above) how to get in touch with me directly… And if you are within hugging distance of A Maggie? Hug her for Drina and me… And help her to get in contact with us so she can choose her 27 space remembrance location number where she will hold the center space of honor, with the remaining 26 being her right to dedicate to friends or supporters of hers who would contribute directly to her for the privilege of having a memorial marker in a beautiful Irish setting, with a beautiful Irish Maggie in its center space of honor… Which Drina and I are honered to be able to provide….
AND, FOR THE SKEPTICS… NO, WE ARE NOT SELLING ANYTHING HERE…. WE ARE JUST DOING FOR THE MAGGIES EXACTLY AS WE ARE DOING FOR THE 9-11 HEROES (and the people they tried to save; with about 1/3 of those being full Irish and/or our Irish blood in their heritage) Which allowes contributers to donate to The Wounded Warrior projects, Childrens Hospitals, Cancer programs and/or whatever the particular “Center Space of Honor” designates as their special charity… THAT SIMPLE…. (as in) DO NOT SEND MONEY TO PADDY AND DRINA!!….. THIS IS JUST OUR WAY OF SAYING THANKS TO AMERICA FOR ACCEPTING US AS IMMIGRANTS WHEN WE NEEDED ACCEPTING SO MUCH; AND SUPPORTING OUR IRISH SISTERS… OUR MAGGIES; WHO NEED ACCEPTING BY THEIR OWN PEOPLE; THOSE VERY SAME, WHO HAVE A DUTY TO RETURN TO THEM THE DIGNITY THEY/WE WOULD ALL WANT FOR OUR MOTHERS… FOR OURSELVES!!
Those of you who can… DO THE RIGHT THING!
Paddy and Drina
Your’e very welcome Pauline. We all try and give whatever information we can. It’s great to have a Site like Paddy’s, where your views are not swept under the carpet, if it displeases someone. take care.
Hi to yourself Mr. Paddy Doyle and your readers
and yourself, Rob N. and J. Moy already know I (for now) live in California; and that I was a Daingean “resident” 1958-60…. and have just this year finished with the F’ed up Redress Board (where they did not even repay me for the hospital’s and surgeries cost I had paid out due to my Daingean stay; BUT I HAD “MY SAY” AND THAT IS WHAT I WANTED MOST!!)
Anyway, this next part has me feeling somewhat ashamed to let you guys know that although I have had the information available to me on The God Squad and the Shame of Ireland type sites, I am so “out of touch” with the revelant facts related to either the Statutory Fund petition or any of the other issues of the “SURVIVOR” groups that are referred to in the comments posted on this site..
BUT PLEASE DON’T TAKE THAT AS MEANING THAT I HAVE BEEN JUST SITTING ON MY ASS ABOUT SUPPORTING THE RIGHTS OF THE INSTITUTIONAL VICTIMS, AS I ONLY FOUND ABOUT THE REDRESS SCHEME IN 2008… AND DURING THE TIME SINCE THEN I (with the full support of my wife) HAVE TRIED TO GET THE CHURCH AND/OR GOVERNMENT TO FUND THE BUILDING OF A TECHNICAL SCHOOL AS A MEMORIAL TO ALL OF THE VICTIMS (FOR WHICH I DREW THE PLANS AND SENT TO THEM, AND OFFERED MY SERVICE FOR FREE!!! REPEAT, FOR FREE!!!The facts of which are on a website http://www.icvmbf.org). ON WHICH I SAY THAT “ANYONE OF THE TWO OR THREE WHO WOULD “NEED” TO SIGN A CHECK FOR IT TO BE VALID (as in) no ONE signature being enough on an outgoing “payment” check!!
And in the cases of questions and/or doubt????? WOULD BE “REQUIRED” TO TAKE A POLYGRAPH TEST… THAT’S RIGHT… “REQUIRED” TO TAKE!!! As from what I’m understanding in/from “the comments”, many seem to feel that there are “carpetbaggers” feeding out of The Blood Sweat and Tears money; and are doing so under the pretence of “We are here to help the victims”!!!….. If this is in any part true? Then the B*+tard* should not be put up against the wall and shot!! They should be F*c*in Slaughtered…… And since I could go on with more than this site could hold…
I’ll just say;
In June/11 last, The wife and I bought (and paid for in full) a lakefront property in Co.Cavan, that we dedicated to the memory of The 9-11 Heroes and “Irish institutional” victims factoring in here that the wife (who is from Chile) and I are both Irish citizens, but we are American Citizen’s too AND WE LOVE AMERICA and were planning to do a memorial in Ireland to our 9-11 victims since 2005. for details please email us at weshallneverforget@sbcglobal.net
BOTTOM LINE (for now)….
I received an email within the last week from Mr. Steven O’Re…. inviting me to look at an Irish T.V. station that was airing a program July/24 that was (in effect)supporting “The Maggies” search for justice…..
However, when I logged on to the site, I saw it as nothing more than a solicitation for a “From a Distance” d.v.d. sales, and or a “contribution” request to support The Maggies… But, our suspicion was aroused when we could not see an explanation as to how The Maggies were to receive any of the money that may be generated..which was from “THEIR” STORY OF PAIN AND SUFFERING????
? Additionally, did any of the “Contributing Artist’s” (or anyone else for that matter) ask for assurance that The Maggies would benefit financially????? We as two doubt it… WE (and many readers I’m sure) WOULD LIKE ANSWERS!!!
On a brighter note; we have dedicated a memorial site that allowes supporters of “The Maggies” to contribute financially and directly to THE “STILL LIVING” MAGGIES, by reserving a space in “Their” reserved 27 space memorial parcel… which we have dedicated to each of them…. (AND AS MANY MORE SPACES AS 450,000 SPACES CAN ACCOMODATE)… No difficulties here…As we love Our Maggies… As they are Our Sisters!! Not just then, but always!!!
To you our living Maggie Sisters, contact us directly, or via a true friend (we believe we will know the difference!!)…
Given the above, this is to you Paddy Doyle (and you too Rob Northall) We expect that you know what we are suggesting here, and we expect both of you to act accordingly…. As Drina and I are up to our ass with S.O.D’s feeding off the victims of abuse!!!
With all due respect…
Paddy and Drina.
c.c. pat.doran@sbcglobal.net, drinadoran@sbcglobal.net
And please forgive misspellings, as 1950’s Kimmage Dub. education was not as it should have been….. But we have not quit yet!!
Thanks mossie for the information.After all these years of telling people what thay want to hear how can mr walsh know anything positive about any of us . I have read how he talks of his members. poor devils thats what he called them.He and others have had 11 years and there is no change in most peoples lives. replacing the salvation army is no use to anybody. keeping people in need so that he has a reason to live is too much.the salvation army dont need him either. thay do put people up at least.
This was Michael Walsh’s Contribution to another Site.
Michael Walsh, ?First of all a big thank to you Rob for the kind welcome that I recieved on this site. Indeed to all who see a future for survivors, whatever form it takes, as long as it promotes and enhances our lives in any meaningful way. ??I have signed the petition, with the full support of our Board of Directors! ?Very briefly, one of the reasons I decided to challenge the direction of the old Right of Place was because we did not get a chance to regisrar our view on the additional money that was donated by the religious orders! We were never asked, good or bad what we had to contribute to this debate. None! A decision was made on my behalf, without my authority, and I was infuriated as was others. So we took action! I won’t bore you with the details, but suffice to say that we are now a new group with a new model of service for survivors and a desire to obtain the best there is on behalf of survivors – and only when we have a mandate to do so! ?Incidentially, you dont need our 1750 members to sign. In all our meetings when we canvassed this issue they indicated that they are against this trust fund in principle therefore you have the majority of our members demand that this trust fund be rejected in its present form, so in fact, you have an additional 1750 votes with my signiture! ?On behalf of Right of Place Second Chance we wish you continued success. ?As a survivor if I can be of assistence in the promotion of issues that support survivors then I will. ?Michael Walsh ?Chairperson Right of Place Second Chance
satya nea,
============================
At last Friday’s meeting in The Imperial Hotel in Cork. Mr Walsh was asked from the floor (Where he got this Survivors name from?) Mr Walsh could not answer. He was asked again, where did you get my name from that is on your Database; again Mr Walsh could not, or maybe, would not answer. Again the Survivor Demanded an answer, to which Mr Walsh replied, ok he said, (I will take your name off the Data-Base) The Survivor answered, I did not ask you that question, I asked you, where you got my name. But of course as usual, no answer was forthcoming.
Right of Place Second Chance, got a well deserved Grilling from Survivors at last Friday nights meeting in Cork. The usual Bullyboy tactics were exercised by Treanor, who obviously thought he would use the same line of approach he used to force his will on the (ILLEGAL) elections he pushed through last year. However, they did not realize that The Rebels from Cork stood up to their name, and had the Enemy retreating for cover, and were well prepared for them.
Their idea was to elect a Cork Committee, which incidentally we do not need or want. That was a no go area from the very start. These Parasites were not prepared for the Hot Reception that was in store for them, as The Survivors present did their homework very well, and had all the questions and answers well prepared. This is what we all want to see at any of these meetings these people will have in the future. If indeed there will be a future?
There was another Survivor pointed out an incident, where a Mother wrote in to complain, and ask, WHY she received an invitation from Right of Place Second Chance, for her Son, who had died (3) years previously. Mr Walsh replied, I will look into that. (Funny) I can recall the last Dictator of Right of Place, Noel C Barry say the same thing when someone would ask him a question, (Leave it with me, I will look into it. So it’s more of the same. Mr Walsh, we will all be watching this space to see if, indeed you will look into it, because we wont forget, and of that you may be well assured.
It will be very interesting to see the minutes of the meeting in Cork, and if they will be put up on their Web Page, or indeed if they will be put up at all? On the subject of meetings, I also noticed that Right of Place has only put up the minutes of the Waterford meeting, where they were one or two comments, saying how well it went off, and how orderly it was. I think I know the answer to that. The only reason was, anyone attending was from the Waterford region, and were all their own Survivors.
Can I ask Mr Walsh also, why the minutes of the Galway, Kerry, and Limerick meetings are not displayed on your Web Site? This is very strange indeed. But we already know that those meetings were also a Massive Flop, and maybe, just maybe, this is the reason why the minutes are not displayed.
Could it be like your Forum page on your Web Site, where you are selective in what you will allow to be put up. If it is not to your liking, then it wont be displayed? I would safely say Mr Walsh, I am the only one submitting Topics to your Site, and if you published all articles that I have submitted to date, you would need another Administrator to handle the load.
By the way Sir, all we see on your Site is (From the Administrator) who is this Elusive Administrator? Pray tell us, we are all dying to know who it is.
When all is said and done Mr Walsh. We would all have helped Right of Place in every way possible, which i think some of the Survivors pointed out at last Fridays meeting in Cork, but you lot seem to chose your own greedy way of governance. I hope you can sort it.
Technically there is nothing prohibiting Religious Orders from applying to the statutory Trust Fund for Funding? How Weird is that???
Kay
“Midland Survivors Services (Coventry UK) State it Clearly in their April 2011 News letter that they are awaiting for the Second half of this year Funding from the Statutory Trust Fund!”
as in my post above http://www.paddydoyle.com/statutory-fund-petition/comment-page-6/#comment-17624
Sing a long You Know the Words?
“What do you think of the Fund that’s meant for you and me? M-IC-K-E-Y M-O-U-S-E!!”
Thanks Paddy, glad the Minister took note of what you quite rightly pointed out and look forward to reading the minutes of the meeting, its encouraging that you found Ruairi Quinn to be a people person, like you say Paddy we shall have wait and see what the outcome will be
Thanks Again Paddy for taking the time to speak up for the otherwise non-represented…Kay
Wll understanding of the effects of abuse be about the same people. Christine buckley and a few others have been in the limelight for many years now and i dont think that thay have a clue as to what its like getting by anonamously.
I did point out to the Minister – and he noted it – that services being proposed in the Statutory Trust Fund already exist and are a there as of right to all people, be they ‘survivors’ or not. The Minister will revisit the proposed Fund and see what changes if any can be made. My own comment to The Irish Times is my honest opinion of Ruairi Quinn – it now a matter of wait and see what come back from the Minister’s office following the meeting on Friday 22nd of July 2011. Paddy.
Kay, as soon as I have the minutes of the meeting I will put them on the website. Paddy.
P.S “VICTIMS: A STATE agency that will provide compensation as well as support services to victims of abuse” Paddy was this discussed at the meeting? if so what does it mean?…Kay
I have never heard from anyone to whom i gave my details to . well i did get the same xmas card twice in 4 years. apart from that i was told that my opinion did not matter to mr walsh. this was about them sending letters to the familys in the name of thier dead ones.Of course we dont need to be refered by others. this would have been a help years ago when i left goldenbridge. but since then i have learned. and im sure its the same thing for others. what are we paying for a childrens hospital. i am a lot too old for a stay in there
Hi Paddy, this article was taken from the IRISHTIMES.COM, I don’t normally copy from newspapers, prefer to leave this for you to decide upon, but today I feel compelled to ask, why the representatives are so happy about this deal, is there something new in it that Survivors are yet to find out, because from what I can gather the services mentioned already exist and not exclusively to Survivors but to all – I’m baffled – would really appreciate it if you could throw some light on this
Kind Regards Kay
PATSY McGARRY
VICTIMS: A STATE agency that will provide compensation as well as support services to victims of abuse will be up and running by January, Minister for Education Ruairí Quinn said yesterday.
It is hoped legislation to set up the statutory fund to provide support for people abused as children in residential institutions will be enacted in the autumn, said Mr Quinn.
Speaking to victim support groups, representing people who had been in residential institutions as children, he also said the Government had decided to enact legislation to close the redress board and that the memorial to abuse victims, recommended in the Ryan report, “is to advance to competition stage”.
Set up in 2002, the Residential Institutions Redress Board, offered compensation to abused former residents of 139 industrial and reformatory schools, orphanages and children’s homes linked to the State. Since its establishment it has received 15,173 applications and has finalised 14,645 cases, of which 925 were either refused, withdrawn or resulted in no award.
Mr Quinn met the victim support groups at the Department of Education. He told them the statutory fund would focus “solely on former victims of abuse” with eligibility “confined to those who received an award from the redress board”. It would provide services or commission public agencies to do. These would include counselling, psychological support and mental health services, educational and housing services and others as required. Funding for victims’ groups, provided by the department, for the provision of information and referral services would cease and it would be open to the fund to consider financing services to abuse victims including those provided by the support groups.
To ease access, the redress board will supply details it has of award recipients. A total of €110 million will be available to the fund with €20.05 million paid over by the congregations to date. He told the groups he would work with them so all could say “that we have made a tangible difference to the lives of a great number of survivors.”
Speaking afterwards John Kelly of Soca Ireland said the Minister had been “very supportive and listened very attentively”. Every group “expressed heartfelt feelings at how the new Government behaved” where the abuse issue was concerned, he said.
Michael O’Brien of the Right to Peace group said it was “brilliant now to see a Government prepared to work with survivors and help with their needs”. He praised the Taoiseach for his Wednesday address and the Tánaiste for calling in the papal nuncio. The church, he said “has not produced one penny where survivors are concerned”. He is seeking to meet Cardinal Brady to discuss this.
Tom Cronin of Irish Survivors International was “optimistic, cautiously optimistic” after the meeting, while Paddy Doyle felt the Minister was “a very good people person” and “determined to get things moving.”
Mick Waters of Soca UK had “great confidence . . . this Minister and Government will do whatever they can
Exactly Pauline, all they will do for you is refer you to Welfare services. We do not need these Parasites. We can all access these Welfare facilities ourselves, we do not need these people, and they should All be closed down.
Do you ever get any information from Right of Place Second chance, or any group Pauline?
Right of Place Second Chance held a meeting in The Imperial Hotel in Cork on the 21st of july, they intended to elect a New Cork Committee. They got a very hostile reception from the Survivors who attended.
They thought it was going to be as easy as it was last year, when a (So Called Barrister) bullied his way through the process of elections all around the country, with the blessing of the HSE.
It was a very different show this time around. the Survivors were ready for them, and No Committee were elected. Mr Treanor, and Mr Walsh met with some fierce resistance from the floor, and left the meeting after two and a half hours, achieving Nothing.
Survivors are all fed up with the promises and Lies these people concoct, in the name of Survivors, when all they want to do is line their pockets out of sheer greed.
its time Now to DISBAND all of these groups, and also time for the HSE to cease Funding to all of these groups, once and for all.
Quinn tells congregations to pay more in reparations
By Evelyn Ring
SATURDAY, JULY 23, 2011
EDUCATION Minister Ruairi Quinn has told religious congregations they have a moral duty to pay significantly more in reparations for those abused in residential institutions.
Warning that the issue would not go away, he believed the public supported a 50/50 approach and would not regard the matter as closed until that was delivered.
“Lest there be any ambiguity, I am calling on you to significantly increase the cash offers that you have already made,” he told congregation representatives yesterday.
Mr Quinn, who described the two-hour meeting as “very positive”, wrote to 18 religious congregations earlier this month to follow up on the previous government’s call for them to meet half of the €1.3 billion bill.
The Rosminians, the Daughters of the Heart of Mary and the Sisters of Our Lady of Charity could not attend because of the timing of yesterday’s meeting.
The Sisters of Mercy did not attend the meeting because it was part of a group and pointed out they had offered €20 million to an independent fund, together with a number of properties valued at €11.5m.
“I am quite happy to have a general discussion with the Sisters of Mercy and then enter into bilateral negotiations with them,” said Mr Quinn.
He said any further cash contributions received from congregations would go towards the costs of the new National Children’s Hospital.
He said the response to individual property offers that had been made would be on a bilateral basis with his officials.
Mr Quinn pointed out that only 12 of the properties offered were of immediate benefit to the state and it was hoped to move rapidly to complete the transfer of those properties.
He said the Government wanted to explore the possibility of putting legal mechanisms in place that would provide the state with a long-term option on the school infrastructure belonging to the congregations.
Mr Quinn, who met survivors of abuse before meeting the congregations, said he wanted to dispel any notion that the proposal was driven by ideology.
“The Government’s sole aim in this is to achieve a reasonable response in terms of meeting the costs of the response to abuse,” he said.
He also wanted to make it clear that any education property transferred to state ownership would not affect current patronage arrangements.
“Such schools would remain as Catholic schools and that would not be altered without agreement. The lands, however, would be available to the state,” he said.
He said there was discussion on the degree of responsibility that each congregation might have had and it was agreed that would be established with the Redress Board.
“I am more concerned with the end result rather than the process,” he said.
This appeared in the printed version of the Irish Examiner Saturday, July 23, 2011
Well its the same as before. But whats going to change. if these people are a referal service then what has that got to do with survivers who live abroad. in different countrys things work differently. over here thay dont understand at all what the church was doing in these places. i cant go to the local services and try and explain why i need help. as many others I get by so why do the survivers in Ireland need a referal service. Whats the difference between the ones over there and the ones abroad.
Hi Mossie and All
If you read “Summary of Main Provisions of the Statutory Fund” from the “Press Release from Minister for Education & Skills – 5th July 2011”
You will find what it pays out for as stated bellow
Functions/Provisions of the Statutory Fund
The principal function of the Statutory Fund will be to make arrangements for the provision of approved services to support the needs of former residents and to pay grants to former residents to assist them to avail of approved services.
Approved services will include such counselling services, psychological support services and mental health services, and such health and personal social services, educational services and housing services as the Fund may determine.
The Fund will also promote understanding of the effects of abuse on former residents among service providers and will evaluate the effectiveness of the approved services in meeting the needs of former residents.
The Fund can consult with former residents as it considers appropriate.
Education Finance Board
The Education Finance Board will be dissolved and its functions transferred to the Fund.
No Mention of Funeral Expenses or any payment directly to ANY Survivor!
The Education Fund currently take 6 month or More to pay out this would mean that you would have to give them 6 months notice prior to your Death???
But if you read the above they will not cover it!
No Money from the Fund will go to Survivors!
Counselling Services (already funded by the H.S.E.) YES
Education YES
Housing Associations YES
Survivors Groups YES
SURVIVORS a very BIG NO!!!!
The Education Fund Currently Pays the “Service Provider” not the Survivor!
This is a ZERO more forward for the Benefit of Survivors directly and will only benefit those who provide Services for Survivors!
Yet most Survivors Groups are against the Statutory Fund?? or so they say????
Midland Survivors Services (Coventry UK) State it Clearly in their April 2011 News letter that they are awaiting for the Second half of this year Funding from the Statutory Trust Fund!
There must be others???
This is OUTRAGEOUS!
They are applying to a Fund that does not Exist!!
The Bill has not been read yet and is not Law!
Hi All. I have just returned from Cork a short time ago, after taking some members up to the meeting which was held in The Imperial Hotel on The Grand Parade. I did not go in myself, as i am not a member, but i believe the meeting was Electric, to put it mildly.
Mr Treanor (Barrister?) Ann-Marie Crean,(Outreach Officer, and Non Survivor) and Michael Walsh, (Right of Place Second Chance, Chairman, were at the top table. I believe it was Fireworks from the word go. These people did not expect to get the Hostile reception from the Survivors, as they got.
Lots and lots of questions were asked, but when the Survivors were not getting the answers, they Hastled Treanor, and Walsh, until some type of acceptable answer was received.
They were hit from all sides, and i would safely say, Treanor and Walsh were glad to see the end of the meeting, which went on for just over Two and a half hours. They thought it was going to be plain sailing as before, when they Bullied their way through the (Illegal) elections they held last year, but it was a very very different kettle of fish tonight, the Wellie was on the other foot.
It really is about time Survivors stood together, and spoke with one voice. This is what Survivors need, and you would have been really proud of them in The Imperial Hotel this evening. This is what they did tonight, and they should be proud of themselves.
At one point, Treanor, and Walsh, were told by the attendance, to go home, and dispand Right of Place Second Chance, and they were not wanted, as all they were doing was lining their pockets, off the misery of Survivors. Treanor, and Walsh, were told to their face, they were nothing but Liars, and not before time too.
One Survivor asked Treanor, if he died would the Trust Fund look after the cost of his Funeral? To which Treanor replied, ‘’ Yes, but you would have to give them prior notice’’ I ask you, what kind of an answer is that to give, from a Supposidly educated man?
I wonder, what they will have to say to The Government tomorrow in Dublin, when they go up to meet them? I would love to be a fly on the wall.
Will these Parasites ever get the message, that they are Not wanted? Survivors do Not need these people who Supposidly speak on our behalf. We all have more than enough of Right of Place Second Chance, and their Lies.
I really do hope that tomorrow The Newspapers will get a first hand account of tonights meeting in The Imperial hotel Cork, and publish the results for every Survivor to see, and read for themselves.
I am Proud of the way Survivors spoke up to these so called leaders of Right of Place Second Chance, at this evenings meeting, and i hope The Government will also hear about it before tomorrows meeting with the group leaders in Dublin. Im sure this is not the last we will hear of the goings on at this meeting, i would safely say that, Yes, the best is still to come.
Its now time to Close Right of Place Second Chance, (Once And for All) AMEN.
Hi Paddy working as usual for us,good luck with the meeting.Thanks take care.Catherine.
Well paddy off you go again to get information for all of us. Since 11 years have gone by now since these people were given the right to decide who gets help and where its normal that we ask what thay have done for the survivers of industriel schools.I am not the only one who has given my name and address hoping to be in contact with others like me but its never happened. its all deception. and no contact at all between us has been arranged. people from the same instutions would be glad to meet up. but its turned into exclusive clups from which we are excluded. its adding pain to pain. also the lists are not beeing looked into and are not up to date as kay points out. Whats the point of continuing all this. its just rumeurs in newspapers to most of us .With cake cutting and footwashing.
If you would like to send me the correspondence, then please do. It will have to arrive with me in the next few hours as I meet the Minister at 10.00 in the morning, Friday 22nd July. Paddy
Hi Paddy ,thank you for your comment’s and i think i see the point you make. My previous posting was simply to enable folk here to know of my opinion regarding other group’s who receive funding by still claiming to represent folk who are not actual member’s and should not be on their data base’s. Either because they resigned ,as i did, or because they are sadly, passed on.
Kay thank you for confirming this situation still goes on. I hope you have taken step’s to inform the Commissioner of Data Protection as i did. Paddy has kindly provided the link to his address, and i feel they should be contacted by any Survivor’s or their Spouse/Family if they also feel their data should not be in the hand’s of these group’s, for which they are still illegally claiming funding.
Paulene you indeed make a very good point there, in that simply by contacting these group’s could well mean they have another name to add to their data base! as you say yourself, you dont know if that has been done or not. As Kay, Mosse and myself have indicated, we are not member’s of ROP chancer’s, yet they still send their new’s letter’s!
Good luck at the meeting Paddy, and thank you for this site, and for raising our concern’s, much appreciated.
Jimmy .uk.
Hi Paddy,
Glad that you will be there as an independent to listen and put your forthright opinion across. As many have pointed out (including yourself) you have listened unbiased to the opinions of hundreds perhaps thousands of disenfranchised Survivors and their family members.
You have a reasonable idea of what may be acceptable to them?
I for one would like you to ask why the Formal Petition that I submitted regarding the statutory Trust Fund was dismissed so lightly; and why my other correspondence has had no reply?
If you would like copies of the Correspondence pertaining to this let me know and I will forward them to you so you can present them?
As always your friend in our Common Cause
Rob
Thanks Paddy, Your last comment has left me intrigued, can’t wait to hear what your idea is and if it works, you can most definitely speak on my behalf, as my husband used to say, “No Better Man” Good luck at the meeting..…Kay
Thats good news paddy. its very differcult after having had our names stolen or changed during our childhood to know that this is happening again.i have also tried to get the use of my name back but i dont know if it was done.Family members are important as thay live with our scars but many survivers have never had any other contact than form filling. its very cruel.
There is a meeting with Minister Ruiari Quinn and representatives of survivors on Friday 22nd July. I will be at the meeting as an independent as I’ve never claimed to represent anyone. I’ve long held the view during the 11 years this website has been running, that to represent anyone, an individual has to be mandated to do so. I do have an alternative idea which I will not publish just yet but will bring to the attention of Minister Quinn when I see him. Paddy.
Not for the first time have I posted this comment: As far as I know it’s an offence under the Data Protection Act to hold information on people without their permission and without the knowledge of the Data Protection Office. By clicking this link http://dataprotection.ie/docs/Home/4.htm you will get all the information you need and you will also be able contact the Data Protection Commissioner. The many people who use this website and who say they don’t want their names registered with any organisation and who then discover that they are registered against their wishes have the option of going to the Data Protection Commissioner. The link is given above. Paddy.
The ‘e’ has been mysteriously removed from ‘Quinne” The magic of technology. Paddy.
If we contact them in any way at all we could easily finish up as members. i noticed that if we need help we have to be members. as michael the outreach worker advises us to go to thier website in order to see whats going on i would like to remind him thay many of us live abroad so any information learned would be useless to us as we are outside the country.it should not be up to the survivers to move back to ireland. it should be the groups that adapt themselves to the needs of the survivers. otherwise there will allways be miscontentment.
P.S Shoud read Minister Quinn not Quinne-was hoping to get some low vision equipment from the 110 million – silly me!
Hi Paddy, I have written to Minister Quinn several times now and have had unsatisfactory replies both from the Minister himself and his Private Secretary, it seems that widows/widowers/spouse and family members are to be cut out of any fund, I put it to Minister Quinne and the Religious Congregation that it is the families of Survivors who supported their loved ones relentlessly during their time of need, this “divide and conquer” we talk about, also involves the Survivors attitude themselves, by making claim that only they where affected by the abuse’s that took place in the Institutions,
I’m not suggesting for one moment that Survivors didn’t have the worst deal, of course they did, just trying to point out that the family were left to pick up the pieces, and were in some cases unpaid carer’ s and victims themselves
Jimmy, like you I no longer belong to any group, my husband passed away in 2006, he Still received the June newsletter from R.O.P.S.C, so they are still claiming for him, it turns out they will be paid “Per Capita”, apart from anything else why are they claiming for U.K survivors anyway when they can only represent Members in Southern Ireland I have already notified Minister Quinne of the situation, but is anyone really listening???
Kindest Regards Kay
Delighted to be of help. It’s important that people know their rights especially when personal information is being held on them particularly when they don’t want an organisation to hold such information. Paddy.
Thanks Paddy for that useful information regarding The Freedom of Information, and the Links Attached. I do hope anyone with any doubts regarding information they think may be held Illegally, by any group, without their proper consent, will be able to access these Sites themselves, and bring the matter to the Relevant Authorities. Thanks Paddy.
Not for the first time have I posted this comment: As far as I know it’s an offence under the Data Protection Act to hold information on people without their permission and without the knowledge of the Data Protection Office. By clicking this link http://dataprotection.ie/docs/Home/4.htm you will get all the information you need and you will also be able contact the Data Protection Commissioner. Paddy.
Hi James. Thanks for your support. i had the same thing with my application for details removed from their Data-Base also, to have exactly the same thing that happened to you, happen to me also.
This is why these people need to be scrutinized properly. All i am doing is asking questions, but No one wants to answer. They talk about Truth and Transparency, but don’t exercise it.
Of course then, i am a troublemaker for doing so. It’s unbelievable.
In case i have not asked this question before, i will ask it again.
Will Mr Walsh, and his Team in Lower Glanmire Road, The group known as (Right of Place Second Chance) answer me, and All Survivors just one (1) simple question.
Where did you get your Data-Base from? and is it the very same Data-Base as your predecessor Mr Noel C Barry put together?
This is all i want to know. It’s not a difficult question to answer. please.
I await your response.
Pauline, as I’ve no contact whatever with Mr. Walsh I can’t answer you’re question. However, I will put the question to the Minister for Education and Skills, Mr. Ruairi Quinn T.D when I meet him on Friday. You could of course, as can anyone else, write to Minister Quinn at ruairi.quinn@oireachtas.ie Sorry I can’t be of more help. Paddy.
Trying to understand whats going on from a distance is very differcult.are people who went to the redress board geting housed by mr walsh. sorry paddy but i dont know thier address. in his comments he spoke of poor devils living in a house in cork. did these people go to the redress board!.
I feel it necessary to post this comment as I fear there will be a ‘war or words’ between individuals or between organisations. Such a situation would serve no purpose other than to play into the hands of people who want to see the demise of groups who say they represent people who were detained in industrial schools and other institutions where they were abused in so many ways. If questions arise about the way an organisation is run, may I suggest that questions be directed specifically to that organisation rather than get embroiled in a discussion here on this website. What I call ‘in fighting’ merely serves to ‘divide and conquer’ – that plays into the hands of some people. Paddy.
Mosse, thank you for all the information you provide, and as regards the June news letter of ROP SECOND CHANCE, I am 100% behind your observation’s, it is indeed a case of them trying to pull the wool over Survivor’s eye’s big time!
They most definitly have ulterior motive’s, and it very obvious only in their own survival interest’s.
I am most annoyed that they sent me a copy of their June news letter, even though i have in my possesion a letter from Mr Walsh assuring me that my name and details were removed from their data base,sent to me last November, but the recent delivery of this news letter indicate’s that this is a down right lie! And also prove’s that ROP are not to be trusted.
This fact make’s it very apparent to me that many former member’s of ROP are still on their data base, and armed with those names and details, not to mention the many former member’s who are no longer alive, simply to make out to the HSE and other Dept’s, that they have a large membership!In order to keep the funding coming in to them!
Well i have again notified the Commissioner for Data protection of these fact’s, as i simply do not wish to be any part of this Scheming outfit that are only out to furnish a grand lifestyle for themselve’s, at the expense of Genuine Survivor’s!
In the consultation proposal on the S/Trust Fund, it clearly state’s that funding to all group’s will cease, i would rather beleive this than anything that ROP state in their news letter’s!
If the S/T/Fund bill goes ahead, does this indicate that many group’s will fall by the wayside?
Jimmy.
atican denies ordering bishops’ silence
By Conor Ryan
WEDNESDAY, JULY 20, 2011
IN THE first sign of a reaction by the Vatican to the Cloyne report, its press officer has claimed the Holy See never instructed Irish bishops to withhold information on abuse cases.
Fr Federico Lombardi said that, instead, the Irish Catholic Bishops Conference was told at a meeting in Rosses Point, Sligo, in November 1998 that neither the Church nor its priests should impede the course of civil justice.
Fr Lombardi’s statement rejected criticism of the Congregation of the Clergy, which undermined the Irish Church’s framework child protection document in 1997 by advising that mandatory reporting of abuse allegation could be contrary to canon law.
The Cloyne report considered this intervention by the Vatican, in 1997, to be entirely unhelpful because it told the Irish bishops that the adoption of their framework document could be “highly embarrassing” for diocesan authorities.
Fr Lombardi’s statement, delivered through Vatican Radio, said that the Congregation of the Clergy was only ever told that the framework was a working document from a bishops’ committee and not the agreed position of the Episcopal Conference.
He said its response was not an invitation to disregard Irish civil law, because there was no law in place at the time to require mandatory reporting.
He also said that, in 1998, the prefect to the Congregation for the Clergy, Cardinal Castrillion Hoyos, told the meeting in Sligo that the Church should not stand in the way of criminal investigations.
Fr Lombardi said the criticism of the Vatican since the publication of the Cloyne report went beyond any comments Ms Justice Yvonne Murphy made in the document itself, which he said were more balanced.
However, the survivors’ group One in Four described Fr Lombardi’s intervention as “wholly inadequate”.
Its executive director, Maeve Lewis, said his statement was an attempt to deny the findings of the Cloyne report.
“Fr Lombardi’s response completely lacks substance and is part of the now familiar refusal by the Vatican to acknowledge that the culture of loyalty and secrecy which facilitated the sexual abuse of children extended far beyond the Irish Church and that it was supported by official Vatican policy,” she said.
“It is further evidence, if it were needed, that the Vatican’s claim to prioritise the safety of children is completely lacking in credibility.
“It underlines the importance for the Irish state to ensure that an unequivocal legal framework is in place to protect children and to punish those who withhold information or place children in danger,” said Ms Lewis.
Minister for Foreign Affairs Eamon Gilmore has already asked the papal nuncio in Ireland, Dr Giuseppe Leanza, to return to him with a full explanation on the comments made by the Vatican in 1997.
Fr Lombardi delivered his statement on Vatican Radio under the guise of a personal comment rather than an official one.
This appeared in the printed version of the Irish Examiner Wednesday, July 20, 2011
Dear Visitors of The God Squad.
I would urge any body or person on this website who has any misunderstanding or misconceptions about Right Of Place Second Chance and the work we do on behalf of Survivors to come onto our website, to ring or to visit our offices and decide for themselves the type of rightful service that they receive. It is impossible to simply judge an organisation or the work being carried out by hearsay alone. (Infact many have called, and what started out as an inquisitive phone call turned into something real positive. So much so, we will know hope to have active “sub committees” in Youghal, Cavan, Dublin, and Kildare into the future as a result of people calling and getting the information and accessing the supports available)
The comment that you left above Mossie, was after you had upset a fellow Survivor by openly lying about speaking to him and his reasons for resigning from the Board of Directors. Even after he had stated he never spoke to you, you never apologised.
Nor when another person left a comment to say how Right Of Place had helped him, you simply replied by calling him a liar – that to me is belittling a fellow Survivor.
It also amazes me that on this website you talk about why the chairman shouldn’t attend the Cork meeting (as he was from Waterford) and yet on Right Of PLace website talk negativly of the fact he didn’t attend the Kerry meeting?? But then again these are, in my opinion, petty issues when we look at what is happening this week and what these conversations detract us from.
Our Stance on the Trust Fund has always been clear and unambigous – We are against the Trust fund and believe the 110 million should go to Survivors as a cash settlement, there should then be additional long term Supports for Survivors and their families. Things like Priority in Housing / Welfare and Health to ensure the many who need support are not forgotten into the future, otherwise if it is money alone what will happen in a year, two or three years time?
In addition to this a committee can only be elected by the membership base that is there on the night and therefore it is impossible to elect our own “cronies” as the membership have complete control on any election of Regional / Local Elections. (Just as happened in our recent Regional meetings.
This will be my only comment but again I would urge anyone who has any hesitation based on things they hear, come onto our website our ring our offices and you will be offered correct and factual information. Or ring the Waterford Offices and ask for myself the number is 051 – 309364.
To Stress again we are against the Trust Fund of 110 million and are one of the few large Groups who openly state this. Now lets focus on the issue that is fundamental in many Survivors (and our members) lives – the Trust Fund and how Survivors can be strong enough as a collective to ensure your desires are achieved.
Thank you for your time,
Thanks for your comments, and support, Catherine, and Pauline. This man obviously has respect for No one, least of all Survivors. It just goes to show the Type we are all dealing with.
All i am trying to do is ask some questions, and hopefully get some sort of Accountability from these people, but it seems, if you ask questions, they don’t like, all you get is Abuse. They try and Belittle you, if they possibly can.
For a Chairman to talk to fellow Survivors in that manner, is a Total ,and Utter disgrace. A proper Chairman would not address a fellow Survivor in that manner. I shudder to think of how other Survivors are treated.
Their recent leaflet (Highlights)
Right of Place Second Chance.
Promoting Trust and Confidence amongst its members and Supporting them through Professional Staff and Elected Representatives.
They certainly do not promote any of what they Claim to, in their Newsletters, as far as i am concerned.
They are also holding a Cork Meeting on Thursday evening in The Imperial Hotel, South Mall, Cork, the 21st of July, at 7.30pm, with the purpose of electing a Cork Committee. I wonder how many Survivors will Not be told of this meeting? They also state on their Web-Site, that only members of Right of Place Second Chance, my attend the meeting.
They have already turned a member of their group away from a meeting held in Kerry a few months ago, they said he was not from the Kerry region. What an excuse. Mr Walsh seems to forget, he is from Waterford, and not Cork, he also tried to have an elected member thrown out of a meeting in Cork, he said he was not a Cork member, but a Waterford member. I could go on forever. But the real reason for not allowing the said member in, and we all know why, He was too clever for them all, and they knew it, isn’t that right Mr Walsh.
They (HIGHLIGHT) the fact that, Against the wishes of Right of Place, Second Chance, a Statuatory Fund is being put in place, and they are Interested in hearing your opinions, and voices on this. What planet are these people on? Everyone already knows, this Trust fund is already past its final stages, and Dead in the water ages ago, and is going to be implemented, no matter what Right of Place Second Chance, or anyone else for that matter says.
They also state, the Bord, which now comprises of just (3) instead of (5) are going to be meeting The Government on July 22nd, and would like to bring forward your suggestions as Survivors. I find this really really WEIRD, because since these people took over the running of that place at Lower Glanmire road, We the Survivors are sick to the teeth telling them in there, what our opinions about This Trust Fund really is. Are they Deaf or what?
Right of Place are giving Survivors a False sense when they say they are against the trust Fund, and that they are fighting Government to overturn it. They clearly stated on their Web-Site, and i will paste it in below for everyone to see for themselves.
“Therefore, Right of Place Second Chance also make the case that – not only should the 110 million be handed over to survivors immediately, but that the 450 million which the church is being asked to hand over to the state as payment for the redress which has already been paid out – should in fact be used as a health/ welfare support aid – for survivors – to aid us in our ill health and support us and our dependents in our time of need.
So that we can live with dignity and die in peace”
Now if that statement is not literally calling for a Trust Fund, i dont know what is. I will guarantee you, when these people go to meet The Government on July 22nd, you may bet your bottom dollar, they will be asking for a Trust Fund, and will tell The Government, thats what the Majority of Survivors have asked for. Of course we will never be told that by them. They are trying to give everyone a false sense that they are actually on your side, when they are NOT. They are simply going in there to secure the nice cushy jobs they already hold, and keep themselves nice and secure. They have a nice Family cartel secured, all of them.
Believe Nothing you hear from Right of Place Second Chance. They are as bad, if not Worse that the last Mob we had in there. Mr Noel C Barry and Co. And i still believe that, Mr Noel C Barry is still working behind the scenes, in the background.
I would urge any Cork member of Right of Place Second Chance to attend this meeting on Thursday evening, in The Imperial Hotel Cork, and meet, and make sure your questions are answered by Mr Michael Walsh once and for all. Also do Not be put off by his sweet talk, and if he has his Legal Team with him, do not be afraid to put your valid questions to him as well, because they are experts at Conning people. We have seen too much of this already.
No doubt they will try and elect their own Cronies to the Cork Branch of Right of Place Second Chance, it is very clear to see what these Parasites are at. They will try their best to control everything, and it is our duty to see that this does NOT happen.
Mr Walsh you are a disgrace and should be ashamed of youself.Mossie has spent 15years in 3 industrial schools who are you to speak to him like that.My wish is for you and all groups would cease to function because all you do is help yourselfs and your family’s.It is time the Irish Government and religious congregations stop funding you and all groups.
Thats awful. Well mr walsh the great dogooder well mossie and others who spent years in these places pay so that you can snob anyone who questions your right to apply to the staturary fund in order to help the invisable forgotten survivers.that shows what kind of treatment you have offered people.the ones from the industriel schools could not argue with you . you cut them down. its easy to humiliate fragile people.
This is a response, by the Chairman of Right of Place second Chance, Mr Walsh to me in a recent Posting.
Chairman 2011-06-13 16:45
mh1,I have an image of you with both of your hands over your ears and stomping the ground because your soother has fallen out!
Grow up. This site is here not to indulge your sense of victim-hood but to encourage, support and engage the very best survivors have to offer.
We all need a little help from time to time and in the present economic climate we should be all pulling in the same direction to push our case forward. We have enough elements out there putting obstacles in our way beside our owen so- called survivors, who bitch, mone, criticse and embarrass all efforts to do good.
Reply | Reply with quote | Quote
My response to Mr Walsh.
Mr Chairman. May I say something personally to you? For a man who is (Supposed) to be the Chairman, of your group Right of Place Second Chance, you have a bloody CHEEK calling me a so-called Survivor, in your last posting
Where did you concoct this Phrase? It’s in your last posting to me. If this is the way you Personally refer to Legitimate Survivors, then the outlook as I see it, is very bleak indeed.
I will have you know Mr Chairman, I spent almost 15years, in 3 Industrial Schools, and How Dare you sir refer to me as, our own so-called survivors, who bitch, moan, criticize, and embarrass all efforts to do good.
You ought to be bloody well ashamed of yourself.
I will be posting this comment onto a properly run Web-Site, along with your reply to me, so Survivors themselves can see, The So Called Chairman who supposedly speak on their behalf, and his Disgraceful Attitude to legitimate Survivors.
Also may I suggest?
If, you continue to edit out, Legitimate Comments from Survivors on your Web Site Mr Walsh, ( Then your Web-Site amounts to nothing more than Hypocrisy)
Please learn how to run an (Unbiased) Web-Siteby viewing the God-Squad Web-Site.
PATSY McGARRY, Religious Affairs Correspondent
Representatives of some of the 18 religious congregations that managed residential institutions for children investigated by the Ryan commission may not attend a meeting with the Minister for Education Ruairí Quinn next Friday in protest.
They have been invited to the meeting to discuss a €200 million shortfall in an expected 50:50 contribution by them to costs incurred by the State in compensating former residents of the institutions.
The Government is asking congregations named in the Ryan report to transfer ownership of schools to the State to help make up the shortfall.
Last week Mr Quinn said: “I’m asking them for a 50:50 contribution. The taxpayer has already paid out the bulk of it. Their share should be about €680 million and they are half shy of that . . . they need to do far more.”
The Irish Times has learned that the congregations never agreed to make a 50:50 contributions to such State costs, nor was this a recommendation of the report. It is also their intention to ensure that any additional contributions they make will go to survivors and not to the State.
Three of the larger congregations concerned, the Christian Brothers, the Sisters of Mercy and the Oblate Fathers, have ringfenced monies they intend to contribute to a proposed statutory fund for survivors.
Comments by Mr Quinn indicated that “the focus has gone off the survivors”, a well-placed congregations’ source said. “He is following a different agenda” and has “adopted an ideological position. We [the 18 congregations] are not a collective and we are not going to be treated as a collective. There isn’t even an agenda for the [Friday] meeting. We’re not going to be called in like that, to be lectured like that.”
Those who did attend would “go in, listen and say nothing. We certainly won’t be negotiating. The 2002 deal was negotiated. This one is not. We agreed a voluntary contribution and were told to do the best we can, and then in April 2010 we were told it wasn’t enough. Ruairí is no fool. He was minister for finance. He knows we’re not capable of contributing 50:50”.
The first the congregations heard about a 50:50 contribution was on April 15th, 2010, when they met then taoiseach Brian Cowen and ministers, the source said.
A press release afterwards said: “The Government view is that an ultimate outcome that reflects the conclusions in the Ryan report regarding the responsibility of the State and the religious congregations, and so resulted in the overall costs in responding to residential institutional abuse being shared on a 50:50 basis between the taxpayer and those responsible for the residential institutions, would be appropriate.” It continued that “the final cost of the response to residential institutional abuse is estimated to reach €1.36 billion. While the main element of that cost is the redress scheme, other costs include the cost of the Commission to Inquire into Child Abuse and the Education Finance Board.”
As the congregations’ source told The Irish Times that “at no point did the people present [at that April 15th, 2010, meeting] promise or commit themselves to paying 50/50”.
At that meeting “the overall cost of €1.36 billion was presented as covering the costs of the redress scheme and the Ryan commission and the Education Finance Board, a new body, details of which the congregations “do not possess”.
The source continued: “Congregations are, understandably, unclear as to why they should be held responsible for the costs of the Ryan commission, etc. They would appreciate being given the overall costs of the redress board itself as an entity.”
It was pointed out that at a Dáil public accounts committee meeting in July 2004, representatives of the congregations were told “the number of claims escalated from an anticipated 2,000 to 14,000”.
This was “despite warnings from the congregations and lawyers ([during negotiations for the 2002 deal)] that the nature of the scheme would inevitably attract many more. Yet, we, the religious are being held responsible for this miscalculation.”
It was also Government bodies that “decided that a contribution of £100 million punts (or€128 million euro) would be acceptable.”
Statement provokes near-silent response
By Conor Ryan
MONDAY, JULY 18, 2011
SCORES of people left St Colman’s Cathedral following afternoon Mass but only a handful were willing to say anything about what went on inside.
They walked passed the St Vincent de Paul collection box and towards the gate. As they did so they lifted their hands, turned their heads and apologised politely when asked to volunteer a reaction.
One after another the members of the congregation declined to comment on Archbishop Dermot Clifford’s letter of apology which had been read out during the homily.
“They are doing the best,” said one man, reflecting on the priests now in charge of the parish.
“It is terrible,” said the woman who came after him.
“I don’t have anything to say about it,” was the response of another.
Many were similarly succinct.
“We already knew what to expect,” a young woman said about the letter. “We had read all about it during the week.”
A smattering of tourists left as well, oblivious to the significance of this Sunday for the diocese of Cloyne.
There was little evidence of anger or hostility from most people.
However, one man welcomed the fact that Dr Clifford’s was an honest and fair account. He said he was glad to be able to hear it directly and not through the media.
Asked for his name he said: “Just call me a massgoer.”
One woman, Catherine O’Driscoll, was more forthright in her views.
“I accept the apology but I do believe that Bishop Magee should have been there to read the letter instead of hiding and I am disgusted with the level of abuse that went on in the church and that they knew about it but sat back and tried to cover it up,” she said.
During the Mass everybody, except for one child, sat quietly as the letter was read out by Fr John McCarthy and, it appeared, that most chose not to follow the words on the printout provided on a table near the porch.
When the basket was passed around on two occasions the amount of notes donated was a sign there was no appetite for a subtle protest.
Afterwards, with misty rain sheeting towards the door of St Colman’s, the desire of most people who left Mass was to walk away quickly rather than linger and digest the message to which they had just been party.
This appeared in the printed version of the Irish Examiner Monday, July 18, 2011
Archbishop accuses bishops of ‘hiding’ unpublished reports
By Claire O’Sullivan, Noel Baker, Conor Ryan and Kathryn Hayes
MONDAY, JULY 18, 2011
THE Archbishop of Dublin has accused bishops of “hiding” unpublished child abuse reports rather than making them public.
Referring to three such reports, Archbishop Diarmuid Martin said there was no point having documents “that were not published”.
“If the bishop feels he is being treated unjustly, publish it and then say this is unjust,” he said. “But hiding isn’t helping.”
Archbishop Dermot Clifford, who took over the running of Cloyne Diocese after Bishop John Magee stepped down, said he hoped Dr Magee, who has not appeared in public since the report was published, would come forward and “meet a media group representative” to discuss the implications of the Cloyne report.
Archbishop Clifford said an “awful lot will have to be done to make sure it [the abuse] doesn’t happen again”, but this was being tackled.
Victims have urged the Vatican to strip both Dr Magee and Monsignor Denis O’Callaghan of their titles for their failure to handle claims of abuse.
Meanwhile, it could be months before gardaí will know if criminal investigations can be launched on the back of the Cloyne report. Of the 19 priests named, 10 are dead and one has left the priesthood.
Victim support group One in Four has claimed nine out of 10 of the complaints it made to the HSE about suspected sex offenders were not being followed up.
Children’s Minister Frances Fitzgerald said the cases needed to be assessed to see if there was any current risk to children, and that the Government would make sure the cases were investigated.
This appeared in the printed version of the Irish Examiner Monday, July 18, 2011
You are so right Pauline. Those Groups like Aislinn,Soca Uk, Soca Ireland , ROP Cork , Alliance for Victims of Abuse, have all been working for the Government and Religious Abusers and well paid to cover the horrors Victims were subjected to as Babies and young children in Industrial Reformatories. Did Mrs Buckley go to the redress Board I wonder or the HIGH COURT????? did she settle for a few Euro’s ???????and Insulted and abused again at the Redress Board seen as she was the Nun’s pet I doubt it.
If i understand right the staturary fund is for the survivers who went to the redress board. But Mr walsh claims to represent the forgotten ones. but thay dident go to the redress board.there is no harm meant to anyone but if forgotten then how come Mr walsh gets funding out of the monies of the staturary fund.
You’re welcome Catherine. Its great to have a site like Paddy s where you can express your opinion, knowing that your contribution, if its not liked, it wont be published. Not like other sites i know.
Thanks both of you . mossie you are very kind in sharing information. this means a lot to me as im sure for others living abroad. and its such a nice change.Perhaps in the future there will be real teachers teaching all matters to the children of the future. These people in the church are to ready to try anything in order to hang on to the money earned dishonstly. the schools should belong to the state and as we know . nuns and priests go in for brain washing thay should be kept out of education.
Thank you Paddy and Mossie for all the information regarding the religious orders.
Orders did not offer 46 most valuable sites
By Conor Ryan Investigative Correspondent
THURSDAY, JULY 07, 2011
THE 46 most valuable education assets held by the religious orders were not offered to the state under a renegotiated redress deal in 2010.
Instead, the bulk of these high-value sites went to religious-based trusts.
The Sisters of Mercy, which held the largest asset portfolio of any of the orders named in the Ryan Report, had 117 school-related properties worth over €1 million.
It has offered to sign over seven of these as part of its contribution to the redress bill, in addition to five sites valued below €1m.
The Department of Education said that subject to some of these being suitable, it would look into transferring the assets. But it will discount the values based on grants supplied to the institutions in previous years.
The Sisters of Mercy’s renewed €127m cash and land offer did not include any of its 13 schools worth over €10m. Together, these select parcels were worth €248m.
The Sisters of Mercy and four other orders have committed to putting secondary school assets into the Ceist/Educena trusts, which will run the schools.
The Presentation Sisters are also involved in this scheme and put 36 of its schools, worth €98m, into the trust in 2007.
Similarly, the Christian Brothers put €430m in school sites into the Edmund Rice Schools Trust prior to the reopening of negotiations with the then government in 2009.
These were not assessed by the department ahead of the release of Education Minister Ruairí Quinn’s summary document.
The Presentation Brothers Schools Trust was set up to handle €21m-worth of education buildings on a lease agreement for 999 years. If the company winds up, the assets would immediately divert back to the brothers.
The two trusts and Ceist/Educena are now separate entities and it is not clear if their assets can form part of the renegotiations.
A spokesperson for Mr Quinn said he appreciates there are complex legal issues surrounding the ownership of many sites, but it was something he wished to explore in co-operation with the orders involved.
The only other school site suggested to the new redress package was put forward by the Sisters of St Clare.
This was a former primary school in Ballyjamesduff, Cavan, worth €275,000. This congregation did not provide details on the rest of its school buildings.
The Sisters of Charity had more than €60m in education sites available to it, 21 of which worth over €1m. It has made a new cash offer of €5m, of which €1m has been delivered.
The Dominican Friars chose not to put any value on its Newbridge College Campus in Kildare.
The education banks for 12 of the 18 orders named in the Ryan Report show that 46 of the sites were worth over €5m each, while 152 school premises would have been expected to sell for over €2m apiece.
Of the 13 school-based properties put on the table by the orders, seven were valued over €1m. The most attractive was the former Sisters of Mercy boarding school in Clonakilty, Co Cork, worth €4m.
This appeared in the printed version of the Irish Examiner Thursday, July 07, 2011
Orders offer just 7 of 200 lucrative schools
By Conor Ryan, Investigative Correspondent
THURSDAY, JULY 07, 2011
JUST seven of the 200 religious-run schools worth over €1 million each have been offered as part of contributions to the abuse compensation fund, it has emerged.
Figures compiled by the Irish Examiner also show none of the 46 schools worth over €5m each are on the table as part of the talks between the Government and the 18 religious orders named in the Ryan Report.
Nineteen of the more lucrative school sites are worth a combined €301m, including the Sisters of Mercy secondary school campus at Ballyroan in south-west Dublin, which has a price tag of €33.5m.
Some 15 of this order’s schools were worth in excess of €10m when its assets were assessed in mid-2009.
To date, the 18 orders have offered just 12 schools worth €18m to the state — all bar one are from the Sisters of Mercy.
The Sisters of St Clare has offered a €275,000 former primary school in Cavan.
Education Minister Ruairí Quinn told the orders their offers do not go far enough to meeting the cost of the €1.3 billion redress bill.
He said, because of the lack of offers and the unsuitability of certain properties, the religious congregations needed to find over €300m in additional cash and property.
Mr Quinn proposed that much of the gap could be bridged if the orders involved in education were willing to sign over schools to the legal ownership of the state.
This was described as a compromise that would see the orders give what is perceived to be their fair share without eating into the funds they need to care for ageing members.
Asset reports supplied to the Irish Examiner under the Freedom of Information Act show the vast amount of educational assets held by these orders did not feature in redress offers made to the state.
Instead, the orders opted to establish separate charitable trusts and transfer the bulk of their school properties to these new companies.
A spokesman for the Sisters of Mercy said it would not comment while the engagement with the minister was ongoing.
In 2010 it made an additional redress offer of €127m, which included €20m in cash.
This appeared in the printed version of the Irish Examiner Thursday, July 07, 2011
Quinn says he’ll call in bailiffs to get church abuse cash
By John Cooney Religion Correspondent
Wednesday July 06 2011
THE Government will call in bailiffs to collect a €375m compensation shortfall from 16 Catholic religious orders responsible for horrific child abuse in industrial schools.
The threat came after it emerged that only two of 18 orders have agreed to cover half the €1.36bn bill to taxpayers for clerical child abuse payouts.
In a clear warning of the Government’s intent to recoup state payouts, Education Minister Ruairi Quinn yesterday intensified the pressure on the orders to sign up to new laws allowing the State to seize assets.
Mr Quinn said he wanted congregations to agree to allow the State to identify assets and property such as schools, nursing homes, playing fields and land and legally take possession of them.
There would be blocking orders on transferring titles without prior consent of the Government, he said.
Mr Quinn added that this approach would afford the congregations the opportunity to shoulder their share of the cost of responding to abuse of children in their care.
Mr Quinn said he was disappointed at the low level of offers made since the 2009 Ryan report revealed the shocking scale of decades-long sexual, physical and psychological abuse of the most vulnerable in residential institutions.
“The congregations’ total offers fall well short, by several hundred million, of the €680m contribution they should bear towards the cost of institutional residential child abuse,” said Mr Quinn.
“In April, I called on the orders to consider handing over appropriate school infrastructure as a way to make progress towards the 50-50 target contribution. I reiterate that call now,” he said
In a statement, Mr Quinn said that only a quarter of their total property offers were of current interest to the State. The value of those 12 properties, based on the congregations’ own valuations, amounted to roughly €60m, he added.
Property
The full list of property offered includes 49 Christian Brothers’ playing fields; the Presentation Sisters’ St Bernard’s Group Home, Fethard, Co Tipperary; the Sisters of Our Lady of Charity childcare facility at Gracepark Road, Drumcondra, Dublin; and the Sisters of St Clare primary school, Ballyjamesduff, Co Cavan.
The stand-off dates back to 2002 when Taoiseach Bertie Ahern and Education Minister Michael Woods signed a controversial indemnity deal placing a ceiling of €128m on the amount to be paid by the orders.
In 2009 this was increased when the orders offered to contribute an additional €100m which was judged by the Government still to be inadequate.
In April 2010, to meet a shortfall of €200m, Taoiseach Brian Cowen and Education Minister Batt O’Keeffe told the orders to raise their offer to €375m in line with the Ryan recommendation of a 50-50 division.
– John Cooney Religion Correspondent
Irish Independent
Counting the cost of broken lives
By Conall Ó Fátharta
WEDNESDAY, JULY 06, 2011
THE offers by religious congregations to meet their half of a €1.36 billion compensation bill for victims of child sex abuse have so far fallen “well short” of what they are required to pay.
Education Minister Ruairí Quinn expressed his disappointment that only two of the 18 congregations have responded to a call last April to improve on previous contributions of €476.5 million in order to bridge a compensation shortfall of over €200m.
“Despite the state’s call for the congregations to supplement their original offers, only two out of the 18 congregations have replied positively to make up a shortfall of some €200m. One congregation has offered to give €1m towards the costs of the national children’s hospital and to refund some or all of its legal costs, while another offered to transfer a former primary school. None of the other congregations have supplemented their original offers,” he said.
The Government, as well as the Ryan Report in 2009, said the €1.36bn compensation bill should be shared on a 50:50 basis between the taxpayer and those congregations responsible for managing the institutions where the horrendous child abuse took place.
Under the 2002 Indemnity Agreement, the 18 congregations involved agreed to a contribution of €128m, comprising cash, property and counselling services.
After the 2009 publication of the Ryan Report, they proposed putting up over €100m in cash and offered to transfer property, that they valued at €235.5m, to various state agencies and voluntary organisations.
Responding to these proposals, Mr Quinn said acknowledged some progress had been made, but expressed disappointment at the offers to date.
“Of the properties offered to the state, only 12 have been identified as of potential immediate benefit to the state and these will be pursued. In fact, only a quarter of the total property offers made to date by the congregations are of current interest to the state.
“The value of these 12 properties, based on the congregations’ own valuations, is approximately €60m.”
Mr Quinn said he would ask the congregations to agree to allow the state to identify various properties and legally take possession of them. He also intends to create a legal mechanisms to ensure that title on properties can not be transferred without the prior consent of the Department of Education.
Congregations are also to be asked to transfer properties of specific interest to or currently leased by the state.
“I believe that this approach affords the congregations involved the opportunity to shoulder their share of the costs of responding to the horrendous wrongs suffered by children in their care, while at the same time, recognising the legitimate legacy of their contribution to Irish education,” said Mr Quinn.
The Government is also to proceed with a €110m trust to fund the Residential Institutions Statutory Fund to support the victims of institutional abuse.
This appeared in the printed version of the Irish Examiner Wednesday, July 06, 2011
Groups hand over €20.6m of promised €350m
By Conall Ó Fátharta
Wednesday, July 06, 2011
JUST €20.6 million of the €348.5m promised by 16 of the 18 religious congregations in the wake of the Ryan Report has been paid to date.
The Rosminian and Good Shepherd congregations said they had nothing more to contribute in addition to what they paid in 2002, as part of the €128m package agreed with all 18 congregations under the indemnity agreement.
Following the publication of the Ryan Report, 16 of the 18 Congregations offered additional contributions which they valued at €348.51m and which included various property transfer proposals, valued at €235.51m, to different state bodies and voluntary organisations.
One congregation offered 16 properties to the proposed statutory fund to support the victims of residential institutional abuse.
However, just €20.6m of this figure has been handed over, while just 12 of the properties are deemed to be of immediate potential benefit to the state.
The overall value of these properties amounts to just €60m based on the €235.51m in property valuations from the congregations. The other property offers were not considered to be of immediate interest to the state.
In relation to the offers of property to the voluntary sector, only one of the 16 properties was deemed of benefit to the state.
The remaining properties therefore cannot count as part of the contribution.
The offers of property include 49 Christian Brothers’ playing fields; St Bernard’s Group Home in Fethard, Tipperary from the Presentation Sisters; a childcare facility at Gracepark Road, in Drumcondra Dublin and the Sisters of St Clare primary school in Ballyjamesduff, Cavan, from the Sisters of Our Lady of Charity.
The Sisters of Mercy offered several schools: St Joseph’s VEC College, Carrick on Suir; the Adult Education Centre, Waterford; land at Convent Road, Cahir; Seamount Convent and College, Kinvara, Galway; Scoil Mhuire Secondary and Mercy Primary School, Ennistymon, Clare; and the Old Primary School and Hall, Trim, Meath.
The order also put forward the McAuley Centre, Kells, Meath; Beaumont Convalescent Home and grounds, north Dublin; 33 acres at the National Rehabilitation Hospital in Dún Laoghaire; and St Anne’s Lenaboy Castle, Taylor’s Hill, Galway.
Only two of the 18 religious congregations responded to a call last April to improve on previous contributions in order to bridge a €200m shortfall in the compensation they are required to pay.
One congregation, the Presentation Brothers, offered to provide €1m toward the costs of the national children’s hospital and to refund some or all of its legal costs. The Sisters of St Clare have offered to transfer a former primary school.
The remaining congregations have made no additional offers to the Government.
This appeared in the printed version of the Irish Examiner Wednesday, July 06, 2011
Statutory fund will support the former residents of institutions
By Catherine Shanahan
WEDNESDAY, JULY 06, 2011
THE Government is to proceed with legislation to establish a statutory fund with the power to arrange and grant-aid a range of services to support victims of residential institutional abuse.
The Residential Institutions Statutory Fund will be funded by the €110 million in cash offered to it by religious congregations by way of compensation to those abused in their care.
It follows extensive consultations with survivors of residential abuse and a public consultation process.
The seven-member fund will be run by a chief executive answerable to the Public Accounts Committee (PAC) and will fall within the scope of the Ombudsman and Freedom of Information legislation.
Announcing the measure yesterday, Education and Skills Minister Ruairi Quinn said more than 13,000 former residents who have received awards from the Residential Institutions Redress Board will be eligible to apply for support from the fund.
“Some former residents advocate a simple distribution of the available money,” he said.
“However, I believe that the fund should target resources at services to support former residents’ needs, such as counselling, psychological support services and mental health services, health and personal social services, educational services and housing services.”
To date, contributions of €20.6m have been received towards the statutory fund. These and the remaining contributions to be received will be invested in an investment account to be established by the National Treasury Management Agency (NTMA).
The fund will take over the functions of the Education Finance Board for abuse survivors, which will be dissolved. As responsibility for information for survivors will also be taken on by the fund, funding of survivor groups by the Department of Education will cease.
The fund will have the power to hold and dispose of land or an interest in land, and may acquire, hold and dispose of any other property. Two of its members will be former residents of institutions.
Under the proposed legislation, anyone who knowingly makes a false statement or produces a false document for the purposes of obtaining assistance from the fund will be guilty of an offence and liable on summary conviction to a fine of up to €1,500 or imprisonment for up to 6 months, or both. If convicted on indictment, the fine imposed can be up to €13,000 or imprisonment for up to 3 years, or both.
This appeared in the printed version of the Irish Examiner Wednesday, July 06, 2011
Hundreds of laundry survivors entitled to apologies and pensions, group claims
By Noel Baker
WEDNESDAY, JULY 06, 2011
THE academic leading the Justice for Magdalene group said he believed an apology from the Government was imminent and that statutory pensions should then be provided to “hundreds” of survivors.
James Smith, associate professor at Boston College, spoke yesterday, a day after presenting findings on state complicity in the Magdalene Laundries to Justice Minister Alan Shatter.
It is understood some survivors attended yesterday’s presentation at UCD’s Humanities Institute.
Using research garnered from a number of sources, Prof Smith outlined how the state was, at various points in the past century, aware that young girls and women were being detained illegally at the laundries but did not inform the residents.
Prof Smith said that, in the event of an apology being offered by the Government, some survivors would still not come forward because of the stigma.
“That does not mean that an apology would not be meaningful.”
He was, however, optimistic the Government would issue an apology, possibly around the time of the interim report into the findings made by JFM in its document Justice for Magdalenes: Narrative of State Interaction with the Magdalene Laundries.
It looks at the interaction between the laundries and numerous government departments, made a number of findings and raised more questions.
The research showed that, in 1936, the then government knew there was no statutory basis for the provision of courts to send women to the laundries.
Prof Smith also said the research indicated past governments knew the women were entitled to leave the laundries but never told them.
“The state turned a blind eye to the fact there was never a statutory basis [for it].”
Likewise, gardaí often brought women to the laundries or returned them if they tried to escape, when there was no basis for it.
The Kennedy Report of 1970 looking at the Department of Education’s role suggested many voluntary committals were “haphazard” and led to women staying for indefinite periods when they should have been dealt with through the reformatory system.
A letter sent to one survivor just this year apologises to the woman as there was only one record of her stay at the Good Shepherd Sisters in Waterford, even though records seemed to show she had been transferred there from a mother-and-baby home.
As for the work carried out at the laundries, for which no fair wages were paid, proof was found that as recently as 1982 work contracts from the Department of Defence were being issued to the laundries, although under the Factories Act 1955 these should have been treated as factories — meaning there should have been an entitlement to a statutory pension.
According to Prof Smith the laundries were never made to comply. He said he understood there were “hundreds, but not thousands” of surviving women who are now entitled to a state pension as a result, but that an apology was needed first.
A similar presentation was made later yesterday to the Oireachtas Committee dealing with the Magdalene Laundries.
This appeared in the printed version of the Irish Examiner Wednesday, July 06, 2011
€12.5m of child abuse commission’s €12.9m budget is for legal fees
By Niall Murray, Education Correspondent
WEDNESDAY, JULY 06, 2011
THE Department of Education has set aside almost €12.5 million to meet legal costs associated with the Commission to Inquire into Child Abuse this year.
Although the Ryan Commission issued its final report in May 2009, it is still working on payment of legal bills.
The department had set aside €12.5m for the commission last year to this end, but the anticipated level of costs from solicitors and barristers was not paid out.
Only €1.8m was spent on non-pay items by the commission last year and third-party legal costs totalling €21.5m had been paid up to the end of 2010.
However, that left an estimated €30m-€40m still to be paid, based on legal bills already being processed and those which had yet to be received earlier this year.
Education Minister Ruairi Quinn told the Oireachtas Select Sub-Committee on Education yesterday that the commission’s voted budget for 2011 of €12.9m is largely accounted for by the anticipated payment of legal bills. Around €500,000 is being set aside for pay costs associated with three personnel at the commission.
The Residential Institutions Redress Board has been allocated €45m this year, €4m more than it spent in awards and other payments in 2010. By the end of last year, the board had processed almost 14,400 applications from victims of abuse in residential care and made just under 13,500 awards, but the total cost of the redress scheme is still estimated to eventually top €1.1 billion.
This appeared in the printed version of the Irish Examiner Wednesday, July 06, 2011
Bill. I wasn’t making an issue of capital letters. I was merely making a point. Best wishes.
Site by laundry grave sold for €61.8m
By Conor Ryan, Investigative Correspondent
TUESDAY, JULY 05, 2011
LAND surrounding a former mass grave at the largest Magdalene Laundry was quietly sold by the order of nuns who ran it for €61.8 million during the boom.
The revelation emerged as representatives of the women imprisoned in the laundries met with Justice Minister Alan Shatter.
They discussed the new inquiry and their case for an apology, compensation and a pension for the women involved.
The Justice For Magdalenes group (JFM) said the €296m made in property deals during the boom by the four orders who ran the laundries must form part of the conversation on redress.
The Magdalene Laundry site at High Park, Drumcondra, was the second most lucrative deal involving 18 religious orders responsible for abusing children in residential homes. In total, the 18 orders made €667m in property deals between 1999 and 2009.
When the Sisters of Our Lady of Charity first sold a £1.5m tract from the same High Park campus in the early 1990s, construction workers found a grave where 133 women were buried.
In 2009, the order told the Department of the Taoiseach it had sold two more parcels of land on the same High Park site.
The larger sale was made in 2006 when Barina Construction paid €55m for a 2.7-hectare green area inside the compound.
Six years earlier, a site that housed the laundry’s Martana House was transferred for €6.68m.
When it supplied the sales data to the Department of the Taoiseach, the order asked that the information would not be circulated beyond the committee charged with examining the assets of religious congregations.
The order also informed the department it had agreed to swap its second, and smaller, Magdalene Laundry at Sean McDermott Street with Dublin City Council.
As part of the exchange, the council supplied it with a free 20-year lease for a purpose-built hostel and a new convent.
Neither Barina Construction, Dublin City Council or the Sisters of Our Lady of Charity were in a position to comment on the deals.
Yesterday, JFM and other representatives of the Magdalene survivors met with Mr Shatter for over two hours to discuss the inquiry into alleged torture.
The laundries were run by the Sisters of Mercy, the Good Shepherd Sisters, the Sisters of Our Lady of Charity and the Sisters of Charity.
JFM group spokesman Jim Smith said they were assured all departmental records would be made available to the new committee, chaired by Senator Martin McAleese.
Mr Smith also welcomed assurances the inquiry would be cleared to investigate cases where the state was complicit by failing to act as well as incidents where it paid directly for services.
Reacting to revelations in the Irish Examiner, Education Minister Ruairí Quinn said he was reopening negotiations with the congregations involved.
He said if they were not willing to provide an additional €200m towards the redress compensation, he would have to make unwelcome cuts elsewhere in the education budget.
This appeared in the printed version of the Irish Examiner Tuesday, July 05, 2011
Paddy i know what you mean about capital letters, I know i use this system as i find it easier to type as my education was not great as a surviver
i am self taught.
I cannot show these shower of conmen and gangsters any respect for what they are and have done to us abused, ripping us off with their cosy jobs and expenses. (and keeping it all in the family)and wont answer any awakard guestions.
not one statment on the monies made by the religious orders by selling properties,by r.o.p.cork. again we had to wait for the Cork Examinerto highlight same.(Of course we can all join the fishing club).not one bit of pressure on the government on the trust fund they just sit in their new offices and take the monie like (judas)
So Paddy i apoligise to you and other survivers but no way will i apoligise to these parisites
Wow and ireland is a small country. When you consider all the other countrys in which thay work and make money such as India’ the us and all the others thay make millions everywhere. But what is it for.!!!!. on this earth thay own so much space its whierd.that makes the man who represents Jesus a very very rich buisness man. and then we have all the people who work for them and keep thier vows of poverty. thay deserve to recieve thier wages and more.
Sisters for Mercy made €165m from sales
By Conor Ryan
MONDAY, JULY 04, 2011
DESPITE offloading over €670 million worth of land during the property boom, the religious orders at the centre of the redress re-negotiations retained €3.1 billion in property assets.
Even after two years of slumping property prices, the portfolios of the 18 congregations showed a substantial asset base when they were assessed in mid-2009. Many of these sites continue to raise revenue by selling services to the state.
Three of the four orders that ran the notorious Magdalene laundries have earned €86m from the Heath Service Executive in the past five years.
The review of the congregations’ assets was done after €127m had already been paid out to the survivors of abuse in residential homes. The review did not include the transfer of hundreds of millions of euro to religious-run trusts.
And it also came following a 10-year period in which an ageing and dwindling number of nuns and brothers in 17 of these orders made €676m from selling property to a frenzied market.
Education Minister Ruairi Quinn is now demanding the orders sign over €200m worth of school property so their overall contribution for compensation to abuse survivors hits €680m. The orders have so far committed to delivering €476.51m, including a cash sum of €110m towards a statutory fund for survivors of residential abuse.
The renewed deal was formulated on the basis of a review of the orders’ assets that was delivered to the Government in 2009. This involved the orders engaging valuers and consultants to pore over their vast and complex portfolios.
Parts of this were released to the Irish Examiner under the Freedom of Information Act and are reproduced today and tomorrow. These documents show that the Sisters of Mercy — the property sales of which can be seen to the right — is by far the most powerful order in terms of assets and an intriguing case study in its interaction with the state so far.
Of the orders, it made the most amount of money during the boom and diversified widely in terms of its business. It had the assets to offload at the peak of the bubble and utilised these shrewdly.
In terms of value, 44% of its deals (€72m) were done in 2006 and 2007. However. the number of trades in this period accounted for just 20% of its 195 individual transactions over the 10-year period.
These years were crowned by a €32m trade for 16 acres in Killarney and €18m for a car park at Crofton Road in Dun Laoghaire, next to its former laundry.
The Sisters of Mercy also tried to cut out the middle-man by handling its own development project, but it appears to have been stung by arriving to the market too late. In 2009, it put six houses in its Cois Abhainn development in Athlone up for sale and sold them for between €200,000 and €290,000. However, in 2009, 10 of these were still on the market with a value of €125,000 for the smaller units.
At this time, it was still active elsewhere. Despite the nationwide collapse in values, the order sold land in Castlebar for the unusual sum of €666,666 in the months before its assets were reviewed. In mid-2009 it still had land worth €1bn and financial assets of €182m. This did not include what it owned outside the Republic of Ireland.
So far, it has made a €33m contribution to the original redress scheme. On top of that, it has committed €80m in properties to the state, €15m to the voluntary sector and €31m in cash and property to the former residents of its residential institutions.
The congregation said €998m of its remaining assets were restricted and much of the ownership was in the process of being transferred to other religious entities.
Primary schools worth €256m were earmarked for transfer to the various diocesan authorities and €200m was tied up in housing its 2,088 sisters.
The bulk of its restricted property was made up of a €412m network of secondary schools that were due to be handed over to a Catholic education trust incorporating the Sisters of Mercy, the Presentation Sisters, the Sisters of the Christian Retreat, the Missionaries of the Sacred Heart and the Daughters of Charity. This trust is split into two companies: Ceist Ltd and Educena Ltd. Only three of these congregations were involved in the Redress Scheme.
During the boom, these three redress congregations in Ceist/Educena made a combined €268m from the sale of property.
Despite this, the Sisters of Mercy, the Daughters of Charity and the Presentation Sisters retained assets worth €1.7bn. In 2007, 37 of their schools were transferred to Ceist the Daughters of Charity (1) and the Presentation Sisters (36), which took almost €100m off their balance sheets. The Irish Examiner was unable to ascertain the current value of these sites or the extent of its transfers since 2009.
The most recent set of accounts for Ceist Ltd, the company established to oversee the trust, show that the trust’s assets have been kept separate from its business. Accounts filed with the Companies Office last month show Ceist Ltd was trading, had a turnover of €1.6m, but only had €557,209 worth of tangible assets. On account of its small size, it availed of a legal exemption not to make a detailed cashflow statement public. The Educena Foundation had fixed assets of less than €500.
Both were contacted in advance of this article but did not supply a spokesperson to comment.
This appeared in the printed version of the Irish Examiner Monday, July 04, 2011
I wouldnt know about survivers fighting each other. i only know that asking questions seems to really get on thier nerves. thay seem to be saying that thay devote thier lives to survivers. But which ones.if the fighting is about people asking question well thats not fighting.The mythical good work is something that was drumed into me as a child. And i dont believe it.As we all know family members all can use these groups but how many family members the group leaders have might explain things.If all of them are members well thats a lot of people.So we get ignored.no help no solidarity except on here’and no answers to any questions.
Just a short note to remind people writing to this website is always welcome but that writing in CAPITAL LETTERS IS SEEN TO BE SHOUTING. I know that is not anyone’s intention, I just mention it in passing. Best wishes.
Paddy.
HI RAYMOND, THANKS FOR YOUR REPLY.
YES I DO SEE YOUR POINT. ALL THE RELEVANT PEOPLE, IE GOVERNMENT AND OTHER INTERESTED PARTIES KNOW THIS, BUT NO ONE IS DOING ANYTHING ABOUT IT.
AS LONG AS SURVIVORS ARE FIGHTING AMONG THEMSELVES, THE GOVERNMENT DONT CARE, OR WANT TO KNOW.
THESE GROUPS ARE DOING EXACTLY WHAT NOEL C BARRY AND HIS GROUP DID WHEN HE HELD THE REIGNS.
NO ONE SEEMS TO CARE, AND THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS ACCOUNTABILITY, SO IT SEEMS. LOOK AT THE WAY GOVERNMENT IS RUN, EVERY DAY YOU HEAR OF MONIES BEING SQUANDERED IN EVERY DEPARTMENT IN THIS COUNTRY. THE WHOLE COUNTRY IS A SHAMBLES, AND WORSE OF ALL. NO ONE GIVES A DAMN.
I have posted this question on Right of place Website, but putting it up on Paddy’s Site also, in case ROP forget to put it on theirs.
Micheal,
Mh1, I thank you for your questions. We welcome any Survivor or member coming onto this website, or our Forum and asking questions.
This piece of information i copied and pasted from your recent reply to me, i am including it in my question.
Why is it then, whenever i ask a question on this site to Mr Walsh all i get is silence, and no response from him.
All i do get is Bullying tactics from some of his followers and Arrogance. You have stated that you welcome people asking questions on this site. This Sir is exactly what i am doing. Is there a problem with your Father answering relevant questioned from Survivors. If this is the case, can you explain to me, and other Survivors why this is so.
Thank you.
Mossie.
What I meant was for the people with contacts and connections, trust and credibility, to perhaps probe and inform on this platform. All this business of “alleged fraud and mis-appropriation” seems to be happening in a vacuum. Can we not be told that, enquiries are taking place, or matters are sub-judice or any news on that front? Surely with accountability so important these days when the purses are squeezed dry, SOMEBODY is looking into that! Even with the newly-elected government U-turns, there must be interest in this story of monies going the wrong way!
Personally, I am not seeking anything from anyone. I am just 100% on your side.
PAULINE, THEY ONLY PUT ARTICLES ON THIS SITE, TO CRITICIZE PEOPLE WHO GIVE THEM A HARD TIME BY ASKING QUESTIONS. YOU SEE, THEY DONT LIKE BEING QUIZZED. WHEN YOU ASK A QUESTION, YOU ARE CLASSED AS A TROUBLEMAKER. TYPICAL.
RUMOURS PAULINE IS ALL YOU WILL GET. I KNOW NO ONE WHO CAN TELL ME FOR A FACT, WHAT THAT LOT HAS DONE FOR ANYONE, FUNNY, NEITHER CAN (RIGHT OF PLACE) THEY ARE EXACTLY LIKE THE LAST BUNCH OF DICTATORS THAT RAN THAT SO CALLED GROUP IN LOWER GLANMIRE ROAD.
YOU ARE CORRECT AND RIGHT ALSO WHEN YOU SAY, (WHY DO WE NEED THESE GROUPS) THE ANSWER TO THAT QUESTION IS CATEGORICALLY (WE DONT) WE DO NOT NEED THEM AT ALL. ITS A WASTE OF TAXPAYERS MONEY, OR THEN MAYBE ALL THIS MONEY USED TO RUN THESE GROUPS IS COMING OUT OF THE SURVIVOR FUNDS? WHO KNOWS.
AGAIN PAULINE, TRY CONTACTING THAT LOT IN (GLANMIRE ROAD) MAYBE THEY WILL BE ABLE TO HELP, IF YOURE LUCKY.
RAYMOND, IF YOU ARE RELYING ON THE GOVERNMENT, OR PRESS, OR ANYONE FOR THET MATTER TO GIVE YOU INFORMATION, I’M AFAID WAITING YOU WILL BE.
THEY ARE NOT LISTENING TO SURVIVORS, THEY SEE ALL THESE COMPLAINTS EVERY DAY, BUT IGNORE THEM. THE LIKES OF RIGHT OF PLACE, AND THEIR EQUALS SEEM TO BE GETTING PLENTY OF FUNDING FROM THE HSE, AND OTHER ENTITIES, BUT GOD ONLY KNOWS WHERE ALL THIS ASSISTANCE IS GOING.
THEY CLAIM THEY ARE NOT BEING PAID FOR THEIR SERVICES, BUT THEN THEY DONT TELL YOU ABOUT THEIR VAST EXPENSES THEY CLAIM. NO, THEY WILL NEVER TELL YOU ABOUT THAT.
ALL THEY ARE, IS A REFERRAL SERVICE, AND NOTHING MORE. THEY SEEM TO HAVE A DATABASE, WHICH LOOKS LIKE IT HAS BEEN TAKEN OVER FROM THE PREVIOUS DICTATOR, AND USING IT TO CLAIM FUNDING FROM THE VARIOUS ORGANIZATIONS. BUT WHEN YOU ASK THEM TO EXPLAIN THE WHEREABOUTS THE NAMES ON THIS DATABASE WERE REQUIRED, THEY CLAM UP, AND GET OTHERS TO CRITICIZE YOU.
RAYMOND TRY ASKING (RIGHT OF PLACE) AND MAYBE THEY WILL BE ABLE TO HELP. I WISH YOU LUCK, BUT THEN AGAIN, DONT HOLD YOUR BREATH. REGARDS. MOSSIE.
GERRY? GERRY? GERRY? OR SHOULD IT BE MICHEAL, OR MICHAEL OR ANOTHER OF THE WALSH FAMILY YOUR ATTACK ON MOSSIE SOUNDS SO FAMILIAR.
REMEMBER MICHEAL WALSH ATTACKED THAT MAN MOSSIE FOR ASKING QUESTIONS ON THE ELECTION AND MISSING
AND UNACCOUNTED MONIES AND RUNNING OF ROP IN CORK AND SURPRISE SURPRISE WE FOUND OUT THAT MICHEAL IS THE SON OF MICHAEL WALSH NOW RUNNING ROP.AND NOT TOO LONG AGO GOT EMPLOYED BY HIS FATHER .WHAT A SET UP. KEEP THE GRAVY TRAIN IN THE FAMILY.
YOU MADE A BIG ISSUE ABOUT THE TWO DIRECTORS WHO RESIGNED FROM ROP .YOU NEVER MENTIONED THE INTERVIEW IN THE CORK EXAMINER BY JENNIFER HOUGH WITH MR TOM BRENNEN WHY HE RESIGNED , HOW CONVIENENT
YOU SAID YOU GOT ANSWERS FROM ROP IN CORK YOU MUST HAVE A FOUR LEAF CLOVER YOU ARE THE ONLY ONE WHO EVER GOT ANSWERS. WERE THEY THE RIGHT QUESTIONS????.NO WAY.
YOU MENTIONED 5O PEOPLE AT A MEETING IN WATERFORD NO WONDER THEY WOULD BE 50, DONT THE WALSH FAMILY AND FRIENDS OF THE FAMILY LIVE IN WATERFORD
YOU NEVER MENTIONED THE ATTENDENCE OF THE MEETING
IN KERRY WHEN YOU COULD COUNT THE ATTENDENCE ON ONE HAND.
FINALY WHILE THOSE PARASITES IN ROP ARE RUNNING THE SURVIVERS INTRESTS WE WILL NEVER GET ANYTHING. ALL THE FUNDING WILL BE DIVIDED BETWEEN THE BOARD AND THE COMMITTEES IN WAGES AND THESE NOT ON WAGES ,WILL GET IT FOR EXPENSES, SO HANG IN THERE GERRY THEY WILL INCLUDE YOU IN THE GRAVEY TRAIN SOON.
AND TO MAKE IT QUITE CLEAR I DONT KNOW THIS MOSSIE BUT ONLY FOR HIM AND OTHERS WHO ARE NOT AFRAID TO ASK QUESTIONS AND WILL NOT BE PUT OFF
BY LIES BLUFF AND INSULTS THE TRUTH WILL COME OUT IN THE END YE SHOULD ALL BE ASHAMED OF YOUR SELVES
YERE WORST THAN BARRY AND BUCKLEY
Hi Mosse, Thank you for your reply, glad you see and agree with my observation’s .It is sad that we are reduced , as Survivors, to asking questions of these groups,and not getting answers!
Like Paulene, their are thousands living abroad, alone, and there is no mention by any of these group’s of just what kind of support, advice etc , they can expect from these group’s!
Many of these folk abroad are struggling, financially and healthwise, yet receive no assistance or advice as to how to access help from the various Depts of the Government, Like the Education Finance Board, HSE, Cori, etc, when they apply for aid, they are fobbed off, or put on hold, or told of conditions that what they apply for ,simply dont qualify for the grants or assitance they seek.
Seems to me that if Survivors dont live in the South of Ireland , they dont qualify, as far as these groups are concerned, their offices , meeting places and outreach help they boast of , is of no use to us living outside these areas!
But , it still does not stop them sending us pamplets ,forms, etc ,to solicit our support, and enhance their membership, which helps them , but not us!
Most of us living abroad are now in our elder years, suffering various problems, and need the Government to give serious consideration to our request’s to be heard, to be properly redressed, and to understand that because of our current situation, a S/T/Fund would simply amount to adding to our burden, and would not serve us proper justice.
The Government need to be made aware that the current situation is not helping Survivors,it is adding further to the anxiety and distress of Survivors, by retaining the Contributions the Religious made, and not using it to redress the very folk it was intended for, the damaged and abused Children of Holy Ireland.
jimmy
HI JAMES, YES I GUESS WE WOULD BE MORE THAN CORRECT IN ASSUMING THAT THIS IS WHERE HE GOT ALL THESE NAMES OF SURVIVORS HE (CLAIMS) TO HAVE, I DONT KNOW ANYWHERE ELSE HE COULD HAVE ATTAINED THEM FROM.
AS FOR THE MUNSTER GROUP, I DONT KNOW WHERE THEY GOT THE NAMES THEY HAVE FROM, I DO KNOW THEY HAVE BEEN CANVASSING FOR SUPPORT FROM SURVIVORS, AND I GUESS AT LEAST THEY ARE ASKING SURVIVORS TO SIGN UP. WHERE AS (ROP) AS FAR AS I CAN SEE, MUST BE USING THE OLD DATABASE FROM NOEL BARRY’S ERA. WHICH OF COURSE IS TOTALLY ILLEGAL.
I GUESS THIS IS WHY, MR WALSH, AND HIS GANG ARE SO RELUCTANT TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS THAT ARE PUT TO THEM REGARDING THIS MATTER. MAYBE IT’S THE MINISTER WHO SHOULD BE INFORMED OF THIS PRACTICE NOW, AS THESE PEOPLE SEEM TO THINK THEY ARE ABOVE THE LAW.
I WOULD NOT TRUST ANYONE IN (ROP) TO TAKE MY DETAILS FROM THEIR DATABANK. YOU WILL NEVER KNOW IF THIS HAS BEEN DONE. THEY CLAIM CONFIDENTIALITY WHEN YOU ASK QUESTIONS. HOW VERY APT, NOT TO REVEAL ANYTHING.
AFTER THE WAY THEY CONCOCTED THOSE SCAM ELECTIONS PRIOR TO THEM BEING ELECTED, THERE IS (NO WAY) ON THIS EARTH I WOULD HAVE THE SLIGHTEST BIT OF FAITH IN ANYONE IN THAT PLACE, NO WAY WHATSOEVER.
THEY TALK ABOUT TRUST, THEY ARE HAVING A LAUGH. THEY CANT, AND WONT ANSWER A SINGLE QUESTION THAT’S PUT TO THEM, I GUESS THEY KNOW DAMNED WELL IF THEY DID, THEY WOULD INCRIMINATE THEMSELVES.
(ROP) ARE OFFERING NOTHING THAT IS NOT ALREADY AVAILABLE TO YOU OR ME, OR ANYONE ELSE FOR THAT MATTER. ALL THEY ARE DOING IS REFERRING PEOPLE HERE AND THERE, WHICH THESE PEOPLE CAN DO THEMSELVES.
THE FUNDING THEY RECEIVE IS INDEED A MYSTERY, AND ALWAYS HAS BEEN. WHERE IS IT SPENT, NOT ON SURVIVORS I BET. THEY ARE ALL JUMPING ON THE GRAVY TRAIN, OR SO IT SEEMS. MORE OFFICES, MEANS MORE FUNDING. WE DO NOT NEED MORE OFFICES, AS MR WALSH HIMSELF STATES, HE HOPES TO COMMUNICATE WITH SURVIVORS THROUGH HIS WEB SITE, IN THAT CASE, (WHY) DOES HE NEED MORE OFFICES? FOR WHAT?
BUT THEN AGAIN, AS PER NORMAL, MR WALSH WONT ANSWER THAT QUESTION EITHER, OH NO, WE DONT LIKE PEOPLE THAT ASK QUESTIONS NOW, (DO WE MICHAEL)
IN THE END, I PERSONALLY THINK, ALL GROUPS SHOULD BE DISBANDED, AND GOT RID OF. NONE OF THEM ARE OF ANY USE WHATSOEVER TO SURVIVORS. SURVIVORS WILL NEVER BENEFIT FROM THEM, AND ONLY THE PARASITES WHO RUN THESE GROUPS WILL BENEFIT OFF THE BACKS OF THESE SURVIVORS. END OF STORY.
Well since thay all know about this site why dont thay put information on here. as you might know we have our information on here. Ionly learnd of thier existance on here.How come.For 11 years we have heard rumeurs of things being done for us. Well what have thay done for you!!!.as far as the main body of survivers of industriel schools goes all it is is rumeurs.You seem to know so tell us about it .Why do i for example need these groups. i live by myself abroad. what is in it for me.id love to get an answer.
I love the way you put up your info with no responses that you received on the site (it is very sneaky)
I also see you agreed with the reasons as to why 1 director resigned (even though it has been proven you blatantly lied about speaking to him)
I also notice, that on the minutes of the meeting on Rop website, you fail to mention it said “all on floor agreed” about the way munster survivors have tried to recruit members…. In other words sending them out details that they have not requested and having their info held illegally….. Me things you have a vested interest in munster survivor group.
I also notice you failed to mention their was 50 people at the meeting Friday for ROP Waterford….
My goodness, how people put up with your rubbish is beyond me….. I have called the offices and e-mailed the site of Rop and got the answers, how about the people on this site do the same an make their own decisions instead of listening to this “mossie” fella Drabble on about incorrect things.
You are doing a super job at mid-leading people….. You clearly have a bee in you bonnet about the OLD ROP, but let it rest it has already been proven what the new ROP are doing for Survivors…..
Mosse, if Mr Walsh ,when taking over at ROPSC last year, also took over the Data base established by Noel Barry, are we to assume this is where he collected the 1,750 members he claims to represent?
Munster recently sent me paper work, which indicated that my name and details are on their Data base, BUT JUST EXACTLY WHERE DID THEY GET THIS FROM?
Last Oct / November i wrote to Mr Walsh and requested my name and details be removed from their Data base, he replied that this had been done. So just how my name can appear on this Munster Data base is indeed a mystery!
There are Survivors all over the world now, and as far as i can see, the only communication they get from these groups are paperwork soliciting their support, and offering impressive ideas of how their aims and visions will benifit Survivors, while it has become very apparent that the only folk down the last 10/12 years who have received funding and vast expenses, are the Chairpersons, committee and staff of these so called groups!
Enough is enough, Survivors would certainly give consideration to any outstanding group whose priority is fighting the Government on our current issue, The S/T Fund, and pushing for what Survivors have clearly indicated they want, which is for all Survivors, Magdalan and Bethany folk included, to be properly redressed from the Contributions the Religious made , FOR ONCE AND FOR ALL!
The Government moved heaven and earth to make the Queen and Obama welcome recently ,at much organisation and expense, so surely they have the know how and power to exercise this final detail of redressing the Thousands they so badly damaged?
Jimmy
Answer To Anonymous
Mr Anonymous.
If you recall me attending these meetings you talk about, you obviously were there in agreement with those people who were there, and who took over control (Illegally) I may add.
These are the people, I Totally Disagree with, and these are the people I refer to in my postings.
I sir, have no problems, whatsoever, with Survivors, and never will. We all saw how those (So Called) elections were held; we also saw that they were (NOT) conducted in a proper manner. If you did not see this, then you were one of few.
Read The God Squad Site, and you will see the numerous questions that are being asked every day. Why is there a problem with Your New Chairman, Mr Walsh, answering these questions?
All these people are Survivors also, and, Mr Walsh (CLAIMS) to represent 1,750 Survivors. Where did he get these Names? I have asked Mr Walsh, on numerous occasions this question, but never received an answer. Is this such a Secret?
Could I ask, Mr Walsh, you state in your recent (Minutes of First Meeting) “ The Leader of Munster Survivors, previously Obtained names and addresses of Members, and sent them out to Members of ROPSC. Where do you reckon Sir these names were obtained from, in your opinion?
Also, Mr Walsh, Why did you answer from a comment from the floor that, those that received Letters from Munster Survivors should write to the current MS Leader and request that their name be erased from the MS database?
Is Munster Survivors not entitled to contact Survivors, and ask for their support? At least they are asking people to join, they are not Automatically Assuming they are Members, which as far as I can see Sir, this is exactly what you are Assuming? Again Sir, do not take me up the wrong way, I am Not your Enemy, I am simply asking a question, and would like to get an answer.
Thank you for your time.
Posted to Right of Place website. Today.
Mr Chairman. You spoke of one Former member of your Board of Directors, and why he Resigned. Fair enough.
Could i now ask you Directly about the second Board member, Mr Tom Brennan, and give us all the reasons for his Resignation, (Truthfully) Please. Thank you.
CAN NOBODY GIVE AN UPDATE ON WHAT IS ACTUALLY GOING ON ?
I FIND IT HARD TO STOMACH THAT, WITH HSE, LAWYERS, AND THE STATE INVOLVED, AND MONEY BEING SCARCE ON THE GROUND, THERE IS NO PROGRESS TO REPORT !
WOULD PEOPLE WITH CONTACTS AND CONNECTIONS IN THESE PLACES (THE PRESS, THE DAIL AND DARE I SAY, THE SEANAD) PLEASE LET US KNOW?
HERE ARE JUST 3 LINKS ON THIS STORY – JUST FOR REFERENCE.
Oct 2010
http://www.examiner.ie/opinion/editorial/right-of-place–taxpayer-is-the-latest-abuse-victim-133138.html
Feb 2011
http://www.examiner.ie/ireland/controversial-abuse-charity-expands-offices-144411.html
April 2011
http://www.examiner.ie/ireland/group-for-abuse-survivors-must-report-to-hse-monthly-152337.html
We have had years of trying to be listened to all of us . these people try and pass themselves of as the ones who do things out of the kindness of thier own little hearts, but what thay do for anybody on here is a real mystery.all we read is of survivers who feel forgotten. we read in the papers of this and that but its all without us.same as when we were kids’ trust given to people to abuse as long as thay get away with it .
Michael Walsh, ROP Second chance Chairman, and Oliver Burke, Munster Chairman, were involved at one time with the original ROP when under Noel Barry, and now , after all the disruption and various allegations within the old ROP, it seems that these two are hoping to finance a cushy lifestyle for themselves , their cronies and family’s , with funding from the HSE, Religious, and Government Dept’s.
This funding , will be claimed on the strenght of names they both hold illegally, names that were once on the Data Base of the original ROP, and which they have no right or permission to now hold. As mentioned before, many of those members have resigned, and many have passed on, but it still does not , it seems, stop them from trying to solicit the support from the very folk whose names were on that old ROP Data Base.
Mosse, i also had these same differences with Rob, and that is the reason i resigned from his Shame of Ireland. I think he means well, but just does not appreciate what is taking place in the Cork area, and is possibly fooled by the fancy talk of Mr Walsh and his Son.
While their is ample evidense of these so called group leaders creating a well financed future for themselves, just exactly where have you or anyone else reading posts here, or anywhere else,actually seen evidense or proof , from Survivors who in fact were helped or assisted in any way by these groups?
The entire business disgusts me, as from where im standing , it seems that some former Survivors are doing their level best to carve out a secure future for themselves, at the cost of the Genuine Survivors they claim to represent!
The sooner the HSE and various other Government Depts, decide to listen and take note of the concerns of real genuine Survivors, the better it will be. They all need to be investigated, ASAP!
JIMMY
I POSTED THIS COMMENT ON THE RIGHT OF PLACE SITE, THEY PROBABLY WONT POST IT, AS THEY ALL SEEM TO BE BIAS ON THAT SITE, SO I WILL POST IT ON PADDY’S SITE, AS I KNOW IT IS A SITE WHERE ALL SURVIVORS ARE GIVEN A CHANCE TO AIR THEIR OPINIONS.
ROBERT, I SUGGEST YOU FIND OUT THE FACTS BEFORE YOU COMMENT ON THESE MATTERS.
I AM NOT TRYING TO DISRUPT ANYONE. IF YOU SAW THE WAY THESE SO CALLED LEADERS NOW EMBEDDED IN LOWER GLANMIRE ROAD, ( RIGHT OF PLACE) GOT INTO THE POSITIONS THEY NOW OCCUPY, YOU WOULD NOT BE SINGING THEIR PRAISES.
THEY BULLIED THEIR WAY IN THERE, WITH A (SO CALLED BARRISTER) NOT THAT I WOULD CALL HIM A BARRISTER.
YOU SHOULD ALSO REMEMBER ROBERT, YOU ARE NOT A SURVIVOR, YOU SEEM TO WANT TO MAKE A NAME FOR YOURSELF PROMOTING DIFFERENT CAUSES. I SUGGEST SIR, YOU STICK TO THOSE OTHER CAUSES, AND MIND YOUR OWN BUSINESS CONCERNING SURVIVORS.
YOU DONT KNOW, AND HAVE NO IDEA, WHY I ATTACK THESE PEOPLE. I AM NOT ATTACKING SURVIVORS, I AM ATTACKING THESE NEW, (SO CALLED) LEADERS WHO BULLIED THEIR WAY INTO (RIGHT OF PLACE) AND SAY THEY ARE THERE TO HELP SURVIVORS, WHEN ALL THEY WANT TO DO IS CLAIM EXPENSES, AND LINE THEIR POCKETS AT SURVIVORS EXPENSE.
That would be very helpful Mammy 2,7 It would do no harm, and add to the vast amount of letters, and emails Mr Kenny has been sent regarding these groups and the funding they are receiving illegally, as it is well known that they do not have the membership they claim to have!
This new latest group Munster, claim on their Facebook profile, that they are going to fight to get the Government to abandon the S/T/ Fund, yet in the paperwork they sent to me and other friends abroad in Canada and the USA , they say they are not looking for donations, as they intend to secure that from the HSE AND RELIGIOUS.
This clearly shows that that they hope to achieve the same status as Mr Walshs ROP SECOND CHANCE , which if successful, will mean two groups in the Cork area will be taken care of financially. And all at the expense of the ficticious membership they use!
Ask yourselves this question, if these groups really had this membership that they claim for, Why would they need to solicit support from my friends and i? And invite us to become members!
They were only able to send us all their bulls*** leaflets , because they had illegally high jacked our names ,and details, from another source, which in effect is a breach of Data Protection !
However these matters have been referred to the HSE,Data Commissioner, and various Government Depts! For investigation.
Jimmy
It seem’s Enda Kenny might be related to my family so I must make sure the word get’s to him about the Corupt Con Merchants who call themselves group leaders ,They are totally Mad .
You know jimmy. many of us wouldnt even know of the existence of these groups if it wasent for this site . i get all my information on here and i am sure that thats true for many of us. its horrable to know that we are being used by these people.Our human rights are being walked over again and again.
Paulene, it is not only the group, rop second chance, who got themselves established by taking over the data base of the original ROP,in order to rake in the funding from the HSE, now it seems that this other new outfit,Munster, are going the same route, armed with names ,addresses, and details they are absolutly not entitled to, as they were acquired illegally. But little do they know, they have shot themselves in the foot, the HSE, the DATA PROTECTION COMMISSIONER, the MEDIA, are being alerted to these breachs, and the situation. I in have friends the States,and Canada who are aware, and i would strongly advise Survivors to decline from giving any support to these so called group’s, they are only out to feather their own nests, and dont give two hoots about genuine Survivors. Just how the hell can they claim to provide loads of support, services, and help, when they dont even have a Membership, ? except what they have illegally obtained!
Jimmy
When are these groups going to stop. the survivers might smell of money but its only thier own interests that the others rob the state.we have been used as money spinners from the day we were condemed.we dont have a say in things in case we interfere.
A new group are emerging in Cork, calling itself MUNSTER SURVIVORS SUPPORT SERVICES. They seem to be a CLONE of ROP SECOND CHANCE. They boast the same promise’s and amazing thing’s they are going to do for Survivor’s, as uttered by ROP.
Seem’s they have somehow got their hand’s on a data base, and are currently busy in soliciting support from Survivor’s who just happen to have their name’s and detail’s on this mysterious data base, and their paperwork indicate’s they will not require any donation’s , as all funding will be achieved once they swell their membership list. No doubt this will involve the HSE and the Religious.
Since they have acquired their data base illegally, they surely are starting on the wrong foot, in contacting folk whose name’s and detail’s they hold, without their permission, and are obviously guilty of breaching the data protection act, in doing so!
Thread carefully.
Jimmy
Catherine. The Government are Not listening to The Survivors, they never were, and most likely never will. Who they are listening to are The Groups, like (Right of Place) and their equals, and No One Else. FACT.
How many more times have we to say disband all groups, will the GOVERNMENT in Ireland ever listen or pay attention to what we are saying.Thank you Paddy for all the information great website.
He won’t be able to answer that question without consulting his Legal Advisor. Because he may Incriminate himself. Isn’t that right Michael. That lady is correct. You Are All a shower of Con Artists. And that is for sure.
As far as i can understand. we are supposed to believe that people who we dont know and whose names seem to be listed by these groups’somehow deserve the help promised to the survivers of industriel schools.By questioning this it makes us out as baddies.But who gave them the right to decide. apparently the newspapers.
Please Mr Walsh give me an example of how you have helped survivors ?. Just one .
They are all a bunch of CON Merchants.
This is a recent submission by Tom Wall, Member of (Right of Place) New Board of Directors.
# tom wall (glin) — 2011-06-05 21:17
i can thrutfully say since the new board of directors has taken over the running of right of place a lot of progress has been made in that short time.i believe this new remodeling of r.o.p.s.c.will b of great help to surivours,they can now call into any of the four offices and look for the help they need and support, the new offices at limerick galway and waterford are very beneficial towards surivours and they will recieve profesional help and advice which they rightly deserve. Now that the new services are in place it is now up to surivours to assist and make use of these facilities, best wishes to this organisation going forword.tom wall,(glin).
I would like to ask Mr Wall a few questions, if he would not mind answering please.
1. I would like to ask Mr Wall, who has been a Member of (The Alliance Group) for a number of years, and Tom Hayes’s Right Hand Man, Why is he on the Board of Directors, of (Right of Place)?
2. The Governance policy of (Right of Place) is that, (You can only be a member of one group.)
3. I wonder, which one he will opt to stay with, when, The Board of Directors, find out that he has a “Big Foot” in both organizations.
4. Which group pays him the most? Which one will he remain Faithful to?
The Suspense is, killing the Survivors.
They, (The Survivors) can’t get elected to one Board of Directors, never mind two.
_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________
I would also like to ask Mr Walsh
What exactly has ROP done for Survivors, except claim expenses?
Where is The Committee, of The Cork Branch?
Can you Account for the €3.2million, spent by (Right of Place) on our behalf?
No Progress has been made for Survivors, all the time Directors, LIE to us.
The Truth, of where all the money has gone, and Public Meetings, to explain progress along those lines, would be a start to restoring Confidence.
Stop trying to cover up for your Unaccountable Finances, and call a Public Meeting to explain yourselves.
Is there any truth to the rumour that the new offices in Galway, Waterford, & Limerick, belong to the members (Staff) of the organization ?.
Anything Less is Unacceptable.
______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
I HAVE DECIDED TO PUT UP A FEW FAQ’s FROM (RIGHT OF PLACE) WEBSITE. AND MY REPLIES ARE UNDERLINED. I DO THIS, SIMPLY BECAUSE IF I PUT THESE QUESTIONS TO (RIGHT OF PLACE) ALL I WILL GET IS SILENCE, AND MY QUESTIONS WILL BE IGNORED, AS USUAL.
Are Board Members of Right Of Place Second Chance (ROPSC) paid?
Any member of the Board of Right of Place Second Chance are not paid for the work that they do. It is all done voluntary.
WHAT ABOUT THE EXPENSES YOU CLAIM FOR THESE SO CALLED MEETINGS THAT YOU DON’T SEEM TO ATTEND? I HEAR THE RATE IS APPROX €225 PER TRIP. NICE MONEY FOR DOING NOTHING.
How will I know what Right Of Place Second Chance are saying on my behalf?
The reason for the development of this website was to allow our member base to 1) Interact with each other and 2) To view any minutes from meetings or information that we send. We hope to be as open and as transparent as we possibly can be and as a result any information that we send out will be posted on this website for every member to view and to comment on.
HOW CAN SURVIVORS VIEW MINUTES OF YOUR MEETINGS, WHEN YOU DON’T HAVE MEETINGS, PLEASE EXPLAIN.
Will any decision on anything be made without my say?
No we hope to speak to our Member base through the forum on this website, amongst others, to ensure that we are truly speaking on behalf of our members.
REMEMBER – No decision will be made without our Members approval first.
AGAIN, HOW CAN YOU SPEAK TO YOUR (SO CALLED MEMBERS) THROUGH THIS FORUM? HOW MANY SURVIVORS DO NOT HAVE A COMPUTER TO ACCESS THIS INFORMATION? AND WHAT’S MORE HOW MANY SURVIVORS GAVE YOU AUTHORITY TO SPEAK FOR THEM?
Can A Survivor attend Right Of Place Meetings?
We do not claim to represent every Survivor of Institutional Abuse, only our members. As such only members of Right Of Place Second Chance and their families can attend meetings.
YOU CLAIM TO REPRESENT (1,750) SURVIVORS, COULD YOU PLEASE TELL EVERYONE WHERE YOU GOT THESE MEMBERS FROM? THIS IS NOT AN UNREASONABLE REQUEST.
Can I Leave comments without Registering on this Website?
You can leave comments on each individual news Item without registering to the website. You can also view the Forum and the discussions, however to leave a comment in the Forum you will have to register a Username and Password.
I HAVE DONE THIS ON NUMEROUS OCCASIONS, ONLY ONCE AGAIN MY COMMENTS WERE NOT PUBLISHED. WHY, YOU MAY WELL ASK, IT’S BECAUSE I WAS ASKING QUESTIONS THAT (RIGHT OF PLACE) DID NOT WANT TO ANSWER. WHENEVER YOU ASK AN IMPORTANT QUESTION TO THESE PEOPLE, YOU WILL NOT GET AN ANSWER.
WHO IS THIS PROFESSIONAL TEAM YOU SAY YOU HAVE TO SPEAK TO SURVIVORS IN (RIGHT OF PLACE)? THERE IS NO ONE IN YOUR OFFICES PROFESSIONAL IN ANYTHING, LEAST OF ALL YOU MR WALSH. ALL YOU ARE IN THERE IS MEERLY A REFERRAL SERVICE, AND NOTHING MORE. AND THAT SIR, IS A FACT.
Solicitor ordered to hand over settlement cheques
By Tim Healy
Saturday June 04 2011
A SOLICITOR who received cheques totalling €35,000 in relation to a sexual abuse settlement allegedly told the victim he would only get around €5,000, the High Court heard.
Denis McMahon, a partner in McMahon O’Brien solicitors, is facing charges of misconduct by failing to lodge the settlement cheque for €25,000 plus another for €10,000 related to the legal costs of the case.
The client had sued a religious institution over abuse when he was a child.
High Court president Mr Justice Nicholas Kearns yesterday granted orders that Mr McMahon deliver up two cheques in relation to a settlement, as well as the client’s file.
He said while it was important to point out that the court had only heard one side of the story, he considered it to be a grave matter.
Yesterday morning, the Law Society brought an application to the court to ensure it could obtain the client’s file and the two cheques immediately.
The judge adjourned the matter to next Thursday after Mr McMahon finally brought the file to court.
Mr McMahon has also been summoned to appear before the Law Society.
– Tim Healy
Irish Independent
HI PAULINE, THEY CANNOT USE YOUR NAME FOR MEMBERSHIP, IF YOU HAVE WRITTEN TO (RIGHT OF PLACE) IN LOWER GLANMIRE ROAD, AND INSISTED YOUR DETAILS BE REMOVED FROM THEIR DATABASE, YOU SHOULD ALSO INSIST MR WALSH, THE (SO CALLED CHAIRMAN) ISSUES YOU WITH A LETTER, SIGNED BY HIM PERSONALLY,STATING, THAT YOUR DETAILS, AND NAME ARE COMPLETELY REMOVED.
I PERSONALLY, WOULD NOT TRUST ANYONE IN (RIGHT OF PLACE) NO ONE AT ALL. INSIST ON A LETTER FROM HIM PERSONALLY.
THERE ARE HUNDREDS OF SURVIVORS PAULINE, JUST LIKE YOU, WHO DONT KNOW THAT THEIR NAMES ARE ON THAT (ILLEGAL) DATABASE (RIGHT OF PLACE) HOLDS.
THIS IS WHERE THEY ARE GETTING THEIR FUNDING FROM, AND YES, IT IS TOTALLY ILLEGAL FOR ANYONE TO HAVE YOUR NAME AND DETAILS ON A DATABASE, WITHOUT YOUR AUTHORIZATION.
ONCE AGAIN PAULINE, DO NOT, I REPEAT, DO NOT, TRUST ANYONE CONNECTED TO THAT (ILLEGAL) GROUP 9RIGHT OF PLACE) THEY ARE THERE FOR THEIR OWN GRATIFICATION, AND NOTHING ELSE. FACT.
Are you sure that if we log in on his site that we wont be considered members. i have tried to have my name returned to me from other groups but i have never been sure of it being done.Its bad enough knowing that i might be a member without even knowing it. i dont want to fall into any more traps.
FOR ANY SURVIVOR WHO WOULD LIKE TO LEAVE A COMMENT, AND DIRECT IT TO (RIGHT OF PLACE) ALL YOU NEED TO DO IS LOG ONTO THEIR WEB SITE, THAT SEEMS TO BE BIAS TOWARDS SURVIVORS WHO DARE TO QUESTION THEIR ANTICS.
I HAVE LEFT NUMEROUS COMMENTS ON THIS SITE, ONLY TO BE IGNORED ON MOST OCCASIONS, THIS IS WHAT YOU GET FROM THESE PEOPLE, WHEN THEY HEAR THINGS THEY DONT WANT TO HEAR, AND DONT WANT TO ANSWER. THEY HAVE A GREAT WAY OF PRAISING THEMSELVES, FOR DOING NOTHING.
ADD YOUR COMMENTS, AND LET THEM KNOW EXACTLY WHAT YOU THINK OF THEM. THEIR SITE IS, (RIGHT OF PLACE SECOND CHANCE)
I DO HOPE YOU WILL HAVE BETTER LUCK THAN I HAD, THEY WILL NEVER BE A PATCH ON PADDY’S SITE, AND THATS FOR SURE. GOOD LUCK, YOU WILL NEED IT.
Pauline ,we should’nt even have to ask many MANY times on this site WHO the likes of MR Walsh Or Buckley think they are (I know who she is as I was also in Goldenbridge and I can tell you she had far more privilages with the Nun’s than the rest of us ,WHAT HAVE THOSE GROUPS DONE WITH THE HUGE FUNDING they have been claiming in survivors names for many years and continue to claim while having done NOTHING for the real survivors they CLAIM??/ TO REPRESENT (BIG QUESTION) They Refuse to give the names of survivors they say that are on their Books ?or allow their Books to be inspected to show what they spent every EURO on ,that they claim massive funding for ,they have continued to Refuse to answer AND DISREGARD ANY QUESTION’S PUT TO THEM or communiciate in any way their silence is DEAFENING, the only way survivors can communiciate with any of those groups that is if they (so called group leaders)read posts on this or Shameofireland sites.their has been NO other way of getting any Information except on Paddydoyle.com or Shameofireland site run by Robert Northall >That we are very grateful for. As for Irish Centers in the UK who claim funding in survivors name ,that might be ok if the survivor lives near the centres which I am sure most DON’T.who in our state of health and age want’s (Or could) get on a Aircraft fly all the way to some centre in the UK or Ireland have a cup of tea leave your name and have to struggle all the way back to the Airport or Train Station for the long journey home having heard nothing new that is to REALLY BENEFIT SURVIVORS,ALL SURVIVORS MUST BE COMPANSATED TO EACH INDIVIDUAL SURVIVOR, Those Groups are just an umberella for the GOVERNMENT and CATHOLIC CHURCH TO HIDE UNDER.
THE LOT OF THEM SHOULD BE ARRESTED AND TRIED FOR
MISPLACEMENT OF FUNDS,ROBBING THERE FELLOW SURVIVORS STARTING FAMILY BUSINESSES ENOUGH IS ENOUGH
The forgotten survivors have been very convenient (WORD’s) for those WHO ANOINT THEMSELVES AS GROUP lEADERS, to take advantage of ,If The survivors are FORGOTTEN ,that means they are in the past noone know’s who they are ,where they are ,they could be Dead, or Lond Dead,or living in some far off country’s ,never having talked about their brutal childhood’s not even to their families, Noone has heard of them, So how on earth are those so called groups claiming to represent them????is completely dishonist and criminal in order that they continue blasting off about how much they care for survivors never mind how much they represent the FORGOTTEN they have only TWO word’s in mind ,CONTROL ,and FUNDING,> control Is POWER OVER, RESTRAINING, EXERCISE OVER, In other words BULLYING.
You never said a Truer word Mamma2,7. That is a mild word for those Parasites who live off the Misery of Survivors. Dont worry, their day will come, that you can be sure of.
So much for the new web site of Right of place. They will only put up an item, if its praising them. They are being Selective. Not like Paddy’s site, where both views are Portrayed.
If you dont put the articles on your site lads, we will put them up here. You have no Members, and we all know it Mr Walsh. We are contacting the necessary people at present, so dont you all think you are home and free, because you are not.
We will keep on no matter how long it takes. I will not tire, and dont you forget that.
If someone from mr walshs group could let us know how things really are it would help . not a family member then it would enable us to understand why thay exist. as things are some people seem very upset and betrayed. For the ones who do seem to be your members it would be fair to explain why the people who pay tax are fundiing you.as it is well its you blowing your own horn.
Edna Kenny please see to it that all those Groups are closed down,No more funding for any of them ,and use the Money to compansate each one of us survivors of the Industrial Schools,depending on how many years we had to suffer in those places also which years we were detained. I also wish to ask Mr Walsh how exactly is he connected to Buckley,and Mr Treanor,????????you are all Crooks
mr walsh would you answer the questions put to you .all you do is confuse the situation by your excuses, call a meeting chaired by you and (not your smooth talking liar treanor) then you will know how most of the survivers (note i said survivers not members of your elete clan and families)stand up and be a man and call a meeting
Reply from Mr Walsh, Chairman? of Right of Place Second Chance Ltd. Received today 29th of May, 2011.
(http://)Hi mh1
You ask a number of questions, but they are muddled-up, or as best confused! So it is difficult… no, quiet impossible for me to answer them. For example you begin….
"Michael could you please tell me where is the constitution, that gives the membership that (Right of Place) are claiming funds for, as the membership have (no say)whatsoever….."
I really cannot make any sense of the above question, or is it a statement? Mr Maurice Heafey (mh1)
(1) You are mixing up the company directors as being the total membership of Right of Place. This is obviously not the case. The directors are elected by the membershp to represent their views at the hightest level.
(2) The directors are volunteers who do not get paid, and who are all survivors.
(3) The directors employ survivors, dependants and professionals to work on behalf of survivors providing
* Home visitation (outreach)
* Help in accessing housing
* Health (mental and other)
* Social/recretation neworking/activities
* And much more
But you are very much aware of these activities Mr Heaphy, and the good work survivors do on behalf of one another, but you still persist in insulting both survivors and non survivors alike, being negative and generally giving out incorrect information.
I note in your comments that you get more insulting as you write, and more irrational which makes it very difficult for me to take you seriously. For example you say…
" You as chairman of that company (now)are a bigger dictator that Mr Noel C Barry ever was. At least he had the balls to meet the the membership,he pretended to represent…/quote]
Er….explain to me one thing. How could Mr Barry meet a pretend membership? Surely if it is a pretend membership then it does not exist.??? So how could he meet them!
Do I need say any more! Mr M Heaphy go back to the negative people whose views you represent and if you do engage in criticism, at least let it be constructive criticism so that we all can learn something from it. The days of slagging off survivors and people who help survivors are things of the past. Move forward for God’s sake.
Now, I don’t intend to waste any more energy replying to derogatroy and irrational comments. This organisation is about moving forward and placing the case of survivors first in all areas that will improve our lives. Nothing more, nothing less.
—–
Do not answer to this e-mail notification as it is a generated e-mail.
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
My Response to Mr Walsh Today, 29th May 2011.
Dear Mr. Walsh,
Thank you for responding.
I will try to keep my questions simple to prevent you from getting confused, and muddled up.
Question one:-
Within the Articles of Memorandum and Articles of Association for the private limited company ‘Right of Place Second Chance’;
Can the survivors, who are not listed on the Board of Directors, or who are not Subscribers to that Private Limited Company, Call meetings ?
Question Two:
Again keeping it simple.
Can the survivors who are not listed in the Articles of Memorandum and the Articles of Association of the Private limited company “ Right of Place Second Chance Ltd’ :
Can they call a ‘General Meeting’ or even an ‘Extra Ordinary General Meeting’ ??
I will be so bold as to answer the questions for you, just in case you don’t know.
The answer is obviously a resounding NO.
Survivors were led to believe they were joining an organization that supports Democracy, and would be run by Survivors, for the benefit of Survivors.
Sadly they have been fooled in supporting a Private Limited Company, set up, for the financial benefit of the Directors Only, and those they wish to employ. ( Hence nepotism and cronyism )
Without a written, “Democratically Voted Upon Constitution” to protect the members ; those who are “outside” your Private Limited Company do not have a voice.
Once again DECISIONS are being made about us, Without us.
Be Honorable Mr. Walsh, Chairperson: call a General Meeting of all survivors who believe they are members of an organization run by Survivors for the benefit of Survivors and give them a Constitution they can believe in. This would put an end to this once and for all.
If necessarily , I will help you to write it.
I note that you did not answer the question regarding the Attendance for the Meetings held in Galway, and Limerick, which i believe were a total Flop. We would all like to know what the Attendance was. We know that a very very tiny number of people were in Attendance. We also know why?
The Private Limited Company, ‘Right of Place Buildings Project Limited’ that has subsequently been renamed ‘ROPSC, Ltd,’ has to be answerable to Survivors for the enormous unaccountable funds, as reported in the Examiner.
You as Chairman of that Company now, took on the responsibility of accountability, whether you know it or not.
You had a Golden opportunity to set the highest standard of Governance, and yet you choose NOT to support your Treasurer and Secretary when they demanded accountability. This is the sole reason these people resigned, and Not for the reasons, stated by you. We have that from these people, themselves. So please Mr Walsh, don’t tell the Survivors Lies.
How can you now pretend to be representing the interests of Survivors, and ask for their support, when you are only in it for the money. You don’t get paid but, your Son is drawing a Hefty wage on your behest, topped up by your own expenses.
It is also obvious from your response, that you do not understand ‘Plain speak’ , and yes! the truth hurts. You do not have the integrity to continue as Chairman. I hope this sentence is devoid of vulgarity and do take it seriously.
The above criticism was not meant to be constructive but, it represents the opinions of hundreds of Survivors who have deserted the organization since you took over as Chairman.
I, Mr Walsh, am insulting no one, least of all Survivors, but i will not stand by and let you, or anyone else for that matter, try and pull the wool over Vunerable Survivors, with your fancy talk, and words. Because you are not fooling me.
You still have not answered my question regarding the names, and other information, you hold on this Database, which (Supposedly) hold the Membership you say you represent.
I will ask you again Sir, is this the same Database that the last Chairman of ROP used? Now this is a very simple question to answer. All you have to do is answer, Yes or No.
You cannot claim to represent (1,750) Survivors that you have never met. And you still have not indicated when you will hold your first meeting?
Could you tell the Survivors also Mr Walsh (why) when a Member of ROP travelled to the meeting in Kerry recently, Chaired by Mr Francis Treanor, the said Member was refused entry? This Member Sir, is one of the Survivors, who your Company, (Right of Place Second Chance Ltd,) claims funds for, from the HSE. I cannot for the life of me understand that.
If i Sir, as you so put it, am (Giving out the wrong information), i would ask you; as i am sick and tired of doing; to correct me, by (Rectifying my mistakes) and giving us all the Correct information. You Sir, is the one omitting the Wrong Information, and most of the time, giving none.
All you do is criticise me for asking questions that you do NOT want to answer.
I Sir, am finding it Totally Impossible to take you seriously, Mr Walsh. You are supposed to be the (Chairman of Right of place Second Chance Ltd) but Mr Francis Treanor, (A Barrister) goes around the country holding meetings in Galway, and Limerick. I am led to ask myself this question Sir. ( Who is actually running this Company? ) Is it you, Mr Walsh, or Mr Francis Treanor? This not a very Difficult question to answer Sir, ( IS IT?
I see also, we still have no Committee in any of the regions? Why i ask? Maybe you don’t want to have to answer them either? Quite posssibly.
I will explain your query also, regarding Mr Barry, and his Pretend Membership, as you put it.
You are correct in asking, If it is a Pretend Membership, then how can it exist, here is how.
Whatever way Mr Barry obtained the names of Survivors he held on this Controversial Database, is first and foremost very questionable.
We all know he held meetings from time to time in different places around the country, and also in Great Britain, and most probably may have got his Database together by getting those attending these meetings to sign their names and addresses on a Sheet of paper before entering the meeting. It is indeed one way of doing this, without rising suspicion.
This however, would (NOT) give him, and does (NOT) give him, the right to use these names, and data, to concoct a Database for his Company, and use same to go to the HSE, and VEC, to secure funding for these (So Called) Survivors he represents.
These Survivors were never represented, and as far as i can see, they never will be. As Mr Treanor so put it before. (WE ARE A NON ENTITY, WE HAVE NO RIGHTS PER SAY ) Which simply means basically, (WE DON’T MATTER) And we never will.
This is why i am questioning the Legality of that so called (DATABASE) ROP holds.
Meet the Survivors Sir, you claim to represent, and are getting Funding to help, and let them ask you the questions i am asking, and Stop Hiding. Come Clean, or is this too much to ask?
I will not finish in the same Dictatorial manner you did Mr Walsh but, I wish you well in whatever difficult decisions you have to make in the very near future. RESIGN.
Thank you for your kind attention in listening to the very serious concerns from Survivors, and for posting on the website what could be construed as a controversial but honest viewpoint.
It takes b…s ( anatomical parts ) to do so.
Mosse, thank you for the information update about ROP meetings, attendance ,etc. I suggest you relate all this to the Examiner, who will hopefully see the need for a thorough investigation of this outfit, who are, (if your fact’s are correct,) committing a crime in claiming funding for a membership they dont actually have!
I firmly beleive the Media are the best chance we have of addressing the situation with these so called group’s, they have the mean’s to expose them, and perhap’s get the HSE to stop dishing out money to them, while they make such an investigation, and get all the true fact’s.
It is very apparent that many of these group’s are enjoying the funding they receive, ALL off the back’s of the member’s they claim to represent, but what is not , and never has been, apparent, is evidence from any Survivor who has been helped by these so called group’s!
Keep up the good work.
Jimmy
Well you know and we know that thay are having a great time being treated as VIPs. its gratifying for them but thay are doing what thay like. Because every time there has been questions from anybody thay change the subject.when i mentioned the survivers from the industriel schools it became about thier choisses as to who was to benefit from the staturary fund. the relatives and the forgotten survivers. But how the forgotten survivers got on lists there is no answer.this kind of treatment is still not aknowlaged by the media.Or a little bit . but not enough for the government to take any notice .
MOSSIE THANK YOU FOR THE ABOVE IMFORMATION
IT JUST SHOWS THE GANGSTERS WE ARE DEALING WITH.
ONCE F TRANER WAS MENTIONED IT WAS ENOUGH FOR ME
AS I REMEMBER HIM IN ACTION IN CORK WITH HIS LEGAL
JARON AND BULLYING I THOUGHT HIS WORK WAS FINISHED
WHEN THIS NEW COMMITTEE WAS IN PLACE (WORSE THAN THE LAST ONE) HE WOULD STEP DOWN WITH N BARRY AND HIS HENCHMEN, BUT SURPRISE SURPRISE I SEE HE IS BACK ON THE GRAVY TRAIN.
WE THE SURVIVERS ARE TOO QUITE WE JUST LISTEN TO WALSH AND FAMILY HIS FRIENDS AND NON SURVIVERS
WITH ALL THEIR LIES AND BULLS!!!t.
remember they are all on salaries and perks,
while members SUFFER AND DIE,
ITS TIME SOMETHING WAS DONE ABOUT THE LOT OF THEM
ONCE AND FOR ALL.
MICHAEL, COULD YOU PLEASE TELL ME, WHERE IS THE CONSTITUTION, THAT GIVES THE MEMBERSHIP THAT (RIGHT OF PLACE) ARE CLAIMING THE FUNDS FOR, AS THE MEMBERSHIP HAVE (NO SAY) WHATSOEVER?
ACCORDING TO THE COMPANY’S, ( MEMORANDUM OF ASSOCIATION) DOCUMENT, IT’ MEMBERSHIP IS COLLECTIVELY CONSISTING OF THE GRAND TOTAL OF (7) MEMBERS? BUT STATES ALSO, THE DIRECTORS, MAY FROM TIME TO TIME REGISTER AN INCREASE OF MEMBERS.
HOWEVER, AFTER GOING THROUGH THE DOCUMENT, I DO NOT SEE ANYWHERE IN THE SAID DOCUMENT, WHERE ANY MORE MEMBERS HAVE BEEN REGISTERED WITH THE COMPANY, (RIGHT OF PLACE, SECOND CHANCE LIMITED). WHICH LEAVES ME TO BELIEVE ABOVE ALL REASONABLE DOUBT, THAT THE SAID COMPANY (CANNOT) CLAIM TO REPRESENT THE (1,750) MEMBERS THEY CLAIM THEY HAVE.
ACCORDING TO THE MEMORANDUM OF ASSOCIATION, THE TOTAL MEMBERSHIP OF THE SAID COMPANY, STANDS AT THE GRAND TOTAL OF (7)
NOTHING HAS CHANGED IN THE NEWLY REGISTERED COMPANY, (RIGHT OF PLACE SECOND CHANCE).
YOU ONCE REMARKED, STATING THAT YOU HAD (NO SAY) IN THAT COMPANY, WHEN MR NOEL C BARRY WAS THE CHAIRMAN (DICTATOR) AND MAKING DECISIONS ABOUT YOU, WITHOUT YOU.
YOU, AS THE CHAIRMAN OF THAT COMPANY, (NOW) ARE A BIGGER DICTATOR THAN MR NOEL C BARRY EVER WAS. AT LEAST HE HAD THE BALLS TO MEET THE MEMBERSHIP, HE PRETENDED TO REPRESENT, WHERE AS (YOU DONT)
YOU CONTINUE TO HIDE BEHIND, MR FRANCIS TREANOR, YOUR OUTREACH CO-ORDINATOR.
RIGHT OF PLACE, IS (NOT) A GROUP FOR SURVIVORS, WORKING FOR SURVIVORS, BUT A (PRIVATE LIMITED COMPANY) EMPLOYING A SELECTED FEW SURVIVORS, AND (NON) SURVIVORS FOR THEIR BENEFIT ONLY.
YOIUR TRACK RECORD TO DATE MR WALSH REGARDING YOUR RECENT MEETINGS IN THE REGIONS ARE AS FOLLOWS, (KERRY) ATTENDANCE (8) (GALWAY) ATTENDANCE (6) (LIMERICK) LESS THAN BOTH KERRY, & LIMERICK COMBINED. (CORK) (0)
AT THIS RATE, THE HSE ARE SUPPORTING AN OVERALL (SUPPOSED MEMBERSHIP) OF LESS THAN(14)
AND I HAVE IT FROM A VERY RELIABLE CONTACT, THAT IN ALL (3) MEETINGS HELD BY MR FRANCIS TREANOR, (AND NOT BY YOU) FOR SOME STRANGE REASON THAT, MOST OF THOSE SURVIVORS THAT ATTENDED THOSE MEETINGS, LITERALLY WALKED OUT IN TOTAL DISGUST. PLEASE EXPLAIN?
UN committee urges state to set up Magdalene probe
By Jennifer Hough
TUESDAY, MAY 24, 2011
A UN committee urged the Government to set up an independent investigation into human rights violations in the Magdalene Laundries and give redress to the women who suffered because of the institutions.
The United Nations Committee Against Torture (UNCAT) said the women should be given an apology as an acknowledgement of what happened so they could “get their dignity back”.
Members of UNCAT yesterday asked government representatives in Geneva about its intentions to investigate the Magdalene laundries abuse promptly, impartially and comprehensively, in accordance with its obligations under Articles 12 and 13 of the convention against torture and other cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment.
The committee also requested information from the state as to how it will ensure redress and compensation for the women who suffered in the laundries, in line with its obligation under Article 14 of the convention.
Justice for Magdalenes (JFM), the survivor advocacy group, calling on the Irish Government to act immediately and initiate an independent investigation into human rights violations suffered by the women.
JFM spokeswoman, Claire McGettrick, said the state could fulfil its responsibilities by obtaining reparations from the Catholic Church for its part in the women’s abuse. She said the majority of survivors are elderly, and adversarial models of inquiry and redress would have the opposite effect of adding to their pain and sense of injustice.
Maeve O’Rourke, who presented JFM’s submission to the committee, said UNCAT, along with the Irish Human Rights Commission, had taken an extremely serious view of the abuse of women and girls in the Magdalene Laundries and the state’s responsibility for it.
“Yesterday’s comments by the committee members unequivocally recognise the rights of the women who are still alive to an investigation, an apology, redress and treatment with dignity.”
Meanwhile, a delegation from the Bethany Home survivors group will today meet Education Minister Ruairi Quinn at Leinster House
Derek Leinster, chairman of the group, said he was very grateful to the minister for agreeing to meet with them. The delegation will put its case to the minister in the hope that the Bethany Home is included in the Redress scheme, which awards compensation to victims of institutional abuse.
Last year unmarked graves of 219 Bethany children who died between 1922-49, were discovered in Mount Jerome Cemetery, Dublin 8, by Bethany researcher Niall Meehan.
This appeared in the printed version of the Irish Examiner Tuesday, May 24, 2011
Read more: http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/un-committee-urges-state-to-set-up-magdalene-probe-155560.html#ixzz1NFOIszqA
Ps , why does he call his website >one in 4??is that he believes only one in fore was abused that say they were?? just wondered , whatever compansation or benefits he recieved for his sexual abuse >those survivors like Paddy and others who were forced as babies ,young children to live their childhoods with the Sadists is a totally different thing the government should have no hesitation in making sure we are compansated properly one thousand time more than he got.The Statuary Fund must be giving to the Survivors of Industrial Schools.that is what it was for in the first place, every one of those Groups is jumping on the bandwagen.They have been Useless and a waste of the real survivors rightful compansation .
Mr O’ Gorman is NOT a survivor , He was not in an Industrial Reformatory as a baby or young child ,his case is totally different , Survivors of Industrial Reformatories were Condemed and sentenced to spend the whole or most of our childhoods in Reformatories where we were forced to live 24 hours a day for all our childhoods or mose with The the Sadistic Abusers.and Must be Compansated for that brutiality. most of us live in different countries all over the World Not just in Ireland or the uk ,many have died already So the Statuary Fund will be of NO benifit as most of us who are still alive have NOT had any help so far 2011 nor any Information from those so called services or useless Groups in all the years they have been claiming funding in our name to keep their business’s going only for their own benifit Ie their Fat Bank accounts.We want to be Compansated individually for the suffering and loss we were forced to suffer which has effected our lives. those so called services and groups have been a Total Waste of Money .
Why are the Clergy going to this meeting since its about the needs of thier victims. if thay knew or cared we would have known by now .The needs of most people from the instutions are very easy to understand. thay could try respect for a start and stop all the empty promesses.Idont know mr o garmon. was he in an instution when he was abused. Mossie thanks a lot for sharing your information. i hope no one minds me asking about mr gormon. if so excuse me .
O’Gorman to address top clerics in Rome on abuse
By Claire O’Sullivan
FRIDAY, MAY 20, 2011
ONE of this country’s most vocal abuse victims has been invited to Rome to address some of the world’s top archbishops and bishops on how best to respond to victims of clerical abuse.
Colm O’Gorman, who was abused by Fr Sean Fortune in the diocese of Ferns in the 1980s, is the first survivor to have received an invitation specifically to discuss the Church’s response to such complaints.
It’s understood that more than 100 clerical and lay representatives working in the field of child protection will attend the Anglophone Conference in Rome this summer.
Last year’s Anglophone Conference was scheduled to take place in Athlone but was cancelled and transferred to Paisley in Scotland.
Dublin Archdiocese Auxiliary Bishop Eamon Walsh will also attend as will the director of Child Protection and Safeguarding, Andrew Fagan. It’s believed six clergy and lay people will represent Ireland.
Yesterday, Mr O’Gorman, who was speaking in a personal capacity, said his speech to the conference will address “effective listening, the experience of those who have been abused by priests and their bad experiences with the Church’s response”.
“There are challenging things that need to be said. I value frank engagement and I expect the church leaders will question me so that we have a frank upright conversation. Often with church leaders, you find a strong sense of concern but that does not necessarily lead to meaningful engagement thereafter,” he said.
Last year, Mr O’Gorman was one of a number of survivors who met American Cardinal Sean O’Malley as part of Pope Benedict’s Apostolic Visitation to this country.
This appeared in the printed version of the Irish Examiner Friday, May 20, 2011
Read more: http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/ogorman-to-address-top-clerics-in-rome-on-abuse-155193.html#ixzz1Ms0BwYbk
Magdalene case goes to UN
By Claire O’Sullivan
FRIDAY, MAY 20, 2011
THE advocacy group seeking justice for women kept at Magdalene laundries will today take their campaign to the United Nations Committee Against Torture.
Earlier this week, Minister for Justice Alan Shatter told the Dáil that his department has prepared a draft submission for the Government on the Magdalene laundries and he intends bringing it to Cabinet in early June at the latest. The HSE has also drawn up a report on the laundries for the minister’s consideration.
“I expect to be in a position to make certain announcements after my colleagues in Government have had an opportunity to consider the matter. I hope matters will be advanced in a positive and helpful way as a consequence of the proposals that will be brought forward,” Mr Shatter said.
Maeve O’Rourke from the Justice for Magdalenes (JFM) group is due to make a verbal submission to the UN Committee Against Torture in Geneva today, where she will tell the panel that former residents still alive today, continue to suffer degrading treatment in violation of Article 16 of the UN Convention Against Torture (UNCAT).
JFM estimate that tens of thousands of women were sent to the laundries. Many of them are dead.
Ms O’Rourke will also argue, by refusing to investigate and ensure redress for survivors, the state is disregarding its obligations under UNCAT Articles 12-14.
“They have received no apology from the state, no investigation, no redress, and no compensation for their abuse. They receive no pension for their unpaid labour,” said.
Between 1922 and 1996, 10 Magdalene laundries operated here, run by four Catholic orders of nuns.
JFM is arguing the state had a role to play in the laundries as it knew children were imprisoned there and were supplying child labour. They have also shown state policy required the transfer of ‘repeat’ unmarried mothers from state-funded mother and baby homes to the unregulated laundry institutions. It has also harshly criticised the state for not forcing the religious orders to release their detailed records on Magdalene detainees.
In November 2010, the Irish Human Rights Commission said there is sufficient evidence of state responsibility for unlawful imprisonment, servitude, forced labour and cruel and degrading treatment, and called for a statutory inquiry into human rights violations at the laundries.
This appeared in the printed version of the Irish Examiner Friday, May 20, 2011
Read more: http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/magdalene-case-goes-to-un-155194.html#ixzz1MryZTVUr
When i was a child in an instution we were told constantly about the good work of the church. but i have never seen anything done by the church that i admire. now we hear from these people that thay have taken thier place and are doing the good work. And once again its about themselves.We are told that thay are caring for the forgotten survivers.Or the ones who did not go to the redress board but who are these people.It seems that thay use thier places to include all people who were in instutions. its being turned into a charity which is gratifying for them and the governement. but the story of the slaves in industriel schools is disapering under all the rest. and its with the help of these groups
The Latest Information.
He is the ‘Area Support Co-coordinator’ in charge of the outreach workers, with the top salary.
Who are we talking about, Mr Francis Treanor.
So much for a man who said he would not have anything to do with the running of the organization as soon as the elections were finished. He is now running the whole show on the ground.
Question?
Did the Board of Directors (or the HSE) guarantee him the Top Job once the elections were finished?
The whole process of appointing the Co-coordinator and Outreach Workers for the Private Company now has to be ‘Questioned’ as to the integrity of the Board members.
The Son of the Chairman is appointed ‘”Outreach Worker” and (NOT) a Survivor.
The drinking partner of Noel C. Barry (who is NOT a survivor) get’s his daughter appointed ‘Outreach Worker’.
Edel Tracey (again NOT a Survivor) but we know the nepotism link, also gets appointed ‘Administrator’.
Now to cap it all Frances Traenor (Barrister) has the appointment of ‘Area Support Co-coordinator’.
The whole PRIVATE COMPANY of “RIGHT OF PLACE/BUILDINGS PROJECT’ “STINKS”!!!!!!!
Survivor’s needs and this privately run company will never look after the welfare of the Survivor.
They are using Company Law, to secure funding from the HSE under the guise of a ‘Survivor Group’.
Has the Barrister given up his practice to manage this private company?
Is this why he was down in Kerry last weekend?
As the Area Support Co-coordinator (as advertised in the leaflet) he is suppose to be the ‘communication channel’ to the survivors.
Obviously, he failed completely at the meeting in Kerry, where the membership walked out on him, after telling him that the private company ‘Right of Place Buildings Project’, is nothing but a joke, and are interested only in offering jobs for the boys.
The company is still registered as ‘Right of Place Buildings Project’, and THE PRIVATE COMPANY is employing whom they like.
Shame on the HSE for funding a private company who offer no support services to the Survivors and whose only interest is to secure jobs for FAMILY and FRIENDS, of the Board of Directors. SHAME ON THEM AND SHAME ON THE HSE.
Also Patrick Cleary the fellow who was the Secretary on the Board of Directors (he resigned) is now working in the Waterford branch for 10 hours a week on €110.
Obviously Michael Walsh feels sorry for him and has given him a job.
Did he resign, because, you cannot work for the company while you are a member of the board of directors?
The whole company stinks.
The only thing that mr walsh appears to say is that he gives empathy to the survivers he knows. So we can suppose from that is that he has permanent contacts. But who are thay . he talks of the care he gives to the forgotten survivers. but the people who were in industriel schools are now in thier 50ths or 60ths and most have taken care of themselves. were the members of the groups in industriel schools. the only way to know is by them giving out the names and ages of the people whom thay do help . its been said why leave out people in need. well because its not charity its redress.
WELL STATED BILLY, IT SEEMS THAT MR WALSH IS INDEED A PROPER COWARD, AND NOTHING MORE, TO HAVE TREANOR GO OUT AND DO HIS DIRTY WORK FOR HIM.
YES TREANOR IS THE ( SO CALLED) BARRISTER, THE HSE SUPPOSEDLY HIRED TO SORT OUT THE NEW BOARD OF DIRECTORS. AND WE ALL SAW FIRST HAND HOW HE CONDUCTED THOSE (ILLEGAL) MEETINGS HE WENT AROUND THE COUNTRY TO CONDUCT. IT WAS NOTHING SHORT OF A FARCE.
HENCE, WE HAVE A WORSE DICTATOR IN PLACE NOW, THAN WE HAD PREVIOUSLY. SO WE CAME OUT OF THE FRYING PAN, AND INTO THE FIRE. WE ARE WORSE OFF NOW THAN WE EVER WERE.
WAS ANYONE IN KERRY THE OTHER EVENING WHEN TREANOR, AND SOME OTHERS FROM (RIGHT OF PLACE, LOWER GLANMIRE ROAD) HELD ANOTHER (ILLEGAL) MEETING? I WOULD LIKE TO HEAR WHAT THE MEETING WAS ABOUT. THOUGH I HAVE HEARD OFFHAND THAT IT WAS A COMPLETE WASTE OF TIME, AND THEY WERE HECKLED, AND THE MEETING WAS A COMPLETER WASTE OF TIME.
YES MR TREANOR, WAS THE ONE WHO WAS SUPPOSED TO STAND DOWN AFTER THE (ILLEGAL ELECTIONS) HE HELD LAST YEAR, BUT NOW IT SEEMS HE WAS LYING WHEN HE TOLD US THAT, AS HE CHAIRED A MEETING IN THE KERRY REGION LAST WEEKEND, I WONDER WHO GAVE HIM PERMISSION TO DO THAT? IT COULD ONLY HAVE COME FROM OUR SO CALLED LEADER MR WALSH, WHO OBVIOUSLY IS SCARED OUT OF HIS WITH TO HOLD ONE, BECAUSE HE KNOWS WHAT THE OUTCOME WILL BE.
WHAT HAPPENED TO THE CHAIRMAN OF THE NEW BOARD OF DIRECTORS, MR WALSH. HE DIDN’T EVEN HAVE THE GUTS, OR THE DECENCY TO CHAIR THAT MEETING HIMSELF. SOME BLOODY LEADER.
I WILL ASK YOU AGAIN MR WALSH, GET OFF YOUR BACKSIDE, AND FACE THE ( SO CALLED MEMBERSHIP) YOU PURPORT TO REPRESENT.
I SEE F TREANOR IS BACK AGAIN TO ADVISE THE WALSH
MAFIA LIKE HE DID N BARRY AND HIS HENCHMEN
REMEMBER TREANOR WAS ONE OF THE GROUP OF REPS
WHO SAT DOWN WITH BARRY BUCKLEY AND THE OTHERS
AND AGREED WITH BIFFO TO SET UP A TRUST FUND
MR FRANCIS TREANOR, (THE BARRISTER) WHO WAS TO STEP ASIDE, ONCE THE SO CALLED ELECTIONS OF THE NEW BOARD OF DIRECTORS FOR THE GROUP (RIGHT OF PLACE SECOND CHANCE) WAS FINISHED, IS NOW CHAIRING MEETINGS IN (KERRY) AND ATTENDING TO THE BUSINESS OF (RIGHT OF PLACE) IN THE CORK OFFICE, WITHOUT THE KNOWLEDGE OF THE SURVIVORS. ILLEGALLY.
A MEETING OF THE (NON EXISTING KERRY BRANCH) OF (RIGHT OF PLACE) WAS HELD IN TRALEE LAST EVENING. THE MEETING WAS CHAIRED BY (MR FRANCIS TREANOR) A NON-ELECTED MEMBER OF THE BOARD OF DIRECTORS. ALSO ON THE TOP TABLE WERE ANN MARIE CREAN, (OUTREACH OFFICER) AND (NON SURVIVOR). EDEL TREACY, WHO IS THE ELUSIVE (ANMINISTRATOR) FOR THE NEW (RIGHT OF PLACE SECOND CHANCE) WEB SITE. AGAIN, A (NON SURVIVOR)
I BELIEVE, THE TOTAL PERSONS THAT ATTENDED THE MEETING WAS (8) THOSE THAT ATTENDED, INFORMED THE TOP TABLE, THAT THE KERRY BRANCH OF (RIGHT OF PLACE SECOND CHANCE) DOES (NOT EXIST)
THERE IS (NO COMMITTEE) FOR THE CORK, AND KERRY BRANCHES, AND IT IS NOW MORE QUESTIONABLE THAN EVER, WHETHER ANY SO CALLED MEMBERS EXIST AT ALL FOR THOSE BRANCHES.
FRANCIS TREANOR, AND COMPANY, WERE ALSO INFORMED THAT THE ORGANIZATION OF (RIGHT OF PLACE SECOND CHANCE) IS NOW AN UTTER, AND TOTAL DISGRACE, AND THAT ALL SURVIVORS ARE COMPLETELY DISGUSTED WITH THE CARRY ON OF THIS MYSTERIOUS GROUP. ALSO WITH THE (NON SURVIVORS) BEING EMPLOYED BY THE COMPANY, WHO HAVE NO UNDERSTANDING, WHATSOEVER, OF THE NEEDS, OR THE WANTS, OF THE SURVIVORS.
I WOULD LIKE TO ASK MR FRANCIS TREANOR, WHO IS (NOT) ON THE BOARD OF DIRECTORS OF (RIGHT OF PLACE SECOND CHANCE) WHO GAVE HIM PERMISSION TO HOLD MEETINGS IN KERRY LAST EVENING, AS HE HAS (NO) BUSINESS WHATSOEVER, OR NO AUTHORITY, TO DO SO. PLEASE EXPLAIN SIR.
IS THE (SO CALLED) CHAIRMAN, MR MICHAEL WALSH, AND THE OTHER TWO REMAINING DIRECTORS LEFT ON THE BOARD, AFRAID TO GO OUT, AND MEET, THE (SO CALLED) MEMBERSHIP THEY CLAIM TO REPRESENT? AND ALSO AT A COST OF €192,000 FOR THE YEAR 2011 TO SUPPORT IT?
COME OUT FROM BEHIND MR TREANORS CLOAK, MICHAEL WALSH, AND MEET THE SURVIVORS, WHO YOU SAY ELECTED YOU.
YOU HAVE (NEVER) YET MET YOUR (SO CALLED MEMBERSHIP) FROM THE CORK, KERRY, LIMERICK, AND ALSO THE UK. YET YOU, AND YOUR SON CLAIM ENORMOUS SUMS OF MONEY, FROM THE HSE, AND OTHERS, IN THE NAME OF THE SURVIVORS? THIS I FIND VERY VERY STRANGE INDEED?
I WILL ASK YOU AGAIN MR WALSH, COME OUT FROM BEHIND THE TAIL OF MR FRANCIS TREANOR, AND HAVE THE COMMON DECENCY TO TACKLE THE RESPONSIBILITIES, YOU HAVE SO DECEPTIVLY OBTAINED.
WHY ARE YOU USING MR FRANCIS TREANOR, A (BARRISTER) TO DO YOUR DIRTY WORK FOR YOU? ARE YOU NOT CAPABLE OF DOING IT YOURSELF?
COME OUT (YOU COWARD) AND FACE YOU’RE (SO CALLED MEMBERSHIP) ALL SURVIVORS ARE EAGERLY WAITING TO MEET YOU.
YOUR (ILLEGAL DATABASE) THAT YOU POSSESS SIR, IS BECOMING MORE AND MORE QUESTIONABLE, DAY BY DAY, AND I THINK IT’S ABOUT TIME THE RELEVANT AUTHORITIES BE ADVISED ON IT’S WHEREABOUTS, AND HOW, AND WHAT IT IS BEING USED FOR. ALL SURVIVORS ARE FED UP TO THE HILT TRYING TO GET SOME SORT OF ACCOUNTABILITY ABOUT, YOU, AND YOUR (ILLEGAL GROUP) THAT CALL THEMSELVES, (RIGHT OF PLACE SECOND CHANCE)
THIS WHOLE SAGA SIR, IS MOST CERTAINLY NOT BASED ON (TRUTH) AS YOU HAVE HIGHLIGHTED ON YOUR WEB SITE, AND IT’S HIGH TIME IT ALL STOPPED.
HI PAULINE, YOU CAN ASK THEM ANYTHING YOU LIKE, TILL YOU ARE BLUE IN THE FACE, BUT ALL YOU WILL GET IS SILENCE. THE REASON FOR THAT IS, THEY KNOW EXACTLY THAT THEY ARE DOIND NOTHING WHATSOEVER FOR ANYONE, ONLY THEMSELVES. AND YOU MAY BE ASSURED, THEY HAVE BEEN WELL AND TRULY BRIEFED NOT TO SAY ANYTHING FOR FEAR THEY MAY INCRIMINATE THEMSELVES.
ALL THEY ARE OFFERING ON THEIR NEW WEB SITE, IS ALREADY IN PLACE, AND ANYONE CAN GET IT THROUGH THE SYSTEM. ALL OF THOSE SERVICES ARE ALREADY IN PLACE, AND THEY MOST CERTAINLY CANNOT
TAKE ANY CREDIT OF ANY KIND FOR THAT.
I AM NOT SURPRISES TO HEAR THEM TELL YOU THAT YOU ARE ENTITLED TO YOUR OPINION. HE WILL NEVER TELL YOU WHAT HE HAS DONE FOR ANYONE OF THE SURVIVORS, AND HE WILL CLAIM (CONFIDENTIALITY) THAT JUST ABOUT COVERS EVERYTHING. IN OTHER WORDS, I CANT ANSWER THAT, IT’S PRIVATE AND CONFIDENTIAL.
I CANNOT UNDERSTAND HOW HE SHOULD HAVE BEEN SHOCKED, WHEN YOU ASKED HIM TO JUSTIFY HIMSELF. WHO DOES HE THINK HE IS? IF SOMEONE IS SPEAKING ON MY BEHALF, I MOST CERTAINLY WOULD WANT TO KNOW, (WHO ASKED HIM TO DO SO)
MR WALSH HAS, (NO MANDATE WHATSOEVER) TO SPEAK FOR ANY SURVIVOR. NO ONE HAS ELECTED HIM, AND HE HAS GOT HIMSELF, AND HIS SON IN THERE BY SHEER DECEPTION, AND BULLYING.
THE REASON NO ONE HAS ANY INFORMATION IS VERY SIMPLE, THEY DONT GIVE YOU ANY. AND HE HAS SOME CHEEK TO SAY TO YOU, THAT IT’S YOUR FAULT. HOW DARE HE.
THE QUESTION IS PAULINE, WHAT HAS (RIGHT OF PLACE SECOND CHANCE) DONE FOR SURVIVORS. ANSWER, SWEET DAMN ALL. ANYTHING THEY DO IN THAT PLACE, IS DONE FOR THEMSELVES, AND NO ONE ELSE. THE SURVIVORS DONT MATTER, AND THAT HAS ALWAYS BEEN THE CASE. WHERE DID WE HEAR THIS STATEMENT FROM BEFORE?
ALSO PAULINE, NO ONE IN THOSE OFFICES IN LOWER GLANMIRE ROAD, HAVE THE QUALIFICATIONS, THE KNOW HOW, OR SKILLS, ON HOW TO DEAL WITH THE MULTIPLE PROBLEMS THE SURVIVOR HAS, AND THAT IS A FACT. THAT IS WHY MR WALSH IS NOT LISTENING TO US, AND IGNORING OUR QUESTIONS, BECAUSE HE CANNOT ANSWER THEM, END OF STORY.
TAKE CARE PAULINE, MOSSIE.
I know what you mean Mossie. i asked them both on the other site. what exactly do thay offer survivers other than what is available for all the people. instead of an answer i was told that i have a right to my opinion. but as to his group no answer at all . just about the shock he felt about us asking him to justify himself. the dad and the son seem to think that if we have no information its our fault. and then i was asked what have i done for survivers. its not a vocation to centre our lives around others like us. we dont have the skills to work with damaged people.nor does mr walsh otherwise he would be listening to us instead of ignoring questions. dont forget there are also the aunts and oncles and the cousins.
HAVE BEEN READING QUITE A LOT OF COMMENTS LEFT ON PADDY’S SITE FOR THE LAST HOUR OR MORE, AND I HAVE NOTICED ONE THING.
OF ALL THE QUESTIONS THAT WERE CONTRIBUTED BY THE VARIOUS SURVIVORS, AND INCLUDING MYSELF, MR WALSH, AND HIS SON THE ( OUTREACH OFFICER) FOR THE WATERFORD REGION, HAVE NOT ANSWERED ONE OF THE QUESTIONS.
MICHEAL I WAS NOT TOO FAR OUT WHEN I SAW THROUGH YOUR LITTLE PLOY, TRYING TO PASS YOURSELF OFF AS JUST ANOTHER SURVIVOR, WHEN BEHIND IT ALL YOU WERE GIVING SUPPORT TO YOUR FATHERS POSITION. YOU CERTAINLY ARE KEEPING IT IN THE FAMILY.
I SUGGEST YOU LOOK BACK THROUGH SOME OF THE POST’S YOU PUT ON THIS SITE, AND STAND BY WHAT YOU MAKE YOURSELF OUT TO BE? YOU ARE NOT ACCOUNTING TO ANYONE BUT YOUR FATHER. WHAT HAVE YE BOTH DONE FOR ANY SURVIVOR TO DATE? NOTHING I WILL BET.
ALL I SEE, IS TOTALLY DISGRUNTLED SURVIVORS, ASKING QUESTIONS OF YOU ALL IN THAT SO CALLED (RIGHT OF PLACE) AND NO ONE GETTING ANSWERS. YOU HAVE NOT ANSWERED ANYONE. WHY?
YOU ARE OBVIOUSLY AFRAID THE SURVIVOR WILL FIND OUT THE REAL TRUTH OF WHAT ACTUALLY IS GOING ON IN THAT DISGRACED GROUP. LIKE I SAID BEFORE, WE WILL GET TO THE BOTTOM OF THIS SAGA EVENTUALLY, OF THAT YOU CAN BE ASSURED. YOU ARE NOT DOING YOURSELF ANY FAVOUR S IN KEEPING SILENT, AND IGNORING THE VALID QUESTIONS THAT ALL SURVIVORS ARE ASKING YOU.
I THINK THE NEXT MOVE NOW WILL BE TO CONTACT THE GOVERNMENT, AND TELL THEM ALL ABOUT THE CONCERNS A LOT OF SURVIVORS HAVE, AND TO QUESTION, THE VALIDITY OF THE (SO CALLED) ILLEGAL DATABASE YOUR GROUP HAVE IN YOUR POSSESSION, AND ARE CLAIMING FUNDING FROM THE HSE, AND OTHER ORGANIZATIONS.
IF YOU DONT ANSWER OUR QUESTIONS, MAYBE SOMEONE ELSE WILL. WE ALL HAVE ENOUGH OF THIS SECRECY THAT SURROUNDS THAT GROUP ( RIGHT OF PLACE, SECOND CHANCE) AND WE HAVE ENOUGH.
EVERYTHING SEEMS TO HAVE GONE VERY QUIET AT ( RIGHT OF PLACE SECOND CHANCE) I WONDER WHY?
I WOULD LIKE TO ASK MR WALSH IF HE TOLD ANYONE ABOUT HIS NEW WEB-SITE, BECAUSE IT CAME AS A SURPRISE TO ME. WE NEVER HEARD OF IT, AND I’LL BET, MOST OF YOUR (SO CALLED MEMBERSHIP) HAVE NOT HEARD OF IT EITHER. BUT THEN I AM NOT, ONE BIT SURPRIZED AT THAT.
COULD MR WALSH PLEASE TELL US ALL, WHO THIS (ELUSIVE) ADMINISTRATOR IS?? NO ONE SEEMS TO KNOW.
I ALSO NOTE, THAT UNDER THE HEADING (BENEFITS OF MEMBERSHIP) ONE OF YOUR ENTITLEMENTS AS A MEMBER, ALLOWS YOU TO, ATTEND , AND VOTE, AT THE AGM, OR REGIONAL MEETINGS. I SIMPLY CANNOT UNDERSTAND HOW THIS CAN BE DONE MR WALSH, WHEN YOU DONT EVEN HAVE A REGIONAL COMMITTEE, AS YOU NEVER ELECTED ONE.
MAYBE IT’S SO YOU WONT HAVE TO ANSWER TO ANYONE, ONLY YOURSELF, AND IT GIVES YOU A FREE HAND TO DO AS YOU SO WISH. JUST LIKE THE LAST DICTATOR WE HAD? AND LOOK WHERE THAT GOT HIM?
THIS NO DOUBT IS ANOTHER OF YOUR PLOYS TO BAFFLE THE (SO CALLED MEMBERS) YOU SUPPOSIDLY REPRESENT.
PLEASE TELL ME, OR BETTER STILL TELL YOUR ( SO CALLED MEMBERSHIP) WHEN YOU LAST HELD A REGIONAL MEETING, OR EVEN AN ANNUAL GENERAL MEETING? BET YOU CANT ANSWER THAT MR WALSH, BECAUSE WE ALL KNOW, YOU HAVE NEVER HELD A MEETING OF ANY KIND WITH YOUR (SO CALLED MEMBERS) MORE OF YOUR LIES.
YOU HAVE ALSO ADVERTISED, WHERE MEMBERS CAN APPLY FOR ANY POSITION, ON THE BOARD, OR JOB OFFER WITHIN THE ORGANIZATION. I THINK WE MAY ALL BE A BIT LATE FOR THAT MR WALSH, AS YOU SEEM TO HAVE SECURED YOUR SON WITH THE POSITION OF OUTREACH WORKER ALREADY, AND ANY OTHER JOBS, SEEM TO HAVE BEEN ALREADY FILLED WITH OTHER MEMBERS OF YOUR ESTABLISHMENT. (HOW APT)
I HAVE ALSO NOTED SIR, WHEN YOU REFERRED TO THE LAMB HEALING CENTER, YOU HAVE POINTED OUT (YET AGAIN), HOW DESCREETLY YOU JUST HAPPENED TO LEAVE €25.00 WHEN YOU LEFT AFTER YOUR STAY. AGAIN SIR, I WILL SAY, THATS NOT VERY DISCREET NOW, IS IT? WHY DONT YOU JUST COME OUT AND TELL US OUT STRAIGHT TO LEAVE €25.00 WHEN WE GO.
YOU STILL HAVE NOT ANSWERED ONE QUESTION I HAVE ASKED OF YOU, AND YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO BE THERE TO HELP US SURVIVORS. I PERSONALLY THINK SIR, THAT YOU ARE THERE FOR THE ONE PURPOSE OF HELPING YOURSELF, AND YOUR SON, AND PERHAPS EVERYONE ELSE THAT WILL TOE THE LINE, AND AGREE WITH YOUR GOVERNANCE.
YOU STATED ON YOUR NEW SITE ALSO, THAT THE (TWO) FORMER MEMBERS OF YOUR BOARD OF DIRECTORS HAD RESIGNED FOR PERSONAL REASONS. A STATEMENT WHICH I CAN POSITIVLY SAY IS (A LIE) I HAVE SPOKEN TO THESE PEOPLE, AND THEY TELL ME THEY COULD GET NO CO-OPERATION FROM YOU, YOU DISAGREED WITH EVERYTHING THEY SAID, EVERYTHING HAD TO BE YOUR WAY. THIS IS CALLED (DICTATORSHIP) SIR. AS YOU MAY WELL BE AWARE OF. NO DOUBT YOU WERE WELL TUITORED ON THAT. WHY DID YOU NEED THE ADVISE OF A LEGAL ADVISER, RATHER THAN YOUR ELECTED BOARD OF DIRECTORS. THE LEGAL ADVISER IS (NOT) PART OF THE BOARD.
I WILL ASK YOU AGAIN, MR WALSH, TO COME CLEAN TO YOUR (SO CALLED MEMBERSHIP) WE ALREADY KNOW THAT DATABASE YOU HOLD IS (ILLEGALLY HELD)
WHEN WILL YOU HOLD YOUR FIRST MEETING, AND LET YOUR (SO CALLED MEMBERS) SEE WHO IS SPEAKING ON THEIR BEHALF. I BET 90 PER-CENT OF THEM NEVER EVEN HEARD OF YOU. WHEN WILL YOU HOLD YOUR FIRST AGM?
YOU HAVE A LOT OF QUESTIONS TO ANSWER, MR WALSH, BUT OBVIOUSLY YOU ARE AFRAID TO HOLD ANY MEETING, AS YOU WOULD BE TOLD WHERE TO GO. BUT IGNORING MY QUESTIONS, WILL NOT LET YOU OFF THE HOOK, AS I WILL KEEP YOU IN THE LIMELIGHT, FOR AS LONG AS IT TAKES.
The Formal Submission of the Petitions to Dissolve the Statutory Fund can be viewed @ https://www.facebook.com/topic.php?uid=147073735313917&topic=312
I have tried to post it here but cannot get past the “Spam Guard” Even with Links Removed
Magdalene group steps up campaign
By Claire O’Sullivan
MONDAY, MAY 02, 2011
JUSTICE for Magdalenes (JFM), the advocacy group calling for a redress system for survivors of Magdalene laundries, has stepped up its campaign as the Justice Minister makes a decision on the issue in the coming weeks.
Justice Minister Alan Shatter and Disability and Equality Minister Kathleen Lynch, who is a long-time supporter of JFM, are set to discuss the issue this week.
Almost six months ago, the Irish Human Rights Commission (IHRC) recommended that the state “establish a statutory mechanism to investigate the matters… and in appropriate cases to grant redress where warranted”.
Former Taoiseach Brian Cowen referred the IHRC assessment to the Attorney General for review last November and in March, Mr Shatter announced he was considering “a draft submission for the Government” on the matter.
This weekend, letters were sent to all senior and junior ministers by JFM seeking support for a redress scheme, though Ireland’s economic situation may hamper this.
In its letter to the minister, the group asked for the state’s assistance in bringing the Church and religious orders to the table.
“We continue to reach out to the four religious congregations that operated the laundries, and to members of the Irish hierarchy. The orders refuse to meet with us; they do not answer our correspondence. We did meet with Cardinal Sean Brady in June 2010, and he characterised JFM’s presentation as ‘fair and balanced’. Moreover, he recommended that we approach CORI as a way to facilitate dialogue with the congregations. However, CORI refused our request for a meeting in October 2010,” the letter said.
JFM called on the state and the Catholic Church to apologise and acknowledge the women as survivors of institutional abuse.
Research by JFM shows the Irish Courts Service sent women to these institutions “on probation” and “on remand” and the Department of Health paid capitation grants for “problem girls” sent there up to the 1980s.
The research also highlights how at no time did the state license, regulate or inspect the Magdalene laundries, which always operated on a for-profit basis.
Consequently, survivors do not receive a pension for their compulsory yet unpaid work in harsh conditions.
This appeared in the printed version of the Irish Examiner Monday, May 02, 2011
Statutory Fund – the Minister’s response.
Posted by Paddy on 27/04/2011 Leave a comment (1)Go to comments
Dear Mr Doyle,
The Minister for Education and Skills, Mr Ruairí Quinn, T.D., has asked me to refer to your email of 15th April regarding the proposed Statutory Fund, the contents of which have been noted. While the Minister is unfortunately not in a position to meet with you at this time, he has asked me to outline the current position in relation to the proposed Statutory Fund.
As you are aware, following the announcement of the proposal to utilise €110 million of the contributions being offered by the religious congregations to establish a Statutory Fund to support the needs of survivors, the Department undertook a detailed consultation process. Officials met with you on 16th June, 2010 and your submission on the proposed Statutory Fund of 25th August, 2010 was considered. Meetings were held with survivor representatives, religious congregations and other interested parties. In addition, over 250 individual responses were received in response to newspaper advertisements which invited views on the specific needs facing survivors and how the Fund could operate to assist in meeting those needs. As was noted in the advertisements, the Fund is separate and distinct from the compensation scheme operated by the independent Residential Institutions Redress Board, which provides fair and reasonable awards to victims of institutional childhood abuse.
Having considered the views expressed during the consultation process, the Department prepared proposals together with a General Scheme of a Bill to provide for the Statutory Fund. These proposals will now be considered by the Minister and the Government.
The position in relation to the cash contributions is that the sum of €20.6 million has been received and placed in a special interest bearing account in the Central Bank pending the establishment of the Statutory Fund. The remaining congregations are awaiting confirmation that the legislation will provide for the charitable status of their contributions to the Fund or sight of the proposed terms and structure of the Fund, prior to making their initial cash contributions. The offers of contributions envisaged that these contributions would be made over a period of years.
There will be further contact with you following the Government’s consideration of the proposals.
Yours sincerely,
Ronnie Ryan
Private Secretary
Court closer to hearing in school abuse case
By Seán McCárthaigh
WEDNESDAY, APRIL 27, 2011
THE European Court of Human Rights has moved a step closer to launching a full hearing into a Cork woman’s appeal against a ruling the state was not legally liable for the sexual abuse she suffered at the hands of a primary school teacher.
Louise O’Keeffe, a 46-year-old mother of two from Bandon, is challenging a Supreme Court ruling from 2009 that the Department of Education was not liable for the abuse she suffered when a pupil at Dunderrow National School, near Kinsale, in 1973.
Ms O’Keeffe has lodged papers with the Strasbourg-based European Court of Human Rights against that ruling on the basis the state is vicariously liable for the abuse at the hands of school principal, Leo Hickey, whom she argues was an employee of the Department of Education.
A ruling by the ECHR in favour of Ms O’Keeffe could have major cost implications for the state, as it is being regarded as a test case by hundreds of others who suffered sexual abuse while in school.
Ms O’Keeffe has complained that the state has breached a number of articles of the European Convention on Human Rights through its failure to have a structure to protect children in national schools from abuse and to protect her from being subjected to inhuman or degrading treatment.
She has also claimed she was discriminated against under Article 14 of the Convention on the basis that the state has accepted responsibility to compensate children for the same abuse suffered in industrial schools and other institutions.
The ECHR has now asked the Government to provide detailed information about the number of primary schools in Ireland in 1973, including the number operated under religious patronage. The court has also sought details about the primary education options available to parents in 1973.
Both the Government and Ms O’Keeffe have been asked to outline their understanding of the precise role and responsibilities of inspectors of national schools in that period, as well as structural changes to the management and administration of such schools which were introduced by the Education Act, 1998.
Critically, the ECHR has requested details of the “precise mechanisms, safeguards and procedures” which were in place to ensure that any complaints of ill-treatment, including sexual abuse reported by school managers, were acted upon by the Department of Education.
Ms O’Keeffe was awarded €305,104 in compensation by the High Court in 1999 in a civil action taken against Hickey.
However, she subsequently lost both High Court and Supreme Court cases in which she sought to make the state liable for the personal injuries she suffered as a result of the abuse.
This appeared in the printed version of the Irish Examiner Wednesday, April 27, 2011
Thank you Mosse, and Bill for your comment’s, and pleased to see you Bill, remark on the fact that you dont know of any Survivor who has had any sort of support or help from ROP. I have asked this same question many time’s over the year’s, but never got one reply or confirmation of assistance from this group.
What i have learned is that there are some Survivor’s, who managed to get themselve’s some education, and turned it to their own advantage, by setting up and running these group’s, while receiving massive funding from the Religious, HSE, and Government Education Dept’s. Thus ensuring they have nice cushy well paid career’s.
And all of the back’s of the fellow Survivor’s they claim to represent.
ROP say they want to see a cash settlement to each Survivor, from the 110 million, but say nothing about the other million’s in Property and Land, that the Religious indicated they were contributing!
Perhap’s that is their idea of where their continued funding should come from?
If ROP, or any other group , seriously had all Survivor’s interest’s at heart, WHY are they not fighting our cause, and insisting on meeting’s with the Government Dept’s concerned? In order to bring this entire sad business to a satisfactory conclusion, for all Survivor’s.
We are getting old while all this is happening far out of reach. tempoary lodgings is what is there for the desperate. we survivers from the fiftysare too old for these places which can be dangerous. and thay know that at right of place. first and second chance. and the other groups. its easy to talk like mr walsh. he is earning a good living thanks to his so called good intentions.but when it comes to what thay offer that the state offers to everyone there is no answer.the salvation offers the lodgings to all .
mossie, thanks for posting the news about rop/cork
as usual thanks to the examiner newspaper for printing same other wise we would never have heard about the money from the HSE to ROP.
All i can see from it all, is, it is money to run
all rop offices all over the country and keep the
reps in work as long as the money lasts,
How much money did rop get over the years,(millions)as we know,the HSE kept sending money
yet no one was held responsible or explained where
the money went.
i dont know of one survivor who got anything from ROP, only the choosen few.(paid staff and cronies)
Now the HSE are supplying the gravy train again.
when was the last meeting held in cork?who replaced the two honest board members on the board,who resigned in discust?(which makes the board in ROP illegal) the place is still rotten to the core aS far as i am concerned.to many closed doors, no imformation a news letter that never tells the truth just propaganda, the scandal just gets worse thanks to the stupid HSE!!!!!!!!!!!
Group for abuse survivors must report to HSE monthly
By Jennifer Hough
SATURDAY, APRIL 23, 2011
MONTHLY expenditure and activity reports must be provided to the HSE by a group for institutional abuse survivors which was on the brink of insolvency last year.
Cork-based Right of Place, now called Right of Place/Second Chance, has been allocated €192,745 in funding for 2011 but must have formal face-to-face meetings every three months with the HSE.
Documents obtained by the Irish Examiner show that late in 2010 the HSE had to make a payment of almost €87,000 to keep the organisation solvent.
The HSE also gave €17,000, €9,000 and a further €7,337 to Right of Place to pay the Revenue Commissioners in respect of “outstanding tax debt”.
According to the HSE, which signed off on the money, it does not know why these payments had to be made and that is it a matter for Right of Place.
The organisation is attempting to put the past behind it and move on from controversy over management and funding last year.
Last November responding to a request for information by the Public Accounts Committee, the HSE said a new model of service would result in a lower cost base.
Outlining the new model it said it would provide an outreach service which will “link survivors into existing statutory services”.
A new website set up last week by the group says it has offices in the Cork, Kerry, Waterford, Limerick and Galway regions.
Services provided include one to one meetings, advocating for survivor needs, information on survivor support, counselling, bereavement support, transitional housing and education grants.
Right of Place/Second Chance wants a cash settlement to be issued to each survivor from the €110 million, which the religious orders have handed over to the state as many are dying in abject poverty.
This appeared in the printed version of the Irish Examiner Saturday, April 23, 2011
Order denies withholding €20m from abuse victims’ fund
By Conor Ryan
FRIDAY, APRIL 15, 2011
A KEY religious congregation contributing to the special fund for victims of institutional abuse has rejected suggestions that millions of euro in compensation was being withheld.
The Oblates of Mary Immaculate confirmed it has €20 million in a special account waiting to transfer to a victims’ trust as soon as the Government could take it. But so far the state has failed to set up this trust, despite promising it after the publication of the Ryan Report almost two years ago.
The contribution would double the amount already signed over to an account set up in advance of the proposed €110m statutory trust for former residents of institutions run by religious orders.
Provincial of the Order, Fr William Fitzpatrick, denied suggestions that religious orders had failed to fulfil their promises simply because the account set up by the Government had so far only received €20.6m — less than a fifth of what was expected.
Fr Fitzpatrick said he received a letter from the department earlier this month which suggested progress on the issue was pending.
“I can speak for the Irish Oblates and say we have promised €20m cash. However, we are still waiting for the Government to establish the trust, which was announced in May 2009. The money has been placed in a designated account and will be paid as soon as the account is set up by the Government.”
The departmental letter to Fr Fitzpatrick said a new law will be brought to Government to advance the matter.
“The department has, following a comprehensive consultation process, prepared proposals together with a General Scheme of a Bill to provide for the Statutory Fund, which will be submitted to the minister and Government.”
The Oblates had €82m in assets at the time a Government panel assessed the value of the portfolios held by the 18 religious orders.
However, it did not have the vast property portfolio of other bodies and instead opted to pay cash by way of compensation.
More than half of its 46 members in Ireland are older than 70.
This appeared in the printed version of the Irish Examiner Friday, April 15, 2011
Read more: http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/order-denies-withholding-20m-from-abuse-victims-fund-151524.html#ixzz1JZzAgqhT
Vatican abuse report due by Easter
By Fiachra Ó Cionnaith
Friday, April 15, 2011
THE Vatican inquiry team sent to Ireland by Pope Benedict XVI as part of church sex abuse investigations is set to report to the pontiff by Easter.
Archbishop of Dublin, Dr Diarmuid Martin, said the “apostolic visitation” has completed its work.
The investigation, which began in March 2010, has already met with abuse victims and bishops.
The Vatican group’s purpose is to examine whether the processes in place to deal with abuse are effective.
The imminent conclusion of the investigation emerged as it was revealed 50 new alleged clerical sex abuse victims have come forward to make allegations against nine more Dublin archdiocese priests since the 2009 Murphy report.
Figures released by the archdiocese have confirmed that since November 2009 almost a dozen previously unknown potential abusers have been implicated in the scandal.
Before the publication of the report — which gave shocking details of long-standing abuse and attempted cover-ups in Dublin by some clergymen — 520 people had made formal complaints of abuse by 84 priests since 1941.
However, in the 18 months since the publication, a further 50 people have come forward alleging abuse — a figure which implicates nine more priests.
In addition, “suspicions” have been raised over two more priests not currently the subject of complaints, raising the overall figure to 11.
There has been no change in the number of Dublin-based priests or those from other dioceses to hold an appointment in the capital who are the subject of complaints (60); those from other dioceses who performed some work in Dublin (9) since the Murphy report.
A total of 10 Dublin-based priests or ex-priests have been convicted or have cases pending in the criminal courts and two non-diocesan priests who served in Dublin have also been convicted in relation to sex abuse.
In addition, 172 civil actions have been taken by alleged victims against 44 of the archdiocese’s priests.
A total of 117 have been concluded, 55 are ongoing, resulting in €9.3 million worth of settlements and €4.2m in legal costs for those involved.
The figures emerged as the archbishop of Dublin, Dr Diarmuid Martin, and the archdiocese’s child safeguarding and protection office (CSPS) launched the diocesan policy for child safeguarding and protecting children.
Dr Martin said the policy will bring together a series of long-established practices and procedures in the archdiocese to ensure the safety of children.
While the Dublin archdiocese has recently been proactive in this task, other dioceses in the rest of the country have been criticised by some alleged victims for failing to pass on complaints.
Abuse survivor Andrew Madden said while he welcomed the Dublin archdiocese’s commitment to preventing further abuse, “nothing short of this standard is acceptable from any diocese in the country”.
FOCionnaith.direct@examiner.ie
This appeared in the printed version of the Irish Examiner Friday, April 15, 2011
The Government has ignored us so far We are not going to get justice in Ireland . It has to go to the COURT OF HUMAN RIGHT’S
There is only ONE reason last the INCOMPETENT Government wanted to set up the STATUARY TRUST FUND apart from running the country into the ground is to MAKE SURE THEY keep TIGHT REIN’S on all survivors whole lives to keep us under their thumb so that they know every single thing about us and our families IT’S A FORM OF BLACKMAIL, AND THEY CAN HOLD US TO RANSOME if, BIG IF , we or our families need to apply to their trust fund for whatever reason ,Which most survivors would rather NEVER AGAIN want anything to do with government ,Groups, We want to be compansated so we can get on with our lives IN FREEDOM. our hurt is to deep ,our loss to great ,we have all been further ABUSED for the last 13 years by those Groups set up by the STATE and RELIGIOUS ,WE HAVE BEEN USED ,ABUSED AND RECIEVED NO HELP WHATEVER .IF THE GOVERNMENT WANT THIS TO GO AWAY THEY MUST DO WHAT IS RIGHT AND STOP THEIR IMMORAL PANDERING TO THOSE GROUPS >THE AISLINN CENTRE, RIGHT OF PLACE, SOCA UK,AND INVESTIGATE WHERE ALL THE FUNDING THEY RECIEVED HAS GONE AND WHAT ON.ALSO TO CHECK OUT ALL THE SURVIVORS NAMES THEY CLAIMED FUNDING FOR. Compansate the Survivors . my children went to colleges in the 1980’s ,they don’t need to go for any more education ,that is Mrs Buckleys manic idea so she can keep her ego and rich lifestyle going NO OTHER REASON IT HAS TO STOP NOW.
To vote for Paddy to represent people who have been abused please use link below
http://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/mandate-for-paddy-doyle-to-represent-survivors/ – Kay
If a civil does not pay fines or whatever thay send the debt collecters to his or her homes. So whats the difference. thay owe ireland a lot of money but the government are too scared to arrest them . So its time to send the finance minester in there to collect in the name of the whole country. it should be claimed from rome as thats thier headquarters.
Hi Kay,
Somehow or other, i doubt that very much. As has been suggested, i think the best way forward regarding that Trust Fund, is for the whole issue to be brought to The Court’s of Human Rights.
The government do not, and have not been listening to the Survivors at any stage, and have no intention of in the future.
If some of these people who as Survivors themselves, would work for us, rather than work against us, for their own ill-gotten gains, we might have some sort of chance. but no, their own Greed has got the better of them. they forget very quickly where they came from.
Mr Walsh, and his Cronies have gone very quiet, if you have noticed. Do you see, he still refuses to answer any of the questions that have been put to him. Just like Noel Barry. Ignore them, and eventually they will go away, but how wrong they are?
Mossie.
Orders give just €20m of €1.3bn abuse compo bill
By Mary Regan, Political Correspondent
Saturday, April 09, 2011
RELIGIOUS orders have contributed €20 million in cash of the estimated €1.3 billion cost of meeting child abuse compensation claims — leaving most of the rest to be picked up by the taxpayer.
This means the Church has not contributed a cent since the Ryan Report revealed abuse almost two years ago.
Under a controversial deal struck by former education minister Michael Woods, in 2002 the Church’s liability was limited to €128m of an estimated €1.1bn compensation package. But following the publication of the Ryan Report in June 2009 the Church offered to raise its contribution to €348.5m to meet an expected rise in compensation payments.
Last April, the Government asked for a 50:50 split which “would require further contributions of at least €200m from the congregation”, according to Department of Finance documents. But the briefing notes prepared for the new minister for finance, released under the Freedom of Information Act, point out: “Only €20m of the original cash offers has been received.”
The payments were to be broken down into €111m in cash, €2m in rent waivers to the state and €235.5m in property. The documents released yesterday said: “The offers of property are still being examined in terms of their usefulness.” The following two paragraphs of the notes are blacked out.
In November 2008, seven months before the release of the Ryan Report, then minister for education Batt O’Keeffe confirmed €20m in cash had been paid at that stage. He said further cash payments of €32m were being paid in place of agreed property transfers which had not materialised.
Hi Mossie
“Education Minister Ruairi Quinn welcomed the CSP’s position paper and said it would form part of “an essential and informative debate within the education agenda!”
D’You think if we asked nicly, The Minister might welcome an essential and informative debate with the thousands of unrepresented survivors??? I think we all know the answer to that one!
Kind regards to all Kay
Catholic group plays down school patronage reports
By Seán McCárthaigh
THURSDAY, APRIL 07, 2011
CATHOLIC Church representatives have said reports that up to 50% of Catholic schools will be transferred to other patrons under a new Government initiative are “way over the top”.
The Catholic Schools Partnership (CSP) expressed concern yesterday that reports of the 50% figure had raised fears that some Catholic schools might be forced to relinquish patronage against their will.
The CSP — which was established jointly by the Irish Bishops’ Conference and the Conference of Religious in Ireland — described the 50% figure which has been mentioned by Education Minister Ruairi Quinn as “way over the top.”
CSP executive chairperson Fr Michael Drumm said he believed that it would be quite substantial if only 10% of Catholic schools were transferred to other patrons.
However, he stressed that there was no correct figure as the circumstances of each individual school would need to be assessed separately.
Fr Drumm also said there should be “no rush” to transfer the patronage of schools, despite the fact that Mr Quinn indicated that the process could begin early next year.
Mr Quinn announced last week the establishment of the Forum on Patronage and Pluralism to examine the issue.
Almost 90% of 3,300 primary schools in the Republic are run by the Catholic Church. However, the Catholic hierarchy — most notably, the Archbishop of Dublin, Diarmuid Martin — has acknowledged that it needs to divest itself of some schools as the Catholic Church is over-represented in Irish education.
Launching a position paper by the CSP yesterday, Fr Drumm insisted that any decision on changing the patronage of any school must be taken at a local level. However, he added: “If sufficient demand for a school under different patronage can be demonstrated then all of the stakeholders should work in partnership towards this goal.”
Fr Drumm rejected any suggestion that religious education be regarded as “indoctrination”. He also dismissed as “almost laughable” any attempt to link religious education and sacramental preparations with a decline in literacy and numeracy levels.
Fr Drumm acknowledged that the future of small primary schools was a far more important issue to many parents that the issue of school patronage.
He also said the use of the phrases “inter-denominational” and “multi-denominational” in relation to schools was confusing.
Fr Drumm said there may also be legal issues surrounding the charitable status of trusts which currently oversee many Catholic schools and the transfer of resources in the event of a new patron being appointed.
The CSP said it is conducting its own research of the attitude of stakeholders to the proposed change of patronage of Catholic schools.
The results of such surveys will be analysed at four regional assemblies to be held in June from which the CSP would finalise its position on the transfer of patronage.
Education Minister Ruairi Quinn welcomed the CSP’s position paper and said it would form part of “an essential and informative debate within the education agenda”.
This appeared in the printed version of the Irish Examiner Thursday, April 07, 2011
Priest made child protection trainer despite controversy
By Claire O’Sullivan
WEDNESDAY, APRIL 06, 2011
CLERICAL abuse victims have expressed horror at a decision by the Diocese of Cloyne to appoint a child protection delegate who was forced to step down to the diocese’s child protection training committee.
Fr Bill Bermingham stepped down from his role as Cloyne’s child protection delegate last summer after clerical abuse victims expressed disgust at his decision to show victims’ statements to accused priests and their solicitors before gardaí interviewed them.
He is now one of eight people sitting on the diocese’s child protection training committee which is chaired by Con Lynch.
Last night a Cloyne clerical abuse victim said: “I am sickened that this is possible, that this man could be put in charge of training priests and lay people about best child protection practice. I cannot believe that the Church would even consider this after Fr Bermingham blatantly abused our trust. It can take victims up to 30 years to make a statement and then to have victims’ trust breached like that again is appalling. ”
Chief executive of One in Four, Maeve Lewis, last night said: “Given the history of this man as a child protection delegate and given his complete misunderstanding of or failure to properly manage child protection guidelines, I do not think that he is suitable for training people in this area.”
A spokesman for the diocese last night said Fr Bermingham had “no role in the management in the clerical abuse cases” and was just “overseeing the training of priests and lay people and helping to develop diocesan policy”.
At the end of last year, Fr Bermingham was replaced as child protection delegate by a lay person and former HSE social worker, Bill Meagher.
Fr Bermingham himself was drafted into the role in 2008 when Bishop John Magee’s long-time child protection delegate, Monsignor Denis O’Callaghan stepped down in the face of strong criticism of the diocese’s handling of abuse by the National Board for Safeguarding Children (NBSC).
Meanwhile, the High Court will shortly hear an application by the Minister for Justice as to what parts of the Murphy Commission report into the handling of child sex abuse allegations in Cloyne should be published.
The commission of investigation, set up by the minister, has prepared a report into the handling by the Church and by state authorities of allegations of child sexual abuse against clerics operating in the diocese, which covers north and east Cork, between January 1, 1996, and February 1, 2009.
The report, which consists of 27 chapters, and relates to 19 clerics against whom complaints were made, was submitted to the minister on December 23.
This appeared in the printed version of the Irish Examiner Wednesday, April 06, 2011
IT SEEMS MR WALSH, AND CO HAVE GONE VERY QUIET, AFTER THEIR MISLEADING CONTRIBUTION TO THIS SITE NOT SO LONG AGO. HAS ANYBODY ATTEMPTED TO SHED ANY LIGHT ON THE QUESTIONS THAT WERE ASKED OF THEM RECENTLY? IT SEEMS NOT.
I WILL ASK YOU AGAIN MR WALSH, WHEN ARE YOU GOING TO CALL YOUR FIRST MEETING, WHICH YOU ARE OBLIGED TO HOLD ANNUALLY, AND TAKE THE QUESTIONS FROM YOUR ( SO CALLED MEMBERS )?
YOU CANNOT IGNORE ME ALL THE TIME, YOU KNOW. YOU ARE ALSO IGNORING THESE MEMBERS, YOU SAY YOU REPRESENT, AND SPEAK ON BEHALF OF.
PLEASE TELL EVERYONE HOW YOU MANAGED TO GET THAT POSITION YOU NOW HOLD IN ( RIGHT OF PLACE ) BECAUSE I FOR ONE DO NOT THINK YOU GOT IT LEGALLY.
THERE IS ALSO THE QUESTION OF YOUR SON, ( MICHEAL ) AND THE POSITION HE NOW HOLDS AS ( OUTREACH WORKER ) FOR THE WATERFORD BRANCH.. A POSITION WHICH WAS NOT PUT TO THE MEMBERS TO APPLY FOR. THIS POSITION SHOULD HAVE BEEN GIVEN TO A SURVIVOR.
IT’S VERY EASY FOR YOU TO KEEP IGNORING PEOPLE, AND AVOIDING THE QUESTIONS THAT ARE BEING PUT TO YOU SIR. A PROPERLY, AND DEMOCRATICALLY ELECTED PERSON WOULD HAVE NO PROBLEM ADDRESSING THESE ISSUES, AS HE WOULD HAVE NOTHING TO HIDE, BUT BY YOUR SILENCE, MR WALSH, YOU ARE ONLY MAKING THE ISSUE MORE QUESTIONABLE.
I AM NOT GOING AWAY SIR, ANY TIME SOON. THAT YOU CAN BE ASSURED OF. I AM GOING TO CONTINUE TO KEEP ON ASKING YOU ABOUT THESE ISSUES THAT NEED TO BE ADDRESSED, UNTIL SUCH TIME AS I GET A PROPER, AND TRUTHFUL ANSWER.
I AM NOT ONLY ASKING FOR MYSELF, BUT FOR ALL OF THESE ( SO CALLED MEMBERS ) YOU SAY YOU REPRESENT, BUT HAVE NO MANDATE FROM THESE SURVIVORS TO DO SO.
IF YOU TOOK OVER THE DATABASE FROM THE LAST CHAIRMAN OF RIGHT OF PLACE, ( MR NOEL C BARRY ) THEN YOU TOOK IT OVER ILLEGALLY. MR BARRY HAD DIFFICULTIES WITH THAT CONTRAVERSIAL DATABASE ALSO, AS YOU SHOULD BE WELL AWARE OF.
IF THAT ( SO CALLED ) DATABASE WAS QUESTIONABLE WHEN MR BARRY HELD THAT POSITION SIR, THEN IT IS ( MORE SO ) QUESTIONABLE NOW, SINCE YOU HAVE TAKEN IT OVER. I THINK THAT MAKES PERFECTLY GOOD SENSE. DONT YOU?
MARIE Laughlin , >Industrial Reformatories where Babies and young children were sentenced to detention by the Courts for all or most of our childhoods, >Is totally different to Mother and Baby Homes. that is a different issue and should be taken up with lawyers seperatly .NOT THE SAME THING i’M AFRAID .
This Arrived in my Personal In box today
Hi,
I would like to sincerely thank everyone who signed this petition in support of Survivors of Child Abuse-(those Abused in Catholic Institutions.)
The amount of signatures was 372. This will be sent directly to the Irish Prime Minister today.
Kindest regards,
The Survivors.
Thought you would Like to Know??
Largest settlements in the Catholic abuse scandal Shared Between Amount Each in Millions
Los Angeles Archdiocese: $660 million $1.2 to $1.3 €0.89
San Diego: $198 million 144 $1.38 €0.98
NW Jesuits: $166.1 million 524 $0.32 €0.22
Orange, Calif.: $100 million 87 $1.15 €0.82
Jesuits pay $166m to abuse victims
A Jesuits order in the US has agreed to pay $166 million to settle more than 500 child sexual abuse claims against priests in five states.
The payout by the Oregon Province of the order – part of an agreement to resolve its two-year-old bankruptcy case – marks one of the biggest settlements to date in the Church’s sexual abuse scandals.
Lawyers for the victims said it also is the largest ever by a Catholic religious order such as the Jesuits.
The Oregon Province covers Oregon, Washington, Alaska, Idaho and Montana.
The victims, most of them Native Americans from remote Alaska Native villages or Indian reservations in the Pacific Northwest, were sexually or psychologically abused as children by Jesuit missionaries in those states in the 1940s through the 1990s, the plaintiffs’ attorneys said.
“No amount of money can bring back a lost childhood, a destroyed culture or a shattered faith,” lawyer Blaine Tamaki, who represents about 90 victims in the settlement, said in a statement.
“This settlement recognizes that the Jesuits betrayed the trust of hundreds of young children in their care,” Tamaki said. “These religious figures should have been responsible for protecting children, but instead raped and molested them.”
The Jesuits’ Oregon Province said the $166.1 million would be paid into a trust to “resolve approximately 524 abuse claims in a five-state area.”
Rebecca Rhoades, another attorney for victims of Jesuit abuse in the Northwest, said settlement negotiations began in earnest in October 2010 and were concluded this week.
She said the settlement, which has been approved by all parties, will be filed with the US Bankruptcy Court in Portland, Oregon, on March 29th.
The Jesuits filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection in February 2009 as litigation over sexual abuse claims was mounting.
AND THERE’S A LOT MORE IN THE FOREIGN PRESS – WHICH DOES N*O*T APPEAR IN THE IRISH PAPERS.
WE HAVE EARNT FOR OURSELVES THE UNMISTAKABLE FOLLOWING LABEL/ACCOLADE: “PHILADELPHIA, THE IRELAND OF AMERICA”.
THERE ARE AT LEAST OTHERS – AWAY FROM IRISH SHORES – WHO ALSO KNOW AND BELIEVE, THAT IRELAND AND HER CHURCH, IS “THE WORST IN THE WORLD”.
AT THIS RATE, OF COURSE IT JUST “HAS TO BE” MORE THAN THE CHURCH AND ROME: IT IS THE PEOPLE AND THEIR GOVERNMENT.
SHAME ON US.
STILL.
Report in paper today, ” Catholic Church yesterday agreed to pay £103 Million to 500 sex abuse victim’s in North West America”.
This is in addition to the many Million’s already paid out over the last 15 year’s, to thousand’s of victim’s in various city’s and parish’s, throughout the rest of the USA, and not forgetting Canada, Austrailia,and other country’s pending! like for example, Holy Ireland!
The Religious in Ireland , after the various report’s came out, Apoligised, and made promise’s to contribute Cash, Property, and Land’s, to all Survivor’s by way of Redress, but the Government have interferred in this matter, and seem to want to take control of these fund’s, and cause further distress to all the Survivor’s, (most who are now in their elder year’s)and deprive us of a just and fair final settlement.
If the Catholic Church can compensate the victim’s of the USA, CANADA, AND AUSTRLIA NOW, WHY CAN THEY NOT DO THE SAME FOR THE THOUSAND’S OF VICTIM’S IN HOLY IRELAND?
The Irish Government should insist that the R/C/Church address all the Survivor’s and Victim’s , that they committed the crime’s against, especially before the Pope’s visit!
Perhap’s then we will be able to read in the paper’s that the Catholic Church finally redressed the Irish Survivor’s of Child Abuse!
To vote for Paddy to represent people who have been abused please use link below
http://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/mandate-for-paddy-doyle-to-represent-survivors/ – Kay
I WOULD SAY, MICK, THAT YOUR ASSUMPTION WOULD BE INDEED CORRECT. MR BARRY THOUGHT HE OWN’ED RIGHT OF PLACE. NONE OF THE ANSWERS THAT WERE ASKED OH HIM THEN HAVE BEEN ADDRESSED, AND MOST LIKELY WONT. WE HAVE EXACTLY THE SAME SITUATION AGAIN TODAY, WITH YET ANOTHER DICTATOR IN PLACE.
Michael Walsh, signed the Petition on this site “On behalf of Right of Place Second Chance”
It State Quite Clearly in their News Letter >
“The Trust Fund
Right of Place/ Second Chance has already stated our position on this fund, in our last Newsletter. It is that a cash settlement should be issued to each survivor from the 110 million, which the Religious have handed over to the state.”
It goes on to State >
“Therefore, Right of Place Second Chance also make the case that – not only should the 110 million be handed over to the survivors immediately, but that the 450 million which the church is being asked to hand over to the state as payment for redress which has already been paid out – should in fact be used as a health/welfare support aid – for survivors – to aid us in our ill health and support us and our dependents in out time of need. So that we can live with dignity and die in peace.”
Source – Right of Place/ Second Chance Newsletter February 2011
What from would this “health/welfare support aid” take?
Would it be a Statutory Instrument set up by the Government?
Would this be in the form of a Trust Fund?
How can Right of Place /Second Chance Sign a Petition against a Trust Fund and then ask for a bigger one?
Am I stupid?
At Friday, 17 December 2010
The figures show that out of €348m pledged last year in cash and property after the Ryan report, just 6% has been handed over. No property has been transferred.
More than €26m is still outstanding from the original Indemnity Deal.
Source – http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/1217/abuse.html
Right of Place /Second Chance say that the religious have already paid over 110 million to the state!
Am I now incapable of simple maths is 6% of 348 million less that 110 million?
They think I am stupid!
They think we are all stupid!!!!
They also in their assertion seem to be of the opinion that the redress board was fair and legal; yet we all know that it was no such thing!
The Redress board and the compensation scheme that it administered was in breach of Human Rights!
Is this why they have the funding without question? to be the “Government Voice” on this issue?
If I think I will get an answer to this posting? Then I am STUPID!!!!!!
Rob, again you fail to answer my question’s, but reply shouting out about your experience of your work in the voluntary sector as a manager, but your remark of of being offered A POSITON by ROP ARE NIL, IS Bullshit!
Your defence of them and your support for them is very obvious,you put down a genuine survivor, you
sing their praise’s, and you plead for them to be given a chance, despite the fact that they clearly have only one road to pursue, to feather their own nest’s , and carve out a nice lifestyle for themselve’s , at the expence of genuine survivor’s !
Question to you Robert, you say your Wife is a victim/ survivor, so why do you want to support the Walsh’s , who are clearly out to deprive your Wife,and all genuine survivor’s of a fair and just redress, to which they are entitled!
Survivor’s live all over the world now, and wont ever benifit from a trust fund, but only a fair redress from the contribution’s made by the religious. Walsh an other group’s dont want that situation, they clearly want to be able to have a regurlar financial amount of money ,to support their fancy lifestyle’s! Is that what you want also? I dont think your Wife would agree!
Rob, you boast of your experience, and training, but i would ask you, how does that compare to a 12 year old boy being taken out of his bed in a dorm, by a religious brother, to the brother’s room, and sexually assaulted, buggered and left bleeding, and threatened with serious damage if he was to open his mouth, and suffered further multi rape in the garden shed by another paedophile brother , and two older boy’s, and to add to the horrible experience’s, suffered more sexual abuse from a priest he had looked up to, and a lay person, who acted like father figure, only to involve him in more sexual abuse in a cinema.
Rob, you dont have an idea of the shit we were put through, you are neither a victim or survivor,and as far as i am concerned, you are no way qualified to decide whose side to take, but i can tell you , the Children that went through these gulag’s are entitled to their say, and to detail their experience’s, and to request just and fair redress!
Your statement that your view’s are not unbalanced are incorrect, why would you try to chastise Paulene? Why would you insist that you are right and so many folk here and on your SOI site are wrong?
Are we all liar’s? We are the victim’s, and Survivor’s here, you insult us all with your comment’s,and you simply dont seem to have an idea of the folks you upset with your comment’s!
Genuine Survivor’s want sincere and true leadership, and every bit of help they can get ,from genuine leader’s, who can show their heart is in the right place, and not dependant on the HSE, to fight in the Survivor’s corner, and help get proper redress, FOR ONCE AND FOR ALL.
We are all old, nearly banjaxed, and pissed of big time with learning of the vast amount of funding various groups are receiving, while doing nothing for the name’s they claim to represent,
and it show’s up here , big time, Rob, when there has never been one posting singing the group’s praise’s,here or on your site!
All in all it support’s our claim’s! They are conmen, and parisite’s, living of genuine survivor’s suffering’s!
Rob, get a grip, stand back, and be honest, if you want to be involved, think of your Wife, and all the other Survivor’s, and forget about the conmen who simply want to fashion out a very nice lifestyle fot themselve;s !
Listen to genuine victim’s, and Survivor’s lucky enough to be still alive.
Jimmy
Marie Therese O’ Loughlin >Never heard of Regina Ceoli ??what sort of place was it ? who ran it.I thought you were in GB ? you say survivors have been at loggerheads with each other ,strange thing to say as we all know most survivors DON’T live in ireland therefore the only ones who were at loggerheads were those who never left ireland and got involved unwillingly maby with those groups. especially the mad enviorenment at the aislinn centre and rop nasty lot the lot of them.
Above we have the following Statement:
“4)Each and every member of ROP (Survivors) and their family’s were invited to apply for the positions available, and as such each survivor had as much chance as any to get the positions. However after the lessons of the past, it did not matter whether you were a survivor or a dependent, the most qualified person got the job. Which i’m sure you would agree with?”
A little further on we have this Rebuttal!
“Michael jnr, has stated that each and every member and their family’s could have applied for position’s that were availible, but as a former member, i was never made aware of any position’s that were avialible, was never informed ,or invited to apply for anything, so that is total b******T.”
The Question is >
How where the 1,750 Members informed of the Positions?
MICHEAL,
NOTHING I HAVE SAID, ARE WITHOUT FOUNDATION, OR COULD INDEED BE CONSTRUCTED AS SLANDEROUS. I CONTINUE TO ASK YOUR FATHER TO ANSWER QUESTIONS FROM TIME TO TIME. HE SEEMS TO HAVE SOME SORT OF PROBLEM WITH THIS REQUEST. IF INDEED HE HAS A PROBLEM WITH THIS REQUEST, THEN I MIGHT SUGGEST HE SHOULD NOT BE IN THE POSITION HE HOLDS, AS THAT POSITION EXPECTS A PROPER AND TRUTHFUL RESPONSE FOR THE ( SO CALLED MEMBERS ) HE SUPPOSIDLY REPRESENT.
GETTING AN APPOINTMENT AS AN “ OUTREACH WORKER “ FOR A COMPANY, WHEN YOUR FATHER IS THE CHAIRMAN OF THE BOARD OF DIRECTORS, HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH BEING A ROAD SWEEPER, OR A ROCKET SCEINTIST, BUT AS WE SAY IN IRELAND, “ ITS WHO YOU KNOW, AND NOT WHAT YOU KNOW”
ON THE OTHER HAND, HAD YOU BEEN OFFERED AND REFUSED, THEN THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN THE HONORABLE THING TO DO, THEN NO STONES WOULD HAVE BEEN CAST AT YOU. BUT I GUESS IN THE END, GREED WILL ALWAYS WIN OUT.
AT THE END OF THE DAY SIR. IT IS ONLY THE VIEWS AND COMMENTS OF ( RIGHT OF PLACE ) THAT THE MEMBERS ARE INTERESTED IN.
REGARDING YOUR APPOINTMENT, TO THE POSITION OF (OUTREACH WORKER) WHAT I MEANT TO SAY WAS, IT IS MY OPINION THAT YOU’RE FATHER HAD INFLUENCE OVER YOUR APPOINTMENT TO THAT POSITION. YOU ALSO ASK ME IF THE HSE, AND THE VEC, ARE INCAPABLE OF MAKING DECISIONS? WHATEVER ABOUT THE VEC, MAKING A DECISION, BUT THE HSE? DO YOU READ THE PAPERS AT ALL? THE HSE SEEM TO BE IN THE HEADLINES EVERY DAY, AND FOR ALL THE WRONG REASONS, AND YOU ASK ME IF I THINK THEY ARE CAPABLE? NEED I SAY ANY MORE?
I DON’T BELIEVE, FOR ONE-MINUTE SIR, THAT YOUR FATHER HAD NO INPUT AT ANY LEVEL, WHATSOEVER IN YOUR APPOINTMENT TO THE POSITION YOU NOW HOLD. NOT FOR ONE MINUTE. DO YOU THINK WE ARE ALL FOOLS? I WOULD INDEED HAVE LOVED TO SEE THE FACTS THAT THEY HAD IN FRONT OF THEM, WHEN THAT DECISION WAS MADE.
“ PLEASE TELL ME, IN (WHAT) PUBLIC NEWSPAPER, WAS THIS POST ADVERTISED?
IT IS MY BELIEF, THAT ALL PUBLIC SALARIED POSTS, (MUST) BE ADVERTISED IN THE NATIONAL NEWSPAPERS, AND MUST BE SEEN TO BE FAIR AND EQUITABLE.
TO MY KNOWLEDGE, THIS IS THE LAW OF THE LAND, AND IF YOU DON’T BELIEVE ME, YOU CAN GET THE COMPANY BARRISTER TO CHECK IT OUT.
YOU ALSO STATED THAT EVERY MEMBER OF RIGHT OF PLACE WAS INVITED TO APPLY FOR THIS POSITION.
I CAN NOW CONFIRM, THAT THIS IN COMPLETELY WITHOUT FOUNDATION.
MANY GOOD DECENT AND HONORABLE MEMBERS, WHO QUESTION THE DODGY GOVERNANCE PRACTICES OF (RIGHT OF PLACE) WERE NEVER GIVEN THE OPPORTUNITY TO APPLY.
PERSONALLY SIR, I COULD CARE LESS WHAT MR Mc ALLISTER WOULD HAVE TO SAY ABOUT THE ALLEGED ACCUSATIONS YOU TALK ABOUT. THIS IS MY OPINION, AND I AM QUITE ENTITLED TO HAVE MY OPINION. I AM NOT BEHOLDING TO ANYONE FROM THE HSE, AND I AM SURE IT WAS THE HSE WHO DECIDED THIS. AGAIN IT IS MY OPINION, BUT PERSONALLY I THINK THE HSE, AND ANYTHING IT DOES IS INDEED VERY QUESTIONABLE.
THE LAST TIME THE HSE APPOINTED ANYONE IN RELATION TO THE BUSINESS OF (RIGHT OF PLACE) IT WAS YOUR FATHER WHO WAS APPOINTED BY THE HSE, TO OVERSEE THE ELECTIONS OF THE NEW BOARD OF DIRECTORS OF (RIGHT OF PLACE)
AND GUESS WHAT, YOUR FATHER GOT HIMSELF ELECTED CHAIRMAN OF THE NEW BOARD OF DIRECTORS. ? HOW DID HE MANAGE THAT, STRANGE?
AND NOW!! GUESS WHAT AGAIN; YOU’RE APPOINTED “ OUTREACH WORKER “ WHY ARE WE NOT SURPRISED?? MAYBE WE ARE MISSING SOMETHING HERE?
DID YOU EVER THINK THAT YOURSELF, AND THE YOUNG LADY INSIDE (RIGHT OF PLACE) IN THE OFFICE, MIGHT BE DEPRIVING SURVIVORS OF A CHANCE TO WORK, AND HELP THEIR FELLOW SURVIVORS? AND TO MAKE IT WORSE STILL, BOTH OF YOU ARE NOT EVEN SURVIVORS? I THINK THAT’S VERY STRANGE.
HOW LONG DO THESE PEOPLE HAVE TO WAIT TO HAVE THEIR QUESTIONS ANSWERED? HOW MANY TIMES DO I NEED TO ASK YOUR FATHER TO EXPLAIN SOME SIMPLE QUESTIONS? WHEN IS HE GOING TO GRACE THE SURVIVORS WITH HIS PRESENCE FOR A GENERAL MEETING, SO SURVIVORS CAN ASK HIM TO EXPLAIN WHO HE IS, HOW HE GOT THERE, WHAT HE STANDS FOR, WHO PUT HIM THERE, AND ALL THESE OTHER RELEVANT QUESTIONS THEY NEED HIM TO ANSWER? DOES HE HAVE A HIDDEN AGENDA? PERHAPS?
PLEASE EXPLAIN THIS STATEMENT FROM YOURSELF, AND THESE ARE YOUR OWN WORDS. “ HOWEVER AFTER THE LESSONS OF THE PAST, IT DID NOT MATTER WHETHER YOU WERE A SURVIVOR OR A DEPENDANT, THE MOST QUALIFIED PERSON GOT THE JOB.”I SIR, MOST DEFINATLY DO NOT AGREE WITH YOU. WHO SAID YOU WERE THE MOST QUALIFIED? THE HSE? ARE YOU AWARE SIR, OF THIS NEW GOVERNMENTS INTENTIONS OF CLOSING DOWN THE HSE ALTOGETHER? I WONDER WHAT THE REASON FOR THAT MIGHT BE?
IT IS OBVIOUS FROM THE ABOVE COMMENT SIR, THAT YOU KNOW ABSOLUTELY NOTHING AT ALL ABOUT THE PAST, AND PRESENT HISTORY OF (RIGHT OF PLACE)
IM SURE THE LADY YOU SPEAK ABOUT IN THE OFFICES HAS A GREAT AFFINITY AS YOU SO PUT IT WITH MANY OF THE SURVIVORS, AND I HAVE NOTHING PERSONAL TO SAY ABOUT HER. BUT THE FACT IS SIR, SHE IS NOT A SURVIVOR, AND THAT IS NOT THE PLACE FOR HER.
I WONDER ALSO WHO THE 6 SURVIVORS WHO YOU SAY EVEN LOBBIED ON HER BEHALF, AND SAID SHE WOULD BE EXCELLENT AT THE JOB? I COULD ALMOSE GUESS.
YOU ALSO SAY THE ANGLING CLUB WAS AN IDEA FROM A SURVIVOR, WHO YOU SAID RANG UP AND ASKED FOR IT TO BE SET UP. IS IT THAT EASY TO HAVE A CLUB LIKE THAT SET UP ON A PHONE CALL FROM ONE SURVIVOR?
IF I SIR, AS A SURVIVOR RANG UP TOMORROW AND PROPOSED FOR A FLYING CLUB TO BE SET UP, WOULD THAT BE POSSIBLE ALSO. IS IT REALLY AS SIMPLE AS THAT?
I DON’T BELIEVE FOR ONE MINUTE EITHER, THAT YOU ARE GETTING CALLS FROM SURVIVORS WHO WANT TO RE-ENGAGE WITH THAT DISCREDITED PLACE IN LOWER GLANMIRE ROAD, (RIGHT OF PLACE) THIS I WILL BELIEVE, IF IT EVER HAPPENS. ALSO TO CALL THE PEOPLE IN THE HSE, WHO MADE THESE DECISIONS, (PROFESSIONAL) IS AN UNDERSTATEMENT. AND OF COURSE YOU WOULD STAND BY THEM NOW. WOULD’NT YOU.
WE ALL KNOW, AND UNDERSTAND, THE PROFESSIONALS WHO ALLOWED MR BARRY, AND THE NOW CHAIRMAN OF THE NEW BOARD OF DIRECTORS, (YOUR FATHER) TO REFUSE TO BE ACCOUNTABLE FOR THE (3.5 MILLION) THAT WAS PUMPED INTO (RIGHT OF PLACE)
THE CHAIRMAN OF THE SAME COMPANY (YOUR FATHER) MUST NOW ACCOUNT TO THE MEMBERSHIP FOR THIS MONEY. HE IS NOW FULLY RESPONSIBLE.
HE REFUSED TO SUPPORT HIS SECRETARY, AND TREASURER, WHEN THEY WANTED ACCOUNTABILITY, BUT THIS NO DOUBT WILL COME BACK TO HAUNT HIM AT A LATER DATE. TRUST ME!!
NONE OF MY SO CALLED ALLEGATIONS SIR ARE WITHOUT FOUNDATION. READ THE IRISH EXAMINER, IF YOU THINK THEY ARE WITHOUT FOUNDATION.
IT IS MY OPINION, AND THE OPINION OF MANY OTHERS, THAT YOU DID GET THAT POSITION BECAUSE OF NEPOTISM, AND THAT WILL REMAIN MY OPINION. WHY URGE THE PEOPLE ON THIS SITE TO CONTACT ANY OF YOUR OFFICES, TO HAVE THEIR QUESTIONS ANSWERED.
WHY DON’T YOUR FATHER, IN HIS POSITION OF CHAIRMAN, CALL A GENERAL MEETING, WHICH HE HAS NEVER DONE, AND ADDRESS THE MEMBERS IN AN OPEN DISCUSSION. IS THAT TOO MUCH TO ASK? THAT’S THE DEMOCRATIC WAY OF DOING THINGS, DO YOU NOT AGREE?
THERE IS AN OLD SAYING AS YOU MAY WELL BE AWARE OF MICHEAL, YOU CAN FOOL SOME OF THE PEOPLE SOME OF THE TIME, BUT YOU CANT FOOL ALL THE PEOPLE, ALL OF THE TIME.
IF YOU WANT SOME LEGAL ADVICE, I SUGGEST YOU ASK MR BARRY FOR ADVICE. HE TOOK OUT AN INJUNCTION AGAINST 4 FELLOW SURVIVORS WHO DID NOT AGREE WITH HIS GOVERNANCE, AND THEN DENIED THEM THEIR DAY IN COURT. HE COULD NOT AFFORD THE CASE TO GO INTO THE PUBLIC DOMAIN, FOR FEAR OF LANDING HIMSELF IN JAIL.
NOW THOSE 4 INNOCENT SURVIVORS, ARE STUCK WITH THEIR LEGAL COST’S FOR DEFENDING THEIR GOOD NAME, AND MR BARRY GOT AWAY SCOTT FREE, THANKS TO, NO SUPPORT FROM (YOUR FATHER) MR MICHAEL WALSH, WHO IS HIMSELF NOW, (CHAIRMAN OF THE BOARD)
Catherine you are right . The sheer energy of the Abuse passes on to the next generation in their DNA
I would like to apologise to Pauline if she felt my posting above was a personal attack on her; I was trying to explain my comment prior to that one.
The Last time I worked in the Voluntary Sector was 1989 as Manager of a Business Advice Agency; as I pointed out the Funding was against Clear Measurable Targets?
I try to help others with the knowledge I have picked up over the years.
The Chance of me being offered a Job by Right of Place are NONE!
The Chances of me accepting a Job with an Organisation that Will not Answer the Questions on this Site are Even Slimmer!
I still want them to Ballot their Current Members List to “Opt In”?
As for my “Unbalanced Views” They are my own and no one else’s; and I do not claim to speak for anyone else but me!
Well i had a message from rob on my page saying he did not intend to be hurtfull. i believe him of course. but i can see that both the michaels get treated well. and thier long winded comments about themselves seemto go on and on. i think we can be honest with each other about ourselves. i try anyway. but i dont see any effort on thier part to except our point of vue.and i found them anything but candid. so why was this said thats what i asked in the first place
Hi Paulene, no need to thank me, i was just expressing my feeling’s, which i beleive is allowed , i am fed up with the impression from some folk that only Group leader’s are entitled to be angry! AND DO WHAT THEY LIKE, DECEIVE FOLK, AND FUND THEIR OWN COMFORT’S, AND AS YOU RIGHTLY SAY, TAKE THE P OUT OF US ALL!
Be Strong, their day will come!
Jimmy
Well thanks james for your understanding . you know if thats answering to michaels best ability .Ifind it very strange that he should want to work with damaged people.Icant see any mention of his or his dads qualifications. and his answeres to normal questions are very evasive.there was no need at all to make a mystery out of himself. thats taking the piss out of us
Rob, you say Micheal has come clean, but i would ask you this question,If there was no deceit in the first place, there would have been no need to come clean!
How exactly are you qualified to know whether Michael has answered all question’s to the best of his ability?
It is very apparent to one and all here, that their question’s have been ignored, their skill at dodging these question’s , asked by Genuine Survivor’s, who have every right to ask, all ignored!
We have a crazy situation here, A Survivor who set’s himself up as Chairman of ROP, and
now his Son,(who is no more a Survivor than you Rob,) who is set up as an outreach officer in Co Waterford, and both of them claiming all is above board, nice cushy post’s, fully funded by the HSE, and you jumping on the bandwagon Rob, in singing their praise’s and defending them, and to add insult to injury, inflicting your unbalanced view’s on an elderly lady, a GENUINE SURVIVOR, who ,like so many Survivor’s here, and on your website, have clearly shown their feeling’s and concern’s about these Group’s and the Funding they receive, off the back’s of all Genuine Survivor’s.
I dont know or understand where you are coming from Rob, with your view’s, or what your ulterior motive is, you run Shame of Ireland, but you also run with hound’s ,so to speak, you clearly show that, and i thought your S O I site was for Survivor’s, but you ignore the damage the various Group’s have done and are still doing to Survivor’s! And your patronising them leave’s a sour taste in my throat!
The way you go on, i would not be shocked to see you appointed as ROP’s new outreach worker in the UK. Your attack on Paulene, and defence of the Walsh’s give’s this impression.
I want nothing more to do with your S O I , I would rename it SHAME OF WALE’S!
Jimmy
A survivor turns up in Dublin after many many years a certain government and religious surported and well funded so called group leader hears this survivor is about and seems to go into a panic and gathers the small group and tells them If they see this survivor NOT to have anything to do with her as she is Trouble ,thus blackening the name of the poor returning survivor who by the way happens to have grown up in the same industrial school as the government and religious funded group leader .>Who shouts about how much she cares and helps survivors >She helps them alright by frightening and Bullying the life out of them enough to make them either leave Ireland or move as far away from her as possible.
thanks Shane big respect to you and your brothers .thank you for your support :) God bless
JUSTICE NEEDS TO BE SERVED , GOD BLESS ALL VICTIMS AND SURVIVORS OF INSTITUTIONALISED ABUSE ..
JUDGEMENT DAY IS COMING MY BROTHERS AND SISTERS ..
STAY STRONG …..
all our respect ,and honour
your brother in arms
Shane Bryant / Founder`Director, G.F.P.C./Mixed Martial Artist
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Global-Fighters-Protecting-Children/201271499900398
Mrs Buckley will you put the names of all the Victims that you have claimed funding for over the years, The Victims have a human right to know who has had their names on their lists and how much funding you received for each Victim, >Reminds me that’s just how the Nun’s and Christian Brothers and other religious did it in Industrial Prisons for their funding they could have added as many names as they liked as NO ONE CHECKED NOR CARED.
Marie Therese O’Loughlin, you say kindness to all survivors???should NOT that include> UNDERSTANDING <when SURVIVORS come back to ireland after living often totally alone in foregin countrys often not well AND DISTRESSED having hidden buried and blocked out their past for many lonley years but the SOUL becomes desparate and awakes with an overpowering desparate need to find something or someone who might remember them as a child ,to find any link that might marry them to their past ,Root's or childhood ,even to find a photograph hidden in someones file or kept by someone who for some very selfish reason holds onto Photos often photos that they themselves are not even in,those photos could be a massive part of the Victims healing if they are in those photos to just see they were once a child,many years later after much Mental torment they book their flight and arrive in Ireland ,the fear and horrible Memories rush back only to be met with TOTAL HOSTILITY and INDIFFERENCE Bullied and Mentally brused again troding the lonley pavements to sit alone in some Hotel or Bed and Breakfast how many survivors who have homes and Never left Eire offered any kindness to put them up ????????NONE, at the end of the day NOONE in Ireland gives a fiddlers Fart weather its their first return visit or they never come back,and that is a very good reason to SCRAP THE STATUARY TRUST FUND AND COMPANSATE THE VICTIMS AND DISBAND ALL THOSE GROUPS EVERY ONE OF THEM.
We had Mr Barry, We had Mr Waters and Family(Avoca House) where is all that money in their funding in our names gone????Now We have the allusive Mr Walsh and Family. >Buckley and Family, when is the government going to stop all this ,In order that we the survivors can move on we must be compensated instead of giving funding to those groups that most real survivors have never used nor benefited from ,It’s unhealthy as it holds the past in the present all the time and That is only in groups interest to continue getting FUNDING in our name .The government should check out all names those people claim to represent with each person whose name is on some list, If my name has been on any list over the years I will take the person to court for Theft of my Identity for criminal gains. All those groups who claimed expenses over the years need to explain what the money was for.
Hi Pauline,
Michael has come clean about who his Father is, knowing full the response that he would reecieve, he has answered the questions to the best of his ability?
I can respect a Man or Woman without agreeing with everything they say.
I have worked in the Voluntary Sector in the UK and Funding there is on Clear Measurable Outcomes!
These are Supported by Case Studies of what HAS be achieved?
Sometimes even Reports for the Funding Organisation highlighting NEEDS and How those Needs CAN and will be MET?
After 10 YEARS I would expect THIS????
ALL this should be in the PUBLIC DOMAIN for ALL to SEE?
“Democracy Inclusion and Transparency for ALL”
lets say there was no payment for works done at R O P first/second chance with minimal expenses !! i wonder how many would be on the bandwagon then ??
could somebody anybody point me to a comment on this site as to help they have been given from R O P or any group and if that help was usefull satisfactory ??
FOR YEARS WE HAVE BEEN LOOKING FOR ANSWERS FROM ROP THE VEC AND THE HSE,ALL WE GET IS LIES AND
CONTEMPT.
WHAT IS THERE TO HIDE,SURLEY THE VEC AND THE HSE
MUST ANSWER THE QUESTIONS ASKED,THEY ARE PUBLIC
BODIES ,NOT SECRET ORGANISITIONS!!!!!!!!!!!
I THINK THE ONLY WAY WE CAN GET ANSWERS IS TO GO
TO THE MEDIA AND GET THIS DISGRACE DEBATED ON THE JOE DUFFY SHOW VINCENT BROWNE OR PAT KENNY.
ALL SURVIVERS SHOULD GO TOO THEIR TDS AND GET IT BROUGHT UP IN THE DAIL WE SURVIVERS ARE NOT YOUNG ANY MORE TIME IS RUNNING OUT (HOW MANY OF US WILL BE ALIVE NEXT YEAR).WHY CANT WE GO TO THE COURT OF HUMAN RIGHT TO GET THE TRUTH ONCE AND FOR ALL
AS TO OUR SO CALLED GROUPE LEADERS YOU HAVE CREATED MORE HURT AND PAIN AND DISCUST TO ALL SURVIVERS BUT REMEMBER JUSTICE WILL PREVAIL AND
YOU WILL ALL HAVE TO ANSWER TO MAN AND GOD
Micheal- It’s a bit rich using words like “slanderous and disrespectful” to Mossie, a survivor, when you claim to care so much about survivors, and especially so, when Right of Place Second Chance, are in receipt of funds with a Highly Questionable Membership.
Throwing about unproven figures like 1.750, is showing total disrespect for survivors and families alike and an insult to their/our intelligence…(and the Government of course)
It’s only a matter of time Micheal, when this group and all groups, will become accountable to Government and Religious, for their membership and financial expenditure, so wouldn’t get too cosy or smug if I were you!
I would however wish you every success in any other work you may obtain outside of the Funded Survivor Groups – Kay
Hello rob what do you mean by the word candour concerning mini michael. after all i only just found out that thay were both called michael walsh .and its been a while now on both sites so how come. we did try and find out how many there were.Of course the hse. vec arange things out of pure friendship im sure. thats always been the case .if thay did understand us this thing would not exist.thay would be listening to us instead of expecting us to listen them .
YOUR’E WELCOME ROB. MOSSIE.
JAMES, YOU ARE CORRECT THERE. THEY HAVE INDEED BEEN TOLD ABOUT ALL OF THIS CARRY ON IN RIGHT OF PLACE ESPECIALLY, BUT FOR SOME UNKNOWN REASON, THEY TEND TO IGNORE IT, WHY? I DON’T KNOW.
BUT THE MOST UNUSUAL THING ABOUT IT ALL, NO ONE SEEMS TO WANT TO INVESTIGATE ALL OF THIS? I CANNOT WONDER WHY?
THE MEDIA, IN FAIRNESS, ESPECIALLY THE EXAMINER HAVE BEEN HIGHLIGHTING THIS FOR A LONG TIME NOW, BUT IT SEEMS TO BE FALLING ON DEAF EARS. I STILL THINK, (PERSONALLY) THAT MR NOEL C BARRY, AND HIS HENCHMEN ARE STILL WORKING AWAY BEHIND THE SCENES, IN THE BACKGROUND.
I AM ALSO INCLINED TO AGREE WITH YOU, JIMMY THAT THE HSE ARE INDEED INCAPABLE OF, OR SIMPLY DON’T WANT TO INVESTIGATE THESE PEOPLE. WHO KNOWS, MAYBE THEY HAVE THEIR OWN REASONS FOR DOING THIS?
MICHAEL JUNIOR DID SAY THAT ALL SURVIVORS COULD HAVE APPLIED FOR THESE VACANCIES, AND EVERYONE IN RIGHT OF PLACE WAS INFORMED OF THIS. THAT IS INCORRECT. CAN ANYONE IN RIGHT OF PLACE CONFIRM THIS?
ANYONE I HAVE MET HAVE ASSURED ME, THEY WERE NEVER ASKED, OR GOT APPLICATION FORMS TO APPLY FOR THE VACANCIES. AND PER CHANCE, MICHAEL JUNIOR, JUST SO HAPPENS TO HAVE FILLED THE VACANCY, AND HIS FATHER HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH IT? I FOR ONE DO NOT BELIEVE THAT FOR ONE MINUTE.
I AM NOT SAYING THAT JUNIOR WOULD NOT BE CAPABLE OF DOING THE JOB, BUT THE FACT THAT ANY SURVIVOR DID NOT GET EVEN HALF A CHANCE AT APPLYING FOR IT.
YES, YOU WILL HEAR PLENTY ABOUT WHAT THEY HAVE DONE, AND SO ON, BUT YOU WILL NEVER GET ANY PROOF. AS FOR NEW APPLICANTS, I WOULD LOVE TO SEE THAT LIST, I WOULD LOVE TO LEARN WHAT METHODS WERE USED TO OBTAIN THEM?
AS FOR THEIR MEMBERSHIP JIMMY, THEY WILL NEVER TELL YOU. THE DATABASE THEY TOOK OVER FROM THE LAST REGIME, WAS ALWAYS QUESTIONABLE, AND TO THIS DAY IS MORE SO. THESE ARE THE MEMBERS THEY CLAIM TO REPRESENT. BUT DON’T YOU THINK THEY SHOULD AT LEAST, (ASK) THESE MEMBERS, IF INDEED THEY WISH THIS NEW GROUP TO REPRESENT THEM? DO THESE PEOPLE EVEN KNOW HOW THEIR NAMES, AND ADDRESSES CAME TO BE ON THAT DATABASE? I BET NOT.
I WOULD ALSO LIKE TO ASK MR WALSH, HOW MANY OF THE OLD REGIME, ARE STILL WORKING FOR RIGHT OF PLACE, EITHER IN THEIR OFFICES, OR OUTSIDE? ALSO HOW MANY OF A STAFF THEY HAVE ON THEIR PAYROLL. THE LAST I HEARD THERE WERE (18) STAFF, WHAT DO THEY DO? THERE NEVER SEEMS TO BE ANY MORE THAN ONE OR TWO THERE WHEN EVER YOU CALL. AND MR WALSH, I BELIEVE, CAN ONLY BE GOT ON A THURSDAY. HOW COME. DO YOU NEED 18 PEOPLE TO RUN THIS PLACE? WELCOME HOUSE IS NOW GONE, AND THEY STILL SEEM TO HAVE 18 STAFF. VERY STRANGE INDEED.
YOU COULD KEEP ASKING QUESTIONS JIMMY, BUT THEY WONT ANSWER. YOU WILL ONLY GET THE MUSHROOM SYNDROME. KEPT IN THE DARK, AND FILLED FULL OF S**T. TAKE CARE MOSSIE
Micheal,when you joined The Shame Of Ireland you never mention you were the son of Micheal Walsh I find that dishonest.Opening more centers in Ireland wont help survivors living in different parts of the world.The Government needs to listen to survivors and disband all groups they only care about themselves.
YES KAY, I SUPPOSE THEY ARE A FAMILY CONCERN, AND YES I DID INDEED NOTICE HIS CANVASSING FOR MEMBERSHIP, AND I HAVE NO DOUBT, THE REASON FOR THIS IS, THAT HE HAS NO MEMBERSHIP?
HOW ON EARTH COULD HE HAVE MEMBERSHIP, WHEN HE NEVER EVEN HAD A MEETING WITH THIS ALLEGED (1,750) SURVIVORS, HE IS SUPPOSED TO REPRESENT?
HE IS DOING EXACTLY THE SAME THING AS HIS PREDECESSOR DID. WHEREEVER THEY GOT THE NAMES AND ADDRESSES FOR THE SURVIVORS ON THAT DATABASE OF HIS, (HAS TO BE ILLEGAL)
WHEN DOES HE INTEND TO SEND OUT APPLICATION FORMS TO ALL OF THOSE PEOPLE? WHEN DOES HE INTEND TO HOLD A GENERAL MEETING FOR THE SURVIVORS ON HIS DATABASE?
IS THIS TOO MUCH TO ASK OF SOMEONE WHO IS SUPPOSED TO REPRESENT SURVIVORS? I DON’T THINK SO. HE IS TREATING ALL SURVIVORS WITH THE EXACT SAME CONTEMPT AS HIS PREDECESSOR. NOTHING CHANGES.
YES KAY, IS SURE IS THE FIRST. I WONDER HOW MANY HE WILL GET? NOT TOO MANY WE WOULD GUESS.
LIKE I STATED A LONG TIME AGO. PEOPLE NEED TO WRITE TO MR WALSH IN RIGHT OF PLACE, AND DEMAND THEIR NAMES AND ADDRESSES BE REMOVED FROM THEIR (ILLEGAL) DATABASE. AND ALSO TO BE ISSUED WITH A PERSONAL GUARANTEE, FROM MR WALSH PERSONALLY, THAT THIS HAS BEEN DONE.
THAT’S A GOOD IDEA ALSO KAY, WHEN YOU SUGGESTED ALL EMAIL THEIR CONCERNS TO THE NEW GOVERNMENT MINISTERS, AND TO HIGHLIGHT THEIR CONCERNS.
I AM DOING THIS KAY, AFTER OVERSEEING THE SO CALLED (SCAM ELECTIONS) THIS PARTY IN RIGHT OF PLACE HELD DURING LAST YEAR. BELIEVE ME, NOTHING HAS CHANGED IN RIGHT OF PLACE, ONLY THE DICTATOR. NOTHING WAS LEGALLY DONE. THEY ALL KNOW IT, BUT SO DO WE.
High time for a fair attempt at justice!
Mossie, For £26,ooo, plus expense’s, and allowance’s, a year , i think many of us could easily claim to be passionate about a job.
Over the last 10 year’s, the HSE were made aware of the fact’s about the massive funding to various Group’s, and especially ROP, who certainly milked it for all they could get, and failed to justify!
Survivor’s and the new’s media, Cork Examiner, and other paper’s, made these fact’s apparent to the HSE, but all to no avail!
So , in view of the fact that the HSE did not bother to investigate these matter’s, and the fact that they continue to fund these Group’s, and ignore Survivor’s comment’s and concern’s, would indeed be proof that the HSE are incapable of giving fair decision’s.
Michael jnr, has stated that each and every member and their family’s could have applied for position’s that were availible, but as a former member, i was never made aware of any position’s that were avialible, was never informed ,or invited to apply for anything, so that is total b******T.
The only time i ever asked for anything, was from the ROP chairman, Michael’s Dad, and that was back in Oct2010, when i received a letter asking me to travel to London, attend a meetin and make a vote for London deligate’s, I replied that i would be willing to do this, if he could arrange to fund me the travel and meal cost for the day out, explaining that i am an OAP, and could not afford it. £40 would have covered this, as i live near Brighton. Needless to say , i got no reply or contact on this matter. Even though they have all my detail’s.
While there is much mention of various way’s this family concern are going to help Survivor’s /Member’s,with welfare, housing, social inclusion, fishing club, healing centre, etc etc, it seem’s to me that unless you reside in Southern Ireland, you wont qualify for even any sort of help,or support!
There is plenty said about the folk they have helped and supported so far, but where is there any actual evidense of this?
Plenty said about the amount of new applicant’s, but again ,where is there proof of this?
Many question’s were asked concerning the member’s they took over from the old ROP, but were ignored. Question’s like the actual amount of member’s they claim to currently have, Question’s about the amount of member’s they have lost , through resignation, or no longer with us?
How many reader’s here and on S O Ireland , can offer actual confirmation, that they have had support / help from this ROP or the old outfit?
I dont recall ever reading a posting of anyone singing the praise’s of either of these outfit’s.
It appear’s that this new ROP are going to be a Family concern, Chairman, and Outreach Officer, one in Waterford, the other in Cork, with no doubt cushy secure steady employment, well paid, and nicely furnished Office’s , fully staffed, and all funded out of the biggest part of the Religious Contribution’s, which were in fact ,intended for Survivor’s!
And with the HSE and VEC involved, a fair and just settlement for ALL Survivor’s, living all over the world, now seem’s very unlikly!
An important lesson keep’s bugging me, i used to think all Survivor’s were equal, but over the year’s it has been my impression that there are Survivor’s who deem themselve’s more EQUAL than other’s !
I leave it to the reader here to decide who in fact these folk are?
Jimmy
Mossie, Thank you for Asking the Questions!
Michael, Thank you for Your Candour!
My Respect for both of you Remains Intact!
Michael, just what are your Qualifications ?that you believe you are the right person to be able to deal with survivors who suffered inhuman brutiality through their whole childhood’s,what are you trained in???? Survivors have been Abused and Used by dodgey Groups and their self appointed Ego Tripping so called Leaders who all Feathered their own NESTS, while many real Victims never got any real help indeed NO help at all ,many were left to sleep out on the streets ,or had to queue up to get into a homeless hostel for the night ,many left to suffer alone in different parts of the world with NO help many in bad health,many who tried to return to ireland found themselves BULLIED when they went to ask advice or god forgive IN NEED OF HELP none was ever forthcoming ,those groups are nothing but a sham and all they are interested in is the FUNDING .SO Michael I will Also try asking you a question WHO ARE YOU, WHAT QUALIFICATIONS DO YOU HAVE TO DEAL WITH VICTIMS OF SERIOUS CHILD ABUSE? NONE I AMAGINE .ARE YOU A FRIEND OF NOEL BARRY, OR BUCKLEY??DO YOU HAVE ANY DEALINGS WITH THESE PEOPLE ,THE ABUSE SUFFERED BY CHILDREN IN THOSE DARK PRISONS WAS SO GREAT IT LEFT LASTING DAMAGE, SO MICHAEL YOU DONT HAVE A CLUE HOW TO DEAL WITH ABUSE VICTIMS.WHAT IS YOUR NAME >>>>CAN YOU ANSWER THAT. WE HAVE A HUMAN RIGHT TO KNOW WHO IS TELLING US THEY WILL GET HUGE FUNDING IN OUR NAME .
MICHEAL WHEN YOU FIRST COMMENTED ON THIS SITE YOU
SAID YOU WERE A DECENDENT OF A SURVIVER YOU NEVER MENTIONED YOU WERE THE SON OF MICHAEL WALSH THE NEW NOEL BARRY,ALL THE QUESTIONS THAT MOSSIE ASKED WERE NEVER ANSWERED ALL WE GOT WAS GIBBERISH
AND LIES
I WILL ASK YOU(AND YOUR FATHER) AGAIN WHERE IS THE MONEY GIVING TO ROP GONE NO ANNUAL REPORT ON
FINANCES,NO MEETINGS HELD,NO EXPENESES EXPLAINED
OFFICES OPENED ALLOVER IRELAND NO EXPLANATION ON
SALARIES OR PERKS,
TO ME THIS IS A TOTAL RIP OFF FOR THE BOYS RUNNING THESE OFFICES AND THEIR CRONIES.
YOU MENTIONED THE HSE SAYING THEY APPOINTED YOU
THERE NEVER WAS AN ANOUNCEMENT OF YOU GETTING ON THE GRAVY TRAIN WHY!
THE MONIES THAT YOU AND YOUR CRONIES ARE GETTING
SHOULD BE FOR SURVIVERS NOT TO KEEP ALL YOUR CARTELS GOING.
YOU WONT PULL THE WOOL OVER MY EYES WITH YOUR FANCY TALK AND LIES THE LOT OF YE SHOULD BE ASHAMED IT WAS BAD ENOUGH BEEN ABUSED BY THE INDUSTRIAL SCHOOLS BUT WHEN OUR OWN TRY TO RIP US OFF ENOUGH IS ENOUGH
ONLY FOR THE LIKES OF MOSSIE WHO IS NOT AFRAID TO OPEN HIS MOUTH AND QUESTION YOU ON YOUR ANTICS
AND LIES WE WOULD ALL BE IN THE DARK ON WHAT IS
HAPPENING IN THAT HELL HOLE CALLED RIGHT OF PLACE MAY GOD FORGIVE THE LOT OF YE
Well at least now we know who you are . QUESTION wHAT ARE YOUR QUALIFICATIONS. and what is this system of healing . i have only heard about it on the site .you know michael mossie must have his reasons for such anger.if you could explain to us why you as a dependent of a surviver think that your ideas of what we need are so different from ours. you have mentioned the fishing or angling progect that people make inquiries is normal it doesnt mean anything. if you are so interested in survivers then why do you react as if its upsetting to you to be asked questions by survivers on these sites.there souldnt be the closed attitude that you and your dad show towardes us . you know its no help at all to people who had to leave ireland. your framework makes it impossable for all survivers to take part but we are helping to pay your salery. public opinion does not know this. we are not an industrie for you to base your future on.if you need to feel useful collect stamps that way you will cause less harm. you know we all have feelings
Michael if One has a question would we have to fill out a form or give all our details ie what child prison we were in, how long, ect ,then we would be on your list??? I tried getting help many years ago and was bullied ,noone wanted to know ,I had to go to the salvation Army and pay them also a private company to try and find my siblings. There has been NO help ,the only help we have had is Paddys web site and Robert Northall’S SHAME OF IRELAND. in order that we can air our hurt PARHAPS FIND A SIBLING OR COUSIN ON THE SITE WHICH HAS HAPPENED.and find out what is going on.i LOST A FORTUNE THROUGH BEEN BULLIED BY A SO CALLED GROUP LEADER AND HER FRIENDS ,WHEN i WAS AT MY MOST VULNERABLE HAVING JUST COME OUT OF HOSPITAL,THEY DID NOT WANT TO KNOW AND THAT WAS 10 YEARS AGO AND THAT SO CALLED GROUP LEADER HAS BEEN GETTING HUGE FUNDING IN OUR NAME WHICH ONLY THAT PERSON AND THEIR CLOSE FRIENDS AND FAMILY HAVE BENIFITED FROM THAT. I WOULD NEVER TRUST ANYONE GROUPS EVER AGAIN.I WAS LEFT OUT IN THE COLD REALLY SUFFERING ALONE . AND STILL HAVE NOT FOUND MY SIBLINGS.MOSSIE HAS A RIGHT TO AIR HIS VIEWS AND QUESTIONS IT SOUNDS LIKE YOU ARE HAVING A GO AT HIM TO ME NONE OF US HAVE HAD ANY JUSTICE SO FAR.I DONT KNOW WHO YOU ARE >SO I ASK >WHO ARE YOU??????
Hi,
The reason as to why I am commenting on this website is to dissuade anyone who is persuaded by the absolutely unfounded allegation of Nepotism and the disgraceful way this treats my own abilities and work that I have and will continue to do for Survivors in my area.
I also want to clear the air surrounding some of Mossie’s comments as they are without foundation and could be construed as slanderous. I can understand questions being raised, but I can not understand accusations being made that have no rational reasoning behind them.
I will also reiterate that I am leaving these comments from a personal point of view and they do not represent the views of ROP Second Chance.
To Mossie, let me address the number of incorrect assumptions and unfair comments that you have made:
1) I was never appointed by my father into my position in ROP, but I was assigned the post based on my qualifications and previous experience by two representatives. They were one from the HSE and the other from the VEC. In fact whilst I had my interview and the discussions that took place thereafter, my father was not involved. As a direct result he had no say in the decision. Are you trying to say that both the VEC and the HSE are incapable of making a decision fairly and based on the facts that they had in front of them?
2) I am sure Mr.William McAllister would like to read of your accusations, which are unfounded, when it was a member of the HSE who decided on who would take up the new positions.
3) It is true to make the case that I will never feel the hurt that each survivor on this planet has. The pain they live through each and every day is something any one who has not experienced this can never truly understand. However I have lived through the pain and effects this has had on my loved ones lives, I have seen the devastation at first hand that this has created, just as all dependents and family members have. So do you mean to say our comments and opinions are not valid? Be careful how you say things Mossie as it may lead to alienating the familys of survivors who actively comment on these websites and have an important contribution to make into the future.
4)Each and every member of ROP (Survivors) and their family’s were invited to apply for the positions available, and as such each survivor had as much chance as any to get the positions. However after the lessons of the past, it did not matter whether you were a survivor or a dependent, the most qualified person got the job. Which i’m sure you would agree with?
5) I am no way a spokesperson for the girl in ROP Cork and knowing her she is more then capable to speak for herself. However I cannot allow such a comment to go without correction. I was aware that she has been working in the office for quite some time and as such has a great affinity with many of the survivors who attend ROP Cork. SO much so that I am aware of at least 6 Survivors who actually lobbied on her behalf to say they felt she would be excellent at the job.
6)The Angling club, was an idea from a survivor who phoned the office and asked for it to be set up. Infact there has been many survivors who have rang to get information on it and participate.
7)The Labh Healing center is run by a fellow Survivor who generously and free of charge set this center up, to support survivors who wanted an opportunity to relax or try and escape in a non judgmental environment. To say that it is a scam is nothing short of disrespectful to the gentleman who runs this.
I would urge you to show fairness on a fellow survivor who has done nothing but try and help survivors in a way he saw fit.
8) I have already had, in the Waterford office many calls of support and even members looking at re-engaging with ROP as a result of the changes that were taking place. I have even had a number of phone calls and visits from people who wanted to join ROP for the very first time.
9) My skills and qualifications were judged by professionals from the VEC and the HSE and I stand by their judgment to place me in a position that I am both qualified for and so passionate about – Helping Survivors.
So much so Mossie that I would even urge you (if you are in the Waterford/ Eastern Area) to contact me if you ever need support or help with anything – thats what I am here for.
However I would plead with you that if you have anger towards something/somebody or an organization then that is your right. If you have issues with something that is your right but I would stress not to leave slanderous allegations WITHOUT FOUNDATION.
My role is to help survivors and their families, to advocate on their behalf for Housing, Welfare Education, Social Inclusion amongst others and this is what I remember 7 days a week.
To summarize, it is slanderous and disrespectful, without foundation, to insinuate that I received the position because of nepotism. It is unfairly undermining the job that I am here to do and does not help the many visits and callers I have already helped in my area.
I hope people on this site can understand the above points and do not listen to incorrect assumptions from Mossie as they are completely incorrect. I would urge anyone on this website to contact any of the offices if they have a question or need support and judge for themselves.
It is simply to important an issue to live off hear say.
Hi Mossie, good to see your(revised)comment back, a very easy mistake to make, Mr Walsh senior and Mr Walsh junior led us a fine merry dance on the Shame of Ireland
Micheal said,However as a dependent of a survivor who has several relatives who are members of right of place
Family concern???
Did you also notice on this newsletter the heading?
Applications for membership
This has to be a first, we have to ensure they delete all the illegally held membership and speak only on behalf of those who HAVE filled in a valid membership form
Suggest everyone send emails to the new Government with their concerns, I have sent several this week and have had one reply so far …. Kay
HI JAMES, SORRY FOR THE DELAY IN ANSWERING. I’M NOT SURE WHO’S IDEA IT WAS TO START THIS FISHING CAPER. PROBABLY SOMEONE IN RIGHT OF PLACE SUDDENLY GOT A BRAINWAVE, BUT MAY I SAY NOT A VERY GOOD ONE, IT’S MOST LIKELY TO BENEFIT SOMEONE IN RIGHT OF PLACE, AND CERTAINLY NOT THE SURVIVOR.
THINK ABOUT IT, WHAT SURVIVOR, AND MOST ARE NOW AGED PEOPLE, WOULD WANT TO JOIN AN ANGLING CLUB AT THEIR AGE? HOW DID THEY COME UP WITH THE IDEA OF AN ANGLING CLUB IN THE FIRST PLACE? I BET, NOT ONE SURVIVOR WAS EVEN ASKED? ACTUALLY I KNOW, NO ONE WAS ASKED.
I TOOK DOWN MY LAST COMMENT, AS I GOT A FEW ITEMS INCORRECT IN IT. SORRY ABOUT THAT. HOWEVER I HAVE RE SUBMITTED THE COMMENT AGAIN, WITH THE PROPER CORRECTIONS. ONCE AGAIN, SORRY FOR THE MISTAKES.
HOWEVER, ASSISTING SURVIVORS IS NOT ONE OF THEIR BEST POINTS, WHEN YOU MENTION HELP, YOU WILL BE LEFT ON YOUR OWN, HENCE HIM NOT GETTING BACK TO YOU.
YOU HIT THE NAIL ON THE HEAD JIMMY, WHEN YOU POINTED OUT MR WALSH HAD SAID THE GOVERNMENT SHOULD SHARE OUT THE ( 110 ) MILLLION, TO THE SURVIVORS, AND ON THE OTHER HAND HE ( CLEARLY STATES ) IN HIS FEBRUARY NEWSLETTER THAT, THEYCLEARLY WANT THE BULK OF THE RELIGIOUS CONTRIBUTION’S RETAINED, AS A SO CALLED TRUST FUND.
HE HAS STATED THAT HE WANTS, WHAT THE SURVIVORS WANT, AND CLAIMS TO US ALL, THAT IS WHAT HE IS FIGHTING FOR, BUT ON THE OTHER HAND HE HAS DIFFERENT IDEAS FOR THE REMAINDER OF THE CONTRIBUTIONS.
THIS ALONE TELLS US ALL, WHERE MR WALSH AND HIS FOLLOWERS PREFERENCES LIE. THEY WANT A TRUST FUND. HE HAS STATED THIS CLEARLY IN HIS NEWSLETTER THIS MONTH. DOES HE REALLY THINK ALL SURVIVORS ARE STUPID OR WHAT? MR BARRY THOUGHT SO TOO, AND LOOK WHERE THAT GOT HIM.
I HAVE PUT NUMEROUS QUESTIONS TO MR WALSH ON THIS SITE. DOES ANYONE SEE HIM ANSWERING ANY OF THOSE QUESTIONS? ( NO ) WHY, BECAUSE HE KNOWS I AM ASKING ALL THE RIGHT QUESTIONS. HE WONT GIVE ME AN ANSWER, BUT THAT IN ITSELF SPELLS GUILT. ISN’T THAT CORRECT MR WALSH.
WHEN ARE YOU GOING TO CALL YOUR FIRST MEETING OF YOUR ( SO CALLED MEMBERS? ) I AM TELLING YOU SIR, THAT THE DATABASE YOU HOLD IS TOTALLY AND UTTERLY ILLEGAL. I BET THERE ARE NAMES ON THAT DISC THAT ALREADY SHOULD HAVE BEEN REMOVED, BUT HAVE NOT.
UNTIL YOU RESPOND TO SURVIVORS SIR, I WILL CALL YOU A LIAR. YOU ARE AFRAID TO HOLD A MEETING, AND CONFRONT YOUR ( SO CALLED MEMBERSHIP ) IN CASE PEOPLE ASK YOU. HOW THEIR NAMES AND ADDRESSES HAPPENED TO BE ON YOUR DATABASE, WITHOUT THEIR PROPER CONSENT.
HOW DID YOU OBTAIN THESE NAMES MR WALSH? I ASK YOU AGAIN. I ASKED THE PREVIOUS DICTATOR THE SAME QUESTIONS, ONLY TO BE MET WITH THE VERY SAME CONTEMPT AS YOU ARE SHOWING TO SURVIVORS MR WALSH.
AND YES JIMMY, THE GROUP IS INDEED RUNNING ON EMPTY, AS YOU SO PUT IT, REGARDING THE MEMBERSHIP THEY ALLEGE THEY HAVE, AND ARE INDEED IN THERE FOR THE SOLE PURPOSE OF FEATHERING THEIR OWN NEST’S. YES THEY HAVE EVERYTHING TO HIDE, AND AS LONG AS THEY DONT HAVE TO ANSWER QUESTIONS, THEY WILL SURVIVE FOREVER. SO I WOULD URGE EVERYONE TO KEEP UP THE PRESSURE ON RIGHT OF PLACE, UNTIL SUCH TIME AS TO HAVE THEIR QUESTIONS ANSWERED.
IMPORTANT IMPORTANT IMPORTANT
After getting himself appointed ’Chairman’ of the ‘ Board of Directors’ of ‘Right of Place’; with unlimited expenses, is there no end to this Mr. Michael Walsh’s greed.
He has now appointed his ( Son ) Outreach Worker, for the Waterford Eastern region of Right of Place, at a starting Salary of €26,000 per annum. (As per his latest newsletter),
How can the Chairman of the Board of Directors, of a Charitable company; now appoint his SON as a salaried worked for that Charity. This Smells of Gross Nepotism. Please explain Mr. Walsh??
It is written into the Company’s Articles (copy to be had by anyone), that no remuneration is to be paid to any of the Directors sitting on the board, YET, in blatant disregard of the Company Articles, the Chairman now decides to use his Influence to have his SON engaged as a salaried employee.
When will these questionable, governance practices cease Mr. Walsh?
Is the HSE now funding Family members of the Board of Directors to, work for the company?
The Survivors would consider this to be very dodgy governance practices; or do they even know?
Please read this Mr. William McCallister (HSE ) or better still, I will send you a copy. After all it is public money we are dealing with here.
Mr Noel C. Barry was able to pull the wool over the last CEO Fund master, but not this time.
There is also an Outreach Worker appointed, inside, in the office of Right of Place, who is not even a Survivor.
Is the company going to continue to give jobs away to people who are not Survivors, ( His Son, and the young lady in the office ) when there are plenty of qualified Survivors in the organization who are desperately looking for work.
The young lady in question is studying at the moment to be a social worker.
Therefore she has not got the qualifications or skills necessary to perform Outreach Work for Survivors.
How can she perform Outreach Work sitting inside in an office?
I believe her father is a great drinking buddy of Noel C. Barry.
I wonder, if indeed the other two remaining members of The New Board of Directors realize, that the remaining Family members of The Chairman may usurp their positions on The Board.
In the eyes of the Law, (Ignorance) is no excuse.
Are they now going to apply for Jobs as, (Outreach Officers?)
I see from your February Newsletter yesterday, you intend to start an Angling Club for your Members. What Members? You don’t have any. You say the reason you are doing this is because, ye have noticed, that there are no facilities of a Social Nature, that members can avail of within (Right of Place, Second Chance.
Perhaps if you held a General Meeting, Mr Walsh, Survivors might be able to get to know one another. I really done see how your Angling Club is going to help? Tell me, have you asked Survivors if they would like to start a Club?Or are you TELLING them, that’s what you are organizing?
Can you tell your (So Called Members) Mr Walsh, what qualifications does your Local area, Right of Place workers have, to deal with the Issues Survivors might have. Please let us know. It is of the (UTMOST IMPORTANCE)
“You also stated in your most recent Newsletter that, Right of place Second Chance, also make the case that- not only should the (110) million be handed over to Survivors immediately, but that the (450) million which the Church is being asked to hand over to The State as payment for the Redress which has already being paid out- should in fact be used as a Health/ Welfare Support Aid for Survivors, to aid us in our ill health, and support us and our Dependants in our time of need, so that we can live with Dignity, and die in peace”. How very presumptuous of you Mr Walsh, to intonate that we will die in peace, or indeed that we lack Dignity. Please chose your words carefully.
YOUR FEBRUARY NEWSLETTER IS BOTH INCORRECT, AND MISLEADING.
AT NO TIME WHATSOEVER HAVE THE CHURCH MADE ANY OFFER OF REPARATION TO SURVIVORS FOR CRIMES COMMITTED BY THEM, SO YOUR ASSERTION IN YOUR NEWSLETTER, THAT THE CHURCH HAS BEEN ASKED TO HAND OVER ( 450 MILLION EURO ) IS COMPLETELY FALSE SIR.
This Sir is (NOT) what Survivors have asked for. You obviously are Not Listening to the Survivors at all, and how can you know what they want, if you never met them.
I see, you are also Canvassing now for The Lamb Healing facility, another Scam no doubt. You tell us there is no demand for money, and you tell us you Discreetly left Twenty-Five Euros, as an act of Goodwill? But you Discreetly printed the fact that you left (Euro25). Not very discreet, is it Mr Walsh? I suppose you will reclaim that (25 Euro) in your Expenses?
Watch this space for future Adverts.
never has any of these groups ever approached me and asked me if I wanted to sign as a member and i’m sure their are thousands of survivors that have not been approached and asked to sign to these groups giving them permission to represent them, these groups are i illegal until they are able to prove otherwise. the are conning the Government out of millions of Euro’s and can the show where the money has been spent,can the heck, shame on the governments for allowing this to happen and for believing these groups when they say the represent the survivors.
I for one have had enough of all the tripe being spouted by these groups and government and I am considering going on hunger strike outside a prominent building in Dublin this year any support would be appreciated.Please check comments on this page for updates.
I remember a few years ago, can’t remember the exact date when Noel Barry a solicitor and his mob came to a meeting of right of place her in England which Tom Cronin was chairman. Noel Barry tried to force the committee to resign on the grounds that right of place in england had no right to exist and that their should be only one right of place and that was Noel Barry’s right of place in Cork,Ireland, Mr Barry was told where to go and take his mob with him and was very lucky he was’nt lynched. I am not a member of right of place but i’ll bet any body that my name is on their list in Cork ROP.
Mossie, is the new fishing club Mr Walsh’s idea to hook in new member’s?
Not very long ago, i received a letter from this same Mr Walsh, assuring me that he was not paid a wage, that he was a family man, with Children, and was doing all this ROP work, with out any pay, except expences! He actually asked me if i begrudged him those expence’s, and i said i did, as when i explained why i could not travel from Brighton to London ,at his request, in order to cast a vote, but would do ,if he would assist me with the travel and meal cost the day would entail, my letter was ,needless to say ,not answered!
So now it seem’s he has gone from a pennyless family man , to a 26,000 euro wage a year ,plus expence’s, off the back’s of Survivor’s he claim’s to represent.The mind boggle’s!
Their recent newsletter, written with fancy word’s, add insult to injury, for all genuine Survivor’s, it is very apparent that while they say the Government should share out the 110 million , they clearly want the bulk of the Religious Contribution’s retained , in order to maintain and fund their fancy job’s and life style’s, and ensure a secure future for all Group’s, again, at the expence of ALL Survivor’s!
Mossie, the letter/report you intend sending to Mr McCallister, HSE, please also send copy’s to Jennifer Hough at the Examiner, and also to Bruce Arnold at the Independant, and as many other media you can think of.
These Group’s are running on empty, regarding membership, they claim to have, and clearly out to feather their own nest’s,and irrespective of who they walk on in their venture’s!
They are not answering question’s, they have a lot to hide, and i would not be surprised to learn that they are breaking many law’s, such as fraud and deception.
This new Government must wake up and listen to the view’s of ALL Genuine Survivor’s,and respect their request’s to investigate all these Group’s , and suspend all funding, until they are satisfied as to who are Genuine, and who are not.
I listened in yesterday to the pledge’s, promise’s etc, made from the new Taoiseach, Enda Kenny, and he said he was making a covenant to put matter’s right for all the Country and it’s people, so i fired of an email to remind him that we are part and parcel of that covenant, with a long sad history of Abuse and Suffering, and well overdue having our situation addressed, for once and for all, and also reminded him that he and Mr Gilmore promised us , before the election’s ,that they would be here for all Survivor’s,
TO DO JUSTICE FOR US ALL.
With the prospect of the Pope’s visit to Ireland next year, this new Government indeed have an opportunity to address all Irish Survivor’s throughout the world, and put the entire matter to bed, and in doing so, highlight the fact that they , the Religious, and State, are indeed sorry for the damage that so many Children of Holy Ireland suffered!
The majority of Survivor’s , living all over the world now, are in their elder year’s, and simply want redress, so they can live out the remainder of their live’s in some degree of comfort, They dont want Group’s that do not represent them, they want to manage their own live’s, and take care of their family’s. They dont want Group’s claiming funding, off the back’s of their suffering’s!
BOARD OF DIRECTORS Ha Ha Names Please.
All the survivers that have signed for paddy doyle to be our voice are alive. this we do know. How many hundreds on the other official groupsare aware of anything. Not many apparently. Otherwise there would have been a lot more people present at the church for the redemption fiasco.
Agree with you Mossie, our question’s will never be answered, but i am pleased that their are folk, professional and otherwise, who also view this fine Site of Paddy’s,just as ,no doubt, Mr Walsh does!
It is only a matter of time, when these same folk, will see that Survivor’s are simply asking valid question’s, but getting no answer’s, and in effect, will expose these Group’s for their sinister behaviour , and bring about their downfall.
GIVE THEM ENOUGH ROPE, spring’s to mind!
Keep Strong, Jimmy.
THE ONLY THING IS ROB. HE WONT ANSWER, BECAUSE HE KNOWS DAMNED WELL THAT I AM HITTING A NERVE. HE KNOWS MY QUESTIONS ARE VALID. THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN SURVIVORS START TO ASK QUESTIONS. THEY CLOSE RANKS, AND SIMPLY IGNORE THEM. THAT WAY THEY WILL GIVE NOTHING AWAY.
HE SAID IN A PREVIOUS ARTICLE, HE DID NOT NEED THE PERMISSION OF ( 1,750 ) MEMBERS HE CLAIMS HE HAS, TO SPEAK ON THEIR BEHALF. THE FACT IS, HE HAS NO MANDATE FROM ANY SURVIVOR, BECAUSE HE HAS NOT ASKED ANYONE IF HE CAN REPRESENT THEM, OR HE NEVER HELD A MEETING, TO ASK SURVIVORS FOR PERMISSION. HE OBVIOUSLY TOOK OVER THE ILLEGAL DATABASE FRON HIS PREVIOUS DICTATOR BARRY, WITH THE HELP FROM SOME SO CALLED BARRISTER, AND CONTINUED WHERE HE HAD LEFT OFF.
SO YOU CAN CLEARLY SEE, THAT NOTHING HAS CHANGED IN LOWER GLANMIRE ROAD, EXCEPT THE DICTATOR.
WE WILL ASK YOU AGAIN MR WALSH, TO TRUTHFULLY ANSWER THE QUESTIONS THAT ARE BEING PUT TO YOU. IGNORING THEM WILL ONLY ADD TO THE MYSTERY BEHIND YOUR ILLEGAL LEADERSHIP, AND WILL ONLY PROMPT MORE QUESTIONS. I WONDER WHERE YOU LEARNED THAT FROM???????????
PERSONALLY I KNOW YOU WONT ANSWER, BECAUSE YOU KNOW I AM TELLING THE TRUTH. I WAS A PAIN IN NOEL BARRYS SIDE, AND LIKEWISE, I WILL BE A THORN IN YOU’RS.
Thank You Mossie for addressing the Above with Such Clarity!
Your Questions are Clear; and a direct answer would put this matter to rest once and for all?
We don’t need Groups FULL STOP,SO FAR IN THE LAST 12 YEARS THOSE GROUPS HAVE BEEN TAKING ADVANTAGE OF SURVIVORS THEY RECIEVED MASSIVE FUNDING IN OUR NAME ,WHEN MOST LIVING SURVIVORS DON’T LIVE IN IRELAND AND MANY HAVE BEEN TO FRIGHTENED TO EVER RETURN.SO FAR THOSE GROUPS HAVE GIVING NOTHING BACK >i MEAN >NOTHING< WE WANT TO BE COMPANSATED AS INDIVIDUALS FULL STOP
To vote for Paddy to represent people who have been abused please use link below
http://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/mandate-for-paddy-doyle-to-represent-survivors/ …Kay
ROB,
ROP WILL NEVER SEND OUT LETTERS, OR PAPERS TO BALLOT ITS SO CALLED MEMBERS AND GIVE THEM A SAY AS TO WHAT THEY WANT. BECAUSE BY DOING SO, THEY WOULD BE ADMITTING THAT THEY DO INDEED HOLD THE SAME ( ILLEGAL ) DATABANK HELD BY HIS PREDECESSOR, MR NOEL BARRY, THIS IS THE REASON WHEN YOU ASK A PROBING QUESTION, YOU GET NO RESPONSE.
THEY HAVE NEVER HAD A MEETING OF THEIR SO CALLED MEMBERS. I WAS NEVER ASKED TO SIGN UP TO MEMBERSHIP OF ROP. SO HOW DID THEY GET MY DETAILS FOR THEIR ( ILLEGAL ) DATABANK??
FIRST THEY SAID THEIR MEMBERSHIP WAS ( 1,500 ) LATELY IT ROSE TO ( 1,750 ) MEMBERS. WHERE DID THEY GET THESE NAMES FROM??
NOBODY I KNOW HAS EVER BEEN ASKED TO ( OPT IN ) OR ( OPT OUT ) OF MEMBERSHIP. HOW ON EARTH CAN THEY CLAIM TO REPRESENT ALL OF THESE PEOPLE, WHEN THEY HAVE NEVER EVEN HELD A MEETING WITH THEM??
ALL OF THESE QUESTIONS NEED TO BE ASKED, AND MR WALSH SHOULD BE COMPELLED TO ANSWER THEM. MR NOEL BARRY DID EXACTLY THE SAME THING AS MR WALSH IS DOING NOW. NOTHING HAS CHANGED.
THERE WAS SO MUCH PRESSURE PUT ON MR BARRY, THE HSE HAD HIM STAND ASIDE, ILLEGAL ELECTIONS WERE HELD, AND MR WALSH CAME OUT OF NOWHERE, AND STOOD INTO MR BARRY’S SHOES.
HE THEN SAYS HE SPEAKS FOR 1,750 MEMBERS. WHERE DID HE GET THEM FROM?? NOEL BARRY. THE HSE NEEDS TO WAKE UP BIG TIME AND START ASKING QUESTIONS, AS TO ( WHO THEY ARE FUNDING ) AND WHERE IS ALL THIS FUNDING IS GOING.
HOW MANY STAFF DOES RIGHT OF PLACE CLAIM TO HAVE?? THE LAST I HEARD IT WAS 14, OR 15. WELCOME HOUSE IS NOW CLOSED, SO HOW CAN THEY HAVE 15 STAFF ON THE PAYROLL?? WHAT DO THEY DO IN THERE.
WE ALL HAVE A RIGHT TO KNOW. YOUR SO CALLED MEMBERSHIP, HAVE EVERY RIGHT TO KNOW JUST WHO SPEAKS ON THEIR BEHALF, ESPECIALLY IF THOSE PEOPLES NAMES, AND ADDRESSES, HAVE BEEN ADDED TO A DATABASE WITHOUT THE PRIOR CONSENT OF A SURVIVOR.
YOU CANNOT JUST TAKE OVER AS CHAIRPERSON OF AN ORGANIZATION MR WALSH, AND START TO NEGOTIATE FOR SURVIVORS WITHOUT FIRSTLY OBTAINING A MANDATE FROM THOSE PEOPLE TO DO SO.
AND FURTHERMORE, SAYING NOTHING, AND KEEPING QUIET ABOUT THESE ISSUES, WILL NOT GET YOU OUT OF THE LIMELIGHT. YOU ARE READING THIS SITE MR WALSH, WE DO KNOW THAT. NO MATTER WHAT PAGE YOU SKIP TO, YOU WILL FIND ME THERE ALSO. SO ANSWER THE QUESTIONS, SURVIVORS ARE ASKING YOU. IS THAT TOO MUCH TO ASK??
MR WALSH,
YOU HAVE JUST WRITTEN THAT, YOU SIGNED THE PETITION WITH THE FULL SUPPORT OF YOUR ( BOARD OF DIRECTORS ) THIS SIR, IS A BLATANT LIE. YOU DID NOT CATEGORICALLY HAVE THE SUPPORT OF THE FULL BOARD OF DIRECTORS, IN FACT, THE BOARD OF DIRECTORS WERE NEVER EVEN CONSULTED OF YOUR INTENTIONS. MORE LIES LIES LIES.
SINCE WHEN, MR WALSH DID RIGHT OF PLACE HAVE 1,750 MEMBERS?? LIES YET AGAIN, YOUR LAST STATEMENT STATED THAT YOU HAD 1,500.
WHEN DID YOU LAST HOLD A MEETING OF RIGHT OF PLACE MR WALSH, WITH THE NEW BOARD OF DIRECTORS, AND THE MEMBERS YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO REPRESENT?? NEVER. MORE LIES LIES LIES.
THE MEMBERSHIP SIR, HAS NEVER BEEN CANVASSED BY YOU, OR THE NEW BOARD OF DIRECTORS ON ( ANY ) ISSUES WHATSOEVER. SO HOW CAN YOU PURPORT TO REPRESENT ANY SURVIVOR ON YOUR CREDENTIALS MR WALSH?? PLEASE EXPLAIN. NO DOUBT YOU WILL DO LIKE YOU PREDECESSOR MR BARRY DID, AND IGNORE MY QUESTIONS.
LET ME PUT IT TO YOU MR WALSH. HAS THERE EVER BEEN A MEMBERSHIP MEETING HELD BY YOU, OR ONE ORGANISED BY YOU, OR YOUR NEW BOARD OF DIRECTORS, SINCE YOU JUST SO HAPPENED TO DRIFT INTO THE POSITION YOU NOW HOLD ILLEGALLY?? I THINK THE ANSWER TO THAT QUESTION IS YET ANOTHER BIG ( NO )
I PUT IT TO YOU ALSO MR WALSH, THAT ALL DECISIONS ABOUT SURVIVORS, FOR SURVIVORS, ARE BEING MADE BY ONE PERSON, AND ONE PERSON ONLY ( YOU MR WALSH )
WE ARE NOW UNFORTUNATLY CONFRONTED BY YET A GREATER DICTATOR THAN MR NOEL C BARRY, AND WE ARE WORSE OFF NOW THAN WE EVER WERE.
THE MEMBERSHIP OF RIGHT OF PLACE, HAS ONCE AGAIN, NEVER BEEN GIVEN A CHANCE TO REGISTER THEIR VIEWS. THEY ARE NOT BEING ASKED, AND WITH YOU LOT IN CHARGE, ( WONT BE ASKED ) FOR THEIR VIEWS TO BE CONSIDERED BY YOU, OR YOUR BOARD OF DIRECTORS.
ALL DECISIONS ARE BEING MADE BY ONE MAN, YET AGAIN, WITHOUT AUTHORITY, BECAUSE HE WILL NOT MEET WITH THE MEMBERSHIP TO DISCUSS WITH THE SURVIVORS AT A GENERAL MEETING. AT LEAST MR NOEL BARRY HAD THE DECENCY TO CALL THE MEETING, AT LEAST HE WENT THROUGH THE MOTIONS.
YOU MR WALSH, HAVE NEVER TAKEN ANY ACTION. YOU LEFT IT TO HONORABLE PEOPLE TO FIGHT THE BATTLE OF ACCOUNTABILITY, BEFORE YOU CRAWLED OUT OF THE WOODWORK TO STAB THOSE ( HONORABLE PEOPLE ) OF YOUR FIRST BOARD IN THE BACK.
PLEASE BORE US WITH THE DETAILS OF HOW YOU BETRAYED YOUR FELLOW BOARD MEMBERS BY STABBING THEM IN THE BACK, WHEN THEY ASKED FOR YOUR SUPPORT ON ISSUES OF ACCOUNTABILITY.
YOUR MEMBERSHIP NUMBERS ARE ABOUT AS TRUTHFUL AS YOUR ACCOUNT OF WHY ( 2 ) OF YOUR PREVIOUS BOARD MEMBERS RESIGNED. IS THERE NO LIMITS AS TO HOW LOW YOU WILL STOOP, AND LIE SIR TO ACHIEVE YOUR AIMS??
YOU SAY SOME DECISION WAS MADE WITHOUT YOUR AUTHORITY ON YOUR BEHALF?? WHAT AUTHORITY ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT, AND WHO MANDATED YOU TO HOLD SUCH AUTHORITY ON BEHALF OF ANY SURVIVOR?? ALSO YOU SAY YOU WERE INFURIATED, ALONG WITH OTHERS, YOU SHOULD NOT HAVE BEEN, AS IT IS NOT YOUR BUSINESS TO BE. WE ARE ALL EARS.
PLEASE TELL US ALL, MR WALSH, WHAT ACTION DID YOU TAKE?? WE ARE ALL DYING TO HEAR ALL ABOUT WHAT YOU DID?? DONT WORRY ABOUT BORING US ALL, WE REALLY WANT TO KNOW WHAT ACTION YOU SUPPOSIDLY TOOK??
YOU NOW SAY, AND I WILL QUOTE YOUR VERY WORDS ON THIS ONE MR WALSH, “ BUT SUFFICE TO SAY, WE ARE NOW A NEW GROUP, WITH A NEW MODEL OF SERVICE TO SURVIVORS, AND A DESIRE TO OBTAIN THE BEST THERE IS ON BEHALF OF SURVIVORS – AND ONLY ( WHEN WE HAVE A MANDATE TO DO SO. )
CORRECT ME SIR IF I MISINTERPRETED YOUR LAST STATEMENT, BECAUSE THEY ARE YOUR VERY OWN WORDS. WHAT YOU HAVE ACTUALLY STATED IS, YOU DO NOT HAVE A MANDATE AT THIS TIME, WHICH I TOTALLY AGREE WITH. BECAUSE MR WALSH, YOU MOST CERTAINLY ( DO NOT ) HAVE A MANDATE, AS NO ONE HAS GIVEN YOU ONE.
I DONT KNOW WHERE YOU GOT THE IMPRESSION, THAT YOU DID NOT NEED THE ( SUPPOSIDLY ) 1,750 MEMBERS YOU HAVE ON YOUR ILLEGALLY HELD DATABASE TO SIGN . YOU NEVER CANVASSED THIS ISSUE AT ANY MEETING.
YOU SAY ALSO, THAT THEY, THE MEMBERS INDICATED THAT THEY ARE AGAINST THIS TRUST FUND IN PRINCIPLE, THEREFORE YOU HAVE THE MAJORITY OF YOUR MEMBERS, DEMAND THAT THIS TRUST FUND BE REJECTED IN ITS PRESENT FORM, SO IN FACT YOU HAVE AN ADDITIONAL
( 1, 750 ) VOTES WITH YOUR SIGNATURE. YOU HAVE NO AUTHORITH WHATSOEVER TO MAKE A COMMENT, OR STATEMENT LIKE THAT.
YOU SIR, ARE LIVING ON CLOUD CUCKOO LAND, AND ITS HIGH TIME YOU LANDED, AND FACED REALITY. YOU HAVE NO MANDATE FROM SURVIVORS, END OF STORY.
COULD YOU TELL ME, BUT MORE SO, TELL ALL THE SURVIVORS, WHERE YOU GOT ALL THE NAMES, AND ADDRESSES OF ALL SURVIVORS YOU SAY YOU SPEAK ON BEHALF OF MR WALSH. BECAUSE IF YOU OBTAINED THAT DATABASE FROM YOUR DISGRACED PREDECESSOR, YOU ARE GUILTY OF AN OFFENCE.
ALSO, HOW WERE THOSE NAMES OBTAINED BY YOU, AND YOUR BOARD OF DIRECTORS, BECAUSE I THINK ALL SURVIVORS HAVE A RIGHT TO KNOW IF THEIR DETAILS WERE OBTAINED WITHOUT THEIR KNOWLEDGE, OR PERMISSION,
I FOUND OUT THAT MY DETAILS WERE HELD ON MR BARRY’S DATABASE, AND MAY I SAY, WITHOUT MY KNOWLEDGE, I SINCE HAD THEM REMOVED. IF MY PERSONAL DETAILS WERE ON THAT DATABASE, HOW MANY MORE SURVIVORS CREDENTIALS DO YOU HAVE, ( ILLEGALLY? )
NO DOUBT, IF THIS IS SO THE CASE SIR, YOU ARE OBTAINING FUNDING BY DECEPTION FROM THE HSE, ON BEHALF OF SURVIVORS, WITHOUT THEIR PERMISSION
DO YOU, MR WALSH, OR ANY OF YOUR BOARD OF DIRECTORS, HOLD ANY QUALIFICATIONS WHICH ARE REQUIRED TO DEAL WITH SURVIVORS AND THEIR PROBLEMS? HOW CAN YOU STATE YOU CAN HELP THEM? IN WHAT WAY CAN YOU DO THIS? WE ARE ALL ANXIOUSLY AWAITING YOUR ANSWER.
Mosse, check out “SHAME OF IRELAND ” THEIR ARE MANY WHO SHARE YOUR VIEW;S .
PAULINE, RIGHT OF PLACE WILL NEVER AGREE TO THAT. THEY WILL CLAIM DISCRETION AND CONFIDENTIALITY OF THEIR MEMBERS PERSONAL DETAILS. IN OTHER WORDS, THEY SIMPLY WONT TELL YOU. THIS IS HOW THEY GET OUT OF EVERYTHING. MR BARRY DID EXACTLY THE SAME THING. THE HSE NEEDS TO PROBE, AND INVESTIGATE THIS BEFORE THERE IS ANY ACCOUNTABILITY. UNTIL THEN, WE ARE BANGING OUR HEADS AGAINST A BRICK WALL.
CAN MR WALSH BE BELIEVED?? VERY DOUBTFUL. LOOK AT THE WAY HE TOLD EVERYONE ON THE EXAMINER NEWSPAPER RECENTLY HOW 2 OF HIS BOARD OF DIRECTORS HAD RESIGNED. THEY RESIGNED FOR PERSONAL REASONS HE STATED. ONE MAN IN QUESTION OF HIS BOARD TOLD US, THIS IS NOT WHY HE RESIGNED, PROVING ME WALSH TO BE NOTHING BUT A LIAR.
SO WHY SHOULD ANYONE TRUST HIM, OR BELIEVE ANYTHING THAT COMES OUT OF HIS MOUTH. MY OPINION, HE IS ANOTHER DICTATOR, LIKE THE LAST ONE MR NOEL C BARRY, AND NOTHING MORE, AND IS IN THERE FOR WHAT HE CAN GET OUT OF IT, NOTHING MORE.
I THINK KAY, YOU HIT THE NAIL ON THE HEAD THERE. WELL SPOKEN.
THAT IS A VERY VALID POINT JIMMY. WE DONT KNOW WHAT NAMES THIS PERSON HAS ON THIS SO CALLED DATABASE HE ALLEGES HE HAS. WITH ALL THE MYTH SURROUNDING THIS TOPIC, I CANNOT FOR THE LIFE OF ME UNDERSTAND WHY THE HSE STILL CONTINUES TO FUND THIS SO CALLED GROUP, RIGHT OF PLACE SECOND CHANCE, AND ALL RELATED TO IT.
MY RECENT REQUEST FOR ANSWER’S ,ADDRESSED TO MR MICHAEL WALSH, WERE ,AS EXPECTED, IGNORED.
THIS , FOR ME , SUPPORT’S MUCH OF THE COMMENT’S OF MOSSE’S ABOVE, REGARDING THE ATTITUDE AND RESPONCE FROM ROP.
LIKE MYSELF , THERE ARE MANY SURVIVOR’S HERE AND ON SHAME OF IRELAND, THAT FOR YEAR’S HAVE BEEN ASKING QUESTION’S ABOUT ROP, IT’S SHADY BOARD, IT’S SHADY CHAIRPERSON, AND IT’S FUNDING, BUT ALL IGNORED. I AM PLEASED ALSO TO NOTE THAT I AM NOT THE ONLY PERSON WHO SUSPECT’S THAT THE MICHAEL WALSH ,WHO CLAIM’S RANK OF CHAIRMAN,ROP, AND THE MICHAEL WALSH, WHO CLAIM’S TO BE A DEPENDENT, ARE ONE AND THE SAME PERSON? COULD THIS BE A CASE OF BI-POLAR?
JIMMY
Micheál
BIG DEAL FOR MR WALSH TO SIGN THE PETITION, ON BEHALF OF THE NEW BOARD. HOW DO YOU KNOW THE WHOLE BOARD WERE ASKED FOR THEIR OPINION, ALSO WHAT MEMBERS HAVE GIVEN HIM PERMISSION TO DO IT ON THEIR BEHALF? MR WALSH SIR ( DOES NOT HAVE A MANDATE )
YOU SEEM TO KNOW QUITE A LOT ABOUT MR WALSH SIR, WHAT ( INCORRECT INFORMATION ) AS YOU SO PUT IT HAS BEEN LEFT ON THIS SITE ABOUT HIM.
DID YOU FOLLOW ( THE SO CALLED ELECTIONS ) THIS MOB HELD DURING THE YEAR? I DOUBT IT, BECAUSE IF YOU DID, YOU WOULD NOT BE SINGING HIS PRAISES EVERY TIME YOU COMMENT ON THIS SITE, AND FOR YOUR INFORMATION, MR WALSH ( WAS NOT DEMOCRATICALLY ELECTED ) I STILL WONDER IF I, INDEED AM RESPONDING TO THE SAME ( MR WALSH? )
WHO ARE YOU SIR, TO QUESTION ANY SURVIVOR? AS I BELIEVE YOU TOLD ME AT ONE POINT THAT YOU ARE A DEPENDENT OF ONE. YOU SEEM TO BE PRAISING MR WALSH EVERY CHANCE YOU GET. DO YOU KNOW HIM PERSONALLY?? MOST PROBABLY YOU DO. AND MAYBE THEN AGAIN ( YOU ARE ) MR WALSH, PRAISING YOUR SELF FOR ALL YOU ARE DOING FOR SURVIVORS???
MR WALSH SIR, IS A CARBON COPY OF THE LAST DICTATOR, ( MR NOEL C BARRY ) AND THE NEW ( UNDEMOCRATICALLY ELECTED CHAIRMAN ) IS JUST A CONTINUATIONAN OF MR BARRY. THAT YOU CAN BE ASSURED OF.
WHAT ON EARTH DO YOU MEAN WHEN YOU SAY, WE HAVE ALREADY SEEN AND HEARD TRANSPARITY, THAT, ( THEY ) ARE OPENING SEVERAL NEW OFFICES IN LOCATIONS ACROSS IRELAND?? IT MOST CERTAINLY, DOES ( NOT ) LEAD TO GREATER TRANSPARANCY AND INFORMATION.
THE LAST THING SURVIVORS WANT AT THIS TIME IS MORE OFFICES THAT ARE RUN AND CONTROLLED BY DICTATORSHIP, AND ESPECIALLY ( RIGHT OF PLACE ) IN CASE YOU ARE NOT ALREADY AWARE, THERE ARE OFFICES IN THOSE NAMED PLACES, AND DO NOT WANT ANY MORE.
CAN YOU TELL ME SIR, WHAT HAS MR WALSH DONE SO FAR TO STOP THIS TRUST FUND FROM BEING IMPLEMENTED?? NOTHING I BET. ANYONE CAN SIGN A PETITION, THATS NO BIG DEAL, THAT DOES NOT SAY HE IS AN HONORABLE PERSON, HE CAN STILL HAVE HIS OWN REASONS FOR WANTING TO CONTROL THE WHOLE SHOW??
I WOULD NOT BE ONE BIT SURPRISED TO HEAR THAT MR BARRY, AND HIS COUNTERPARTS ARE STILL PULLING THE STRINGS BEHIND THE SCENES OF ( RIGHT OF PLACE ) IN FACT I AM ALMOSE CERTAIN OF IT, AND ITS ( MY OPINION ) THAT MR WALSH WAS INSERTED INTO THE POSITION HE HOLDS AS NEW CHAIRMAN OF THE NEW BOARD OF DIRECTORS, TO TAKE THE PRESSURE OFF MR NOEL C BARRY, AND THE HSE. AND I DONT CARE WHAT YOUR OPINIONS ARE ON THAT. WE ARE NOT STUPID OR BLIND. WE WERE BLIND FOR LONG ENOUGH.
WHY ARE THERE SOME OF THE OLD REGIME STILL RUNNING THE SHOW IN THE RIGHT OF PLACE OFFICES IN THE LOWER GLANMIRE ROAD. YOU DID SAY, DID YOU NOT, THAT MR WALSH HELPED TO REMOVE MR NOEL C BARRY AND HIS CRONIES, IN YOUR PREVIOUS ENTRY TO THIS SITE?
I CAN ALSO ASSURE YOU SIR, SURVIVORS HAVE NOTHING TO REJOICE ABOUT WITH THIS PERSON RUNNING THE SHOW AT PRESENT, AS HE IS TARNISHED WITH THE SAME BRUSH AS HE PREDECESSOR MR NOEL C BARRY WAS. HE DID NOT TAKE OVER A BADLY RUN, AND BADLY ORGANIZED SURVIVOR GROUP AND HELPED TO CHANGE IT, BECAUSE THE ONLY THING SIR THAT HAS CHANGED IN RIGHT OF PLACE, IS THE ( DICTATOR ) AND I AM CERTAIN THAT A LOT OF SURVIVORS CAN NOW ACTUALLY SEE WHAT IS GOING ON HERE, AND IF I CAN IN ANY WAY HIGHTLIGHT THIS TO THE SURVIVORS, I WILL, AND WILL NOT BE SORRY FOR DOING SO.
YOU SIR, ARE OBVIOUSLY VERY BLIND IF AS YOU SAY, YOU NEVER REMEMBER SEEING ONE OF US CHALLENGE THE PREVIOUS REGIME. WE HAVE BEEN DOING EXACTLY THAT FOR THE PAST COUPLE OF YEARS NOW, AND THAT IS WHY WE HAVE MANAGED TO REMOVE THE LAST DICTATOR, AND MOST OF HIS CREW FROM THE POSITIONS THEY ONCE HELD. HOWEVER, WE ARE NOT FINISHED YET, AS WE ARE NOW BURDENED WITH YET ANOTHER, IF NOT WORSE DICTATOR THAN THE PREVIOUS ONE.
WE ARE NOT GOING TO SIT BACK, AS YOU SO PUT IT, AND ASK FOR CHANGE, WE ARE MAKING CHANGES, AND WILL CONTINUE TO DO SO, ON THAT YOU MAY BE WELL ASSURED.
AND TO FINISH, I AM CERTAIN THAT NO SURVIVOR WILL ACCHIEVE WHAT IS RIGHTFULLY THEIRS UNDER THE REGIME THAT IS SUPPOSIDLY RUNNING THE GROUP CALLED ( RIGHT OF PLACE ) AND YES OUR VOICES WILL BE HEARD, WHEN WE REMOVE ALL THESE PARASITES THAT, BY FORCE, TRY TO GOVERN BY THEIR MEANS, FOR THEIR OWN GRATIFICATION.
I would like to ask all survivors if you would please not leave The Regina Ceoli Mother and Baby Unit out of the equation whenever you happen to mention Magdalene Laundries and Bethany House, or other such like institutions, in relation to seeking justice.
I’ve been to the forefront all these years and not a single survivor has ever acknowledged the existence of the mother and baby unit.
I do really fail to understand why this is the situation, but sadly, it is the case.
It kind of crosses my mind every now and then, that, if survivors were really genuine, when they say that they are concerned about ‘all’ survivors, that they would not become exclusive whenever it suits them to be in situations of the aforementioned.
I have highlighted Magdalen Laundries and Bethany House for years on RateYourSolicitors. com
http://www.rate-your-solicitor.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=3&action=new
http://www.rate-your-solicitor.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=19&action=new
And elsewhere.
It’s a site of which I have hung out for years and have hits to the tune of over 176,706 AND 48, 110, respectively.
I have over these long years commented incessantly at too innumerable sites to mention all over the globe about institutional child abuse.
So survivors like me who have been incessantly crying out against the harsh winds should not be treated like strangers amongst those who were in industrial school institutions.
Last year I was at a survivor meeting in Dublin.
It was basically said to some attendees there, who wanted to speak at the podium, that it was not about ‘individual’ cases.
This, I should add, was at the tail end of the meeting.
I was gobsmacked as I listened on quietly.
I was inwardly fuming!
So utterly deflated!
How dare he, even think like that, I thought bubbling underneath!
Not only that, but they were not even given any media attention, as the cameras were turned off immediately after the high profile survivors had spoken.
The falsity and hypocrisy and the power struggle that goes on behind closed survivor doors is just mesmerizingly appalling.
Nevertheless, I bit my lip, maintained decorum and rationally approached a survivor leader, asking to be acknowledged into the future.
To me, it was so unreal in the first instance having to ask for help, because of having being outside the Dail for so long and banging my head against the granite wall.
Anyway, I was given every assurance and a handshake by the survivor in charge of the meeting and was told that I would be given help.
Soon after that, the very same survivor, who went to see the archbishop in Armagh, was talking to the media about the Magdalen Laundries.
There was not a mention of the mother and baby home.
I was absolutely livid.
Negative feelings poured out of me.
I thought – here was I, depending on someone who was only a few short years in the system.
You see – it was always assumed that the ones who were mostly to the forefront fighting the government on our behalf, were mostly those survivors who had spent only very short times in the institutions.
They had families, you see, and were street-wise as children in comparison to those who had been basically born into the system.
They were classed as having more wherewithal.
There was much ambivalence with child perambulator (lifers) survivors who went into the system.
We felt that we were the ones who were pushed into the background when it came to crucial dealings with the government.
The incident at the meeting confirmed to me, that we ‘individual’ survivors are inconsequential.
One has to approach bishops and the government oneself and not have to depend on prominent survivors who speak out of the side of their mouths.
There are oodles of survivors who have not got the skills to express themselves and they are being told to quietly or metaphorically STFU by some survivor leaders.
Some leaders have been closely working in cahoots with the last government and the latter has paid them handsomely to keep the likes of us quiet.
The government never wanted the apple-cart to be tumbled over and all the rotten apples to come pouring out.
It just could not handle it.
It looked to the groups to suppress us and keep the lid down.
The Pandora’s box must never be fully opened.
The Fine Gael government, the Labour Party, and Sinn Fein were absolutely disgusted at the way the last government treated me outside the Dail.
I have verbal evidence of this to back me up.
They were also well aware that most of the survivor groups who kept their distance from me, were mostly doing so, because they were mostly only eating the crumbs themselves off the Fianna Fail and coalition table.
The survivor groups depended on the government for survival and couldn’t be seen to be at odds with it – in supporting my campaign.
Utilitarianism Ruled!
They went against the grain.
Here is an example of Bethany House and The Regina Ceoli fighting for justice.
08/12/2005 – 16:14:53
Two victims of child abuse must have their cases addressed by the Residential Institutions Redress Board, it was claimed today.
Marie Therese O’Loughlin and Derek Linster have been refused a hearing by the board on the grounds that the state was not responsible for the institutions they lived in.
But the Labour Party said the Government had to extend the remit of the board before the three-year deadline for applications expired next week.
Read more:
http://www.breakingnews.ie/archives/2005/1208/ireland/cwmheykfmhey/#ixzz1ER74HgVE
Micheal, you have this all wrong, the comments left here on Paddy’s site, on the numerous threads (would take forever to read all) and those left on the Shame of Ireland, are left with a free will
A large number of Survivor’s names on Right of Place membership, are not there of free will, most Survivor’s were conned into this (in the early days) just by attending meeting’s advertised in newspapers, regarding “Redress” names and address’s were then collected by asking all to sign an entry book, supposedly because of fire regulation, no mention of membership,
Has anyone ever filled in a ROP membership form? If so how many?
I believe this is very important don’t you?
How can an audit be done without proof of this?
How do they get charitable status without this?
How on earth did they ever get Government funding without this?
Micheal, if as you say you are only able to echo ROP, then will you ask the board members to respond? Surely they can speak for themselves…Kay
Well said Billy. Everyone take note
MICHAEL WALSH OF ROP SHOULD HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH SURVIVERS OR THE STATURTY FUND AS FAR AS I CAN SEE HE IS A BIGGER DICATOR THAN N BARRY, NO ANSWERS TO THE QUESTIONS ASK JUST A LOAD OF VERBAL
GIBBERISH AND LIES, HE SAID THAT 2 DIRECTORS RESIGNED ,A STATMENT IN THE CORK EXAMINER BY MR TOM BRENNAN (A FORMER DIRECTOR) SAID HE RESIGNED BECAUSE HE GOT NO HELP OR COOPORATION FROM WALSH
OR ANYONE ELSE IN ROP.
WHEN WAS THERE A MEETING CALLED BY HIM NEVER!!!!
COULD HE TELL ME HOW MANY MEMBERS OF ROP WITHDREW
THEIR NAMES AND DATA FROM ROP,HOW MANY DO THEY HAVE ON THEIR BOOKS.THE ONLY WAY WE WILL GET RID OF ROP IS EVERYONE SHOULD DEMAND THEIR NAMES AND DATA BE REMOVED AND GET CONFIRMATION IN WRITING.
MAY GOD FORGIVE THE LOT OF THEM FOR THE HURT AND SORROW AND HEARTBREAK THEY CAUSED SURVIVERS,FOR THEIR OWN SELF GREED
thanks d m w for your words. i felt a bit upset about being told that i have a negatif effect on the cause of survivers .But you know one one hand we were told that Sally does not believe in his plans but that never the less we should trust him with large sums of money.Ijust dont see the sense of it. Numbers and files thats what we have been to these groups for 10 years now .
Whether or not Labour is the Ruling Party after the Election; they have made a commitment!
We need to contact their TDs and let them know of their Commitment?
Hi,
To Dead man walking, your last comment is the very reason I try to give comments or opinions. It is heart breaking to hear any person say something like that and yet I no from many survivors I have met, you are not alone in feeling like this.
I can only say that the future WILL be brighter for you, with enough support and pressure this trust fund can be abolished. Only when survivors get adequately compensated, can some form of closure be breathed into many survivors lives. I for one will do anything I can to ensure this does happen.
To Kay, I understand your point, regarding the 377 comments, but you would have to agree many of those comments are repeat commenter’s and thus the figure of 377 does not accurately reflect the true number of actual people commenting.
All I want to ensure is that each and every Survivor this time has a say in what the change from the Trust Fund is. If (even 377) on this website decide what the future changes will be, does that not make US worse then the “leaders” of these groups as we would not have a mandate for ALL survivors. Remember even if 377 have commented, this is only circa 2.5% of survivors.
However I do echo your statements, I do not run Right of Place, and as such I can only agree with you to say that it would be very good to see each and every member sign the petition individually.
To Rob – as far as I had heard from speaking to members of ROP who are at the meetings to elect the new board, the idea of a Trust Fund came up. As far as I was told 100% rejected it in its current form. I can only guess then that since this New board was elected they are speaking on behalf of who elected them? Of course the idea of WHAT survivors want instead of the trust fund, would have to be negotiated before Mr.Walsh could claim his voice is the voice of 1750.
My take on it is this, the current Trust Fund was agreed and set up wrongfully by the leaders of these groups. Perhaps the easiest way to eliminate and get rid of trust fund is by using these very groups to tell them, the Trust Fund in its current form is NOT WANTED.
Surely the HSE/ Government read the papers and these websites, have realized that Right Of Place wanted to get rid of Noel Barry et al and now when a NEW board take over, they immediately reject the trust fund, that this rejection has to be a mandate from the survivors they represent?
Also Rob I commend both you and Paddy, for these websites, they are highly informative and give people an un prohibited forum to voice their opinions, this can only be good. I can only commend you for the work and effort that you put into your website, despite the obvious pressure that exist around you.
transparency ,honesty , consultation is what we survivors / victims need .agree with rob northalls suggestions .second in thanking albert . agree with pauline . take your points on board micheal . lets hope labour get in .i wont be holding my breath waiting for them to act in our interests but live in hope .we survivors/victims have been treated badly as children and with contempt as adults . i hope all those who contributed to our extra suffering realise were not fools and the system never took our brains .my name says how i feel daily .i just exsist i dont live
Hi Micheal
If the Right of Place are truly against the Trust Fund and want justice for Survivors, then you might suggest, that ALL members sign Paddy’s petition (above) with initials R.O.P next to their name for all to see. The board members of ROP will surely help the less able members to do this, they could even organise a paper petition with exact wording as the above, for those with no computer access,
This highly questionable membership of 1,750
could then be verified, until then it will remain unbelievable
What do they have to lose if what they say is genuine?
Miceal you say there are only 40-50 comments on here and rest of site, regarding this issue, take a look on thread below where you will find 377 comments and many more on other threads
http://www.paddydoyle.com/a-consultation-proposal-statutory-fund-2/
Thanks Paddy for creating this petition, Best Regards Kay
Michael,
I am but one man and I am emailing every Member of the Shame of Ireland and engaging with them about their Involvement and Asking if they still want to be Members?
Your Statement:-
“I do not see any more then 40 or 50 ACTIVE comments on this and your websites, so it is important not to forget the other 14,950 and their family’s”
Is on very thin ice!!
How many Board Members does Right of Place have?
They are making decisions for 1750 Members?
How Many Members Have been asked to opt in, or Continue their Membership?
The only Administrator of the Shame of Ireland is me; I do not normally burden others with my own situation; but my wife has just come out of a Suicidal bout, My Mothers Lung Cancer has Returned, and my Father is Registered Blind! I am sure that I have normal Day to Day Pressures, Commitments and Financial Concerns.
Yet I still find the time to Care whether the Members of the Shame of Ireland still want to be involved?
When will Right of Place Audit their Membership?
Shame of Ireland as you have seen is Democractic! It is Open to any Survivor, Family Member or Friend of a Survivor!
If you are eligable and Knock! You will be let in!
Group Leader or Individual! but once inside we are ALL Individuals, and we respect each other in a Friendly Unmoderated Atmosphere!
Hello michael ‘ Well being told that my comments are distructif to the cause of survivers is not very easy .Ihave asked you why you think that we need these people. dont forget that many of us are on the outside of the framework. Survivers abroad are still survivers of industriel schools. Why are groups of people whom most of us dont know saying thay have rights to our names and our addresses our dates of birth all of which makes us a file number. thay take no part in our lives yet thay wont let us know anything. by refusing to publish the names on thier files. it would be a good way to start change.
Thank you Albert for this information, and for your hard work on Survivor’s behalf, Much appreciated.
Just wish the other silent leader’s of other various group’s took a leaf out of your book, and took on the Government in a UNITED front, and SHOW THEIR METAL ,REGARDING THE ISSUE’S OF CONCERN TO SURVIVOR’S.
JIMMY
Rob, I support the move for pensions for victims of state financed clerical atrocities. It is ONE of several forms of aid that could be activated without delay. It affords security on an ongoing basis and would be of huge comfort for many. This does not exclude other forms of aid. Regarding the Educational fund it should allso be dispersed and the monies shared to all. We want to be free fom this burden of having to toe the line when requesting assistence. We want to live out our lives and realise one or two dreams.
Hi,
To Rob, you are indeed correct in stating it is vitally important that a clear and realistic option be put forward as an alternative to the Trust Fund. You are 100% correct that without this, the change that we ALL wish and want to happen is a lot harder.
It is very hard to change something without a viable alternative. An excellent discussion to start and one that needs ALL survivors inputs. Let’s make sure that we do not make the mistakes of the past in deciding something that does not have the full backing of the majority. Remember I do not see any more then 40 or 50 ACTIVE comments on this and your websites, so it is important not to forget the other 14,950 and their family’s.
To Pauline and Dead Man Walking. I would NEVER ask somebody to “shut yer mouths”. To employ that I have is nothing short of disrespectful. Each and every person, be they survivor, family relatives or friends have their own opinion and their own voice, that no matter how insignificant others may make them feel there comment is, its NOT.
I am for transparency and certainly after the way Survivors were treated for 30 years being kept quiet by the religious and the state I have no interest whatsoever in doing the same. (nor do I hold any authority whatsoever to)
I have agreed on numerous occasions that the previous regime of ROP failed on so many levels and indeed have left a cloud hanging over any potential person who tries to change the system that was in existence. However I have read on this and numerous websites that these leaders of the groups should come out and support the petition against the trust fund.
The very fact that only ONE of the major Survivor groups came out to support this petition, that this should have been applauded, considering it is a NEW board (and not one that has been there for 10 years), even for that one moment, despite the reservations you (or I, for that matter) may have against the New Board of Right of Place. That is where my stance lay on this.
I will again re-iterate, that I would NEVER try to keep somebody quiet, never try to belittle people by dis-regarding their comments or have the kneck to tell people how they should think.
Discussion is all about difference of opinion, making points that you feel lean towards your way of thinking, and listening to other peoples comments that lean to their way of thinking. The outcome of a discussion (which all these comments are) is to come out the other end with a better understanding of each others position and an agreement on where we as Survivors,Dependents and Family’s think the next stage should be.
yet again shut yere mouths and dont complain !!! we all have a voice and freedom of speech ! give r o p a chance ???? theyve had ten years milking the system to benifit the few ! they should be disbanded full stop .all groups !
Thank you Marie,
Eloquently put! We all need to remember this when we think about what is right for us and for others.
Michael,
You have firm grasp of the wrongs of the past and we need to draw a line under the Right of Place as Was!
Whether the NEW Right of Place is fit for Purpose remains to be seen??
What I believe we need to be Focusing on is What we want instead of the Statutory Fund?
I have picked this up from a Petition that has 372 Signatures on it!
I think this is a good Stating point for debate!
You cannot say NO! and then not offer an alternative??
The Petition @ http://bit.ly/aghTMc
Clearly States:-
We also Ask of you the following:
1) A Irish Liaison Officer who was raised in the Homes to be Employed specifically to help and Aid any Irish Survivor in whatever manner they need.
2)All Monies Donated by the Religious Congregations,and Intended for Survivors to be disbursed Immediately and without further delay.
.
3)
Each Survivor, and their Children,who do not use their (Educational Allowance Grant) shall receive the equivalent payable directly to Survivors, enabling them to use this how they see fit.
4)The Same Medical Care Afforded to the Survivors as is to the Religious Orders—(as you are aware, Survivors suffer from the most Severe and Chronic Mental Health/Physical Health Conditions as a result of Severe Child Abuse.
5)Possibly a Pension paid Monthly/Weekly to all Survivors which has no Bearing on other Benefits they may receive.
6)All Funeral Costs of Survivors to be covered by The Irish Government/Religious Order of which Home/Institution they were raised/Abused in.
This is not my Petition and I have no vested interest in these Opinions!
The idea of a Life long Pension starting from “Today” for all Residents of the Institutions; That is Tax Free and does not affect State/Housing/Council Tax Benefits through out the Free World!
This sounds like something that would be Welcomed by ALL?
We need to focus on what we want instead! If the Government turn to us and say OK! What do you Want? Will we have an Answer?
Not if we focus on everything else But!
Have a think??
Lets hear your Views??
Thanks Michael for your remarks. if Michael was or was not part of the group right of this or that .Iwould not know. You see i get All my information on this site and on robs site.if i am wrong about the fact that Michael Walsh has been active in our cause for the past 10 years then i am sorry . but if we missunderstand information its not our fault.People who claim to speak on our behalf do not inform us at all.You say its distructive for all survivers to complain. Why??????.WHY DO YOU THINK THAT THAY ARE IMPORTANT FOR US.WE NEVER HEAR ANYTHING AT ALL FROM THEM
“Shame on Ireland” asks the question:
“What are the 30 human rights?”
Here goes:
1. We are all free and equal
We are all born free.
We all have our own thoughts and ideas.
We should all be treated in the same way.
2. Don’t discriminate
These rights belong to everybody, whatever our differences.
3. The right to life
We all have the right to life, and to live in freedom and safety.
4. Slavery – past and present
Nobody has the right to make us a slave.
We cannot make anyone our slave.
5. Torture
Nobody has any right to hurt us or torture us
6. We all have the same right to use the law
I am a person just like you
7. We are all protected by the law
The law is the same for everyone. It must treat us fairly
8. Fair treatment by fair courts
We can all ask for the law to help us when we are not treated fairly
9. Unfair detainment
Nobody has the right to put us in prison without a good reason and keep us there, or to send us away from our country.
10. The right to trial
If we are put on trial this should be in public.
The people who trial us should not let anyone tell them what to do.
11. Innocent until proven guilty
Nobody should be blamed for doing something until it is proven.
When people say we did a bad thing, we have the right to show it is not true.
12. The right to privacy
Nobody should try to harm our good name.
Nobody has the right to come into our home, open our letters, bother us or our family without good reason.
13. Freedom to move
We all have the right to go where we want to in our own country and to travel as we wish.
14. The right to asylum
If we are frightened of being badly treated in our own country, we all have the right to run away to another country to be safe.
15. The right to a nationality
We all have the right to belong to a country.
16. Marriage and Family.
Every grown-up has the right to marry and have a family if they want to.
Men and women have the same rights when they are married and, when they are separated.
17. Your own things.
Everyone has the right to own things or share them.
Nobody should take our things from us without good reason.
18. Freedom of thought.
We all have the right to believe in what we want to believe, to have a religion, and to change it if we want
19. Free to say what you want.
We all have the right to make up our minds, to think what we like, to say what we think, and to share our ideas with other people
20. Meet where you want.
We all have the right to meet our friends and work together in peace to defend our rights.
Nobody can make us join a group if we don’t want to.
21. The right to democracy.
We all have the right to take part in the government of our country.
Every grown-up should be able to choose their own leaders.
22. The right to social security.
We all have the right to affordable housing, medicine, education, child care, enough money to live on and medical help if we are ill or old.
23. Workers Rights.
Every grown-up has the right to do a job, for a fair wage for there work, and to join a trade union.
24. The Right to play.
We all have the right to rest from work and to relax.
25. A bed and some food
We all have the right to a good life.
Mothers and children, people who are old, disabled, all have the right to be cared for.
26. The right to an education.
Education is a right. Primary school should be free.
We should learn about the United Nations and how to get on with others.
Our parents can choose what we learn.
27. Culture and copyright.
Copyright is a special law that protects one’s creations and writing:
Others cannot make copies without permission.
We all have the right to our own way of life and to enjoy the good things that “art” science and learning bring.
28. A free and fair world.
There must be proper order so we can all enjoy rights and freedoms in our own country and all over the world.
29. Every person has duties to the democratic society according to the law.
We have a duty to other people and we should protect their rights and freedoms.
30. Nobody can take away these rights and freedoms from us.
Idont see much of surviver attacking survivers. what i see are people complaining about the fact that its the taxepayers who are paying so that the government can say thay are doing the best thay can for all of us. this is not true . to many of us wouldnt even know the names of the groups without this site. why should we not complain.????. the women in the womens would do better to make up thier own mindes.We deserve independence.
Paddy
I gave the wrong date for the Irish Women Survivors Support Network meeting . Its on
SATURDAY FEB 26th (not 25th) at Arlington House Arlington Rd 12noon-3pm
Please could I let people know through the site as I have mentioned it three or four times in my postings.
thanks
Sally Mulready
Hi,
It is good to see Mr.Michael Walsh sign the petition on behalf of the new Board and indeed their members.
I am still however surprised to see the arguments, the negative comments and incorrect information left on this website.
To Sally Mulready – your comments seem to be of the most rational I have seen on these comment boards.
Some of the other comments, such as Pauline, whilst you are more then entitled to your opinion and I have no RIGHT whatsoever to even begin to tell you how to think I would make a quick point.
The final comment that you have left there is DAMAGING for ALL survivors. You mention that Mr.Walsh cause so much harm to all survivors and he has already had his chance?
This is a factually incorrect statement. Mr.Walsh is the NEW chairman of Right of Place. To the best of my knowledge he has never held a position of authority with Right of Place and therefore has never had the opportunity to ensure Survivors Groups are run properly.
Already we have seen/heard that they are opening new offices in several locations across Ireland (this leads to greater transparency and access to information etc) for all members.
He has signed the Petition AGAINST what the previous board helped to set up. I am sure if he was in it for himself he could of sat in the background (like all the other leaders of these “Survivor” Groups) and said nothing.
They have helped to remove Mr. Noel Barry and his cronies.
Would it not make sense for survivors to rejoice, even for this one occasion for a man and a board who has taken a badly run, badly organized and not fit for purpose Survivor Group and helped to change something that has been in existence for nearly 10 years?
I have seen plenty of comments left on this site, but I don’t remember hearing of ONE of you challenge the previous regime and try to change the very system you were unhappy about.
It is far to easy to sit back and ask for change, it is much harder to take it and MAKE change.
I wish Mr.Michael Walsh every success and indeed every Survivor in achieving what is rightfully theirs.
Perhaps with a large survivor group on board your voices will be heard.
lets forget about those who betrayed survivors . well i for one will not . when i was in dire need of support from those supposedly put in place to help there was none .sick to death of these robbbers .they can go to hell
@ sally mulready 14/02/2011 at 20:05
“The Laundry women and Bethany House people are still awaiting justice, the STF proposals are in a mess. And we just carry on being petty, unkind and attack each other”.
As with every one of the survivor groups you fail, in your kind endeavour, to mention justice for one mother and baby home, namely, the Regina Ceoli Hostel, Nth Brunswick St, Dublin.
I’m so weary of being continuously ignored by survivors.
It demeans everything I stood for in the past outside Dail Eireann.
I spent a part of my life ‘out there’ risking life and limb trying to seek justice for a very individual serious cause and if I’m now in anyway seen to be ‘giving out’ I would consider it, on the contrary, to be an absolute given, (right) that was appropriately and unimaginably justifiably earned.
It is so totally my prerogative, to now, in the aftermath, to be seen to desperately rant and rave.
Albeit politely!
I suffered too much to now be seen to be ‘nice’ by one and all.
Being compliant and ‘nice’ got me absolutely nowhere at all.
I was never acknowledged by most survivor groups in all my time outside Dail Eireann.
There are, though, two prominent survivor group leader exceptions.
Mick Waters and Tom Hayes, who do not live in the Irish jurisdiction were the only ones who recognised my existence.
Thank you both from the bottom of my heart.
Very telling!
I also have Hanora Brennan/Patsy/Olive/Emma to thank for visiting me.
Thank you too.
What a sad indictment indeed on the rest of the groups.
They should be ashamed of themselves.
Nonetheless, it didn’t go unnoticed by Dail insiders.
One such prominent survivor figure claimed that I was only thinking of myself.
What an outrageously ignorant statement to make, when the person had not got one iota as to the historical facts of the case.
The audacity of that survivor, who sat up there in their privileged ivory tower, at the expense of the government, to boot, to talk in such an ignorant manner to a fellow survivor.
I was basically classed as some sort of sick crank or odd person because I decided to take on singlehandedly the Irish government.
I would hazard a guess too that at the time of the campaign, that the rest of the survivor groups were not overly bothered either with the Magdalen laundries or Bethany House.
If they were, indeed, there were not many soundings out there.
It looks like the ML and BH only came into the equation with most survivor groups when all was drawing to a conclusion with the redress.
I can obviously only speculate from my own observations.
The aforementioned institutions could have all been a force to reckon with if we’d stood together.
If those seeking justice just took a stand together we could have fought the system for justice.
It wasn’t to be.
Hindsight is 20/20 vision.
http://tinyurl.com/648y2md
————–
Kindness is the quality of being warmhearted and considerate and humane and sympathetic.
It is the act of forgivingness, the tendency to be kind and forgiving.
People who are kind are liked by everybody.
Kindness is of two types: one shown towards fellow human beings, where to make an effort to understand their problems and then give their resources to solve them.
The everyday kindness of the back roads more than makes up for the acts of greed in the headlines. Charles Kuralt
Kindness can become its own motive.
We are made kind by being kind. -Eric Hoffer.
Survivor groups should have taken on board kindness to ALL survivors as their motto.
What goes round comes round.
http://tinyurl.com/4ss8mr3
————-
@ Marie-Thérèse O’ Loughlin, 14/02/2011 at 00:38 (6 comments up).
‘”to kiss the cheek of judas for thirty pieces of silver.”
Oops, it must have been a Freudian slip.
It should have read to kiss the face of Jesus…
Judas’ kiss of betrayal was a sign to the mob who came to arrest Jesus that he …
Of course those so called group leaders in Dublin want this Statuary Trust Fund they are only thinking of the future huge funding they will continue to recieve ,they already have been given god know’s how many millions >WHAT have they spent all that money on >our moneywhich were child Prisons where children were sentenced as criminals and detained from the age of day’s old to 16 years.It just beggers belief how any government allowed such brutiality against the children of Ireland. BUT THEY DID JUST THAT. MOST SURVIVORS don’t LIVE IN IRELAND BUT LIVE OUT THEIR LIVES IN EXILE,driven out of our own country by The Brutal Regime.
So its from offices in all of ireland. whats next . we abroad are as usual well out of it . Sally why should Michael Walsh suddenly become capable of running things lets be honest its about buisness and money.And all these servises is totally unrealistic.Many of us could do with help now and again but its impossable to take part in so many peoples lives. We are adults. Its the same for us as for anyone else living in a society that has no place for anyone without roots . Helping the chosen few is doing more harm than good to all of us.We should be allowed to get on with our lives .Your pleading for Michael Walsh who has caused such harm to survivers says that you want to believe him but why should we . we has already had his chance. but i am not saying that you are not sincere.
Hi Seanie,
The Michael that you sent a personal message on the Shame of Ireland is the Child of a Survivor and his Membership is a valid one. He has stated to me that he is NOT the Acting Chairperson of the New Right of Place.
His membership does not affect the fact that there is a letter awaiting the ratification of Members of the Shame of Ireland @
http://shameofireland.co.uk/group/actiononsurvivorsgroupsnothingaboutuswithoutus/forum/topics/letter-to-be-ratified-by-the
The Letter is asking the Revenue Commisioners in Ireland investigate where ALL the Money went in reference to the Right of Place and the Aislinn Centre.
The identity of Michael on the Shame of Ireland is less of a worry to me at the Moment than the “Michael Walsh” who purports to Sign this Petition on behalf of the NEW Right of Place?
You have to be a Member of the Shame of Ireland to take part in the Activities of the Shame of Ireland.
Members are drawn from Survivors of the Industrial School, their Families and their Friends.
Recently, I signed the STF petition as an individual, as written by Paddy. I gave my reasons and I said I would encourage women from the Irish Women Survivors Support Network to sign as well.
I identified then, as I have many times before on this site, that I am Chairperson of the Irish Women Survivors Support Network.But it should be quite clear that I signed in my own right and NOT on behalf of the members of the Irish Women Survivors Support Network. It is obvious that people, who sign, do so on their own behalf and not on behalf of an organization or support group. As I understand it Paddy, only individual signatures count.?
My decision to sign was stupidly attacked by M assuming in her ignorance ,that I was signing on behalf of all the members of the Women’s Group. Many of you will know why I am talking about as she has emailed te world –as usual.
I am sick to death of seeing people attacked And criticized. Survivor attacking Survivor. It seems to me Michael Walsh who I have never met
But have spoken to, was damned if he did and damned if he didn’t sign that petition.
I believe that Michael Walsh signed in his own right as a Survivor which he is perfectly entitled to do. His decision to sign is as good as the decisions of any other individual Survivor.
Michael Walsh has to be judged on his own efforts and his own delivery to Survivors ROP.Its not to say that I don’t think as Chair , he is overly ambitious for ROP .His plans to Put an office in every county is highly aspirational and may require too much funding from a dwindling pot. Nor do I believe its needed ten years on.
I also hope that the HSE and the Education Dept and whoever funds the ROP will do a better job of monitoring their expenditure then previously.
At the risk of people writing in this site Getting really mad, I actually think that Michael Walsh should be given a chance. People who do nothing but complain should try getting out there, taking a stand and doing something.
O yes the ROP accounts issues don’t appear to be yet resolved , but I blame the HSE and the other funders who as far as I can see threw money at ROP, failed completely to keep track of their funding. None of the Trustees had any training to manage this funding.
This is not the first time this has happened . The HSE also funded another organization they gave £90000 to run a B&B and never saw how Survivors were treated and cheated. That Project was also severely ignored by the HSE and todate nothing has been done about it.
I am glad and relieved that both Welcome House in Cork and this other place in Dublin are gone –closed down, though the money wasted on both is nothing short of criminal.
I visited ROP twice and on each occasion I found Welcome House bleak, hardly anyone there and as a modern facility for Survivors coming for a break or a short holiday it was a disgrace and insulting. But of course it was considered good enough for Survivors – I say good riddance to both places. We all deserve better.
I have read the recent ROP Newsletter and again Its better then anything produced previously and Is another reason why I feel that Michael as Chair of ROP should be given a chance to start again? Having said that I would expect to see upfront proper democratic elections that return people not just willing but CAPABLE of being Trustees on a Board handling vast sums of money.
So lets Survivor stop attacking Survivor. While we are doing that to each other those who were responsible for our woes remain unchallenged and Have truly escaped justice. The Laundry women and Bethany House people are still awaiting justice, the STF proposals are in a mess. And we just carry on being petty, unkind and attack each other.
Finally, Just to be clear about my intentions re the Petition, so Ms M and others know at our forthcoming meeting of the Irish Women Survivors Support Network on Feb 25th, I will as I said when I signed the petition, be encouraging Women to sign the petition and I will explain why I as an individual signed it.
Sally Mulready
Well you know by now as many others We are not fighting the same battle as them . its about industriel school abuse for many but its about having power for others. because i refused advice about my statementi have lost all contact with the people i was with as a child . this is no accident.The only contact with the leader was a very unfriendly encounter in the redress board. many of the women from G.B have been there also . were thay treated in the same way is something i have thought about.These people are damaged by stardom and have no thoughts about others. its dangerous for all of us . you might already know that i was also sent out to pass an exam. it wasent for us it was for the reputation of the school as we were warned at the time . i would never have stayed in prison by choise but the leader did .All she remembered about me was that she found me clever . i took this as a complement but the shock was terrable
Rob,
I have had conversations with Michael (someone) I do not know his last name. I informed Michael why I choose Paddy Doyle to speak on my behalf as I am out of the loop here in Yuma at present and at home in Canada otherwise. I informed him of my education as a PI. I have not heard back from Michael since. What we want Rob is not to have every Tom Dick & Harry who seek to put themselves in our favour while behind our backs feathering their nests (off our backs) It is a difficult task for you I know, but we must study the subjects and their interest relating to, we the survivors and victims of abuse, by that I mean, who is this Michael ? what cloak does he wear ? is he a Manchester Utd or a Man City supporter because Im sure Paddy was wearing the No 10 shirt on Saturday. In the meantime “Oh men from the fields, come softly within, come softly, thread softly, Oh men from the Fields”.
I told all who I was, where I come from, my opinions and my life story, lets find out who we are talking to for all our sakes.
Seanie
The Michael Walsh who Signed the Petition needs to be verified? As thiss adds a theoretical 1750 Votes to the Petition, that the HSE will accept as it was the OLD Right of Place that was involved in the Birth off the Trust Fund??
All Survivors of the Industrial Schhools are welcome at the Shame of Ireland @http://bit.ly/agjWv0
Survivors have been at loggerheads with each other ever since the beginnings of the commission to inquire into institutional child abuse and the redress board.
They’ll continue to pull each others hair out, if they’re allowed to get away with it, with the incoming government; which looks very much like being the Fine-Gael party, who is purportedly at 38/% according to the recent highly recognised Irish poll.
“The groups were told at a meeting (refer to link) that the congregations had offered additional compensation which they value at €348.51m, on top of the €128m already contributed under the controversial 2002 indemnity deal.
The government also intends to seek over €200m more from the congregations to reach some €680m, or a 50% share, of the €1.36bn cost of the indemnity deal.”
Excepting Paddy Doyle’s online accountability of course, did_ALL_ groups pass on minutes of meetings held with An Taoiseach, Brian Cowen and his ministers etc, either in written or vis-a-vis verbal and aural format to_ALL of their members?
I’m just wondering – as it was not the case with extensive meetings that were held at the instigation of the RIRB/CICA and thereafter.
Countless survivors, from my standpoint, anyway, over the years were literally walked over and seen as totally inconsequential; or either too disturbed to grasp the reality of what was going on with the government.
It is incomprehensible the way that we were treated by those who grew up with us in the institutions.
I find it indecipherably difficult to get my head around the fact that we were trampled upon and were offered up as sacrificial lambs by those who rather choose instead to kiss the cheek of judas for thirty pieces of silver.
We were never mostly consulted about our affairs from day one.
Survivors of our ilk were only ever handy to have around when it came to pushing the institutional survivor agenda with the government.
It was imperative for the powers that be to see how traumatised survivors were.
We were the ideal faces of institutional abuse when it paid for us to be so.
Nonetheless, behind the scenes we were spat and trodden on by certain nastier elements that were mollycoddled and protected by some groups.
All under the guise of saving survivor face.
The status quo had to exist at all cost and any one who was outside the camp were hammered and nailed.
The outgoing government used some of the groups to claw money from the religious societies and congregations for itself and not for survivors of institutions.
Just in the same way that some groups used the most vulnerable survivors to get money from the government for their own selfish needs mostly.
The La La syndrome should be done away with forever.
It’s ironic that a lot of survivors manning some survivor groups were also mostly the very same survivors who were selected by the religious to be educated in their respective institutions?
Just an observation?!
Man’s power of choice enables him to think like an angel or a devil, a king or slave.
Whatever he chooses mind will create and manifest [Frederick Bailes]. Mastering others is strength.
Mastering yourself is true power.
Education is power.
http://tinyurl.com/5wmhw66
All our names belong to us . So the groups can confirm with whom they have contact. We have been in this situation a long time now non of the ones i have met have any use now for confidentiality. All our closest friends and family know now.so give us back our names and we can decide for ourselves. a group of over a certain number is unmanagable as we have already seen because YOU WROTE A NAME 3 OR 4 YEARS AGO DOES NOT MEAN THAT ITS A PERMANENT PRESENCE IN ANY WAY
I see Mr Michael Walsh , Chairman of Right Of Place, has signed the Petition above . And it also include’s his 1750 ( new?) member’s!
I would like very much to know where exactly did this magic increase in membership come from? As recently as just before last Christmas, the reported membership was 1500, if one could beleive even that!
Mr Walsh, would it be fair to ask this question, are these genuine member’s you refer to? are they all actually still alive? Are some of these alleged member’s in fact just name’s that were hijacked from the old ROP? Is it not a fact that many member’s you claim to represent, are no longer member’s, many have passed on, many requested to have their name’s removed from your data base, but how do we know this was ever done.?
Jimmy
very good angry your some comedian ! all waters under the bridge now ( not )
Hello angry ‘ i read your last comment. Excuse me but i think you are missing the point . all this is not about comparing brain sizes. in fact its got nothing to do with that . the fact that when you talk of your dependecy towards people like sally well she does not need to be covered by the irish government to do good around her. nor does anyone . people such as paddy doyle heard all of us including the ones left in limbo by these group leaders. And he gave us a voice. i dont know what size his brain is but throw out your thimble. its no use to anyone .
Bruce Arnold’s Irish Independent synopsis here sums up, for me anyway, the serious difficulties apropos past funding issues. The operative word, REGULATION.
Our laws still allow for the protection of child abusers
Saturday March 13 2010
THE Irish State has connived in the concealment of abuse and has consistently failed to regulate state institutions and the church.
Historically, it has done so on a massive scale in respect of industrial school abuse and has allowed a climate of uncontrolled abuse to prevail within diocesan systems.
Although substantial sums have been distributed to them without proper supervision, accounting for that money has not been required, nor have the internal justifications for receiving it been required from representative organisations.
http://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/our-laws-still-allow-for-the-protection-of-child-abusers-2098237.html
We must now create our own Tahrir Square and stay there untill the listening begins and suceed we shall as the Egyptian people have shown today.A change is coming to Ireland its just that the gombeens of the political class don’t know about it yet. The abolition of the Trust Fund is just one part of the struggle to renew Ireland.We are not takeing it any more, we allso have dignity.
We now know what it feels like to be standing in Tahrir Square in Cairo. They and we are met by the sane deafness.
Thimble for sale, useful for keeping your brain in.
Marie-Thérèse O’ Loughlin.
All survivors of institutions should have been entitled over the years to have had the luxury of encountering contemporaries from their respective institutions.
Insofar as the survivors in question would have wanted to have made themselves publicly known to their ex-fellow inmates.
The government after all has given massive amounts of funding to some groups to set up centres of healing (as well as education).
Some of the group leaders in this respect, I would surmise, anyway, may have used the healing centres for mostly their own self-serving needs and those belonging to the close-knit inner circles.
It would appear that way to me.
Obviously I can only speculate without having concrete evidence.
The survivor, elitists, who I know for sure, have entertained survivors from all over the world, have to my knowledge, been very selective in who the latter would have encountered when they came to Ireland.
I do not remember even one single incident of being asked by any group leader of whether or not I would I like to meet a survivor of Goldenbridge from abroad.
In my estimation, the leaders have caused untold further damage to survivors like me who would have dearly loved to have met survivors who were in Goldenbridge at the same time as my incarceration period.
Healing of this important kind, in this sense, has been totally denied to innumerable survivors like me who would have benefitted enormously in coming to terms with the excruciatingly painful past.
I have personal experience of being completely shut out when survivors of Goldenbridge came to Ireland from afar.
It was very painful to hear from others that my contemporaries had all partied together with the very selective Goldenbridge group.
To date I’ve not encountered one Goldenbridge survivor with the help of any survivor group.
It is such a sad indictment from a healing perspective and the very ethos of the founding of the survivor groups.
This privilege is only mostly afforded those who are sitting at the helm of the so-called healing centres at the expense of the government and the religious.
(I am aware that survivors also meet outside the survivor centres but that does not enter the equation here).
The incoming government should look after the most marginalised survivors who have been frozen out by those who claim to have the inerest of all survivors at heart.
There should be expert, independent caring services in place, solely for survivors who feel they are On the Outside Looking in.
Monies should trickle down to the expert groups to help the marginalised survivors who do not feel safe attending mainstream government funded survivor groups.
Bertie Ahern looked to the same survivor groups all the time and ignored the marginalised who were right under his nose.
He saw the survivor groups as being representatives of ALL survivors.
Or – if he didn’t, he did not want to know at all.
The same was applicable with the media.
It is so far from the real truth.
“You can bend it and twist it… You can misuse and abuse it… But even God cannot change the Truth.” Michael Levy.
Mick waters dident run avoca by himself there was also mrs waters and thier family all getting very good wages thanks to our money thay got thier share
Mick Waters used to run AVOCA HOUSE what has happened to that and the funding.Also he has a website called Ultimated Disposal where all you read is newspaper clippings,it was supposed to be for survivors comments.
somebody tell me why the opposition party in Ireland never informed its people of the reckless way the party in power were allowing the country to fail in such a big way ?? and yet the parties are looking for your vote and trust in the coming election ! i dont trust any of them the brown envelope merchants !!!
angry ask your pal mick waters what he did with all his funds
TO ALL VICTIMS, SUPPORTERS AND ALL DECENT IRISH FOLKS:
THIS IS THE TIME TO MAKE OUR VOICES HEARD AND OUR VOTES COUNT. WITH THE ELECTIONS ONLY DAYS AWAY, I URGE YOU TO SIGN THIS PETITION, AND TO FOLLOW THE INSTRUCTIONS AS SET OUT ABOVE:
WHEN YOU HAVE GONE TO THE LINK AND SIGNED THE PETITION, YOU MUST then <> YOUR SIGNATURE, BY <> WHICH WILL BE SENT TO YOU PERSONALLY (FROM THE PETITION WEBSITE).
IT WOULD SEEM THAT MANY WHO HAVE SIGNED, DO NOT FIND THEIR NAME ON THE LIST. THIS IS BECAUSE YOU HAVE NOT VALIDATED YOUR REQUEST.
ONE FOR ALL – ALL FOR ONE.
BETTER TO HAVE EVERYBODY MARCH UNDER THE ONE FLAG, AND PRESENT <> PETITION.
I WILL SAY IT ONCE MORE, FOR WHAT IT’S WORTH, AND I WILL <> ON THAT:
WHEN A COUNTRY, A WHOLE PEOPLE, COMMITS, OR OTHERWISE ALLOW TO BE COMMITTED, THE ABOMINABLE CRIMES WE NOW HAVE PROOF OF, IE THE RAPING – MAIMING – ABUSING – AND DESTROYING OF CHILDREN, AND FURTHERMORE TOLERATES BY ITS INACTION, THE FREE RAMBLING OF ITS CRIMINALS, PERPETRATORS, PAEDOPHILES AND MORAL JUDGES (SUCH AS THE CATHOLIC CHURCH AND THE IRISH GOVERNMENT – SOON TO BE BEATIFIED OR RETIRED WITH ACCOUNTS AND POCKETS OVERFLOWING WITH MONEY), WHEN A SOCIETY IS SO WARPED AND HELL-BENT ON IGNORING THE FACTS AND THE TRUTH….. IN SUCH A SOCIETY NOTHING – NOTHING – NOTHING CAN BE RIGHT, THRIVE AND SURVIVE. I DON’T THINK FURTHER PROOF IS REQUIRED TODAY, WHEN WE ARE BANKRUPT AND ON OUR KNEES. NOT EVEN AWAKE ENOUGH TO BE BEGGING FOR MERCY….
THE INITIAL FACILITATING OF THESE CRIMES AGAINST CHILDREN, AND THE SUBSEQUENT DENIAL OF THE MONSTROSITIES EXPOSED AND DENOUNCED, ARE THE SINGLE ROOT CAUSE OF <>. ALL OF THEM.
ON YOUR SIDE.
Raymond
Marie-Thérèse O’ Loughlin,
There are countless voiceless survivors’ of institutional child abuse out there who have been frozen out from the very outset; not only by the government, but, also, by some prominent survivors’ groups.
The latter have been financially propped up for years by the Fianna Fail government; millions of Euro have gone in their direction; and indeed, all under the auspices of helping those who were in institutions.
Nonetheless, those survivors’ who decided to remain individual by expressing their own serious concerns were seen as oddities and thus subsequently shunned and squeezed out.
Not being in receipt of any of the many perks, including education.
It was exactly the same scenario in the institutions, where the pets, the bane of our lives, were given everything while the untermenchen were always on the outside looking in.
The Labour Party is all too cognizant of the way some survivors were’/are treated; who were not invited to Christmas parties, who were not invited to dine with the president at Áras an Uachtaráin who were not in receipt of outings, etc, etc etc.
I’m talking here about the principles as opposed to the perks, per se.
(As I know only too well, I think, that there are some of you who wouldn’t dream of wanting to be entertained by a right wing conservative Catholic, who would be seen as the very symbolism of a church who had ill-treated defenceless children in the past) – and not to mention having to sing sweet songs to boot.
Like saying – what a wonderful world it is for us survivors’, aren’t we so blessed with all that the government has done for us, blah, blah, blah.
Codswallop!
A political media stunt to show to the world how wonderful Bertie was to Ireland’s bloody bedraggled begotten bairns of the past at the hands of the religious.
There was no hidden agenda at least with the parties children had in their respective institutions. That is – on the part of the party-hosts.
They never learn.
I personally was enraged at not being invited, as I would have rather endeared myself to the music of the fine line -up of celebrities (specifically, Mary Black, my favourite) who were on offer for the afternoon.
Well, it’s a long road that has no turning.
Bertie does not give a damn anymore, as he made it quite succinctly clear the other day to the Irish people.
So where to now for the survivor groups who compounded the abuse and who seemingly mostly lapped up all the government/religious goodies?
Are they going to try to do the same with the incoming party/parties in making sure they get their own way?
Methinks – they might be just wasting their time.
I, for one, shan’t be shedding a tear for the bleeding Bertie sweethearts, who shamefully turned their backs on survivors throughout the *golden* years.
They should be holding their heads down in sorrow for the further pain and damage they inflicted on some their fellow survivors.
I wont deny that they haven’t done good; they have done gargantuan work; but, what a price some of us survivors’ had to pay.
Life should have moved on after the genuflection cow-towing ceremony,
Period.
It should have expanded to incorporate other survivors’, who should have been treated just as valuably as the chief instigators.
One can’t forever be beholden to them, as they’ve already been showered with accolades and trophies galore.
Notwithstanding, too, the knee-bending, guru-like, adulation from fellow survivors’ as well as special cultic media attention befitting for Irish Celtic celebrity queens.
Mind you, i’ve an aversion to all this pseudo Irish celebrity thing, it doesn’t suit the psyche.
The Statutory Funding should be the business of all survivors of institutions and not only the same bunch who forever forcefully put themselves to the front.
The Fianna Gael Party, the Labour Party and the Sinn Fein Party should be on the side of those who were left outside the fold.
They should listen intently to what they have to say.
I speak here on behalf of survivors who do not attend groups, who are flushed out by other survivor groups when they attend outside meetings, who are continually treated coldly.
There are plenty of idle houses all over the country, the government could possibly plough some of the statutory funding and interest into some of these houses and offer them at a reasonable rate or whatever, to survivors’ of institutions who feel alienated, not only from survivor groups, but from the country of their forebears, of which they fled because of the traumatic memories of their lives in institutions.
Also to those who are homeless.
The funding should be shared equally this time around by the incoming government.
It should start afresh and see that there is inclusiveness where the statutory funding is concerned.
It behoves them to not act like the last decrepit self-serving government.
To add here, we don’t hang around the Dail just because we want to get our mug-shots on the T.V.
We hang about there because we want justice, equality and fairness for survivors’, individually and collectively.
Cheery picking must end.
The frozen must be given blankets and made to feel warm.
I say… all you voiceless survivors’ out there, rise up and shout from the rooftops, let yourselves be heard, lest they forget you all exist.
Remember consultation must be had with ALL survivors’, not just the chosen few who seem to foist themselves on the powers that be because they know they have the advantage of group dynamics on their side.
Group-think rules, don’t forget, but if there are enough individual scarabs scratching away at the elephant, the latter will finally be forced to bend its knees in humility and listen.
Debate and divergence of views can only enrich our history and culture.
Democracy opens new vistas and opportunities.
We should use the opportunities it offers to correct past mistakes not to blunder anew.
Ibrahim Babangida
Penultimately:
Shunning is an act of social rejection the deliberate avoiding association with, and habitually keeping away from, an individual or group.
It is a sanction against association, often associated with religious groups and other tightly knit organisations and communities.
People classified as “sinners” or “traitors” and other people who defy or who fail to comply with the standards established by the shunning group(s).
Conclusion:
I ultimately plead with the incoming government to pay heed to the petitioners and to treat same on their own individualistic merit.
For every one voice deliberating their point here there are thousands more out there who have not got the written/verbal ability to convey their opinions concerning the statutory funding and all matters pertaining to the legacy of child institutional abuse.
Marie-Thérèse O’ Loughlin.
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have you made it yet geraldine????
Hi Geraldine! Don’t Stress Pet!
Your name appears above the Comments??
You have signed the Petition.
I only mentioned this because I don’t want you to Worry!
I know how Passionately you feel about this!!
Tell Your Friends and Family Too!
They have supported you in your time of need and been affeted by this!
They are entitled to Speak for YOU! TOO!
Geraldine. If you read the instructions given at the part of the website saying how to deal with the petition you will find a full explanation there. I hope it helps. Paddy.
sorry paddy ,I am not doing very well, I am trying to sign the petition,a bit useless at the computer
The Petition referred to can be found here http://www.paddydoyle.com/statutory-fund-petition/ Please read the instructions carefully before signing it. Paddy
The Petition referred to can be found here http://www.paddydoyle.com/statutory-fund-petition/ Please read the instructions carefully before signing it. Many people are registering but because they haven’t followed the instructions as give. If you want you’re name registered as being opposed to the Statutory Fund, then it is important to read the note I’ve placed before the petition signing section. Paddy.
I have NEVER given my permission to any so called group’s or services for survivors ,I have not used nor had any help or feedback nor indeed have contact with any of them. my name should NOT be on anyone’s list >EXCEPT PADDY DOYLE’s No To The Statuary Trust Fund, DON’T WANT IT.
I Totally give my surport to this petition. Shame on the Irish Government that we survivors have been forced into this in order that we recieve JUSTICE for the suffering and Loss of Childhood, Sibling’s, Identity, Root’s,Health, many lost their live’s ,many left badly damaged ,we all suffer life long Ill Health BECAUSE we were made to suffer both Psysically, Mentally by the SADISTIC child hating money-grubbing Wicked Monsters.Paddy thank you for being my Representative, to speak on my behalf.
THE BRITISH SHAME SCANDAL OF MARGARET HUMPHREYS CBE BY JIM LOACH CALLED ORANGES AND SUNSHINE IS BEING SHOWN IN GLASGOW OF SCOTLAND ON 26 FEB 2011.
THE SCOTTISH MEDIA IS INTERESTING IN MY STOLEN ABUSE VICTIMS PHOT’S OF SCOTTISH BANISHED STOLEN CHILDREN IN A DR BARNARDO’S CHILD MIGRANT SLAVE BROTHEL CONCENTRATION PRISON CAMP FOR 80 DISABLE UNWANTED CHILD MIGRANTS FROM 1960s TO 1970s.
Like many , I have no time for this “trust fund”, in its present format. The ONLY benefactors of this “trust fund” would be these so called “group leaders” and their lackeys, constant cash flow on tap, regular “wages”, etc, etc, all the benefits these con men and con women have been heartily enjoying for some years now.
In one of Paddy`s postings he states that he was informed that its “”A TRUST FUND OR NOTHING”. I assume (hopefully) that this remark came from a “politican”. Such a remark is indicative of MUCK SAVAGE “politics”, mumpers with no conception of democracy, nor understanding of their subject, hard-liners who had and HAVE NO qualms about sticking their fingers up to thousands of children who suffered in the CHILD BROTHELS of Ireland , condoned and sanctioned by such MUCK SAVAGE antics of the past, and indeed STILL ALIVE today, as can be witnessed on a daily basis in the DAIL. Such MUCK SAVAGE ignorance of the LEGITIMATE concerns in regard to this “trust fund” displayed by the institutionally abused can be likened to the present situation in Egypt. THATS WHAT EVOLVES WHEN “POLITICANS” FAIL TO LISTEN.
There are many questions this “trust fund” raises, not least the mechanics by which it would function. It CANNOT be a cap-in-hand procedure heaping insult to injury upon the already vulnerable. Everything I have read about this “trust fund” is merely a PILE`A PANTS, a placebo to buy time, to generate widespread confusion while the faceless pen pushers and men in grey suits push through damaging and useless legislation which can only result in FURTHER ABUSE.
The question of “sharing” out the money being donated by the religious equally among the institutionally abused is, in my opinion also as bad as this proposed “trust fund”. Many , many people who found themselves at the arse end of the redress procedure were marginalised by “average” awards being introduced, a “tired” redress board, no longer interested in ascertaining ANY FURTHER NEED to listen to or hear HORROR STORIES OF ABUSE, had lost its way, and as a consequence MANY people were SHAFTED. This has been evidenced by the FACT that in many cases the representing solicitors were receiving MORE THAN THE VICTIM.
If these religious donations ARE to be given for “charitable” redress, would it not be the right and justful thing to introduce a minimum ceiling for EVERYBODY who received a pittance, or paltry award to be brought up to a level of at least FIFTY THOUSAND EURO`S. I hear stories of people being offered five, ten, or fifteen thousand euros, whereas my personal opinion, and its only my opinion, residence in ANY of these hell holes SHOULD MERIT A STARTING POINT OF AT LEAST FIFTY THOUSAND EUROS, while the redress legislators were adamant in introducing a MAXIMUM, they never introduced a MINIMUM!!!!!!!
In order for a “trust fund” to work to the benefit of EVERYBODY, its imperative that the redress board, education department, are taken out of the equation. Its time for the same old, same old TO GO, its the redress board and education department who are keeping these so called “group leaders” to the fore, the divide and conquer policy being the order of the day, the message MUST surely have got back to these departments that NO SURVIVORS WANT ANYTHING TO DO WITH THESE SO CALLED “group leaders”. The retention of these so called “group leaders” remains a viable option for these departments to IGNORE the PROPER setting up of a TRUST FUND. The State needs to provide a DEDICATED LEGAL TEAM for the sole benefit of survivors, professional financial experts, skilled negotiators, the IMMEDIATE DISBANDING of these so called “group leaders”.
We have (hopefully) a new government in the offing , but NO DOUBT we will be saddled with the usual “OH, SURE NOW, HE`S A GREAT MAN, WAS`NT HE EDUCATED BY THE CHRISTIAN BROTHERS”, we need to get a LEADER who KNOWS HOW TO BEND A MITRE, HOW TO PULL IT DOWN OVER THE EARS AND EYES OF THOSE RESPONSIBLE FOR SO MUCH OF IRELAND’S ILL`S.
The FIRST duty of this new leader should be to restore this TWO HUNDRED MILLION EUROS STOLEN FROM SURVIVORS BY THE FIANNA FAILure`s ON THE PRETEXT OF BUILDING A NEW HOSPITAL. The building of new hospitals remains the RESPONSIBILITY OF THE STATE, NOT THE INSTITUTIONALLY ABUSED.
The NEXT duty of this New Leader should be to the TAX PAYER, to reinstate into public coffers the ONE BILLION PLUS DEPLETION ON THE UNSUSPECTING TAX PAYER INSTIGATED BY MICHAEL WOODS TO “”SOFTEN”” THE BLOW ON THE RELIGIOUS FOR THEIR CRIMES AGAINST CHILDREN.
The next duty of this New Leader should be to visit the IRISH CENTRE here in London, and WATCH REAL PEOPLE AT WORK AS THEY HELP AND SUPPORT THE DISENFRANCHISED IRISH, MANY, SO MANY OF THEM FROM THE INSTITUTIONS. FOR ME, THESE PEOPLE ARE THE REAL HEROE`S. THESE FIANNA FAILures TREAT THESE PEOPLE WITH CONTEMPT, A GRAND TOTAL OF SIX THOUSAND EUROS PER YEAR FOR FUNDING, ITS A DISGRACE.
Maybe we SHOULD deal with the congreations as oppposed to the State, as what the State offers consists of CONTINUAL FUNDING FOR THE SO CALLED “group leaders” thereby maintaining the status quo, ie, MORE PAIN, MORE ABUSE, MORE LIES, MORE TREACHERY, trust fund, or personal payment, DOES IT REALLY MATTER.??? THE HURT NEVER GOES AWAY.
I have no doubt that various group leader’s view the posting’s and information that are displayed here on this site, much thank’s to Paddy.
It would be great that maybe these same people would be seen by all survivor’s, to support this petition, and give their vote’s, and show to survivor’s that they are doing their bit for the survivor’s, THAT,THEY ALL CLAIM TO REPRESENT!
Jimmy
NO to the Statuary Trust Fund, Survivors of Industrial child prisons Are owed our rightful compansation that must be paid to each survivor sepretatly to put into our own bank accounts without interfernce from ANYONE Who was it who attended secret meetings with Mary Coughlan about The Statuary Trust Fund??????????WE HAVE NEVER BEEN INFORMED ABOUT ANY MEETINGS OR OTHERWISE, Never HAD ANY ADVICE NOR HELP FROM ANY OF THOSE SO CALLED OVERFUNDED SERVICES they are just a big con.And NO I don’t need nor want an education I have attended the best university of life and taught myself .that’s all the education I need. Those pushing for this Statuary Trust Fund really are Evil Cruel,Greedy, Sadistic,Bullies . we survivors >DONT WANT IT.
Phil and everyone!
There is a list of petitions thatt you may be interested in Signing???
They can be found at the “Home Page” of http://bit.ly/agjWv0
You do not have to be a member to access these!!
If you Knock YOU will be let in!!
Once your internet is back up and running you are of course welcome to sign Leslie. Paddy.
dear Paddy,
thank goodness we have you on our side, we don’t want anymore help from those only interested in helping themselves. As we’re not getting any younger these monies should be handed over now.
still trying to sign your petition – my sister was unable to sign for me.
i want my views heard!!
please note my sister tried to sign on my behalf as my internet was down, I would request that you allow me to sign .
I was in Artane for six years from 1953 to 1959 and wany my voice heard.
Les.
CLICKED ON IT TODAY AND IT WAS SORTED. JIMMY
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TO OTHER FOLK HERE.
IT IS IMPORTANT THAT AFTER YOU SUBMIT THE SIGN IN VOTE, YOU MUST CLICK ON THE LINK IN THE RETURN EMAIL, THAT YOU GET, IN ORDER TO COMPLETE THE VOTE. SEEM’S THAT MANY ARE NOT DOING THAT.
HI SEANIE, MANAGED TO GET THE VOTE DONE FOR PJ,THANKS TO ADVICE FROM PADDY. I USED ANOTHER EMAIL ADDRESS, WHICH I USE SOMETIME’S, BUT FORGOT THAT IT ALSO HAS IT’S OWN INBOX, SO
Im a Survivior from the nazi priest F Sean Fortune 1979 Belfast St Augustines…Nazareth lodge..Gorey his so called home town..Can go into detail as ive had counciling from nexus and meds from my Dr. and head of mental health dept Co.down..I was hunted by demons for most of my adult life..Confided with local parish priests but firewall went up..
Hi Paddy,
Jimmy will tell you that maybe Patrick does not have a computer, anyone else who is with a computer and have not a vote could sign for him Im sure ?.
Regards
Seanie.
Hello all .this is an occasion to be heard so lets stop the silent screaming and VOTE
I will make an exception this time Jimmy and try it. As I’ve already signed myself, I doubt it will work. I stress again – I’m making an exception on this occasion as you’re having difficulty. Paddy. What I do need is an email address for your friend. Paddy.
Not to worry Paddy, managed to do it myself, using another email address i have , GOOD LUCK
Jimmy
Paddy, just tried to put my friend’s name on the vote, but it is rejecting it because i have also voted in my name.
His Name is Patrick Tobin, ex Glin, and now resides in west sussex. Can you add his vote? Jimmy
Thanks for your reply Paddy, yes my friend is an ex puple of Glin and certainly qualify’s. What bothers me is , just how many like him are scattered throughout the world, who cant read or write, and are in the dark as regards our concern.s etc. jIMMY
Paddy,thank you for giving us this great opportunity.
Yes you can as long as the pal is genuine. Paddy
I appeal to all of our brothers and sisters to rally to the side of Paddy Doyle and his site by signing the petition against any fund. If we come together then we are a force to reckon with. We can avert a disaster by putting Paddy Doyle to the fore as our spokesperson in dealings with relevant authorities regarding reparation monies which the religious want to be given to their victims. No matter what happens it has been an honour to have knowm you Paddy albeit through your internationally known site. In my country we have a name for people like Paddy Doyle “Hedersman” which means “Man Of Honour” something rare in Ireland to day.
Dear Government,beginning to listen is difficult especially when you have been deaf for so long. The country is in a dark place put there by people who cultivated deafness to a fine art.The winds of change are sweeping around the world. There is no future for the deaf and blind. Here is a chance for the Irish State to change by listening and by its deeds point the way forward. The victims do not want a statutory fund. We are capable of handling our lives and have been to hell and back and are still standing and breathing. Your lack of respect for the wishes of victims of clerical atrocities is mirrored by your mismanagement of the nations economy with serfdom to the IMF for generations to come as a result. Do something different and listen to us.
Paddy , can i vote on the above petition on behalf of a pal here, he does not have a pc. jimmy
hi paddy, the statutory fund is an insult to all the victims the criminals in the catholic church have being let of the hook again,bye the Irish government who are them self involved in the placement of children in there care, where dose is say that the abusers can dictate where compensation is to be given and to who,if this go through it is an attempt to make beggars of us all as well as victims shame on them.vote now and vote for paddy there is not much time left
Behind or Beside you all the way!
Let me know if I can help in ANY way?
Thanks for the support Rob. It’s my belief that what needs to happen now is that all those opposed to the Statutory Fund come together under one banner so to speak and all names be forward to ALL those candidates seeking to be elected to Government. This may well be the last chance to have changes made to the Statutory Fund before it is as was put to me “It’s a Statutory Fund or it’s Nothing”. Paddy.
Hi Paddy as you know I have been promoting a Petition to STOP the Statutory Fund which is still active at http://bit.ly/9hjMlC which has 327 signatures on it. THANK YOU for supporting that and an even bigger THANK YOU for bringing this matter to your readership!
I hope that those who for whatever reason thought that they could not support the petition I Sponsored feel comfortable in Signing this!
I would also like to take the opportunity to let all Survivors of the Irish Industrial Schools they are welcome at the Shame of Ireland http://bit.ly/agjWv0
It is a private site and only the “Home Page” is visible to Non Members, offering a safe no judgemental place for Survivors to Meet Up, Make Friends and make changes about the issues raised on your site.
I WILL BE VIGOROUSLY PROMOTING THIS PETITION!
You friend Rob
Great to have the opportunity to sign this